Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Astronauts Prepare for Risky Return to Earth; Airlines Hike Prices Due to Costs of Iran War; Melania Trump Blasts Lies Linking Her to Epstein. Acting ICE Director Rips Critics For Demonizing Agents. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 09, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, the Artemis II astronauts are preparing for one of the most dangerous parts of their mission, reentering the Earth's atmosphere. The spacecraft will travel up to 25,000 miles per hour and experience temperatures half as hot as the sun. What are the risks and how is NASA prepared? We'll discuss with a former astronaut.

Plus, a surprise statement from First Lady Melania Trump today, going in front of the cameras to slam what she calls lies linking her to dead pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein. Mrs. Trump also calling on Congress to hold a hearing where Epstein's survivors can testify. I'll get a reaction from an Epstein survivor in just moments.

Also, the summer travel season, it's quickly approaching. Normal kids knows this and that family trip could cost you a lot more this year, from rising ticket prices and baggage fees. We're digging into how airlines are trying to offset the higher fuel prices through the war with Iran.

And it's time to say farewell to one of the funniest shows on T.V. The final seasons of Hacks premieres tonight, and the show's dynamic duo is sitting down with CNN ahead of their curtain call to share what you can expect and what they will miss most about the show,

The Lead tonight, Artemis II is gearing up for its risky return to Earth. You're looking at live images from inside the Orion spacecraft in nearly 24 hours. It will take on extreme heat as it travels up to 25,000 miles per hour. Their safe return largely depends on the heat shield located at the bottom of the spacecraft.

The concern, the heat shield has a flaw and NASA is aware and identically designed heat shield on the 2022 uncrewed test flight called Artemis I returned damaged, pockmarked with divots and cracks. But NASA is confident it has the problem under control. We start off with CNN's Ed Lavandera, who is live at Johnson Space Center in Houston, where Mission Control is located. And, Ed, just walk people through. What's NASA expecting as we kind of head into this final critical stage?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, we are 24 hours, almost 24 hours away from the Artemis II crew returning back to earth. And, obviously, all of the teams here on the ground at Johnson Space Center. And you can see the view from the Orion capsule, the outside looking back toward the moon as it continues to get smaller and smaller, that capsule gaining speed as it's coming toward the Earth's atmosphere. Take a live look inside the capsule. You really get a sense of what the crew is really undergoing right now.

And they are going through the final preparations, getting everything ready to get back into Earth's atmosphere in the coming day. Over the course of the next day, they'll reconfigure the inside of that cabin so that their seats and their suits are all on properly.

But there is a great deal of concern about this heat shield. There has been a small group of heat shield experts led by a former astronaut who voiced concern about this, but NASA officials insist they've done all the analysis, they've done all the testing. The astronauts themselves have signed off on this plan before they launched, and they feel confident it will go well. But there are still nerves here at Johnson Space Center.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF RADIGAN, ARTEMIS II LEAD FLIGHT DIRECTOR: It's 13 minutes of things that have to go right, is the way I think about it. You know, I have a whole checklist in my head that we, you know, were going through of all the things that have to happen. You know, the forward bay cover has to come off. The drogues have to come out, the main chutes have to deploy. The reefing systems have to cut. And we have to get the touchdown angle alignment correct and then hit the water correctly.

AMIT KSHATRIYA, NASA ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR: It's impossible to say you don't have irrational fears left, right, but I would tell you I don't have any rational fears about what's going to happen. We've done the work we need to, and we, you know, have full confidence in the team recovery team, the flight control team, analysis and the work we did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Phil, if you take a look at the picture from Artemis I and what that heat shield looked like after it went through the Earth's atmosphere, you can see just the strain and the test that these capsules are put under as they go through these extreme conditions.

So, this will be a very tense moment, 13 minutes. There will be six minutes, Phil, where that crew is in blackout. So, you can imagine the intensity in that Mission Control. And we know that family members will be in the viewing area behind mission control watching this moment unfold, waiting to hear their voices come back on the communication system once they come through the Earth's atmosphere.

So, this is happening just a little over 24 hours from now. Phil?

MATTINGLY: The entire country will be watching and waiting as well.

Ed Lavandera at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, thanks so much.

Well, coming home from the moon means extreme speed and that blistering heat.

[18:05:03]

CNN's Tom Foreman is here to walk us through exactly how the heat shield works. Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As Orion comes back into Earth's atmosphere, there may be no other part of this that is more important than the heat shield on the bottom of the space capsule here. Why is that so important? Because this is coming in at 25,000 miles per hour. That means there's going to be a tremendous buildup of heat on the bottom of the craft, about 5,000 degrees, half the temperature of the surface of the sun.

Now, this is an ablative shield. What does that mean? That means it is supposed to erode off against all of that intense heat. But in the Artemis I mission, one of the things they noticed was that it was not eroding so evenly, that's it, right over there. And that raised some safety concerns. So, what they did was reconfigure the exact way that they're going to bring this back, thinking that that might avoid that problem again, or at least mitigate it and allow the craft to slow down, slowly pop its 11 different parachutes and doing so, get to a speed where it can safely splash down in the ocean with the four astronauts aboard.

MATTINGLY: Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

I want to bring in former NASA Astronaut, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Terry Virts. Terry, I really appreciate your time.

You know, NASA says the Artemis II reentry trajectory has been modified with the goal of avoiding the conditions that we've been talking about, the ones that caused Artemis I's heat shield to crack. Despite that, do you have concerns about the unknown risks here related to the heat shield?

TOM VIRTS, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: You know, there's always a concern when you're landing, but I feel confident in this. I have a friend who -- a fellow astronaut who was part of that investigation team. He dove into the details. He's a highly trained engineer, and he looked at it and he was comfortable with it.

So, on the first unmanned test a few years ago, the capsule came back at a very low angle and it kind of skipped off the atmosphere and it's spent a long time in that high speed, high heat period. And what they're doing now is they're coming back steeper. So, it'll be a quicker descent into the Earth's atmosphere. The heating will actually get a little bit hotter, but it'll last for less amount of time. And they think that shorter time will be better for the heat shield. And then in the future, for future heat shields, they're going to redesign it.

But, you know, I'll tell a quick story. When I came back on the Soyuz, my crewmate, Scott Kelly, he had done it before and the only time I had landed was on a space shuttle and he said, hey, you're going to think you're going to die because it's such a crazy ride. But don't worry you're not. And I'm glad he told me that because we were tumbling and it was such a crazy ride when we hit the atmosphere. And I remember thinking, I'm glad Scott told me that, or I would've thought.

So, these guys were in for quite an amazing return to Earth tomorrow, and I'm excited about it. It'll be great to hear their stories first person as the whole world's been watching them in that small capsule for the last ten days.

MATTINGLY: Can I follow up on that just because you know, there's so much -- there are so many things that a normal person just can't understand about what folks like yourself have done, and I am very self-aware of that fact. But the experience that you're describing with the warning you were given, what is that? Like you feel like you're going to die. That seems a little stressful and intense. Try and explain that to people.

VIRTS: So, there was a couple things. First of all, when the Soyuz comes back, the way the parachutes came out, it just -- it felt like the capsule was tumbling for several minutes. It tumbled a lot. And no one's ever ridden in an Orion capsule. So, these guys will literally be the first ones to say what it's like to experience that. But it was the amount of tumbling and the length of time that I was not -- in the space shuttle, it didn't tumble. It was kind of a gentle, smooth, you know, 1.5 G reentry.

The other thing about the Soyuz, when you're in space, you look back at Earth, you can see it moving, but it's so far away even though you're going -- we were going 17,000 miles an hour, these guys will be going 25,000. It doesn't feel like you're going that fast because it's so far away. But as we came back in the Soyuz, we were pretty close to Earth over Africa. And I looked out the window and I finally, for the first time, saw what 17,000 miles an hour looked like.

So, it was a sense of tumbling in the capsule when the drogue parachute started to come out and also looking out the window and going, man, we are moving really fast. I'm not sure if the Orion capsule will be in the right orientation that they'll be able to look out the window. But if they do, they're going to see what 25,000 miles an hour looks like, which will be pretty cool.

MATTINGLY: The heat -- I mean, a lot of people -- like almost half as hot as the sun. Do they feel that?

VIRTS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Did you feel that? VIRTS: So, on my first flight, I was the space shuttle pilot, and it was like -- the shuttle cockpit's like an airliner cockpit. So, I had some big windows.

[18:10:01]

So, I actually took my glove off. As you're coming back, you see this orange and pink fireball. It was basically exploding over the wind. It was like being in the club with a strobe light going off inside the cockpit. It was nighttime. It was very surreal. And so I actually put my finger up and felt the window. I was curious if I could feel this multi-thousand degree heat and I couldn't.

Now, it's not -- there's not just one thin pane of glass. There's several panes of glass. But I actually took my hand, put it on the window, and I couldn't feel anything. So, I don't know. The capsule might get warm inside. We'll see how that is. I know the space shuttle did not, and the Soyuz did not. So, we'll see what their experience is like.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's remarkable technology that's like the most terrifying nightclub I could ever think of being inside of.

Terry Virts, I'm so grateful for you sharing your perspective. Thanks so much.

VIRTS: Thanks for having me on.

MATTINGLY: Well, aside from overseeing Artemis II's safe return to Earth, NASA is also eager to continue learning how space impacts the crew's health.

I want to bring in CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. And, Sanjay, from a health standpoint what is NASA most worried about right now?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, since it's NASA let me give it to you in acronym form, Phil. The acronym being RIDGE. And these are sort of the big buckets of things that they're going to be most concerned about. R-I-D-G-E, radiation, isolation, distance from earth, gravity and environment.

And there's lots of things you can get pretty granular about in each of those buckets, but, you know, just talking about gravity for a second, from a health standpoint, when you're in a low or microgravity sort of environment, all sorts of things happen. It can affect your bone mass, it can affect your muscle mass, and you can have changes there very quickly, Phil, and within a couple of days you can have decreases in both bone and muscle mass. But also the fluids in your body, they start to migrate. So, fluids that are usually lower in your body start to migrate up.

So, if you've seen some of these images, Phil, of the astronauts and you're looking at them compared to the images you saw on Earth, you'll see more puffiness, for example, on the right of the screen, more puffiness in the face. That is that fluid migration. But there's more specific to that. The eyes will actually change. So, for example, when they look outside and see the bright moon, and then they look back inside, they may have a hard time acclimating, again, as a result of those gravitational changes in the fluid shifts, and even their taste buds change as a result of this.

So, it's really interesting, Phil, that they send up five different hot sauces because they want to make sure the astronauts are eating, because many of them just lose their taste for food, and obviously not eating would be a problem.

So, there's all these things that they get really, really specific about. They exercise up in space, as you may know. They have what's called the Artemis flywheel, which is designed to sort of counteract many of the things I just talked about, including trying to get some of those fluids sort of recalibrated in the body, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Can you like dig in a little bit more like the specific questions NASA is trying to answer here? What would they be?

GUPTA: Yes, there's a lot of questions. And, obviously, you know, this is a particular mission, but they want to sort of extrapolate what would it feel like to go even longer mission and further away. But there's several questions. One that's pretty interesting is that the immune system in these astronauts seems to be affected when they go into space, when they're in this microgravity environment. So, they're going to be doing these simple experiments where they take these filter papers and they're just collecting saliva samples, and they're basically looking for these biomarkers of immunity. They come back to Earth, those things will be tested.

But they have found, Phil, like on the International Space Station, a microgravity environment can actually reactivate old viral DNA. So, you're fine. You had a viral infection in the past. You're not sick at all. You go into a microgravity environment and all of a sudden that viral DNA gets reactivated. You could become sick. You could potentially pass on a virus to somebody else. Your immune system is compromised. So, you know, that could be a serious problem, something they really want to look at.

And also radiation, the first letter in that acronym, RIDGE. Just how significant is that radiation? What does that do to your cardiovascular system, your bone marrow? These are the sort of questions they're going to be asking. And also what can the astronauts do to shield themselves, especially maybe in the wake of a significant solar flare or something like that?

MATTINGLY: Yes. It'll be fascinating to watch it play out. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, I am a standup guy, so I would be remiss if I did not mention, congratulations to your Wolverines on their national title. I'll never admit to saying this in public.

GUPTA: You are standup guy, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Sanjay Gupta, I appreciate you, my friend. Thanks so much.

GUPTA: Thank you. Go blue. MATTINGLY: Of course, Sanjay's taking your questions on this topic. You can scan the Q.R. code on your screen to submit a question. Sanjay will be back tomorrow to answer some of those viewer questions.

CNN, of course, will have special coverage as the crew of Artemis II makes that splash down tomorrow evening.

[18:15:01]

Look for that tomorrow at 7:00 P.M. Eastern right after The Lead, or watch it on the CNN app.

Well, today, the first lady called on Congress to hold public hearings for Epstein's survivors to testify on Capitol Hill. I'll ask an Epstein's survivor about these comments and whether she would want to testify. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our World Lead, the two-week ceasefire in the Iran war remains intact but in a somewhat tenuous way, with a U.S. delegation preparing to head to Pakistan for further peace talks on Saturday. Tonight, Israel launching fresh strikes against Hezbollah even as yesterday's deadly attacks threatened the status of the ceasefire, and as Israel opened up negotiations with Lebanon, at what sources say was the encouragement of President Trump.

Let me get straight to CNN's Jeremy Diamond and Tel Aviv where sirens just went off. Jeremy, walk people through what's happening right now and what you've seen today.

[18:20:02]

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Phil. The sirens just went off here in Tel Aviv indicating incoming rocket fire very likely from Hezbollah. In fact, the Israeli military earlier tonight had warned Israelis that they were anticipating a night of heavy rocket fire from Hezbollah following a day after Israel carried out the deadliest airstrikes that we have seen in Lebanon over the course of this war, killing more than 200 people, some of those civilians, as Israel carried out strikes in the densely populated areas of the Lebanese capital of Beirut.

Tonight, what we have seen is continued defiance from the Israeli prime minister in terms of whether or not Lebanon is included in this ceasefire with Iran. He is insisting that there is no ceasefire with Iran, and indeed, as Hezbollah is striking here, we've also seen Israeli strikes in Lebanon, and we're hearing the booms right now from some of that rocket fire that is coming in towards the central part of Israel.

But what the Israeli prime minister did do today would say that he's willing to negotiate with Lebanon over establishing peaceful relations and talking about the disarmament of Hezbollah, sources telling me that that's because President Trump requested that directly from the Israeli prime minister. The president also asked Israel to scale back its strikes in Lebanon, and sources are telling us that is the plan.

But what that actually looks like on the ground is very difficult to see at this moment. And it's also not clear that that will be enough for Iran, which has insisted on Israel ceasing fire in Lebanon in order to open the Strait of Hormuz, and also the Lebanese governments, Lebanese officials indicating to us that they will not negotiate under fire with Israel. So, big questions about whether those negotiations will actually end up taking place.

MATTINGLY: Jeremy, real quick. The Strait of Hormuz, the president posted a Truth Social, just a short while ago, saying, if tolling was actually happening, he would be opposed to it. It is happening right now. Do you have any sense right now of where that stands?

DIAMOND: I mean, look, it seems like there are very, very few ships going through the Strait of Hormuz. Our team today tracked four oil tankers that went through the Strait of Hormuz on Thursday. That is a tiny, tiny fraction of the more than 120 ships that normally pass through the Strait of Hormuz on a daily basis before this war began.

So, the strait is not open. It's certainly not in the way that it's supposed to be under the terms of this ceasefire. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Iran is insisting that the Lebanese front should be included in this ceasefire. We will see if those negotiations proceed in Islamabad tomorrow and how this issue of the Strait of Hormuz is addressed and whether this very fragile ceasefire continues to survive. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Jeremy Diamond, great reporting, as always, my friend, from Tel Aviv, thanks so much.

Well, let's turn to our Money Lead and how the Iran War is impacting your wallet and likely your upcoming travel plans. Airlines raising ticket prices, cutting flight options, hiking baggage fees, all to offset higher jet fuel prices and other economic impacts from the war.

Brian Kelly, The Points Guy, is here to help you make sure you are still getting all the best deals. Brian, I always appreciates your time.

Just in terms of air fair prices for this summer, how much higher do we expect them to be at this point compared to last year?

BRIAN KELLY, FOUNDER, THE POINTS GUY: Yes. Well, we already know they're up about 15 percent domestically, internationally, about 20 percent. But there are certain routes that we're seeing Asia, India you know, all the routes that are avoiding the Middle East now are up to 100 percent more expensive as a huge population of people wants to avoid the Middle East. And, yes, it's not just fares, so United and Delta increasing baggage fees 30 percent this week. And, by the way, when jet fuel eventually, hopefully, does come down, those fees don't.

So -- and I would just like to also point out this isn't just economy fairs business class. United announced last week that they're going to be making certain business class passengers pay for seating assignments and all sorts of other new fees. So, yes, it's not looking great.

MATTINGLY: So, this is actually -- you always have great tips and great kind of ways to work around or circumvent certain things. I'm not totally sure how you could possibly have some given the scale of what's and how fulsome it's been, but I assume you do. What should people know about when, where, how to book trips to make sure they're getting the best possible deals at this point?

KELLY: Well, first of all, there's always a deal right before this. I just booked flights to Europe this summer. One of the best ways to hedge your bets is use frequent flyer miles. Most frequent flyer programs let you book tickets and you can cancel them the day of up until departure for free. So, if flight prices come down, you get a good deal elsewhere.

I always like having award tickets booked, so use credit card points transfer to airline programs.

[18:25:00]

Air France, the Flying Blue program, has tons of seats for 60,000 miles in business class this summer. So, don't have a defeatist attitude. The deals are still out there, but you just need to be a little bit flexible. And August this year is much lower. The increases in August are not as bad as in years past. So, you know, just being a little flexible with your dates, use Google Flights to even switching your dates a day or two can save you dramatically. So, you just got to be a little bit savvy, but the deals are there.

MATTINGLY: Positive news, I very much appreciate that. My question is, is there anywhere in the world where it's actually cheaper for people to travel right now, maybe somewhere we should all consider checking out or just the people watching so everybody else doesn't.

KELLY: Yes. You know, Latin America is usually a great value, plus you also have to factor in the U.S. dollar is still really strong in a lot of places. So, there are still deals out there. You know, summer in the Caribbean, it's a little bit hot, but, you know, it's hot everywhere these days. So, you know, typically, the Caribbean, you see really low pricing, in Mexico, in the summer. So, yes, those, the deals are still there. And actually, I will say cruising too. Cruising can still be a great value. You can lock in the price. But just note the cruise lines in all their contracts state that they can actually add on after the fact fuel surcharges.

So, we haven't heard any major cruise line doing that yet, but even if you buy a cruise itinerary today, you should be prepared down the line. They can still ding you with fuel surcharges.

MATTINGLY: Brian Kelly always come away from talking to you with like a glass half full perspective, which I very much appreciate. Thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it.

KELLY: Thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Well, the first lady distanced herself from Jeffrey Epstein and called on Congress to allow Epstein survivors to testify. I'll ask an Epstein survivor what she thinks of all of this, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

MATTINGLY: In our Law and Justice Lead, First Lady Melania Trump today with a rare on-camera statement this time distancing herself from dead pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, and also calling on Congress to hold public hearings allowing his victims to testify on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, U.S. FIRST LADY: I call on Congress to provide the women who have been victimized by Epstein with a public hearing specifically centered around the survivors. Give these victims their opportunity to testify under oath in front of Congress with the power of sworn testimony.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joining me now is Lisa Phillips. She is an Epstein survivor. And, Lisa, this really kind of came out of the blue today, and so I guess I would just start with how are you doing with this -- all of a sudden being thrust right back into the center stage?

LISA PHILLIPS, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Yes. I mean, once you think that it's over, then a couple months later we're thrown back into it. And this is out of left field, wasn't expecting it.

MATTINGLY: What was your reaction to the actual message itself?

PHILLIPS: I think I had a pretty different reaction than most people, even my survivor sisters. I think it's because I also come from Europe and the modeling world, and so does Melania. And so I feel like I have a little deeper understanding of maybe where she's coming from.

I see it as two separate things. First of all, she's coming forward saying, look, I'm fed up of how people are viewing me in the media. This is not true. I'm not on any victim statements. No one's legally accused me of anything. I'm not on the flight log. There's no nefarious emails about me. There aren't any real pictures of her friendly with Ghislaine or Jeffrey. So, I see that she's trying to say, this isn't me, and no matter what, you know, my husband or the president is doing, this is not me. So, I get that side of it.

What I liked about her is that she didn't just turn around and walk away and leave the whole statement about herself. And I don't know what the power play is here or if there is even one, except for the fact that she's fed up all around and fed up, by the way, you're treating me and the media and the public is horrible the way they treat her. Everybody could say that. But also it's horrible how you're treating these victims.

She said that she would like to have a public hearing for survivors. Obviously, we've already had that several times over the last year, but she said that she'd like the opportunity to have the survivors testify under oath. No one's ever given us that. No one's ever said that before. Whether that's possible or not, we're not quite sure because a lot of survivors are scared and they have NDAs and these are powerful people, but it would be sworn into testimony. What she also said was that the testimony would be sworn into Congressional record. I think that's huge because what we're saying has to be taken seriously if it's sworn into Congressional record.

So, I actually think there's really good things coming of -- you know, coming out of what she's saying.

MATTINGLY: What's the -- first off, one of your points I think is really important here is for all the public officials who haven't focused on the victims here, there's no question that the first lady today made that one of the centerpieces of her statement, and it's laudable regardless of anyone's views of the politics here. There are people who have been other survivors -- I think you mentioned this, other survivors that are skeptical or reticent of the idea of publicly testifying in front of Congress. Is that something you would want to do and do you understand why other people may be skeptical of it?

PHILLIPS: Well, I mean, from everything that I've read, everybody's skeptical of it. And they have the right to be because we've been, you know, misled for the last year, you know, since Pam Bondi had the files on her desk. I mean, this has been peeling the onion back.

[18:35:02]

It's like peeling and peeling and it's getting crazier and crazier.

But the thing about it is, yes, nobody believes it because the survivor sisters and the public will say, it's the DOJ's job. It's this person's job. Why did this person do it? But nobody's doing anything. Nobody has done anything.

So, I look at things very differently. I say, okay, this is the first powerful woman, and she has a lot of power, coming forward and saying, I'm going to do something. This is what should happen. What I say is, okay, let's call your bluff. What can you do? You say that you can get us to this public hearing. Let's go. Let's meet with you. You know, let's testify, or whoever wants to. Let's have whatever we say permanently in the record of Congress. I think that's the next step that hasn't happened over the last year.

And everything -- everyone's upset about and saying, you know, pointing fingers at this person's supposed to do something, they're not doing anything. And Pam Bond didn't do anything. And then Todd Blanche, we know, will never do anything. He's already said, oh, there's nothing to see here. But in Melania's speech, she said, I know there's other people involved. So, she actually countered what Todd Blanche said.

So, I think that we need to read between the lines here and move with what Melania is actually stepping forth and saying, I can make it happen for these women. MATTINGLY: It's very important point. I'm very grateful for both your time and sharing your perspective. Lisa Phillips, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries today celebrating the ouster of Kristi Noem as DHS secretary and predicting which cabinet member President Trump will fire next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

MATTINGLY: In our World Lead, Polish prosecutors say a man has been arrested in connection with the alleged rape of an, quote, unknowing victim that was recorded and shared online. The arrest follows an undercover investigation by CNN Journalist Saskya Vandoorne and Niamh Kennedy into a hidden network of men teaching each other how to drug and rape their partners.

Saskya has more on what we're learning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN PARIS BUREAU CHIEF: In a major development, a Polish man has been charged with rape following a months-long CNN investigation into online rape networks. While the prosecutor wouldn't confirm his identity, Polish media have identified him as Piotr. The pseudonym we gave to the man at the center of our probe into a telegram group where men from all over the world are exchanging tips on drugging and raping their partners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANDOORNE (voice over): Last year we began investigating a porn site that gets over 60 million visits a month, focusing on the thousands of videos, featuring women who appear unconscious during sex acts. Most of its users are based in the U.S. It's home to sleep content with hundreds of thousands of views. One popular hashtag is iCheck, a way of proving a woman is asleep.

We created a fake name and soon got into a private telegram group dedicated to sharing sleep content with almost a thousand members. One day, a man in the group we're calling Piotr, not his real name, DMd me.

Piotr admitted to me that he had been crushing pills into his wife's drink to rape her in her sleep. Without encouraging him, I tried to find out how he was managing to do this. Who was he? Where was he?

It's made me even more determined to try and meet him, to get him in person. So, I'm going to send him a message now and I am going to see if he would meet with us. By now, we'd worked out he was in Poland and we knew roughly where he lived, but he refused to meet, and then a tip. He let slips that he was planning to attend a party. That's him. I recognize him.

So, I'm inside the restaurant, and I've just seen him dancing with her. And at the start of this investigation, all of these men were faceless. And so seeing him tonight has just really brought home the fact that this is happening in real life.

The man who had been messaging me day and night was only a few feet away. Oblivious, I'd come to see if he was real. And there he was with his wife. The same people I saw in the videos. We couldn't approach Piotr's wife without potentially putting her in danger, so we reached out to police about our findings.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VANDOORNE (on camera): The Polish police really acted very quickly. The prosecutor's office said the man had, quote, admitted to the charges brought against him. He's now been placed in custody for three months and charged with rape under Poland's criminal code. Now, if convicted, he could face up to 20 years in prison. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Saskya Vandoorne, thank you, remarkable and important reporting.

Well, the warning to Republicans from a Texas state leader on why a GOP majority in the Lone Star State is in jeopardy. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD M. LYONS, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: When ICE officers and special agents are demonized, called Nazis, you know, hated, this violence against. We do it for these -- these individuals, these families who are no longer with their loved ones because they didn't get the justice they deserved. And that's the main reason why ICE and our law enforcement partners are out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: In our politics lead, surrounded by Angel families with some activist groups call those who've lost a family member due to violence by undocumented immigrants, Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons pushed back at critics who he says are demonizing immigration enforcement agents.

Here in the studio is the panel.

Want to talk about this. And, T.W., I want to start with you because, look, ICE's job approval is not great. You can go kind of in any poll and look at one, I think UMass poll published just last week found among U.S. adults, only 18 percent approve, 15 percent somewhat approved, 10 percent somewhat disapprove, 49 percent strongly disapprove of the way ICE is doing its job.

You heard what the acting director was saying there, trying to reframe the mission, or at least the public perception of the mission. What more does ICE need to do for its public image right now, given the fact that this is -- they're doing, what the administration has set out to do and promised they would do on a policy front?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah. And I think there's no doubt that ICE is taking a big branding hit over the last several months, especially after the shooting of the two folks in Minnesota. The Democrats continually sort of holding them up as the exemplar of everything bad with Donald Trump's policies. But at the core, for the middle of this country, people do want to see immigration laws enforced, but they don't want to see people dragged off the streets. They want the border, you know, secured, but they don't like some of the heavy-handed actions that ICE is taking.

Now, under the new leadership of Tom Homan, we've seen things go back to normal. We've heard reporting that Donald Trump was very upset with the heavy-handed comments. You've seen reports of people like Stephen Miller sort of being sidelined more than they had. And I think that's a good thing.

[18:50:01]

And over time, that trust can be rebuilt.

But I think Director Lyons is right. Look, we have every single day, even just this month, many examples of violent, illegal immigrants who are getting into violent clashes with police officers. We saw the poor student Loyola. That can't happen in this country. I think the middle of the country agrees with that.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think a broad swath of the country agrees that our immigration laws should be enforced. And certainly when Trump was elected, that was a big piece of why he was elected. But I think we can't forget that part of the reason that ICE has taken such a hit in terms of public opinion is a lot of the way that they were executing on Trump's orders played out in front of the cameras.

I mean, this isn't you know, I hear I hear, you know, Director Lyons saying, well, people are villainizing them. But for most people, for the average person, you know, they're not on twitter looking at the criticism that's coming from the far left or the far right, they're, you know, watching their local news at night and they're seeing footage of ICE behaving in this way.

So, you know, I think while the broader is certainly I think no question there's public support broadly for strict immigration enforcement. The tactics that ICE used and the way they did it, you know, on camera in front of the world, what's created the drop in trust around ICE. It's not people, it's not people criticizing them. It's what the average person saw them doing in terms of violating people's civil liberties. ARRIGHI: Yeah. I just happen to think that I wish we also gave as

much media coverage to the examples of, of people dying, those angel families as much as we did when ICE misbehaves, both are bad. It's bad when ICE misbehaves. It's bad when violence happens against officers and those trying to execute a warrant for dangerous criminals. I think that deserves just as much coverage. And I think the polling might be different.

MATTINGLY: I think you make an important point. The distinction between border and interior enforcement, the latter of which when it plays out the way it is played out, people see and they feel and it's their neighbors is something that I think maybe the administration did not quite understand would be as impactful as it was.

I want to switch to Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the House. He was speaking. I want to play some of his comments. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Kristi Noem is gone. Pam Bondi is gone. And Pete Hegseth is next up. Challenging times, haters all around us, but we've got to continue to press our case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: T.W., I often go to Democratic leadership to figure out who's next out in the cabinet for my reporting. You think Hegseth's gone next?

ARRIGHI: I think that's very wishful thinking on the part of Hakeem Jeffries.

Look, I think in a lot of the reporting we've seen from "The New York Times" and others about the lead up to the Iran case, it seems that Hegseth is far more involved than it used to be. He's a stalwart defender on the Iran issue.

Lord knows Donald Trump needs help and everyone rowing in the same direction on Iran right now, especially with some of the backlash in different parts of the party. I think the presidents been very happy with Hegseth on that front, so we'll see. But to say he's next up when were in the midst of a battle with Iran, I think is foolish to say the least.

BEDINGFIELD: I think Jeffries is throwing out some red meat for the base. I mean, he's at the National Action Network Conference.

MATTINGLY: He could be the next speaker. How do you think about his evolution as leader?

BEDINGFIELD: So, I actually think that, especially given the fact that Democrats in reality have so few tools at their disposal now, they certainly have the bully pulpit. We could talk about where and how they've been successful and failed in their communications, certainly. But in terms of legislative, legislative levers that they have to pull, they have very few. And I think that Jeffries has navigated that actually with quite a lot of finesse. I mean, if you think about how, you know, he played the shutdown and kind of helped force the health care argument, the Obamacare subsidy argument to the fore, he was able to effectively get the discharge petition over the finish line. I mean, that required a lot of legislative muscle.

So, you know, I think as Democrats are potentially well see looking at a very big November, you know, I think Hakeem Jeffries is somebody who has shown that he has the skill, you know, to navigate to navigate the caucus.

MATTINGLY: Okay. Last one before I let you guys go. The bitter Republican Senate fight in Texas, we literally still have no idea who the president was imminently going to endorse John Cornyn or Ken Paxton.

Yesterday, Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick urged whoever loses that primary runoff to quickly endorse the winner or risk losing total control of the Texas state house. Here's what he said at the Texas Public Policy Foundation's annual conference, quote, "Get over it and come together as one. We're going to have a tough time holding the Texas state house."

I'm sorry. T.W., is the Texas state house in play? And if so -- trying to like, be humble about what may happen going forward seems to be way worse.

ARRIGHI: Uh-huh. I don't profess to be a Texas expert, so I'm not going to get into the weeds about some obscure house district in Texas right now, but I did have a great conversation with the Democrat, who I greatly admire down in Texas, who's doing a lot of work in the Senate race.

[18:55:06]

And he'll even admit it's an uphill battle, regardless of who wins, I don't -- so I wouldn't agree with that. I think the whoever is the Republican nominee will be the next senator from Texas.

MATTINGLY: I appreciate you guys both, as always.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Just in to our law and justice lead. A federal judge today ruled the Pentagon is violating a court order to restore access to reporters. Judge Paul Friedman said the Defense Department must comply with an order he issued earlier supporting "The New York Times" and other news organizations that challenged restrictions put in place last year. Friedman said the Pentagon tried to issue new rules that he deemed even more restrictive.

In the national lead, a new hurricane forecast. Colorado State University researchers are calling for a slightly below average season, with 13 named, including tropical storms and hurricanes. They cite El Nino when ocean temperatures in parts of Pacific run warmer than usual. The Atlantic season starts June 1st and runs through the end of November.

You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.