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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Sen. Roger Marshall (R-KS) Is Interviewed About Trump Claims The Jesus-Like AI Image He Posted Was Meant To Depict Him As A Doctor, IEA: Global Oil Demand To See Sharpest Quarterly Fall Since COVID; How The War & U.S. Blockade Affect What We Buy; Suspect In Attack At Altman's House Held Without Bail On Attempted Murder & Attempted Arson Charges; More Hollywood Stars Sign Letter Opposing Paramount's Deal For WBD; "No Tax On Tips" Event Overshadowed By Iran War, Feud With Pope; U.S. Fertility Rate Drops To Another Record Low In 2025. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired April 14, 2026 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks very much my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here today. Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Really appreciate you.
Don't go anywhere. Phil Mattingly is standing by in for Jake for "The Lead." Hi, Phil.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kasie. Thanks so much. We'll look for more tomorrow in "The Arena."
HUNT: Have a great show.
[17:00:37]
MATTINGLY: President Trump just not letting up on that rift with the pope. The Lead starts right now.
New criticism from President Trump as he takes issue with words from the Pope, the man whose literal job it is to preach world peace. Ahead, how Trump's criticism has divided even his base. Republican senator will be here to discuss. Plus, breaking news, a 20-year-old do in court accused of trying to kill OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and set fire to his San Francisco home. The AI writings that authorities say were behind this attack.
And sounds a little strange. President Trump's response when CNN called him up and told him about one of his FEMA officials telling stories about teleporting to Waffle House.
Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.
We start and our faith leap for the third day in a row, President Donald Trump is criticizing Pope Leo. He still faces political fallout for posting an AI generated photo of himself as Jesus. In a phone interview today with an Italian newspaper, Trump said, quote, "He doesn't understand and shouldn't be talking about war because he has no idea what's happening." The Pope a few hours ago posted on X, quote, "God's heart is torn apart by wars, violence, injustice and lies. But our Father's heart is not with the wicked, the arrogant or the proud.
God's heart is with the little ones and the humble. And with them he builds up his kingdom of love and peace day by day."
While riled up in the interview related to the Pope, the president also criticized Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni for calling his comments about the Pope unacceptable. Trump saying, quote, "It's her who's unacceptable because she doesn't care if Iran has a nuclear weapon and would blow up Italy in two minutes if they had the chance."
And no, you're not misremembering, Trump typically compliments Meloni. Trump went on to slam her for Italy's lack of support in the U.S. war with Iran, saying, quote, "I thought she was brave, but I was wrong." Meloni responded by defending her disagreements with the Trump administration saying, quote, "You also have to have the courage to say when you disagree."
Well, Meloni is not the only Trump ally telling Trump they disagree. Today, House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked what he thought when he saw the president's post depicting himself as Jesus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: I talked with the president about it as soon as I saw it and told him that I don't think it was being received in the same way he intended it. He agreed and he pulled it down. That was the right thing to do. He explained how he saw that, and I don't think he thought it was sacrilegious at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Now, remember, Trump claims he thought the image portrayed him as a doctor. Vice President J.D. Vance, well, he said the post was just a joke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the President was posting a joke. And of course, he took it down because he recognized that a lot of people weren't understanding his humor in that case. I think the President United States likes to mix it up on social media. And I actually think that's one of the good things about this president, is that he's not filtered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Joining me now, Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas.
Senator, really appreciate your time. Just to start with, you're public about your Christian faith. Many people --
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS), BUDGET COMMITTEE: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- who share your faith in the Republican Party, staunch allies of the president, have called Trump's post blasphemous. Do you agree?
MARSHALL: Well, I'm certainly glad that he took it down. I think Speaker Johnson got right to the heart of the matter. What the President intended wasn't maybe the way some of us were taking it. But I'm very glad that he took it down.
MATTINGLY: I'm interested if his kind of -- the way he described it as he thought it was him being a doctor and was not a depiction of him as Jesus. Do you think that tracks? Does that make sense to you?
MARSHALL: I feel you're probably taking it a lot deeper than I took it. I barely glanced at the post. I don't follow anybody, to be honest. So I saw it for a second and I didn't look at it much deeper. But I'm very glad he took that post down.
MATTINGLY: I think one of the questions I've had over the course of the last couple of days is for Republicans like yourself who are supporters of the president have been very supportive of the rationale and justification for the war, for Operation Epic Fury. Do you feel like a fight with the Pope or this post on X or Truth Social are helping to move the ball forward towards an outcome here?
[17:05:06]
MARSHALL: Well, Phil, I hate to get into the president's head. He seems to be able to juggle a lot of balls in the air. Certainly the Iran war is front and center to many of us. And you know, I want this war to be over as soon as possible. But to me, that -- what President Trump and I do agree on here is that Iran cannot have nuclear weapons.
And that's my focus today.
MATTINGLY: Is there any concern though that, like people are talking about a fight with the Pope instead of what the actual national security goals are?
MARSHALL: Yes, Phil, I think it's a great question, but really, as a U.S. senator, I just don't stay focused on the things I can't control. I'm focused on the -- on the economy right now. How do we bring down the cost of housing, of health care, of childcare? That's what I'm focused on. I'm focused on tomorrow's tax day and it's truly going to be a great, happy day for folks tomorrow.
The average working family is going to get between two and $4,000 refund tomorrow. That's something to talk about. So I'm focused on prosperity. I'm focused on security of this country. I don't get too worried about all these esoteric things like you're describing.
MATTINGLY: You make -- for the record, that's much more where I would like to be speaking --
MARSHALL: Yes. OK. MATTINGLY: -- or talking to you about other policy issues. I think we've done this before and you know that. The issue of the economy in this moment --
MARSHALL: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- you know, you were just home -- the Senate just came back into session, talking to constituents, talking to Kansans. You relayed to Newsmax this morning a, quote you said, "I'm sorry the gas prices are going up, but help is on the way." And your national security, yes, is even more important than your pocketbook.
MARSHALL: Yes.
MATTINGLY: That is a kind of long game pitch, a rationale that I've heard from administration officials repeatedly. Like after 50 years or 47 years, the end game here is going to be much better, both for energy security, removing the terror premium on energy, for costs in general. When you talk to constituents, do they buy that?
MARSHALL: They do, Phil, and I think you nailed it when you say the long game. Kansans, of course, are big fans of President Eisenhower. He always played the long game and he asked Americans to make sacrifices at certain times. But I would argue that if Iran ever had nuclear weapons and then they controlled the Strait of Hormuz, that gasoline would be $10 a gallon.
You know, the good news, what gas in America right now is $3.14 a gallon on average. Something -- no, no, four -- maybe $4.14, forgive me, $4.14 a gallon. In Europe right now it's $7 a gallon. So it's not great. I'm concerned about it.
The good news is we're the largest oil producer in the world right now, that we're a net exporter, that people aren't standing in lines, that we're not asking, put people sweaters on or take clothes off whatever time of the year it is, and adjust their thermostats as well. So yes, I'm asking Americans to make a short term sacrifice here for a long term gain.
MATTINGLY: There's no question there's a degree of insulation that makes us a dramatically different moment than the 1970s or dramatically different from what Asian markets are dealing with or European markets are dealing with right now. But you're a farm heavy state --
MARSHALL: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- and fertilizer is one of those kind of downstream effects here where prices have really surged. What are you hearing and how long do you think that is sustainable for Kansas agriculture community?
MARSHALL: Well, the good news is the net income for Kansas farmers is up 80 percent last year. So despite all these high input costs, they're certainly doing better than did the previous four years. I want to go back to the, when the Ukraine war and that's when I became especially concerned about fertilizer prices. We saw fertilizer prices jump up 50 percent. A lot of the potash is mined in that area.
A lot of the natural gas is turned into nitrogen based fertilizers as well. And now we have another jump. So -- but for four years now, I've been working on legislation that would help make fertilizer less expensive. And I'm so proud of the work that we've done and give others credit, Senator Amy Klobuchar, Chuck Grassley, John Thune. We have a package of fertilizer bills that would increase competition, more transparent, allow some of these younger companies to get into the market as well.
And I'm especially proud of our Plant Biostimulant Act that there's microorganisms out there that could function like fertilizers, help plants grab nitrogen out of the soil. So we're trying to do something about it. And maybe now I have the momentum to get this across the finish line.
MATTINGLY: Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas, we do want to acknowledge the destructive tornadoes that hit your state yesterday. Our thoughts and prayers are certainly --
MARSHALL: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: -- with your community, with your constituents. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
MARSHALL: Thank you, Phil.
MATTINGLY: Well, up next, the larger Iran war that had the pope speaking out in the first place. The bit of traction on talks here in Washington today led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Plus, the ripple effect of this war and your wallet, how the blockade on ships in the Strait of Hormuz is impacting global trade. Hear from the man who manages one of the shipping's largest ports in the U.S.
[17:10:07]
And later, the birth rate debate. Are more babies better for the U.S. economy? Strong case to support that argument coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTINGLY: In our world lead, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was at the table today here in Washington for the opening round of talks between Israel and Lebanon, their first direct negotiations in more than 40 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: All of the complexities of this matter are not going to be resolved in the next six hours, but we can begin to move forward and create the framework where something can have something very positive, something very permanent, so the people of Lebanon can have the kind of future they deserve. And so that the people of Israel can live without fear being struck by rocket attacks from the terrorist proxy of Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Rubio is referring to the Lebanese militia group Hezbollah, which claimed credit for shooting rockets toward northern Israel just before today's meeting. Lebanese media reports fresh Israeli strikes in southern Lebanon. Well, today's talks ended with Israel and Lebanon agreeing to hold further direct negotiations at a, quote, "mutually agreed time and place."
[17:15:04]
Well, turning to our money lead, U.S. Central Command says six merchant ships turned around and returned to Iranian ports today after encountering the U.S. Naval blockade limiting traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. However, at least nine commercial vessels have crossed the straits since yesterday. That's according to Kpler, the data, intelligence and analytics platform. President Trump says, quote, something could be happening over the next two days in Pakistan as the U.S. and Iran try to come back to the negotiating table.
Well, amid hope for new rounds of talks, gas prices in the U.S. actually dropped to $4.12 a gallon today, down a whole 5 cents a gallon from their peak last Thursday. We're joined now by the executive director of the Port of Los Angeles, Gene Seroka.
And Gene, you have such great insight into kind of the entire global supply chain, the conversations you're having across that supply chain. I think one of the things that I've been trying to quantify over the course of the last several weeks is the idea of going from, you know, on average 110 ships a day passing through the Strait of Hormuz, just a trickle now. We see what's happening in gas prices. But what are the knock on effects that U.S. consumers either are feeling right now or about to be feeling in the weeks ahead if something doesn't change?
GENE SEROKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PORT OF LOS ANGELES: Good afternoon, Phil. And while the Trans-Pacific supply chain trade with the U.S. and Asia is moving quite smoothly, there are a couple things that have happened. The vessel fuel that's used on these big container ships, bulkers and barges has doubled over the past six weeks. Those charges will be passed on to the import export community, who will then pass them on to American consumers. So prices are getting steep when you look at the totality of ocean freight.
Second, because all this cargo that normally emanates from Asia going to the Middle East has stopped for that past month and a half, you're starting to see cargo pile up a little bit at ports that we share in Asia. Think of Singapore, Taiwan, Northern China, South Korea and Japan.
In my conversations during the evenings here in Los Angeles with port folks and supply chain providers overseas, they're doing a really good job of separating that cargo so ours can keep moving at high rates of speed. But there may be a point if this continues on for some time that that cargo gets gummed up as well.
MATTINGLY: Let's say hypothetically, the strait opens and not just in a literal sense, but also the perception of its being open, which ships would actually need to move through at this point tomorrow, how long -- this isn't flipping a switch here, how long would it take for the disruption to really start to even out?
SEROKA: That's right, Phil. I don't think we're going to get an all clear sign from the authorities, nor is it going to be a straight line ramping all these ships back up to normal rotations. But typically in our business, if a port is shut down for a day for whatever reason, it takes about three days to catch up with the backlog. So as we sit here on day 46 of this war with Iran, we're looking at about four and a half months to return to some assemblance of normalcy.
MATTINGLY: You have been in your role with eyes on some of the, I think most acute bottlenecks in supply chains that, I mean I remember covering the White House and the Biden administration and how often you were talking to them, trying to figure this out post COVID or coming out of COVID right now. How does this compare to what you've seen in terms of scale disruption and the potential downstream effect over time if there isn't a change soon?
SEROKA: This one has some ripple effects and implications that go well beyond what we saw during COVID of port congestion here in Southern California. There's an energy component, there's a human component. With all of these ships that have been stuck either inside the Arabian Gulf or outside in the Gulf of Oman, I'm concerned about making sure that we get food, water and medicine to the crews who have been stranded on these vessels for the better part of six weeks.
The other piece to this is that the Middle Eastern market looks a lot like the U.S. from a consumer base. So they're buying footwear, furniture, clothing, electronics and perishable commodities. Those inventories are starting to draw down, store shelves are getting a little bit more empty and folks are really looking for where they're going to have their day to day staples.
The knock on effects here because we don't share assets, crews or vessels could be at those good points of relay as I mentioned at the ports we share. Having those effects on system wide movements of cargo on other ships. We've seen over the last two days, as an example, Phil, for a variety of reasons including fuel, there have been over 1,700 flights delayed and canceled at many Asia hubs. What I'm hearing directly is the concern for those who are dependent on oil from the Middle East in Southeast Asia all the way up through Korea and Japan is really coming to a head now.
[17:20:17]
MATTINGLY: Gene Seroka, always appreciate your perspective, sir. Thanks so much.
Well, up next, the man accused of attacking the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. He's charged with attempted murder and attempted arson. The writings by the suspect, according to prosecutors, and they speak to a motive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:25:00]
MATTINGLY: Breaking news in the tech lead, an arraignment now postponed for the 20-year-old accused of trying to kill the CEO of OpenAI. Prosecutors say early last Friday morning Daniel Moreno-Gama threw a Molotov cocktail at Sam Altman San Francisco home. About an hour later, authorities say Moreno-Gama went to the OpenAI headquarters and tried to break glass doors with a chair and threatened to burn down the building. He faces several charges, including attempted murder and attempted arson. A defense attorney says the suspect suffered from an acute mental health crisis.
He'll be held in jail without bail until his next court appearance, which is on May 5th. I want to bring in CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence analyst John Miller, along with tech journalist Laurie Segall, the host of the "Mostly Human" podcast. She recently sat down with Sam Altman.
John, I want to start with you. In terms of the police work here, how are authorities so certain the person who threw the Molotov cocktail at Altman's home is the same person who was spotted at OpenAI's headquarters?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, Daniel Moreno-Gama basically left them a trail of evidence, whether deliberately or just carelessly. But you know, he appears on multiple videos where the security cameras were obviously placed at the home. He is then moving to the office. So that's from 3:47 a.m. to 5:00 in the morning. At the office, he's wearing the same thing, not wearing a mask or anything to conceal himself from even more video cameras.
And when he's confronted by security after using a metal chair to try and break into the building to throw his Molotov cocktail inside, allegedly, you know, he doesn't put up much resistance as the security people take him in custody and wait for police. Then of course there's the manifesto that he mailed out to friends with the headline on it and then his name underneath it listing all the reasons that he needed to kill Sam Altman allegedly and burn down the headquarters. So it's one of those things where I don't want to say he wanted to get caught, but he certainly didn't do much to prevent that from happening. And he speaks of this, Phil, I mean, it's interesting what he says. If he calls on others to pick up this effort after him and he says, and I'm quoting now, "If I'm going to advocate for others to kill and commit crimes, then I must lead by example and show that I am fully committed, you know, in my message."
So that according to the federal complaint that was signed today.
MATTINGLY: You mentioned the manifesto, John. I want to play more -- something from the prosecutors yesterday as they discussed that manifesto they say Moreno-Gama wrote. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG MISSAKIAN, U.S. ATTY. NORTH DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA: This document contained views opposed to AI and AI executives and reflected that the author had killed or attempted to kill the CEO.
BROOKE JENKINS, 31ST DISTRICT ATTY. OF SAN FRANCISCO: In no way should we be at the point where a man could have lost his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: The idea of targeting a top executive, I think would naturally bring to mind the UnitedHealthcare CEO killing. Do you get a sense that there's a rise in these kinds of investigations or threats across various industries?
MILLER: There is zero doubt of that. And this is what law enforcement authorities categorize as targeted violence, where you have an issue that may be overarching AI, health care, politics, but they target an individual. And we're seeing the increase of that with things like Luigi Mangione, as you mentioned, UnitedHealthcare CEO Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk, the attempt on President Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, and we're going to see more. It's contagion. It's why you see two of these against Sam Altman in the same week.
MATTINGLY: Laurie, about Sam Altman and you know this space better than anybody I could talk to at this point. You asked Altman directly if you felt the weight of, yes, the excitement, but also the fear that a lot of people have about AI want to play that. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM ALTMAN, CEO, OPENAI: Yes. I mean, we are clearly entering the phase where AI is going to be one of the high order bits of how our future society gets shaped. And I think people feel all of the excitement, fear, anxiety, hope, nervousness all at once. Interest, terror.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: What was your sense of what Altman seemed to understand about the fear component of that?
LAURIE SEGALL, HOST, "MOSTLY HUMAN WITH LAURIE SEGALL" PODCAST: You know, I interviewed -- I've been interviewing Sam for the last 15 years. He's a longtime entrepreneur and so I had interviewed him just a couple weeks ago to get this response. And my sense, when I've interviewed him back in 2020, he said to me, no one's talking about AI and how transformative it's going to be for the human experience, the good and the bad. We need to start talking about it. To some degree OpenAI as a research lab was born out of anxiety.
So my understanding is that he is thinking quite a bit about these things. We are looking at a world, Phil, where AI is going to lead to job loss, cyber-attacks, bioweapons. You know, there -- we run the risk of power being concentrated in the hands of few.
[17:30:06]
We're also looking at a world where A.I. is going to lead to incredible medical breakthroughs, access to so -- for so many people, the democratization of education in many ways, it's an and.
And I think it's worth, as someone who's covered the human impact of technology my whole career, it's surreal seeing these attacks on Sam Altman, on his family, on any executive. And what I would just say is this deserves the debate and it deserves a debate that's just outside of Silicon Valley and in civil society because this will impact all of us. But violence has absolutely no, no role in this debate.
Intimidation, threatening someone's family, their livelihood, threatening employees at the company because you disagree, it actually has the opposite impact of creating a product -- a productive and a meaningful debate around these issues.
MATTINGLY: There's no question about that. I can't stress enough to folks. Mostly Human is the podcast. If you're not following Laurie Segall, follow her. She knows this space. And as she noted, has been talking to all of the major players who understand this space or trying to understand what this space means going forward in a very kind of uncertain but also exciting and sometimes scary moment. John Miller, Laurie Segall, really appreciate you both. Thanks so much.
Well, up next, a growing protest against a mega media merger. Some of the big names taking issue with Paramount's plan to take over the company that owns this network, Warner Brothers Discovery.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:35:55]
MATTINGLY: Just in to our Money Lead, more than 2,000 Hollywood stars and professionals have now signed their names to a bombshell opening -- open letter expressing, "Unequivocal opposition to Paramount's pending acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery." We should note that WBD is also the parent company of CNN. CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter is following this for us. Brian, this letter has really sent shockwaves through the industry. More people are signing and Paramount is responding, right?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, Phil, that's right. This open letter is remarkable because it's coming from big names, J.J. Abrams, Tiffany Haddish, Bryan Cranston, Glenn Close. These are stars and directors, including some who are in business with Paramount or Warner currently. Yesterday, advocacy groups said that about 1,000 entertainment professionals had signed on.
And today, that number has doubled. I'm told as of this afternoon, the number is upwards of 2,000, with more Hollywood types adding their names, including Florence Pugh and Pedro Pascal. So here's a portion of that letter from blockthemerger.com. It says, the result of the merger will be fewer opportunities for creators, fewer jobs across the production ecosystem, higher costs and less choice for audiences.
In response to the letter, Paramount has repeated its commitment to Hollywood artists, including the commitment to make a lot of movies at those two studios. And it says a combined Paramount-WBD will offer, "More avenues for their work, not fewer." Of course, Paramount's the only remaining bidder for WBD, including CNN, now that Netflix dropped out of that bidding race back in February.
A key shareholder vote on the matter is coming up next week. What we're seeing forming is a growing coalition against the deal. And many U.S. politicians have also weighed in. Senator Cory Booker, for example, announcing he's going to hold a shadow hearing about the deal tomorrow.
And there's a big question mark about California, and whether the California Attorney General Rob Bonta and other state AGs will weigh in, whether they will try to block the deal. There's an expectation those state AGs are thinking about doing so and could take action this summer. That open letter, now with 2,000 signatures, is intended to pressure the state AGs to take action. Phil?
MATTINGLY: Brian Stelter with the latest. Thanks so much, my friend.
Well, in our Politics Lead, President Trump is weighing in on perhaps his administration's strangest controversy, high bar. You may recall CNN's investigation last month into FEMA official Gregg Phillips and his outlandish rhetoric, specifically his claims of teleportation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGG PHILLIPS, FEMA OFFICIAL: I was going to go to Waffle House and get waffles. And I ended up at a Waffle House. This is in Georgia. And I ended up at a Waffle House like 50 miles away from where I was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: When asked to explain this and several other examples, Phillips said these experiences happened while undergoing treatment for metastatic bone cancer, and he was heavily medicated on a self- prescribed experimental regimen.
Despite this, Phillips stands by his teleportation saying, "Haters going to hate." In a brief interview with CNN, the President commented on them. Sorry, this is like the wildest mad libs of words putting together. He commented on the controversy asking, "What does teleport mean? Was he kidding?" After being told that Phillips was in fact not kidding, Trump responded, "I don't know anything about teleporting. It just sounds a little strange, but I know nothing about teleporting or him, but I'll find out about it right now."
According to a source familiar with the situation, since CNN's reporting, Phillips has been quietly sidelined from parts of FEMA's operation, pulled from a scheduled Capitol Hill hearing, and directed to stop posting about teleporting on Truth Social. People close to Phillips say he has grown agitated and suspicious that Trump officials are working against him because of his comments.
Many of those same officials say that in spite of these questionable claims, Phillips is actually doing a pretty good job at FEMA, and that if you can look past the absurdity, he really cares about people and being prepared for hurricane season. Phillips did not respond to CNN's requests for comment. And with that, I want to bring in the panel.
[17:40:05]
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sorry.
MATTINGLY: So Shermichael?
SINGLETON: Yes.
FINNEY: I'm your babe.
MATTINGLY: I don't really have a great question here. I just -- I'm still trying to, first of all, the K-File story was like amazing. The fact the President picked up the phone.
SINGLETON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: I often wonder if the president's best use of his time is picking up the phone every time a reporter seems to call over the course of the last month.
SINGLETON: To answer any question.
MATTINGLY: But I am very -- I feel like this was a good use of the time. I was interested in his perspective. What say you?
SINGLETON: First, I'll say, I hope Mr. Phillips beats the cancer.
MATTINGLY: A hundred percent.
SINGLETON: Devastating thing.
FINNEY: Absolutely.
SINGLETON: That said, when I read the story, I was a bit surprised. I believe maybe he is doing a good job. But we all meet interesting people with interesting beliefs. And I'll put Mr. Phillips in that category.
FINNEY: That is very generous.
SINGLETON: Very diplomatic.
FINNEY: Yes.
MATTINGLY: That's a professional answer.
FINNEY: Yes. Yes. My people don't teleport. I'm going to say that right now. I've not -- I don't know a Democrat --
MATTINGLY: I don't know that. Maybe they just don't talk about it.
FINNEY: Well --
SINGLETON: That's possible. That is possible.
FINNEY: That's better. Politically, that's a smart strategy. MATTINGLY: So I think my question is, so there was a White House official who told CNN back when K-File first reported this story, "Everyone's thoughts were, what the hell is this? This guy has to go." He's still there.
FINNEY: Yes. Look, I mean, the question is really about whether or not this person is doing a good job. I mean, let's be honest, though. It goes back to something we talked about a little over a year ago when the President first came in, when the government was being DOGE'd and people were being put into positions based on their loyalty to the President. And in this K-File story, they talk about the fact that he is very loyal to the President.
And so this is what happens. I mean, with like we saw with Kristi Noem and her husband, when you don't do actual vetting of people to know what might be in their background, you're going to have these kinds of things happen. And it's a disservice, frankly, to the country. Again, if he's doing a good job, that's one thing. But, you know, it's such a -- the President of the United States of America was asked about teleportation. Can we go any lower? Oh, yes, we can, because then the President, you know, posted a picture of himself as Jesus.
I mean, we're just in a, you know, if you are someone in this country who is struggling, you are probably thinking, what the hell is going on? What's wrong with these people that they're not trying to lower my costs and end this war and make my life better?
MATTINGLY: It's actually it's an interesting segue to something I was watching yesterday. And I actually thought about, Shermichael, when I was watching.
SINGLETON: Oh, boy.
MATTINGLY: It's a compliment.
SINGLETON: I just didn't know where we were going.
MATTINGLY: The President ended up having kind of a press event yesterday with a Grubhub driver.
SINGLETON: I saw that. Yes.
MATTINGLY: And the point of it was to talk about tax on tips, one of the cornerstone policies of the one big, beautiful bill. You know, the cornerstone legislative achievement, domestic policy priorities for this administration that every Republican I talked to is like, God, I wish we could talk about that every single day. The President was doing that. I want you to take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This doesn't look staged, does it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're all your favorites.
TRUMP: I'll put this over here. And why don't we have a news conference with press?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: It turned into a news conference, which, you know, obviously, we're in the middle of a turned into a conversation about Iran and a few other things I'll get to in a minute. But that idea of this is a policy that Republicans want him to talk about, they believe is successful, and then it turns into a press conference with the Grubhub driver standing next to him and occasionally getting questions asked of her by the President.
SINGLETON: Now, look, I think it is what the party wants to focus on, cost of living, affordability. When you look at the slew of special election races that my Democratic friends have been successful past several months, those individual candidates have talked a lot about rising prices, cost, education, health care, affordability, broadly speaking. And our party, unfortunately, we haven't been able to be on the same page with that message.
And so they have the President focusing on that to have a Grubhub driver. I'm assuming this is someone who works her butt off to provide probably for herself, maybe her kids or grandkids. I think the image is the proper image that I would want out there to the American people.
But I think the question is, was this just a one-off, or can we see the persistence of this over the next couple of months?
MATTINGLY: Go ahead, Karen.
FINNEY: Can we also point out, so then she went and did some interviews on the North Lawn. And the President, during the press conference, said she got $11,000 back. When she was asked on the North Lawn, she admitted, no, it wasn't that much. It was more like $3,000. So, I mean, he stepped on really his own story and his own message, because he was trying, he also wanted to talk in this no-tax on tips and how you're going to get all this money back.
And it also leads to another point, which is also a woman, a person like that. So you've got that $3,000. You may have run up your credit card debt trying to keep up with rising costs. So does that money actually even cover the fact that all of your costs are going up? It's not like people necessarily, if you're low to middle income, are going to have more money in their pockets and more money in their wallets. It's really going right back out the door to pay for these high costs.
[17:45:12]
SINGLETON: Just really, really quickly. That is the argument that you're hearing from a lot of Democrats. And they'll point to the war. They'll point to other conflicts. And unfortunately, we're on the negative of that, having to defend the conflict in the Middle East versus talking about these issues. We got to wind down this Iranian conflict, get back to the issues, that kitchen table stuff that people care about so that we don't see that advantage to my friends on the other side, because as Karen just articulated, it is working. MATTINGLY: Yes, yes. That was why I was thinking about you when I was watching that point that you made, which we've talked about.
SINGLETON: A lot. Yes.
MATTINGLY: You guys are sticking around. We'll be right back.
Next up, the birthrate debate and an argument that the U.S. needs more babies to help the U.S. economy. Stick with us.
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[17:50:14]
MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, Americans are having fewer children. That's according to recent CDC data. Last year's U.S. fertility rate dropped to a record low, about 3.6 million births in 2025, compared to the peak, 4.3 million in 2007, a difference of about 700,000 fewer children.
Joining the panel now, Melissa Kearney. She's the director of the Aspen Economic Strategy Group, an economics professor at Notre Dame University. Melissa, it's a stunning drop from 2025 back to 2007. What are the factors? What's driving it?
MELISSA S. KEARNEY, DIRECTOR, ASPEN ECONOMIC STRATEGY GROUP: It's not any one specific, easy-to-point-to factor like an increase in the cost of child care or an increase in women's wages. This is a decline that's been happening for 18 years. We've seen it in other high-income countries as well.
The way I've made sense of the data and the studies and the evidence is really to point to a broad shifting of priorities, a reprioritization of what people are choosing to spend their time and money and effort investing in in their 20s and 30s. And what we're seeing across the board, across basically all groups, is delayed family formation, a foregoing of marriage and having children in the 20s and 30s. And it's really that decline among younger people today that's driving this reduction in fertility.
MATTINGLY: This is a debate that gets people very fired up very, very quickly.
KEARNEY: Yes.
MATTINGLY: I guess I would ask, one, why do you think that is? And two, how do you think about what could change things or send things back the other direction?
KEARNEY: It gets very fired up because, of course, the decision to have a child is a very personal decision. And even when I say something like shifting priorities, people hear judgment in that, which is not what I mean. It's just a reflection of, what are people doing? They're not getting married. They're not having kids. They're doing other things. That's not saying that people are making mistakes from their own well- being or anything like that. It's not saying people owe it to the economy or the U.S. to have babies. But it is saying that these low fertility rates, in a sustained way, fundamentally are going to change our economy and our society going forward.
And we should be able to have a rational conversation about that. And also ask, are there things we could be doing as a society that would make it such that people who would want to have children feel more readily equipped to choose to do that?
FINNEY: I mean, that feels like sort of on the political part of this conversation. It is something that we've been talking about for a long time, which is a lot of people are deferring because they can't afford it. I mean, think about, I mean, you can't buy a house. How are you going to pay for child care? How are you going to have a baby, which is very expensive? Do you have the right health care to be able to guarantee? Because we also know in some states in this country, maternal mortality rates are abysmal. So again, I mean, I know for a lot of Black women, there's a real fear, actually, of having children because of the health issues.
I mean, so I think that's the other piece of this. When we think about policy, it has to be kind of a holistic look, which we never really do, to say, how do we -- for people who want to have children, how do we make it easier? What policies do we need to support people? And not just sort of brush it off in terms of, you know, thinking it has real impact if you feel like, look, I just can't afford it. And I'm just not sure that's the right choice for me until I have more money in my pocket.
MATTINGLY: Shermichael, what's interesting about that point is the Republican Party, and look, you can listen to J.D. Vance, you can listen to top Republicans constantly talking about more kids, bigger families, this is what we need to be doing. But on a policy basis, there has actually been an interesting break from kind of conservative orthodoxy on helping in the care economy, not necessarily in the ways Democrats would like, by any means. But, you know, I think about Mitt Romney and Josh Hawley on tax credits.
SINGLETON: Tax credits, I was going to say that.
MATTINGLY: Hawley has been a leader, I think, in really breaking with how Republicans traditionally viewed these issues. From a policy perspective, where do you think that is in the party right now?
SINGLETON: I mean, I think tax credits is certainly one that I think is palpable for most people. I agree with Karen, though, on having a broader, wide look at this. I'm a conservative. I have some traditional perspectives on this. But I think Democrats do make a lot of great points on women in the workplace and women who decide to get advanced degrees. How do we allow those women to move forward with their visions, their dreams while saying, hey, you can still do this. And we as a society will make sure you can still become a mom. And we'll make sure that the support is there financially. It's in the benefit, I would argue, long term of the country. And even looking at our workforce, we want to have a strong, vibrant next generation coming up through the ranks.
Professor, I would imagine that's critical when we look 50 years from now. And so I think there are some ways we can see some bipartisanship on this, Karen.
FINNEY: If only we didn't have a war to worry about. And you know, a whole list of other things that are taking up the time and energy.
[17:55:00]
KEARNEY: This should be a big tent issue.
SINGLETON: Oh, absolutely.
KEARNEY: It should be. You do have social conservatives saying, hey, we want to be a more family-friendly, pro-natalist society. And you've had Democrats long saying, we need to spend more money on kids and bolstering families and helping people navigate the conflict between work and parenthood in this country. That means that there should be broad support for recognizing that this is an issue that we need to be investing our policy resources and our money and time to.
MATTINGLY: Not a concept. We had the conversation and no one --
FINNEY: How about that?
MATTINGLY: We weren't fired up at all.
FINNEY: We actually agreed.
MATTINGLY: We all had an interesting conversation about things. Thank you very much. Thank you, guys. Appreciate you.
Well, up next, did allies of Eric Swalwell know about the rape allegations and not act on them? Hear from a Democrat who called himself a close friend of the now-former congressman. That's next.
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[17:59:55]
MATTINGLY: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, two members of Congress now out of their jobs after getting engulfed in sex related scandals.
