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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Iranian Officials: Talks Between Iran And U.S. Expected Monday In Pakistan; Soon: Trump Speaks At Turning Point USA Event In Phoenix; DOJ Removes Prosecutor From Probe Of Trump Critic John Brennan; Federal Judge Urges Americans To "Think Like Jurors" To Stop Spread Of Online Misinformation; RFK Jr. Denies Promoting Medical Misinformation As Lawmakers Press Him On Pass Remarks; Former Pence Aide Launches Bid For Congress As A Democrat. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 17, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. thanks very much, my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here. Have a wonderful weekend. Thanks to you at home for watching as well.

You have a good weekend, too. Please spend some time, some more time with us, The Arena tomorrow, The Arena Saturday will air at noon and again at 4:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. We'd love to see you there. But right now, don't go anywhere because the singular Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead."

Hi, Jake. Happy Friday.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Singular. Nice.

HUNT: Hey.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks, Kasie. I appreciate it. We'll look for more next week in "The Arena." Have a great weekend.

HUNT: See you soon.

[17:00:40]

TAPPER: The Lead starts right now. What will he say? We're standing by to hear from President Trump. He's set to take the stage in Arizona any moment now at a Turning Point USA event. And Trump's grievance list still top of mind at the Justice Department.

Today's target, a prosecutor was withhold from the case after he resisted pressure to charge one of Trump's perceived political enemies. We'll bring you more on that in a second. Plus, World Cup excitement turned to World Cup outrage as the busy New York area gets ready to host games. Transit riders are sounding off about train fares. They're about to go from $13 up to a jaw dropping $150.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're going to start with breaking news. President Trump is just moments away from taking the stage in Arizona. He is attending a Turning Point USA event in Phoenix.

This will be his first since the assassination of the group's founder, Charlie Kirk. Will the president make more news today in the world lead where a couple of big questions are looming regarding the Iran war? Is an end to the conflict in sight? Is the Strait of Hormuz open for business or not? It has been a whirlwind day starting this morning with Iran announcing that it had reopened the strait to commercial traffic thanks to yesterday's new cease fire between Israel and Lebanon.

Then President Trump claimed on Truth Social that Iran agreed to, quote, "never close the Strait of Hormuz again." He wrote in all caps, quote, "The Strait of Hormuz is completely open and ready for business and full passage, but the naval blockade by the U.S. will remain in full force, in effect as it pertains to Iran only until such time as our transaction with Iran is 100 percent complete," unquote.

So, OK, Iran state media apparently didn't like that whole U.S. blockade will remain, at least for now part. And it reported that if the U.S. continues the U.S. naval blockade, Iran will consider that a violation of the ceasefire and they will reclose the Strait of Hormuz.

Now, Iran's navy says all transit requires its permission, Iran's permission, and that civilian vessels are allowed to pass only through Iran's designated route through the strait and that military vessels still cannot transit through the strait. So frankly, right now, many shipping companies do not know what to believe and many are holding off on sailing through the strait. All of this coming as we get brand new information.

Iranian officials have just said that talks between Iran and the U.S. that are scheduled to happen will happen Monday in Pakistan. Now, the president told Bloomberg and Axios he expects a final deal with Iran in the coming days. Part of that deal, sources tell CNN, is that the Trump administration is considering unfreezing, unfreezing $20 billion in Iranian assets, although President Trump just told CBS that's not true. The president also told CBS that the Iranians have, quote, "agreed to everything," end quote, including removing enriched uranium from Iran.

There are obviously still many remaining sticking points, including how long Iran will agree to suspend its uranium enrichment program, as well as how the retrieval of the of Iran's nuclear materials, assuming that actually has been agreed to, how that will take place. Lots to discuss, lots to unpack.

Let's bring in Jason Rezaian, the Washington Post journalist who was arrested and wrongfully imprisoned in Iran for 544 days. And joining me here live in studio is Beth Saner, the former deputy director of National Intelligence.

And Beth, let me start with you, if I may. Are you optimistic that a deal could be struck this weekend, as soon as this weekend? And what do you make of some of the terms being discussed, including potentially unfreezing $20 billion of Iranian assets? Is that a good deal?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Depends on what we get for it, right? So your lead up to this was perfect, right? Clear as mud. We have no really idea about what we're talking about right now. And, you know, if you're talking about 20 billion for something that looks like JCPOA, the former Obama --

[17:05:04]

TAPPER: JC -- Yes, the Obama deal.

SANNER: -- administration deal.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: Then that's not such a good deal because Iran has advanced its program so much. And you know, when we talk about this, we keep talking about this 400 kilograms of 60 percent enriched uranium. But you know, we also have more than 400 kilograms of 20 percent enriched uranium. So you have to -- it's going to be complicated. So I'm actually -- I would say I'm hopeful that we might get a framework deal, you know, kind of a limited big picture --

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: -- statements, but then the devil is absolutely going to be in the details and we'll talk in a, I'm sure a little bit --

TAPPER: Next week.

SANNER: -- more about this. But I think --

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: -- we also, you know, to maybe move into Jason on this to do your job for you, sorry. But I mean, you know, we have to talk about who we're doing this deal with.

TAPPER: Right.

SANNER: And what is it, you know? I think we're doing this deal like for the idea of we're going to have stability, we're going to somehow just like have stability with this group of people. And I think again, we continue to misread what the goals and objectives of this organization or group of people.

TAPPER: Well, that is now my next question for Jason. And we should note, Jason, that Iranian officials have just said in the last minute or so that these talks will be on Monday between the U.S. and Iran. But as to the point that Beth just addressed, who is Donald Trump, who are the Americans dealing with here, this so called more reasonable regime, to use President Trump's language? Are they more reasonable? Are they willing to enter into a deal that gives President Trump everything he wants, including the removal of enriched uranium?

JASON REZAIAN, JOURNALIST, THE WASHINGTO POST: Jake, I think the thing that people need to understand first and foremost is it's the same group of people. Yes, the supreme leader was killed and many other top officials were killed, but they are all part of the same apparatus, adhere to the same ideology, want to defend the existence of the same system.

I think the idea that they might be more amenable to a deal right now is that they've sustained incredible damage, not only to their military, but to civilian infrastructure as well as to the oil and gas infrastructure. So they have a lot of compelling reasons to want to end the kinetic portion of this conflict. But to Beth's earlier point, if the -- if what the Iranians are offering are similar to what the JCPOA was succeeding in doing, it doesn't seem like a particularly major step forward.

And I think the one thing that I always want to harp on in these discussions is, you know, were told this war as a war of liberation for the Iranian people. After a massacre of thousands, potentially tens of thousands of Iranians in January, they don't figure into these conversations at all. And while we're at it, there's six Americans being wrongfully detained in Iran right now. What are we doing for them? Last week, ahead of the first round of talks in Islamabad, the U.S. negotiating team said that they would bring that up in the negotiations. I don't see any sign that happened.

TAPPER: Yes, I was going to ask you about that.

REZAIAN: So --

TAPPER: As somebody formerly detained in Iran, you have a special interest in these six Americans who have been detained. Do you think that that should unequivocally be part of any deal, free these Americans?

REZAIAN: Yes, I think it should be a part of any deal. Anytime we're doing business with an adversarial government or a friendly government, there's a journalist, an American journalist being held in Kuwait right now. You know, we have a lot of leverage, even more leverage in that situation.

So, yes, I do think that that should be -- first and foremost, it's constantly thrown around as no greater priority, the safety and security of American citizens. And I think we -- in the negotiations with the Iranians, a very good way to test whether they are prepared to negotiate.

It would be a good faith offering to let those people out right now.

TAPPER: Yes. Just to elaborate, the Kuwaiti American journalist detained in Kuwait is Ahmed Shihab-Eldin. The Committee to Protect a Journalist said in a statement that it's understood that authorities have charged him with spreading false information, harming national security and misusing his mobile phone. Vague and overly broad accusations that are routinely used to silence independent journalists.

Beth, President Trump also posted on Truth Social today, quote, "Now that the Hormuz Strait situation is over," which, by the way, it isn't. But OK, let's wishcast a little here. "I received a call from NATO asking if we would need some help. I told them to stay away unless they just want to load up their ships with oil. They were useless when needed, a paper tiger."

So it's pretty clear that the Trump NATO relationship does not appear to be improving in any way. Where do you think this is all going?

SANNER: You know, first on the strait, where we are right now is we have some positive words, but then we have the Iranians coming back, different people, but coming back and saying there will be tolls. They do need to check in with the Iranians and they do have to do the route that is determined. So basically it's open under the rules and basic control of the IRGC. That is going to be tested in the next 24 or 48 hours. So it'll be really important to see how this plays out.

[17:10:23]

But like, it cannot at the end of this be that Iran has this additional leverage that they didn't have before.

Now regarding NATO, I mean, I would say that, you know, Starmer and Macron had this big, huge international confab today which included some of the Gulf States. You know, then they released a statement and you do feel like they are a little late to the party.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: You know, it's like, OK. But on the other hand, you actually do need to reopen the main channels, right? We've only had a few ships go through there and so we probably do need their help. So I'm not sure this is completely helpful.

TAPPER: Interesting. All right. Beth Sanner, Jason Rezaian, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

We're following a very situation -- a serious situation right now in the Midwestern United States. Tornadoes are popping up left and right. Traffic cameras picked up this one in Rochester, Minnesota. That's just north of the Iowa state line. Forecasters calling for an intense evening of storms.

We're going to be watching. We'll bring you more on that in a bit. Plus, President Trump is just moments away from taking the stage at a Turning Point USA event in Arizona. Stay with us.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially the young people.

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[17:15:21] TAPPER: Our politics lead now, live pictures from inside that megachurch in Phoenix, Arizona, where any moment now, President Trump is expected to hop to the stage and address a crowd at the Turning Point USA event trying to drum up enthusiasm ahead of the midterm elections in November in a very important battleground state, Arizona. With me now in studio, CNN Senior White House Correspondent Kristen Holmes. In New York, we have with us former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin.

And, Kristen, this was supposed to be similar, this speech to a speech Trump made last night in Vegas to promote his affordability agenda. That's what were told. The president has been, of course, posting a lot on social media about Iran. He attacked us and the New York Times. CNN and the New York Times, saying -- we should be saying a job well done, sir, tip of the hat.

What are your sources telling you about what the president -- what they want the president to say? Because obviously they can't predict.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they certainly want the president to focus on domestic issues. I mean, this is not a crowd turning point. Who wants to talk about the war? I mean, we have our colleague Steve Contorno on the ground there who's been talking to people who are really questioning their support for President Trump all over what's going on in Iran. They voted for no more wars.

And now, of course, we have been at this for six weeks. It seems unlikely that President Trump is not going to talk about Iran when he takes stage there. Just given what we've seen on social media unfolding. And he does seem to be trying to convince the American people, and that will be the same with his base, that it's not supportive of this war, that he has won, that there is a deal in the works, that Iran has given up everything and that in the next couple of days, they'll be signing the papers and everything's going to be over. And that is what that crowd wants to hear.

I mean, they want to hear that this is over and it's time to focus on Americans again. But, of course, the question is going to be what is actually in that deal?

TAPPER: Right.

HOLMES: And what does it look like? And what did Iran agree to? And what did the United States agree to because we're hearing such different things. So he'll likely talk about that. He'll still go down the midterm path, but we know where his focus is right now and he doesn't tend to be able to stick to that teleprompter when his focus is elsewhere.

TAPPER: And Alyssa, it's interesting that this is all taking place in this megachurch given sacrilege spring that we're living through with the Trump administration. His feud with Pope Leo, that AI picture he tweeted, then untweeted of him as Jesus. I could go on, but it's only a two hour show. Because a lot of this is really upsetting his base. ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, but I think it's important to note, like this is the Turning Point audience. A lot of these are evangelical Christians, young people. Evangelicals are never going to lose -- leave Trump. Even though some were critical of him for this post, the evangelical church is so tied in with party politics, they're almost inseparable at this point. What he does risk, though, this past week, the fight with Pope Leo, I see as much more dangerous ahead of the midterms and Trump's overall support.

Catholic voters are a very different animal. They're a much more swingy voter. While they're with Trump on an issue like abortion, for example, they have a very different view on things like refugees and tactics around immigration enforcement. So to me, going to this Turning Point event, that's like a welcome home. This is a very friendly audience, despite, to Kristen's point, their large opposition to the war in Iran.

So this makes sense to show up to sort of this faith community. But it's the Catholic vote that I would be very nervous about going into the midterms.

TAPPER: A lot of Latinos are Catholic, of course, and that's a big battle ground group.

And Kristen, President Trump seems confident that this deal will end. Two things on that. One, that doesn't mean gas prices are going to immediately come down. And two, what do you make of his argument that gas prices are down considering what they had to do to get rid of a nuclear weapon? That's his pitch.

Even though obviously there was no nuclear weapon. But the idea like, oh, people were predicting it would be much worse if went to this war in Iran. He's trying to like change the parameter to a nonexistent measurement.

HOLMES: Right. One that -- the only reason that he even has it to compare to is because we did go to this war in Iran when many people thought that we didn't actually need to do so at this time. Just when it comes to gas prices overall, yes we do believe that as soon as this is over the gas prices will start to come down. But it doesn't just start with going back to where they were. And when you look at the affordability pitch for Republicans that was really what they were leaning into because we still have inflation, we're still seeing those higher prices at the grocery store.

Americans are still feeling pain when it comes to their payments and their bills. So the one thing they were really leaning into in the midterms was look at how low gas prices are. And the idea that we'd get back to those low gas prices is if you ask any expert, unrealistic. So what they're hoping for now is just to start to see something that they can cling on to and highlight about those gas prices. And of course you're going to see Trump and the administration doing all kinds of verbal jujitsu to try and work around how this is not because President Trump went to war with Iran.

[17:20:09] This is just a blip. Everything's going to be even better. But Americans know how they feel when they're at the pump, and that's a really hard thing to try and manipulate with words.

TAPPER: And Alyssa, I mentioned earlier the president attacking the New York Times and CNN. He said in part on Truth Social, quote, "Why don't they just say at the right time, job well done, Mr. President, and start to gain back their credibility," unquote. So, first of all, it's not the job of journalists to say job well done. Second of all, the job's not done.

Third of all, I would be less concerned if I were the president about what we say in the media and more concerned about the fact that 57 percent of respondents, according to the New York Times poll, says they don't approve of how President Trump is handling his presidency. Shouldn't he care more about the poll numbers about the public than, you know, New York Times and CNN?

GRIFFIN: He certainly should. But listen, Donald Trump is still a creature of mainstream media. As much as he loves to bash it, he bashes cable news. He loves to come after CNN and the New York Times. He cares about what they say.

He cares about what their polls say because he knows that viewers are tuning in, they're paying attention to their coverage. And he knows that these polls that we're putting out probably very closely aligned to his internal polls about the midterms. That's just the reality of it. I mean, I remember being with him in the 2018 cycle, and very much what we were seeing about expectations were very similar to what was publicly out there. He knows he's underwater.

He's preparing for, you know, what Obama once called a shellacking in the midterms. And he wants to place blame elsewhere rather than own it. The main thing he needs to be doing right now, and I think everyone around him is telling, focus on affordability, focus on pocketbook issues and get this war with Iran, be able to say that it is over as soon as humanly possible because it is wildly unpopular with his base, but also with the American public for all the reasons that Kristen laid out.

TAPPER: All right, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

President Trump is just moments away from his appearance at this Turning Point USA event in Phoenix. We're going to bring that to you when he starts to speak. Plus, President Trump's Justice Department now taking aim at a prosecutor who was leading the case into one of Trump's perceived political enemies. So what's going on? What happened?

We're going to tell you about this new reporting first on CNN. Stay with us.

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[17:26:34] TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, a story first reported by CNN, the top prosecutor leading an investigation into John Brennan, the Obama era CIA director and current vocal critic of President Trump, that top prosecutor has now been removed from the case. Sources tell CNN that the federal prosecutor resisted pressure to quickly bring charges against Brennan. CNN's Evan Perez is here.

Evan, what is the Justice Department telling you about the move?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they say that this is routine. They say that offices around the country are often trying to effectively allocate resources. They said it's completely healthy and normal to change members of legal teams.

TAPPER: That's not true.

PEREZ: That is not true. This is a higher profile case. This is a seasoned prosecutor. She's one of the top -- has the most experience in that office, someone highly regarded. And as a matter of fact, the reason why she's out of this case was because she has that pedigree.

By the way, she was on the trial team for the man who was convicted of trying to assassinate President Trump at his golf course in Florida. So that was one reason why Trump allies thought that she was the right person to do this case. And what they've discovered instead is that the prosecutors believe that the case is weak and that there is certainly not yet enough evidence to be able to bring this case.

And that is, of course, as you know, Jake, bad news because Pam Bondi just got fired for not making enough progress on the president's retribution list. Todd Blanche is now the acting attorney general, and he wants to keep this job, as you know, permanently.

TAPPER: Yes. So it's not the first time this has happened.

PEREZ: No.

TAPPER: In fact, it's happened worse. There have been really highly qualified, excellent prosecutors, Republicans, conservatives --

PEREZ: Correct.

TAPPER: -- not only removed from cases, but fired altogether for not -- for not following President Trump's wishes to have his political enemies prosecuted as quickly as possible.

PEREZ: Right. Of course, Bondi is the -- is the lead -- is the highest profile one. But Erik Siebert is in the Eastern District of Virginia, was fired. I think we have a list of some of the president's enemies that he's been pushing for some of these investigations. That includes Jim Comey and Letitia James.

Those cases were actually brought and then the charges were ended up being tossed. But still under investigation, of course, is John Brennan. You have Lisa Cook, the Fed governor, you have Jack Smith. You know, there's a number of these people who the Justice Department is looking at because the president says that they need to be charged with something. And the question is, when does that happen?

And does it happen quick enough for Todd Blanche to be able to keep that job?

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thank you so much.

Also on our law and justice lead, a warning from a federal judge, a sitting federal judge who says that Americans are losing the online information war. They're unable to tell truth from misinformation. And this judge is urging Americans, especially young Americans, to act more like jurors when scrolling through their social media feeds. Here now is the judge, Judge Roy Altman, a U.S. District Judge for the Southern District of Florida. He's also the author of the forthcoming book "Israel on Trial," which will be out April 28th.

Judge Altman, thanks so much for being here. So, in your op-ed, you discussed the rise of online anti-Semitism and online extremism, where, quote, terrorism is reframed as resistance, victims are recast as oppressors and atrocities are dismissed as propaganda while unverified claims spread unchecked."

[17:30:10]

So how would your suggestion that people on social media approach their social media feeds not like consumers of news but like jurors trying to figure out what's true and what's not, how would it cut down on the spread of extremist or anti-Semitic or misleading content online?

JUDGE ROY K. ALTMAN, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: So this amazing thing happens when we bring jurors into courtrooms. People who are otherwise very bad at discerning truth from falsehood when they're doing it on their phones at home in their beds come into the courtroom 12 at a time and they sit in a box and then we give them the most complicated and momentous disputes in our society.

Sometimes they're patent cases or antitrust cases or very complicated criminal cases and we throw it all at them. And then sometimes I tell my law clerks wow that's a very hard case. But I am constantly amazed by the extent to which the 12 of them go back into the jury room and come out with precisely the right answer.

And by the way it's not because they're biologically different, it's not because they're psychologically different, they're going to be the same people who will go back to their homes and again be very bad at discerning truth from falsehood on their phones but it's because we human beings for hundreds of thousands of years have evolved to make decisions together to do it with a set of rules a methodology that has been tested over many, many generations.

And that set of rules we call it truth guides or jury instructions. It's a methodology that we know works because we use it where truth telling matters the most in the courtroom where someone's life is at stake. And so what I propose and what I do in the book is I say let's apply that methodology, the methodology that lawyers and judges and juries use every single day in the courtroom all across this country to the six most polarizing accusations in the world the claims that are being made all of them by the way legal claims about the modern state of Israel.

TAPPER: So in a courtroom of course a jury can reference a judge's instructions on how to evaluate evidence. It's a little more challenging for a 16-year-old an 18-year-old on Instagram or TikTok they have to ask not only as jury in your view but also as judge and also they're hearing this stuff sometimes from people they trust even if they shouldn't.

I could name a bunch of podcasters but I don't feel like having my social media feed blow up right now but they're on the right and they're on the left and they're -- they don't know what they're talking about and they're getting clicks because they're saying crazy things.

What should my kids on social media do if they don't know that something is meant to be divisive or misleading or it's only being said for "engagement."

ALTMAN: This is where I think this whole analysis is very useful. We should first of all begin by scrutinizing the incentive structure of the people who are providing us with the message. That's what we do with our jurors. Every single day in the courtroom we ask, OK, this person came in and said that the defendant did it X, Y and Z.

And then we allow a defense lawyer to come and cross-examine and say well isn't it true that you got immunity from the government for the crimes that you committed? And isn't it true that your wife wasn't charged with the offense and that you're testifying for the government as a result of that or if an expert testifies that the plaintiff was injured in the case?

We might have the defense lawyer cross-examine and say isn't it true that you were paid a $100,000 for your opinions in this case. So we should teach our young people the methodology that we learned when we were in civics classes and that we teach our jurors to apply every single day in the courtroom which starts first and foremost by applying reason and common sense to scrutinize the incentive structure of the people who are providing you with the message.

So for example if the message is coming from a foreign government who's a geo-strategic enemy of the United States you should know that and you should think about that.

TAPPER: Yes. Judge come back and talk more about this. It's a fascinating topic and it's one that really concerns a lot of us here on The Lead, the spread of false information about all sorts of topics including the Middle East of course. Thanks again.

[17:34:36]

The breaking news in the Midwest right now. The Midwestern United States a severe weather outbreak. You see the storm on the move there. It's that's around Kansas City, Missouri. We're also starting to see some damage. This one's from an apparent tornado in Stewartville, Minnesota. That's about 25 miles north of the Iowa state line. Parts of houses just shredded. We're going to keep following this story. A lot going on this evening. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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TAPPER: Our Health Lead now, another round of intense questioning for HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. On Capitol Hill today lawmakers pressed the Department of Health and Human Services Secretary on his promotion of medical misinformation. In one of the most hostile moments from today's hearing Democratic Congresswoman Lucy McBath of Georgia scolded RFK Jr. about his past remarks on autism, specifically his claim that autism, "destroys families" and that children with autism have no future.

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REP. LUCY MCBATH (D-GA): Some people with disabilities do need direct care to assist them with activities like going to the bathroom, but that does not mean that they are somehow less than or unable to lead fulfilling and productive lives as you know that is lie.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: And nobody said they were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And nobody said they were, RFK Jr. said. But Secretary Kennedy someone did say they were and it was you.

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[17:40:05]

KENNEDY: Destroys families. And more importantly, it destroys our greatest resource, which are children. These are kids who will never pay taxes. They'll never hold a job. They'll never play baseball. They'll never write a poem. They'll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Today, Congresswoman McBath asked RFK Jr. to apologize for his remarks. He refused, stating that he was specifically talking about profound autism, although that's not what he said. He said autism destroys families. Lawmakers also grilled Kennedy about his anti- vaccine rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SUZANNE BONAMICI (D-OR): So, Secretary Kennedy, does exposing infants and children to measles enhance their health and well-being?

KENNEDY: I've never been anti-vaccine. I've always said I'm not anti- vaccine.

BONAMICI: Mr. Secretary, you have been a longtime voice against vaccination.

KENNEDY: No, I haven't. No, I'm not anti-vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He said he's not anti-vaccine. He's pro-science. Receipts, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective.

And we know, you know, if you've ever compared an unvaccinated kid to a vaccinated kid, and they're completely different. They poisoned an entire generation of American children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: They poisoned an entire generation of American children. Now, in yesterday's hearing, Kennedy, who directed the CDC to stop recommending the combined MMRV shot for toddlers under four, MMRV measles, mumps, rubella, he admitted that the measles vaccine certainly could have saved a six-year-old child who died following the deadly measles outbreak in Texas.

In another hearing this week, Democratic Congresswoman Terri Sewell of Alabama confronted RFK Jr. on his 2024 comments in which he suggested that black children on certain ADHD and other medications should be, "reparented."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TERRI SEWELL (D-AL): You are not a doctor, have no formal medical training, and you've never parented a black child. And yet you are suggesting that the federal government should take black children away from their families and reparent them and send them off to some wellness farm instead of providing them with evidence-based.

KENNEDY: You're just making stuff up.

SEWELL: I am absolutely not making this up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: She was absolutely not making this up. Here is Secretary Kennedy saying this in 2024 in a podcast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: Psychiatric drugs, which every black kid is now just standard put on Adderall, SSRIs, Benzos, which are known to induce violence. And those kids are going to have a chance to go somewhere and get reparented.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: It's been a big week for Secretary Kennedy, along with the marathon of congressional hearings. There is also a new book out titled "RFK Jr.: The Fall and Rise." The book reveals a diary entry from Kennedy that says, "I was standing in front of my parked car on Interstate 684, cutting the penis out of a road killed raccoon, thinking about how weird some of my family members have turned out to be." He added that his kids were waiting patiently in the car during this activity. The book highlights how RFK Jr. sees himself and, of course, his self-awareness makes him so interesting to cover.

[17:43:46]

In our Politics Lead, the big fight for control of Congress, Virginia just days away from a special election that could redefine the very congressional map and tip the balance of power after the midterms this November. I'm going to talk to a candidate now in the race for a district that doesn't even exist yet.

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TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, Olivia Troye, a former advisor to Vice President Mike Pence, announced that she is running for Congress as a Democrat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLIVIA TROYE (D), VIRGINIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: The evil I saw in that White House was staggering. In 2020, I finally said, enough, and they came for me. Trump doesn't scare me. I took him on when it mattered the most, and I'm ready to do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You might recognize Troye from this show and others. She broke from the Republican Party in 2020 over the Trump administration's handling of the COVID pandemic and of course, January 6th. She's now jumping into a crowded race for a Northern Virginia congressional seat that literally does not even yet exist. Olivia Troye joins us now. Thanks so much for being here.

So you're running in the proposed new version of Virginia's seventh congressional district. We've been covering the back and forth on all this. Voters will decide on whether or not this district should exist on Tuesday. What do you say to Democratic voters out there who are considering voting for you in this seventh district and are wary because you were part of the Trump administration? You joined in 2018, and it wasn't as though he wasn't controversial in 2018.

TROYE: Well, I would say this. First off, I mean, I grew up in a conservative Catholic family. But over time, my politics did evolve on whether it was reproductive rights, LGBT rights. These are things that as I aged, I grew slowly apart from the Republican Party. But I'll say this.

In 2016, I did vote for Hillary Clinton, but I was a career intelligence officer. And I believe that national security, when you work in the community, should be nonpartisan, and you should serve for the greater good. I love this country more than anything, and I wanted to continue to serve.

[17:50:01]

And so when Donald Trump took office, that's what I did. And I served every day to the best of my ability. I, you know, I had some challenges. It wasn't easy. I found it pretty horrifying at times. And I had to fight people like Stephen Miller and Russ Vought and Kash Patel in terms of whether it was intelligence products or what they were doing in terms of their extremism and certain things, especially when it came to refugees or Afghan translators. There were a lot of things that I disagreed with.

And ultimately, as you know, in 2020, I had a very public split where I decided to resign my entire career and take a stand for what I believe was right and for the country. And I have been very vocal since then as a Trump critic, especially after January 6th. And I went on and campaigned for Kamala Harris and have been working to elect Democrats since then.

TAPPER: So you in your announcement video, and also we've covered this on The Lead. You said Trump and his allies tried to bankrupt you, threatened to kill you, some of them just the allies, not the President.

TROYE: Yes.

TAPPER: Today, you posted that you proudly wear the badge of MAGA's top enemy. But if you were to win the nomination and also the seat, you would be in Congress. And at least a couple of years, Trump would be President. Would you be willing to work with the Trump administration to get things done?

TROYE: Well, what I would say to that is if they're going to continue with the extremism that I'm seeing and the overreach by a lot of the agencies like ICE, who I believe has become a rogue police force and is causing more damage than good when it comes to local, state and local police communities, law enforcement who are struggling to figure out how they navigate this dynamic.

I've seen it in northern Virginia itself, where they're trying to figure out how they maintain the public trust, which is eroding right now when you have this police force that is causing this strain coming from the federal government. So if they're going to behave that way and do the overreach, I'm also very concerned about this war on Iran that I believe is completely unjustified. I don't think that the intelligence community has backed it.

I'm concerned about how they're conducting things with the national security community, the fact that they've gutted and undermined government institutions and impacted northern Virginia in such a way across the board. These are all the things that I would be questioning and bringing accountability to, and I would be asking and raising serious concerns. TAPPER: So on Tuesday, voters in the Commonwealth of Virginia are going to decide whether or not to redistrict, to make the congressional districts different. It's an unusual mid-decade review, and it's not -- it's being very criticized harshly by not just Republicans, but by Democrats, too, some Democrats. Now, obviously, this follows Texas doing it first. But I think there are a lot of people in both parties who think all of this is crazy. What do you think about these new congressional districts in Virginia?

TROYE: I think that in the situation that we are in right now, in this moment in our country, with the way the Republican Party is behaving and the things that they continue to do across the board, impacting whether it's cutting people's healthcare, targeting Medicare, which many of my family have been on, rely on, and I would say what they're doing in terms of civil rights, privacy rights, freedom of the press, and everything. When you have that, and they are behaving, and they're trying to do this in other states, I think you have to fight. You have to fight and meet them where they are, and I think that -- I hope that people will come out and vote for this in Virginia.

I think this is the moment, and I realize, you know, that many people, they may not feel comfortable with it, but nothing about the Trump administration and what MAGA is doing right now is comfortable, and we have to push back on this.

TAPPER: Olivia Troye, thank you so much.

TROYE: Thank you.

[17:53:29]

TAPPER: President Trump is just moments away from speaking at a Turning Point USA event in Phoenix, Arizona. How will he address today's major developments on Iran? We'll bring you that when he begins talking. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: President Trump has just started speaking at the Turning Point Action USA conference in Phoenix, Arizona. We're going to monitor that. And when he starts saying anything newsy or even just new, we will bring that to you. But for this immediate moment, let's turn to our Health Lead, because we're paging CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's taking your questions today, on the subject of his new special, "The Rise of the Use of Cannabis," that's marijuana, "Among Women." The topic's part of his new special airing Sunday. It's called Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports "Weed8: Women & Weed." So this is the eighth time he's done this.

Sanjay, the first question is from Erica in Canada, who wants to know, what are the short-term and long-term effects on a baby if a mother uses weed while pregnant and while breastfeeding?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me just preface before I answer this question by saying I think this was perhaps the most surprising, even shocking part of our investigation, the idea that women would be using cannabis, marijuana, while pregnant or breastfeeding.

But you know, looking at these studies, I mean, it can be pretty significant, anywhere between 7 to 20% in some studies of women who are doing this. And there's obviously concerns, a couple of big headlines. Cannabis does cross the placenta. It does cross the placenta. That was a big question. Studies have confirmed that cannabis does get concentrated in breast milk. So the dose in breast milk can even be higher than the dose in the bloodstream.

And it's associated with all kinds of harms. I mean, preterm labor, low birth weight, preeclampsia. These studies are hard to do. Admittedly, people aren't forthright about their cannabis use. Oftentimes they are commingling this with other substances, alcohol, tobacco. So it can be tough to figure out what exactly is causing what.

But this is happening out there. Typically, it's a woman who was using cannabis before they got pregnant, maybe for a specific reason like depression or anxiety, and they continue using it. So this was surprising, if not shocking, Jake.

[18:00:09]

TAPPER: And Sanjay, Jodi in New York, I'm sorry, in New Jersey, asks, can marijuana products, specifically those that are edible, be helpful for perimenopause symptoms? How? What's the mechanism, and which symptoms?

GUPTA: Yes, so the short answer here is yes. And this is, this was a big part of the documentary. What inspired this was the idea that women are now outpacing men when it comes to the use of cannabis. And a lot of that growth is happening among women between the ages of 45 and 60. So those are the headlines. And the reason I think women between the ages of 45 and 60 are driving a lot of this growth is because they're looking to this for possible treatment of symptoms of menopause.

So when it comes to sleep, we know THC can be helpful. There have been plenty of studies on this. Also can potentially be helpful for anxiety. I think what was interesting was the idea that THC could have an impact on what is known as the hyper of the brain. That is an area of the brain that controls your temperature regulation. So hot flashes, for example, big concern for women going through menopause. They found that THC could be helpful also for reducing inflammation often associated with it. So early studies, but so far, you know, pretty positive, Jake.

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. You can get more when you watch Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports "Weed8: Women & Weed." It's a Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern here on CNN then on next day on the CNN app.