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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Speaks At Turning Point USA Event In Arizona; New Jersey Transit Tickets For FIFA World Cup Games To Cost $150; DOJ Investigating Swalwell Over Sexual Assault Allegations; Supreme Court Justices Air Grievances In Public; Trump Weighs In On Possibly Replacing Alito, Thomas. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 17, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We're going to go live to President Trump's speaking in Phoenix. Let's take a listen.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: -- is that most of the points are already negotiated and agreed to. You'll be very happy. The USA will get all nuclear dust. You know what the nuclear dust is? That was that white powdery substance created by our B-2 bombers, those great B-2 bombers, late one evening, seven months ago. No money will exchange hands in any way, shape or form.

Iran will be -- and you know how we're going to get the dust, right? Iran -- we were going to take it anyway. But taking it that way is slightly more dangerous. But we were going to get it anyway. But Iran, with the help of the USA, has removed or is removing all of the sea mines, and most importantly, it never agreed, and you'll understand, they will never have a nuclear weapon. They will never have a nuclear weapon.

And somebody said, how are we going to get the nuclear dust? We're going to get it by going in with Iran, with lots of excavators because the B-2s -- remember when fake news CNN said, well, maybe obliteration is too strong a word, obliteration. That's so deep. We need the biggest excavators you can imagine. But we're going to go in together with Iran. We're going to get it and we're going to take it back home to the USA, very simple.

And now that the Hormuz Strait is almost over, I received a call from NATO asking if we would like some help. Thank you very much, NATO. And I told them, I would have liked your help two months ago, but now I really don't want your help anymore because they were absolutely useless when we needed them. But actually we never needed them. They needed us. They need us. They need us so badly.

You know, it's a little bit like if you're a politician, it's hard to believe I'm a politician, but after I won people came up to me, sir, I'd like to make a major contribution to your campaign. And I said, listen, just so you understand, campaign contributions after I won don't count, okay? They don't count. And NATO, after we won, that doesn't count either. It's the same thing, But you have to remember that because we spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year, we spend money, we spend, I would say in many cases, close to a trillion dollars over a couple of years, a trillion dollars to help them, and we're always helping them. And this was just a military excursion. This isn't the big time.

We built a military, so great. I'm so proud of it. It's one of the -- including Space Force. You know, you see all of that. When you see those rockets go on, look up there, the Space Force, we all created Space Force, it didn't exist. We were losing to China and to Russia in space, and now we're so far ahead of them both, you wouldn't believe it.

[18:05:00]

But yesterday, on top of it all, we achieved what everyone said was impossible, an unprecedented ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, and that hasn't taken place in 78 years, 78 years. Our deal with Iran is not in any way tied to Lebanon, but we will make Lebanon great again. I mean, it's about time we -- we've sort of -- the world has forgotten them and they're good people who have lived like hell for a long period of time. And, hopefully, the situation with Hezbollah will get straightened out quickly.

But I want to thank the country of Pakistan and its great prime minister and its great, great field marshall, he is a great field marshall, two fantastic people for helping. They really are terrific people.

And I also want to thank Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait. They've been amazing. They've all helped tremendously. And it took courage for them, not easy. They were living with what they call the bully of the Middle East. They had the bully -- Iran was the bully of the Middle East. They're not the bully anymore.

With the help of everyone here today, this has been by far the most successful first year of any administration in the history of our country, acknowledged by everybody.

To begin with, I ended eight wars, and it may be a little early to say this, but if we add Iran and Lebanon, that will be ten wars ended and many, many millions of lives saved. Think of how many lives we've saved.

Starting on day one, we ended the illegal invasion of America. That's an invasion by criminals, many, many criminals, murderers, drug dealers, prisoners, they emptied out their prisons.

TAPPER: All right, that's President Trump speaking at a Turning Point USA event in Arizona. He said that the Strait of Hormuz situation is pretty much done. He said Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. The U.S. will secure Iran's nuclear material. He called it nuclear dust. Once again, he bashed NATO for not helping out more with the war against Iran.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Islamabad keeping up with the latest in the deal. And, Nic, you heard the president praising not just the prime minister but the field marshall for helping to bring about these peace talks. Tell us more.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. The field marshall has been in Tehran for the last almost three days negotiating with the Iranians and made some progress, believed to be a strong part behind getting the deal in Lebanon done, the one that Israel and Lebanon, or Hezbollah go on a ceasefire, and also credited with helping get the Iranians to then unblock the Strait of Hormuz.

After that -- and that really seemed to be some momentum there in Tehran today, after that, President Trump then took to social media talking about Iran's decision to unblock the Strait of Hormuz. He said the U.S. was going to continue with its blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.

And then you kind of got this pushback on the Iranian side. And I think this is just instructive to understand the divisions that still exist in Iran between the hardliners and those sort of more moderates who are involved in the negotiation. The foreign minister got criticized. The Iranian foreign minister got criticized for his tweet about opening the Strait of Hormuz.

There were all sorts of conditions attached to it where the ships could actually go. They'd have to have the permission of the IRGC. And then the IRGC came out and said, actually, the United States continuing its blockade was actually a violation of the ceasefire and threatened that their own opening of the Strait of Hormuz could change.

That doesn't seem to be the case right now. It does seem that we're on the track towards talks coming up. We are getting from sources here, Iranian sources as well, saying that there will be talks coming up perhaps very early next week. So, there does seem to be progress.

But also there's still a very clear 20 percent of the deal that hasn't been achieved so far. Pakistan's foreign minister today said 80 percent done. The last 20 percent could really be very tough and it will be around some of those core issues President Trump was talking about. He says he's got the right to go in with the Iranians and get out what he calls that nuclear dust, a highly enriched uranium. We are hearing from Iranian sources saying that is just not the case. So, the Iranians are pushing back on what some of the president is claiming.

TAPPER: All right. Nic Robertson in Islamabad, Pakistan, thank you so much.

[18:10:00]

Here with me now is the British ambassador to the United States, Christian Turner. And we should note for folks not familiar with you, and you're new here, and I believe this is your first interview with American media in your new position.

CHRISTIAN TURNER, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: It is very good to be with you, Jake. Good evening. It's my first time with CNN and good to be here in the studio.

TAPPER: So, here's the thing, you also were the U.K. ambassador to Pakistan, and as undersecretary of state, you also were the key negotiator for Iran on the Iran issue. So, you have a lot of expertise here.

First of all, I mean, there's a lot I want to ask you about, but one of them is you heard President Trump making his claims to the supportive audience saying Iran has agreed to turn over all nuclear dust, which is what was obliterated a year ago. We heard Nic Robertson say the Iranians are disagreeing with that. He said, no money will be exchanged, meaning the $20 billion in assets of Iranians presumably will not be turned over. The Iran and U.S. will be removing the sea mines from the Strait of Hormuz and the Hormuz situation is almost over.

What's your reaction to that news? I don't know how much of that is actually fully baked, but that's what he's claiming.

TURNER: So, look, I really think, Jake, it feels like a breakthrough day and, you know, the talks, as Nic was just reporting, last weekend appeared to cover a lot of ground in a short space of time and 21 hours of continuous negotiation. I think from the readout I've had from the vice president and his team is that, yes, about 20 percent remained to be done.

And I think to see today the Lebanon ceasefire deal being done, indications that the Iranians are saying, yes, the straits are now fully open, that really, we are all hoping, paves the way for a further round that locks in that final --

TAPPER: But it's always the last 20 percent, right? Isn't that always?

So, I mean, what would be in that 20 percent, the Iranian nuclear material destroyed during last June's bombing raids, what else?

TURNER: I think two things really. The two things this will settle on are, one, that stockpile of enriched uranium. It's the one -- the stuff we're really worried about is the highly enriched, but the president has been very clear. He wants all of that material sorted and dealt with. And then second, it's Iran's commitment never to return to a nuclear program.

So, you've got to negotiate those two things. And on the other side, Iran will be looking for economic benefit in return. That is the center of a deal. There were talks around that with Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner in Geneva in January, of course, and negotiations I was part of with the E3 when we led to the snapback of sanctions last, what, three years running into last summer.

So, I broadly think that there is what we would call a ZOPA, a zone of possible agreement. There's a deal that you could do in there. And we all want to support American efforts to get it done because it's vital we get these straits opening.

TAPPER: So, President Trump seemed to be reading from the teleprompter when he talked about these points. I'm not criticizing him for that. My only reason for noting that is that he said no money will be exchanged.

Letting the Iranians have $20 billion of their frozen assets technically would not be exchanging money, right? Am I reading too much into that, do you think, or --

TURNER: Look, I'm not close to the detail of how that would work because I'm not party to these negotiations. Clearly, one of the core things the Iranians will be asking for is for an economic lifeline. In effect, we have all been working to keep economic sanctions and pressure on Iran for many, many years. The U.K. has had something like over 550 sanctions against individuals and entities, and has led the way in Europe to keep that pressure up.

I was talking to Secretary Bessent this week with our chancellor, Rachel Reeves, about -- I think Secretary Bessent called it Economic Fury, Operation Economic Fury, to keep that pressure up. So, I think one has to be clear is any benefit can only accrue to Iran once we assure we've got the things we want, which is an end to their nuclear program and the Straits of Hormuz open. And that has to be without any tolling, any restrictions. Freedom of navigation is vital in this.

TAPPER: You heard the president bringing up NATO in a now familiar refrain of his badmouthing NATO, badmouthing the alliance, which includes the U.K. I don't need to remind you saying now countries, you know, in NATO are offering to help when it comes to keeping the Strait of Hormuz safe for unfettered travel. He said, I don't want your help. We had an expert, former deputy national intelligence director telling us that that's unwise, that the U.S. does need NATO's help.

First of all, what was your response when he brought up NATO and the crowd started booing? Because that doesn't come out of nowhere, that comes from President Trump expressing concerns and, frankly, trashing NATO and the alliance for years and years. What's your response when you hear Americans booing NATO?

TURNER: Well, look, first of all, I think -- I'll say something you might not expect me to, which is to praise President Trump's leadership on demanding the burden-sharing of Europe on NATO.

TAPPER: No, I'm actually used to Europeans doing that because it's true.

TURNER: It is true.

TAPPER: It's an achievement of his, absolutely.

[18:15:00]

TURNER: You're exactly right. And it was a fair challenge. And the response since I sat right behind him in the NATO council chamber, and I think it was 2018 when he first made that challenge, we have now seen a doubling of European spend on NATO since 2014 for European procurement. So, our buying of weapons for the first time since the Second World War is more than America. That might worry American arms industry, but, you know, we are now producing and procuring more weapons in Europe.

For the U.K.'s part we're on a track to 3.5 percent by 2035. 5 percent in total is the collective pledge at the Hague Summit. So, the president has driven that U.K. figures --

TAPPER: Yes. But now he's talking about NATO being a paper tiger and how the U.S. doesn't even -- shouldn't even be part of it.

TURNER: Of course, one of the things we should emphasize is that NATO is a defensive alliance. It is there for our shared protection. And only one time in NATO's history has Article five been triggered.

TAPPER: After 9/11.

TURNER: After 9/11.

So, look, I think. It's important that together, what you'll hear from ambassadors like me, from leaders in Europe, from Mark Rutte, who has been so solid on this, is we get the need to step up and we are doing it. What you are seeing is this extraordinary rise in defense spends to meet this shared challenge.

The other thing I would emphasize is that what we've seen today in Paris is effort from -- it's been led by my prime minister, Keir Starmer, and the French president, Emmanuel Macron, but it is to really lean into the president's ask on the Straits of Hormuz.

So, once this blockade is done, once this deal is done, which we're all hoping it will, we will then still need to reassure shipping that they can get through the strait. How do we do that? Well, we got 51 countries, leaders from across the world today, South Korea, Japan, Africa, Asia, the Gulf, to say, we are committed to do that.

We are not going to accept, as I said, tolls and restrictions in the strait. That is going to lead to a collective military mission for demining, escorts, intelligence, command and control that I hope we'll now be able to take over seamlessly and we're doing it in coordination with our U.S. friends once this deal is done.

TAPPER: Before you go, I need to ask you, because King Charles and Queen Camilla are set to visit the U.S. in just about two weeks. The king's going to speak before Congress. He's going to attend a state dinner at the White House. My invitation must have been lost in the mail. But what --

TURNER: We haven't sent them out yet. Don't worry, Jake.

TAPPER: Okay. Well, still, what do you anticipate the king's mission will be here, especially when he meets with U.S. leaders? What is he going to be talking about?

TURNER: So, look, it plays in a sense to the NATO point we've just been discussing. The ties between us are so deep and enduring. This is a celebration between the American people and the British people in their 250th year. The king, of course, sits above politics constitutionally. So, a chance for him to visit and celebrate this extraordinary birthday is what we want to be focusing on.

We had, you might put it a small disagreement, 250 years ago in 1776.

TAPPER: There was another one in 1812 also.

TURNER: And there've been a few others since, but that's the point.

TAPPER: You burned down our White House.

TURNER: Only once have we burned down the White House. I think --

TAPPER: The king won't do it again?

TURNER: The king won't enjoy being in East Room and looking at the new ballroom site. But the point is we will want to build above that, show that even though we have differences, the economic ties we have, we're the largest investor in 21 states, $430 billion of trade growing at 4 percent, our deep security intelligence ties, all of that with those people links, that's what we want their messages to be celebrating for this wonderful birthday.

TAPPER: U.K. Ambassador Christian Turner, an honor having you here, sir, thank you so much. See you soon, I hope. See you soon.

TURNER: I look forward to being back. Thank you.

TAPPER: President Trump is speaking now still at a Turning Point USA event in Arizona. Ahead of his speech, CNN caught up with some of his supporters for their thoughts on the war with Iran. Can he convince them that this is in fact what they voted for?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: And we're back. We're continuing to monitor President Trump's live remarks at a Turning Point USA event in Phoenix, Arizona. He claimed Iran has agreed to forfeit all of its, quote, nuclear dust to the United States in these current negotiations, though Iranian sources dispute that with CNN.

Joining us now, Congressman Carlos Gimenez, Republican from Florida. Congressman, we're hearing different things between the red lines the administration is drawing in these negotiations what the Iranians say they're willing to agree to, not surprisingly for any peace negotiation until it's agreed to. People are talking about different things. How do you think these talks will go next week?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): Look, I think that there are some must haves that we got to have, and one of them is we need to have that nuclear material one way or the other, and also a guarantee -- not just a guarantee from Iran but also a way to verify that Iran is not starting a nuclear program, especially if this regime somehow survives. I don't trust this regime at all.

And so part of it has to be the regime is going to stay in place that, at any time, at any place of our choosing, we can go to any place in Iran to verify that that a nuclear program isn't being started by Iran.

Second thing is you have to have open commerce through the Straits of Hormuz. That is a must have. And so those are two must haves, and I'm sure there're some other things that the president wants from Iran. The problem that I think that we're seeing is that who's really in charge in Iran, all right? And so, you know, we haven't seen the ayatollah in a while. And so is he in charge or is he alive? And who's calling the shots?

And there may be different factions working here in Iran, some telling us, yes, we're willing to do that, and then some others saying, no, we're not willing to do that. We won't know until we get into full- fledged negotiations in Pakistan.

TAPPER: So, sources tell CNN that the Trump administration is considering, just considering the unfreezing of $20 billion in Iranian assets as part of the negotiations. President Trump recently said in the speech he's giving right the second that no money, no -- there will be no exchange of funds. But that's not technically the same thing as unfreezing Iran's assets itself.

[18:25:03]

Although we should note that President Trump and lots of Republicans criticized the Obama administration for a $400 million cash delivery to Iran the same day as a nuclear deal. The president, current president, President Trump, tweeted back then, our current incompetence Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was the one who started talks to give $400 million in cash to Iran. Scandal.

What is your reaction to this part of potential new deal? We just heard the U.K. ambassador basically suggesting, and I'm paraphrasing him, but basically suggesting that any such unfreezing of assets maybe could come, but only if Iran agrees to everything that the U.S. wants.

GIMENEZ: Yes, I agree with the ambassador that it has to be not only an agreement, but over a period of time where we actually see them carrying out the things that they agreed to. Like I said, I don't trust this regime, and so I wouldn't turn over one dime of their money until it's demonstrated through action that Iran is doing the things that they have agreed to. And then it is their money, and so I understand that, but now we have the leverage and I don't think we should be giving that up at all.

TAPPER: CNN's Steve Contorno caught up with some Trump supporters before the start of the speech in Arizona. Here's what one of them had to say about the war in Iran. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMIAH BROSOWSKE, TURNING POINT EVENT ATENDEE: I think, ultimately, he is a populist president, so I think the war isn't a populist issue. So, hopefully, we're able to get out of that and, hopefully, we get back to affordability, right? I think we voted for, like you saw the stickers all the time, right, we're okay with mean tweets as long as we get low gas prices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, he was saying there that the war is not a populist issue even though they want a populist president. The AAA national gas average today is $4.8 per gallon, $4.9 cents per gallon in your home state of Florida, $4.62 cents in Arizona where the president's speaking today.

How worried are you about any fractures in support for President Trump and the Republican Party over these two agenda items that he ran on, lowering gas prices, lowering prices, in general, and no foreign wars?

GIMENEZ: Well, number one, on lowering the gas prices, the prices of gas today are still below the height of the Biden administration, when the Biden administration was waging full-out war against fossil fuels in this country. Can you imagine if we'd actually followed through with that? We'd still be energy deficient.

We'd have to be importing our gas and oil. Our gas prices would be shooting through the roof. Thank God that President Trump said, no, we're going to drill and we're going to become not only energy independent, we're going to become energy dominant.

So, look, I have faith that once this conflict is over, gas prices are going to come down like a rock and really fast and get under $3 a gallon. We have other things that we've done in the House to put more money in Americans' pockets. They're seeing the results of that now through their tax returns is 11 percent higher tax returns through the average American family now than last year, probably the highest rates of return in their history. And so those are tangible results that we've made.

But I also have to remind people why we're here. The reason that we're here and the reason we have all these prices and the high prices is the unbelievable inflation rate during the Biden administration, all right? And so now what we're trying to do is bring it down, all right? And that's going to take a little bit of time. We have to convince the American people of that.

As far as populists and not getting into a foreign war, look, it's America first. And if President Trump is able to get Iran to stop building a nuclear weapon, not to seek to be a nuclear power and to bring it back into, you know, the community of nations, they're an outlier right now, that's a huge benefit to America. It's a huge benefit to us now, and more so to our children and grandchildren that aren't going to have to fight this battle, you know, when they're grown up. And so I have no problem with what the president is doing right now.

TAPPER: All right. Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it.

Would you pay $150 for a train ticket to travel nine miles? Would you pay $80 for a bus ticket to travel that same distance? World Cup fans may not have a choice in just a few weeks. The ridiculous fees are adding up, that story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our combined Sports Lead and Money Lead, sticker shock for FIFA World Cup fans planning to attend matches at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. A round trip train ticket from New York to New Jersey, it's going to cost you $150. The usual price, about $13. There's a limit on how many train tickets New Jersey Transit is selling per match, only 40,000. So, maybe you think about a shuttle bus that will cost you $80. And you can't drive yourself. Parking at the stadium is simply not allowed.

CNN's Brynn Gingras reports from MetLife on the sudden transit price hike as fans spend thousands just to attend one single game.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): World Cup excitement is at fever pitch. With less than two months until kickoff, fans more and more feeling sticker shock.

You had a big reaction when I said over a hundred.

THATZ SUNDARAM, HOBOKEN, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Yes. Yes, but that's insane.

GINGRAS: $150, that's not the price of a ticket to a match in New Jersey. That's how much it will cost to get there and back from New York City. The price tag announced today by state officials.

KRIS KOLLURI, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NJ TRANSIT: This is no ordinary event. In order to move 40,000 people and to pay for the cost of $6 million, we have to charge $150.

GINGRAS: Normally, the ticket for that nine-mile ride is about $13. Officials say, because of heightened security, there will be no parking for fans at the stadium, so public transit will be the best way to get to the games and partly why the cost is so high.

[18:35:07]

MAX LEVINE, NEW YORK RESIDENT: As a consumer, it'll push people away from going and I don't think it's fair to overcharge for that reason.

SUNDARAM: One of the reasons we have public transportation to be able to go to these things without having to pay extra.

GINGRAS: New Jersey's governor taking out her own frustrations on FIFA, the governing body of the World Cup.

GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): FIFA is providing $0 for transportation to the World Cup, zero.

GINGRAS: Promising to not let everyday commuters shoulder the cost, in a statement, FIFA responded saying in part, FIFA is not aware of any other major event previously held at New York New Jersey Stadium where organizers were required to pay for fan transportation.

There are other options for fans, but, again, not cheap. A shuttle bus from New York City will cost $80. And you see MetLife Stadium there. Well, we're across the street at the American Dream Mall where there will be a number of parking spots reserved if you must drive, but they'll cost at least $225. And that price, well, it's expected to also go up.

SUNDARAM: and you pay another $100 for your popcorn and your hot dog as well. So, it's going to be expensive, but I think ticket is expensive as is.

GINGRAS: It is. Right now, a top tier ticket for one of the seven qualifying games at New York New Jersey Stadium start at $1,800. The final, that's pricing out at more than $16,000 per ticket.

ALEXIS COLUCCI, JERSEY CITY, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: It's not even worth it to me, because if I can't get into Penn Station, how am I going to get to -- and you can't drive to the Meadowlands. So, what am I going to do? And also like the ticket prices, so it's just not even worth it.

GINGRAS: You're not even looking?

COLUCCI: Nope.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (on camera): Yes, Jake, she says she's just going to go to a bar. That is her only option.

Now, there are other U.S. host cities, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Kansas City, that are not jacking up their transit fares. The way New Jersey officials explain that is they say, in these cities, the stadiums are within the city limits, and therefore fans have more transportation options. Jake?

TAPPER: Ah, Jersey. Brynn Gingras outside MetLife Stadium, thank you so much.

The breaking news in the Midwestern United States tonight, a severe weather outbreak. New video shows another tornado in Minnesota, just north of Iowa. Stay with CNN for coverage of this major weather event unfolding tonight. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: To politics now, the Justice Department has launched an investigation into now former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He resigned from Congress Monday of this week amid multiple allegations of sexual assault and more. He also suspended his campaign for governor of California. Swalwell denies any legal wrongdoing. He vowed to fight what he describes as the serious false allegations.

Joining us now is Cheyenne Hunt. She's a Democratic influencer and former candidate. One of the first allegations about the former congressman was shared on her platform. It's actually how I first learned about the seriousness of the allegations some people were making.

So, Swalwell's downfall was pretty swift. Only Cesar Chavez comes to mind as something that was as quick. In less than a week, he went from the frontrunner or a frontrunner in the California gubernatorial race, to exiting not just that contest, but Congress. Walk us through your view of how it all played out on your end as survivors came to you with their stories?

CHEYENNE HUNT, INFLUENCER, BROUGHT ATTENTION TO SWALWELL ALLEGATIONS: It was surreal, Jake, truly surreal. So, my close personal friend, Annika Albrecht, reached out to me 17 days ago now and disclosed that she had an experience of sexual harassment with the congressman and that it had altered the entire trajectory of her career, and that she knew that there were others, and that she had heard on the Hill that there were NDAs.

I worked on the Hill. I had heard rumors for years that Swalwell was a creep, but this was beyond what I knew. She asked me to use my platform to make a video, and I did. Within hours, I was getting flooded with direct messages from women who wanted to tell me their stories and they all thought that they were alone.

I was on the phone with women who were as young as 18 years old talking about being harassed as interns, and then I was hearing stories of sexual assault. And I realized that this was much bigger than any of us knew and that we were going to have to assemble a team. And I have to give credit to the investigative team at CNN, who we worked with really closely and opted to bring these women to --

TAPPER: Pamela and Allie and the team, amazing work.

HUNT: Yes, absolutely amazing and great rapport with these survivors. And they built that trust and I was just thrilled to be able to be a conduit for that trust and to say, you can come here and your anonymity will be protected. We connected them with pro bono legal counsel, so they knew their rights and, you know, I'm glad we did too. And those lawyers were incredible because Swalwell's team definitely tried to intimidate them and tried to keep them silent, but they were brave and they moved forward and here we are.

TAPPER: And so you alluded to something, which is that it was something of an open secret that he was considered, Swalwell, to be, for want of a better term, a womanizer, to hit on women. What I had -- I'd never heard any specifics, but that was certainly his reputation, same with Matt Gaetz, I might note.

HUNT: Right.

TAPPER: What I had never heard the more serious allegations of harassment, of him doing this within his own staff, and then obviously sexual assault, rape are serious allegations that he denies. What is the atmosphere like on Capitol Hill, in general? How common is this kind of alleged behavior?

HUNT: Well, I don't think it's common for people to be fully sexually assaulting women, especially not at the rate and scale that we saw with Congressman Swalwell.

That being said, the Hill is a really unique environment that is ripe for exploitation. You have congressmen who are shining stars that you see on your television that are imbued with all of this authority. And then the Hill is staffed by young people, really young people, and they're hungry and they're ambitious, and they're trying to catch their big break. And that power dynamic is just dangerous, frankly.

And then you add in the fact that it's incredibly hard to report these incidents that there are rules and the Congressional acts that have been passed, like in 2018, put rules in place to protect some of these women, and yet they're not well-enforced.

[18:45:02]

And House ethics investigations are notoriously useless and slow. And it's a really intimidating process to go through. And so, there is no meaningful recourse.

TAPPER: Are there any other members of Congress or others that you're looking into hearing stories about?

HUNT: Yeah, and I don't think you would necessarily be surprised. Some of them are kind of publicly sweating on television right now. And we are hearing

things and absolutely looking into it and working with women.

TAPPER: Do you feel proud of the work you did?

HUNT: I'm grateful that I was trusted. It's incredible to get a DM from somebody revealing something that's really traumatic, that could threaten their career if they came forward, and they trusted me to advocate for them. And that's a true privilege, and I'm proud of them for putting their necks out to save other women from what was likely to come. And I'm incredibly proud now to see that this is going beyond Capitol Hill, that these women that we worked with together, it started as three girls in a group chat, and now we've sparked a movement.

People are talking about a reckoning and a #metoo part two, and I'm excited to be able to be a part of this work.

TAPPER: I don't want to denigrate the word influencer because I know it means a lot, especially for your generation, but I think you are an advocate, and I think that's a word you should embrace. And thank you so much for trusting us here at CNN with the stories.

Cheyenne Hunt, thank you so much.

HUNT: Thank you. TAPPER: The usually private U.S. Supreme Court justices are now, in

some instances, squabbling in public. Is this the new normal or just a temporary lapse in decorum? Our special Supreme Court panel is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: The U.S. Supreme Court justices this week are doing something fairly rare. They're airing some dirty laundry in public.

Here's Justice Clarence Thomas slamming what he sees as the dangers of Wilsonian, Woodrow Wilson progressivism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Progressivism seeks to replace the basic premises of the Declaration of Independence, and hence our form of government. It holds that our rights and our dignities come not from God, but from government. It requires of the people a subservience and weakness, incompatible with the constitution, premised on the transcendent origin of our rights. Progressivism, in other words, is retrogressive

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:50:03]

TAPPER: Some progressives taking issue with those comments. Those comments came the same day that his fellow justice, Sonia Sotomayor, issued a rare public apology for what she called hurtful comments about her colleague, Justice Brett Kavanaugh.

Joining us now, two authors on this topic, Supreme Court, James Rosen, author of "Scalia", and Sarah Isgur, author of "Last Branch Standing", two excellent books, both of them about the Supreme Court.

I'm holding them up. You want to show them? Are you there? Okay.

Scalia's Supreme Court years, 1986 to 2001 and "Last Branch Standing" is potentially surprising, occasionally witty journey inside todays Supreme Court. Different but on the same topic. And we're taking the opportunity of this news to have them on the show.

JAMES ROSEN, AUTHOR, "SCALIA": Thanks.

TAPPER: Sarah, let's start with Justice Thomas's comments. What did you make of them? Obviously, he's talking about Wilsonian progressivism, but there are progressives out there who took some offense.

SARAH ISGUR, EDITOR, SCOTUSBLOG: Look, this is like a 100-year experiment were talking about. And it wasn't partizan. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive. The eugenicist. Oliver Wendell Holmes was a progressive.

This was about replacing Congress, who they thought, you know, were sort of dum-dum rubes with experts. And the point is that this has caused congress to stop doing its job, which is why we have so much pressure now on the Supreme Court. They're the last word when we should be blaming Congress.

TAPPER: And, James, listen to Justice Thomas, another comment he made. He also made this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS: When the court that dealt with differences as friends, as we respected each other and I don't know how that civility. I don't know how you bring it back in the current environment with social media and name calling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And so, Justice Thomas, they're kind of longing for a day of when the Supreme Court was friendlier to each other. I should note, wrong book, that Scalia and Ruth Bader Ginsburg famously embodied what he's talking about, that kind of civility, even though they disagreed ferociously.

ROSEN: That's right. This is what William F. Buckley Jr. used to call trans ideological friendships, and I'm sure they still take place on the Supreme Court. But you take those comments from Justice Sotomayor. She called them hurtful. She also recognized that the words she used were inappropriate because she was suggesting that Justice Kavanaugh doesn't have empathy with Latinos.

And the truth is, this is the real divide on the court. It's not between conservatives and liberals. It's between those judges and justices who value the original meaning of the Constitution and various statutes, and those judges and justices who think they should be allowed to expand the meaning of an existing legal text like the constitution or what have you. And if you believe in original meaning of the text, it doesn't matter whether you have empathy as a judge or not.

What only the only thing that matters is whether you're adhering to the actual text and the meaning of the law as it carried when it was enacted.

TAPPER: So let's talk about that because she issued this apology for saying this on April 7th about Kavanaugh. She said, "I had a colleague in that case who wrote, you know, these are only temporary stops. This is from a man whose parents were professionals and probably doesn't really know any person who works by the hour." You know, she said, as James noted that the comments were inappropriate. She regrets them.

Were you surprised by her mea culpa?

ISGUR: No. I actually predicted that she would end up apologizing. Sometimes you say something in public and it doesn't come out quite right. Justice Sotomayor has cared a great deal about civility. She was one of the first justices to really welcome Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Barrett to the court after their contentious confirmation hearings. It doesn't mean she doesn't mean what she said in terms of how upset she is about the outcome. She's talked about going back to her chambers and crying, whereas Justice Kagan goes back and punches a wall sometimes.

But she really does care about civility. She does road shows with these other justices. I just don't think she meant to say that.

TAPPER: And, James, there have been questions over whether Justices Thomas and Alito will retire while President Trump is still in office, giving the president another chance to cement his legacy and have, what, that would be five Supreme Court justices. I don't know if any president has ever done that.

President Trump was actually asked about this, that -- this week. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, you know, there's a theory, you reach a certain age and you give up your seat to a -- if you have the president, you know, the average is like 40 years. It's a long time. So that your ideology, your policies, your everything would be of the kind that we like but it's probably not easy to give up for people. You know, they reach a certain age. Ginsburg could not do it.

(ENDD VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you think?

ROSEN: I don't think we will see either Justice Thomas or Justice Alito retire anytime soon. They both consider they're at the top of their game. And there's some momentous cases coming up. And I think a lot of people think that Justice Thomas, for example, is motivated by if -- he just serves until May of 2028, he'll become the longest serving justice.

But in fact, I think he's motivated by a desire certainly to continue sitting. But when he was confirmed, he said, the liberals have tortured me for 43 years. Now, I'm going to make their life miserable for 43 years. That will keep him on the court until 2034, Jake.

[18:55:01]

TAPPER: What do you think?

ISGUR: I agree that I don't think we'll see either retire, but watch for the White House to start offering maybe some sweetener to the deal for Justice Alito, maybe some promises or public statements over who they might appoint to replace him, like one of his former clerks currently on a circuit court.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you, go out and get the books. Appreciate it.

In our pop culture lead, you probably know him from his iconic performance as shady lawyer Saul Goodman in "Breaking Bad". And then, of course, the sequel show "Better Call Saul".

Now, in his latest film, Bob Odenkirk is no longer providing legal advice, but rather laying down the law. His new movie, "Normal", features Odenkirk taking on the role of an interim sheriff in a small town called Normal, which, as it turns out, is anything but. Here's a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Death comes for us all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a police scanner you got? Are you keeping tabs on me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a hell of an armory

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She catch that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. It's my one trick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think of our little town?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Its charming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, Bob Odenkirk.

Bob, congrats on the film. Exciting, action packed, thrilling start to finish. I have to say, most of us know you or some of us know you from all the way back from Mr. Show. You know, the world of comedy.

BOB ODENKIRK, ACTOR, WRITER AND PRODUCER: Yeah.

TAPPER: Then you had a kind of a comedic role, but not it changed, right? Saul Goodman and then became a dramatic role and now a completely new genre action. How did this all happen?

ODENKIRK: Well, I don't know. It's Hollywood. Anything can happen.

I just had a notion because "Better Call Saul" played all around the world that if I could do a movie that would play around the world of movie action, does that. And I was willing to train. So, I said to my manager, hey, is there anybody who wants to write me an action movie? And we found Derek Kolstad, one of the great action writers in in the world. He wrote John Wick. He wrote "Nobody". And now he wrote "Normal".

TAPPER: So. Right. I mean, "Nobody" and "Nobody 2", both of which are great. That's your first entree into action. Yeah. And I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but usually the action stars that were used to are usually like Arnold or Jason Momoa or --

ODENKIRK: Yeah. TAPPER: And you -- you're -- you're fit, but you're normal.

ODENKIRK: I'm a regular guy.

TAPPER: Yeah. You're normal, right?

ODENKIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I trained with the best stunt people in the world for years. And I've learned the very basics. And we designed fights that I can do. And in "Normal", I play a sheriff and I'm fighting in a kitchen. I'm fighting in a hardware store. I'm fighting in places that you recognize.

I'm not in space. I don't grab on to planes and go up into the air. I just never quit.

TAPPER: It makes it more believable in a way.

ODENKIRK: Yeah, well, I think what makes it believable is I fall down all the time and we leave it in. We leave it in the film. I don't think Tom Cruise is letting them leave his slip ups in mission impossible, but when I actually in this film "Normal", I fall down twice when I'm fighting. And we left it in because I like to play a vulnerable hero, somebody who is actually getting hurt when he gets hit and who is getting slowly, slowly beaten down but never quits.

TAPPER: So, Derek Kolstad, with your collaborator --

ODENKIRK: Yes. And Ben Wheatley, the director, a great director who's made numerous action films and he brings to normal all these genre feelings. So, it's kind of got some comedy through the whole movie. It's got suspense for about a half hour, then it turns into an action film, and then it kind of turns into a horror film.

You know, "Weapons" is a great horror film from last year, and those horror film moments that strange feeling of something bad's going to happen and then something bad happens that is ludicrous and big, and you can only laugh. We have a lot of those moments in "Normal".

TAPPER: Is it tougher working in comedy or action? I mean, I have a suspicion.

ODENKIRK: Oh, I don't know. I mean, I -- no, drama is the hardest thing. Action is fun. Action is choreography. Action is a -- a new area for me, but I've been doing it now for about five years, six years. And I've gotten more comfortable in there.

But I love comedy so much. It's still my go to place. And there's a lot of comedy in "Normal" because of that, and also because of the writer and director.

TAPPER: Bob, it's a great film. Congratulations. Thanks so much for joining us.

ODENKIRK: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", we're going to have Energy Secretary Chris Wright, going to talk about the Strait of Hormuz and all the rest. Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on CNN.

Until then, you can follow me on Facebook and Instagram, threads, X, and on TikTok @jaketapper. Don't forget Bluesky. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. Take it away, Erin.