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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Secret Service Briefs House Oversight Committee On White House Correspondents' Dinner Shooting; Powell Will Remain On Fed Board Until DOJ Probe Is Over; Two Jewish Men Stabbed In Terrorist Attack In London; Families Of Tumbler Ridge Mass Shooting Victims Are Suing OpenAI; Supreme Court Limit Reach Of The Voting Rights Act; Only Conservative Justices At State Dinner Honoring King Charles; Is The MAGA Coalition Crackling In A Key Battleground? Aired? 5-6p ET

Aired April 29, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:17]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate all of you joining us today. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Don't go anywhere. The Lead anchored today by Brianna Keilar starts right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Did the Federal Reserve chairman just set himself up for a new face off with President Trump? The Lead starts right now.

A defiant Jerome Powell vowing to stay at the Federal Reserve as a board member once his term as chairman ends next month. The first outgoing chairman to do so since 1948. How this likely pits him yet again against President Trump.

Plus, the decision from the U.S. that critics say chips away at the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act. The potential impact of today's opinion on the 2026 fight for congressional control. Senator Raphael Warnock will be here to discuss.

But first, the key briefing just moments ago on Saturday's shooting incident at the White House Correspondents' Dinner as investigators look at security in place before a gunman stormed through the hotel lobby.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Brianna Keilar for Jake Tapper. And we start in our Law and Justice Lead. Today, the Secret Service director has briefed the House Oversight Committee on Saturday's White House Correspondents' Dinner shooting where a gunman sprinted past security allegedly intending to assassinate President Trump and top members of his administration.

This briefing coming as a court filing today, reveals these new images of the suspect and his extensive arsenal in a selfie that he allegedly took shortly before the attack. The filing also says a Secret Service officer saw the shotgun wielding suspect fire his weapon towards stairs that led to the hotel ballroom where the dinner was held. At the same time, the Washington Post reviewed a higher quality

version of security camera footage than what President Trump posted to social media.

According to the Post's analysis, that higher quality video does not show the suspect firing a weapon in the four seconds it depicts of him entering the doorway and running through the security checkpoint before moving out of the surveillance camera's view.

The Post says this footage does show a U.S. Secret Service agent draw his gun within seconds of the suspect's arrival and fire at least four shots in his direction. So there are still many unanswered questions about the timeline of this attack and how it unfolded.

And in addition to the Oversight Committee's briefing on this shooting today, we're also learning the panel will interview former Attorney General Pam Bondi one month from Today, as part of its Jeffrey Epstein investigation.

The committee had pushed to hear from Bondi about how the Justice Department handled the Epstein case files under her leadership. A bipartisan group of lawmakers initially subpoenaed her over the department's failure to release all of the files as compelled by law.

But once Bondi was ousted, the DOJ argued that she could no longer appear in her official capacity and would not sit for the previously scheduled deposition despite the fact that the subpoena named her directly.

Now Bondi will sit for a transcribed interview instead of a deposition under oath. She will be reminded, however, that making false statements to Congress is still subject to criminal prosecution.

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He's the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, and he just got out of this Secret Service briefing.

Congressman, what can you tell us about what you've learned? How did this briefing go?

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Well, first, we of course, thank the director and the incredible men and women of the Secret Service. They obviously did a great job in protecting not just the president, but other administration officials that were there.

I think, look, obviously oversight is important in this moment. I know that the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies have come out and kind of reassured the public that they believe that there were the right security measures put in place. We heard that actually directly from Kash Patel, the FBI director.

But there's still concerns. And I think something that I shared with the director is that we can always, I think, assess and do a better job. And the fact that obviously this gunman was so close, got past that first security checkpoint is concerning. We are living in an era of political violence. There were numerous members of Congress there, including Cabinet officials on top, of course, of the president and the vice president. And so we're encouraging the Secret Service to continue investigating and to ensure that these large events ideally are even more secure.

And I don't want to fault the Secret Service because I think they did a phenomenal job of securing the perimeter.

[17:05:00]

But the fact that this person was staying in the hotel above the site, I think is problematic. And we've got to do a better job of even making these locations more secure.

KEILAR: We see in the surveillance video shared by the President that you have Secret Service drawing their weapons. Do we know if the suspect actually ever fired one of his weapons?

GARCIA: So that is of course being investigated. And that is we -- I do believe that information will, and the determination will be public fairly soon. And so that's something I'll let the director and the FBI roll out as that information becomes more and more available.

KEILAR: Turning now, can you confirm if the agent shot was indeed hit by friendly fire?

GARCIA: I'm going to allow that to be, you know, really rolled out by the enforcement agencies this time.

KEILAR: OK. And I think you sort of hinted at this, which is even as the Secret Service did their job and you're saying that, that what does this mean for future events like this? This event, and you said the first checkpoint, that was the last checkpoint as well, before getting to the ballroom.

Is this event as we know it, security wise, maybe location wise, other events like this, do they need to be totally rethought, do you think?

GARCIA: I think there has to be rethinking the way these events work. Look, every single President, I think probably since Ronald Reagan have spoken in that ballroom. It's a well-known location. This event happens every year and people know this hotel, they know that ballroom.

It's something that needs to, I think have much more attention in the way it's planned. And I think at the end of the day, when you have a huge hotel, a number of guests that are staying above essentially this ballroom, treating it as a location where, you know, you can have many targets for assassins or folks are really trying to cause major harm, I think have to be looked at differently.

And so I would absolutely support efforts to ensure that locations like this are more secure, whether it's from a resource perspective, but also ensuring that we're doing a better job of working with fire marshals and others. Look, many of the checkpoints of the way they're set up at these events are also because there are demands around fire marshal and the fire department where and how exits need to be open for members of the public, which is why this location, the security checkpoint was in large part set up the way it was.

And so we have to do a better job, I think, of ensuring that there is a larger barrier that's farther away from the public. Because at this very same entrance there were cabinet officials, there were members of Congress that were coming in through those front doors, and someone that is armed and clearly very dangerous had access to many members of the government separate of their actions in trying to go after the president. And so I think events like this have to be rethought. Absolutely.

KEILAR: Turning now to the Epstein investigation, former Attorney General Pam Bondi is set to testify next month before your committee. That only happened after the committee threatened to hold her in contempt.

How do you see this going? What do we know about this and what big questions do you want her to answer?

KEILAR: Look, two weeks ago, Pam Bondi, of course, skipped her subpoena deposition. That was bipartisan when it was voted on, and it was very concerning. We've been reaching out to the Department of Justice, we've reached out to Pam Bondi, we reached out to the White House. There has been no response.

And we've asked Chairman Comer and Republicans why this was skipped and when this would be rescheduled. We have heard nothing. It wasn't until today when we filed contempt charges against Pam Bondi, that 45 minutes later, Chairman Comer announced a new date for the former attorney general. And so we're glad that she's finally scheduled a new date.

It's about a month from now. But those contempt charges stand, they have been filed. And she now needs to show up for her actual deposition here over the course of the next month or we're going to move forward. And so I'm glad that putting a little pressure worked. But she needs to answer questions on the Epstein files.

KEILAR: So it's a transcribed interview rather than an under oath deposition. Help us understand that and how that might impact the outcome of this investigation.

GARCIA: The Oversight Committee, they have both under oath. I mean, at the end of the day, she is speaking. She cannot be lying to Congress in her responses. It will be transcribed. It will be made available to the public. This is very similar to how the Clintons and other interviews have been done in the past.

And what's most important is that it's transcribed, that she is being honest, that it's released to the public and every member of our committee will be able to ask questions. And so we're confident that we're going to get answers. The important thing now is that she actually show up.

KEILAR: Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California, thanks for being with us.

Some major news in the Money Lead from Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. He confirmed that once his term as chairman ends next month, on May 15, he plans to remain on the board as one of the governors. And that is significant because President Trump said earlier this month if Powell decided to stay on the board and he'd fire Powell.

For months now, Trump has accused Powell of going billions of dollars over budget on renovations at the Federal Reserve.

[17:10:00]

Last Friday, the Justice Department closed its criminal investigation into that question, but asked an inspector general to review the case. Powell explained why he decided to stick around.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need more assurance from the Justice Department before stepping down. Is that what you're waiting for or what else?

JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR: I'm waiting for the investigation to be well and truly over with finality and transparency, and I'm waiting for that. And I will leave when I think it's appropriate to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That announcement came after the Federal Reserve voted to hold interest rates at the current benchmark between 3.5 and 3.75 percent, policymakers citing higher energy prices due to the war with Iran.

Case in point, the price of Brent crude oil, the international benchmark. It is now at $116 a barrel. That is up more than 5 percent. WTI the U.S. benchmark right behind it. And AAA says gas prices now average $4.23 a gallon, jumping 21 cents in a week and up a dollar 25 since the war began.

Also today, the Senate Banking Committee voted to advance the nomination of Kevin Warsh, President Trump's pick to succeed Powell as Fed chairman. Warsh is expected to favor cutting interest rates sometime this year.

Ahead here on the lead, President Trump confirming he spoke with Russian leader Vladimir Putin today. What he revealed about that long phone conversation.

Plus, what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth revealed about the cost of the war with Iran and what police are saying about a stabbing attack on two Jewish men in London.

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KEILAR: In our World Lead, two Jewish men wounded in a stabbing attack during broad daylight today in London. Officials saying the men now in the hospital, they are seen on security footage waiting for a bus when they were suddenly attacked.

Police describing the attack as a terrorist incident. And this comes after a wave of antisemitic incidents in the United Kingdom including several arson attacks. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh arrived on the chaotic scene just moments after the stabbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: About a couple of hours ago we were driving back from an interview with a rabbi at a synagogue close by. His synagogue was attacked recently and as we were driving up towards Golder's Green, this predominantly Jewish area in North London, we could hear choppers up in the sky. We could hear and see, see the police sirens and the emergency response. So our team just got out of the cab and ran over to see what was going on.

And since then of course we have had those statements coming out from the Jewish charity the Shamayim (ph) that runs the neighborhood watch patrols as well as the Mech police in the last few minutes as well, saying that two Jewish people were stabbed in this attack. They were a 30-year-old and a 70-year-old, according to the police. They are in stable condition.

The suspect, according to the Met tried to also stab police officers. He was tasered and he was taken into custody. They say that he's a 45- year-old man. They are working to establish his nationality, his background, any links he might have. This is being led by the counterterrorism police.

This investigation is ongoing. I mean the Shamayim (ph) were saying that the attacker was running down Golden Spring Road with a knife looking to stab Jewish members of the public. And keeping in mind this is coming after that spate of antisemitic arson attacks that we have seen around London since the end of March. That has very much put the Jewish community on edge to say the least.

Those attacks, we don't know again if this is linked to what is going on here, what has happened here. Those attacks, we were claimed by a group that we'd not heard of before. The British authorities have said that they are investigating its possible links to Iran and whether Iranian proxies may have been used to carry out those arson attacks.

Speaking with members of the Jewish community, speaking with the rabbi earlier, you know, he was saying they're shocked by what is going on, but not surprised. And the fear that we've heard from people here is that this sort of violence is becoming normalized. You know, after the arson attacks, everyone was saying, thankfully, no one was hurt. Today, two people were stabbed here.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KEILAR: Jomana Karadsheh in London. Thank you for that report. Ahead, the potential ripple effect of today's major Supreme Court decision on this year's midterm elections. But first, the families of victims from a mass shooting now suing the artificial intelligence company OpenAI and its CEO, Sam Altman, an attorney for those families joins us next.

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KEILAR: We're back with our series AI, Friend or Foe, looking at stories that highlight the benefits and the risks of this developing technology. Today, seven families of victims in a February school shooting are suing OpenAI and its CEO Sam Altman, the company behind the popular chatbot ChatGPT.

The lawsuits alleged that the company and ChatGPT were complicit in the injuries or deaths of their children during a February attack in Canada. It was the country's deadliest school shooting in decades.

The events in Tumbler Ridge are a tragedy, an OpenAI spokesperson said in a statement. We have a zero tolerance policy for using our tools to assist in committing violence. The spokesperson added that OpenAI has already strengthened our safeguards, including improving how ChatGPT responds to signs of distress, connecting people with local support and mental health resources, strengthening how we assess and escalate potential threats of violence, and improving detection of repeat policy violators. Joined now by an attorney for the plaintiffs, Jay Edelson.

Jay, thanks for being with us. One of the complaints alleged that OpenAI's design choices to let ChatGPT engage with users about violence actually deepened the assailants' violent fixations. And you have worked on a number of similar cases related to AI and social media technologies.

[17:25:06]

So explain exactly what that means as this case, as it says so in this filing.

JAY EDELSON, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILIES IN CANADA SCHOOL SHOOTING: Sure. And we think ChatGPT is a fundamentally dangerous product. What we've seen in other cases and what we're going to see in this case is that when someone has mental illness, it will validate their beliefs and then accelerate their beliefs.

Here the shooter was actually flagged for discussing planning of gun violence. The flags were then routed to humans within the company. 12 People within OpenAI were jumping up and down saying we need to alert the authorities. And they were overruled by leadership. And that's why this mass shooting happened and that's why this ridiculous --we don't countenance any, you know, bad actions on our platform is really offensive to the victims of this shooting.

KEILAR: Yes, the law -- I just want to review what you said there and confirm that. The lawsuit from one family alleges that OpenAI made the conscious decision not to warn authorities about the woman that would go on to commit the Tumbler Ridge shooting. The Wall Street Journal reported in February some of the employees saw the post about gun violence as an indication of potential real world violence.

They urged leaders to alert Canadian law enforcement about her behavior. The people familiar with the matter said OpenAI leaders ultimately decided not to contact authorities.

OpenAI did, however, ban the account, as you know. Why is the account ban not enough of a responsible action in this instance?

EDELSON: So OpenAI an account ban actually is meaningless. OpenAI tells people who are banned, even if they're banned for dangerous discussions, how to get back on their platform. They tell you just start a new account with a new email address or they even have sub email addresses which basically just mimic your own email address so you still get it to your email that you can set up and they tell you exactly how to do that.

So this is just more corporate doublespeak by OpenAI. Their systems are fundamentally flawed.

KEILAR: These lawsuits come on the heels of a formal apology from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. He said in a letter to the community of Tumbler Ridge, quote, I am deeply sorry that we did not alert law enforcement to the account that was banned in June. While I know words can never be enough, I believe an apology is necessary to recognize the harm in and irreversible loss your community has suffered.

How is that apology being received?

EDELSON: It's not being received. Well, we've -- we have given an open invitation for Sam to come to the town of Tumbler Ridge. I spent last week meeting with the families and the devastation that decisions that he and other leadership at OpenAI did to this community, small mining community of 2,000 people and they've destroyed so many lives. He should come and speak directly to the victims and apologize face to face. But he's not going to do that because he's a coward.

KEILAR: Jay, thank you so much. Jay Edelson, we appreciate you being with us.

EDELSON: Thank you.

KEILAR: Next, a Supreme Court justice invoking bloody Sunday from 1965 and her dissenting opinion today about Louisiana's long contested congressional mask.

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[17:32:55]

KEILAR: In our Law and Justice Lead, what critics are calling another blow to the landmark Voting Rights Act of 1965. Today's six to three ruling tosses out Louisiana's long contested congressional map which includes two majority black districts. The court's conservative justices found it was an unconstitutional racial gerrymander. The ruling upholds a lower court's ruling that state, state map makers relied too heavily on race to create a second majority black district.

Justice Elena Kagan, joining her fellow liberal justices in a 48-page dissent. She accused her conservative colleagues of destroying the Voting Rights Act, reminding them of the legacy of Bloody Sunday and the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, back in 1965. Protesters then were fighting for the right to vote. The late Congressman John Lewis helped lead that march.

He was one of several people brutally beaten by state troopers. The violence of that march created intense pressure on Congress and led to the passage and signing of the Voting Rights Act. Lewis witnessed the signing of that legislation as a young man. Nearly 50 years later in 2013, CNN's Jeff Zeleny was with Lewis as he watched parts of the act being chipped away by a previous Supreme Court ruling.

Now in 2026, the justice -- justice's decision could have major implications in the high stakes redistricting war that's playing out in states nationwide with Republicans and Democrats fighting to secure an advantage in this year's midterm elections.

Let's talk about this now with Jodi Kantor, a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter with The New York Times. She's also the author of the new book "How to Start: Discovering Your Life's Work." All right, Jodi, so your more recent investigations have focused on the Supreme Court. What do you make of today's decision in light of your recent reporting?

JODI KANTOR, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Oh, I mean, it's a show of the power and force of this Republican appointed super majority that has yet again, you know, just made an enormous move with incredible consequences. And, you know, some Supreme Court rulings take a while to play out in the real world. We saw a flurry of redistricting activity this afternoon from several states showing that they are seizing on this immediately before the midterms.

[17:35:23]

KEILAR: Yes. And we're witnessing this rare wave of mid-decade redistricting, as you mentioned, across several states before. And now we're going to see more of it. What effect do you think this is going to have as they take these actions? What ultimately is the end game as informed by this decision?

KANTOR: I mean it appears to hand a lot of congressional power to Republicans. Like we obviously want to see how things play out in real life, but that appears to be the immediate effect. It's hard to think of, you know, this is like almost a Bush v. Gore level of political impact stemming directly from a Supreme Court decision. We'll see. We'll see. I want to be cautious about that, but it looks like it could be enormously consequential.

KEILAR: Yes, big day today with -- as you said, we do have to wait and see. But this is something that so many people are saying is going to be huge. As I mentioned, you are also out with a new book and it is called "How to Start," which is inspired by a commencement address that you gave. So with millions of students who are graduating next month and fewer jobs to be had, it's tough. I mean we hear this from young people. It's tough for graduates to find work. What's your advice for people who are entering the workforce?

KANTOR: So this book is about what young people should actually do in the face of this situation. We know the grim job news, right? CNN has reported it, "The New York Times" has reported it. But that still leaves graduates with I think a fascinating question which is what is a powerful and productive response look like in this environment?

And that's -- so this book was set off by students. A year ago I was invited to give the commence address at Columbia, my alma mater, was a very complicated situation, Brianna, because you remember the tumult that Columbia was going through at the time. But to, you know, and friends told me not to give the address. They were like call in sick. You know, the place is toxic. You're going to get booed.

But something in me said give me those kids. And the students ask an incredible -- asked an incredible question. They said we don't want to talk about Trump, we don't want to talk about Israel, we don't want to talk about Gaza, we don't want to talk about the university administration we all hate. They said, our class, despite all of its political differences, is united in anxiety over the question, how do we find and start our life's work? And it's a generational question.

You know, I've been to elite campuses. I've been to humble campuses. I have yet to meet a student population that isn't concerned about this. And the reason I wrote this book is that there is a lot of bad advice and there's a lot of no advice. Hiring has become very digital, very lonely. Can we say what is going to happen with A.I. and entry level work? Not yet. It's a little bit too early.

But we can say that A.I. is already making hiring very tough, not only in the sense of fewer jobs to get, but the process is, it's really degrading. A lot of these graduates are actually being interviewed by A.I. and not by real human beings. And so I wanted to give them something real and time tested and not falsely optimistic, but ultimately encouraging to hang onto.

KEILAR: Yes, that sounds like a great balance to strike. Looking forward to checking this out. Jodi Kantor, thank you so much for being with us.

KANTOR: A pleasure. Thank you.

KEILAR: Later here on The Lead, we'll talk more about today's Supreme Court decision with Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock.

[17:39:19]

Plus, are there cracks in the MAGA movement led by President Trump? CNN's John King is asking that question in rural Ohio as part of his All Over the Map Series, next.

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KEILAR: Back in our Law and Justice Lead, all six conservative Supreme Court justices were at last night's state dinner honoring King Charles. And the three liberal justices, not present. It's unclear whether they were invited, but the optics fly in the face of what we often hear from Chief Justice John Roberts that the court he leads avoids even the appearance of a political divide.

CNN's John King is joining us now along with Sarah Isgur, who has a new book out, "Last Branch Standing." It's an inside look at the Supreme Court's inner workings and what's motivating the nine justices. And you, Sarah, you're also the editor of SCOTUSblog, which is just, I mean, necessary.

SARAH ISGUR, EDITOR, SCOTUSBLOG: We were busy today.

KEILAR: Very busy. What do you make of the moment where you have the six conservative justices attending last night, none of the liberal ones?

ISGUR: That's funny. I was texting away last night because it was so surprising to me that the chief went for all the reasons that you just said. He is the main institutionalist of the court. I'd be shocked if he went if they hadn't been invited.

[17:45:02]

But like you sort of insinuate there, I'm surprised he went even with them invited with that appearance. The court has worked very hard to make clear that there is no red team or blue team at the Supreme Court. Their decisions bear that out. The data bears that out. But here we have a state dinner where in fact, it was the six Republican appointees at the White House.

KEILAR: It'll be very interesting if we can figure that out, so hard that sort of black box. That is a Supreme Court. John, today's decision. This is huge, right? This is monumental. And it centers on these two majority blacks, a minority -- majority minority districts in Louisiana. It hands a big win to Republicans ruling that the map should be redrawn, that there shouldn't be this second of those two. How much could this serve as a bellwether for other states?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Number one, this is a giant, essentially stop in the whole civil rights conversation. This has been a legacy of the civil rights movement, the Voting Rights Act, to protect minority populations. Now the court saying, no. Can't do it that way. So there's a huge civil rights conversation to have.

In the here and now about House districts and redistricting, Louisiana is in the middle. Its primary is coming up just a couple of weeks. So can they redraw that map for this year? Probably not. They're going to take a look at it, see what they can do. Probably not. Tennessee is thinking about trying to redraw their map already. Mississippi and Alabama will look at this. South Carolina will look at this.

A whole number of states, most of them in the south, are going to look at this. How much can you do in 2026? My bet is not that much, just because they're already primary scheduled and early voting in some of these states already. Maybe a little. But this guarantees that, number one, the voting rights, the civil rights issue carries over into 2028 and so does all the map redrawing.

And guess what? If those southern states are going to redraw minority districts and try to wipe them out and turn them into red districts, well, then New York and Colorado and other blue states are going to jump back into it. Illinois, like we saw this year. So what we've seen is Trump started it this year with Texas go, then California get in. And it's been a domino effect. That right now is probably about a draw.

Florida has a new map that will help the Republicans, maybe three or four seats. A lot of people have thought this is messy. Guess what? There's a huge civil rights debate to continue. And this is going to go on into 2028 and now probably beyond.

KEILAR: It's like a race to the bottom right.

KING: Right. Exactly.

KEILAR: We can get this back and forth, back and forth that we can look forward to continuing. You're also out with a great new edition of your All Over the Map Series, and you've been looking at shifts in the MAGA movement. What did you find?

KING: Well, I got to go to the state of Ohio, which tells you everything, that there are big questions in places that Trump won three times by big margins. Democrats in Ohio, Bri, think that they can win the race for governor and maybe even flip a red Senate seat blue.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

J. KING (voice-over): Most of Ohio is rural, and rural America is Trump country. But rural also means you drive a lot. High gas prices hurt. Farms dot the rolling hills of Albany and southeast Ohio. This one is unique.

J. KING: The chickens are your supervisors?

BILL KRUSLING, OHIO VOTER: Yes.

J. KING (voice-over): Four hundred or so sheep on a hundred grassy acres. Lambing season. These sheep are pregnant. Two hundred to 250 more little lambs do any day.

KRUSLING: Stay there. Stay.

J. KING (voice-over): Bill Krusling doesn't need much diesel or any fertilizer, so he's shielded from the Iran war cost spikes hitting many other farmers. He does OK, but is saddled by huge medical debts. His biggest complaints about Washington are corruption and deficit spending. J. KING: Trump promised to change the health care system and he hasn't. He promised to reduce the debt and he hasn't.

KRUSLING: Well, it takes time. He had four years, but he was new to Washington. I don't blame Trump. I blame the Congress.

J. KING: Where am I riding?

KRUSLING: Right here.

J. KING: I'm going to take the dog seat?

KRUSLING: Yes, she's coming no matter what.

J. KING (voice-over): Krusling says, no politician understands this life and he's mad at both parties for not solving problems. But he will vote Republican in November because he's conservative and because he loves Trump for the very reason so many people can't stand Trump.

J. KING: He seems to like the fights.

KRUSLING: Oh, he loves a fight. He loves a fight and that's great. That's why I voted for him. This world's got way too many pearl clutchers. It's like, come on, people, give me a break.

J. KING (voice-over): Back on the road heading south. Portsmouth is in Scioto County, along the Ohio River across from Kentucky. Trump won 74 percent here last time. Dale King was already wavering on Trump. The Iran war, the last straw. King opened his Portsmouth gym 16 years ago after returning home from two tours in Iraq.

DALE KING, OHIO VOTER: It's crazy because that's like 20 years ago.

J. KING (voice-over): King voted for Trump in 2016, again in 2024, but he's voting for Democrats in 2026 because he believes the country send Trump a midterm message.

[17:49:57]

D. KING: I am pro military and I am -- we have a strong need to protect this country. I know there are threats and I know there are enemies that want to see the downfall of this country. But you can't be flippant about war, you can't. You cannot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Again, Bri, they're two-time Trump voter, including in 2024, saying in 2026 he thinks you need to send the commander-in-chief a message. Look, be skeptical about this. Trump won 81 of Ohio's 88 counties. He won Ohio three times, easily.

But half of those 88 counties are running ahead of the national average when it comes to are your costs outpacing your wages. The affordability crisis is real. And a lot of it is in those small rural counties where Trump runs up the numbers. So a lot of Trump voters are paying the price of this affordability crisis than Democrats think. And even Republicans concede they have a shot avoiding the governors. They haven't elected a governor in 20 years. Sherrod Brown lost his Senate seat. He's trying to win back J.D. Vance his old Senate seat. So we'll see. But that, that Ohio is competitive tells you everything, that there are at least some cracks in the mega coalition.

KEILAR: That's how I know I'm officially a veteran political reporter is that back in my day, you know, Ohio was competitive and it's not anymore. But that's fascinating what John is learning as he's talking to people there.

ISGUR: And you know what state might be competitive here in 2026? Texas. You know, the new swing states always pop up, but I think we've nationalized our elections so much in the last 10 years. Congressmen no longer really represent their districts. They just represent the team, red or blue. And I think you're seeing these chickens, to use a term, come home to roost. Because if you actually represented your district, if retail politics was still a thing we were doing, they would know their voters, they would be able to talk to them about issues, legislation that they were proposing. None of that's happening.

Instead, we're having negative polarization. You don't have to like me, but that guy over there wants to destroy your way of life. That's not going to work right now. And the question isn't how big the blue, sorry, whether there's a blue wave, it's how big it's going to be.

KEILAR: What does that do to their ability to kind of be the quintessential politician, to be a retail politician, to get out there and glad hand and actually listen and talk to people?

ISGUR: I mean, it's a dead art at this point. This is why Iowa, New Hampshire went first for these primaries. Look, one solution to this, by the way, that Ben Sasse talked about several times recently. George Washington wanted to cap the number of people a member of Congress could represent at 20 or 30,000. They're now representing 800,000 people. They can't do retail politics with 800,000 people.

KING: I don't know if America wants more congressmen, though, which would be what you'd get if you took that approach. But to your point, Bill Krusling, that farmer there, he's a conservative. He's going to vote Republican. But he says no politician understands his life. No politician ever comes to a small farm. Dale King, that veteran, lives in a small town just across the Ohio River from Kentucky. They don't show up there. They go to the big cities. They go to cities.

But just look, if you -- rural America is Trump country, right? That's how he wins in Ohio, that's how he wins in Texas, that's how he wins in Iowa. Guess what? Rural America, you drive more. You need diesel for your farm. You need fertilizer for your farm. Who has the Iran war hit the hardest? Rural Americans Trump country.

So I think there's a huge question as to whether places that we have just not even thought about visiting in the last -- in the 10 years of Trump are now in play. KEILAR: I think anyone ignores them at their peril. If you really want to understand the country, you have to get out there whether you feel that they're your voter or not. You have to understand.

ISGUR: And you need some Casey's breakfast pizza from Iowa.

KEILAR: Certainly. So before we let you go, I mentioned that your new book, "Last Branch Standing," you look deep into the history of the Supreme Court in this, which is just such a fascinating time to do so in today's ultra-polarized environment. How does the court preserve its legitimacy as being a non-partisan entity? This is obviously so pertinent to this moment today.

ISGUR: Exactly. You know, this was a decision that was six-three along ideological lines, but that's about 10, 15 percent of the decisions that we've been seeing lately. The vast majority aren't along those lines at all. In fact, last term, the same number of cases were with all of the liberals in dissent like we saw today. The same number were with all the liberals in the majority and conservatives in dissent.

The biggest number of cases coming out of the Supreme Court are unanimous. There are things we need to do to help the Supreme Court maintain its independence from these political branches. Donald Trump's doing his part, attacking them every day. We've seen that from Jefferson and Jackson and FDR and other presidents. We need this branch to protect the rights of free speech, of criminal justice. So we need to stop covering it like it's Congress and understand the branch, which is why I wrote the book.

KEILAR: Awesome, Sarah, looking forward to reading it. John, thank you so much. What a wonderful report. And again, Sarah's new book is called "Last Branch Standing." It's out now, so you can go and get it.

[17:55:05]

CNN's Kaitlan Collins coming up next with what President Trump told her today about his phone call with Russian leader, Vladimir Putin, a rather long phone call he had today.

Plus, how much the war in Iran is costing the Pentagon. A Navy veteran who now serves in Congress is here with his reaction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Brianna Keilar in for Jake Tapper. This hour, is President Trump any closer to a deal with Iran? Where do the negotiations stand right now? CNN's Kaitlan Collins pressed the President on those very questions this afternoon and about his lengthy phone call today with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Hear what he told her in moments.

[17:59:52]

Plus, a consequential day at the U.S. Supreme Court as the justices limit a key part of the Voting Rights Act. So what does this mean for the midterms and for the maps that decide your representation in Congress? Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia is here to weigh --