Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Awaits Iran's Response To Latest Proposal To End War; Appeals Court Appears Poised To Reject Hegseth' Bid To Punish Se. Kelly Over "Illegal Orders" Video; Judge: DOJ Doesn't Need To Return 2020 Fulton County Ballots; Secretary Of State Rubio Meets With Pope Leo; CENTCOM: U.S. Military Responded To "Unprovoked Iranian Attacks". Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 07, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you all being here. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Don't go anywhere because Jake Tapper is standing by for the lead.

Hi, Jake. Happy Thursday.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. To you as well. We're going to look for more tomorrow from you in "The Arena."

HUNT: See you soon. Bye.

[17:00:38]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The White House insists it has good reasons to keep the cameras and reporters away today. The Lead starts right now.

From a man hardly shy of a T.V. camera or reporters, today the opposite. The White House shooing reporters away from a chance to ask the president questions and to hear from him directly on the war with Iran. And now we're hearing the White House his reasoning as to why.

And as the president keeps up the tension, today, it is Secretary of State Marco Rubio facing the Pope Leo, in a meeting. I'm going to talk about it with a man who came to the U.S. hidden in the trunk of a car and is soon to be bishop of a state that Trump won three times.

Plus, is there even a slight chance of the Hantavirus coming to the U.S.? The states tracking the risk as Americans who were on the cruise ship before the outbreak return home.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're going to start in our world lead. It's strangely silent at the White House today as the prospect of a deal to end the war between the U.S. and Iran is hanging in the balance. Now, we told you yesterday that the U.S. and Iran were reviewing a one page memo that would declare an end to the war. Iranian media says that Tehran is still reviewing the U.S. messages. And we expected to have heard some sort of update today from President Trump because Brazilian President Lula da Silva arrived at the White House this morning and was scheduled to have an open press meeting with Trump at 11:15 a.m. Eastern. But instead, the doors remained closed for that meeting and reporters did not get to ask questions of President Trump. It's unusual since President Trump's bilateral meetings with world leaders are usually a whole production and he takes all sorts of questions. But today, while the whole world is waiting for this critical update on the Iran war, President Trump did not say anything about it, at least not as of now.

Why? The source tells CNN that the Brazilians requested that the press not be brought into the Oval Office for the bilat (ph), noting that potential questions about Lula's past criticism of Trump could make that awkward. OK, sure. But it's unclear why the two countries did not agree to terms around a potential press availability ahead of time. Regardless, there are plenty of reasons to think that President Trump might not want to talk about the war right now.

Perhaps he's contemplating new strikes on Iran. He's been threatening as much for days. There's also the fact that Iranian officials have called the reported peace plan an American wish list. And some critics have called the one pager a warmed over version of President Barack Obama's nuclear deal, the one that Trump shredded. The price of oil continues to skyrocket as commercial vessel traffic in the Strait of Hormuz has dropped to one of its lowest points ever in the past 48 hours according to data reviewed by CNN.

The average price of gas in the U.S. is up to $4.56 per gallon. Then there's the Washington Post report from yesterday saying that Iran has hit far more U.S. military assets than the U.S. military has reported. That's according to their analysis of satellite images. Israel continues to bomb Hezbollah in Lebanon as both Israel and Hezbollah have accused each other of violating that ceasefire.

And there's Republican Congressman Tom Barrett. He represents this Michigan swing district. He just introduced a bill that would reject President Trump's claim that the war has ended, essentially. And all of this leads some to wonder if President Trump is possibly more eager to end the war than Iran is.

Joining us now to discuss Rebeccah Heinrichs. She's a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. Also with us, Henrietta Treyz, Director of Economic Policy at Veda Partners.

And Rebecca, the world is waiting for this update on the Iran war. So far today, we're hearing crickets from the White House that might be prudent. I don't know. What do you make of it?

REBECCAH HEINRICHS, SENIOR FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: Well, I -- first of all, I think that if the Iranians did not want President Trump to make good on his threats that we would resume military operations. I don't know how they would behaving any differently. I mean, not only do you see provocative statements from these political Iranian leaders on social media, but you still have continued threats, of course, in the Strait of Hormuz. They're still not letting those 1,500 plus ships through the Strait of Hormuz, essentially holding them hostage. So we do not see any evidence that the Iranians are willing to accept any kind of, especially the terms that President Trump has laid out, and he hasn't backed off on any of them.

[17:05:00]

TAPPER: Interesting. And meanwhile, Henrietta, Americans are looking at the cost of energy and they're wondering how much does my life and my livelihood, at least in terms of my pocketbook, depend on this deal to end the war.

HENRIETTA TREYZ, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC POLICY, VEDA PARTNERS: Not only do you need a deal to end the war and the military fighting, but you need a deal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. That is the bottom line. If you look at the fertilizer hikes, that's 40 percent in just the last 68 days. Jet fuel is up 100 percent purely because of the Strait of Hormuz being closed. We are dealing with a cascading ripple effect that started with gasoline that you buy and now is at $4.56 and could be as high as $5 by Memorial Day on the current trajectory.

And it's now trickling into food. So for the first time since the war started, we're starting to get earnings reports from major American companies. The biggest retail -- excuse me, restaurant chain in America, McDonald's, reported today, and they're seeing that at the end of the month, sales start to trickle down because people have run out of cash, they've run out of their monthly paycheck. And it's really starting to seep into every single major restaurant chain that you can think of. And even the refrigerators that you're trying to buy at Whirlpool, they're down 10 percent year over year just because of the war.

TAPPER: And, Rebeccah, a new Washington Post report says that, quote, "A confidential CIA analysis delivered to administration policymakers this week concludes that Iran can survive the U.S. Naval blockade for at least three to four months before facing more severe economic hardship, four people familiar with the documents said."

Iran is already going through, like, huge inflation. I mean, they are bearing the brunt of this, but if they can last three or four more months, I mean, that must be pretty concerning.

HEINRICHS: Well, it's -- I mean, we think about it, 47 years of a terrorist state trying to kill Americans, killing Americans, being a destabilizing force in the Middle East, three more months until the entire economy collapses is really not that long. So on the one hand, in political terms, what everybody's kind of looking at right now, it seems like a lot, but, man, I mean, we are depriving them of hundreds of millions of dollars a day in energy and really have the squeeze on the -- on the regime. Inflation, of course, is up. We've even seen some Iranians trying to barter at the Turkish border for basic goods.

So the Iranian people are already hurting. Of course, the regime doesn't care about that.

TAPPER: Right. HEINRICHS: The regime only cares about not having the resources to pay its people. But there is indication that that is also running out to the regime can't pay its militia.

So the regime is hurting. Even if it is three more months, I still don't think that's that long for finally crushing the regime.

TAPPER: Henrietta over the past 48 hours, commercial vessel traffic through the state of Hormuz has dropped to one of its lowest points ever. This is according to data from Marine Traffic reviewed by CNN. Is there anything short of ending the war that could help with this?

TREYZ: I mean, you can try to find some on the ground transport that can get some of the fuel and some of the fertilizer through, but it's so slow. There's really no making up for it. There's nothing that the United States can do to make up for that loss. And one of the questions I get a lot is, you know, when are the refiners going to start drilling new wells and pumping out more oil from the United States? And the answer is it takes five to 10 years to bring a new well online.

We cannot replace what the strait is going through. And that's why, you see, you know, to talk about inflation. Inflation in the Philippines is 7 percent right now, and that's cascading across the globe. It starts in Asia, moves to Africa. It'll be in the E.U., where it already is, and they're cutting flights back 20,000 from Lufthansa already, and then it'll be in the United States.

And we're seeing at the pump, and we're starting to see it at restaurants, and it's just going to cascade. The strait is closed.

TAPPER: How much progress do you think is actually being made towards some sort of deal, whether it's that one pager that would just end the war and all the -- all the incredibly difficult issues, TBD, or something more substantive?

HEINRICHS: So I think that there is some indications that the Iranians have begun to back off some of their most maximalist demands, which is good. But ultimately, this is a game that the Iranians play. They can -- they can extend this for a long time, and they're trying to win the long game. Get these -- get international pressure to pressure President Trump to get off, you know, to essentially just call it quits and let the Iranians basically control the strait, or political domestic pressure here at home on President Trump to just end the war.

But I think that ultimately how this ends over the next few days is I do think we resume military operations. We've already had some reporting that we're going to resume Project Freedom which is these naval escorts which I think had begun to work and the president, you know, put a pause on them after a couple of days to get these ships out of the strait. So I don't know that we're going to have a deal to open the Strait of Hormuz. I think it's going to take American military might to open the strait and then I do think it has to be multinational. We've got to get other countries comfortable following the United States to escort ships.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both you. Really appreciate your expertise.

Coming up next, a sense of confidence today from Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona just moments after an appeals course heard his case, his challenge against Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth trying to punish him for telling U.S. Service members that they should remember they do not have to obey illegal orders.

[17:10:05]

And extreme uses of fake imagery to capture your imagination including a new post today from President Trump, the messages sent and how they're being received ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, a federal appeals court in Washington, D.C. appears ready to reject Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's effort to punish veteran and Senator Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona. This is over that video that Kelly and several other Democratic lawmakers made last year in which they reminded U.S. service members they do not have to obey illegal orders. Senator Kelly spoke outside the courthouse after today's hearing. At his side, his wife, Gabby Giffords, and several veterans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): They're trying to send a message to other retired veterans and really to all of us. If you say something that the president or this administration does not like, they're going to come after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:15:11]

TAPPER: Let's bring in Rachel VanLandingham, retired U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel and former JAG officer who's now a professor at Southwestern Law School.

So, Rachel, you and Senator Kelly believe this case could end up at the U.S. Supreme Court. Could it set a national precedent on what retired service members are allowed to say publicly?

RACHEL VANLANDINGHAM, RETIRED JAG OFFICER: Sure, because there's a very unique and old law that allows for military law, the Uniform Code of Military justice, to actually apply to service -- to retired service members. But the court -- the Supreme Court has never said that that includes the very restrictive speech crimes that are unique to the military. They've never said that actually applies to retired service members. And retired service members like myself have never thought that it actually applied to us simply because we're earning a pension for our past honorable service to our country. And so I do think the United States Supreme Court, even though it has allowed for these pretty restrictive speech crimes for those on active duty because of the effect on speech -- of speech, on things like obedience and good order and discipline. They need to come out clearly and say these crimes do not apply to the millions of service members who are retired from the military and that we need to hear from. We do not need their messages chilled.

TAPPER: So on that point, during today's hearing, one of the judges appointed by former President George H.W. Bush pointed out that since Senator Kelly could be recalled at any time and court martialed, it must be the case that other tools are also available for the military to use to go after him over his conduct. What about that argument?

VANLANDINGHAM: Well, that argument could apply to every military age male who's has signed up for the Selective Service, which they're actually required to sign up for. So simply because someone could at some point become a military member and on active duty again does not mean that their First Amendment rights are now truncated for the rest of their entire life. I mean that argument is frankly ridiculous. And so I think the court needs to be very, very careful in highlighting the fact that, look, service members who have retired are civilians and they have their full First Amendment rights restored to them.

Second of all, Congress actually could end this tomorrow by simply saying we're going to get rid of the law that extends military crimes and military jurisdiction to retirees, even reservists, who do serve, you know, a few days a month and go on active duty training, when they're -- when they're not on training orders, they're not subject to the code. So why should an old retiree like myself or importantly Senator Kelly or the millions of others who have honorably retired, why should we be subject to these -- to these crimes? It's ridiculous.

TAPPER: All right. Retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rachel VanLandingham, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

We have some breaking news for you now. A court ruling just in against President Trump and a round of tariffs he tried to implement. That story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:22:26]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our law and justice lead. The U.S. Trade Court has just ruled against President Donald Trump's latest 10 percent global tariffs. Let's get right to CNN's Richard Quest from "Quest Means Business."

Richard, break it down for us.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Right, if you remember, the Supreme Court ruled against Donald Trump using the Emergency Act for his big tariff Liberation Day. They said that was inappropriate. So what did Donald Trump do? He immediately grabbed for another law, this time to do with this known as Section 122. And instead, this was a 150 day.

It was a very specific provision that allowed for tariffs in certain cases. Having lost once, he went for this second one. Now, the Court of International Trade has said, no, you can't do that. The law that you are using for this 10 percent global trade tariff was not intended for this. It's an improper use of that law.

And so the administration's back to square one trying to find some way because, Jake, the way you would do it would be to have to do loads of studies and demonstrations and all sorts of things. What the president wants to do is a quick fix, and you can't do it with either of the laws he's come up with so far.

TAPPER: All right, Richard Quest, thanks so much.

Also in our law and justice lead, in a win for President Trump's continued efforts to prove that he did not lose the 2020 election, which he totally lost, a federal judge says that the U.S. Justice Department can keep the 2020 election ballots that the FBI under Trump seized from an Atlanta warehouse in late January of this year. As a reminder, the seizure targeted the heavily Democratic county in Atlanta that has been at the center of Trump's unfounded, unproven election fraud claims.

Geoff Duncan is the former Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia. He's currently running for governor as a Democrat.

Geoff, what is your reaction to the judge's decision to allow Trump a win on this?

GEOFF DUNCAN, (D) GEORGIA GOV. CANDIDATE: Well, Jake, we've been talking about this nonsense for six years now about these fake synthetic morsels that Donald Trump keeps throwing out to the crowd, acting like the 2020 election was rigged. And watching this ruling come out is troubling because, I mean, what could go wrong? I mean, with this administration, a lot. The synthetic facts that they continue to try to throw around, the conspiracy theories, there's real problems with this.

But I think at the end of the day, look, we've got to march straight ahead. We've got to continue to do the right thing. We've got to protect these midterms because this 2020 raid on this FBI -- FBI raid of these Fulton County ballots had nothing to do with that 2020 election. It has everything to do with sowing seeds of doubt in these upcoming midterms. And that's troubling.

[17:25:14]

TAPPER: So Fulton county officials argued that this case would provide a blueprint for the Trump administration to seize ballots in this year's midterms coming up. Now, you had a front row seat to Trump's actions during the 2020 election as lieutenant governor. Given that experience, what are you expecting Trump might do this November?

DUNCAN: I mean, who knows? I mean, the truth doesn't matter. So it's an endless amount of possibilities. I'm certain there's people inside the White House right now plotting and planning how to try to steal the election. And I've got a pretty good idea.

You know, why don't they just try to govern better? Why don't they focus on the real problems like $6 gasoline in some states, four and a half dollar gasoline here, tariffs that make no sense and continuing to double and triple down on tariffs, wars that make -- have no endgame in sight. The list goes on of things to focus on. But instead, they'd rather just stare at Donald Trump's picture on the wall and salute that instead of the American people.

TAPPER: You defected from the Republican Party last year. You're now running for governor as a Democrat. The latest polling indicates that former Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms holds a sizable lead as of right now. She has 39 percent. You're down in roughly tied for third at 7 percent.

She also recently picked up an endorsement from former President Biden. She was asked about that earlier today by Dana Bash. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS, (D) GEORGIA GOV. CANDIDATE: I can tell you, Dana, I'm moving around this state, people are missing Joe Biden more and more each day. He delivered for the people across Georgia from the millions upon millions of dollars that we received for infrastructure support to even rental assistance. So he is still very popular in this state and I'm proud to have his endorsement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is President Biden still very popular in Georgia?

DUNCAN: Well, I think the American people are tired of Donald Trump. I think they're tired of failed leadership. This election is going to a runoff. There's certainly going to be Keisha Lance Bottoms. And I believe if you look at where we're seeing the polling tracking and the momentum will come in second place and be in that runoff.

And I think she's got some tough questions to answer, not about Joe Biden but about the fact that the day she left and Mayor Dickens took over, homicides have dropped 42 percent in the city of Atlanta after her tenure. Those are the kinds of questions that if we don't have in this Democratic primary, they'll certainly be had in the general election.

And look, this is -- this election is so important for so many reasons. It's been 30 years since the Democrats won, and you got to win more than the base to do it. But we've got these -- you got to have a governor who's willing to stand up to Donald Trump and MAGA in these election cases, in these election fraud conspiracy theories, and also for reapportionment in the second term of a governor. There's a lot of real problems that a governor's got to face, and it's got to be a Democrat because all the Republicans running in this race are doing everything they can do to look and smell just like Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Geoff Duncan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

He came to the U.S. as an undocumented teen. He's soon going to be the bishop in deep red West Virginia. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISHOP EVELIO MENJIVAR-AYALA, BISHOP DESIGNATE, WHEELING-CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA: There are, we could say, millions of people like me who perhaps did not start their story in a way -- in the right way, in the perfect way, but it is the story of an immigrant, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:28:32]

TAPPER: My conversation with Bishop Evelio next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our Faith Lead begins with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, a practicing Catholic, meeting with Pope Leo at the Vatican today. The State Department says the two men discussed the Middle East as well as "their shared commitment to promoting peace and human dignity." For its part the Vatican says they discussed the need to "work tirelessly for peace." Neither official statement specifically mentions the elephant in the room, the Pope's criticism of the war in Iran and President Trump's repeated acrimonious criticism of the very first American born Pope.

Just last Monday President Trump accused Pope Leo of endangering a lot of Catholics because "he thinks it's fine for Iran to have a nuclear weapon." The Pope responded Tuesday saying he opposes the existence of nuclear weapons and "if someone wants to criticize me for proclaiming the gospel let him do so truthfully."

With us now is Bishop Avelio Mechivar Ayala. Bishop Avelio thank you so much for joining us today. A lot's been made of the back and forth between the Pope and President Trump. How do you see all of that from your perspective as a Catholic leader?

BISHOP EVELIO MENJIVAR-AYALA, BISHOP-DESIGNATE, WHEELING-CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA: Well, I mean certainly there are some differences between them. You know we know President Trump's personality. So hopefully, you know, that there are ways that they can work together. Obviously it doesn't help anyone. You know, certainly it brings divisions in the community or. But I think they can find common ground in to work, you know, for a better society better world. I think in perhaps in the mind of both, you know, certainly of the Pope is a great desire to find ways to work together especially promoting peace and the respect of human dignity.

[17:35:02]

So, yes, it's not, you know, just to lose or waste time I would say when people all over are suffering. So hopefully they will find ways to work together.

TAPPER: You have quite a remarkable personal story. You fled the Civil War in El Salvador. You came to the U.S. smuggled in the trunk of a car. You became a U.S. citizen in 2006. Tell us more about your life's journey.

MENJIVAR-AYALA: Well, it is the journey of an immigrant. There are we could say millions of people like me who perhaps did not start their story in a way -- in the right way, in the perfect way. But it is the story of an immigrant, you know, searching for survival practically and then, you know, opening just we could say just finding ways, you know, to not just amend but to offer the best of ourselves to the community, to the society.

So this is the story of many immigrants, you know, that come with a lot of desire to work hard and then to integrate in the society and in the community. And if we find the proper environment, a welcoming environment the opportunities I think we do we do the best, you know. And then we are able to contribute each one according to his or her talents for the betterment of everyone.

TAPPER: Bishop Evelio when you were appointed it was really very newsworthy because of your background because of your unique life story. Do you think that that's just happenstance or do you think that Pope Leo was in any way trying to send a message to the United States about the church?

MENJIVAR-AYALA: Well, I would say that certainly there is a message but the message perhaps is different, you know. The message is that the church is Catholic. That we are missionary disciples in a way sent to evangelize and to bring the goodness of the gospel and to plant the church or to walk with the people anywhere.

And that is that is his experience of Pope Leo left the United States. He was very young and he went as a missionary in Peru. Perhaps I don't know how was his English but certainly he still have an accent in Spanish and he was embraced by the people. He became bishop there in 2014 and he became citizen a year later because the constitution of the Peru -- of Peru requires that.

And the people in Peru didn't have a problem that he was not a native that he was from somewhere else. They just opened their heart and they were able to work together and people in Peru love the Pope. It is -- he -- Pope Leo is their Pope. And, you know, it is a great example how church leaders go anywhere, you know. There are bishops from the United States in all over the world practically, you know. And they are embraced by the people precisely because we don't represent ourselves but we represent Jesus Christ and we tried our best, you know, to be servant leaders. And that is what people are waiting I think in West Virginia as well.

So that's why I accepted, you know, understanding the difficulties, of course, the challenges that I'm going to face but very happy to walk with the people of West Virginia. They are very simple people, you know. In a way I find a lot of similarities between the people -- the beauty of the terrain in West Virginia, the mountains. But also I have I find a lot of similarities with my background.

And the people are simple. They just want somebody to love them and to walk with them to listen to them. We don't have answers. I'm not going with answers. I'm just going with an open heart to listen and then, you know, to serve them.

[17:40:10]

TAPPER: I'm not Catholic but I'm from Philadelphia where there are a lot of Catholics so I've been aware of the Pope and the importance of the Pope for my whole life. And as long as I can remember, the Pope has been anti-war and pro-life and pro-life in every sense from the moment of conception to opposing capital punishment to opposing war. And I just saw a poll suggesting that 30 percent of the American people oppose the Pope being anti-war and I thought that was so odd because popes are always anti-war as long as I could remember. Why do you think that is? Why do you think there's a division of the nation that doesn't seem to understand that this is what popes have always done?

MENJIVAR-AYALA: Well, first of all, you know, you are welcome to join the church. I mean many people --

TAPPER: Thank you.

MENJIVAR-AYALA: -- have been welcome, joining the church especially lately discovering the beauty of the faith. But yes, it is sad that there are people that support the war. It is sad that so many people don't see the destruction of life, of livelihoods that work bring and, you know, so many people don't see that wars just bring a lot of displacement of people after wars, after conflicts, you know, what follows is the displacement of people.

People have an instinct of survival. So I would say that, you know, it is the political kind of division that we're seeing, ideological divisions that we are seeing. But, you know, the church keeps moving. And Pope Francis -- Pope Leo has said, you know, I mean I'm preaching the gospel. I'm not doing politics. I'm just preaching the gospel bringing the good news. And Jesus Christ was for peace, the first message after the resurrection was peace be with you.

And actually the mass begins, every mass begins with that peace be with you, you know. And so the peace is, it is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and it is something that we are all called to build to be peace builders, you know, peacemakers to be people of peace that is one of the Beatitudes. Blessed are those, you know, who work for peace.

TAPPER: Yes. Well, peace be upon you Bishop Menjivar and thank you for joining us today.

MENJIVAR-AYALA: Thank you. God bless you.

TAPPER: Breaking news in our World Lead, the United States is reporting that the U.S. has carried out new strikes against Iran. Let's go right to CNN's Nic Robertson who's in Islamabad, Pakistan. And Nic, we just got a new statement from CENTCOM, U.S. Central Command. What can you tell us?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes about three hours ago, Jake, there were reports of explosions around Qeshm Island which is near Bandar Abbas which is right at that sort of bend in the Strait of Hormuz right where it constricts over a narrow point. The Iranian reports were reporting there were explosions there was fire. They said they were repelling what they described as enemy attacks.

What we understand now from CENTCOM appears to be a much clearer picture of what was going on that there were three guided missile destroyers from the U.S. Navy that were transiting the Strait of Hormuz going into the Gulf it appears, transiting the Strait of Hormuz when they came under attack from Iranian missiles and what has followed on from there is a defensive measures that's how CENTCOM describes it, defensive measures firing back at the Iranian military facilities from which those ships were targeted upon.

It includes drone launch sites, missile launch sites, communication nodes, intelligence nodes. So this appears to have been a situation that the United States Navy was moving through the Strait of Hormuz as it had said that it would do that it was going to have and keep and maintain vessels available for the possibility of escorting maritime vessels stuck in the Gulf out of the Strait of Hormuz.

Of course the President just a couple of days ago had put on hold Project Freedom but it -- but the U.S. Navy was still maneuvering its vessels in the region. Now the Iranians state media and military headquarters are describing this as a violation of the ceasefire. CENTCOM saying this was just defensive measures.

[17:45:09]

TAPPER: All right. Nic Robertson in Pakistan. And let me bring back Rebecca Heinrichs. Rebecca, your reaction to this latest development, these new U.S. strikes in Iran?

HEINRICHS: Well, look obviously I mean you're going to have Navy vessels transiting this corridor. If they are fired upon which they were according to U.S. Central Command, they're going to defend themselves and they're going to take out the shooter. They're not going to simply let that continue to exist there.

So I found member just a few days ago, Jake, there was during the initiation of Project Freedom. There were Iranian fast boats that still tried to attack American naval vessels and we eliminated them. There were six of them. And so, again, the Iranians continue to act aggressively. Now chairman of the joint staff, General Caine, called this quote low level harassment initially when he was asked about how the Iranians were responding. This is clearly an escalation. The Iranians have escalated by firing upon these naval vessels.

TAPPER: What more can the U.S. do to bring pressure against Iran? I mean you have the sanctions you have that devastating military campaign that the U.S. conducted from February 28th until roughly first or second week in April. You have this blockade. I mean it does seem as though the U.S. is doing maximum pressure short of, you know, obliterating the civilization as President Trump has threatened to do. What more can be done to get the Iranians to the negotiating table?

HEINRICHS: Well, so, first, I do think it's important to differentiate, you know, the civilian targets. We shouldn't, I mean for our own principles and moral reasons, we should -- those should be off limits for targets or even threats. It's also not going to affect the Iran regime because the Iran regime doesn't care about the civilization the Iranian people.

But there are plenty of military targets, Jake, that the Iran regime rump regime does care about. There's more IRGC facilities. There's more cruise missile launchers. And during the ceasefire we of course has been surveilling over Iran with the Israelis and we know what we can hit now. We know where they've been hiding. We know now where there's greater -- where there's infrastructure where the missile program has been being built.

We certainly degraded a significant number of it. People have disputed how much we have. But there are still more targets to hit. And that's why I think we are moving into the direction if the Iranians continue to escalate in which the United States says we're going to have a couple more weeks of military action.

TAPPER: All right. Rebecca Heinrichs thank you so much.

And let's bring in the panel. You two are political experts. So let's talk the politics of this. President Trump said initially this was going to be four to six weeks. We are now in week 10. Unfortunately it doesn't look like an end to this conflict is coming anytime soon. I hope I'm wrong when I say that. But I mean it just, you know, from what's going on. How much patience, how much tolerance do you think the American people can have for this war given it's already unpopular, given high gas prices? We had an expert on the show saying probably be $5 a gallon on average by Memorial Day which is right around the corner. You're a supporter of the President, Shermichael. What do you think?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's why the President is so quickly trying to bring a closure and end to this.

TAPPER: But does that because -- does that convey weakness I guess is one of my --

SINGLETON: No, no. I don't think it conveys weakness at all. I think there are two dynamics to this. There's the short term which is what you just mentioned. Gas prices to impact on energy, cost of living because the Strait of Hormuz is closed. But then there is the secondary aspect that must be considered which is much long term. I'm talking 20, 50 years. And that is stabilization in the region.

That is making sure that the regime does not continue to have the ballistic missile capabilities, does not get a nuclear warhead. Also you have the China factor where about 14 percent of their strategic oil reserves come from Iran.

TAPPER: Yes.

SINGLETON: They are great as adversary increase in their military might across the globe. And so to me the question isn't merely about what's immediately before us. It is what type of world stage should the United States permit over the duration of time for generations to come. And I think that should be communicated to the American people because I think people would generally understand that as long as there's some reprieve that comes to the immediate again address the oil issue.

TAPPER: So President Trump says that a lot. Republicans in Congress say it a lot. They say this is bad but it's nothing compared to the cost of Iran having a nuclear weapon. And I understand the argument completely. But the American people aren't buying it. I mean the majority aren't.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Donald Trump thought that that alone would be enough for a message to the American people. And he thought that he could get out of this pretty quickly. He -- I don't think he anticipated how long it would take and the complexities of this and the complexities to negotiate a deal.

And what's happening is that he now is seeing that governing is hard and that gas prices are going up and the impacts that it could have aren't that it currently is having -- happening on the American people. In terms of the politics of this, this is the worst possible time for gas prices to go up. You're looking at gas prices, if they do hit $5 between Memorial Day and Labor Day that is when families travel.

[17:50:09]

People aren't going to be taking their family vacations anymore. And then after that after Labor Day that is when the American people really start paying attention to who is on the ballot and what is going on and how they're feeling and how they're going to vote. And it is very likely that this will end up impacting Republicans not only this year but I have a feeling that the war will be a major issue in the presidential election which starts immediately after the midterm elections.

SINGLETON: Let's just keep this in mind. Even if we get a ceasefire over the next 30 to 60 days, it took 20 months for the JCPOA to be resolved.

TAPPER: The Obama JCPOA, yes.

SINGLETON: Obama, two years.

TAPPER: Yes.

SINGLETON: And so to me, I'm very hesitant to just put a timeline on this. Maybe we get a ceasefire soon but that doesn't necessarily mean, Xochitl, were going to have a complete resolution --

TAPPER: No, no.

SINGLETON: -- at all, Jake. This could be 2027, 2028.

TAPPER: Yes. SINGLETON: And so I'm just -- I would advise the President, let's back off a little bit with the timeline. Let's try to get a resolution, first of all, it's just open a Strait of Hormuz. That should be the immediate level of importance for the executive. But beyond that I think you love a set with the American people. This is going to take us time. We recognize gas prices are high. We're going to do every single thing we can to open a Strait of Hormuz. If Congress needs to step in here, the past some type of immediate legislation to provide economic reprieve. I am going to put pressure on Republicans to do that. That's what the President should do.

TAPPER: But I will say that this one pager that they're trying to get the Iranians to agree to, right, the basic way it's been described to us is, you open the streets of Hormuz, Iran. We will stop the blockade. And then all really impossible issues, TBD, and we'll resolve them in the next 30 days. I'm not the one that came up with 30 days, they are, Trump and his team. But what you say is accurate. You're not going to resolve that in 30 days.

SINGLETON: No, impossible.

TAPPER: Yes.

HINOJOSA: There's no way. And it's because he is feeling the pressure. He's feeling the pressure I'm sure from Republicans on the Hill from candidates and from the American people. And so he's putting a timeline on it because there is this narrative about, is this a forever war? How long does this last? He thought it was going to last only a few short weeks and it is longer than that. So I think he is feeling that pressure.

TAPPER: He put out a social media post on Truth Social that was basically comparing this war which has been whatever just since 68 days to, you know, Afghanistan, the war of 1812. I mean it was just whatever. And yes it's a blip.

SINGLETON: Sure.

TAPPER: And then the Iranians posted something along the lines of and look how embarrassing and humiliate. Look, how much embarrassment and humiliation you've been able to pack in to just 68 days. I don't know that the memes are working for the White House.

SINGLETON: Well, look, I look beyond the memes. If people have economic security and certainty, they are more willing to allow these types of things to go on. And so, again, as a strategist I'm looking at the data. I'm looking at the numbers. I'm looking at what Tony Fabrizio said a month ago. We actually talked about it on your show --

TAPPER: Yes.

SINGLETON: -- when he said we need to be focused on the economy. If we can figure that out, then to me, that does give the administration the amount of time necessary for a new deal. But if we don't figure out the economic situation, it does make it a little challenging. I'm not worried about Republicans. They're going to stand with the President. Their approvals are pretty high there.

It's the independent leaning Republicans that I'm a little worried about, the folks that we need to help us get across the finish line --

TAPPER: Yes.

SINGLETON: -- in November to maintain our majority in the House.

TAPPER: So just moving looking ahead to 2028, Vice President J.D. Vance took his midterm message to Iowa, coincidentally a state that it's going to kick off the 2028 Republican presidential nominating contest. And while he was doing that, the press office for the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, who was often named as a potential 2028 candidate although Rubio says no, no, no, no. His office released this video for 2028. Oh I'm sorry. This video for America's 250th anniversary, that's what I meant to say. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wanted to continue to be the place where anyone from anywhere can achieve anything where you're not limited by the circumstances of your birth by the color of your skin, by your ethnicity. But frankly it's a place where you are able to overcome challenges and achieve your full potential. I think that should be the goal of every country in the world. But I think in the U.S. we're not perfect. Our history is not one of perfection but it's still better than anybody else's history. And ours is a story of perpetual improvement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Shermichael, so I get that that's for the 250 --

SINGLETON: Sure, sure.

TAPPER: -- anniversary.

SINGLETON: Not a coincidence.

TAPPER: I don't know if that question -- I don't know the provenance of that question. I assume it was a good faith question and just an incredibly eloquent answer.

SINGLETON: It was an impeccable answer. Iron sharpens iron. I know the Vice President wants to run. But I think we should be -- we should -- I would caution my party not to make the mistake Democrats made with Kamala Harris and that is just by nominating her and appointing her without any type of competition at all. Look, J.D. Vance is the Vice President. He certainly has a lead.

[17:55:15]

But I think to have competition and others in the race to challenge the Vice President will only make him better if he ultimately is the nominee in 2028.

TAPPER: Xochitl?

HINOJOSA: I will say that video is smart. It not only gave a nod to the President throughout the video because he knows that there is that audience of one that he has to cater to in order to get his endorsement and to win a primary. At the same time, he had a very broad message about diversity in our country, things you normally don't hear from Donald Trump. So he's trying to play to a MAGA base, but also to somewhat of a general election base too.

SINGLETON: Those independents, Xochitl.

TAPPER: Yes. It was not a declaration of candidacy speech, but could have been. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Next, those cruise ship passengers stuck at sea after an outbreak of Hantavirus. My next guest says the U.S. has not done enough in the wake of the international response. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)