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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Soon, Trump Returns To U.S. After China Trip; Controversy Around Trump Health Official; Kash Patel's VIP Snorkel Trip; Supreme Court Tosses Out Bid To Restore Virginia's Dem-Leaning Congressional Maps; Hundreds Attempt To Climb Mt. Everest Despite Risks. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 15, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, President Trump set to arrive back in these here United States soon after a whirlwind trip to China. But the two days of meetings ended without any real agreements in significant ways on key issues. So, is the president bringing home any wins?
Plus, as the White House tried to reassure the public that the Hantavirus outbreak is under control, they rolled out a physician who, until recently, specialized in penile implants and hosted a YouTube show called Erection Connection. Why was this doctor, who has little public health experience and a history of promoting conspiracy theories, given this job?
[18:00:04]
Also, a new report in the Associated Press detailing how FBI Director Kash Patel spent some downtime when visiting Hawaii last summer allegedly going on a VIP snorkel trip at the Pearl Harbor Memorial, where more than 900 sailors and Marines killed in combat are entombed. The reporter who broke this story joins us live ahead.
And first on CNN, Colorado's Democratic governor reveals he is going to grant clemency to election denier Tina Peters. She's the Republican former election clerk who was imprisoned for allowing unauthorized people access to voting machines in 2021. So, why is the Democratic governor doing this now? Is he caving to Trump? Well, hear his explanation ahead.
The Lead tonight, President Trump returning from his high-stakes summit in China with no major trade deals in his back pocket, no consequential breakthroughs on tech or fentanyl or the Iran war. But the president did take time on Air Force One to post on Truth Social about other matters, such as plans for a so-called National Garden of American Heroes, another D.C. project, admiration for a golden statue of himself located at his golf resort in Florida, and reaffirming his desire for a new ballroom, or, as he put it, China has a ballroom, and so should the USA.
Now, China did appear to get some wins. Trump says he is considering lifting sanctions on Chinese companies that are buying Iranian oil as the Iran war drags on, and despite the fact the U.S. is bound to the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act to provide Taiwan with weapons to its -- defend itself, the president would not commit to a future arm sale to Taiwan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We discussed Taiwan, you know, the whole thing with the arms sales. It was in great detail, actually. And I'll be making decisions. But, you know, I think the last thing we need right now is a war that's 9,500 miles away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins now joins us. Hey, Kaitlan. Did the president walk away from the summit with any big wins?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think in the president's mind, relationships are everything, the interpersonal relationships that he has with world leaders, and obviously we've seen what happens when those go south. He's walking away feeling good about that, especially with President Xi, someone that that relationship has ebbed and flowed at certain times, especially during the pandemic when he was in office the last time. And we saw that on display, you know, in public during this summit.
But in terms of concrete deliverables that he's walking away with, I mean, what the president said about tariffs was that they had not discussed that at all as they were in this meeting, as Xi was going into it, you know, with the upper hand in terms of the Supreme Court decisions and the court rulings on the president's tariffs that had happened in that, in the weeks and months before this visit took place.
And then on Taiwan, you know, listening to those comments by the president there, where I was watching this entire back and forth with the reporters who were on Air Force One, and the president made very clear that he is rethinking arms sales to Taiwan. And that he's looking at them differently in terms of the importance that he said President Xi attached to that during their conversation, where he said arms sales were something they discussed.
But then the president's comment there that, you know, a war isn't needed that's 9,500 miles from the United States. I believe it was David Sanger on the plane who followed up with, you know, that this was a proposal by the U.S. to have these arms sales to Taiwan, something that a group of bipartisan senators have written a letter to the White House about because they are asking questions about why it's so delayed. That obviously was a key moment there in that meeting.
And then, Jake, I think the other question is, that the president is returning to that's affecting Americans, are the gas prices that you're seeing, and the sky high nature of them that has only gone up since this war started. And what's not clear to us from what we heard from the president or from what we've heard from White House officials, is whether or not Iran, or China's committed to, to try to talk to Iran about getting any of the U.S. demands across the table. I mean, one thing they said in their joint statement was, China agrees the Strait of Hormuz should be open. They agreed that Iran should not get a nuclear weapon. But in terms of actually resolving this war that many experts have likened to a stalemate at this point, it's not clear that China is going to get involved on that front and help on that.
And, obviously, as the president is returning to this, this war that's now in its 11th week, about to go into its 12th, that is a huge concern for Americans who are still right now paying more at the pump and paying more for everything else because of the war.
TAPPER: Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And, of course, don't miss Kaitlan on her excellent show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.
Let's bring in CNN Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator Rahm Emanuel, who was the former U.S. ambassador to Japan under President Biden. Rahm, what is your overall takeaway from this summit?
[18:05:01]
Who came out on top?
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, Jake, I would look at it as a different question in that sense because the president of the United States the whole notion of this being about stability in purpose of what? I mean, we know that China is a major taker and stealer of our intellectual property, involved in economic espionage. They recently -- both you had the Salt Typhoon and the Volt Typhoons, big cyber attacks on the United States. That's not stability. So, what is it the stability in service of?
I don't think the United States particularly got anything out of this. China got the ability to show to the president, lavish praise on him, but they're dogged in pursuing their strategic interests. We have a president who acts impulsive, short-term around him. China's not about personality, it's about strategic objectives. They're going to play the long game here, and each move is in service of one objective of making China a supreme power across the globe, and specifically in their region.
TAPPER: Are you concerned at all --
EMANUEL: And I think our allies are going to walk away in that --
TAPPER: Are you concerned at all about Taiwan? Are you concerned at all about the president's commitment to Taiwan?
EMANUEL: Look, I mean, I take a step back and I said this when I was ambassador. What concerns me is South China Sea, where the Philippines are, Vietnam, et cetera. While we were involved in Iran, China has done something they haven't done in six years. They started building another fake island there, claiming that as their personal water.
Philippines, unlike Taiwan, is a nation state and is also a treaty ally of ours, and we did nothing to defend them in this place and did nothing to log a complaint against China. In the same time, China has been on a nine-month course of economic coercion against Japan, which is our long pole in the Indo-Pacific. We have done nothing to defend them. I am concerned about Taiwan but there's a lot of other things that I'm concerned about around the region.
There are two goals here, Jake. Ours is to communicate. We are a permanent Pacific power and presence, and you can bet long on us, and that's what keeps our allies aligned with us. China, we are the rising power. America is declining. Either get in line or you're going to get the treatment.
Every country in that region of the Indo-Pacific wants the United States as a counterweight to China, and we are absent from that endeavor and losing allies fast who are now working on their own.
Remember, there's two activities going on where both the United States and China are the destabilizer. We export our political dysfunction, as you can see around the globe. We're pounding down on our allies. They are exporting their economic dysfunction from at home abroad, destroying other countries' steel mills and industrial base.
Though we are the two countries that are talking about stability are the biggest actors of destabilization across the globe, one political and one economic.
TAPPER: What is your assessment of where the U.S. is right now in the war with Iran? And do you get any sense that China is going to do anything to help the U.S., at least pressure Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz?
EMANUEL: Listen, where I'm at right now is there's both immediate and long-term. On the immediate, I'm very worried that there's an implied quid pro quo on the Taiwan arms sales to China pressing Iran on the Strait of Hormuz. Not explicit, not so any leader can say that was never a kind of a trade, so they can't get caught like that with their hand on the bloody knife, but there's an implied -- there's a sense to me that something between the arms sales to Taiwan is tied to what China will or will not do, actively forcing Iran to concede on the Strait of Hormuz.
Long-term, I think, in the area, you have basically a breakup I think that's going on. Iran has emerged stronger, that we had them cornered. I think this was a bad war, a war of choice, and it was a bad choice. Iran is emerging as the Persian Empire again. They still have a lot of problems at home, which is why we should not have done this and let those play out.
Second, you have a breakup in the Gulf countries. You have the UAE and Bahrain going one way, Qatar, Saudi Arabia starting to hedge against the United States and Israel in another way. And then you have the situation, the U.S. and Israel bogged down in something with no conclusion and no capacity to act on a strategic desire.
TAPPER: All right. Former Ambassador Rahm Emanuel, thank you so much. I appreciate it. President Trump says he also discussed people detained in China with Chinese leader Xi Jinping. Did President Xi make any promises to release any of them? The daughter of one of those detainees is going to join us live next.
Plus, a record number of permits were issued to climb Mount Everest this season, but many trips have already been derailed by dangerous conditions. A climber whose own trip inspired the film Everest, an author you've heard of, he's here to discuss ahead.
[18:10:02]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: We're back with our World Lead. President Trump is set to land back in the United States soon after his trip to China. Earlier on his flight, Trump spoke to reporters on Air Force One, and he confirmed that he and President Xi discussed political prisoners and their potential release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think he's giving very serious consideration to the pastor. The pastor is -- he said he's giving very serious consideration to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The Christian pastor Trump did not name there, but it's likely Ezra Jin. China detained him in October of 2025, along with dozens of other members of the Zion Church. This is part of a crackdown on Christians in the country.
Joining us now is the pastor's daughter, Grace Jin Drexel. Grace, thanks for being here. I'm sure it's horrible to have to talk about something like this.
[18:15:00]
I'm sure you were hoping even for news of his release today, but what was your reaction to hear that President Trump is considering -- I'm sorry, that President Trump said that Xi is considering releasing your father?
GRACE JIN DREXEL, DAUGHTER OF PASTOR EZRA JIN: Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And, honestly, this has just been the miracle that we've been praying for since my father's detention. I mean, there are so many things on the president's agenda. And just to get to that level, it's been more than that we can have hoped for, so we're just so grateful to be mentioned at all, yes.
TAPPER: What is the Chinese government accusing your father of having done? And have you talked to him at all since he was detained last October?
DREXE: My father was detained under the charge illegal use of information online for his online sermons and services. So, that is against the religious freedom that the Chinese Constitution even promises its citizens. But we as family members have not had direct communication with any of those detained at all. Like you said, there are now still 17 others also detained, and none of our family members have been able to meet with them, talk with them, or even have like phone calls with them.
TAPPER: Can you explain to our viewers what the Zion Church is and why the Chinese government is arresting Christians?
DREXEL: Yes. So, my father started Zion Church in 2007. It's become one of the largest independent or underground house church in China. That means we are not under the control of the Chinese Communist Party, and our decision, many of the sacred decisions of the church, such as how many people can be baptized, what can we preach on Sunday, et cetera, and that's the only thing that separates us from the big churches, the state-run churches that you see.
And because of that influence, my father's church has become one of the largest in China. And because of that influence, my father has been detained.
TAPPER: And why is the Chinese government cracking down on Christians other than the fact that communists tend to not like religion?
DREXEL: Yes. I mean, like you said, and part of it is because we're a religious entity, and in 2016 to 2018, we saw a first round of crackdown. And most recently in 2025 to 2026, we've seen so many pastors been sent to jail. There's been over hundreds of pastors now put to jail.
TAPPER: Just for preaching the gospel?
DREXEL: Just for preaching the gospel. But at the same time, we see a general tightening of Chinese society, and I think this is also part of that as well.
TAPPER: So, he's a pastor to hundreds, thousands of people. To you, he's a dad.
DREXEL: Yes.
TAPPER: Tell me something about him. What do you want people to know about him?
DREXEL: Yes. So my father is just the gentlest of souls. He's not a very confrontational person. He's actually not a very stereotypical Asian dad. He would give us hugs and tell us how wonderful we are, and he was just always so kind as a person, very humorous. And even while he's in prison, he's so optimistic and encouraging everyone. And I think much of that really comes down to his faith and the calm and the hope that he has in the Lord, and we just hope and pray that his faith will be able to sustain him in prison as well.
TAPPER: Sometimes President Trump watches the show, other times people show him clips. Is there anything you want him to know, if you want to talk to President Trump directly?
DREXEL: Yes. President Trump, we're so grateful that you have mentioned my father, and we've had bipartisan support from members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, and we're just grateful that you have mentioned my father. And now we hope and pray that President Xi Jinping will also have a softening of heart and will release my father and allow him to come and join us. Thank you.
TAPPER: Yes, let's hope so. Let's pray so. Thank you so much. Grace Jin Drexel, really appreciate it. Have hope. Have hope.
DREXEL: Thank you.
TAPPER: I've interviewed other people like you, and their loved ones have gotten out. It has happened.
DREXEL: Yes. Thank you so much.
TAPPER: I'm sure it's awful, but --
DREXEL: Yes.
TAPPER: -- keep praying.
DREXEL: Thank you.
TAPPER: CNN's KFile uncovered some new details about one of the doctors who led the federal government's Hantavirus press conference this week. Turns out this doctor has a history of promoting conspiracy theories, has little public health experience, and until recently specialized in some interesting medical devices. Those details are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
TAPPER: We're back with our Health Lead. The CDC today updated its guidance for the deadly Hantavirus outbreak, saying that those at high risk of infection can quarantine at home as long as they isolate, avoid travel, and wear a mask. And as the Trump administration is seeking to reassure Americans that the risk of spread of the Hantavirus is low, one of its public faces leading the government response is facing some scrutiny over his credibility, specifically controversial, if not hyperbolic, comments he's made in the past, many of them focused on abortion, COVID restrictions, transgender individuals, religion, and what he described as wokeism in medicine and government.
Admiral Brian Christine is now assistant secretary in the Health and Human Services Department and head of the Public Health Service Corps. He took the job right out of private practice as a urologist who specialized in penile implants in Alabama and hosted a podcast called Erection Connection.
CNN's KFile went through the doctor's past shows, appearances, and online posts and found Christine pushed theories of a pandemic government plot. He compared the Biden administration to Nazi Germany. He denied the efficacy of the COVID vaccine despite the evidence that it prevented millions of deaths.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government and the left have used the pandemic to control people. And so when I say that, what I mean is that we have been forced as a society to take a vaccination that ultimately was proved not to prevent the disease.
There is no question that the pandemic was used to influence the outcome of the 2020 elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Oh, boy. Andrew Nixon, a spokesman at the Department of Health and Human Services, told CNN that, quote, Admiral Christine remains focused on executing President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's agenda to make America healthy again and deliver on President Trump's executive order to protect our children against chemical and surgical mutilation, unquote. KFile also uncovered Christine denying that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, which, of course, he did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of this was done to scare people and to make them believe that voting in person was danger during the pandemic, and this allows ballot harvesting and the use of illegal ballots, and there's no question this influenced the outcome of the 2020 election. Just watch 2000 Mules.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: 2000 Mules is the long-debunked election fraud conspiracy film whose distributor later issued an apology and removed it from circulation.
Joining us now to discuss, Dr. Ashish Jha, former White House COVID response coordinator. Dr. Jha, good to see you again.
Based on his history, how much do you trust Dr. Christine in this new role?
DR. ASHISH JHA, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL: Yes, Jake. First of all, thanks for having me back. Look, the early parts of any outbreak are most essential, and, unfortunately, that's not a good time for on-the-job training. And so he has no experience here. So, even under the best of circumstances, you'd be worried. And then given his lack of understanding of infectious diseases, as witnessed by those comments, I am particularly worried that he's not the right guy for the job.
TAPPER: We know that the COVID vaccine did indeed help prevent millions of deaths. It was a fantastic accomplishment by President Trump, Operation Warp Speed. What does it tell you about this administration that they would give a high-powered role to somebody who just rejects that evidence?
JHA: Yes. You know, it's still a head-scratcher for me. I mean, I think it was one of President Trump's signature initiatives throughout his entire presidency, certainly during the pandemic, and it was extraordinarily successful. And not only, you know, do we have Dr. Christine in this role, but we also have Secretary Kennedy, who has badmouthed Operation Warp Speed, has, you know, really downplayed the -- actually more than downplayed, has said false things about the COVID vaccine that were all developed. So, it's very puzzling what -- how it is that President Trump has tolerated all of this.
TAPPER: And right now, we should note during this Hantavirus outbreak, which thankfully so far appears to be at least somewhat contained as of now, three of the nation's most powerful public health positions are either vacant or operating under temporary leadership. This includes the surgeon general, the CDC director, the NIH director is also the CDC director, acting CDC director, the FDA commissioner was just fired. What risk does this pose to America's medical field and overall health?
JHA: Yes. Well, we're actually seeing this right now with the Hantavirus outbreak. Thankfully, as you said, this is not going to end up becoming a pandemic, and so it's not a full-on crisis. But even here, I'm having people across the political spectrum reach out to me and say, what's going on, how do we understand this moment, because they're not getting that information from the government, because there's no one in the government to actually give that information in a credible way.
These agencies are fundamentally important to running our day-to-day operations, but certainly responding to outbreaks. And the fact that there's a lack of leadership leaves us all much more vulnerable.
TAPPER: Dr. Ashish Jha, thanks so much. Good to see you again.
Moments ago, Air Force One touched down at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, returning President Trump from his brief trip to China. We're monitoring to see if the president speaks to reporters when he gets off the plane. We'll bring you those updates.
Also, a new report details how FBI Director Kash Patel went snorkeling at the Pearl Harbor Memorial. The reporter who broke the story joins me live to explain next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
TAPPER: In our National Lead, an Iraqi man has been arrested and charged. He's accused of coordinating and planning at least 18 terrorist attacks in Europe that targeted Americans and Jews, all in the name of ending the Iran war.
Prosecutors are alleging that Mohammad Baqer Saad Dawood Al-Saadi was trying to, quote, further the terrorist goals of Kata'ib Hezbollah and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. They say, in addition to the attacks in Europe, Al-Saadi also coordinated two attacks in Canada and tried to coordinate terrorist attacks in the U.S., including against a New York synagogue. He appeared in court today but did not enter a plea.
Turning to our National Lead, FBI Director Kash Patel occasionally has drawn criticism for surfacing at events that for some seem like a stretch to, say, go with his official duties, for example, of course, when we saw him chugging beer and celebrating in the locker room with the U.S. hockey team after they won the Olympic gold medal last February in Italy. According to the FBI, Patel was in Italy for multiple official engagements.
But now, thanks to Associated Press National Security Reporter Eric Tucker and two of his colleagues, another example of an interesting pursuit by the FBI director is in the news. Thanks so much for joining us.
So, Eric, you discovered that Director Patel's trip to Hawaii, which is part of this Italy trip, included a VIP snorkel at the USS Arizona at the Pearl Harbor Memorial? What -- explain more.
ERIC TUCKER, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: So, what we learned was that during an official trip that Director Patel took, first he started in Honolulu. He then moves on to Australia and New Zealand, and then on the way back, that's when this VIP snorkel took place.
TAPPER: And what is a VIP snorkel? I mean, that's like -- it's not ground, but it's a holy area. I mean, all those hundreds of sailors and Marines are entombed in those ships, right?
TUCKER: That's right. So, our understanding is that this took place in the waters above the memorial, in the waters above where all these hundreds of sailors and Marines are entombed.
TAPPER: And I didn't even know people can snorkel there. I thought it was off limits to snorkeling.
[18:35:00]
TUCKER: Certainly to the general public, it is definitely off limits. But we did learn that apparently it was not a one-off with Director Patel, that there have been occasional dignitaries and military officials who have been afforded that opportunity.
TAPPER: What kind of reaction are you hearing from the FBI and I imagine from members of the military?
TUCKER: So, the FBI took pains to note that he was invited to the Pearl Harbor base by top regional military officials. And they say, look, he wasn't there for a party, he wasn't there to celebrate. He was there as part of an official engagement to which he was invited. So, that's been their response.
TAPPER: Have you heard from members of the military about this trip? I mean -- TUCKER: So, they were -- you know, we certainly followed up with them aggressively following the receipt of the public records request we got from the National Park Service, and they confirmed that, in fact, you know, they did arrange this and they, again said it was not an anomaly.
TAPPER: All of this does seem to fit into a bigger pattern for Director Patel in terms of he seems to be having a lot of fun on the job and doing interesting things, but that's not particularly what the job is.
TUCKER: That's right, Jake, and I think that's actually one of the things that really got us interested in this story is there does seem to be a pattern in which his travels blend professional responsibilities with leisure activities, and this did in fact seem to fit into that pattern.
TAPPER: Do we know if he was -- I mean, he likes to do a lot of things with people that are friends, or his girlfriend obviously is in the news a lot. Do we know if anyone else was on this snorkeling trip with him?
TUCKER: We can imagine that, you know, the team that was with him on this official trip to Australia and New Zealand might have been with him, but we don't know who else went into the water. And, in fact, in the email addresses that we got back from the National Park Service, the email addresses were all redacted, so we don't know.
TAPPER: What did the FBI have to say about any of this?
TUCKER: So, you know, obviously they were pretty defensive, and they indicated that their belief that this was not a story in part because they believed that this was, you know, a professional engagement that he had as part of the trip.
I should note, Jake, though, as part of our due diligence, we did canvas every former FBI director since the 1990s. And although other former FBI directors have visited the Pearl Harbor base, none has snorkeled in the area, and I thought that was an important detail to include in the story.
TAPPER: Interesting. All right, Eric Tucker, thanks again.
California's Democratic governor has just commuted the sentence -- I'm sorry, Colorado's Democratic governor has just commuted the sentence of a Republican election denier. He explains his reasoning exclusive to CNN, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our Politics Lead. Colorado's Democratic Governor Jared Polis just announced that he is going to reduce the sentence of Tina Peters. The 70-year-old former election clerk is now serving a nine-year sentence after she was convicted of criminal charges related to efforts to prove that Trump actually won the 2020 election that President Biden won.
Governor Polis shared this news exclusively with CNN's Isaac Dovere, who joins us now. Isaac, how did the governor come to this conclusion?
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes. Well, when I spoke to him a couple hours ago, what he said to me is that he's been paying a lot of attention to this, talking to a lot of people, but he was really struck by what the Court of Appeals in Colorado found, which is that the judge, in doing the sentencing, talked about her crime, but also talked about a lot of other stuff related to the 2020 election denialism.
Peters was convicted of going into a room in Colorado and bringing someone in there where there were voting machines. But the judge, in Polis' mind and the Court of Appeals' mind, made it into a bigger thing and gave her a harsher than fair sentence. And so his feeling is that his job as governor is to try to correct that.
He kept saying to me that there's no problem with free speech. She can say whatever she wants, even if he doesn't agree with it, but that can't be used against her in making the sentence bigger for the crime.
TAPPER: Yes. And just to be clear, she let that individual -- she turned off the security cameras, let that individual look at the election machines, but this is in May 2021.
DOVERE: Right.
TAPPER: The election was long over. Biden was the president. So, it wasn't about trying to overturn it. It might have been about trying to falsely prove that Trump actually won, but not part of that.
Tina Peters gave a statement as part of all this. What did she have to say?
DOVERE: Yes. She submitted a clemency request, and in that had a statement that said this, I made a mistake four years ago. I misled the secretary of state when allowing a person to gain access to county voting equipment. That was wrong. Going forward, I will make sure that my actions always follow the law.
Now, what you don't see in that is, I broke the law, or admitting guilt. I said to the governor, usually in clemency decisions there is some search for contrition or -- and he said to me that, yes, that's taken into account, and he read that statement to me, and he said, that gets part of the way there. And -- but he said, he just kept coming back, she can't be punished for this. Democrats, Republicans should have the belief in free speech. He said to me that -- I said, she doesn't seem repentant at all. She keeps talking about all this stuff. What happens when she gets out of prison? And he said to me, I hope that she's no longer a martyr, that's she's just another person who believes in conspiracies on the street after this. I hope she doesn't believe in conspiracies, but I'm not holding my breath.
TAPPER: Right. Well, that's wise.
DOVERE: And in his letter making it formal, he says that she will be paroled June 1st. So, this is very soon.
TAPPER: Okay. Isaac, stay with me. I want to bring in the panel. Ashley Etienne, what message do you think the governor is sending with this, Democratic Governor Polis?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS: I think what he's doing is reinforcing what Democratic voters already think about Democrats, and that's we're weak. You know, we go around talking about how MAGA and Trump is a threat to American democracy. We've been talking about it since I ran opposition for Pelosi back when Trump won in '16 or '20 -- actually '16. And every time we have the opportunity to hold these folks accountable, we actually don't. This was the same criticism of President Biden, is that he didn't move fast enough, far enough to hold Trump accountable for his actions in the 2020 election.
So, for me, this is just sort of reinforcing not just this the stereotype of Democrats or this narrative about Democrats, but it also further legitimizes and normalizes attacks on our election.
TAPPER: What do you think?
MELIK ABDUL, GOP STRATEGIST: I think this was a matter of the law. Polis, he was for the past couple of years now, he's been talking about this because Republicans have been pressuring him. He's gotten calls from Donald Trump apparently. But he said that the sentencing was harsh. This is kind of more of a larger discussion that we saw with the January 6th defendants.
[18:45:04]
Some of them, or a number of them, many of who were actually on, you know, prosecuted on trespassing charges, had those charges actually elevated, and they ended up getting longer sentences.
In some of those cases, they actually -- those sentences were lessened or overturned. And so, to me, this just seems like another example of that. She's already spent four years in jail. And in this case, according to what you're saying, it isn't that she interfered with the election. And I think that probably is getting conflated with some of the other cases that happen on January 6th.
TAPPER: Yeah, what she did was in May 2021.
ETIENNE: But I mean, look at what happened with the folks that were released by Trump who committed the crime on the Capitol, right? The January 6ers. I mean, and so -- so Polis is --
ABDUL: She is the last person in prison related to anything about election denialism, which is part of why this this case has taken on a bigger stature and a lot of peoples minds, including President Trump.
TAPPER: Although there is the bomber, the would be -- RNC and DNC bomber, and they are trying to -- his attorneys are trying to argue that he should be pardoned because he was part of that. Anyway, let me turn to Louisiana because tomorrow Republicans are
going to head to the polls and ultimately answer the question, will President Trump's endorsement of a different candidate take out the incumbent Republican senator, Bill Cassidy, who has publicly defied Trump?
Senator Cassidy was asked about his relationship with President Trump earlier today on CNN.
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SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I'm not claiming the president loves me. No, but you can work with people even if you don't love each other if you got a common goal. And my goal is to make my country and my state and everybody who lives here better off.
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TAPPER: What do you think? What's going to happen?
ABDUL: Well, we don't know. You know, he's an incumbent senator. He's very popular. He has the NRSC and other Republicans backing him.
I think the big thing here, we saw what happened in Indiana, and there was a lot of discussion about the momentum behind Donald Trump with his endorsements in Indiana. Indiana was a little different because you had state level representatives who were simply outspent. They couldn't keep up.
This is a little different. So I think this will be this in Kentucky will be the first major test of whether or not Trump has long coattails. I suspect -- I'm a Cassidy guy, so I actually hope that he wins. You know, I'm kind of working with him to try to get him in the office.
But I think this will be the first real test, not Indiana. This will be the first real test of Donald Trump's coattails.
TAPPER: What do you think?
DOVERE: But it's another reminder of how the Republican Party should function according to Donald Trump, which is not about loyalty back and forth. It's about obedience to him, right?
This really tracks back to things that when Cassidy voted for the impeachment, impeachment, and that doesn't matter, that he did all the things, including he's a doctor. He had a lot of reservations about Kennedy being at the health department.
ABDUL: And voted to confirm him.
DOVERE: Voted to confirm and went through.
ABDUL: He did that.
DOVERE: Right, all of that stuff. And it still is never good enough for Donald Trump. And that is something that the Republican Party has to continue to grapple with, including thinking about how going into the midterms as the president's approval ratings are pretty low in the nation overall.
ADBUL: Midterms and beyond.
DOVERE: Yes, but for those house members and senators and candidates running, how much they distance themselves from Trump with the -- though it may be. Work better for them in a general election crowd, it might kill them with the Republicans because of how Trump will respond.
ETIENNE: No, I mean, I think I agree with Isaac. I mean, this is going to be the test of whether or where the voters stand on Donald Trump. He is actually on the ballot in this particular race. Republicans will say, oh, well, you know, the midterms, Trump is not on the ballot, but actually in Louisiana, he is on the ballot. So it'll be -- it'll be interesting to see if voters sort of indict the president by going with Cassidy or not.
If it's an indication of how people feel within the Republican Party about the direction that this president is taking the country, we'll see in this election.
TAPPER: When it comes to November, of course, it's going to be a different crowd than a Republican primary. It's going to be a general election crowd. And Republicans officeholders are grappling with how to talk about the fact that gas prices are so high, in addition to some other places where there's inflation.
Here's Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio. He was asked last night about surging gas prices across the country.
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REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): And yeah, we want the gas prices to come down, but we don't want this country, this regime having nuclear capability.
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TAPPER: So that -- that's basically the Republican argument. Yes, gas prices are high. We want them to come down. But the Iran was going to have a nuclear weapon, and that really would have been destabilizing, et cetera.
It doesn't seem as though voters are buying it, though. What do you think?
ABDUL: As a native southerner, Mississippian, that dog ain't going to hunt.
TAPPER: Yeah.
ABDUL: So, they can continue to say that over and over again. And we saw something similar in the Biden administration, where they were refusing to believe that. And it's not what the macroeconomics are. It's how people feel. How people feel is how they vote.
Even if the numbers were getting better under Joe Biden, people didn't feel it. And I think that the Republicans have to understand it doesn't matter what's happening in Iran, it doesn't matter what you're doing with DEI and suing all of these schools. People care about their pocketbooks, and they're going to go to the polls, not on Iran.
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They're going to go to the polls on gas prices, food prices, and all of these other things. It's the standard when we have elections.
TAPPER: Yeah.
ETIENNE: You're absolutely right. And 70 percent of the country right now is blaming the Trump administration's policies for their economic situation.
So, to your point, people live these economic conditions every day. It's not like Iran or somethings happening over there. This is what's actually happening in my life.
And the other question I think we should be asking, Jim Jordan, is not whether or not the gas prices should go down, but it's what he's going to do. And his party, who's in charge of both chambers are going to do to try to cut down these prices and lower prices right now. To me, that is the real urgent question is, what is Congress going to do? They've got two branches, three branches of the government to actually do something about these issues.
TAPPER: Thanks, everyone. Appreciate it.
We have some breaking news out of the U.S. Supreme Court which moments ago tossed out an emergency request for Virginia -- from Virginia Democrats to reinstate the new congressional maps. Those maps would have allowed Democrats to pick up as many four additional seats in the House of Representatives this year. But the Virginia Supreme Court overruled those new maps. This was a widely expected decision from the U.S. Supreme Court.
My next guest was on the tragic journey that inspired the film "Everest". Jon Krakauer is here, 30 years since he summited the mountain to weigh in on this year's deadly climbing season, and how the trek has or has not changed in the last three decades.
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TAPPER: In our world, Mount Everest's 2026 spring climbing season is underway. Nepal's department of tourism issued a record breaking 492 permits this season. A total of five -- a total of 15 climbers have reached the summit so far, but the mountain has already seen several fatalities this season, including the death of Phura Gyaljen Sherpa, a young guide who slipped and fell into a crevice near camp three. Here to discuss all of this is the author of the fantastic book, "Into
Thin Air", Jon Krakauer, and several other fantastic books I should note.
But anyway, Jon, you published "Into Thin Air" 30 years ago, and the book details your harrowing experience on Mount Everest during a deadly 1996 climb.
For viewers who aren't familiar with your story, briefly walk them through it so they know to pick up the book and read it.
JON KRAKAUER, AUTHOR, "INTO THIN AIR": Yeah, it was one of the early guided expeditions from the best guide out there. And, on summit day, a lot of us reached the top. A very violent storm moved in on the way down. Eight people died, including four of the five people I reached the summit with.
And it was a horrible catastrophe that can be attributed to bad luck, but also a cascade of really bad decisions. And it, I wrote my book into thin air, thinking it would dissuade people from ever wanting to be guided up Everest. And it had the opposite effect. It actually was one of the guy owners of a guide service that it was the best advertising he could ever get.
And it was like, it, it drew climbers to Everest, like gamblers to a slot machine. So I -- you know, and I suffered greatly from PTSD survivors guilt afterwards. So yeah, I have very complicated feelings about that event to this day. It hasn't been a day in the last 30 years I have not thought about that expedition.
TAPPER: It's one of the great -- one of the greatest books ever written by one of the greatest authors alive today.
You were the 621st person in history to summit Mount Everest. This season alone, more than 400 climbing permits were issued. What do you make of what's going on? Do you see this? Just as the commercialization of Everest?
KRAKAUER: Oh, yeah. It's the commercialization of Everest. And I have to say, ever since gotten a lot safer when I climbed Everest in 1996, the record was for every five climbers who reached the summit, one -- one died. Now, last year was the safest record, safest season on record in terms of summits for death per summit last year, five people died. About 850 reached the summit. So, you know, those seem like pretty good odds.
But I would -- I would warn people that if those same odds were applied to, say, the New York City marathon last year, 409 people would have died in the marathon, which would not be considered an acceptable number by anyone, ever. It's still really dangerous.
They're a lot safer than it was before because clients are given a lot more oxygen. They're required by law. Now each client is required to have their own sherpa guide. Many like to have too many need more sherpas because if they use a lot of oxygen someone's got to carry it up there for them. So, on paper, Everest is safer than ever. But there's still tremendous
risk from mass casualty incidents like happened in 2014, when an avalanche, one of these ice -- you know, big chunks of ice the size of a mansion came down and an avalanche struck 26 climbers, killed 16 of them, all of whom were Nepali high-altitude workers.
So, Everest is still dangerous. This year, especially because you mentioned those 400-some climbers. You got to double that number because each of those climbers, those clients has a sherpa with him and sometimes two. So, there will be a thousand climbers going for the summit in the next, oh, 10 days, 15 days. They're sort of the -- first ropes were put up on the summit only a couple of days ago.
And the big news is that the first two weeks of the climbing season, you couldn't go up through the Khumbu Icefall because it was too dangerous. Hanging serac. So -- so the whole climbing season has been delayed by two weeks. It means these thousand climbers are all going to be heading for the summit in the same brief windows.
And that's dangerous. There's going to be -- there's likely to be a lot of crowding, which makes me really nervous. I think it probably makes everyone up there nervous. But, you know, that's -- that's the reality.
TAPPER: Jon Krakauer, thank you so much. It's an honor to have you on the show.
Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on CNN.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
