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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Police Say, Three Adults Killed In San Diego Mosque Shooting; Focuses On GOP Opponents Despite Dismal Poll Numbers; Rare, High-End Tornado Threat Issued For Central U.S.; 3.5 Million Pages Of Epstein Files On Display At NYC Exhibit; "The Boys" Says Farewell. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 18, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we are following breaking news. Three people, including a security guard, adult males, killed in a shooting today at the largest mosque in San Diego. The San Diego police chief crediting that security guard with playing a vital role in decreasing the severity of the attack, saying the shooting could have been much worse without him.

[18:00:08]

Two teenage suspects, 19 and 17, were found dead in a car near the mosque. They appear to have been the shooters, and they appear to have died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds, according to law enforcement authorities. San Diego Police say they're investigating the shooting as a hate crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF SCOTT WAHL, SAN DIEGO POLICE: Because of the Islamic Center location we are considering this a hate crime until it's not. And at this point, we're going to work closely with the FBI to make sure that we are matching all the resources that we need for this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN Senior Correspondent Josh Campbell. He's also a former FBI agent. Josh what more are we learning about this investigation?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I'm glad you just played that sound from the police chief because that answered a major question that we had today, and that was whether they believe that the suspects here may have been affiliated with the mosque, or these were just outside actors who were coming there to try to conduct some type of attack. The chief's saying that they are indeed treating this as a hate crime right now as they work to learn more information. He said they're bringing in the FBI as well to assist with this investigation.

We learned a lot of details about the timeline that happened in San Diego, northern part of the city, where authorities say that they received reports of gunshots. Within four minutes, police were on scene. They say that they rolled up toward the mosque, and they saw three men that were deceased on the ground. Those are believed to have been victims, including that security guard that the police chief said he believed played such a role, a major role in this not being even more catastrophic.

Now, the police chief said that as officers were making entry into the mosque, they began to receive reports of another shooting at another area nearby. Officers then responded. They say that they encountered a landscaper who said that he was shot at, but he was not struck.

But here is probably the most bizarre aspect of this entire incident thus far. Authorities say that they found a vehicle. Inside were two men, age 17, age 19, both believed to have died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds, both believed to have been the suspects in the shooting.

Now, I've covered shootings a long time, and as you mentioned, I worked as an FBI agent before. Rarely do you ever have two shooters that are involved in some type of attack. We have seen it in some situations, but this appears, at least according to authorities preliminarily, that these are two suspects that they believe were involved in the shooting, both dying in the same car at their own hands.

So, it raises a lot of questions. Why were they there? What was the motive here? Were they attempting to cause just indiscriminate mass loss of life at this Muslim house of worship? We don't yet know if the people that were shot may have been targeted. Bottom line, a lot of questions on the table right now, Jake, that authorities still have to work to try to identify.

The fact that they know their ages tells us that they are far along likely in identifying who they are. That is always a big question in the immediate aftermath of a shooting, is fully identifying who the suspect is. The fact they know their ages, that tells us they likely have identification. They can start to try to work back to determine if there is indication of a possible motive.

And then the last thing, Jake, which you and I cover these so often, sadly, one thing authorities will try to work to determine, were these two people actually known to law enforcement before particularly on the hate crime side of the house when it comes to investigations. Did their names surface in any other investigations? Authorities want to rule out that anyone else -- that there wasn't anyone else who might have been involved in this.

These two people are deceased. There will not be a prosecution, but, again, they're trying to rule out whether anyone else may have known what was about to happen.

TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell, thanks so much. Let's bring in Frank Figliuzzi. He's a former assistant director at the FBI's Counterterrorism Division.

Frank, we know very little about the suspected shooters beyond their age of 17 and 19. Where does the investigation into the motive for the shooting start? FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE DIVISION: So, Jake, the most immediate question right now for law enforcement is whether or not this is truly over. By that, I mean, are there potentially any other accomplices or co-conspirators that could do harm to the public? Right now, it appears that's not true, but they need to wash that out.

As to motivation, look, this is interesting because we're quick to categorize in law enforcement and the media. Is this a school shooting? Is this a hate crime? Is this about a mosque and hatred of Islam? What is this? And that categorization can get in the way. And what I mean by that is usually in school shootings, there's some connection between the suspects and the school. Maybe they used to attend. Maybe their parent worked there. However, in a hate crime, there may be no connection to the target because it's simply a hatred of what that target represents.

So, they got to figure that out as they go about going through all of the devices of these two individuals.

[18:05:01]

Was there a connection? What motivated them? Were they inspired, and if so, by whom? And that's going to involve a lot of forensic technology.

TAPPER: How surprising is it that there are two suspects in the shooting and they both appear to have died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds?

FIGLIUZZI: As Josh said correctly, this is rare. Now, you think back to the Columbine High School shooting in Colorado, of course, that involved two suspects, but, boy, I'm having a tough time coming up with many other examples of that. So, conspiring to do it and then, Jake, possibly conspiring to take their own lives when they felt confronted is something you do not see very often.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks, Frank. I appreciate it.

I want to bring in Ammar Campa-Najjar. He attended this mosque as a child. He's now running for Congress as a Democrat in a nearby California Congressional district.

Ammar, first of all, my deepest condolences on this horrific act of violence of, apparently of bigotry and hatred going to your community, especially to a place that you actually personally worshiped. What was your reaction when you heard about this attack?

AMMAR CAMPA-NAJJAR (D), CALIFORNIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Complete shock, Jake. You know, I went to school there as a young kid. You know, there are kindergartners that go to this school. I went there from first to second grade, then came back for middle school. Between then, I was actually in Gaza, and I came back in August of 2001, and the next month was 9/11, and it horrified all of us, right, the attacks on our country, and it was a tough time for this community as well. And, you know, I just can't imagine what these young children were going through. Thankfully, all of them were safe. We've heard that three adults were killed. We're trying to figure out who they are. One of them might be somebody that I know. And so just deeply devastated, grateful to local authorities for what they've done and I hope this could unite all of us to stand up against hate in all of its forms, especially Islamophobia, but not just there. There's hate across communities where there's anti-Semitism or Islamophobia.

And you, know, I went to that school. I went to -- you know, when I heard that there was -- where they had gone, where the gunman had gone, I remember where those places are, what those classrooms were, and I was thinking, well, that's where the kindergartners are, and that's where the second graders are, and that's where we recited, you know, our worship.

And so I'm just deeply devastated and heartbroken about what's happened, and it's deeply traumatizing for so many of us.

TAPPER: I'm so sorry. It's so awful. The school, just to get a little bit more of an idea, and thank God that none of the kids were hurt. It's K-8 or something like that?

CAMPA-NAJJAR: That's right.

TAPPER: Okay.

CAMPA-NAJJAR: And.

TAPPER: So, so horrible. That must have been the first thing that came to your mind is these poor kids. We saw some video of kids being -- It's now a sadly familiar image of kids holding hands and being escorted out of a place like this. And it's just so sad that that's now part of their memories.

Police say they're treating this as a hate crime unless proven otherwise. What needs to happen now in the country to make sure that the Muslim community feels safe where they worship?

CAMPA-NAJJAR: Yes. We just need to wrap our arms around the Muslim community, show our love and support. You know, whatever the motives are, it represents the darkest part of humanity, but the Muslim community represents some of the best in us. They serve in our military alongside me and my shipmates. They contribute to our economy and way of life. They love our country. And I hope this could be a time for all of us to band together.

And, you know, one of the imams spoke, and he said, look, hatred of all of its forms, and he extended himself beyond just his community. And so I hope that that's what we are able to do during this moment because we know violence begets violence. We know that when there's an incident like this, there could be copycats or others who will try to do the same thing to the Muslim community.

So, I hope we can all stand united and call out all forms of hate, whether it's any kind of xenophobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, hatred against immigrants. You know, we have ICE in this community as well, training at a shooting range in our area.

So, I hope this allows us to come together and I'm relieved that no children were killed, and I can't believe I have to say that sentence.

TAPPER: Yes.

CAMPA-NAJJAR: I'm worried about who was, and it's a tragedy in and of itself, but I think we have to come together and just not let the voices of division, beginning from the very top of our government on down, we have to be better than those voices.

Again, we don't know what the motive is, but, you know, we've seen a lot of violence happening across our country. We know that there's a disease of despair, there's mental health issues, especially with young men in our communities across the country.

[18:10:05]

And whatever the cause is, I would be surprised if it wasn't also motivated by some mental health issues, as well as maybe another agenda as well.

TAPPER: Yes. Ammar Campa-Najjar, thank you so much. Peace be upon you, and our thoughts and prayers with the Muslim community in the United States today. What a horrible, horrible thing.

We're going to stay on top of this breaking news out of San Diego, where three people were killed at the city's largest mosque. We expect to get another update from law enforcement in an hour or two. We're going to bring you those details as we get them.

Plus, the prison guard on duty when Jeffrey Epstein died, that prison guard testified on Capitol Hill today. One of the lawmakers who questioned the guard joins me live ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump on a tear, successfully taking revenge once again on his political foes within the Republican Party, even as polls show his standing with American voters as a whole is getting rather dire for President Trump. Latest evidence, a New York Times/Siena poll, which has the president's approval rating at a second term low of 37 percent approve, 59 percent disapprove.

But rather than looking to build himself up, the president seems rather focused right now on taking down some of his fellow Republicans insufficiently loyal.

[18:15:08]

The latest victim, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, who voted to impeach the president for the Capitol riot, he lost his primary over the weekend.

Trump is also now calling for a Republican to challenge Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert because she was campaigning for Kentucky Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, who faces a primary challenge tomorrow. Trump posted this attack on Massie late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'm in the Oval Office, and we're in a fight against the worst congressman in the history of our country. His name is Thomas Massie. He's from Kentucky. I hope you're going to put him out of business tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in Kentucky, where Congressman Massie's job is on the line. Jeff, what's happening during the final hours of this campaign?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, this is one of the most expensive primary races that ever has been held. More than $30 million has been spent, about two-thirds of that against Congressman Thomas Massie. So, that sort of sets the table here for all the attacks that are coming in, largely from the outside against him.

We saw something else very unusual today as well. The defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, taking a detour from his job at the Pentagon overseeing the Iran war, was here in Kentucky campaigning for Massie's opponent in this race as well. He's a Navy SEAL, a veteran.

And it's unusual for a defense secretary to engage in politics. He said he was here campaigning in his personal capacity, but he spoke in favor of Massie's opponent and called Massie an obstructionist.

TAPPER: Hey, thanks so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Ed Gallrein's record speaks for itself. Thomas Massie's record speaks for itself, too. Too much grandstanding, too few great votes, years of acting like being difficult is the same thing as being courageous. It's not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, we talked to Congressman Massie about that as well, Jake, and he said, look, he sees it as a sign of panic on the side of the White House and the campaign of Ed Gallrein that they're sending the secretary of war here, the secretary of defense here to campaign against him.

There's no doubt that Congressman Massie realizes he's in the fight of his political life, but he just wrapped up a rally here. It's a picnic, actually. People are enjoying barbecue. And he said the values that he learned right here in Lewis County Kentucky are what voters are most concerned about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I went to the kindergarten down the street. I went to the grade school here in Vanceburg. I went to the high school here, K-12. I learned a lot of good lessons here. And people don't bully me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, there is no doubt that this race is one of the closest in the country. It's been nationalized, there's no doubt about that, but voters go to the polls tomorrow.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Our political experts are here.

First of all, can I just say something? President Trump said that Massie's the worst congressman in the history of the country. I mean, Dennis Hastert was literally a child molester, okay? So, like he's not the --

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, G.W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION: There's a lot more than Dennis Hastert --

TAPPER: Well, I'm just saying, like he's not the worst. I mean, that's a -- I'm not praising him, but he's not --

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, there's also like Democrats he could say are worse.

DAVIS: No, right, there's both sides.

ALLISON: There's both sides, so I don't know.

TAPPER: I mean, we have a long history of awful members of Congress. Anyway --

By the way, Ashley and I were talking in the green room that could you imagine Rumsfeld during Iraq and Afghanistan going and campaigning?

TAPPER: Oh, my God.

ALLISON: Yes.

DAVIS: I mean, that's like a big deal in my mind, that a secretary of defense during a war --

TAPPER: Yes, during a war or not. Have we ever seen anything like that? I mean, people get criticized. I remember, you know, how criticized it was when retired General John Allen spoke at the Democratic convention, retired General Mike Flynn spoke at the Republican convention in 2016. They were retired. And here is an acting secretary of defense.

ALLISON: During a war.

DAVIS: During a war.

TAPPER: How is that even -- like I thought there was a thing called the Hatch Act. Well, that's what we were saying, there's a Hatch Act, but I guess if you declare that you're on personal time, it's not violating it. I mean, this is like doing things out front.

But the other thing is, I, which we were talking about is, listen, Massie's not an easy member no matter what, like put aside all the things that are happening.

TAPPER: People hate him. He doesn't vote the way you want.

DAVIS: But, no, he doesn't, he's not helpful at all one way or the other, but neither is Rand Paul, and that's what Kentucky likes. So, my other big thing is Trump's still in when Rand Paul's up for re- election. If Trump wins tomorrow, does he have someone run against Rand Paul?

[18:20:02]

TAPPER: Interesting. Maybe. And, look, this is all part of this vengeance is mine, sayeth the Trump tour. And, you know, five out of those seven Indiana legislators were defeated, Cassidy defeated. And I don't know what the polls are, but all the Republicans I know are saying Massie is a dead man walking. What do you think?

ALLISON: Trump is the Republican Party. He is very powerful, particularly in primaries.

I will just say it seems like some of these races where he's going in, they are very safe Republican districts. And so if you flash back to the last midterms when he also put his finger on the scale with a lot of candidates, they did not fare well in highly contested races. So, you think about that was Pennsylvania last midterm.

So, I mean --

DAVIS: Dr. Oz.

ALLISON: Yes, Dr. Oz, right? People --

DAVIS: Herschel Walker.

ALLISON: You know?

TAPPER: Oh, there was a ton of them.

ALLISON: There were a ton of them, and they were --

TAPPER: The Republicans should have recaptured the Senate.

ALLISON: Yes.

TAPPER: But he had backed all these people in competitive districts.

ALLISON: Yes.

TAPPER: But you're saying he's at least learned that lesson. ALLISON: He's not doing it in races where it's going to be at play in the --

TAPPER: So, thank God for small favors for your party then?

DAVIS: Yes. I mean, look, I mean, I don't think that -- I can't imagine any other time that you would have a president that would be this involved in some of these primary races. But in Massie's situation, I mean, he's just not helpful, no matter what. I mean, I couldn't imagine Nancy Pelosi having a Democrat like Massie.

TAPPER: No? And --

DAVIS: She would've got him in line.

TAPPER: The latest New York Times/Siena College poll numbers are just awful for President Trump, 37 percent approval rating. That's a second term low. Disapproval numbers on specific issues here, 69 percent disapprove cost of living, 65 percent disapprove war in Iran, the disapproval number on the economy, 64 percent, immigration, 56 percent. Ashley, how worried should Republicans be?

DAVIS: Well, here's what I always say. I don't think that Trump is going to change his process on Iran based on the midterm elections. And, personally, I do agree with that. Like if we're going to start the war in Iran, let's finish it. They've been bad actors for 47 years and want to kill us and Israel. So, let's finish that. And I don't think he cares at all about the midterm elections, at least with the House.

Now, if the Senate's truly in play, which a lot of people are thinking now, and we can walk through those races, I mean, that's a whole different story. But the House flipping, I mean, this is kind of what happened.

TAPPER: Ashley, before Democrats start gloating, before you start gloating, New York Times poll also shows 70 percent of voters dissatisfied with the Democratic Party, and among men, 79 percent. So, Democrats, I don't know that your party's going to have to do anything to improve to do well in the midterms, but those are not happy numbers either.

ALLISON: Yes. Donald Trump is doing his own dirty work on his own polling numbers, and so I think Dems need to pivot and start talking about what they are going to do for the American people. We've seen folks say that the system is not working for them under Democrats and Republicans. So, now is an opportunity for the Democrats to say, if we get power, this is what we will do, not just impeach Donald Trump, not just make him the bad guy, which he can be and easily is positioned that way, but they've got to tell people what they're going to do for them as well.

TAPPER: Yes.

DAVIS: Maybe they should read The Power Pivot, my book.

TAPPER: The Power Pivot.

ALLISON: Ah, I set you up for it.

DAVIS: You did.

TAPPER: Well, there it is. It looks very nice.

ALLISON: The Ashley.

TAPPER: Look at this. I love it.

DAVIS: The Ashley is rolling in.

TAPPER: Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

DAVIS: Yes.

TAPPER: Millions of Americans under threat of severe weather across the Midwest tonight, while in California, a quickly spreading wildfire is forcing residents to evacuate. CNN's team just arrived on scene as fire crews are racing to get the blazes under control.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: Our National Lead now, destructive storms in the Central United States are expected to peak today, bringing potential tornadoes, giant hail, dangerous winds, and flash flooding. The threat comes after more than two dozen tornadoes ripped through the region yesterday.

In California, meanwhile, a quickly spreading wildfire is forcing residents to evacuate in Simi Valley, which is north of Los Angeles, and that is where we find CNN's Nick Watt. Nick?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, this fire blew up from nothing to 700 acres-plus very fast, officials saying it was spreading dangerously quickly. Now, they have managed to somewhat get a handle on it thanks to air. They've got choppers. They've got planes. Luckily, the reservoirs are full. You remember that Palisades fire last January? There was a problem. There wasn't enough water. Plenty of water here, that has been a huge help. Also, those Palisades fire, those L.A. fires we saw last year, the winds were approaching 100 miles an hour. Here, the worst gusts have been 45 up on the ridge. That is key.

But the winds are always the problem here in Southern California. As happened today, they turn around, they start blowing offshore. These winds are dry, they're warm, and that is what causes the problems.

Now, the wind is falling, has been falling for the past hour or two. This house, of course, is lost, but firefighters were able to get here pretty quick, and they were able to save everything else in this little cul-de-sac here. So, 200-plus firefighters on the ground, as I mentioned, all those air assets managing to keep this fire at least away from most of the homes here.

Out here in the Simi Valley, you got a couple of hundred thousand people living, and it's always this interface that's the issue between these subdivisions and the scrubland.

Now, I noticed earlier, a lot of people have done, as they're told, and cut the vegetation between their house and the scrub, and that really works. You see where flames have come up, they've met this barrier where there's no fuel, and the houses are saved.

Listen, we used to have a fire season in California. It's now year- round. Looks like the next week or two we might see some more, so people will be on edge. But for now, it looks, Jake, as if this one, they're beginning to get it under control.

[18:30:03]

Back to you.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Watt. Thanks so much. Stay safe.

Moments ago, President Trump spoke about why he decided to hold off on attacking Iran, attacks he said the U.S. military was prepared to carry out tomorrow. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Back to the breaking news we started this show with, the deadly shooting at that mosque in San Diego, the Islamic Center of San Diego. Multiple law enforcements officials just briefed -- tell CNN that hate speech bigotry was scrawled on one of the suspect's weapons.

Let's get right to CNN's Josh Campbell. Josh, tell us more.

CAMPBELL: Well, San Diego police said a short time ago they were treating this as a hate crime until it's not, is how the police chief described it. But we're getting these critical new details about the alleged suspects in this incident. Multiple law enforcement sources tell CNN that one of the suspects in the shooting took a firearm from their parents' home, left a suicide note that contained writings about racial pride. The specifics of the language were not immediately clear.

But as you mentioned, we're also learning about what was actually on one of the weapons that was left behind at the scene.

[18:35:03]

Hate speech was scrawled on the weapon used in today's shooting. And, you know, that tracks with some of the past performative aspects of various attacks that we've seen where the alleged suspect or gunman wants people to know what the motive is.

Sometimes it's difficult. Authorities have to really bear down and work hard to try to figure out what was motivating something to do -- someone to do something. Here, it appears they're laying it out with a purported suicide note left at one of the suspect's home containing racial language, and racial language left on the barrel of the gun itself. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Josh Campbell. Thanks so much.

In our World Lead, just moments ago President Trump confirmed to CNN that he is calling off a new military attack on Iran that was set to happen tomorrow.

Let's bring in Senior White House Correspondent Kristen Holmes. And, Kristen, you were able to get a question to the president who said he called off the attack so that negotiations could continue. What else did he have to say?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. Well, the question was, you've been down this path before. You've had multiple countries ask you to change course in Iran, saying that they were on the precipice of some kind of negotiation or a peace deal, and nothing has come to fruition in terms of a deal. What makes this time different?

Now, of course, he ranted about all of the things that they have done, nothing related to a deal, but talked about the military talked about how they have taken care of Iran in terms of wiping out the military and the leaders. But then he also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I was called by these three countries, plus others, and they're dealing directly with our people and right now Iran, and there seems to be a very good chance that they can work something out. If we can do that without bombing the hell out of them, I'd be very happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And this, of course, just confirms the reporting we've had, which is that President Trump does not want to restart any kind of military strikes in Iran, but that he has grown increasingly frustrated, that he's looking for an off-ramp, but a diplomatic off- ramp.

Clearly, these countries and others have been reaching out to him. We know that there was high potential for retaliatory attacks from Iran on these three countries, which was what we've seen in the past, if President Trump was to restart those military operations.

One question he wouldn't answer, though, was how long he's willing to give Iran on a potential deal, to make a deal before he decided to resume those military operations if, in fact, he's going to do so.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

Epstein's survivors speaking today at a new gallery in New York which has printed the Epstein files into books, more than 3,000 volumes to be exact. One of the survivors joins us live next to share what she hopes comes from this exhibit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, the House Oversight Committee today deposed one of the last people who saw Jeffrey Epstein alive, his prison guard, Tova Noel. She was one of two officers on duty August 10th, 2019, the day that the convicted sex offender was found dead in his New York City jail cell.

Noel and the other guard were fired and charged with conspiracy and falsifying records for failing to check on Epstein, but the Justice Department dropped the charges under an agreement that included her cooperation with an inspector general review.

Democratic Congressman Suhas Subramanyam was one of the committee members who deposed Noel today behind closed doors. Congressman, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

So, Epstein's death was officially ruled a suicide. Do you believe that it was a suicide, and what role do you think this prison guard played, if any?

REP. SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM (D-VA): Yes, I do believe it was a suicide just based on this as well as other evidence we've gotten throughout this whole investigation. With that said, how was he able to commit suicide? That's the real question here. And, one, it was because of negligence on her part, but really she was part of a system that was negligent to begin with. There was a culture of not doing the protocols that were in place to prevent something like this.

And, two, Jeffrey Epstein was given preferential treatment. It was very clear, and something I learned even more during this interview today. He was given a CPAP machine, which had a long wire that he could've used to kill himself. He was given extra bed linens somehow, and she doesn't know how, and so that's how he killed himself, by hanging himself with the bed linens. And then he was also given lots of access to medications that no other prisoner was given.

And so it's pretty amazing, and you'd think, okay, well, we've solved this problem, but, no, we haven't, because Ghislaine Maxwell right now is in minimum security prison with basically an assistant, well, you know, following her around. And so the same problems that are in the Justice Department then are in it today, and so we haven't solved any of this and we need to.

TAPPER: Do we have any idea we how he got all those special treatments?

SUBRAMANYAM: She didn't know herself, yes. All she knew was that he had all these access to medications. She thought that was really bizarre and interesting.

TAPPER: Yes. SUBRAMANYAM: She didn't know why he of all people got this machine with this long cord to help him sleep apparently, and then she didn't know why he had extra linens. So, that's how he was able to hang himself.

TAPPER: What was the most important information you learned today?

SUBRAMANYAM: Just the preferential treatment and the fact that there was such a systemic problem in the correctional facility, and somehow a billionaire was able to get this preferential treatment and be able to game the system to take his own life and avoid the consequences. So, you needed both. You needed the preferential treatment and you needed the systemic issues.

And that's sort of the theme of this entire investigation is, the fact that our system is broken and billionaires are treated differently than the rest of the people.

TAPPER: That facility is a federal facility, right?

SUBRAMANYAM: It is, yes.

TAPPER: So, I mean, I would think that you could theoretically ask the -- whoever was the head of the Bureau of Prisons at the time and then just work your way up from Guard Noel's boss and the Bureau of Prisoners director and all the way and figure out somebody. Like somebody did that for him, right? Somebody was told, and I would think in that direction maybe you could --

SUBRAMANYAM: Yes, she pointed to the head of the facility, the manager of the facility as someone who would've had to sign off on these things. And so we're going to ask more questions about this. But just, generally, this is a huge problem. We need to fix this top to bottom.

TAPPER: Yes. But, I mean, like you see what I'm saying though, right?

SUBRAMANYAM: Yes.

TAPPER: I mean, somebody did that and somebody told that person to do it, and why, why were they told, hey, we need to treat this guy nice.

[18:45:02]

We need to have -- you know, so we don't want him having trouble sleeping.

SUBRAMANYAM: She doesn't know, and that's the beauty of this investigation. We ask one person questions and it brings up a whole new set of questions.

TAPPER: Yeah. The commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, sat before your committee earlier this month to answer questions about his past interactions with Epstein, which he had not been fully honest about. You called on him to resign. You claimed he was dishonest.

Was his testimony not honest?

SUBRAMANYAM: No. Well, he told us that he'd never sat down with Jeffrey Epstein after his first visit with him, and then he admitted that he went to his island and sat down with him and he said, oh, well, that's different because it was with my family. He still sat down with him. He was still in the same room with him two more times. And so he was not being honest with us.

I mean, he was playing with the English language and, you know, trying to say the definition of I meant something different. But the reality was he just didn't want to fess up to the fact that he wasn't honest in the first place.

TAPPER: All right. Congressman Suhas Subramanyam, Democrat of Virginia, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Right now in New York's Tribeca neighborhood, the entirety of the Epstein files, at least those who have been released, there's still a few million that have not are on display in the form of a public library dubbed the Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey Epstein memorial reading room. The exhibition, made up of 3.5 million pages and put together by the nonprofit Institute of Primary Facts, is free to anyone over the age of 16 to access.

Today, Epstein survivors were there to address the pain they say they've endured at the hands of the Justice Department and its handling of Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANI BENSKY, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Our government, and specifically the DOJ, has not done its job to pursue investigative leads. Yet again and again, survivors are always asked to do more. We're always asked to name the names. It's something that we hear over and over and over again.

And guess what? We have. We actually have to Congress, to the FBI in spaces behind closed doors many, many times. But clearly, that doesn't seem to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now is the Epstein survivor. You just saw there a strong woman named Dani Bensky.

Dani, tell us what it was like for you to walk into this exhibit.

BENSKY: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Jake. I mean, it is it really does blow the mind when you stand there amongst so many different files and just binders and binders of information. And to constantly hear that there are no investigative leads when I mean, within the first hour of us being there and each of us had ten minutes and we talked about a different topic and a different person. And basically within the first hour, I mean, there's so much that needs to be investigated. And we've been saying that from the very beginning. And I'd like to just say, you know, it's a partial release, so far. We

haven't seen the full release. I started today by talking about Maria Farmer's report, and it's only the first page that's even there. And she did name the names and we can't seem to find the rest of that report. So it's bittersweet to be in there.

TAPPER: So I know it's not fair to ask you for names because as you've noted in the remarks, you have told them to the FBI, you have told them to Congress, you have told them. And naming these names publicly exposes you to lawsuits and also to harassment.

But just to be clear. Can you describe without the names, can you describe things in the file, the files that you saw that that the Justice Department should be following up on?

BENSKY: Yeah. I mean, I think across the board, you know, women have been really scared to tell our stories. Outwardly because we are not moving through these legal channels and we need to, right?

So, I mean, within an hour, the first thing that we heard about, we talked about Mount Sinai and sort of what's gone on there and seeing that members of the medical community are totally violating their oath. And Eva Dubin's name is all over the place. It doesn't take that much more time to look into Virginia's deposition and see that her husband Glenn Dubin, is also all over the place, you know? So these are names that definitely need to be investigated.

We saw a text message about Leon Black where, there was a woman who -- it alluded to her being under extreme duress when she had to sign an NDA. That's an investigative lead that needs to be looked into. We had another moment where we heard from Richard Kahn assisting with large cash withdrawals, right? Like, these are all things that our government should be able to really look into, and theyre not looking into it.

And this is public information. This isn't me sitting here talking about my personal story. This is us opening a file and reading the file. We have said time and time again that its in the files. Please look in the files and nobody seems to want to do that. And so we're bringing the files to the American people.

TAPPER: This pop up gallery also has a display of the long standing friendship between Epstein and President Trump. The timeline charting their connections over the decades, the organization behind the exhibit says this is to create public outcry over the Justice Department covering up Trump's ties to Epstein.

What are your thoughts surrounding accountability for President Trump and for others who have had connections with Epstein?

BENSKY: I mean, we've said from the beginning, you know, every single time were on the show that its not political for us, but something that I do think stands out in this exhibit is the friendship between the two of them.

[18:50:04] And, you know, if you know your friends well, you know, what their proclivities are and what theyre doing behind closed doors.

So I do wonder if he -- if he knew anything. And I do believe that anybody that knows anything in this case needs to come forward.

TAPPER: Dani Bensky, as always, one of the bravest people out there. Thank you so much for being with us today. We really appreciate it.

BENSKY: Thank you so much, Jake. Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: One of TV's most stinging satires is coming to an end. Writer and creator of "The Boys", Eric Kripke, will be here after the break to discuss the show's legacy in connection to real life as its very last episode drops this week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go to your movie theaters and live your lives. Have fun. Ok?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think it really was Edgar and the mayor? Maybe Jake Tapper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was Homelander from the hit Amazon Prime TV show "The Boys". They're wondering if I set him up. And I did not.

But I am about to set up this interview with the showrunner of the boys, because the final episode of the hit show is set to air this Wednesday, marking the end of what may be the most subversive TV show on air right now.

Here now, the writer and creator of the boys, Eric Kripke.

Eric, thanks so much for being here. One of the major reasons for the show's subversiveness is these parallels between the characters and situations in real life. One very recent example is that there's a golden statue of Homelander revealed, and it was revealed the same week that a golden statue of Donald Trump was erected at his Doral resort in Florida.

Now, you obviously wrote and filmed this long before Trump's golden statue. What was your reaction?

ERIC KRIPKE, WRITER & CREATOR, "THE BOYS": I mean, it wasn't like a positive one. I wasn't sending high five emojis to anybody. It's -- it's just unsettling. It's, you know, you're -- we wrote it two years ago. We were basing it not even necessarily on the Trump administration, but like countries that had sort of slow authoritarian creep.

TAPPER: Here's a conversation, a recent one between Homelander and fellow soup Firecracker, who is something of a lackey to him from this season. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're supposed to worship me, love me, and me alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believed in you. Turns out, you don't believe in me. I need you to collect your things and leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It gets darker after that. And what's interesting about it is Firecracker has done everything to supplicate herself to him. She is the most obsequious of all of the superheroes.

And I wonder, were you thinking about, like, Trump cabinet officials like Kristi Noem or Pam Bondi when you wrote this?

KRIPKE: Yeah. And, I'd add to that, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene. I mean, when you're serving a narcissist, I'll just talk about Homelander. But when you're serving a narcissist, nothing is good enough. And eventually you'll be eaten and discarded. That's just how again and again in history, the people that have been close to strongmen, its just its the fate of people who, who hitch their wagons to dangerous narcissists.

TAPPER: Yeah. She's a devout Christian, and she -- I don't want to spoil anything, but she betrays her beliefs in order to worship Homelander. And this is a huge theme this season, the role of religion and fanaticism and using religion as part of the government. Here's a clip of where that fanaticism has led on "The Boys".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democratic church of America is to be the official national religion based around the one true god. Me. Great idea. I want every boundary between church and state dissolved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPPER: What made you so interested in this topic?

KRIPKE: You know, I think, I got really interested in this was and again, two years ago, this, the, the weaponizing of Christianity in the new apostolic reformation and this notion that, that Christianity is a -- the god given right of Americans as a Christian nation and that somehow they're totally brushing over the whole separation of church and state that was so crucial to the founders and so crucial to the country. And that Trump will be the leader to this new Christian golden age where the, the church and state borders will be dissolved.

And that obviously is terrifying and, and frightening and also misguided because, you know you know, Christianity is about love and charity and not to be weaponized for political ends. We have a character in the show saying since when is god American? And it's supposed to be for everybody. And so I think there's something just so cynical about weaponizing it.

TAPPER: Eric Kripke, thank you so much. Congratulations on an amazing run.

And you at home can watch the epic finale of "The Boys" this Wednesday on Amazon Prime. It drops.

Congratulations again, Eric.

KRIPKE: Thanks, Jake. Thanks for being a fan.

TAPPER: And you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram at CNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.