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The Lead with Jake Tapper

House Oversight Releases Transcript Of Closed-Door Interview Of Former Attorney General Pam Bondi; Epstein Assistant's Claims Prompt GOP Push For DOJ Inquiry; Sources: John Bolton Reaches Plea Deal Over Mishandling Of Sensitive National Security Info; DRC Ebola Outbreak Could Have Begun As Early As January; Judge Dismisses Murder Case Against Arkansas Sheriff Candidate Aaron Spencer; FCC Reviews School Internet Funding Amid Child Screen The Risks. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired June 04, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Don't forget you can now stream The Arena live or catch up whenever you want to. It is all in the CNN app. You can go ahead and scan that QR code on your screen if you need that. You can also catch up by listening to our podcast. You can follow the show on X and on Instagram.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Kasie, did you know that I had your QR code tattooed on my arm?

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TAPPER: We now know what former Attorney General Pam Bondi said to Congress behind closed doors. And we're about to tell you. The Lead starts right now. The transcript is out revealing exactly what Pam Bondi told lawmakers about the Epstein files and how she passed the buck to the man President Trump wants to succeed her. Now, Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, who could be officially nominated to attorney general at any minute now. And exactly one week out from the start of the World Cup, the feds cracking down on safety on the transit line of a major host city. Plus, a special report, CNN tracking the source of the latest Ebola outbreak going back to the epicenter as doctors reveal when they first saw troublesomes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We start with breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead. Brand new details now about the Justice Department's handling or mishandling of the Jeffrey Epstein files release. Moments ago, the House Oversight Committee released transcripts from last week's interview with former Attorney General Pam Bondi.

And when Bondi was confronted with questions about why the files were released with some victims' names unredacted, while some non-victims' names, powerful men, were redacted, she pointed the finger at the man whom Trump just said he will nominate to be her successor as attorney general, a gentleman by the name of Todd Blanche. At the time the files were being released, Blanche was Bondi's deputy attorney general. Bondi told the committee, quote, "Todd Blanche was in charge of the process and the entire release of the Epstein files," unquote.

Bondi also refused to answer whether President Trump directed her or her subordinates to take any official action related to Jeffrey Epstein or his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. Bondi, saying, quote, "I'm not going to discuss any conversations that I've had with the President on any matter." But all of this nonetheless is sure to put Blanche in the hot seat, as he is now set to step into Bondi's old role after Trump fired her back in April, reportedly frustrated that she was not aggressively enough prosecuting his political opponents and displeased with the department's mishandling of the Epstein file. So now Blanche, who was previously Trump's personal attorney, could take the reins if, if he's confirmed by the U.S. Senate.

And that could get interesting because when Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Republican of South Dakota, was asked if Blanche could have trouble getting confirmed, Thune said, it was, quote, "hard to say." Interesting.

Let's bring in our experts. We have CNN Chief Legal Affairs correspondent Paula Reid, CNN Senior National Enterprise Correspondent MJ Lee, and Elie Honig, CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

So, Paula, let's start with the big picture. What did Bondi have to say? What stands out to you in this transcript?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, she's incredibly polite and complimentary of her former deputy, but she makes it crystal clear that when it came to all things Epstein, Todd Blanche was in charge. He was in charge of the review of the files. The release of the files resulted in sensitive information and survivor names being revealed. Also, the whole Ghislaine Maxwell interview, she makes it clear he reached out, he set that up.

And she does compliment him, both his ethics, him as a person. But going forward, that's not going to help him in his high stakes confirmation hearing. Because now you have two of the biggest controversies in the second Trump administration, the handling of the all things Epstein and this weaponization fund. And they both have Todd Blanche's name on them. So when he goes ahead for his confirmation hearing, I would expect Jake Democrats are going to be reading portions of this transcript back.

And this has always been a liability for Blanche. As soon as he was tapped to be the acting Attorney General, sources inside the administration said to me, the only thing I can say about Todd Blanche is that he doesn't get us past the, quote, "original sin of Epstein." So this is going to be a liability for him. And this transcript doesn't help.

TAPPER: Elie Honig, President Trump says he plans to nominate Blanche to become attorney general permanently. When you hear that Bondi testified that Blanche was responsible for how the Epstein files were released and all the controversy surrounding that, how much do you think that's going to factor into Blanche's confirmation hearing and whether or not some Republicans decide to vote nay.

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ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it has to be a big problem for Todd, Blanche, Jake, because there's nothing good in this whole mess of the Epstein files, legally or politically. And if you look at today's transcript, Pam Bondi truly does Todd Blanche no favors. And I don't think she's trying to hurt him. As Paula says, Pam Bondi goes out of her way several times to praise Todd Blanche's skill and ethics and his handling of this whole process. But the bottom line is it's disastrous, right?

Todd Blanche was in charge. Pam Bondi makes that clear of the process that resulted in the release of victims' names, of the process that resulted in the improper redaction of the names of wrongdoers, of a process that was chaotic and overdue and satisfied nobody. And there's no way for Blanche to get out of that. It's actually surprising when you read the transcript how little Bondi knew about what was going on. This seems like it was a complete delegation.

And you can bet this will come up in a big way when Todd Blanche goes in front of the Senate for his confirmation hearings.

TAPPER: And MJ, this comes as new details about Epstein's inner circle are prompting House Republicans to push the Justice Department to act. House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer and other Republican lawmakers are calling for a Justice Department investigation into allegations involving two men accused of sexually abusing Epstein's longtime assistant, Sarah Kellen, who testified a few weeks ago. Given that, and now this Bondi transcript news, how tough a spot is Blanche in to take some actual action when it comes to the perpetrators of this horrific violence against these women?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there have been these parallel tracks in the Epstein investigation. While the DOJ has been releasing these millions of files, the House Oversight Committee has been bringing in people who were in Epstein's orbit to try to figure out what information can we get about his crimes. And Sarah Kellen was a really important one last week because she worked for Jeffrey Epstein for so many years. Though she was adamant that she started out as a victim, regardless of the role that she may have played in helping to get girls and women into Epstein's world. And just today, the House Oversight Committee not only released the transcript of their interview with Kellen, they also said that the DOJ now needs to investigate these two men.

The first person is Frederic Fekkai, who is a celebrity hairstylist. And the second person is Philip Levine, the former mayor of Miami Beach. Kellen had said that both men in separate incidents had sexually assaulted her years ago. Both have denied these allegations of assault. But I think all of this is such a good reminder as we are talking about Todd Blanche and the future of for him potentially at the DOJ, that if he is confirmed, not only is he going to get a lot of the criticism, continue to get the criticism for how the DOJ handled the release of the files, but he's also going to come under tremendous pressure to investigate people that were never investigated in the past by the Justice Department and the federal government for their roles in the Epstein saga.

TAPPER: And this --

REID: MJ --

TAPPER: Go ahead.

REID: -- make such an important point because one of the most important things for Todd Blanche before he gets for this confirmation hearing is you have to get your story straight on which victims the DOJ has met with and did you meet with the victims or the lawyers? Every time they answer this question, I leave confused as to who they met with.

TAPPER: Well, I think that's intentional.

REID: Well, I asked the attorney -- acting attorney general when I sat down to him a week ago and I'm still, I think they're saying they met with the lawyers. You have to be crystal clear and you have to show empathy because there was that disastrous moment at Bondi's last appearance before Congress where she appeared incredibly insensitive towards the victims. And we know that Blanche will say that there is currently no one under criminal investigation and they need more information. But with things like, you know, what MJ was just reporting coming forward, he's going to have to have really clear and convincing answers for this confirmation hearing, otherwise this could metastasize.

TAPPER: And Elie, this news comes as Blanche is already facing a great deal of criticism over Trump's so called Anti-Weaponization Fund and whether he's serious about scrapping it for good or parsing. He said we are not going forward with that. But anybody who speaks Washingtonese knows we are not just means I -- we are currently not the second doing it. But that doesn't mean that they won't go through with it in the future as Trump suggested they will.

HONIG: Right. And Todd Blanche made clear that they are going to proceed with this immunity deal that's been given to Donald Trump by the IRS for all of his tax returns up to now, which is not playing well either. But I think that these two incidents in particular the Epstein files release and the anti-weaponization slush fund release raised serious questions about Todd Blanche's judgment, legal and political. The Anti-Weaponization Fund was so poorly received that it caused a revolt among Senate Republicans against Todd Blanche. And so he has now backed off.

And I don't know if that was in anticipation of what he thought might be a nomination, but he's the one who put his name on it. He's the one who tried to stand by this. And now he's going to have to either defend it or disown it when he goes in front of the Senate. I don't know which one's going to play better or worse.

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TAPPER: All right. Thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.

Later, I'm going to speak with the House Oversight Committee member who was in the room when former Attorney General Pam Bondi testified.

Paula Reid, MJ Lee, thanks both.

Elie, stay with me for one second because we're also going to discuss this new plea deal today for John Bolton, President Trump's former national security adviser.

That reporting today, first on CNN, this just in, lawyers for the Kennedy Center just ordered staff to remove President Trump's name from the building by June 12th. That's next Friday. It complies with a recent court order. Stay with.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back with more in our Law and Justice Lead. John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor turned adversary, has reached a plea deal over mishandling sensitive national security information. That's according to three sources. Prosecutors have accused Bolton of sharing diary entries from the first Trump White House with two unauthorized individuals.

[17:15:00]

CNN has reported those two individuals are his wife and his daughter. One source says that Bolton intends to plead guilty to one felony count and agreed to pay more than $2 million fine. Now agreeing to that fine could actually allow him to avoid any prison time.

Elie Honig is back with us. We're also joined by CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel.

Elie, what's your take on this outcome? Is Bolton getting a fair deal?

HONIG: I think this is a perfectly fair and reasonable deal both ways, Jake. It's really all about risk mitigation. So any defendant who goes to trial in the federal system is likely to be convicted statistically. And if you look at the case against John Bolton, the evidence look fairly strong and straightforward. If he had gone to trial and been convicted, John Bolton likely would have been sentenced to several years in prison.

By taking this plea, he admits his guilt. He takes a felony conviction. In all likelihood, if you look at the way they've structured this deal, he will probably avoid a prison sentence. He will go on probation, as you said, he'll pay that $2 million fine. He cuts his losses.

From DOJ's point of view, by the way, they also cut their risk. You never know what's going to happen at trial. You lock in an important conviction here against a powerful person who committed a serious crime. And I think it's reasonable for DOJ to conclude there's no need to send a 77-year-old with no prior record who did not put these secrets out to the public, did not give them to an adversary. What he did was bad, but it wasn't the worst.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for prosecutors to say take your plea, take your conviction and we'll move on.

TAPPER: And Jamie, from the very beginning, we've been cautioned by legal experts that this case against Bolton was different than the ones in which it looked like Trump was just going -- or having people or people were just taking it upon themselves to go after his political foes like Letitia James or James Comey.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I think that's fair to say. On the other hand, as we like to say, two things can be true --

TAPPER: Right.

GANGEL: -- at the same time. So, yes, were these serious charges? Absolutely. We wouldn't have a plea deal today if they weren't. That said, you cannot ignore the politics or the fact that John Bolton was became a fierce critic of Donald Trump and Donald Trump wanted him prosecuted.

He said it publicly. He also called Bolton, quote, a lowlife dummy and war mongering fool. So, yes, these are serious charges, but it underscores again that Donald Trump will use his DOJ to settle scores.

TAPPER: And Elie, Bolton agreeing to a multimillion dollar fine means he could skirt prison time. That's a win not always seen in cases over illegally retaining classified information. Do you think President Trump will be satisfied with that?

HONIG: Oh, gosh, I'm sure President Trump has more of a lust for vengeance than that. But, you know, it's interesting, Jake, as a prosecutor, actually never supposed to accept a financial penalty in lieu of the actual sentence. So I'll be interested to hear how they justify where they came up with this number $2 million. How is the loss $2 million, where does it come from? But I think even if you take that out of it, as I said before, I still think it's a reasonable deal to say you plead, you accept what you did.

I think there's an important lesson here in what John Bolton did wrong and his acceptance of it. And in exchange for that, you'll likely get probation. I don't have a problem with that.

TAPPER: And, Jamie, while we have you, your take on Pam Bondi's testimony to the House Oversight Committee in which he suggested that Todd Blanche was the one that handled or mishandled the Epstein files, what do your sources tell you about whether or how this could affect Blanche as he seeks confirmation from the Senate?

GANGEL: I think it's a problem for him. There's no question about it. And we're seeing senators like Thom Tillis, Cornyn, you know, they, they are upset about it.

The one thing I would warn, though, is in November, many of these Republican senators, those three, Thom Tillis, Cassidy, Cornyn, they won't be part of that Republican conference in the next Congress. So Blanche can wait this out. He can and Trump can wait it out. And he can try to get them confirmed in the next Congress.

TAPPER: All right, Jamie and Elie, thanks so much.

The World Cup kicking off in exactly one week, pun intended. Ahead, the safety crackdown on the transit line for a major host city. And breaking news in our Money Lead, a new record close for the Dow soaring 875 points before the closing bell. The S&P also finishing ahead today. The NASDAQ was down slightly. A lot going on. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our National Lead, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is calling for an investigation into the security of Atlanta's public transportation system, MARTA, after a string of violent incidents, including two stabbings within six days.

Duffy posted on X, quote, "This is Margaret Swan, a great grandmother stabbed to death 20 times in a random attack in the middle of the day on Atlanta's public transit. I want answers from Atlanta. The number of assaults, robberies and rapes on MARTA's trains is more than three times the national average," unquote.

Moreover, in less than two weeks, Atlanta is going to host World Cup matches. So the city had been encouraging people to avoid traffic by taking MARTA even more. CNN's Ryan Young takes a look now at how Atlanta and other World Cup cities are preparing amid safety concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MARKWAYNE MULLIN, DHS SECRETARY: Through 11 different cities. We're going to have 78 Super Bowls in 38 days.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the U.S. and Canada and Mexico, this year FIFA World cup on tap to be the largest tournament in history.

[17:25:02]

With stadiums averaging nearly 70,000 seats, organizers expect the event to draw 5 million fans. That will also mean intense security. Some recent unprovoked attacks give people reason to worry.

In Los Angeles, where the U.S. tournament kicks off, police say someone stabbed and beat a 70 year old woman back in March, leaving her with a broken neck. Not far away in Long Beach, California last month, police say another woman was stabbed and left hospitalized. And last week in Atlanta, police say a woman was fatally stabbed on a train operated by MARTA, the city's public transportation line. In months past, the Transportation Department called for improved safety measures in cities to include Chicago, DC, New York, LA, Charlotte and Philadelphia. Now Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy wants an investigation in Atlanta, saying "Every American should be disturbed by the horrific crimes we have seen on MARTA in the last month."

YOUNG: There's a big focus on safety and whether or not MARTA can meet the need when it comes to all the international guests that will be coming to town. And some things have really frightened people in the city, especially a deadly stabbing that happened just last week having people asking questions. Is MARTA safe enough and ready for the World Cup?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there should be extra security for sure on a day to day basis, especially with the World Cup coming up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Traveling alone would not be an option right now for me on MARTA.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Safety is an issue for sure --

YOUNG: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- based on what happened last week. So definitely hesitant, but still doing it. It'd be great to see a little bit more security on the trains.

YOUNG (voice-over): MARTA continues to tell its riders this system is safe.

SCOTT GRAHAM, MARTA POLICE CHIEF: This was a senseless crime and violence would not be tolerated on MARTA.

YOUNG (voice-over): Atlanta police recently ran a mass casualty training exercise showing the public just how prepared they are. And from the feds --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: FBI Atlanta will lead drone ground intercept teams around stadiums and fan fest locations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fans are going to come in and enjoy this World cup experience and not have an idea of all the security measures that are going on.

CHIEF JIM MCDONNELL, LOS ANGELES POLICE: Let me be clear. Anyone who seeks to turn the celebration into chaos, who threatens the safety of our residents or visitors or who comes here intending to commit crimes, you will find no refuge in this city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: Yes, Jake, we know MARTA is key. It's right here behind me. The traffic in the city can be bad on a normal day. But add all these extra fans will be trying to get here to the Atlanta FIFA World Cup, this is going to be key to getting them there. But let's not forget this is not like the Super Bowl one weekend.

This is going to be the Super Bowl every single day almost for a month with all these international visitors. It'll put the system to a test. It'll put the city to a test. Everyone will be dealing with this for quite some time. Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Ryan Young in Atlanta for us. Thank you so much.

We're back with a CNN special report tracking the source of the latest Ebola outbreak. Doctors revealing the first signs of trouble well before a health emergency was ever declared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: In our Health Lead, the World Health Organization is investigating the timeline of this Ebola outbreak. Local leaders in the Democratic Republic of Congo tell CNN that the first case may have occurred on February 22nd. That's nearly three months before the World Health Organization was alerted.

CNN's Clarissa Ward reports now from a once popular gold mining town in eastern Congo, now deemed the epicenter of the country's latest outbreak.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN Chief International Correspondent (voice-over): We are heading to Mongbwalu, a remote gold mining town deep in the lush forests of eastern Congo and the epicenter of this Ebola crisis.

WARD: From up here, you really get a sense of the challenges in fighting this outbreak, the vastness of the terrain and the total lack of good roads.

WARD (voice-over): The World Food Programme now operates a daily helicopter to deliver supplies to the beleaguered community. On this day, they're bringing a much needed mobile testing lab. Days without results here have cost lives.

WARD: You can see they've sent security for us. That's because yesterday villagers were throwing rocks at a convoy of aid workers.

WARD (voice-over): We drive quickly through the town. Suspicion of aid organizations runs deep here, with conspiracy theories swirling as the death toll mounts. Jump out of the car to talk to local journalist Glar Mombesa.

WARD: So he's saying that there's a feeling among the community as well, that, that aid workers who are coming here are actually coming here to profit from this crisis, not to help.

WARD (voice-over): He spends his days trying to educate the community about the outbreak.

WARD: So he's saying that the reason he's frightened of this hospital is because everybody who goes in there sick, they don't leave. They come out dead.

WARD (voice-over): Inside the hospital, a small team is holding the line. Logistics coordinator Naoufel Dridi is preparing to disinfect another body.

NAOUFEL DRIDI, LOGISTICS COORDINATOR, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: It's like you're on the front lines. Where the bullets are flying. You can't see it.

WARD (voice-over): That invisible enemy is everywhere here. Workers carry the first body to the morgue, a grim procession disinfecting the path as they go.

[17:35:06]

A second follows closely behind. A woman can be heard wailing from inside. My child, my child. She cries. I remember my child.

WARD: So he's explaining to me that the two bodies that we just saw being brought in, one of them was an 11-year-old child and the other one was an 8 month old baby. And you can hear, we've been hearing the, the wails of the family. It's just -- it's unimaginable.

WARD (voice-over): The bodies keep coming. Six in total this day. Each one a family destroyed.

The mayor of Mongbwalu is overwhelmed. His town has never seen anything like this.

WARD: Can we talk about when this all started? When did you first understand that there was something terribly wrong going on here?

ISRAEL SESERKL MANDRO, MONGBWALU MAYOR: The date was February 22nd when a body arrived from Bunla in a coffin.

WARD: The 22nd of February.

WARD (voice-over): That's more than 11 weeks before the outbreak was declared.

MANDRO: Two or three weeks later people started to die here. The deaths in two weeks, there were 48 dead, here in Mongbwalu.

WARD (voice-over): The virus continued to spread silently, invisibly through this town and beyond. Health care workers are now playing catch up to contain the outbreak and the people of Mongbwalu are still paying the price.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD: Now, Jake, in terms of how the virus was able to continue to spread for so many weeks before the outbreak was actually declared, the mayor told us that there's a lot of tuberculosis and malaria in that region. Some of the symptoms of those conditions are similar to those of Ebola. But crucially he said that when they did Ebola tests, those tests were old tests for the Zaire strain. And of course this is a different strain, which meant those tests came back negative Truly, Jake, it was a perfect storm.

TAPPER: Clarissa Ward in the Democratic Republic of Congo, thank you so much. Joining us to discuss this Ebola outbreak is the former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC, Robert Redfield.

Doctor, leaders in the Congo believe this outbreak may have begun months before the World Health Organization was alerted. What does that suggest to you about the scale of the outbreak and how bad it might get?

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, FORMER DIRECTOR, CDC: Yes, Jake, I'm concerned about this outbreak because already within, you know, less than several weeks of its first recognition by WHO. We had numbers that would put it as the third largest Ebola outbreak in the history of the world.

This was largely driven by a technical challenge, as was pointed out in your read up to this is that the test that we developed for Ebola pick up the Zaire and strain and the Sudan strain, but they didn't pick up the Bundibugyo strain, which is the strain that unfortunately is causing this current outbreak. And that strain's been relatively unusual in the African outbreaks. We've had 17 Ebola outbreaks in the DRC. So we've since 1976, and only two of them had the Bundibugyo strain, which was in 2007 and 2012.

So when the doctors saw these cases, they would test them and they would come back negative to the Zaire strain. And therefore, they didn't feel they had Ebola. Although when you see this degree of mortality, you really need to think Ebola.

Now, this region, the interior region where this Ebola outbreak's occurring, really hadn't had an Ebola outbreak before. So the people were not that experienced as to say, other parts of Nigeria -- of the DRC, where, as I mentioned, this is the 17th outbreak.

TAPPER: So a few weeks ago, I spoke with a former USAID worker who worked on the ground in the Congo.

[17:40:02]

And this person told me that these cuts to USAID by President Trump and Elon Musk without question had an impact on the ability to detect this outbreak. This official said specifically about the testing that they would have. The USAID would have been pushing for more testing beyond just testing for the Zaire strain, as you noted, and also just how quickly the test materials were able to get to the various labs, that USAID would have been moving money, more personnel to reach these remote areas and that they would have acted quicker.

Now the State Department rejects this. The current acting CDC director rejects this. What do you think? Do you agree with the USAID official that we spoke with that gutting USAID had absolutely an impact on the effect of the response to this outbreak?

REDFIELD: You know, Jake, I don't think so. And from where I'm coming from, I think really it was more that I pointed out the technical issue. When I was the CDC director, I had three Ebola outbreaks in the DRC during my a little over three year time as CDC director, including what was the second largest in the history of the world. And the key to this was developing and deploying these diagnostic tests which we were able to do pretty quickly for the Zairian strain.

The problem is, and we developed a new center of excellence in the DRC for Ebola in Kinshasa which is pretty functional. I maintained a team of over 25 people in the DRC from CDC to help with Ebola continuing and there during the time that this outbreak occurred.

I really do think it was a technical problem. The other challenge that you probably know from your people on the ground is that this is an area that's been in conflict for now well over 30 years.

TAPPER: Right.

REDFIELD: When I was there, it was 25 years. And it's not just a conflict between two groups. It's a conflict between like 25 different groups. So the amount of human population displacement unrest is enormous. So I really think it's a technical issue. I don't think it was the resourcing issue. But I know other people may have a different opinion.

TAPPER: CNN on a separate matter, CNN is learning that HHS Secretary RFK Jr. is seeking access to the medical records of most Americans. He wants to use the records to research a possible link between vaccines and autism. Something of course that the medical community has studied for decades and found no evidence of at all.

What's your take on this effort and is that even legal?

REDFIELD: You know, Jake, I'm not familiar with it that I, you know, I'm just not familiar with it. I would find, you know, trying to look at how we can use access to electronic medical records to evaluate different health outcomes, I think is obviously a reasonable thing to consider. But as you know and I know that has to be done with the proper

protocols, the proper human use, the proper consent. So I would find it unlikely that someone was going to be able to bypass all that.

TAPPER: Former CDC director Robert Redfield. Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time and expertise as always. The chairman of the FCC, Brendan Carr, is coming up next. We're going to ask him about the state of network television, efforts to limit screen time for your kids, and much more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:47:42]

TAPPER: Some breaking news in the Law and Justice Lead about a story we've told you about before. In a stunning move, a judge in Arkansas just dropped the charges against that candidate running for sheriff who killed a man who was accused of sexually assaulting his young daughter.

Aaron Spencer's trial was set for this month, but in dismissing the case, a judge cited missing evidence and misconduct by law enforcement, calling it egregious. Spencer, as you may remember, admitted to gunning down a man found with his 13-year-old daughter. Spencer won his Republican primary back in February. He said he wants to fix the system that failed to protect his daughter.

In our Tech Lead, the Federal Communications Commission is working to combat excessive screen time use in children, launching a review of its E-rate program which spends close to $2.5 billion a year on discounts for Internet equipment and services to eligible schools nationwide. Here to discuss all this and a little bit more is FCC Chairman Brendan Carr. Thanks so much for being here.

Chairman Carr, the program you're reviewing, it's intended to be used by rural and urban schools, districts, libraries. How do you intend to make sure the review process doesn't cut funding from areas where school age children are less likely to have Internet access at home?

BRANDON CARR, CHAIRMAN, FCC: What we've seen over the last couple of years is a real surge in screen time for kids. A lot of parents saw that in particular during COVID. Now the research is starting to come in to show that may be correlating with poor educational outcomes. We've got literacy rates dropping. We got math scores going down, is we want to take a refresh look at this program. At the FCC, we subsidize almost $3 billion every year to Internet connectivity.

What we're focused on is make sure that parents feel like they're empowered that there's the right type of Internet filters and safety protocol. So we're doing a top to bottom review of that program in light of all this evidence that's coming in.

TAPPER: All right. Other topics, let's talk about Disney and ABC, which filed its renewal applications for eight broadcast stations last week early because the FCC review wanted to go over the company's diversity, equity and inclusion, or DEI policies. Now Disney claims that this review is a First Amendment issue and they

say it's an effort by you and the SEC to suppress content that the Trump administration doesn't like, such as Jimmy Kimmel Live and The View.

[17:50:02]

I guess philosophically, here's my question. What is the difference between a viewpoint and bias? Because the FCC is supposed to encourage viewpoints, all sorts of viewpoints. How do you distinguish between somebody's viewpoint and somebody's bias? It seems like it could be the same thing.

CARR: Well, with respect to Disney and ABC in particular, we started an investigation all the way the beginning of last year into concerns that have been raised about DEI discrimination within Disney. There was evidence that was being raised that felt into a couple of different buckets.

One, allegations about Disney hiring, promoting and compensating people in using workplace opportunities based on race, gender and other protected characteristics. Now, Disney, through this process has its own position and will have every opportunity to put its evidence in.

But what the FCC has been investigating on is those concerns about discrimination. So, we have called Disney's licenses in for early renewal. They can continue to make their case and people have the opportunity to challenge their licenses at the FCC through this process.

TAPPER: What does this have to do with your purview? I mean, this is -- it seems to me from how you describe it, this is an EEOC issue, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. It doesn't really have to do with what you do.

CARR: Well, the very first section of the Communications Act talks specifically about empowering the FCC to ensure there isn't discrimination along race, gender and other protected characteristics. And at the FCC we have our own EEO regulations that apply to broadcasters and to some extent cable as well.

We've gone through multiple rounds of discovery with Disney and towards the end there, there was a production that Disney made that our staff believed was disingenuous, that was incomplete. And so we have sent them a notice of deficiency. And so one other steps we can take in our enforcement matter is to call the license in early. So that's what we did. It was based on our DEI investigation.

Look, a lot of companies, particularly during COVID went all in on this form of DEI discrimination. And we'll see based on the facts and law, whether Disney was one of them or not. But if they were in fact discriminate based on race and gender, that could be a real problem when it comes to holding an FCC broadcast license.

TAPPER: So Disney also says that the FCC directly pressured other ABC stations, ones not owned or operated by Disney, located in Texas. They say that the FCC did this to try to get them to file notices of equal time requests. Is that true?

CARR: So this relates to a separate issue which is The View had on a legally qualified candidate for office. And the FCC has rules on the books called equal time. So if you're a broadcaster, it doesn't apply to cable. But if you're a broadcaster, you put one legally qualified candidate for office on. You have to offer an opportunity to all others.

Now, what Disney is claiming is that The View qualifies for what's called a bona fide news interview program, which would exclude them from the equal time rule. And we have asked Disney as well as other TV stations in Texas whether they believe that The View is bona fide news. And a lot of stations filed and apparently didn't agree with Disney that The View is bona fide news.

TAPPER: Let's turn to CBS, because CBS News obviously fired longtime "60 Minutes" correspondent Scott Pelley earlier this week after a clash with management in a staff meeting. Pelley said in his statement, quote, new management has instructed me to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story. I've been told to include assertions that are unverified.

Cecilia Vega, another "60 Minutes" correspondent who was also let go, said a similar thing. Now, a CBS spokesperson denies that that's true, denies that there's any political interference at the company from ownership or Editor-in-Chief Bari Weiss. They say it's just the normal back and forth.

But I have to ask. When the FCC approved the Paramount Skydance merger last year, it was on the condition of appointing an ombudsman to evaluate bias and other complaints. Is the ombudsman at CBS taking a look at what Pelley and Vega have alleged? Is the FCC going to investigate it?

CARR: Well, I don't know about that. We've not been in touch with the CBS bias and buds. I think this is one, though, where thankfully people can judge it with their own eyes. There was transcripts of these communications between the employees and CBS. I think a lot of people, including across the political spectrum, think that the reporting on how Scott Pelley behaved was just simply unprofessional. It's not the type of stuff you'd get away with as an employee at Taco Bell, let alone at an institution like CBS.

I don't think there's a lot of people that have concerns that this was about bias. I think was about unprofessional behavior.

TAPPER: But isn't what he is alleging and what Cecilia Vega is alleging? Isn't that exactly what this ombudsman and exactly what the FCC should be investigating?

CARR: I don't think so. I think the concerns that were raised by him were, again, based on a transcript of a meeting that he was in the company. And a lot of people, again, nonpartisan across the political spectrum, didn't think it was professional conduct. TAPPER: So speaking of transcripts, there was this investigation into "60 Minutes" about the transcript of the Kamala Harris interview in 2024 and whether it was edited in a way that was unfair.

[17:55:04]

When all that came out, even the Wall Street Journal said that. There didn't seem to be anything untoward that. Norah O'Donnell did an interview for "60 Minutes" with President Trump. I think it was like a 40-minute interview that they edited down to 13 minute -- 13 minutes. Is the FCC going to investigate that?

CARR: Well, one of the things that happened with the original Kamala Harris one is there was no disclosure of the transcript itself. That's very different than now. I think "60 Minutes" now has a policy, including with that interview, of making the entire transcript readily available.

But if you step back as a general matter, what we're doing at the FCC is we're looking in the American people have fundamentally lost trust in the legacy media, including broadcasters. And broadcasters are different than cable, different than podcasts because they have a license. They're supposed to operate in the public interest.

So the through line when you look at all of these actions that the FCC is taking is we are holding broadcasters perhaps newly so, but accountable to that public interest standard.

TAPPER: All right, that's all the time we have, unfortunately. But you please come back. OK? FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, appreciate it.

The big story tonight, a brand new transcript out revealing exactly what former Attorney General Pam Bondi told Congress about the release of the Epstein files. A lawmaker who heard that testimony firsthand is going to join us next with his reaction. Stay with us.

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