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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Law Enforcement Faces Shifting Plans, Complex Security for July 4th; FBI Assigns 260 Staff Members to Georgia 2020 Election Probe; All Eyes on MSG Ahead of Expected Swift-Kelce Wedding Weekend. AOC Endorses Abdul El-Sayed In Michigan Senate Primary; Why It Matters For Children To Comfortable With Discomfort. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 02, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper.

And this hour, final preparations are underway for massive celebrations in D.C this weekend. And on top of heightened security and Secret Service plans, the nation's capital is also set for the hottest July 4th on record. We're going to go live to the National Mall for an update in just moments.

Plus, the FBI is ramping up its investigation into the 2020 election in Georgia, as President Trump continues to push his baseless claims that the race was stolen from him. What we're learning about the 260 additional officials who are now assigned to this investigation.

And a pediatrician and mother of two says she faced online backlash after sharing what she calls, quote/unquote, unhinged advice for parents. So, would you listen to her recommendations? Judge for yourself when she joins us just ahead.

Plus, sources say Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's rehearsal dinner should be starting right now at Madison Square Garden ahead of what are expected to be their wedding festivities in that famous venue tomorrow. We are live right outside the arena.

The Lead tonight, the finishing touches for America's 250th are underway. Expect flyovers, a long Trump speech, a massive fireworks show, and complex behind-the-scenes choreography between security agencies to keep the massive crowds and the president safe. And as the temperatures spike, Democrats are bringing their own kind of heat with a new scathing report accusing the Trump administration of hijacking the celebration in, quote, service of the president's ego. We're going to dive into that report in just a minute.

But, first, CNN's Brian Todd is on the National Mall. So, this is quite an operation here to pull this off, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Pamela. And CNN sources in law enforcement and at the White House tell CNN that there is a bit of anxiety building regarding security for this event, simply because the timing for some events within the celebration of the 250th anniversary has been shifting around, timing for things like flyovers, timing for President Trump's speech on the 4th of July, the fireworks display starting. Some of the timing for those things has been shifting around and is still in flux, and that has created headaches for the officials who are managing President Trump's security and managing the security of the broader public here for the mall area on the 4th of July.

But the good news is that they have the infrastructure already in place. This is a multi-agency, multi-disciplinary security operation, as it always is for these big events. You've got these D.C. police vehicles here along Madison Street on the mall. That's the main mall area there, where the Great American State Fair is. This is going to be one of the checkpoints where people are going to have to go through security to get in on Saturday. You see National Guardsmen there beyond those metropolitan police. And here's another part of the infrastructure over here that I can point to, here on 7th Street. You see the police vehicles there, but also the dump trucks.

Multiple street closures are expected, of course, on the 4th of July, so people coming down here have to be prepared for that. They're being advised to take the Metro down here, rather than deal with traffic and road closures at areas like this.

Now, FBI Director Kash Patel has said that there is no credible threat to security here on the mall on the 4th of July, or in other cities. But CNN today, and other reporters tracked down the U.S. attorney for D.C., Jeanine Pierro, and she was asked also if she is tracking any possible threats for the 4th of July. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: I hope -- I'm not tracking anything in terms of a threat environment. We're all hoping that Americans are able to celebrate, whether they're in D.C. or around the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: But we're also being told by law enforcement sources that federal officials, federal security officials and security forces have also been stretched a little thin because of the World Cup. There have been assets that have been deployed to the World Cup, like counter- drone systems, other officers, security officers. You've got counter bomb technicians and other things like that being shifted over for the World Cup.

That has taken some resources away from other things. In fact, there was an incident recently where there was a bomb threat with a suspicious package at an ICE facility, and a bomb technician team could not be deployed to that. It turned out that that was not a credible threat, that was not really a security risk at all.

But that's one of the things that's leading to the anxiety here, Pamela, is that some security assets have been devoted to the World Cup event. So, some security here has been stretched a little thin, but they are confident that they'll have plenty of security here for the 4th of July.

BROWN: Let's hope everyone stays safe.

[18:05:00]

Brian Todd on the National Mall, thank you so much.

And if you're not paying super close attention, you might not know there's a difference between the America 250 event and Freedom 250 event. America 250 is a bipartisan Congressional commission, while Freedom 250 is mostly run by top Trump aides. And now House Democrats have a new report alleging people who intended to donate to America 250 were given incorrect wire instructions and unwittingly donated to Trump's fund instead.

Joining us now to further discuss is Scott MacFarlane. Hi, Scott, great to see you.

SCOTT MACFARLANE, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, MEIDASTOUCH NETWORK: Likewise.

BROWN: So, let's talk about this. The report also says that America 250 has only received a quarter of the $100 million allocated to them by Congress last year, adding the fund has, quote, struggled to execute planned programming and financial uncertainty and misalignment with Freedom 250.

You have been combing through this report. What stood out to you?

MACFARLANE: What's alleged here by Democrats on the House Natural Resources Committee, Pamela, is that there was a hostile takeover by Freedom 250 of the congressionally approved America 250. That was approved ten years ago, bipartisan basis was going to run the show this week.

Freedom 250 is Trump-aligned, if not Trump-sycophantic. And what they're alleging is that Freedom 250 was trying to urge or nudge America 250 to shift the programming toward Trump. Didn't happen, so they took it over, including, according to the committee, took some of the money that was to go to America 250.

Further alleged in this investigation is that there was some form of a misleading of donors who thought they were donating to the original group, America 250, but were misled to instead donate to Freedom 250. What the committee alleges is that there was a fraud perpetrated by Freedom 250, the group behind so many events, including that great American State Fair.

I want to underscore we've reached out to the White House and Freedom 250. The White House has not commented. Freedom 250 has not responded.

BROWN: And is this why some of the artists pulled out because of the Freedom 250 and the politics around it? Tell us more about that.

MACFARLANE: That's another component of this investigation by the committee. They say that the artists were hoodwinked, that they were made to believe they were performing for this nonpartisan patriotic event, the one that was concocted ten years ago by America 250, the one that was to be this week's show. But instead they've realized this was a Trump-aligned group, Freedom 250.

So, those artists, the names are now familiar to us, Milli Vanilli, Sing and See Music Factory, Young M.C., bolted on the thing, dunked on the thing, and is now left with whatever is existing on the National Mall that Brian was showing you.

BROWN: And you have to wonder what the turnout's going to be tomorrow, right, because you have the hottest day on record for -- not should be tomorrow, Saturday, I should say for the 4th of July, right? What have you heard about organizers, about keeping everyone safe, about the crowds or lack thereof? We know President Trump cares about crowd sizes.

MACFARLANE: There are grave concerns about health and safety on Saturday. It would not shock people if somehow this thing gets re- imagined, re-orchestrated, or just canceled, because the temperature's going to be above 100 degrees in the swamp of D.C. You know, that feels like 110 degrees.

The security screenings begin at 1:00 P.M. Saturday. The president doesn't speak until after 9:00 PM. That is eight hours baking in the sun for people. Medical emergencies are possible. Local officials have declared heat emergencies. They're trying to send a message here. This is dangerous, and there are restrictions on bags, on bottles, on water. Some of this can get particularly dangerous. It may somehow get adjusted.

BROWN: We shall see. Thank you so much, Scott, nice to see you. I appreciate it.

And joining us now to further discuss is Democrat from Pennsylvania, Congressman Brendan Boyle. Hi, Congressman.

So, a spokesperson for Freedom 250, Danielle Alvarez, says the claims are, quote, categorically false, and criticized the bipartisan America 250, saying the commission had nothing to show for the years and money spent on the nation's birthday. I wonder what your reaction is to that?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): You know, I react to that with just great sadness. You know, I, I think of past previous national celebrations, I remember as a kid the bicentennial of the Constitution in the 1980s. I remember President Reagan rededicating the Statue of Liberty on the 4th of July in 1986. Every previous president knew to make an occasion like this about the nation and not about any individual politician.

Unfortunately, we all know we don't have that kind of a person in the White House. We have someone there instead who wants to make everything political and everything about himself rather than making it what it should be, about the United States of America.

BROWN: Fellow Democrat and ranking member on the Natural Resources Committee, Congressman Jared Huffman, says he hopes to more aggressively investigate Freedom 250 if Democrats retake the House. Do you support that, or is this just all becoming part of this tit-for- tat trend with these Congressional investigations on the other party?

[18:10:00]

BOYLE: Well, I certainly think that the necessary Congressional function of oversight will begin to happen if and when Democrats win back the House this November. Really, Congress for the last 18 months has been MIA when it comes to its oversight function.

But I also want to highlight, you know, I'm here in Philadelphia in my district, literally the nation's birthplace. Today, we did have a great bipartisan event, a gathering of members of Congress, both at Independence Hall as well as Congress Hall. So, even despite the president and his team's antics, there are those of us who are really attempting to capture the true spirit of the semiquincentennial.

BROWN: Yes, tell us more about that, the significance of that event you mentioned, and why you wanted to host it.

BOYLE: Yes. I began -- actually, I launched this effort right where I'm standing exactly two years ago to bring members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, back to the room where it all began at Independence Hall exactly 250 years ago on July 2nd, 1776, which was the vote for independence, followed two days later by the vote to adopt the Declaration of Independence on the 4th of July.

I can tell you, I spoke to every one of the members who were here today. They all said what a special moment it was and how happy they were that they came here. It was truly a bipartisan spirit in the room.

BROWN: Well, as you mentioned, 50 years ago, America had celebrated the bicentennial. Gerald Ford was president. The Vietnam War was over. Of course, there was political division in the country, but there was a sense that the vibe was totally different.

John Mark Hansen from the University of Chicago writes, in 1976, celebrating the bicentennial was a moment of pride and unity. We were a nation badly shaken in 1976, but we stood together and celebrated together. Not this year.

What do you make of that? Why do you think things are so different? Does it feel that way to you?

BOYLE: Well, fortunately today, things were bipartisan. And it was an honor and a privilege to play the role of host, hosting my colleagues back at Independence Hall and back at Congress Hall. The unfortunate thing, though, as you've been discussing, is we have a president who refuses to engage in any of the official bipartisan activities, instead literally turning the night of 4th of July into a Trump rally.

It's unfortunate and tragic, but I'm still doing at least my best to attempt to remember the real spirit of what we should be celebrating, and that's what our forebearers did 250 years ago, and all of us in the succeeding generations since have attempted to live up to the ideals of our founding documents.

BROWN: Democrat from Pennsylvania, Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you so much.

BOYLE: Thank you.

BROWN: The FBI is now ramping up its investigation into the 2020 election in Georgia despite no evidence of any widespread fraud. Those details up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

BROWN: In our Law and Justice Lead, hundreds of FBI agents are now descending on Georgia as the agency ramps up its, quote, priority investigation into the 2020 election results there, according to an internal memo.

Now remember, then-attorney general under President Trump, Bill Barr, said there was no widespread evidence of voter fraud despite Trump's repeated claims.

So, let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes at the White House. Kristen, I used to cover the FBI, and resources are finite. Now, there are all these agents going to Georgia. Who is leading this probe, and how many agents are involved here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So, Pamela, we have to remember one thing. This was an ongoing investigation, so there are already a number of agents who are working on this in Georgia. We saw back in January Kurt Olsen, who is an election denier of 2020 election, was tapped by the White House to really look into the 2020 election, specifically in Georgia.

He recommended to the Justice Department that they launch a new investigation. That ramped things up there. Now, we're seeing the FBI put even more resources and personnel into this. So, it's unclear how many people were already working on it, but they're talking about adding 260 new intelligence officers to this investigation into the 2020 election in Georgia.

Now, we're told that some of these intelligence officers, who are very skilled in looking, analyzing data, they'll be working from home. But we also saw what happened in January, and we believe these things are linked after the FBI served a warrant to Fulton County in that election facility, they came out of there with documents, with ballots. We believe that is all part of this ongoing investigation.

Now, this is one specific investigation into what happened in 2020 in Georgia, but we've seen over the last several weeks the Justice Department and the Trump administration as a whole ramping up their efforts into any kind of investigation or documents or declassifying of information all around election integrity.

Now, the one thing we haven't been able to nail down is why now, why the urgency now to add these 260 new officials to this? And to be clear, the memo makes it sound as though it is urgent. It is encouraging these field offices to put their people forward, saying this is how many people they need from each of these field offices who are dedicated to this, as the memo says, priority investigation.

So, again, we have seen this kind of movement across the board throughout this Trump administration as they've tried to really bring election integrity to the forefront. Now, we're seeing it in the Department of Justice, the FBI ramping this up, this specific investigation. All of this happening, of course, just before the midterms.

BROWN: It certainly is. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thank you so much.

Well, Team USA is gearing up for its next do-or-die match in the World Cup, but they'll have to play without a key member of the team. We'll explain why up next.

[18:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All right. Turning to our Sports Lead, the United States is advancing to the World Cup round of 16 after defeating Bosnia and Herzegovina. But last night's win comes with a cost. USA's top scorer Folarin Balogun was sent off with a controversial red card for this play right here. Video review showed him stepping on his opponent's ankle. This means Balogun will miss USA's elimination match against Belgium on Monday.

So, joining us now is The Athletic's Paul Tenorio. Paul, how does the U.S. replace Balogun against Belgium?

PAUL TENORIO, SENIOR WRITER, THE ATHLETIC: Yes, it's not going to be an easy task, and that's because Balogun's been the best player on this U.S. team during this World Cup. He has been the lethal finisher, the lethal forward that the U.S has lacked for quite some time.

[18:25:00]

And they have other options, of course. Ricardo Pepi, who plays at PSV in Holland, he's been the one we've seen the most to come onto the field when Balogun's not playing, Haji Wright, who scored in the last World Cup for the United States. But it's really going to have to be an effort from those around that forward position as well, namely Christian Pulisic. Because when Balogun's not on the field scoring goals and creating havoc with his runs and his power and his defensive presence, Christian Pulisic is the guy that the U.S. needs to be its creator, to be the star that they have expected him to be going into this tournament.

BROWN: Talk about pressure. You know, American fans likely remember that Belgium knocked out the U.S. in the round of 16 at the 2014 World Cup. How do you think that memory will play into Monday's game? TENORIO: Well, I don't think too much, honestly, for -- at least for the U.S. team. You know, this is a very young US team. Many of them were watching that game on television as children being inspired by that 2014 team. So, there isn't too much crossover from that side.

Now, from Belgium's side, the golden generation of Belgium is this team now towards the back end of their career. They haven't really lived up to that label, and now they're up against this U.S. golden generation. So, while I think the players are aware of that history, I don't think it'll make much of an impact in terms of how they actually play each other. What is interesting is that these two teams played each other in March in a friendly in Atlanta, and so there's a familiarity that exists from just a few months ago.

And what'll be interesting to see is how much they learned about each other, how differently they play in that game -- in this game than they did in that game, and what adjustments Mauricio Pochettino makes from a game that Belgium was able to take full advantage in the second half and control all the way through.

BROWN: This is a very exciting moment for USA fans. The United States has not reached the World Cup quarterfinals since 2002. Five players on Team USA weren't even born yet. What would it mean for this team to make such a deep run on home soil nonetheless?

TENORIO: Well, I think this team came into the tournament understanding what the World Cup could mean for the sport, that they have a chance to change the way people think about American men's soccer, that the men's national team, that the sport in this country on the men's side has grown, that they are becoming more competitive, that there has been progress made since that 2002 run, and, really, all of the pressure kind of falls onto this round of 16 game, because the U.S. advanced to the round of 16 in 2014 and in 2022 and in 2010.

So, in order to do something different, they need to do what that 2002 team did and win this game to be able to extend the belief that we've seen from the fans during the course of this tournament, both in the stadiums and watching around the country. The longer they play, the more they win, the more they not just inspire the next generation, but inspire belief around the country that U.S. soccer, American soccer deserves everyone's respect.

BROWN: All right. Paul Tenorio, thank you so much.

TENORIO: Thank you.

BROWN: All right. We're going live to Madison Square Garden up next, where Swifties are gathering and crews are unloading ahead of the expected wedding festivities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, what would you see when you come here with your sister later to check it out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my gosh, all of Taylor Swift, all the Swifties out here rooting her on. Come on, she going to be a bride. It's the best.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you want to be here to kind of experience the other --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BROWN: In our Pop Lead, sources say a rehearsal event for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce has kicked off in style right inside Madison Square Garden tonight. A steady stream of SUVs were just spotted at the hotel right nearby the wedding wonderland at the arena, where sources say some of Swift and Kelce's family, friends, and Chiefs teammates are staying.

Still, some of her fans aren't totally convinced that the famously tricky pop star isn't pulling a hoax with the venue choice.

So, let's bring in CNN's Entertainment Correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister and Chief Law Enforcement Analyst John Miller.

Elizabeth, let's start with you. We don't know much. They've really been keeping this under wraps. But we do know this is expected to be a star-studded weekend, so much activity there around Madison Square Garden. What are your sources telling you? Do we really think the wedding festivities are over with this Friday event?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: So, first of all, I appreciate your Swiftie puns, Pam, so I want to give you one as well. I am about two miles north of Cornelia Street at Madison Square Garden, if you got that reference. And let me tell you, it is crazy here at Madison Square Garden. We have the National Guard. We have a large NYPD presence. And I will tell you that I understand that the fans think that this isn't happening, but based on our sources, this really is happening.

We have seen what we believe to be an SUV that Taylor Swift is in, which means that we believe she is in the building right behind me. We have also seen a ton of black SUVs right here. There are streets closed off. They weren't closed off about an hour ago. But over the past hour, there have been barricades that have gone up, and only certain cars can go through.

And we have seen these black SUVs go in. Unfortunately, I can't tell you who's coming out of them because when they get out of the car, the car goes under a tent, and then they walk under a tent into Madison Square Garden. But tonight is what we believe to be the rehearsal event, a smaller number, around 100, and tomorrow is what sources are telling us is a wedding celebration, basically a huge party that is expected to have around 1,000 people, a lot of Hollywood stars, of course, a ton of athletes, and a lot of Hollywood executives. So, it'll be a who's who right there behind me.

BROWN: Wow, all right. So, let's bring in John because we want to understand what the plan is to make sure that these events are both secure for Taylor and Travis' guests and their fans who may be on the street, but also not a massive inconvenience for New Yorkers and tourists on a holiday weekend.

[18:35:09]

What do you know, John?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the NYPD has a detail of hundreds of cops assigned to this. And they are mostly the outer perimeter to make sure that, A, traffic can move, B, that the perimeter is secure, and, C, if large crowds show up that they are able to kind of control them while keeping the streets that they've got closed to facilitate this activity are closed, and that the streets are supposed to be running keep running.

But there's three goals here as far as security. One is, and these are the Taylor Swift organization's design, is privacy so that they can have the event without paparazzi, stalkers, drones flying over, the kinds of things you would face if it was in an outdoor venue, a private home, or another place, also security to make sure that they control that and that it's kind of a sealed container, and, you know, also the ability to make sure that it goes on, it goes off with the people they want to have there, and without the people they don't want to have there. And they have great regard for their fans, but this is a private family event.

BROWN: All right. I want to ask you also, John, about another couple that reached new heights in New York City this week. Oh my God, these puns. The pair that scaled the Empire State Building and got engaged yesterday, they were arrested and then released today under court supervision. What were you learning about how they pulled off this stunt?

MILLER: Well, this was a mission impossible type caper. You know, first they came to visit the Empire State Building observation deck, like so many people have. They bought tickets, they came in. But as it -- they arrived at 9:00. As it started to close around 11:00 P.M., and then they ushered the last guests out at midnight, they had found a hiding place, we believe, in an empty maintenance room.

And then after everybody was gone, they put together their equipment and their plan. At 5:04 A.M., there's a piece of video where you can see her pop out of a hatch, like in the floor, and then they proceed to cut through cables that are attached, blocking a stairwell, metal cables. And then they go up to another door, and they cut padlocks, and that gives them access to the ladders and the stairways that lead up to the sphere.

Of course, while they flew their flag of love and devotion and world peace, they also met with the NYPD on the way down charged with criminal mischief, reckless endangerment, burglary, possession of burglar's tools, and everything else. But those are offenses where they're considered non-violent crimes, so they were released without bail, and we'll hear more from them later at their next court appearance, and probably way more on social media. BROWN: All right. Really quickly, Elizabeth, I want to go back to you, because earlier today, we saw Travis Kelce's mom, Donna. Obviously, she would be there, right? Do we know who else is attending there tonight and tomorrow?

WAGMEISTER: Yes. So, Taylor's group of famous friends is very well- documented. We know who her close friends are. We saw Sabrina Carpenter, who was in the city. We've also seen Suki Waterhouse in New York City.

Now, is it possible that they're just here hanging out in New York? Sure. But most celebrities actually escape the city for July 4th. So, if they're here, and if you see them, I am going to bet that they are here for the wedding.

Also, of course, many of the Chiefs players, we know that George Kittle and his wife, Claire, they did say that they will be here, and the Chiefs players are staying just about 10, 15 blocks up north from here in Times Square. And, again, as I said, there'll be a lot of Hollywood execs, a lot of business execs.

And final point I want to make, today, Travis and Taylor announced that they made a $26 million donation to various charities across the country, many of which are based in New York City, so maybe their way to give back after having such a lavish event that caused a lot of traffic here for New Yorkers.

BROWN: All right. Elizabeth Wagmeister and John Miller, thank you both.

Well, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is now wading into a race that is crucial for Democrats' efforts to retake the Senate in November. Our panel weighs in up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BROWN: Breaking news in our Politics Lead. Just moments ago, in an interview with CNBC, President Trump defended his business dealings after this week's revelations that his total income for 2025 exceeded $2.2 billion, including more than $1 billion in cryptocurrency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I mean, there's nothing illegal, there's nothing wrong with it.

But I feel badly, in a way, for my kids because every time my kids do, if they invest in a stock or if they go and do a build, anything they do, because the presidency is so powerful, so big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's talk about it with the panel. Terry, I want to start with you. What is your reaction to how he responded to this? TERRY SCHILLING, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: Look, I think he's obviously one of the most transparent presidents we've ever had. He's coming forward with all this. He lost money in the first term, if we all go back to that. He lost a significant portion of his net wealth. But what we're seeing here is President Trump is rooting out corruption in D.C. He's getting rid of the grift here. He's cleaning up this town and I think it's a great thing, and I think he's totally able and capable of making money.

BROWN: Well, let me just follow up on that. You said he's the most transparent president. He hasn't released his tax returns willingly. So, I would push back on that notion. I just want to make that point.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I think we're just -- you reported earlier about this fund that's supposedly paying for how he co-opted this America 250, and there's a fund that people are putting money into. We don't know who they are. We don't know if they've already got business in front of the -- you know, around this -- or in front of, you know, various agencies.

BROWN: Talking about Freedom 250.

FINNEY: Freedom 250. I mean, look, he -- it's shocking, and I think what is most telling is that he did this interview knowing that this is a problem.

[18:45:05]

They know that people are astonished, particularly think about some of the people that we were interviewing on the Mall who were here for the events, who were saying they thought, you know, I don't like this. I wish he would just focus on doing his job.

I mean, you know, previous presidents went out of their way to make sure there was not even the appearance of an impropriety. This president, basically, he doesn't care if we think it's an impropriety because his view is -- well, my people still vote for me. And so, you know, and particularly at a time. The last thing I'll say on this is when people cannot afford our -- gas prices are up, our energy costs are up, our health care costs are up, you know, he's more interested in throwing money into these projects that are about himself and aggrandizing himself, while he is literally making money off of the presidency.

TERRY SCHILLING, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: I don't think that's a very fair assertion. I mean, President Trump has a huge domestic policy agenda. The Democrats in the Senate, we can't even get seven Democrats to cross party lines and break the filibuster to do -- to do the Save America Act, which is five points that are 80-20.

FINNEY: Wait, is it voter suppression?

SCHILLING: It's not voter suppression.

FINNEY: Nothing to do.

SCHILLING: With 80 percent of Americans support.

(CROSSTALK)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: What would you say that -- well, he's holding up the housing bill because of that. I mean, what would you say to --

SCHILLING: President Trump had inherited a lot of major problems in the Biden administration. We had --

FINNEY: Biden inherited major problems from him from COVID.

SCHILLING: Yeah. President Trump called COVID.

BROWN: Every president will say they inherited problems and blame all the problems they have on --

SCHILLING: Exactly. But what's different about this president is in 1980, right? Donald or President Reagan had Tip O'Neill. Who's the Tip O'Neill, the Democratic Party that's willing to work and go across party lines?

We don't have that today. We need that more than ever. But we don't have it. We have plenty of Republicans that are willing to cross party lines --

FINNEY: This president came in and started his administration DOGE- ing the federal government. By the way --

SCHILLING: Yes, it needed to happen.

FINNEY: Doing away -- first, doing away with all of the people in the federal agencies who were the watchdogs. So when nobody was watching, that's when you go ahead and you start doing whatever it is you want. And then he said, we're going to get rid of diversity, equity and inclusion. So why would the Democrat leader of the Democrats say, yes, we're going to help you be create a more racist country instead of a more equitable country?

SCHILLING: Actually, so there's -- there's a charitable response to that. And that's that there's a lot of good people in this country that look at DEI and they say this is choosing people on the basis of skin color.

FINNEY: I assure you I never -- I did not get here because of my gender.

SCHILLING: Did I say -- no, I would -- I would never even suggest that. But that's at the heart of DEI. Are we denying that? Are we denying that DEI is about skin color and not about actually merit?

FINNEY: I am denying. I'm saying that it is about both merit. It is about creating opportunity and it is about recognizing merit. It is not about saying --

SCHILLING: That's not what DEI -- what I'm saying is you should open up your eyes and ears to other people who have different opinions on it. You're not open -- you're just branded everyone that opposes DEI as racist.

(CROSSTALK)

FINNEY: Sweetheart, trust me, I know all about that.

SCHILLING: But that's not very reasonable to brand everyone that opposes DEI as racist. You don't think there's other reasons to oppose DEI?

FINNEY: No, but I'm suggesting that the president start -- you're saying --

SCHILLING: There are no problems with DEI?

FINNEY: You're saying how come we didn't have somebody who was willing to work with him? And I'm saying when you come in and you are that hostile to a group of people, why would that -- that doesn't create an atmosphere --

BROWN: I want to jump in. I wanted to let this breathe, because I do think these are real conversations that people have across the aisle, you know? I mean, within their friends, their families, different politics. I think that that's important to capture that.

I also want to capture something else that's going on and -- because it's really interesting, this endorsement today from Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in this hotly contested Michigan Democratic U.S. Senate primary race. Here's candidate Abdul El-Sayed just moments ago on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Most people don't care about the future of the party. They care about their future. I'm a proud Democrat. I love my party. I just want my party to actually focus on the things that real voters actually need in their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Michigan is a key state for Democrats to hold. AOC is betting that El-Sayed not only can win the primary, but also the general election. Is this a smart bet in your view? I mean, you are seeing more progressive socialist candidates, well, winning.

FINNEY: We've had -- none have actually won a statewide primary bet.

BROWN: That's true.

FINNEY: We've seen four running very blue House districts. And we've also seen nine moderate Democrats also win in their primaries. Look, what I -- what I think --

BROWN: You have seen -- you have seen several "socialists", quote/unquote, you know, self-proclaimed socialists beat actual House members, right? FINNEY: Right. But we've seen four in four primaries where they were

actually running against people who have been there a really long time. I mean, when you talk about Colorado and you say, this young woman, you know, Diana DeGette was in office longer, I think part of what we're seeing is, and I think he said this very well, people want fresh ideas. It's part of why you had Trump-Mamdani voters who said, look, we just want to try something different.

People believe that, you know, they're angry about what's going on in Washington, actually fears about corruption in Washington, keeping their prices high as one of the highest issues we're seeing right now on the polling.

[18:50:01]

We're also seeing people are concerned about costs. They're angry, certainly on the Democratic side. They want Democrats actually fighting Trump. They're wanting people to stand up.

So I don't know if Abdul will be able to pull it off in Michigan because it's a very -- it's a diverse state that I'm not sure is going to be open to the message, all of his messages. But I certainly think when you're talking about child care and health care and lowering costs, that's what people are focused on right now.

BROWN: Quick reaction from you because she's been very strategic with her endorsements. Didn't do it in New York. Now she is with us. What do you think?

SCHILLING: Look, I think this is -- this is where the party is heading on the Democratic side of the aisle. I think that the chickens are essentially coming home to roost. You had Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi, the more establishment wing, playing footsie with these more radical DSA types. And now, they're going to be taking over the party.

I don't -- I'm not pessimistic about Abdul possibly winning the seat. People told us that Mamdani had no chance at winning. You just need to call him a communist. But if you're actually addressing the concerns of voters, you have a great shot at getting a win. I just don't think he's --

BROWN: All right. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

My next guest is a pediatrician who is sharing what she calls her unhinged advice for parents. Would you try it? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:19]

BROWN: And our health lead, a pediatrician and mother of two is standing by her so-called unhinged advice for families. After getting a ton of backlash online, the four pieces of advice drawing criticism. One, take a girls trip to wean your baby off the breast. Two, you need a date night more than your baby needs you at every single bedtime. Three, don't make separate meals. Your kids eat what you eat, or they don't eat. And four, let your kids fail.

The pediatrician behind this advice joins us now, Dr. Edith Bracho- Sanchez.

Thank you so much for coming on, Doctor.

So we're going to get to that backlash in just a moment. But first, I want to talk more about your advice. This is mostly about getting children to be comfortable with discomfort and also how to support moms. Explain why that's so important.

DR. EDITH BRACHO-SANCHEZ, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IRVING MEDICAL CENTER: Yeah. Pam, you know, a long time ago, I decided that if I was going to be online, I was going to do it in a way that was truthful to the way that I parent and the way that I practice pediatrics. And that is to say that I take care of children and their moms and their families in that context, right?

It is not just children that we're looking at, right? So, so to me, it was important to outline this advice and to say it's not just the child here that we're taking care of. It's the mom. It's the whole family. And everyone thrives when we look at things in that way.

BROWN: Yeah. And you talk about why it's so important for moms to care for themselves, because that's also a way to care for the child. And as you note in your follow up article, that context is important, too. Not every family is the same when you're giving advice, right?

So how do you tweak your advice to fit the mold of a family, once you know what their households and struggles are like?

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Right. So what I meant by this, and I explained it in the article and I tried to explain it in the caption, but you know, some of the context gets lost on social media is that I would never recommend, for example, a girls trip to wean a baby off the breast to a mom who has very limited support, right? Like that is not reading the room. It is not understanding the context, right?

Just like I would never say, let your child go hungry. Let them wake up in the morning and make up for the lost calories if they chose not to eat the dinner that you served, right? I would never say that to a child who is perhaps on the spectrum, or having other difficulties or other medical conditions. So I think it is important to not lose sight of that.

Now, that said, when you put aside those very specific circumstances, some of the advice that I gave, again, I stand by because we have to get comfortable letting kids be uncomfortable.

BROWN: Yeah. And you say in your article that there's a difference between discomfort and harm, that those two things aren't equated, right? So I want you to just walk us through what you were hearing on social media, why people were freaking out about your quote, unquote, unhinged advice and just your overall response and kind of what you learned about culture right now with this. BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Yeah. So, specifically, I'll tell you specifically

about that particular comment that you just asked me about, and then I'll zoom out for a second. So, someone commented that letting your child be hungry if they don't eat what you serve is abuse. And I found that comment so instructive because we have equated as a western society discomfort with harm, right? And we have to get it straight. Discomfort is not harm. Harm, of course, can include discomfort, but discomfort in itself is not harm and can be instructive.

In my house, I serve a variety. My child will have something on that plate that he likes, but he knows that there isn't another meal coming after, right? So he has to engage with what I'm serving.

And now, more broadly, Pam, I think, you know, the backlash taught me that there really is almost a dissonance, right? Like everyone is so ready to say, yes, we have to raise kids who are resilient and who know how to fail. But then when it -- when it comes to, you know, letting them struggle and try different things, oh, never mind. I'll go ahead and make them a different meal so that the meal time doesn't turn into chaos, right?

And more importantly, when it comes to moms living their own lives and being full human beings who can go have a meal, a drink, God forbid, with their girlfriends to fill their own cup that is seen as abandoning a child rather than again, a mom filling her cup.

So, to me, this whole experience was a referendum on Western parenting and what moms are allowed to want and to be, and what kids are owed, Pam.

BROWN: Yeah, no, really, really interesting. I always think too, with kids like, it's okay to let them be bored when they say they're bored, I always -- I say to my kids, hey, then that means you get to use your imagination. How exciting is that?

And I do think the response is instructive to your advice as well, as you pointed out.

Dr. Edith Bracho-Sanchez, thank you so much.

BRACHO-SANCHEZ: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.