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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Escalations in Trump's War With Iran; Democrats Say, Top Banker Lied About His Ties to Epstein; Nun Detained and Released by ICE Speaks Out for the First Time. Fox Poll: 67 Percent Disapprove Of Trump's Handling Of The Economy; New Poll: AOC, Buttigieg Lead New Hampshire Primary Field; Anti-Government Anger Sparks "Cockroach" Protests. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 23, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, the hot mess, the Iran war, getting even messier tonight. Trump says Iran has evil intentions. He's threatening more strikes, oil prices surging. And oh, yes, an Iranian proxy jumps into the fray. Where the escalation stands now.

Plus, testimony from a top banker today described as jaw-dropping. What he told Congress about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein that has lawmakers calling him a straight-up liar.

Also, a nun ready to talk about having been detained by ICE. You heard me, a nun. What she said about her time in custody.

And the online movement spilling into the streets led by young people who proudly call themselves the Cockroach Party.

The Lead tonight, President Trump's plan for peace in the Middle East is getting rather confusing. Today, Secretary Marco Rubio insisted Iran is begging the U.S. for a deal. Hours later, Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They would like to do something, but I say they're not ready yet. They need more of the same. They're not ready yet. They got some evil intentions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: As sources tell CNN that both CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency, or DIA, assessments show the U.S. bombing campaign is unlikely to force Iran to the negotiating table. Meanwhile, President Trump did a 180 on his nuclear deal with Saudi Arabia, which had been initially criticized by nuclear policy experts. Now, he says it has a new lofty condition. The Saudis must normalize relations with Israel first by joining the Abraham Accords.

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt insists this is not new.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, this is a condition that the president has spoken about many times.

REPORTER: Why was that condition not mentioned yesterday when the energy secretary announced it?

LEAVITT: Well, look, the president is always the final dealmaker, as you know, and this is something that he has mentioned on numerous occasions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This morning, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu applauded the new requirement. There is also ongoing turbulence in the key waterways around the Middle East. Today, Secretary Rubio insisted Iran suckered its proxy, the Houthis, into attacking Saudi ships along the Red Sea.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us from the White House. Nic Robertson joins us from Jerusalem. Kristen?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it certainly seems as though it's escalating in terms of threats from President Trump. Today, President Trump told Axios that he was considering a massive attack, bigger than anything anyone had seen before.

Of course, we've heard this kind of rhetoric from the president before, and we know that he hasn't, as of yet, according to officials, signed off on those most extreme military options. But in addition to that, he threatened to bomb power plants and bridges every time that Iran struck a ship in the Strait of Hormuz.

And as you noted, he didn't seem to have any sort of appetite for a ceasefire. What's really striking is what you mentioned, this idea that at the same time his intelligence agencies have found this kind of bombing that the U.S. is doing every single night is not likely to move the Iranians' negotiating position. President Trump is saying they need more of the same.

Now, this also comes as President Trump has announced that his next cabinet meeting is going to be at Camp David, which is a secure facility in Maryland that operates also as a fully functioning White House. And it's all coming at a time in which this conflict, the war in Iran, seems to be coming at a head, both on the ground as well as politically.

President Trump has had a very hard time changing the messaging. There is so much focus on the war in Iran and the cost associated with it, not just the cost for the economy, but also American lives.

TAPPER: And, Nic, how likely is it that Saudi Arabia will join the Abraham Accords at a time when Israel is historically unpopular? There's obviously a very long history here.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And there is a long history. I think it's really unlikely. I think that's a real roadblock for the deal moving ahead, at least in the terms that we understand it at the moment. Look, there are a lot of people that thought that Hamas' brutal attacks on Israel, October 7th, 2023, came to prevent Saudi from moving ahead to normalizing relations with Israel, because that seemed to be the direction things were going in.

But it's been Israel's response to Hamas' brutal attack, Israel in Gaza killing more than 70,000 Palestinians there, many of them women and children. And the Saudi crown prince, the de facto ruler, has really hardened his position and said, look, there's no way I'm going to do normalization unless Israel accepts a path to a Palestinian state.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has pretty much indicated that's not going to happen. That seems to be an impasse. That's why it doesn't look like the deal will go ahead.

TAPPER: Nic, Secretary of State Rubio says he heard reports of a Saudi fuel ship that has a Chinese flag, suggesting that Houthis might risk further expanding this conflict if it becomes a problem for China.

[18:05:00]

Do you agree? How big of a deal could that be?

ROBERTSON: Look, if the Houthis were to target a Chinese-flagged vessel, even if it was carrying Saudi oil, which is what they say they're preventing getting out, that would be -- that would really look like a game-changer in many ways.

Why do I say that? Look, the Houthis, they're working for Iran here. They're trying to block another way of getting Saudi oil, international oil, to international markets. What the Chinese flagships have been able to do in the Strait of Hormuz is sign up to the Iranian deal there to allow them to pass through.

And by the end of today, we've heard that those Chinese-flagged vessels carrying Saudi oil have actually now got through Bab el- Mandab. They've got on their way to China. So, the indications are the Houthis, the Iranians are operating the same deal in the Red Sea. A Saudi vessel can't get through, but a Chinese-flagged one can, and that's a big problem going forward.

It's a big problem for the Saudis. You know, the briefings I've been getting, the Saudis were very likely to respond to anything that the Houthis did to their shipping. While their ship was hit last night, today President Trump says that if the Houthis do it again, he'll hit them and he'll hit the Iranians. But if you're the Saudis right now, you're wondering what President Trump is going to say tomorrow. Should they hit -- should the Saudis hit the Houthis? Will President Trump follow through on his word given what happened with the nuclear deal? This is part of the reason why the situation here is so complicated, is so stressful for leaders in the region. They are trying to read President Trump, and he is sending them mixed signals.

TAPPER: All right. CNN's Nic Robertson in Jerusalem, Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks to both you.

As Iran continues its counter-strikes on American allies, back home, Iran's Ministry of Intelligence is going after what the regime calls, quote, hostile human media. In a new sweeping anti-espionage law, the regime published a list of people, social media pages, organizations, and news outlets outside Iran and threatening legal action.

Joining us now, one of the people mentioned in this list of hostile human media, which is an honor, to be targeted as hostile to an oppressive regime. She's a frequent guest on The Lead, Actress and Activist Nazanin Boniadi.

First of all, I don't know if congratulations are in order, but I don't know what I have to do to be considered hostile to a regime that kills thousands of its own people. How did you find out you were on this list?

NAZANIN BONIADI, BRITISH IRANIAN ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST: Someone sent it to me, Jake, and you're right, it's a badge of honor, but I'm less concerned about being on a list like this and more concerned about what it means for the Iranian people, who as you know, were slaughtered back in January for demanding their rights, then were cut off from the world in a 88-day internet blackout, the longest in history state imposed nationwide blackout.

And now there is an expansion of an espionage law that was, by the way, implemented or brought in to effect in 2019. People think it's a response to Israel and the U.S. strikes. It's not. It's existed since 2019. It is being expanded. And what all it means is the Islamic Republic is fully aware that the Iranian people are its Achilles' heel.

TAPPER: Well, the thing is, I mean, I've talked to you countless times, and you're not calling for the regime to be killed. You're not calling for the regime -- the members of the regime to be executed. You're calling for human rights and dignity for the Iranian people. I mean, that's basically what I say. There are much harsher critics of the regime than you.

BONIADI: Well, I frankly am a harsh critic of the regime. I'm proud to be a harsh critic of the regime. I do want democracy for them.

TAPPER: Right.

BONIADI: I want the regime to be replaced with a representative and accountable government. Perhaps my rhetoric has not been as, you know -- yes, I'm not calling for them to be assassinated. I'm calling for them to be held accountable in a court of law is my preference. I want justice to prevail. I want the Iranian people to feel what justice is like. TAPPER: Don't misunderstand me.

BONIADI: Yes.

TAPPER: I'm not saying you're soft on the regime.

BONIADI: Yes.

TAPPER: I'm just saying like anything can like you --

BONIADI: Right. It's -- I'm calling essentially for international law to take effect.

TAPPER: I'm just saying it's --

BONIADI: Yes.

TAPPER: I mean, it's bizarre that they consider that so offensive. We have also had Iranian activist Masih Alinejad on the show many times. She's also on this list. And as you remember, in 2025, a federal judge convicted two men of plotting to kill her, to assassinate her in her New York City home. Clearly, Iran's threats don't stop at their borders. Does Masih's experience -- and thank God she survived it and she's stronger than ever, but does Masih's experience worry you at all?

BONIADI: Look, I think all of us run this risk of -- you know, what happened to Masih was awful. Another friend of mine in the U.K. was stabbed, was actually stabbed. Of course, that's what happened to Salman Rushdie.

TAPPER: Right.

BONIADI: And we all, you know, track these things.

But it pales in comparison to what the Iranian people are going through. And, frankly, I feel it is an obligation, at least for me, to do all I can to echo their voices at a time where their voices are not being heard.

[18:10:04]

And I just -- I want to reiterate how important it is, and this is precisely why I'm on this list, so I want to make this point, that human rights should never be sacrificed. It should not be the price we pay to negotiate- -with this terrorist regime. It should be a condition for any negotiation with this regime.

TAPPER: CNN's been reporting on the continued executions of political prisoners in Iran, too many of them rounded up after the January protests across Iran. They say they were tortured into making confessions. It's clear that the regime is sending the message is dissent will be met with death. What have you heard from other Iranians about all this?

BONIADI: You're right, Jake. It's 54 politically motivated executions in 2026. 50 of those, 50 of the 54 happened after the start of war in late February. So, there have been -- there's, you know, an increase of execution, surge in executions and these laws, the expansion of the espionage laws go to show that they are afraid of what's happening. They're more afraid of the people of Iran than of Israel and the U.S., frankly.

And, honestly, what they're telling me is, who is going to help us? What is the mechanism? The Islamic Republic has essentially created the perfect storm for silence and impunity. And what they're facing right now is not only the perils of war, but also crumbling infrastructure that is a result of corruption and mismanagement and neglect by the regime itself, a failing economy, 70 percent inflation, triple-digit inflation on food. The people are in dire straits economically. And on top of that, intensified repression at home that is -- you know, the war is being used as a pretext to escalate repression, intensify repression and call everything espionage.

And so under these conditions, how can the Iranian people rise up? People say, well, people are protesting. Silence is not consent in this context and under these conditions.

TAPPER: Well, speaking of silence, I don't know where the progressive activist community in this country is on any of these issues. It's quite deafening, their silence. It's shocking.

BONIADI: And another thing to your point, Jake, is when western media enter Iran and they cover what's happening in Iran, we have to understand that the Islamic Republic has ranked 177 of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index for Reporters Without Borders in 2026. There is no press freedom inside Iran.

TAPPER: Oh, none.

BONIADI: There is condition for that reporting.

TAPPER: Of course, 100 percent. Nazanin Boniadi you're a hero to us. Congratulations on the honor. Let me know how I need to do get on that list sometime. I mean, how many times do I need to have Masih and you on the show? At least an honorary degree.

BONIADI: Thank you.

TAPPER: A man who served as Jeffrey Epstein's personal banker testified before the House Oversight Committee today. Several members of Congress came away calling him a straight up liar. What this means for the committee's investigation, coming up.

And a Secret Service agent for Vice President J.D. Vance has been put on leave. He's suspected of leaking information to the news media. What a source tells CNN about that, next.

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[18:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Mr. Staley is clearly, in our opinion, just not being truthful and flat out lying.

REP. YASSAMIN ANSARI (D-AZ): It has been really jaw-dropping to see how the men who have come before us, and in some cases the women who have come before us, continue to lie so brazenly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Two House Oversight Committee Democrats blasting the testimony today from a former top financial executive named Jes Staley. Democrats say he straight up lied about his ties to the late convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. Staley was a top executive at JPMorgan, later becoming CEO at Barclays.

Today, Democrats said Staley claimed he had no friendship with Epstein, but that isn't what the Epstein files show. In fact, there are more than 1,000 emails between Staley and Epstein. Staley described their friendship as profound and referred to Epstein as family in those emails. The Epstein files also include sexual abuse allegations against Staley.

So, let's bring in Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois, who's also on the House Oversight Committee.

Congressman, your colleagues said they're disappointed but not surprised by how much Jes Staley straight up lied to them. What do you think? How would you characterize his testimony?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Yes, I think he lied. I think he told falsehood after falsehood. And I think that it stemmed primarily from his basically denial of any kind of friendship or personal relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, despite the thousands of emails that say the opposite. And, of course, he's been accused of rape. He's been accused of sex with minors.

You know, as one person, the general counsel of JPMorgan said it, he is not an honorable person in any way. Not an honorable person in any way. That was the reference to Jeffrey Epstein in an email to Jes Staley, who continued to defend him at JPMorgan Chase and ended up getting his help to get his CEO job at Barclays as well.

TAPPER: There have been allegations about Staley and Epstein, women that worked for Epstein with him. Was he asked about that?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, and he just -- again, it's like denial of everything. And I think that at this point, I think he should be brought back under oath. He should be properly deposed. I think a subpoena should be issued to him, and I think we should potentially pursue basically charges of lying to Congress. Despite the fact that it's a transcribed interview, he has no right to lie to Congress, and I think he's now exposed himself to jeopardy on that front as well.

TAPPER: Does the committee still have questions for other financial institutions that had ties to Epstein? KRISHNAMOORTHI: Oh, absolutely. Today, me and Elizabeth Warren and my colleague, Ro Khanna, in the House wrote a letter to Barclays basically questioning what kind of investigation they possibly did with regard to Jes Staley at the time that they questioned him about his ties to Epstein, and then it basically exonerated him.

[18:20:16]

And so they have a lot of explaining to do as well. And it's yet another example of just financial institutions being complicit in this Epstein affair.

TAPPER: The committee also raised some concerns about Todd Blanche. What were those concerns?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think, you know, Todd Blanche is basically, in my opinion, the chief architect of this cover-up of, you know, the Epstein files, Epstein affair. He is the one that has refused to disclose millions of pages of documents.

He's the one that gave Ghislaine Maxwell a venue to basically lie and deny any guilt in association with this sex trafficking ring. And he's the one that recently said that he thinks that, you know, the Epstein investigation should not be a 2026 matter.

And so that's why I and others have said he has no business being attorney general of the United States and he has proven himself to be Donald Trump's attorney, not the attorney for the people.

TAPPER: As you noted, Staley's testimony was not under oath. That has been a point of contention for several witnesses testifying. Why aren't they under oath?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: That is something that the Republican majority insisted on to proceed with this investigation.

I can guarantee you when there's a change in gavels and the majority is taken over by Democrats, that will not be the case. These people should not be just merely interviewed. They should be put under oath in a deposition. And there should be subpoenas if people aren't complying voluntarily.

TAPPER: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi from Illinois, thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: The Trump administration says it targets the worst of the worst. What about this nun in Texas who was on her way to church when ICE took her? Well, she's telling her story for the first time. That's next.

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[18:25:00] TAPPER: In our National Lead today, a nun from Nigeria detained by ICE while on her way to mass is speaking out publicly for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SISTER LETICIA LETTY UGBOAJA, NUN: Not to go to mass on Sunday, not to receive communion, it was very heartbreaking for me.

It's still hurting me up to today.

In the days since, I have prayed great deal, not only for myself, but about the fear I felt that morning and up to this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: ICE detained Sister Leticia Ugboaja, or Sister Letty, in McAllen, Texas, June 28th. She was released the next day. CNN has not heard back from the Department of Homeland Security when we called to find out what's going on.

Joining us now is Sister Letty's attorney, Carlos Garcia. Mr. Garcia, thanks for joining us.

Why is Sister Letty required to report back to ICE? What is her immigration status? Is she not here legally?

CARLOS GARCIA, SISTER LETTY'S ATTORNEY: Right. She has a grant of what's called withholding under the Convention Against Torture. Essentially an immigration court found that the government was foreclosed from sending her to Nigeria and granted her case so that she could continue to exist here in the United States.

TAPPER: So, she's here -- it sounds like from what you're saying is that she's here legally, like there's some sort of legal status that, that she's under. Is that right?

C. GARCIA: Right. So, essentially, she did fight an asylum case. That was denied. So, there is a final order of removal. But an immigration court did grant her this withholding of removal, which means that the United States government could not remove her to Nigeria.

But now ICE is attempting to remove Sister Letty, not to Nigeria but to a third country. And this is a separate legal pathway from the one that her protection forecloses, and it's currently the subject of active litigation in a nationwide class action called DVD versus DHS.

TAPPER: I'm just trying to understand why on earth this would be a priority for the Trump administration. What does she do is -- I mean, she looks like a nun to me, so I assume she lives with other nuns and does charitable works and prays and such. What -- how does spend her days?

C. GARCIA: Right. Sister Letty is a nun and a nurse. She was walking to church on that Sunday because she's a Eucharistic minister. She indicated this morning that she was walking with her rosary and her key, and she was going over the daily readings preparing herself to participate in the mass and that the agents drove up and picked her up, and she said, let me go to mass. I want to have communion, because for her that is something extremely important. She hasn't missed a Sunday communion in 34 years. And so that's what happened. And she was picked up and taken to a detention center.

TAPPER: Have they said that -- has ICE said which third country they want to send her to?

C. GARCIA: No, we don't have that information. And this is common. This is what's been going on across the country, that ICE picks up and detains people and then maybe informs them of the country that they're trying to send them or maybe they do not.

[18:30:01]

And, normally, it's that they do not inform the people.

But what we're saying is Sister Letty and other people like her across the country should have notice and should have the opportunity to be heard so that they can challenge whatever ICE is planning on doing.

TAPPER: Did Sister Letty describe how ICE treated her while she was being detained?

C. GARCIA: She was scared. She said she was scared, that she tried to ask questions and they said that they were taking her to a detention center. But she -- so because she's a nun and she's a woman of faith, she said she started praying, that she really wanted them to take her to have communion. But, of course, ICE said no, and that, to her, was the biggest obstacle for her that day. That was what was breaking her heart.

TAPPER: Carlos Garcia, thank you so much. Please send our love to Sister Letty.

C. GARCIA: Thank you.

TAPPER: What we're learning about a Secret Service agent on the detail for Vice President Vance put on administrative leave over an alleged leak to the news media.

Stay with us.

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[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a story that CNN broke, sources confirming that a Secret Service agent assigned to Vice President J.D. Vance has been put on leave and is under investigation for leaking information that included details of the vice president's travels. The MS NOW story involved plans, later canceled, for Vance and one of his children to take a U.S. Marine Corps helicopter to a golf lesson.

It's raising questions about whether the leak might have endangered the vice president and a larger question about morale problems among Vance's Secret Service detail.

CNN's Josh Campbell's here. He's a former FBI supervisory special agent. Josh, tell us more about this leak and what we're learning about the investigation.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, highly unusual, but I am hearing from a law enforcement source that one of the protective agents assigned to J.D. Vance is now on administrative leave and is subject to this internal investigation, and is essentially being investigated for the belief that this person had provided information to an MS NOW reporter that made its way into that story that you mentioned, that included details about Vance's travel.

Now, in a statement to CNN, the Secret Service confirmed that this internal investigation is underway. They would not get into any additional details. But we've been talking to sources, and, again, it stemmed from that MS NOW story that reported in detail that a lot of agents on the vice president's detail were concerned about a building morale issue. They say that they were frustrated by the often chaotic nature of his schedule that required them to then cancel their own days off.

Interestingly, there was a report in there as well about their concern about Vance's personal and public travel, using government resources at taxpayer expense, including purportedly taking Marine Two, the presidential helicopter, for a golf lesson for his son.

I'm told that that story caught the attention of the Secret Service, as well as the FBI and White House officials, Jake, who fumed over operational details, in their view, being made -- making their way to the press into this story. So, that inquiry, again, is launched. It's unclear whether this agent will face administrative or criminal penalties potentially.

We have reached out, Jake, to MS NOW for comment on this entire incident.

TAPPER: What are you hearing about those Secret Service concerns over Vance's allegedly unpredictable personal and professional travel schedule, and possible inappropriate use of helicopters or whatever?

CAMPBELL: Well, quite honestly, they do mirror things that we've been hearing for quite some time. Sources say that for several months, that agents on the detail, but also the U.S. military that provides support to Vance's travel. In law enforcement circles and military circles, there has been concern about this chaotic nature of Vance's schedule. They say that, frequently, there are trips that are started and stopped and rescheduled and started over again. And sometimes his movements, as you know, Jake, you've covered Washington for a long time, that can involve hundreds of people that support these visits. And so there has been this morale concern.

Of course, for the Secret Service, they say there is zero tolerance for anyone within the service to actually provide this type of information in detail to a reporter, which is, you know, why we're seeing this very serious investigation. The flipside, Jake, that we're hearing from some circles as well, including people in law enforcement that say, well, maybe people should pay attention to what is being reported here because if the agent believed that things were so dire and there was such a big issue, they felt their only option was to go to the press, maybe there's something there.

But, again, as I mentioned, law enforcement and Secret Service saying there's no tolerance when it comes to this.

TAPPER: Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

CAMPBELL: My pleasure.

TAPPER: Coming up in our Health Lead, insights into what it's like to live with terminal cancer for an upcoming report this Sunday night on CNN's The Whole Story.

I recently sat down with former U.S. Senator Ben Sasse. Sasse, as you may know, was diagnosed last December with stage four pancreatic cancer, and he was told he had only months to live.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Senator Sasse, it's been a long time. Thanks.

I've known Ben Sasse for more than a decade, having interviewed him many times over the years, and as you can see, cancer has certainly taken its toll physically on him.

FMR. BEN SASSE (R-NE): I have a great hospice doc who told me early on, she goes, when you're dying of an abdominal disease, you got an algorithm of four variables. You got pain from tumors, you got nausea from drugs and tumors, you got a constipation to diarrhea continuum, and you got an energy fatigue dimension. And she said, any of those problems, if you tell your doc you have a problem, they'll say there's a drug for that, and there's definitely a drug for that, and it might screw up the other three, so you got to manage the algorithm.

TAPPER: So, you're like an alchemist now.

SASSE: Yes, I'm a druggie. But I definitely would prefer to have more energy and less fatigue, and I'm willing to endure more puking and more pain to be alive. So, I do less drugs than would be normal for the amount of cancer I have.

TAPPER: And you, in order just to do this interview, you have to modify your drug regimen, right?

SASSE: I toned down my morphine a lot. Otherwise, I'd be giggling all the time.

TAPPER: So, you're in pain right now?

[18:40:00]

SASSE: A little, but not, it's not terrible. I mean --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: My conversation with Ben Sasse and his wife Melissa and his son, Brack, who's 15, is the feature on Sunday's episode of The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper. Look for that Sunday night at 8:00 here on CNN. The next day you can watch it on the CNN app. A very meaningful conversation for me, at least.

Some breaking news out of New York. Police are investigating two stabbings as possible hate crimes. Two men stabbed in broad daylight in Manhattan, apparently stabbed throughout their bodies. The police commissioner says that the attacker yelled, Allahu Akbar, during both stabbings. He adds that one victim is Asian, the other is Jewish, details still coming in, much more ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHM EMANUEL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The distraction from the Democratic Socialists actually adds a weight, and the party doesn't have a deep bench of support.

They have policies from defunding the police to decriminalizing the prison system to open borders, and we've tried that, and it's politically, electorally a failure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That is former Chicago mayor and possible 2028 presidential contender Rahm Emanuel just moments ago here on The Lead defending his warning to Democrats in The Wall Street Journal that, quote, the Bernie bros could spoil Democrats' midterms and beyond."

[18:45:09]

My panel is here.

Kate Bedingfield, with Rahm Emmanuel's argument that Democratic socialists are distracting on referendum on -- what should be a referendum on Trump. Do you agree?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do, yeah. So, look, I worked for Rahm in 2006 at the DCCC in a cycle where we won 30 House seats in a big Democratic wave.

And part of the way we were successful was putting forth candidates who were connected to the communities that that they were nominated from and who convinced voters who were very sour on George W. Bush that Democrats weren't super far left, soft on national security. I mean, you remember that was a big theme in the 2004 election, big challenge for John Kerry.

So, the short answer is yes, I do agree with him. I think that candidates who continue to stand behind comments about defunding the police and opening the border, are going to have a very hard time winning what should be very winnable seats in purple parts of this country when you look at how disgusted voters are with Donald Trump.

So, in short, yes, I do agree with him.

TAPPER: So, Carine, a new Fox poll shows 67 percent of registered voters disapprove and 33 percent approve of how President Trump's handling the economy. I mean, it is also possible that President Trump is so unpopular that this Bernie bro distraction, as Rahm Emanuel calls it, won't matter.

CARINE HAJJAR, FELLOW, STEAMBOAT INSTITUTE: That's certainly possible. When I've been out on the road covering certain midterm races, I'm always surprised to just hear the fatigue, not just with Trump's economy, but under the Biden economy, you heard a lot of fatigue, and then people were promised reprieve. The president kept saying a boom is on the way. It is not coming.

So, I do very much think it's not just that democratic socialists are sort of branding unpopular policies as socialism that alienates especially independent voters, where socialism is not as popular of a term as it is becoming among Democrats. So that's a problem, to your point, in midterms.

So, I think it's just going to be a competition between voter fatigue with Trump and this unpopular term.

TAPPER: This wild card. Senator Mitch McConnell, former Republican leader of the Senate, was admitted to the hospital on June 14th. His staff has been very tight-lipped about his recovery.

Today, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat in New York, was asked if the former Senate leader should just resign. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): If he can't give us an update, he should resign. Absolutely. We're seeing increasingly these votes are being decided by a one- or two-vote margin. And if you're not capable of -- not only not capable of doing the job presently, but we need to know if you're capable of doing the job for the foreseeable future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You know, it's kind of amazing to me that two years after the Biden disaster, we still have these gerontocracy problems and lack of transparency and people just holding on to the job as long as possible.

HAJJAR: Well, I think this is a comms miscalculation on the part of McConnell's office here. You had that a few weeks ago that the message from Senator McConnell that he's on the mend doing his physical therapy and all of that. And the senator does have a track record of being private about his own personal affairs. So that part hasn't surprised me as much.

But at this point, when it's catching up, you even have Republicans saying this is becoming a problem for us in committee. It's holding up the farm bill where votes are tied. It's holding up appropriations. So, I think people in his own party are going to start putting pressure on the senator.

TAPPER: And, Kate, speaking of AOC, a new battleground poll shows AOC leading a pack of potential 2028 Democratic presidential nominees in New Hampshire. Look at that, AOC, 22 percent, Buttigieg, 21, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, nine, Governor Gavin Newsom at eight, Bernie Sanders, who's not running, at six percent, Kamala Harris at five percent.

Now, look, it's a poll and it's early and all the caveats but I'm surprised by that. Are you?

BEDINGFIELD: I'm not -- I'm not super surprised in part because look AOC is extremely charismatic candidate.

TAPPER: Absolutely.

BEDINGFIELD: And she's out-front a lot. I mean, we were just looking -- we were just watching her respond to questions. You see her out engaging. So people are seeing her. They're --

TAPPER: She seems very authentic.

BEDINGFIELD: She's very authentic. She brings a tremendous amount of energy. She's also become by the way, she would probably not want me to say this, but she's becoming an increasingly savvy Washington player as well.

HAJJAR: Yeah.

BEDINGFIELD: And so, it actually doesn't surprise me when you have voters in New Hampshire and Democrats across the country who are so desperate for new leadership and are looking for new direction.

Now she, as we were just discussing a few minutes ago, she's going to have to grapple with some of the positions that of candidates that she's endorsed. I mean, she was standing with Abdul El-Sayed just a couple of weeks ago, and he has refused to back away from comments --

TAPPER: Not a couple of weeks. It was a few -- couple of days ago.

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: A couple of days ago.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BEDINGFIELD: And he has refused to back away from comments he made about defunding the police. And so, she is going to have to grapple with that, too. But she has an enormous amount of energy. I think people are looking

for a change. And I can understand why somebody who's looking around right now saying, what does the future of the Democratic Party look like might choose her.

[18:50:02]

TAPPER: This -- her popularity could be playing a factor in a bill that's stalled in the House right now that would let victims of non- consensual deepfake A.I. pornography file civil lawsuits, asked AOC's involvement if it's a factor. The lead Republican on the bill told "Politico," quote, "I do not think on any level that should be a barrier to us getting a vote on this bill."

So, the bill has broad bipartisan support. So, what is going on here, do you know?

HAJJAR: Well, it's interesting because it's also an example of how she's getting into the fray on stuff that, you know, this is bipartisan actions. She seems to be, and she probably wouldn't like to hear this, but she seems to be moderating a bit.

And I think for Republicans in particular, the message here is that branding her as a radical, as a socialist, isn't going to work. It didn't work in New York City with Mamdani. It's not going to work with AOC. She is charismatic at a time where there seems to be a vacuum of meaning in the Democratic Party, having somebody who speaks well, who shows up, who is always upfront actually matters more than the term itself, especially when Republicans, I don't think are doing enough to define the term socialism and say what's wrong with it.

So just branding her a socialist is not going to be enough. And she's doing the hard work to get out there.

TAPPER: Yeah, she is. I don't know if she shows up on my -- on my feed more than any other politician. And it's always like some remarkably human moment when she's walking in and out of the Congress. Somebody says, "When's the last time you cried while watching a movie?" And she stops and answers the questions. She seems like a normal human being.

BEDINGFIELD: Yeah, yeah. And running for president is a lot about charisma, especially in this day and age, in an era where our media is so fragmented and people, as you say, people, you know, see candidates in these clips and bites. And so, you know, attempts to label, certainly Republicans will do it.

But if you are somebody who can overcome that through force of charisma, I think the question for her is going to be, can she broaden the tent? Can she bring in independent voters who are maybe -- who may be questioned, maybe think of her as hard left, far left? Can she really sort of broaden out her message?

There's no question to my mind that she can bring the charisma. Can she bring a message that that will really invite independent voters into her coalition? That's that will be the test. TAPPER: No, absolutely. But do you think she'll be able to meet that moment? Do you think that she'll be able to appeal to beyond the DSA crowd? I mean, that's a big number out of New Hampshire. It's still under 20 percent.

HAJJAR: No, I think she'll be -- look, I think she there was this point of overlap with AOC and Trump voters over the last presidential election. And right now, the lines are being blurred with populism surging on both sides of the aisle. And so, if she can carve out a lane, if she can moderate a little, I think she'll be able to pull up some voters out of the woodwork.

But she's still going to have to do a lot of hard work to prove that she actually moderated and also foreign policy. This is a weakness of hers.

TAPPER: And also, we I don't know that she's running for president.

BEDINGFIELD: That, too.

HAJJAR: No, no.

TAPPER: I mean, it's also possible that Chuck Schumer retires, and she runs for that seat.

HAJJAR: Yeah.

TAPPER: Could be a wiser move. I don't know. What do I know?

Carine Hajjar and Kate Benningfield, thanks so much.

It started as an online joke, but leaders don't think the cockroach party is funny anymore. Why millions of frustrated young demonstrators hope they stay pests, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:23]

TAPPER: Here's some breaking news for you in our world lead. It is already Friday in India, where there is a call for more nationwide protests. Massive demonstrations this week have called for government reform, all organized by a youth-led political party whose members call themselves cockroaches.

CNN's Ivan Watson has more on that and the demands of the cockroaches.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Indian government has a cockroach problem, a youth protest movement that calls itself the Cockroach Janta Party.

On Monday, thousands of these demonstrators descended on New Delhi, a rare mass protest in the heart of India's capital defying a police ban. Police firing tear gas to stop the protesters from marching to the

Indian parliament.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope they listen to us, because if not now, then I don't know if it is -- if it's a democracy or like dictatorship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've had bad governments, but we've never had such an evil government. because this government is only interested in power, fame, and money. They are genuinely non-biological. They don't have a shred of decency in them.

WATSON (voice-over): The Cockroach Party began barely two months ago with this social media post from Abhijeet Dipke, a graduate student from Boston University, in response to a top judge who appeared to call India's unemployed youth "cockroaches".

INDIAN JUDGE: They are youngsters like cockroaches.

WATSON (voice-over): Dipke launched the Cockroach Party, demanding reform of the country's scandal-prone education system and the firing of the education minister.

That official has since called the Cockroach Party terrorists.

Last month, the Cockroach Party began a small sit-in protest in downtown Delhi. It was joined by activist and educator Sonam Wangchuk, who went on hunger strike. On Saturday, police forcibly removed Wangchuk from the protest, taking him to a hospital.

Since then, a movement that had existed mostly online suddenly burst onto the streets of Indian cities.

On Monday, India's health minister met face-to-face with Cockroach Party representatives, asking them to end their sit-in.

But they're still calling for the resignation of the education minister. A rare show of defiance that's put the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the defensive.

Ivan Watson, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Ivan Watson for that report.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.