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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Filmmaker Gets Rare Behind-The-Scenes Access With Sen. Graham; RPT: Debt & Dysfunction Dog DNC Chair Martin Ahead Of Midterms. Aired 5:00-6p ET
Aired July 27, 2026 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you all being here today. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Always appreciate you. You can now stream, don't forget, "The Arena." We are on live. You can catch up whenever you want in the CNN app. The Q.R. code is there on your screen. You can also catch up by listening to "The Arena" podcast. You can follow us on X and Instagram or at @thearenacnn. There is another Q.R. code for the podcast right there. But don't go anywhere. "The Lead with Jake Tapper" starts right now.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is "CNN Breaking News."
JAKE TAPPER, CNN LEAD WASHINGTON ANCHOR: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. We begin with breaking news in our "Law and Justice Lead." President Trump today asked the U.S. Supreme Court to allow his administration to implement an executive order aimed at curbing mail- in voting.
That executive order would let the Postal Service and the Department of Homeland Security screen voter rolls for potential non-citizen voters. That's the reason they give anyway. It requires states to give the Postal Service lists of eligible voters and then instructs the Postal Service to not send any ballots to anyone not on those lists.
Twenty-three Democratic-led states have challenged the executive order, noting that the U.S. Constitution leaves the running of elections largely to the states, not to the White House. The federal district court blocked the implementation of the executive order for this year's election in the states that sued, and a federal appeals court just upheld that ruling this past weekend.
Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Elie, walk us through the legal argument here.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, Jake, the Constitution is quite clear that there are only two entities that have control over how elections are administered. In the first instance, it's up to the states or the U.S. Congress can pass laws that would essentially override the states. Notably absent from that list is the president or the executive branch. And so, Trump's executive order, which he issued back in March, is essentially an attempt to end-run that constitutional provision. As you say, in this executive order, Trump first of all tells DHS, you have to develop these things called state citizenship lists.
If you look at the executive order, the order doesn't even know how you're supposed to put those lists together. It says basically, well, DHS, look at various databases and do your best to pull together lists of eligible voters, and those lists will override the state lists. And then the second thing the order says to do is, the U.S. Postal Service, you are only to deliver mail-in ballots to people who are on this master federal list.
And so, the argument challenging this executive order, which has been successful so far by these states, says basically this is the executive branch inserting itself, the president inserting himself, into the electoral process, which is reserved only for the states or for Congress.
TAPPER: And court filings show that the federal appeals court ruling to uphold the ban on the executive order did so because the U.S. Postal Service could implement Trump's order in some states, but not others. We should note, we're 99 days away from the midterm elections or at least from midterm election day. It's getting a little late for this.
HONIG: Yes, and that's legally relevant. First of all, the courts have made clear time and again that you are not supposed to mess with the rules around elections if we get too close to elections. And now, we are really close to elections.
And, in fact, one of the arguments, really the only argument the Justice Department even made to defend this thing is to say, well, it's premature because DHS and the Postal Service haven't even done what they're supposed to do yet. But the response to that is, yes, that's exactly why you need to block this, because it's going to create chaos, because here we are three or so months before the election, because we're in a status right now where half the states are opposing this and half the states want to do it, and that's why the challengers say the courts need to come in and block this.
TAPPER: How likely is it, do you think, that the U.S. Supreme Court will hear this appeal as opposed to refusing to hear it and let the appeals court verdict stand?
HONIG: Yes. So, the Supreme Court is out of session now, but they are still considering cases on what we sometimes call the emergency docket or the shadow docket. It takes five of the nine justices to intervene in a case off of the emergency docket.
No matter what the Supreme Court does, they're going to be involved because if they turn this case down, then the lower court, the Court of Appeals ruling, stands, which blocks this executive order. That's option one.
Option two, if the court decides to get involved, then they might agree. They might agree that this is causing chaos and against the Constitution or they might overturn it. They might say, go ahead, you can try to move forward with this. But if that's the case, Jake, then we're going to have chaos as a practical matter.
TAPPER: Elie Honig, thanks so much. We're going to have much more on the story to come.
There's another major story that we're following tonight related to how President Trump is trying to change the United States of America, and that is the desperate effort by hundreds of thousands of people to stay in this country legally, as they have been, in the wake of the consequential decision by the conservative supermajority on the U.S. Supreme Court.
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These people may lose soon a form of humanitarian relief known as TPS, Temporary Protected Status, referring to immigration status. If they do lose TPS, immigration officials can begin deporting scores of migrants, and these are individuals from war-torn and disaster- stricken countries such as Haiti, Syria, Somalia, and Yemen, who had been admitted to the U.S. with temporary legal status out of humanitarian concern.
These are people who had been living and working legally in the U.S. until the Supreme Court's decision in June, people such as, for example, this woman in Miami who didn't want us to show her face.
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UNKNOWN: I want to remind others that us, TPS recipients, we are your neighbors, we are your caretakers, the co-workers. We are with you, and we are contributing to this community that we live in, we love.
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TAPPER: Now, people such as her could be subject to deportation at the hands of ICE. Speaking of which, ICE's vetting practices for its hirees are now under review. That revelation coming on CNN's State of the Union yesterday where my colleague, Dana Bash, asked Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, about court records indicating that the ICE agent connected with the fatal shooting of a man in Maine earlier this month, that this ICE agent had a history of domestic violence, allegedly.
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TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: Did the vetting process fail? Was that information not available? Did they not know? So, there's a separate administrative investigation on what happened here. Did we have that information? Did we not have information? But vetting process, if that was factual, he would have an almost impossible time to pass vetting.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Joining us now, Republican Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, who has been outspoken about the potential loss of thousands of Haitian migrants with TPS status in Ohio. Governor, thanks for joining us. So, when the Supreme Court decision came down in late June, you wrote that more than 10,000 Haitians who have been living in Ohio may be subject to immediate deportation. What has happened with that community since?
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R), OHIO: Well, most of them have continued to work. I think some of them, you know, have left. We don't really know how many, but there are certainly a lot of them there that are still working. Of course, as you know, what happens when TPS actually goes into effect, which looks like it will be tomorrow, they can't work anymore, and they won't have any way to make a living. It will be illegal for companies to employ them.
So, it's going to be a big blow to the community. These are people who came here to work. They came here to fill jobs that were not being filled. The city of Springfield has come back strongly over the last few years, an old industrial city that now is really coming back and moving forward.
One of the reasons they've been able to do that is because of the Haitians who have filled these jobs. They not only have filled jobs, they started to open restaurants. They bought homes and rehab houses. They have done a lot of things that, frankly, have contributed to the community. And for them to be lost is going to be a big blow to Springfield and it's going to be a big blow to the state of Ohio. I think, though, it's not just about Ohio, it's not just about Springfield.
If you look at caregivers, you look at long-term care in this country, about a third of them, people who work in nursing homes are immigrants.
TAPPER: Yes.
DEWINE: If you look at home health care, where they keep people in their own home, which is what we want, you know, about -- again, about a third of those individuals are immigrants. And so, when you start deporting them and getting them out, people are really going to suffer. They are going to really feel it.
TAPPER: Yes. Congressman Mike Lawler, who's a Republican from New York, has talked about how many individuals who work in retirement communities in his congressional district have TPS status. They're Haitians. If this goes into effect, you say you hear it might be tomorrow that the TPS status will be taken away, it then becomes illegal, as you noted, to employ these people.
What are you hearing from businesses and business owners about how they plan on coping? What they're going to do if these are jobs that American citizens don't necessarily want?
DEWINE: Well, first of all, Ohioans are going to follow the law. They're not going to employ people that it's illegal to employ. So, that's one thing you can pretty much be guaranteed. Look, people have known this day is coming for some time or thought it was probably coming. And so, there has been some adjustment. You have had some Haitians who have self-deported. I can almost guarantee you that none of them are going back to Haiti as a hellhole today. It's worse than it has ever been. And it's a dysfunctional government. The gangs are running most of the country. Nothing functions at all.
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There's total chaos. So, no, people are not going to go back there. They're going to try to go to other places.
But if you look at the people who are still there, these are people who put down deep roots in the community. They have children. Many of their children are U.S. citizens. They've opened businesses. They've done all kinds of things to be a part of the community. And for this to end just like that is not -- it's just not good for the community and it's certainly not good for these individuals who've really put down their roots here.
TAPPER: On another matter, I'd love to get your reaction to the breaking news that President Trump today asked the U.S. Supreme Court to allow the administration to implement his executive order aimed at curtailing mail-in voting. Last month, you vetoed a bill requiring photo I.D. for mail-in voting in Ohio. What's your response to this latest news?
DEWINE: Well, I vetoed the bill, Jake, because there's no way to verify it. What the bill would have done is made it less secure instead of more secure. So that's why I vetoed the bill.
Look, Ohio does a good job in running elections. We have a lot of people who take advantage of mail-in ballots. We do a good job monitoring that. We do a good job monitoring people who go to the polls and vote. I mean, if you have a state-issued I.D. and, you know, some non-citizens don't, it's going to say right on there, non- citizen. So, we're very careful, and we do a very good job in Ohio.
TAPPER: Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it.
Seattle Police releasing new details this afternoon about a teenager in custody and a second suspect who remains on the run. This is after a shooting at a popular food festival in Seattle. We're going to go live to the scene with an update next. Plus, "The Lead" has an exclusive clip from one of the last interviews with the late senator, Lindsey Graham, where he seemed skeptical of Trump's plans on one issue. Stick with us.
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TAPPER: In our "Law and Justice Lead," one weekend, two cities, two festivals turned from joy into horror. On Saturday, in Berlin, an Islamist extremist known to law enforcement ran his vehicle into a gay pride celebration, then proceeded to attack people with a machete. At least one person was killed, 29 others injured in an act that authorities labeled an Islamist terrorist attack. They tracked down and killed the suspect yesterday.
Also, on Sunday, at a food festival in Seattle, three people were killed, several others, including a toddler injured in a burst of gunfire, Seattle Police believe. Two men were shooting at each other and at least seven victims, if not more, were caught in the crossfire. So far, only one suspect, a 15-year-old, is in custody.
CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is in Seattle where the manhunt continues for the second suspect.
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UNKNOWN: Get down! Get down! Get down!
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Festival goers in downtown Seattle fleeing and ducking for cover as gunfire erupted after two people started shooting towards each other Sunday shortly after 6 p.m., according to officials.
CHIEF SHON BARNES, CHIEF, SEATTLE POLICE: Our officers as well as members from the fire department, medic team, ran toward gunfire in an attempt to render life-saving aid and to disarm someone who was actively firing a weapon into a crowd.
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): The shots were fired close to the city's landmark Space Needle, at a popular food festival that draws hundreds of thousands of visitors each year.
UNKNOWN: The shots just went off (ph). Oh, my God.
UNKNOWN: I saw families, kids. Everyone just, like, running out of the -- out of the fair. Someone was yelling, active shooter. I jumped the fence quickly, and I ran.
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Three people were killed, a 19-year-old man, a 44-year-old man, and a 56-year-old woman. At least four others were injured, including a two-year-old boy.
Dispatch audio captured the tense moments after shots were fired at the Bite of Seattle festival --
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Suspect may have an automatic weapon. Rapid fire, rapid fire.
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): -- including calls to treat the child.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Anyone have a small, a child tourniquet size?
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Only the toddler is still hospitalized, and he's in satisfactory condition, according to the hospital. It took stunned festival goers just moments to realize something was terribly wrong.
UNKNOWN: Shooting, oh (bleep). (Bleep) here.
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): But soon, surprise turned to panic.
UNKNOWN: There was a lot of chaos, you know. My brother actually got pushed, you know, and he fell. He's pretty bruised up right now.
UNKNOWN: Multiple shots, but I can't say how many. And then a lot of people didn't react at first because we thought, oh, it must be firecrackers or something.
VARGAS JONES (voice-over): Two weapons were recovered after the shooting, and police say there were two shooters. So far, one suspect, a 15-year-old, is in custody.
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VARGAS JONES (on camera): And, Jake, police said that 15-year-old surrendered on scene. He was then booked in a juvenile facility. And just in the past hour, a judge determined that there was indeed probable cause to arrest him. He's being investigated for both violations of firearms and first-degree assault, but it's unclear if and which charges prosecutors will be bringing against him. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. CNN's Julia Vargas Jones in Seattle, thank you so much. Now, let's turn to that deadly car ramming into a crowd gathered for a pride celebration. Berlin German authorities say this was an Islamist terrorist attack.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in the German capital. And Fred, the suspect who was killed by police yesterday, he was known to police as -- quote -- "a member of Islamic circles" -- unquote -- before Saturday's attack. What more do we know about his past?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're certainly absolutely right. So, he's a -- he was a 21-year-old German citizen. He was actually born in Berlin, but of Lebanese descent.
You're absolutely right, the authorities here in Germany are saying that he was in what they called Islamist circles. The other thing that they say about him as well is that in 2025, he apparently went to Lebanon to then try and go to Syria, to then join the Islamic State there, but he was stopped by Lebanese authorities.
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He was then actually in jail in Lebanon for a while, in custody, before being transferred back to Germany, where he was actually sentenced by a German juvenile court for allegedly trying and plotting crimes against the state. But he was let out on parole. So there certainly are questions being asked here in Germany as to why exactly this person, where the writing did seem to be on the wall as far as some of the authorities were concerned, was actually not in custody at the time that all this happened.
There's a really interesting media report out here in Germany tonight by several German media organizations who say that he was known to the authorities to the extent that he was actually under observation until about one hour before going to that pride parade and then driving that rental car through it. Apparently, the last known time that he was observed leaving his apartment was about one hour before all of this took place. So clearly, the authorities knew who he was, knew that he was dangerous but, at the same time, he obviously slipped through their observation and then managed to then get on that pride parade.
One of the things, Jake, I was actually out in the area of that parade. The Germans had cordoned that area off. So, one of the questions that's also being asked is how that van managed to get through those barricades. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Berlin for us, thank you so much. The Pentagon just quietly updated its war database, revealing an additional 140 U.S. service members have been injured in the war with Iran. What else the new data reveals? That's next.
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TAPPER: In our "World Lead," the Pentagon is revising its accounting of the war with Iran after casualty numbers appear surprisingly and shockingly to drop last week. But the defense database has now been updated and it now shows 18 U.S. service members killed, 624 wounded since the start of the conflict, restoring four troops who had disappeared from the online tally. The Pentagon says a temporary data disruption caused the errors.
But questions remain over a new -- quote -- "overseas operations" category created on its casualty website. That category, which begins with the July 7th casualties, does not provide details identifying the conflict or explain which operations are included. The Pentagon, characteristically, has refrained from immediately clarifying what that covers.
Joining us now, former congressman, Adam Kinzinger. Congressman, thanks so much. Obviously, you are an Air Force veteran and served in the Air Force Reserves as well. The Pentagon originally said that the casualty numbers changed because of a technical issue on its website. Then yesterday, they announced these new classifications on its database. I'm confused as to what's really going on. What questions do you have about this? Do you buy the Pentagon explanation?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: No, I don't. I mean, a technical error to erase four casualties and then you end up creating a whole new area to put -- this is -- this is clearly an attempt to try to downplay the cost to the United States of the Iran war. And honestly, Jake, this has been the president's problem from the beginning, agree or disagree with whether or not he should have launched this attack. He spent no effort preparing the American people for it. He gave the State of the Union speech like two days prior to launching this, and he barely mentioned Iran as an issue.
So, they're trying to downplay it. There's a big psychological thing with losing more troops than were killed at the Abbey Gate attack and Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan. That is what -- I think there's somebody that's trying to keep that number close to equal and doesn't want to exceed it.
TAPPER: There's also this question about whether the Pentagon is doing stealth edits to press releases about the killed in action service members, removing details about where they were serving and what missions they were conducting. For example, they originally announced two service members died -- quote -- "supporting Operation Inherent Resolve." That's the Iran war. Then they changed it to -- quote -- "supporting overseas operations in Jordan" even though these individuals were obviously killed by Iranian drones. What do you make of this change?
KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, again, I think this is all an effort to try to obscure the total cost here. I mean, CNN has done amazing reporting, I think it was a couple months ago, about the actual strikes that have hit American infrastructure overseas, for instance.
And I think there's this attempt to try to downplay the cost of this, whether it's the missile stockpile which -- by the way, we have plenty of bombs and missiles. What we don't have plenty of is the very high- end standoff weapons that are usually used to allow us to gain air superiority, where we can go in and drop the cheaper stuff. Instead, we've been relying totally on those missiles, so we have a lower stockpile.
Obviously, American infrastructure has been hit overseas. I talked to friends of mine that are still in the military that tell me crazy stories about what has been hit that they're near.
I think the president and the Pentagon and the administration in general needs to level with the American people. America is willing to bear some sacrifice in this if they know what the objective is. But this president will not tell us what the objective is, pretends like this war has been over from day one. And now, they're just trying to hide the real impact, it seems.
TAPPER: So, you're talking anecdotally about friends of yours who are still in the service talking about how -- I presume you're talking about what I've heard from contacts also, that a lot of the bases in the region in the Middle East that have been hit by Iran have been devastated much more than the Trump administration and the Pentagon are acknowledging.
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Tell us what you've heard. KINZINGER: Yes, basically the same thing. What I'm cautious on is, you know, I won't obviously, as you won't either, won't say where because I don't know what kind of security issue that presents. But stuff has been hit. I mean, I had a friend send me a picture of basically a living area that was hit very near to where he was living. You know, I've heard about in the early stages of the Iran war, there were supply shortages in terms of food and water in some areas.
And again, the military can sacrifice. The military knows the dangers that we sign up for, but we want to know that we have a president and an administration that's leveling with us, doing everything they can to protect us, and also leveling with the American people.
But there is a reason that CNN has to go out and kind of do its own research to figure out how much damage has been done to our bases because the Pentagon doesn't want anybody to know. And they can try to say it's for security. Some of that may be legit, but I think the reality is much of it is to try to save this president from embarrassment.
TAPPER: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Republican of Illinois, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Just a few weeks before his passing, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham gave an interview expressing some serious reservations about some of Trump's plans. The reporter with whom Senator Graham spoke joins us to share an exclusive clip from that sit down. That's next.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A lot of the bases in the region in the Middle East that have been hit by Iran have been devastated much more than the Trump administration and the Pentagon are acknowledging. Tell us what you've heard.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, basically the same thing. And what I'm cautious on is, you know, I won't obviously, as you won't either, won't say where because I don't know what kind of security issue that presents, but stuff has been hit. I mean, I had a friend send me a picture of basically a living area that was hit very near to where he was living. You know, I've heard about in the early stages of the Iran war, there were supply shortages in terms of food and water in some areas, like all of, and again, the military can sacrifice.
The military knows the dangers that we sign up for, but we want to know that we have a President and an administration that's leveling with us, doing everything they can to protect us, and also leveling with the American people. But there is a reason that CNN has to go out and kind of do its own research to figure out how much damage has been done to our bases because the Pentagon doesn't want anybody to know. And they can try to say it's for security. Some of that may be legit, but I think the reality is much of it is trying to save this President from embarrassment. TAPPER: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Republican of Illinois. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Just a few weeks before his passing, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham gave an interview expressing some serious reservations about some of Trump's plans. The reporter with whom Senator Graham spoke joins us to share an exclusive clip from that sit down. That's next.
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TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a revealing new look at the role the late Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, played in several of America's most critical geopolitical conflicts as a trusted longtime advisor to President Trump and through the relationships that he fostered with world leaders such as Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu or Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman or MBS and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The footage is from an upcoming documentary called "Lindsey's Game." In one of the project's final interviews taped this June, Graham revealed some of his candid thoughts on the state of the war with Iran.
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LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Iran, he's letting this thing slip away. We had him on the ropes and his indecisions coming back to hurt us. I got to go talk to him, you know, open up the straits, keep the pressure on, unleash Israel to hurt them and maybe you'll get a better deal. But the big deal, Saudi, Israel, you went with me. That's the big prize. And that can't happen until Israel and Saudi believe Iran can't be an upheaval force that they've been put in a box.
And here's the good news. MBS and Bibi have two things in common. They owe Trump a lot, like Trump, but they're afraid of Trump. And Trump is the first president who doesn't hold back when it comes to Israel. I mean, I think he's going a bit too far, but he will dress Bibi down in a way that no other Republican president has ever done. That gives him some credibility in the Arab world.
And I'm going to exploit that this is the party of Trump. And what I'm trying to do is prove that isolationism is an outlier in our party. So this was a referendum on isolationism versus Lindsey Graham, MAGA Trump.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: It's fascinating stuff. Joining us now is Alex Holder. He's the documentary filmmaker who captured this revealing behind the scenes footage and much more fascinating clip. He really, I mean, that's Lindsey. For those of us who had known him, I knew him for 27 years.
And it shows a little bit of frustration that he wouldn't naturally say publicly with President Trump and how he was prosecuting or not prosecuting the war on Iran. What do you think people should take away from that?
ALEX HOLDER, FILMMAKER, AJH FILMS: I think people should take away that he was a very influential voice with respect to the Iran war. And I think he was disturbed with the way that the war was being prosecuted and that he had every intention to go and speak to President Trump and others in the administration to keep pushing on this particular issue.
TAPPER: So you filmed hundreds of hours of raw camera footage. You interviewed him for four years, four and a half years.
HOLDER: Yes.
TAPPER: Wow. What do you think when we get to see it, when you make the movie, et cetera, et cetera, when -- what do you think it reveals about him that Americans might not know?
HOLDER: I think it reinforces the point that he was as consequential and influential with respect to geopolitical issues. I mean, I kind of called him the secretary of state of the Senate. I mean, he was out there meeting with people like MBS, with President Zelenskyy in Ukraine, with the prime minister of Israel. He was a very influential voice, obviously speaking to President Trump as well. So I think he had, in some ways, an oversized impact with respect to the most important geopolitical issues today in the U.S. and the world.
TAPPER: So you were a real fly on the wall, except with an expensive camera, for so many conversations he had with these world leaders. What surprised you the most?
HOLDER: I think in some respects, I think he didn't actually take the things that he was doing for granted. I think he was surprised about the level of, you know, sort of the what he was able to achieve in his geopolitical issues. I think he was like, you know, I'm a senator from South Carolina, and I'm here in Saudi Arabia trying to do a peace deal with Israel and the Saudis.
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But for me, the level of access was absolutely extraordinary. I mean, we were, there were some days where we'd be filming and not much would happen. And then other days, the phone would ring, and we would be in there to capture some of the most historic, I mean, real history, right? Phone calls, conversations, you know, the Secretary General of the United Nations would call in, and we'd be there to capture all this fascinating conversations.
TAPPER: Some of the people that Graham was speaking with didn't know, on the other end of the phone, didn't know that they were being recorded. What has the reaction to that revelation been?
HOLDER: There have been a few phone calls I've been getting.
TAPPER: I'm sure. I'm sure. But you've had Graham's blessing. Senator Lindsey Graham's sister, who he helped raise, Darline Graham, she was obviously appointed to fill her brother's seat. In an interview with "Fox," she indicated that she doesn't want to focus on foreign policy the way her brother did. She's going to be focusing more on affordability issues, groceries, gas, health insurance. Did that surprise you?
HOLDER: Look, I mean, I met Senator Graham's sister a couple of times. They had a very, very close relationship. I think, personally, my own personal opinion is that I think he'll be very proud of her right now. But as to her own political views, we'll see.
TAPPER: Yes. All right. Well, congratulations, Alex. Really fascinating stuff. Can't wait to see more. Appreciate you being here.
HOLDER: Pleasure.
TAPPER: Some Democrats are now calling for the head of the Democratic National Committee to step down after a report of serious disarray inside the DNC just 99 days ahead of the midterms. Our panel's going to weigh in next.
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TAPPER: We're back in our Politics Lead. We are 99 days away from the midterm elections, and reporting from inside the Democratic National Committee is exposing how the DNC is $2 million in debt, also exposing major internal dysfunction, sowing doubt about the party's chances in November. Lots of anxiety for the DNC Chairman Ken Martin, leading to apparent workplace incidents. According to "The New York Times" "In a peak of frustration in early July, he threw his phone at the desk of a junior aide while operating the person, resulting in a formal complaint to the DNC's Human Resources Department."
My panel's here. All right. We got three journalists and one Democrat. Adrienne, you're in the fun part of the Democrat. How worried are you about the leadership of the DNC right now? How worried are you about the debt? What's going on?
ADRIENNE ELROD, FORMER SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN, HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN: I mean, Jake, I'm worried. First of all, I worked on Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2016, and she inherited, when she became the nominee, a very decimated DNC because Obama had put so much money into Organizing for Action, a separate organization that was doing a lot of the grassroots work, which was great, but a lot of donors were giving to that and not the DNC.
So we inherited a really messy voter file. We inherited very little infrastructure. So while this is bad right now, if this issue does not get fixed by the end of the cycle going into 2027, we're going to be in even more trouble. Now, I want to say this. I think some of the staff of the DNC, or pretty much all the staff I know working at the Democratic National Committee right now, are some of the best operatives in the business. It's not on the staff. It is on the leadership. And the bottom line is this. You should, yes, we want to rebuild the state parties in blue and red states. We want to make sure that they are getting the investments they deserve. But if you're $2 million in the red, you shouldn't be giving the Democratic Party of Guam, the Democratic Party of the Mariana Islands. Collectively, I think with the four parties in the four island territories, it was a total of almost a million dollars since he became the chair. So a lot of things that need to get fixed. The good news is there is time to do it.
TAPPER: Should he step down?
ELROD: That is not my decision to make. But I think at the very least, he should empower former chairs like Terry McAuliffe, Donna Brazile. Let's get a robust team of co-chairs in place who can go out there and help raise money.
TAPPER: Jasmine, the DNC took out a $15 million loan last year. Your team reports that they leveraged their own headquarters as collateral. A DNC official told you in a statement, "This is not new. The loan documents were released in November, and the DNC's building was also used as collateral in our prior lines of credit 2019, 2018, 2014, many other years." Is that how critics of Ken Martin are seeing this? Is this nothing new under the sun?
JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NOTUS: Absolutely not. That is the opposite of what they're seeing. And actually, they're seeing it as just one of the many examples of what they feel is an intensifying problem with the Democratic Party's debts, with their accounting, and perhaps their viability for the future.
I mean, take that building, for example, right? Yes, they have used it before as collateral on other loans. But this $15 million loan, which they took out in 2025, so an off-year election, was the highest that they've done so far in an off-year election. And it's happening in a moment where people are concerned that they may not be able to start making those payments.
Those payments for this specific loan, it starts in January, and they owe about a million dollars just off the top. And so that's going to be coming after this really expensive 2026 midterm election. And so it's really drawing a lot of concern. I know that you didn't go as far as to say that Ken Martin should step down, but so many of the people that we spoke to are hoping that this reporting leads to him leaving his place of leadership.
ELROD: And I think that to your point, donors will be the ultimate decider here. If donors are not going to give the DNC, which they're not doing already, but if that even increases, he will have no choice.
TAPPER: And Lulu, let's be clear here. All of this is happening while the Republican National Committee has $130 million just sitting right there, and that's not even talking about President Trump's $400 million political operation, his Super PAC. I mean, it's incredible because you would think Democrats would have an easy time.
[17:50:06] LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Can I just tell you, this is, when you talk to Democratic voters and they say, I hate the Democratic Party, guess what they're thinking about? They're thinking about this. You have a moment where Democrats are poised. I mean, Trump's approval ratings are in the toilet. People are frustrated. There's a war with Iran. There is inflation. There is measles and exploding diarrhea. And yet the Democrats are hawking their building in order to get money so that they can finance races. This is the dumbest, dumbest, dumbest story.
And I just have to tell you, they should be seeing 99 bottles of beer on the walls that are 99 days to the election because it's just like they cannot get their caca together.
TAPPER: So, and Adrienne, Ken Martin and the DNC wrote a Substack post to address the party's financial stress. This is last week. And Martin wrote -- writes "Why does the DNC have less cash on hand than some expect? Because we made a conscious decision to invest money in the work required to win in 2025 and 2026 and beyond. A party is not a savings account. Its purpose is to build power." What do you think about that?
ELROD: Again, I think if you are sitting on, as Lulu mentioned, the RNC that has $150 million in cash on hand, you can go out and you can invest in these state parties. You can invest in the 50 state infrastructure. If you are several million in the red and you're using the building as collateral to try to pay your loan, then you can't. So the bottom line is this. The DNC chair's job is to raise money and go on T.V. and attack Trump every day.
I haven't seen Ken on T.V. in a long time and we're in the red and this is just not going to be sustainable. And look, Jake, one more point. The DCCC, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, those are the two major committees that play a role in the midterms. They are both robust with cash. Our candidates have cash. We will have a good midterm despite the DNC's financial situation, but we've got to get it together going into 2020.
TAPPER: And Jasmine, your reporting also suggests Ken Martin has been really worried about holding on to his job, getting mad at leaks, throwing that phone and on and on. Do the Democrats you talk to think that he's going to be in that job for much longer?
WRIGHT: They're a bit mixed on this. Obviously, the height of some of the upsetness at Ken Martin happened after that 2024 autopsy botch release, and there people really wanted to see him step down because if you can't even handle a 2024 autopsy release where people understand what the biggest issues are just off the rip, then how can you handle some of the more serious issues that Democrats need to tackle going into 2028 when they actually have to define themselves against a Republican candidate or whoever that may be? This time they're not so sure.
One person told me today when I was asking what's the reaction across the Democratic Party to some of these stories, including ours, that broke the news about that $15 million loan putting up their DNC collateral and also about him throwing his -- throwing a phone in the direction of an aide. They said it would be surprising to me if he maintained his position by 2027, so January 2027. That, of course, is going to come down to what happens in the midterm elections.
TAPPER: Lulu, what do you think the Democratic National -- it's your job to -- let me put it this way. What has marked previous strong and successful chairs of parties that you think is lacking right now?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm going to say the thing you didn't want to ask me. It is not my job to tell the DNC what to not and to do and not do, but I am a political analyst and I would say he's toast. Why? Because his job is, as you say, to make money and to go on television, and he is not doing any of that. In fact, what is happening is he's being investigated by H.R.
So and the other thing I know as a journalist, and I have obviously not reported this out, I am not in your position, but I know that when people leak things to journalists, it's because they would like to see him go and they want this to be public so that they will be building pressure on him to perhaps step down and find somebody else.
Now, this is, as you say, late days. We are 99 days away from this election, so for the Democrats, it's not a great moment, but how can you make a case that Democrats should lead the country if you cannot even have someone in power of their own fiscal house? Like, it's a very difficult case to make. He's been a disaster.
TAPPER: I've known a lot of DNC chairs, and I just remember seeing Terry McAuliffe in like 1999 or 2000. I think he was the DNC chair at that point, right?
ELROD: Yes, he raised a lot of money, too.
TAPPER: He raised a ton of money.
ELROD: Yes, he was incredibly effective, Donna Brazile, I mean, the list goes on. Howard Dean raised a lot of money, but they understood that that's what you have to do in that job. You have got to raise money, and especially, Jake, with the new Supreme Court ruling. It has empowered the party can be even more.
WRIGHT: Which was not mentioned in the Substack.
ELROD: Which was not mentioned in the Substack.
TAPPER: Right, that they could raise even more.
WRIGHT: Yes, and that they can start, you know, contributing and, you know, kind of going along with the campaigns themselves, which, I mean, the individual Democratic campaigns are raising a lot of money.
[17:55:09]
ELROD: Of course. Yes.
TAPPER: Right.
WRIGHT: -- Jon Ossoff. But at the same time, Republicans are also raising a lot of money, and so is the RNC.
TAPPER: Ossoff has more than $50 million.
WRIGHT: Exactly.
TAPPER: I mean, so, and what's just crazy is that you -- there are so many rich Democrats who are so mad and fired up, and somehow they're --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And the DNC's job is actually to make sure that the people who are money and to give it to those candidates who might not be able to raise a lot of money themselves in vulnerable places or in places where you want to make inroads. I mean, that is literally their job, and so it isn't so helpful if John Ossoff's making a lot of money in Georgia. Their job is really to help people, perhaps, in Nebraska.
TAPPER: Adrienne Elrod and Jasmine Wright and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, great, great panel. Thanks all of you for being here.
Bryan Kohberger pleaded guilty to killing four Idaho students. Now he's trying to take back his guilty plea and stand trial. What are the odds that's going to happen? That's next.
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