Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Sources Say, White House Directly Involved In Blanche Order; Sources Say, Trump May Fire Pirro Over Reflecting Pool Case; HHS Secretary RFK Jr. Faces Backlash Over Vaccine, COVID Assertions; Nearly 65,000 People Evacuated In Spokane Wildfires; Ariana Grande To Step Back From Public Life After Tour. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired August 03, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, should we take Todd Blanche at his word that President Trump's so-called anti-weaponization fund is officially dead and will remain that way?
[18:00:08]
Critics say no, and that Blanche's latest declaration is smoke and mirrors to ensure that he's confirmed as attorney general and nothing else. Two of the best sourced White House reporters are here to break down what you need to know in just a moment.
Plus, tens of thousands evacuated tonight as wildfires burn across Washington State. Hundreds of homes already have been destroyed. It's a scene local officials describe as heartbreaking. And now there are reports of missing people as the flames spread out of control. We're going to get the latest on the search and the containment efforts ahead.
Also, the final hours of campaigning, one of the most important Senate primaries of the year. Will the progressive insurgent defeat the Democratic establishment candidate in Michigan? And if so, what does that mean for the party's hopes of taking back the House and the Senate in November? We're live on the campaign trail ahead.
And Jeanine Pirro spotted at the White House tonight as CNN learns President Trump is considering firing her as the U.S. attorney for D.C. Earlier today, Trump said in the Oval Office that U.S. Attorney Pirro choked when she dropped charges against the former Olympian who was charged with damaging the reflecting pool. One of the attorneys for that Olympian, David Hearn, will join us live in minutes.
The Lead tonight, we're going to start with breaking news in our Politics Lead. Despite President Trump playing coy earlier this afternoon, sources tell CNN that the White House was directly involved in acting Attorney General Todd Blanche's offer, or order rather, to formally rescind the so-called anti-weaponization fund. It's a key step for Blanche's Judiciary Committee confirmation vote set for tomorrow.
That order won over the two key Republican holdouts on the Judiciary Committee, Senator John Cornyn of Texas and Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina. Cornyn and Tillis say they got what they wanted, a, quote, legally enforceable document ending the existence of the fund, and limiting President Trump's sweetheart tax immunity deal with the IRS.
But here's the issue. Blanche's apparent assurances are riddled with loopholes. On the fund, Blanche rescinded a separate order that he wrote that actually created the fund under the terms of the settlement. The settlement itself, however, still exists, and the settlement could still be enforced. Cornyn knows this, too. Here he is last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): Todd Blanche can say that's it's a dead letter, but the fact of the matter is he conceded that there is a settlement agreement, which creates an enforceable contract. It could be revived at a later time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: A Republican lawyer who applied to serve on the board of the fund posted on X this, quote, can be undone after Tuesday. That's the day after Blanche's confirmation vote in the Judiciary Committee.
Then, of course, another part of this all is this IRS deal that led to the initial establishment of the fund. Remember, Trump sued his own administration. Now, Cornyn wanted to limit the agreement that offers Trump and his family -- members of his family immunity from tax investigations, and make it clear it only applies to past investigations against Trump and those listed in the suit. But Blanche's new order was more of a clarification rather than a modification, restating the Justice Department's interpretation of the order. Unlike the first document, Blanche didn't even bother to sign this one.
Joining us now, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, and former DOJ official Tom Dupree, and, of course, we have with us Maggie Haberman of The New York Times, co-author of the new book "Regime Change". Great to have all of you.
Kaitlan, let's start with you. Trump was asked if he personally signed off on rescinding this anti-weaponization fund. How did he respond, and what are we learning about the scope of the White House's involvement?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the president said he did not sign off on what it was that Todd Blanche had agreed to with these two Republican holdouts who were holding up his nomination, of course, before that vote that is scheduled for tomorrow.
Though he did praise Todd Blanche inside the Oval Office, and also praised this fund in and of itself, Jake, saying that it is very popular in some quarters, and that he views it as a positive thing that these people, people who were convicted of crimes on January 6th, could potentially get paid out by the federal government.
But obviously, Jake, the one thing that the White House wanted to get across the line here was Todd Blanche's confirmation as the next attorney general. And the president said this to reporters about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I didn't look at it. All I know is that Todd Blanche is great. He's going to do a great job. Everybody knows it. And I understand there's been a sign-off but I didn't -- I don't know what they agreed. I think Todd Blanche agreed to reconfirm things that he's already said, and what he said was okay.
No, there's no other avenues that I know about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: That answer there at the end, Jake, was when the president was asked if there are other ways that these payouts could potentially happen despite Blanche rescinding the fund.
[18:05:05]
He said he didn't know. Of course, critics have said today that doesn't mean that it won't actually happen.
But the White House was directly involved in what Todd Blanche signed off on. Obviously, he would not make an agreement with these Republican senators that did not have the White House's blessing, even if the president was unhappy about it and still believes that the fund should be able to move forward. But, really, the reason that the White House agreed to this, Jake, was because they wanted to be able to get Todd Blanche's confirmation across the line.
TAPPER: Maggie, remind us why President Trump wants Todd Blanche to be the attorney general so badly. He could have easily just left him as acting attorney general. And also while I have you, aren't there loopholes in all of this that you could drive a truck through?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's our understanding, Jake, and that's the reporting that my colleagues have this afternoon as to your last question about loopholes. You know, there are ways in which this fund could come back to life. There is also the separate question that you noted earlier at the top of the hour about the IRS exemption that the president, his sons, and their companies, which are an entanglement of a bunch of different LLCs, are expected to get in terms of back audits related to their taxes. And the leak of tax -- the president's tax returns during his own first term, he was far from the only person whose taxes were leaked, but I don't know of any other settlements and exemptions that are coming to people.
In terms of what our understanding is as to how he got here with Todd Blanche, when Jonathan Swan, my co-author of "Regime Change", and I were meeting with the president for a fact-checking interview in March of this year, Pam Bondi was still the attorney general. President Trump was clearly not happy with her. We already knew he had been criticizing her. But when we asked about his past private criticism of Todd Blanche, which was similar, for not moving faster on the prosecutions that he wanted to see against his perceived enemies, he was effusive in his praise of Todd Blanche.
Todd Blanche has been a loyal personal defender of the president, and it's very clear that the president expects that to continue. What that looks like going forward, we don't know, but we do know what Trump expects.
TAPPER: Tom, you worked at the Justice Department, so reality check for us. How easy or hard would it be for this fund to be reborn?
TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't think it would be terribly difficult for this fund to be reborn. I think the best way to look at this, Jake, is that this is more of a political guarantee that the fund won't come back into existence rather than a legal guarantee.
Todd Blanche, I think, was very careful and deliberate in the language he used, where he talked in the present tense. He said the fund is dead. That doesn't mean they couldn't try to resurrect it several weeks, several months later down the road, nor does it mean that they couldn't try to create a similar fund structured differently, but that they could legitimately claim that this is not that old anti- weaponization fund that everyone was upset about, but it's something completely different.
So, they could try to achieve what the president has made abundantly clear he wants to see happen, but just through a different mechanism.
TAPPER: And, Tom, the, the president still gets this, as Maggie just referenced, this massive benefit from the IRS deal, this personal immunity from past tax issues that could spare him $100 million tax penalty, according to The New York Times. I mean, is there anything stopping every future president in the -- you know, forever in the United States from getting the same great deal?
DUPREE: Well, let's see. I guess thing number one that could stop them would be the advice of his own Justice Department lawyers, who in some circumstances could say, this is not a good idea, either legally or politically. The other thing, Jake, that could stop them are the federal courts. Keep in mind that this current anti-weaponization fund is being challenged in several federal courts.
And to be sure, the guarantee that Todd Blanche gave last night might satisfy and assuage the concerns of Senators Cornyn and Tillis, but it's also going to have to satisfy the concerns of federal judges. Before they get rid of these challenges to the anti-weaponization fund, these judges are going to want to have binding legal assurance that this fund isn't coming back before they dismiss the case, and they are going to demand a high far higher standard of proof than Senators Cornyn and Tillis.
TAPPER: Maggie, let's look ahead to a possible scenario next year, a Democratic House majority and Attorney General Todd Blanche. That seems to me like a real recipe for confrontation. I mean, the Democrats would theoretically launch lots of investigations. And Blanche would, I think it's fair to say, probably not be inclined to cooperate.
HABERMAN: Yes, Jake. I think this is the, the major question mark hanging over what happens post-November if Democrats retake control of the House and possibly the Senate, as they seem poised to do in current polling. We don't know by what margin if that does happen. But we have seen, you know, Justice Departments either slow walk or not comply with Congressional subpoenas on very specific matters.
[18:10:00]
What we haven't seen before is an entire government or major aspects of the government or elements of the government that simply don't respond to these subpoenas. And Congress does have pretty limited recourse in what it can do. It can take a contempt of Congress vote against the attorney general. I guess I'm just not sure who adjudicates that in terms of an actual criminal complaint at that point or a criminal referral. This government, I think, just based on our reporting, is pretty willing and ready to drag things out, and as we have seen over time, that is President Trump's tactic repeatedly.
And I just want to add one note too, to Kaitlan's reporting earlier, that is also our reporting, that there was full awareness on the part of not just the White House, but of President Trump, about what the plans were to try to get Blanche over the line in terms of a compromise.
TAPPER: Kaitlan, one of the reasons this happened is because President Trump has not been friendly to Senators Tillis of North Carolina and John Cornyn of Texas. They are now going along with this agreement. Are they back in Trump's good graces or no?
COLLINS: I mean, obviously, this helps, the fact that they are not holding up Todd Blanche to where he had to pull his nomination as he was threatening to do last week. But, I mean, the president, part of, you know, the argument that was made to him here and that he believes, is that they did this only because he ensured that the two of them will not be in the U.S. Senate next year, with Tillis not running and with Cornyn obviously being primaried and the president supporting the challenger who beat him, Ken Paxton, in that race.
And so I think the notion that they are fine is just not the case here. But, I mean, obviously, going forward, they are happy that at least Todd Blanche is getting over the line.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, Maggie Haberman, Tom Dupree, thanks to all of you. And, of course, don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.
Is Jeanine Pirro about to get fired for admitting facts? What CNN is learning about a furious President Trump and how far he's willing to go in his insistence that the Reflecting Pool was vandalized and not actually just badly constructed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, you're looking at U.S. Attorney for D.C. Jeanine Pirro at the White House this afternoon, as sources tell CNN that President Trump is furious and considering firing her. Why? Well, Trump's fury comes after Pirro surprised Trump on Friday by dropping charges against several people whom Trump had claimed vandalized the Reflecting Pool.
Listen to the president earlier this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It looked beautiful, and then they cut it, and they vandalized. And we weren't necessarily thrilled with the contractor.
The judge was extremely unfriendly to Jeanine, and, frankly, I think she choked because the judge was really vicious. Instead of going after the people that did it, the judge went after her.
Really disappointed with Jeannine Pirro. She folded like an umbrella.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Joining us now is Josh Kolb. He's one of the attorneys representing the former Olympian, David Hearn, whose charges were just dropped.
And, Josh, President Trump says that Pirro choked. Is that what happened? What happened Friday?
JOSH KOLB, SENIOR COUNSEL, DEMOCRACY DEFENDERS FUND: No, what happened on Friday, and thanks for having me, Jake, is that Jeannine Pirro and the U.S. Attorney's Office of the District of Columbia admitted what, at what some point or another, they would have to admit, which was that there was no evidentiary basis to bring this baseless case against my client and our client, Mr. Hearn.
On the record now, before the court, in their motion to dismiss the indictment, is documentary evidence from the Department of Interior and now from the Department of Justice saying that, in all likelihood, the damage that happened at the Reflecting Pool was not because of vandalism and that they would not be able to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt.
The indictment should never have been brought in the first place. It was an egregious abuse of the criminal justice process, and this was the least that, not only the Department of Justice could do, but it was an inevitable step here.
TAPPER: In the filing, Pirro's office, the U.S. Attorney's Office for Washington, D.C., admits, quote, the damage was the result of a botched installation and not vandalism, as initially represented by the Department of the Interior, unquote. So, first of all, that's interesting that they're acknowledging the facts here. Second of all, it's interesting that Trump is mad at her for an office that manages the facts or that acknowledges the facts. But I guess what I don't understand is what President Trump would have wanted her to do. Would -- what would happen if she had just not accepted the facts as the Department of Interior put them?
KOLB: If they went to trial without facts to prove beyond a reasonable doubt a criminal case against a defendant, they would lose. And it would be a terribly embarrassing and damaging loss for the Department of Justice, a department that has already faced a series of embarrassing losses over the past year-plus.
It's important to note, Jake, that this was a rush job from the beginning. Even in the motion to dismiss itself, they acknowledge that there are obvious basic facts that were apparent to anyone watching CNN that saw all of the reporting about the likelihood that the construction work and the renovation work led to the damage at the pool. All of a sudden, the Department of Justice claims they learned about this weeks after Mr. Hearn was indicted.
I don't know what President Trump will say or why he says what he says, but the facts of the matter are clear and are now a matter of record before the court and before the public. And the Department of Justice and the United States government really owe Mr. Hearn an apology.
TAPPER: Have you decided whether you're going to file a lawsuit over this? Beyond just an apology, I guess that anti-weaponization fund doesn't exist anymore, at least as of this minute, but it does seem as though this was a prosecution that was questionable from the beginning.
[18:20:04]
KOLB: Well, we at Democracy Defenders Fund and our co-counsel, along with Mr. Hearn, are evaluating all our options to make sure that the people who did this and that these actions don't go without being held responsible. It is simply unacceptable what happened to an American like Mr. Hearn, an Olympian who represented his country. We're evaluating any and all options possible.
TAPPER: There are growing calls for an investigation into the contractors behind the Reflecting Pool. It was a no-bid contract, as you know. Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut is suggesting the contractors and government officials lied to a grand jury. Were there any irregularities with the grand jury proceedings?
KOLB: Well, Jake, in our case, we filed a motion to get the full grand jury minutes and the instructions that were given to the grand jury because we recognized and see what looked like serious misrepresentations or misconduct or something that went amiss before the grand jury in the case against Mr. Hearn. That is something that the government, we've had a back and forth with, but has not been resolved, is of deep concern to us. I can't speak specifically to Senator Blumenthal's allegations with respect to the contractor. But what is clear is that there's a tremendous amount of what looks like quite dirty corruption that's been going on around the Reflecting Pool, around the renovations in D.C., and that's been emanating out of the Trump White House.
And these types of situations, where you have botched jobs, incompetence, that then lead to baseless scapegoating of innocent Americans, like Mr. Hearn, is simply unacceptable, and we won't stand for it.
TAPPER: Josh Kolb, thank you so much. I appreciate your time, sir.
Coming up next, one of the top vaccine experts in the United States is here to respond to the latest medical misinformation push by RFK Jr. The facts that you need to know ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: You probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist, but genes don't cause --
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're not either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: In our Health Lead, that exchange was part of a contentious interview with Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is facing new scrutiny after making a number of claims about vaccines and autism and COVID-19 and other public health issues that were just false and have drawn pushback from scientists and medical experts.
Kennedy is a longtime vaccine critic who has not had facts on his side during much of his campaign against vaccines. He tried to defend his positions during the interview with Dana Bash on State of the Union as questions continue over his approach to federal health policy in the midst of a measles epidemic.
Joining us now is Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital Philadelphia. Thanks for joining us, Dr. Offit.
I want to play another clip from the interview. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: We have the highest death rate from COVID of any nation on Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The highest death rate of, from COVID of any nation on Earth. That's not true. That statement has been challenged by public health experts.
What is the accurate picture when it comes to the U.S. COVID death rate?
DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, we had a high death rate. I mean, we had 1.1 million people who died in this country, and of those who died, about 250,000 died because they chose willfully not to get a vaccine. And one of the reasons that they chose not to get a vaccine was because they were misinformed about its safety.
And one of the people who misinformed about its safety was Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, in 2021, appeared in front of the Louisiana State Legislature and said, the COVID vaccines are the most dangerous vaccines ever made. So, it's at least hypocritical that here's a man who did everything he could to discourage vaccination who then says that we had a high death rate.
TAPPER: Then there was this exchange about autism. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: You are wrong when you say that this issue has been studied.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He's claiming that the connection, any connection between vaccines and autism, that it's never been studied. Your thoughts?
OFFIT: This is like whack-a-mole with him. I mean, he first he says that the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, you know, causes autism. 24 studies showed that you were no more likely to get autism if you got that vaccine than if you didn't. Then he claimed that this preservative in vaccines caused autism, and he wrote a book about it called "Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak", where the science didn't get to speak at all because nine studies had shown that wasn't true.
We took this preservative out of vaccines in 2000 and the only thing that's happened in the last 25 years is the rate of autism has gone up. He claimed that, that aluminum adjuvants in vaccines caused autism. There was an excellent study out of Denmark that showed that clearly wasn't true, and he insisted that the journal that published that take it out.
He has this fixed, immutable belief that vaccines cause autism, and he's wrong again and again, and he never admits that he's wrong.
TAPPER: He did say during the interview that parents should get their children vaccinated against measles. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: Parents should get their children vaccinated for measles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That was after prompting by Dana Bash. But I'm wondering how significant you think that statement is given the fact that he has pushed so much just downright quackery about vaccines for 22 years.
OFFIT: We have a pretty low bar for our Secretary of Health and Human Services, don't we? I mean, here we have last year the biggest measles epidemic we've had in more than 30 years, and this year it's worse. We've had three people die last year of measles, and including two healthy little girls in West Texas who were unvaccinated and we hadn't had a child die from measles in more than 20 years.
[18:30:01]
And we're happy that here this man has said that people should get a measles vaccine.
Although remember, a week after that first child died from measles in West Texas, he went on Fox News, and in an interview with Sean Hannity said the following. He said, measles vaccine causes blindness, measles vaccine causes deafness, measles vaccine can kill children, measles vaccine causes the same symptoms as measles, and then he went on to say that natural measles was a good thing because natural measles prevents cancer and heart attacks and autoimmune disease. That's who he really is.
I'm sure it was really hard for him to say, get your child vaccinated for measles when he authored a book called "The Measles Book", which says exactly the opposite of that.
TAPPER: It is just insane. While I have you here, in addition to the measles epidemic, two people have now died in connection with the cyclosporiasis outbreak. How unusual is that, and what does that mean for this outbreak?
OFFIT: No, it is pretty unusual. We're getting up to 20,000 cases, and I think the American public has the right to know what's going on, exactly what contract -- contact tracing is being done. But we don't hear from our secretary of Health and Human Services about that, about the salmonella outbreak, about the Hantavirus outbreak, about people coming into this country with Ebola. You don't hear from him.
The only time he's had a press conference since he's been head, secretary of Health and Human Services, is when he got up with President Trump and Jay Bhattacharya and Marty Makary and Dr. Oz and said that Tylenol, you know, taken in the first trimester of pregnancy causes autism, which also isn't true.
Where is our secretary of Health and Human Services? We need one.
TAPPER: Dr. Paul Offit, thank you so much.
As fires burn across Washington State, new CNN video shows dozens of cars lined up as people wait to be let into their neighborhoods to see whether their homes are still standing. The latest on these devastating blazes next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
TAPPER: We're back with the Politics Lead. You know I love that election jam. Can we have it? Thank you. I appreciate it.
Tomorrow is primary day across five states, but the race that has Democrats divided truly is in Michigan, where progressive Abdul El- Sayed, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, will face off against the establishment- backed Congresswoman Haley Stevens for the U.S. Senate Democratic nomination.
CNN's Arlette Saenz is on the ground in Detroit, where Dr. El-Sayed is rallying. And, Arlette, does it feel like he has the momentum?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, Abdul El-Sayed and his team are not taking anything for granted. In fact, we are at his final event of the campaign here, which is not just a rally, but it's doubling as a canvas launch, as they're trying to ensure that they can get as many of their supporters out to the polls tomorrow.
But this is a battle within the Democratic Party that has played out over the past year in a contest that will ultimately offer a window into what the future of the Democratic Party might look like, especially in a battleground state here in Michigan.
This is a real test for the progressive movement, which has seen success in recent elections in more blue areas, like New York City or Denver. But now this is a very different test in a key battleground state, which has flipped between Democrats and Republicans in recent presidential elections.
On the progressive side, you have El-Sayed, who is a former state health official, running with the backing of Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And then there is the more moderate congresswoman, Haley Stevens, who has a lot of support from establishment Democrats. She has also had more than $50 million spent on this race from outside groups, something that El-Sayed and his supporters have criticized throughout this primary.
So, tomorrow will offer a window of where Michigan voters, Democratic voters, feel the party should be going at a time when there's a lot of debate about what it means to be electable in the Democratic Party.
Now, whoever wins this primary tomorrow will then face off against the expected Republican candidate, former Congressman Mike Rogers, in a contest that could very well determine the control of the Senate next year. Democrats would need to hold onto Michigan, plus flip four seats, and tomorrow they will have an answer about which candidate will be fighting that contest against the Republican in November.
TAPPER: All right. Arlette Saenz in Detroit, thank you so much.
My panel is here. Chuck, I know I don't need to tell you, Michigan is a must-win for Democrats if they want a chance at taking over the Senate. CNN's Jeff Zeleny talked with Dr. Abdul El-Sayed yesterday about what a win tomorrow means for the general election, giving all these hand-wringing by Democrats that he's too left-leaning to win in Michigan. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: How much of this is about convincing people that you can win in November?
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: The question of can I win in November is a question that voters alone can answer. Convincing folks like you and everybody who watches from everywhere else, I'm so sorry, it just doesn't matter.
Electability is a thing that's best defined after the fact. So, if and when I get elected, then you'll know I'm electable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: What do you think?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think he brings a lot of energy. There's no doubt that this is a change electorate right now. And sure, we don't, Democrats shouldn't be fighting each other when this is probably, to your point, one of the most important seats, this one, North Carolina and Maine are seats that we have to have if there's any chance of us taking back the Senate.
And I think that there's some things that folks have said out there who think he may be too left to get elected, but this is not a presidential election when Donald Trump's bringing a whole bunch of new people to the party. It's a midterm election where energy matters, and I think it matters in this election.
I'll remind, and we talked about this last night, is that Rogers ran two years ago and lost, and it was a presidential election. If we're expecting him to come back now and beat a Democrat, I think it's a heavy lift for them.
TAPPER: And, David, Mike Rogers has said he thinks he can beat either Democrat in November. He lost to Elissa Slotkin, a pretty moderate Democrat, in 2024 by just 0.3 percent. So, he lost but he, but it was very, very narrow. It has been suggested that he would rather vote against Dr. Abdul El-Sayed.
[18:40:00]
I don't know that to be true, but that is what has been reported.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Listen, Dr. Sayed, Abdul Sayed, used to be -- you know, sit here on this table with us on certain occasions. Very bright guy, I think he's a gifted political athlete. The problem is how he's campaigned and the people he's campaigned with, right? Kind of hard to distance yourself from Hasan Piker and some of the, the rhetoric that he's used to get where he is with popularity. You know, you run so far to the left, running back to the middle's going to be tough.
He's not -- you know, Slotkin won, as you point out, by 0.3 percent in a vote, about 5.2 million votes cast. She won by 18,000 votes. She won some of the counties that Trump carried. Dr. Sayed's not going to win those counties, right? So, where is he going to make up the vote? How is he going to overcome Mike Rogers, who's a pretty Steady Eddie in a state that's -- you know, Michigan is not -- you know, you're not running a New York City.
You have Detroit, you have Dearborn, great, there'll be big turnout. Chuck's point, you know, there's a lot of energy there. But are people, on the 25th anniversary of 9/11, you know, he he's going to have to really distance himself from a guy who said, and campaigned with that America deserved to be attacked on 9/11.
So, that's the conundrum he faces. He's got this communist label, this label of folks who are really far left, you know, anti-Zionist, anti- Semitic, and yet, you know, he's going to have to paint himself as a moderate in a state that, you know, Slotkin was a part of the Mod Squad. Remember that. Not the Squad, she differentiated herself.
TAPPER: Yes.
URBAN: She didn't want to be so far left.
TAPPER: We should also just note that, no offense to her, but Kamala Harris was a drag on Slotkin, and Slotkin had to run like 15 points ahead of her.
URBAN: But what I'm saying, but she -- but that's just a testament to how talented she was as a moderate.
TAPPER: Yes.
ROCHA: But the message that he's taking to folks is different, and his closing ad today was really unique. I make ads for a living, I'm not working for either one of these campaigns. But he had a closing ad today where he stood up and he's been really, really, really driving this home, which he said, money out of politics, money in your pocket. Medicare and healthcare for everybody, and no more of our money going overseas. That could've been Donald Trump's message in 2016. I don't think that's too far left.
TAPPER: So, there's some breaking news that I just want to bring into the panel. The bipartisan House Ethics Committee just announced that they found, quote, substantial reason to believe, unquote, that Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards of North Carolina violated House rules related to, quote, sexual harassment in hostile workplaces.
The House Ethics Committee report found Edwards acted inappropriately towards two female staffers with late-night personal texts and lavish gifts, including jewelry, designer purses, handguns, a KitchenAid mixer, a trip to New York City with a helicopter ride, a Broadway show. It goes on. The committee is recommending he be censured.
It's the first time an Ethics Committee recommended a member of its own party be censured since 2010, meaning that the chairman of the House Ethics Committee is a Republican. What do you make of it, David?
URBAN: Look I mean, there's clearly no place for this stuff, right? There's --
TAPPER: Yes.
URBAN: This is like story after story. Like I'm not -- like handguns, purses, shows, I mean, to staffers, it's inappropriate at any workplace, definitely should not be happening in the Congress where, you know, people are send -- these are elected representatives sent there on behalf of people to do the people's work, and the guy's living like some sort of bizarre sugar daddy life.
TAPPER: Yes.
URBAN: No, it's not cool and I'm glad he was censured.
ROCHA: And I think he should be more than censured, I think he should be kicked out of Congress. Democrat or Republican, I'd say the same thing for a Democrat.
TAPPER: So, Edwards said that these relationships were, quote, professional boss-subordinate relationships.
ROCHA: I've never had a boss like that.
TAPPER: And friendships. But there is one example that paints a different picture. This is from the report. Quote, in one instance, Edwards arranged for a birthday serenade at the woman's party and arranged for the singer to say it was from a special someone. Afterwards, the woman told her friend that she did not believe the congressman viewed her as just a daughter figure and that she was, quote, scared low-key.
These women served with Edwards since he was in the State Senate. I mean, I guess we all agree on this, but like how deluded do you have to be to think that women on your -- that dating these women is appropriate and that they actually are interested in your old, grim self?
ROCHA: I think when you go to Congress, you get so full of yourself. And I see it. I'm not saying anybody up there is doing inappropriate things, but I'm just saying that they get really full of themselves. And it's easy to say, this is unacceptable. Nobody should do this, but as we've lived through the Epstein stuff and all of the other things that come up, and you have done some great reporting, with Epstein survivors hearing of how uncomfortable you've been made felt, like it's pitiful.
TAPPER: It's really pitiful.
URBAN: Well, look, it's a power dynamic, right? Whether it's Bill Clinton, Monica Lewinsky, it's these members of Congress, it's Swalwell. Take your pick of who it is, right?
TAPPER: Yes. URBAN: There's this power dynamic and if it, for whatever reason it just continues to happen, and it's got to stop. We've got to -- it's got to stop. It's unacceptable and I'm glad that the Ethics Committee censured him.
TAPPER: Just back to one other quick thing with on the midterms. There is also this race in Wisconsin that I'm wondering what you think about, because the front runner in the Wisconsin gubernatorial primary's going to put the DSA to the test in a battleground state for the first time. Because Abdul Say- Al-Sayed is progressive.
[18:45:00]
He is not a member of the DSA, but Francesca Hong is a DSA candidate. She is the frontrunner, and she is facing three challengers who are all polling in the single digits. She is probably going to win the nomination.
One attendee at a standing room only campaign event for Hong told "Notus" today, quote, in a super, super purple state, I am worried she is not going to catch the people on the fence. Are you worried?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I will get worried some. Mandela Barnes just dropped out this week because of nobody can think they can beat her. Even if she tries to pivot to your point, in the last 90 days back to the middle, there is enough tape on her to where they will run attack ads after attack, and she still may win this thing. But I promise you, Democrats are going to have to spend money in Wisconsin. We should be spending in Texas.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She is going to -- that is going to be a tough race. My wife is from Wisconsin, spent a lot of time in Wisconsin. She is --
TAPPER: People forget, that is a battleground state.
URBAN: Yeah. I mean --
TAPPER: Trump won -- Trump won Wisconsin.
ROCHA: And I have made ads against Ron Johnson my entire life. And he keeps winning.
TAPPER: Yeah.
URBAN: I mean, if you watch some of her tape, like Chuck says, she is not -- she is -0 she is pretty far out there, pretty far.
TAPPER: We'll see. It's a change electorate, as Chuck says, we'll see how much change they want.
David Urban and Chuck Rcha, thank you to both of you. Always great having you.
We just saw U.S. attorney to D.C., Jeanine Pirro, leaving the White House after Trump slammed her for, quote, "folding like an umbrella," end quote, and dropping charges against people Trump says vandalized the reflecting pool against all evidence and fact. It is not clear what's in that box she's holding. She was in there for about an hour. We'll tell you what we know when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:04]
TAPPER: In the Pacific Northwest of the United States, devastating wildfires have forced nearly 65,000 people to evacuate their homes. In Spokane County, Washington, three major fires have destroyed more than 700 structures and burned more than 8,000 acres, with zero percent containment.
As of now, firefighters will get a brief break from the weather today, but hotter conditions are expected to return later this week.
Joining us now, former Washington State Governor Jay Inslee.
Governor, what is the biggest challenge that state and local leaders face right now when responding to a wildfire event of this magnitude?
JAY INSLEE (D), FORMER WASHINGTON STATE GOVERNOR: Well, there is -- we want to thank these firefighters. They have been intrepid and courageous, but there is a reality that we have to face. And that is because our grasslands and forests have become so dry and so hot as a result of the climate changing, that these fires are not -- there is no human agency that can really contain them.
This is a reality that we have to face. So, the number one thing to do, obviously, is to preserve human life and to get people out of the way of the flames, which are driven of 30, 40, 50 mile an hour winds, that there is no agency, there is no plane, there is no machine, there is no courage that can that can solve this.
The problem is we have to stop the climate change that is causing our grasslands and forests to become absolutely tinderboxes.
TAPPER: You have longed warned, long warned about the connection between climate change and more extreme weather. And sadly, the predictions that were being made 15, 20, 25 years ago that the, you know, the plutonium and -- not the plutonium, the oil and gas industry were lying about and pooh-poohing, they are coming true.
Is what going on in Spokane right now an example of what you and others have been warning about?
INSLEE: Unfortunately, that is the case. This is not a surprise to anyone who has followed this situation. When you have such extreme aridity and extreme winds over a prolonged period, you are going to get these fires. And this is a worldwide phenomenon. Obviously, France and Spain are burning down. California got theirs a year or two ago. Hawaii has been involved.
This is a worldwide phenomenon. It needs a response. But unfortunately, we have and this is really maddening at the moment. Our friends are standing in the ashes of their houses. A president who is refusing to give aid in multiple occasions to fires. We have already had is in the tank with the oil and gas industry that is driving up our prices and is not lifting a finger, in fact, trying to stop us from getting access to cheaper energy, which is solar, wind and batteries driving up our costs.
So, our houses are burning down. The guy is helping these massive obscene profits of the oil and gas industry, and we are left out here to dry. And now, he is trying to pedal back. But I got to tell you, there is a lot of angry out people out here in the state of Washington and nationwide.
TAPPER: On the on the matter of the oil and gas industry, on the oil market, specifically in the wake of the war with Iran, Exxon and Chevron have reported stronger than expected earnings following the recent volatility in the oil markets because of the war in Iran.
What do these results tell you about the state of the global energy market and what, if anything, consumers should expect when it comes to gas prices?
INSLEE: Well, what we can expect that if we have a president who starts illegal, unconstitutional wars, that anyone with half a brain would understand was going to threaten our oil supplies. And anyone with half a brain would know it was going to result in higher gas prices. To not have a recklessly, callously indifferent president who does not care about these higher gas prices. In fact, and this is quite incredible when this started, he says, high gas prices are fine with me. We quote, we make more money.
That means the oil and gas companies, who are the people who had the mugging of Mar-a-Lago when they offered him $1 billion, if he would just do their bidding to prevent Americans from getting access to cleaner energy. And that's what's going on right now.
So, this is the war. This is a corrupt bargain between the president and the oil and gas industry. And it is a disaster in the making where he will not help people get access to clean energy. And on top of that, the oil and gas companies trying to get immunity so they do not, are not held accountable for this pollution.
No, no, we need a better America.
TAPPER: Former Democratic Governor Jay Inslee of Washington State -- thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, the new fallout over the failed plan to run the World Cup with a group of private investors, a group that could have included Jared Kushner's brother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:58:56]
TAPPER: Our last lead starting our political and our politics lead. Earlier today, President Trump signed an executive order establishing something called a military spouse commission. The commission will provide the president with annual recommendations on policies that directly affect military families. The chair of the commission will be Pete Hegseth's wife, Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense.
In our sports lead, European soccer's governing body known as UEFA, is threatening FIFA with legal action over the now failed plan to run the World Cup with a group of private investors led by Joshua Kushner, the brother of Jared Kushner. Last week, UEFA led the backlash against FIFA's plan and declared a loss of confidence in FIFA president Gianni Infantino. Early Saturday, Infantino dropped the investment proposal.
In our pop culture lead, Ariana Grande announced that she is going to be taking a step back from public life when her Eternal Sunshine tour wraps next month. This comes as the singer and actress has faced concerns over her health and drastic weight loss, seen in her latest appearances. Her representative said in a statement that she looks forward to ending her tour on a high note, both healthily and happily, after facing endless ongoing public scrutiny.
Do you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD? You can watch a show on the CNN app.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
