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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Major Changes to Childhood Vaccines; Democrat Calls Out Rise of Anti-Semitism in Party; Do You Want an A.I. Data Center Near Your Home; Democratic PAC Targets Mike Rogers Over Past War Comments; Rep. Ocasio-Cortez Dismisses Francesca Hong's Past Comments: "Woke One Was Crazy". Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 10, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, President Trump signs a sweeping executive order aimed at massively changing how children get vaccines. The president insisting that children should get fewer shots over a longer period of time, despite very little scientific evidence supporting those changes.

[18:00:09]

We're going to get reaction from a top vaccine expert and a former director of the CDC in moments.

Plus, one of Michigan's top Democrats announced that she's going to skip her party's nominating convention, citing the rise of anti- Semitism in her party and not feeling safe there. What she thinks is the failure of leadership to stop it. That Democrat, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, joins us live to explain why.

Also, a recent poll shows that most Americans do not want A.I. data centers to be built near where they live, but these data centers are still popping up all over the country. The Kentucky governor, Andy Beshear, is here to share his concerns and the restrictions he's putting in place as the A.I. industry grows.

And as The Odyssey breaks box office records, we're going to be joined by someone who played a key role, although you've likely never heard her name, Devyn Dalton, drawing praise for her work as Matt Damon's stunt double in one particular exciting scene. She joins us live ahead.

The Lead tonight, the Trump administration's push to significantly alter the nation's childhood vaccine schedule, President Trump signed an executive order today calling for fewer recommended vaccinations for young children. In announcing this move, which upends decades of proven science, President Trump made wild claims, false claims, about childhood immunizations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Decades ago, children received only a small fraction of the vaccines required today. In those times, people were much healthier and, of course, the high rates of autism now observed did not exist. So, there's a reason for such epidemic rates of autism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We should note, extensive scientific research by actual experts has found no evidence of a link between vaccines and autism.

The executive order also moves to split the combined measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, or MMR vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So, the MMR, we want to have separate visits, separate times.

I saw this early on, and I've seen proof of it, where they have a vaccination that looks like the size of a bottle of soda poured into a little child's body, and bad things happen in many -- in too many cases, because this is an explosion. This is an epidemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Separating the MMR vaccine is a change President Trump has long sought, not because the combined shot isn't safe and effective, not because medical experts and scientists think it's something that should happen. It's because President Trump feels this change should happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The MMR, I think, should be taken separately. This is based on what I feel. The mumps, measles and -- or the three should be taken separately. And it seems to be that when you mix them, there could be a problem. So, there's no downside in taking them separately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: If you missed that, that's the president saying that this change to childhood vaccines is happening, quote, based on what I feel, unquote.

Medical experts say the combined MMR vaccine is safe. They warn that separating the shots could leave children vulnerable to dangerous diseases between doses. According to the nonprofit Our World in Data, the measles component of the MMR vaccine alone has saved an estimated 94 million lives worldwide over the past 50 years. The CDC says about 93 percent of current measles cases in the U.S. are among people who are unvaccinated or whose vaccination status is unknown.

Let's discuss with people who have their judgments based on science and medicine and not feelings. We have with us Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director of the CDC. We also have with us Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at the great Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Besser, to you first. What's your reaction to these major changes to the childhood vaccine schedule, including how many immunizations are recommended for a child's earliest years? DR. RICHARD BESSER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: You know, Jake, I think the idea that the president of the United States would make these changes based on what he feels, flying in the face of decades of science, it's absolutely unbelievable. I haven't seen anything like this in my career.

I practiced pediatrics for over 30 years, and would always count on the recommendations that came from the expert committee that advised the CDC to ensure that what I was doing was safe, was effective, and I could go forward to my patients with confidence and make a recommendation.

[18:05:02]

What the president has done here is he's making another attempt to put forward a vaccine schedule that's based on the secretary of health's wild ideas about what should be, and it leaves our children really vulnerable. And there are a lot of children who are going to hear what the president, a lot of parents who are going to hear what the president's saying, and they're going to be confused, they're going to be afraid, and, unfortunately, they're going to make some wrong decisions about the health of their children.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit in addition to Donald Trump not knowing much about science or medicine, and RFK Jr., the health secretary, not knowing much about science or medicine, and in fact, thinking that he's right about a lot of things that he's flat wrong on, Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff, had something to say about this during the announcement. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: If you give a kid shot after shot, you're going to have vaccine injuries. You're going to have immunological issues. You're going to have potentially neurological issues.

Why do you need to have these shots bundled into these packages? Why can't you split it into five visits and give this young body, if a parent wants to do a vaccine, one shot at a time?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Can you answer his question?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER DIRECTOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: So, based on what? I mean, we have looked at these questions and they've come up again and again. Do -- the fear, I think, that people like Stephen Miller or Donald Trump or Robert F. Kennedy Jr., is that children are just getting too many vaccines too soon, and that somehow is weakening or overwhelming or altering the immune system.

But of interest, it's really not the number of vaccines that matters. What matters is the number of sort of immunological challenges in vaccines. I mean, so, for example, 100 years ago, we got one vaccine, which was the smallpox vaccine. That was a greater immunological challenge to your immune system than the 18 different vaccines that we get today because of advances in protein chemistry, protein purification, recombinant DNA technology.

When Donald Trump was born in 1946, he got two vaccines, the diphtheria tetanus pertussis vaccine and the smallpox vaccine. That was a greater immunological challenge than his son, Barron, got when he was a child.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit do most of your colleagues who are pediatricians follow the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania's vaccination guidance, or do they look at federal guidance and is that changing at all?

OFFIT: Well, so they look to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Most pediatricians look there and to their advisory body, which is the Committee of Infectious Diseases, which has stood up for children and has a science-based recommendation, unlike that's made by people like Stephen Miller or Donald Trump or Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

It's hard to watch. Also, the Coke bottle, where does that come from? A dose of vaccine is roughly one-tenth of a teaspoon, one-tenth of a teaspoon. So, a multi-dose vial would be one teaspoon. Where is he getting this Coke bottle stuff?

TAPPER: He makes up a lot of stuff. I'm sure you know that.

Dr. Besser, there have been extensive scientific studies of vaccines. No evidence of any provable connection to autism, yet both Trump and RFK Jr. continue to say that there is a link. Take a listen to the health secretary earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMA SERVICES SECRETARY: So, something happened in the mid-'90s that changed our children, and it has to be an environmental exposure, because genes don't cause epidemics. It can provide a vulnerability. But you need an environmental toxin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, first, RFK Jr. said that it was thimerosal which was an additive to vaccines, Dr. Besser, and out of an abundance of caution, that was removed, and now he's saying it's the vaccine. He keeps just adjusting his claim, and it's not based on science. What's your reaction, Dr. Besser?

BESSER: Well, my reaction is that the secretary, by continuing to go down this path, is deflecting dollars that could be spent to ensure that the children who are autistic can lead their fullest lives. You know, this is a distraction, and it is an expensive distraction, and it's a distraction that is instilling fear.

You know, the questions that he's raised about vaccine schedule, about timing, about the number, have all been addressed by science. But, you know, the fact that we've gone down this road, it started with a physician who's been totally discredited, who raised up these claims a long time ago. They were addressed, they were studied, and they haven't been found to be the case. There's a lot of exciting work that has gone on to try and look at the various causes of autism and a lot of work, more work that needs to be done to ensure that the children who are autistic can fully participate in society.

TAPPER: Do you think it's likely, Dr. Besser, that this is going to -- this decision is going to result in lives being lost?

[18:10:02]

BESSER: You know, I think that there are quite a number of people who are going to hear this, and they're going to be confused, and they're going to delay. And one of the things that I found to be miraculous as a pediatrician was every time a new vaccine was developed and was found to be safe and effective, that meant that there were children who I was not going to see with these diseases anymore. In my office, in the hospital, I was not going to have to talk to parents who were losing a child. And this instills fear where there shouldn't be fear.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit, what do you think?

OFFIT: I think it will. I think RFK Jr.'s goal is to induce chaos and confusion in the system, ultimately to make vaccines less available, less affordable, more feared. That's his goal. He's an anti-vaccine activist and science nihilist for 20 years, and even though he's taken over as secretary of Health and Human Services, he's that same person. And I think that's right. I mean, we had, you know, two healthy little girls die of measles last year and in the worst measles outbreak we've seen in more than 30 years.

And now in the midst of all that, he steps in, does Donald Trump and RFK Jr. and says, separate the measles vaccine into its three component parts, which will not make it safer, not make it more effective, and only mean that you'll be getting six shots instead of two. So, all it does is put children at risk for no advantage.

TAPPER: Dr. Besser, Dr. Offit, thank you to both of you.

To build A.I. data centers or not to build A.I. data centers, that's the question worth trillions in the United States as developers, politicians, and locals clash over the pros and cons. We're going to talk to a governor in the thick of the debate next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Tech Lead, coming to an American city near you, A.I. data centers. Well, it turns out that's not entirely true because there are many obstacles preventing construction of those A.I. data centers in the first place. Shortages of materials, labor, electrical plants, and then there is growing public opposition.

A recent Gallup poll shows seven in ten Americans do not want A.I. data centers to be built near where they live. And now several counties and states have proposed or passed laws to ban them altogether. Kentucky is the latest state, or commonwealth, I should say, to address data centers.

Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky joins us now. Governor Beshear, so last week, you signed an executive order requiring A.I. data center companies to do the following if they want to do business in Kentucky, one, ensure there's no detrimental impact on residential ratepayers or the environment, two, pay its fair share of local and school taxes, three, build a meaningful relationship with the community.

These are all obligations on the developers. How are local governments supposed to navigate this?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Well, I believe whether or not to accept a data center is a very local decision. So, for seven out of ten counties, they might pass a moratorium, but there might be three other counties that 200 jobs could be a game changer, and the revenue from property taxes could double the school system's budget.

So, I don't believe it's my job to say yes or no to any individual data center, but I can put some requirements in place to make sure that any conversation with a locality starts in a place that will protect the people that call it home.

So, the first thing is we are not going to approve any data center that will raise utility bills by one penny. We're not going to approve a data center that takes up too much water or pollutes that water or the air. We're not going to say yes to a data center that tries to get out of taxes and do a sweetheart deal.

In the end, these are multi-billion dollar developments, probably worth 100 times more than the company's headquarters. They need to actually be in with transparency, talking to these communities. And if they want to build a data center, talking about the type of meaningful relationship that they'll have. We've seen that in a couple, but we see a lot of companies falling short.

TAPPER: I mean, transparency is an interesting word there because when I think about tech and big tech, transparency is not a word that comes to mind. They lie, they conceal. I mean, I think if we could all go back in time and as a nation decide whether or not we want Facebook, Twitter, et cetera, et cetera, we would -- we still don't have all the information about the algorithms and how they're affecting our kids. How do you require transparency from A.I. data centers?

BESHEAR: Well, remember, this isn't just about where they're located and where they get through zoning. What I tell these companies is, you can build it, but folks can burn it down. And I don't mean that in the real way of any type of violence, but if you are not a good community partner, if you go back on your word, if you are hiding things, it's not just building these, it's actually operating them.

And so what these companies need to do is be clear about the size, the power they'll need, how they're getting it, how they're funding it the new technology that hopefully improves how they treat the local water. They need to commit to what they're going to pay in taxes every single year so a school system or a county can talk about how to potentially use that.

And they need to talk about how long they'll be in the community, how many jobs there are, and what they'll pay. If they're not willing to do those, don't come, and a community shouldn't accept them.

TAPPER: According to the Kentucky Center for Statistics, over the last year, unemployment rates rose in 116 of the commonwealth's 120 counties. Are you confident that these data centers in Kentucky, if counties approve of them, will create enough reliable jobs that will last for years?

BESHEAR: Well, they won't create enough reliable jobs. For the counties that are interested, they could be a part of those jobs. You know, what we're seeing is a record number of jobs created in Kentucky, but we're also seeing more people join the workforce. That overall is a good thing, even though it impacts those unemployment numbers.

[18:20:03]

Now, my job has to be, whilst setting the right guidelines for data centers, to go out there and to continue to reshore American manufacturing so that we can make what we need in this country. Whether that's G.E. Appliances finally growing close to what it was 30 years ago, announcing $3 billion of investment all over the United States from Louisville, Kentucky, whether it's Ford continuing to invest not just in the Louisville truck plant but also finding a future for Blue Oval, which Donald Trump did his best to fire 1,600 of my folks that were going to make E.V. batteries.

My job isn't to say that data centers are the economic development strategy. They're not, and they never should be. But to try to create the right rules of the game, of the road for data centers while getting out there and hustling for those higher job opportunities.

TAPPER: While I have you, it's been four days since the office of Republican Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said in a statement that he would continue recovering at home after being hospitalized for more than seven weeks. We haven't even heard his voice or seen video of him. Have you heard from Senator McConnell at all?

BESHEAR: I haven't, and it's unacceptable not that I haven't heard from him, but the people of Kentucky haven't heard from him. This is why people think that the Senate or Congress is broken. Mitch McConnell's been there so long, he doesn't think he works for the people of Kentucky, that he can be gone for eight weeks from his job and not call in to one news station, even a friendly one, not do one video. You know, even for people that are concerned about him, he doesn't care about them enough to say, this is what's happened. This is my timetable for returning. And, folks, I'm okay.

Does it raise questions on whether he has the capacity? Yes. And what is John Thune, Majority Leader of the Senate, doing? Nothing, absolutely nothing, nothing to determine the capacity of a member. In fact, he says whether someone has capacity to serve in the U.S. Senate is a question between the senator and his people. Well, guess what, John Thune? He's not talking to his people. This is just asking people to do their basic job, which all your viewers have to do every day.

TAPPER: Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, thanks so much. Good to see you.

Coming up, a politician is skipping her state's big political convention because she says she won't feel safe there. She's worried about extremists in her own party. We're going to talk to her about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel has announced she's going to skip her state's Democratic Party's nominating convention on August 21st. Her reasoning? Well, the rise of anti-Semitism on the political left and the Democratic Party's leadership and its failure to address it.

In her announcement, she added she would not feel safe at the event. She cited past instances of harassment that have gone unchecked.

And Attorney General Dana Nessel joins me now. Thanks for joining us, General Nessel.

So, you've criticized party leadership for not responding to your concerns about this in the past. Who specifically would you like to stand up more about this?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, first and foremost, the, the party chair should be demanding that we enforce a code of conduct and we have certain levels of decorum. You know, like party events sometimes have been boisterous, but, lately, they have turned frankly scary and venomous.

And, you know, there's a lot of videotape footage from what happened at our last convention, the endorsement convention that took place in April. And, unfortunately, you know, there's no consequences for anybody irrespective of how you behave.

And, you know, these should be inclusive events. We're past the primaries now. This should be about bringing everybody in the party together, not driving people away. And, you know, of those who are welcome to this event are five Michigan Democratic Party members who have been charged federally with having made threats and having harassed and vandalized the homes of some members of our party, Democratic elected, and, you know, Jewish centers as well.

So, you know, it's been a little bit scary, and I think we really need to make sure that everybody feels welcome at these events, and they're not turned off because they think that people are going to be screaming at them, shouting at them and chasing after them at the convention hall. TAPPER: So, a few days ago, my colleague, Kaitlan Collins, asked Democratic Senate nominee Abdul El-Sayed about this issue and the concerns you've raised. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I happen to remember the nominating convention in 2018 when then-Attorney General Nominee Dana Nessel asked me to read her nomination officially into the books. So, she felt perfectly safe with us there.

I think it's important that all of us feel safe, and Jewish safety to me is a priority, just like the safety of my own daughters. But I do think it's important for us to differentiate between safety and between our different political positions about the interests of a foreign government. And I do think that it's unfortunate when people mix those issues.

I think there is a challenge when folks try to use the specter of anti-Semitism to extend it toward protecting a foreign government against criticism, and I think that's the place that the attorney general and I might disagree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your response to that?

NESSEL: Well, I think it's unfortunate. You know, I started the first hate crimes and domestic terrorism unit ever at a state A.G.'s office, and we prosecute people who threaten the lives of elected officials.

And we don't ask them what their beliefs are or what their political makeup is. Threatening people is wrong. Harassing people is wrong. And terrorizing people is wrong.

[18:30:01]

And when we can, we investigate and we prosecute those cases. To say that basically like perhaps I, you know, deserve to be threatened simply because of my political beliefs, I think is a real missed opportunity for Abdul to bring the party together.

And I hope that's what we're going to be able to do, but a lot of it involves, you know, reaching out to those who supported his opponent, Haley Stevens, in the primary and saying, hey, here's why you ought to support me.

And, honestly, you know, we have to flip the Senate. There's no question we need a Democratic Senate. You know, Mike Rogers who's his opponent, first of all, horrifically Islamophobic, this campaign already. So, you know, we should all be fighting back against that for certain.

But we know that Mike Rogers is simply going to be a rubber stamp for the most corrupt administration in American history. We know that there are Supreme Court seats that might be up. We know that while Abdul stands for Medicare for all, I don't even know that Mike Rogers supports Medicare for anyone.

So, I mean, there are really important components that, you know, create an environment that we have to make sure that we have unity in our party. But the way to do that is to make everyone feel safe and everyone feel welcome.

TAPPER: Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

NESSEL: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sharing on social media that she's freezing her eggs, and she's starting a larger conversation about the cost of and access to fertility care. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, otherwise known as AOC, is freezing her eggs and sharing the experience online. She acknowledged her vulnerability might come with a cost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I am also aware that there is very strangely a political, quote/unquote, risk or even a political tax that could come with sharing this information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In that Instagram live, she said she'd have to do her next shot before her Sunday interview on ABC, and it was there that she was asked if she's running for president in 2028.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I'm focused on winning the midterms. I'm running for Congress right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the possibility for --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I haven't -- well, I haven't ruled out the possibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now, Dr. Veronica Gillespie-Bell. She's an OB-GYN. Doc, thanks for joining us.

Explain to our viewers the difference between freezing eggs, freezing embryos, and the full IVF process, and why somebody might choose one over the other.

DR. VERONICA GILLESPIE-BELL, BOARD-CERTIFIED OB-GYN: Yes, so the -- Thank you for having me. So, when we freeze eggs, we're giving women medications to help their eggs mature. We're retrieving those eggs, and we're freezing them so that they have the option for fertility later in life. When we're talking about embryos and embryo transfer, that's when we actually fertilize the egg with the sperm, create the embryo, and we're putting that embryo back. For egg freezing, it is super important that women know that this is an option.

For women, we are born with all of the eggs that we will ever have, and we start to decrease the quality and the number of eggs in our mid-30s. And when that happens, that really prohibits our ability to have fertility later in life. So, when we freeze our eggs, we have them preserved so whenever we decide to bear children many women are waiting to bear children because they are developing their careers, or they just haven't found the right person or whatever the reason may be. And so when we freeze those eggs, it gives us the option for having fertility later in life.

TAPPER: Is it -- between freezing eggs and freezing embryos, is one more likely to result in a child than another?

GILLESPIE-BELL: So, embryo are more likely to result in a child although in both situations there's no guarantee. But, again, with egg freezing, we have those eggs frozen usually for women that are waiting to bear children later in life, and so waiting for that time of meeting the right person or just waiting because they're developing their career.

TAPPER: So, AOC is I believe 36. Age always seems to factor into these conversations. We've heard the term geriatric pregnancy, which describes women 35 and older. That's not my term. I want to make sure everybody knows. That's people use it in the medical community. Now, it's referred to as advanced maternal age. How do you counsel patients approaching that age who want kids? Is there a time when frozen embryos or frozen eggs doesn't matter anymore because you're just too old to have the child?

GILLESPIE-BELL: So, first of all, any patient that comes in my office and they're in that 30-year-old age, I ask them, when are you planning on having children? If they tell me it's not within a year or so, then we talk about egg freezing so that they do have that opportunity to have children later in life.

I think it's important to know that as women get older, if they have eggs frozen, that pregnancy will really be at the age of whenever those eggs were frozen. For example, if a patient is 47, 48 years old, and they froze their eggs in their mid-30s, then it will be, quote/unquote, like a 30-year-old pregnancy.

Of course, as we get older, we have to worry about complications of pregnancy, co-morbidities, meaning having medical conditions, like chronic hypertension, diabetes. Those things do increase with age, but with proper management, there is no reason that women that are over 35 cannot have a safe pregnancy.

TAPPER: Dr. Veronica Gillespie-Bell, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. GILLESPIE-BILL: Thank you.

TAPPER: The deadline has passed for Ohio Republican Congressman Max Miller to get out of the race.

[18:40:00]

So, what does that mean for the midterm map? Our panel will weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, despite increasing calls from Republicans to step aside, Ohio Republican Congressman Max Miller is not going anywhere. He's going to remain on the ballot after that key deadline passed over the weekend. Miller is facing serious abuse allegations from his wife. And also his wife alleges that he may have emotionally and physically abused her daughter, ex-wife, we should say. The congressman denies all of it.

Here's Republican Senator Jim Banks of Indiana yesterday on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JIM BANKS (R-IN): The allegations against him are terrible, and he's endangering a seat in Congress as we're trying to keep the majority in the House, and he should he should drop out if he's endangering that seat. He should drop out because of the allegations against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's jump in with the panel. Ramesh, thanks for joining us. Miller could still withdraw from the race, but Republicans would be left without a nominee now that the deadline to replace him has passed. What do you think he should do?

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: Well, I think that he should resign, obviously. But, you know, this is somebody who is obviously very used to putting himself in before the interests of everybody else.

[18:45:03]

He's already done it with his family. Of course, he's going to do it with the Republican Party.

TAPPER: Yes. Ameshia, Miller is set to face Democrat Brian Poindexter in the general election. We should keep in mind this is a generally considered reliable Republican seat. But, you know, it's a midterm election and people don't like what's going on with Miller.

Here is what Poindexter has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN POINDEXTER (D), OHIO CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I didn't get into this race because Max Miller's personal life is in shambles. I got into this race because working families' lives are turned upside down by the policies that this administration and Max Miller have supported.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Trump won by 11 points. Does Poindexter actually have a chance here, do you think?

AMESHIA CROSS, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I think he does, at least to be competitive. If these Max Miller allegations had not come out, if there weren't multitudes of women and people who had them over the course of time, we'd be in a different place. And he's been in calcitrant. Somebody who has said, even on your show, he has compared himself and his -- what he feels is a persecution to that of Donald Trump. One of the things that Donald Trump never had was a double digit drop.

What we're seeing here is something entirely different, and I do think that it makes the Democrat who normally probably wouldn't stand a chance in an area like that, someone who is more competitive.

TAPPER: Go ahead.

PONNURU: It adds to the echoes of the 2006 election. You've got an unpopular war back then, Iraq, now Iran. You've got an unpopular president, George W. Bush. Now Donald Trump, and you've got an issue environment that's very anti-Republican. Add to the mix all of these stories of corruption and personal scandal involving congressmen. And back then, the house flipped. It's looking like it's going to be that way again.

TAPPER: Yeah, Mark Foley was one of them.

PONNURU: That's right.

TAPPER: There was a bunch.

PONNURU: There were.

TAPPER: Ameshia, let's turn to some of the big Senate races. The Senate Majority PAC, a Democrat aligned group, is out with this ad attacking Republican senate nominee in Michigan, Mike Rogers. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Introducing endless war from Mike Rogers.

MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Boy, it's really hard when you have to justify every minute of the war I think for the president.

Side effects may include death, economic hardship and global instability. Some patients have reported fuel shortages, which may cause inflation. Endless war has not been proven to make Americans any safer. ANNOUNCER: Ask your doctor if endless war is right for you

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Kind of a whack at the fact that Mike Rogers is a little older than Abdul El-Sayed as well. Do you think that's an effective ad?

CROSS: I think it is. I think it's an effective ad coupled with what we've seen come out from the El-Sayed campaign, the campaign with his grandparents, that ad. The ad with, you know, the with the ball song in the background. There's a lot of "there" there.

That ad in particular points to the very things that his voters and I would argue, voters across the country are very upset with when it comes to this war and the billions of dollars, the multi-billions that they've seen spent on it, still, with no real reason for us to be there, and also many people questioning when we're going to get out. In addition to facing a backdrop of, you know, health care lapses with the changes that we've seen from the Big, Beautiful Bill Act, with housing prices increasing, with not being able to afford food for their kids housing issues. I think that it can be very effective.

TAPPER: So there's also this big race in Wisconsin for governor and the likely Democratic nominee. We'll find out tomorrow. Seems to be a woman named Francesca Hong.

AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the congresswoman from New York, was on ABC and was asked about the fact that Francesca Hong had a number of, shall we say, woke statements on her social media from years past.

Here was AOC's response. It was kind of interesting. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): My understanding is that -- is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate .

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS HOST: She's moved away from a lot of that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right. She's moved away from it. And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Woke one was crazy. I'm sure you would agree with that.

But what do you make of this kind of acknowledgment by AOC there, very leading voice of the progressive movement that some of the stuff that was said in the 2018 to 2024, 2024 area was a little out there.

PONNURU: Well, she was pretty woke herself during that period. And that construction that woke was pretty crazy makes it sound like wokism was just something that that sort of washed over us when there were actually identifiable people, including her, who sort of perpetrated it and inflicted it on institutions and the country. Look, it's fine to change your mind. I do think you owe people an

account of why you changed your mind when you changed your mind. Hong hasn't done that. And in this clip, neither did AOC.

CROSS: I don't think that she needed to. The fact of the matter is, when the push for defund the police, that narrative was running. It was also being accepted by a lot of people because they literally just saw a man die on live television at the hands of the police. This was a conversation about George Floyd. This is what kicked it off. This is what kicked off all the BLM protests.

At the time, it made sense to a lot of people, specifically in the activist movement, who were very frustrated at police brutality. They kept seeing over and over and over again, and so many Black people becoming hashtags across social media.

[18:50:00]

But no change actually happening.

It drove a lot of the license to actually ensure that there were body cams to ensure that there were policies put in place to avoid some of this or mitigate some of this.

With that being said, I do think that over time, people in their movement shift towards what matters today, 2020 was six years ago.

TAPPER: Yeah.

CROSS: At this point, people are crying out about their cost of living. They're crying out about affordability. Police brutality, though it is still important and still happening across multiple areas in the country. That is not the top line item because we're not seeing across our screens every day live footage of a police officer killing a man.

PONNURU: You know, 2020 was six years ago. The 2020 election was six years ago. President Trump's denial of what happened is still a live issue in our politics and should be. I don't think we should consign this to the ancient past, and I don't think there are any circumstances in which being a prison abolitionist or being a defender of the police is a good reflection on somebody's judgment.

TAPPER: Ameshia Cross and Ramesh Ponnuru, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, we're going to talk with the stunt performer who doubled for Matt Damon in the box office smash "The Odyssey". Damon called her arms the greatest he's ever seen. You heard me right. Her arms.

Stick with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:18] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT DAMON, ACTOR: So, my double was a woman, a female stunt performer who had the greatest arms I've ever seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead, that's Matt Damon on Josh Horowitz's show "Happy, Sad, Confused," giving credit to his stunt double for her heroic lift in Christopher Nolan's new blockbuster "The Odyssey".

Nolan is known for his approach to cinematic realism, and he cast the four-foot-six stunt woman in a scene where Damon fights seven-foot man-eating giants.

And we're pleased to welcome Devyn Dalton to THE LEAD.

Devyn, congratulations.

So, I reached out to Matt Damon. He said, quote, "Devyn is so great. She did such great work in the film. Please give her my best." And I also said to him, what should I ask her? He said, ask about her arm workout for all our sakes.

Okay, so how did you get the greatest arms Matt Damon has ever seen?

DEVYN DALTON, MATT DAMON'S STUNT DOUBLE, "THE ODYSSEY": Well, you know, I was already ready to go when I got the call, but I definitely was doing a lot of pull ups, a lot of push-ups. I love body weight stuff because I think it's just amazing. And definitely working in like bicep workouts about three times a week just to get that extra growth. I really wanted to impress Matt.

So, I'm so happy that he's -- he's thrilled. And I definitely send my love back. But yeah, I put in a lot of hard work for sure. I took the role very seriously, so definitely was hitting like, you know, upper body work at least three times a week.

TAPPER: This is your first role stunt doubling for a male character. Did that change in any way how you prepared for the film? Because you had to study not only Matt Damon's -- Matt Damon's movements, but also his character.

DALTON: Yeah, absolutely. I always try and do as much research as I can on the character and the story. Obviously, I wanted to make sure that my movements were going to be very strong and sharp and clean, and have a very strong presence.

So I really focused on just like, you know, moving in that way and embracing so I could tell the story through my movement because ultimately, you know, it's my job to make sure that the character is, is portrayed on screen and that audiences don't know that it's me. I want them to obviously think that it is Matt. It is Odysseus.

So, I was really working on my sword fighting skills and just being very strong. TAPPER: What else did you have to do to your physical appearance?

Because Matt obviously has this big ugly beard in the movie.

DALTON: Yeah.

TAPPER: Did you what? Did you have to glue a beard on? What else did you have to do?

DALTON: I did, I did, that's always a fun part for me. I love -- it's so amazing with costumes and hair and makeup, how they are able to transform you. And, you know, I really was an Odysseus mini me. So, it was quite amazing. I had the beard, I had the wig.

You know, I -- once I had armor on and had my shield and my sword. I just -- I felt like a gladiator. So, it also helps you perform because you really do feel and look like the character.

TAPPER: A lot of people --

DALTON: My beard was a little itchy, I will say, but --

TAPPER: This was. But his was real, right? Yours was fake.

DALTON: Yes, of course. Yes. I cannot grow a beard.

TAPPER: Yeah. No, I knew --I knew yours was fake. I just didn't know if his was real or fake. I thought it was real.

A lot of people might not know that, that they've already seen your work. But you have been in several blockbuster films and hit TV shows. You've been in "Weapons". You were in the last of us.

Do you think stunt doubles get enough recognition for making actors look as cool as you guys do?

DALTON: You know, I think I -- I think that it's so exciting that stunts is getting a lot more recognition. Part of the job is being a little bit behind the scenes. So, you do expect that a bit as a performer. Like I said, if the audience doesn't know you're there, then you've kind of done your job right as a stunt double.

But I do believe that it's really important to give recognition and give credit where it's due. I think stunts, I know stunts have been contributing to film for so long. There's such a crucial part of the filmmaking process and telling the story through the action. And it's so exciting for audiences. So, yeah, I'm really excited that the world is excited about stunts for them to understand the process more.

And absolutely for myself and my fellow stunt mates all around the world to get some recognition and be recognized on a much larger scale is definitely rewarding and long overdue.

TAPPER: Well, we're glad to give you some recognition here. You were amazing in the movie.

Devyn Dalton, thank you so much. DALTON: Thank you.

TAPPER: And you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on the TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show in the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.