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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI), Is Interviewed About Establishment Dem Beats Dem Socialist In Wisconsin Gov. Primary; ICE Plans To Spend Up To $20M On Electrical Shock Gloves; Indiana Fever Coach: Hate "Trying To Hijack" WNBA "Won't Win"; Mangione Plea Talks Ongoing Ahead Of Friday Hearing; Ukraine's Leader On Crisis Caused By Lack Of Missile Interceptors. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 12, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: -- where "The Lead," anchored by Phil Mattingly, starts right now.

[17:00:11]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: There's a reason why they say every vote matters. The Lead starts right now. A huge win for the Democratic establishment in Wisconsin as they defeat a Democratic socialist candidate in the governor's race by just a few thousand votes out of more than 700,000 ballots. Does this improve Democrats chances in the midterms?

Plus, the Trump administration is planning to spend up to $20 million on electrical shock gloves for ICE agents. The manufacturer says they're meant to deescalate encounters. The critics are already sounding the alarm, questioning why shock gloves are necessary for immigration enforcement.

And a new twist in the case against Luigi Mangione. Sources say his legal team is now in plea negotiations with federal prosecutors in the case tied to the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Similar talks fell apart earlier this summer. So what' changed?

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly. Jake Tapper is on assignment. We begin in our Politics Lead. And if you're keeping score in the fight for the identity of the Democratic Party, the establishment just struck back.

Last night, the establishment's last minute backing of David Crowley literally paid off. He narrowly defeated Democratic socialist Francesca Hong in the Democratic primary for governor. Crowley, it's been a crazy couple weeks. He'd actually dropped out of the race last month, only to jump back in after another prominent candidate dropped out. Many voters in the battleground state clearly worried that Hong would be a much weaker candidate in the general election against Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany.

It appears those worries stopped this progressive victory, given the race was seen as a test of the party's ideological direction just one week after Abdul El-Sayed won the Democratic nomination in Michigan's Senate primary by a narrow margin. Then in a Wisconsin Democratic House primary, Rebecca Cooke will get the rematch she wanted with Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden after she fought off her progressive rival Emily Burge. But progressives, they had plenty of wins of their own. They didn't get shut out across the board last night.

Next door in Minnesota, progressive candidate Lt. Governor Peggy Flanagan defeated moderate Congresswoman Angie Craig in the Democratic Senate primary. The two were competing for the party's nomination to replace retiring Senator Tina Smith. Plus, progressives marked another win in Minnesota in the primary for the House seat Craig is vacating. Matt Little, a former state senator, emerged as the winner in that crowded field.

Then there's the notable Republican Senate primary in South Carolina. President Donald Trump's support for Darline Graham, sister of the late Lindsey Graham, propelled her to first place in the crowded primary for a full Senate term. But there's no guarantee she'll be the favorite in the August 25 runoff against Congressman Ralph Norman.

We start things off with Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, who last night easily won the Democratic primary in his reelection bid.

Congressman, congratulations, first and foremost. I'm interested right now, you know, we try and draw some singular national narrative off of any primary night, and I'm as guilty of it as anybody else. What was your takeaway last night by what happened really, in the course of just a couple weeks sprint?

REP. MARK POCAN (D-WI): Yes. Well, thanks for having me on, Phil. I don't think you can have a single takeaway. You know, when you're a purple state like Wisconsin, anything can have a big influence when you have really close races. And this was about as close of a race as you can have.

But I think, you know, Governor Evers got in and people really respect Governor Evers in the state of Wisconsin. And I think that endorsement was really a huge endorsement. And he campaigned the final 10 days or so with David Crowley. And, you know, they were razor thin margin between the two. So a very strong grassroots, progressive campaign and a campaign with the very popular sitting governor made it a very close race.

And at the end of the day, we already -- today we had a unity breakfast and everyone got together, every candidate for governor, as well as Tammy Baldwin, our senator, and our attorney general, Josh Kaul, and others. So we're just looking forward to making sure that we keep the governorship blue in Wisconsin, we pick up our state assembly and state Senate, and we could pick up a congressional seat or two from Wisconsin, given the year. So I think it was really a lot of unity happening today.

MATTINGLY: One of the interesting things, I think there is kind of maybe a little bit of a lazy idea of trying to compare every candidate like Francesca Hong or Abdul El-Sayed or any other DSA member as the same exact candidate. There were not prominent progressives that were getting behind the Hong campaign. You did not endorse in this race. Why was that?

POCAN: Well, I haven't endorsed in a governor's race or a U.S. Senate race for about 15 years. My job is to keep the peace and make sure no one unfairly attacks anyone. And no one did during the campaign. But that's been my job for almost since I had hair.

[17:05:00]

So, you know, I'm going to keep that up because I think it's really important. But I do think you're right. I mean, to say that, you know, somehow Francesca Hong is another candidate, is another candidate, is one of the stupidest narratives that out there -- is out there. But the D.C. pundits, people who have really big houses in Virginia and like to sit on their butts in their chairs and pontificate, have been so wrong this cycle. They have not gotten primary voters right.

Primary voters in Democratic Party are outraged with Donald Trump. They're concerned, do we even have elections in November, and they want to see the fight. And, you know, Francesca Hong really spoke to that message. And then the governor got out there with David Crowley, and they really spoke to the message, but maybe in a slightly different way. And again, it was almost an even split in the end.

But the important part is we know Tom Tiffany, the Republican member of Congress who's now the Republican nominee, is one of the most extreme members in Congress. He's part of the Freedom Caucus. He's voted to allow the tariffs that are making groceries and everyday goods more expensive. He voted for the One Big Beautiful Bill that made healthcare and utility rates go up. He supported the president on an illegal war in Iran that's making gas prices go up.

So you know that, pus, he didn't want to release the Epstein files, go down the list. We are looking forward to this debate, but again, trying to make this a left, right spectrum and compare every candidate who happens to be progressive is one of the dumbest narratives, honestly, that I've heard. But again, they come out of Punditville and in Washington, D.C. which I've often found to be one of the dumbest places.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned the unity breakfast. You know what's interesting about this, I don't think you could look at Crowley's record and think that he's some blue dog super moderate, like he has a progressive record, if you look at it. I'm interested, you know, given the kind of intraparty battles that have been playing out since 2024, do you feel like the party will be unified when it matters in November?

POCAN: Yes, I mean, David Crowley was a really strong state legislator. He is the Milwaukee County executive right now, so the biggest governmental body. He's been the chief executive officer, like he will be as governor of Wisconsin. His resume is almost perfect for the job that's coming up, and he has the right temperament, and he's going to be a really strong candidate. But we understand the contrast, again, is A mini me version of Donald Trump in Republican member of Congress Tom Tiffany.

So, you know, I don't think that's going to be a question. In fact, really important we got fair maps for our state legislature a couple years ago, and this is the year we need to pick up five more state assembly seats, two seats of the state Senate, and we can have a blue trifecta and what's going to be a really good year. So I think people are motivated. In the third Congressional District, Becca Cooke can beat Derrick Van Orden. I think Mitchell Berman is going to put on a really strong race against Bryan Steil.

And I think people should really watch that. The numbers are good in that district and we're going to deliver in Wisconsin for people.

MATTINGLY: It's been quite a climb for Democrats in Wisconsin over the course of the last 16 years, on the brink of potentially something very big. Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, thanks so much, sir.

POCAN: Yes, thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, also in our Politics Lead, some breaking news. A change in one of the most visible jobs at the Trump White House, any White House, really. Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt is leaving. CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Leavitt just returned from maternity leave.

What are we hearing, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, this is a huge loss for this president, I'd argue for a number of reasons. One, I would point out the timing of her departure. She's going to be leaving just three months before the November midterm elections. That's hard when she's your chief messenger.

I also know that the president fixated so much on who he wanted to get up and stand behind the podium. Obviously, he went with Leavitt, who I would point out is the youngest press secretary in U.S. history. But it's going to be tough to fill that role.

Now, the reason for this, both Karoline Leavitt and the president, they put out lengthy statements about her departure which they said will come at the end of the month and cited the reason being essentially that she needs to spend more time with her family. You pointed this out, Phil, but she just gave birth on May 1 to a daughter and took only about a month of maternity leave. During that time through the course of my reporting, I've learned the president was often calling her up, still checking in with her, and also frequently asking, I'm told, when she was coming back. So, definitely a demanding job that she leads here.

But I think another part of this is, of course, how close she is to the president. Trump in his post said that she's one of his most trusted aides and that's true. She belongs to a very small group of very loyal advisers. She's someone who was on the president's 2024 presidential election campaign. She also worked for him back during his first term, his first White House. And she's someone who's often in the room for some of the most sensitive conversations about the president with the president, and someone that he actually listens to. So it's going to be difficult to find someone to replace her.

I'll also tell you that I've been catching up with some White House staffers today following the news. They said they were surprised by it and also that it's unclear who actually is going to replace her. They don't believe they have picked who her replacement will be at. So stay tuned for that because, again, this is a very big job, particularly with a president as demanding as this one.

MATTINGLY: Yes, no question about it. Absolutely essential member of that team set to depart.

Alayna Treene at the White House, thanks as always, my friend.

[17:10:04]

Well, the Department of Homeland Security could soon spend $20 million buying electrical shock gloves for ICE agents. We'll explain how the manufacturer says this tool is meant to deescalate encounters and why critics already calling it unsafe and unnecessary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, electrical shock gloves, that's what Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and officers could be using in the near future. ICE is looking to spend up to $20 million on these electrical shock gloves. Former Republican Adam Kinzinger reacting on social media, quote, "So I guess the GOP is cool with ICE using electric shock gloves. This feels a bit, hmmm, communist."

And former Congressman Kinzinger joins me in studio.

ADAM KINZINGER, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Just for you.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I appreciate it.

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's always good to see you in person. It's still unclear when ICE would start using the gloves or how many in the Department of Homeland Security intends to buy. The manufacturer says they are Compliant Technology -- the manufacturer Compliant Technologies, says the gloves are intended to deescalate encounters with individuals.

KINZINGER: I mean, this is just. It's the weirdest thing. And if you saw that video, you guys are showing at least one of them, the demonstration, so it's a police officer that gets shocked with the gloves, and he is, like, down. I mean -- and it sounds like he's in pain. This looks like it's even more intense than a Taser.

[17:15:11]

It's just like -- it's meant to intimidate, sure. It's meant to control. But like this is something that you would see in authoritarian regimes. In authoritarian regimes, you see them open up the fire hoses, right, and spray people that are protesting. And you know, we're on the heels of another video coming out of an ICE agent with a gun in somebody's face.

And we don't know what led up to that and all that. But this is just one more thing. Plus the contract itself is no bid, which is another thing we have -- there are so many of these contracts that come out no bid and we find out later it's connected to somebody in the administration or DHS or something like that. We don't know that's the case here, but that tends to have been the pattern.

MATTINGLY: Yes, there's plenty of evidence of exactly what you're saying in terms of the contract.

KINZINGER: And by the way, what are they going to -- are they going to run around a crowd and just start zapping people and taking them down? I mean, is that really what we want to be, if you ask me?

MATTINGLY: It feels like -- and I mean this genuinely, it feels like something that should be explained.

KINZINGER: Yes, absolutely.

MATTINGLY: What the rationale for it is, why they need to use it, why they don't have enough right now. It seems like they're going to go down this path, at least try and explain --

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- what it is. I do want to switch over to the Air Force One ruse that we saw. President Trump telling reporters last night that he was generally unbothered by the potential Iranian attack against him. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guess there was a threat out there. I didn't really ask there much about it. I get a lot of threats.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you worried about a shoulder-fired missile?

TRUMP: I don't worry about anything, to be honest. Whatever it is, you know, my attitude, whatever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I mean, sure, that attitude generally is helpful as a parent.

KINZINGER: It is true.

MATTINGLY: But in this particular situation, I think I'm still trying to get my head around all of the dynamics that were at play here. What's your read on? KINZINGER: So look, they are trying to use Clinton and Pakistan as an example when there was something similar done. But the difference in there is the staff and the press were advised of what happened. They were kind of locked down. Clinton went out on a different jet or something like that. A very different situation.

This is like putting your staff, putting the press at risk is obviously very concerning. The thing I have an issue with, obviously the Secret Service needs to protect the president. Nobody's arguing with that. It is the lies, the constant lies that surround this. Remember, the whole thing started he pretended like the new Air Force One was going to the U.K. so all the troops could see the new jet.

MATTINGLY: Right.

KINZINGER: And then it ended up, you know, everything else they are now investigating. Remember the FBI showed up at some reporter's, you know, house to ask questions about who got this information out. The former secretary of the Air Force had his security clearance taken away, which they have done like a baker's dozen times to me because they always, you know, run out of things to hit me with. And it's just the constant lies surrounding it. And then the President in a different part of that interview said, actually the plane that I went out on was actually a bigger target.

That was the bigger target, not the Air Force One, which nobody believes. This is why everybody's confused and sitting there like what is happening. And if I was a member of the press and I was on that plane and I -- and you know, known to be a target, I'd be pretty upset about this.

MATTINGLY: I also think it takes away from the bigger problem of, in a NATO ally --

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- territory with a genuine concern about a shoulder fired missile threat from a country that you're in the midst of a conflict.

KINZINGER: And a country that we have defeated according to the president at least a dozen times already. Now the president is going away in a -- in a catering cart because we're, I thought we took out all of their air defense and all their air offense, all of their command and control, all their radars, yet we're still bombing them when we bomb. And now there's a threat over Turkey. It just, none of this makes sense.

And this is the thing. The American people are willing to accept vulnerabilities. They're willing to accept different things if you're truthful to us. And it's the constant lies that just get exhausting.

MATTINGLY: As a -- as a former participant in the article, one part of the government, I'm interested in -- the Washington Post has a really smart story out. Speaking of Secret Service needing to keep the president safe, they're reporting that the Trump administration is planning to use millions from Secret Service funding to pay for the construction of White House projects. Projects like the ballroom, the helicopter pad, so on and so forth. Washington Post says the administration planning to spend at least $900 million, $500 million of it coming from the Secret Service and White House military office. I know that's not how Congress appropriated it.

KINZINGER: Sure. Yes.

MATTINGLY: OMB can do a lot of things. It turns out there's a lot of gray area there and they've figured all that out. What's your read on it?

KINZINGER: Well, first off, the reason OMB can figure that out is because Congress is unwilling to exert its own authority.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

KINZINGER: That's the key. And the founders of the Constitution -- of this country always assumed there'd be somebody like Donald Trump that would come along. They never assumed that Congress would so willingly give up its power. What they're planning to do, I'm guessing, is to use this budget and then come to Congress later and say that they have to worry about security of the president and everybody else and they need more money to cover that. And Congress will be like, well, sure, we want to keep the president safe.

Now, also keep in mind, they have pulled Secret Service protection and other protection from former administration officials. They did this all within like the first month. You think of John Bolton and others, Mike Pompeo, they pulled protection from them. Even again, even members of their own administration, they play games with this. And I think Congress needs to stand up and say, no, you can't do it.

[17:20:18]

And if Congress does that, they can stop it from happening. That won't happen.

MATTINGLY: Yes, fingers crossed there.

KINZINGER: Sure thing.

MATTINGLY: I saw what you were doing there. It's super important point. Don't blame OMB, don't blame rust vote (ph), don't blame the administration. They're doing what they can --

KINZINGER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- because Congress is abdicating their responsibilities.

Congressman, it's good to see you.

KINZINGER: Yes, you too. Thanks.

MATTINGLY: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Well, police are investigating after a black woman was found hanging from a tree in Mississippi. What we're learning about the circumstances around her death, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:11]

MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, a disturbing hanging death has shaken a community in Mississippi after two other people in the state have been found hanging from trees in less than a year. The body of Tasia Fortune, a 29-year-old black woman, was found hanging outside an abandoned house in Jackson on August 3rd. Police have not indicated whether they consider her death suspicious, saying they are actively working to, quote, "determine the circumstances surrounding the death." I want to bring in CNN's Omar Jimenez.

Omar, what was Fortune doing when she was last heard from and what do we know about these other hanging deaths?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so her mother told ABC News that she last saw her on July 26, that she had traveled to Kentucky for a family reunion. But it was about a week later Fortune lived in Mississippi that police found her body hanging from a tree outside of an abandoned home in Jackson, Mississippi. A 29-year-old. She was a mother of four.

Now to this point, as you mentioned, police have not indicated publicly whether they officially consider her death suspicious, only that they're continuing to try and work through this to determine the causes surrounding or the circumstances surrounding her death and they haven't identified publicly any suspects. Now to this point, it is clear that city officials have been very deliberative in their messaging here, not jumping to any premature conclusions or even offering speculation. And to that point, I just want you to listen to what the mayor of Jackson, Mississippi has said on this, John Horhn, and what he told our local affiliate WAPT.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOHN HORHN (D), JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI: People are upset about it and quite naturally they should be. This is something that's a very disturbing situation and case in our city and in our state. But we're not going to jump to conclusions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Now the mayor says they are expecting to hear Thursday from the state medical examiner's office on the official cause of death. Again, a lot we still don't know here, but obviously the raw imagery of a black person hanging from a tree in the American south evokes a very painful history.

Now you asked about the other two cases of people found hanging in Mississippi. One was a 21-year-old black man named Trey Reed. He was a student, though in that case it was ruled a suicide. And the autopsy did not find evidence of foul play, though his family has been pushing to try and see an independent autopsy. And that third case was a white man in his 30s in Vicksburg, Mississippi, who was homeless as we understand. But that one also died by suicide, according to the state medical examiner.

In Fortune's case specifically, again, still a lot of questions here, but that expected autopsy is expected to at least offer a little bit of clarity into what happened here. But again, police haven't said much. They haven't offered any public suspects to this point, and as the mayor has pointed out and emphasized that they are proceeding with caution as they investigate this, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes, a lot of unanswered questions. Please keep us posted as you learn more.

Omar Jimenez, as always, my friend, thank you.

Well, coming up, the controversies surrounding the WNBA hitting a breaking point. How Indiana Fever's star player, Caitlin Clark, came to her beleaguered coach's defense. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Two major stories top our Sports Lead. First, in a stunning twist, Jared Kushner's younger brother and former Disney CEO Bob Iger are buying the Los Angeles Lakers for a record $12.5 billion with a B. Second, Indiana Fever's head coach Stephanie White is fed up with her and her team having to deal with conversations on anything but WNBA basketball.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE WHITE, INDIANA FEVER HEAD COACH: They know that. It's a shame that we can't have an opportunity to talk about what great basketball they're playing. The hate, the fear-mongering, the divisiveness, the stuff that's trying to hijack our league will not win. Every day these women put their -- on the line. I will always stand by them. Everybody else can go to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: White also defended her handling of a flagrant foul on Fever guard Sophie Cunningham. Cunningham's, of course, been at the center of an anti-trans debate that's been looming over the WNBA.

Here to discuss this stunning Laker deal is CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan. She's also a sports columnist for USA Today and, most importantly, a former Ottawa Hills Green Bear fellow. Ottawa Hills Green Bear. Christine, I'm going to be honest with you, like, there is generational talent like we've never seen before on the floor for the WNBA right now, and the league just feels like an absolute mess. The Fever fans actually booing the coach at the start of last night's game against the New York Liberty. This is what Fever superstar Caitlin Clark had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CAITLIN CLARK, INDIANA FEVER GUARD: I hated that our fans booed her before the game. That made me a little sick, to be honest. And you can disagree in this and that, and I get it. It's professional sports. People are going to boo, but at the end of the day, that's our head coach, and we're going to ride for her, and we're always going to have our back, and it's never going to tear our locker room apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The headlines are about that. They're not about Caitlin Clark breaking her own record for most games with 20-plus points and 10-plus assists in a season in WNBA history or how Clark and four of her teammates had double figures. What do you make of this moment right now?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Phil, as you know, I've been covering the WNBA. Caitlin Clark wrote a book about this incredible time in women's sports and Caitlin Clark herself. So I've reported a lot on this over the last couple of years. And it's a league that is clearly going through growing pains, and the Indiana Fever are like a major league team in a sport and a league that basically was ignored for decades by the mainstream media.

[17:35:05]

And so when that happens, obviously lots of fans come in, lots of interest, and everything is picked apart in a way that it never was before. Stephanie White, the head coach, is also a broadcaster. She's basically Miss Indiana Basketball, went to Purdue, won a national title there, Player of the Year, Fever Coach before, again now, a very experienced person. When she goes off, you know, that she's upset and that it's pretty bad.

On the other hand, Caitlin Clark, when she said what she said, as you know, she also said, we were not going to lose this game. They beat the New York Liberty, a big game for them. They won the last seven of 10 games, the Indiana Fever, on a roll, as you said, if anyone cares about the basketball part of it.

But the Indiana Fever did win, and I've covered a lot of men's teams over the years, a lot of sports, mostly men's sports, and sometimes when there's controversy and when you can get fired up like a locker room speech, a team will go on a run. And if the Indiana Fever end up in the playoffs, a big, well they will, a big run, maybe even have a chance at the title, they'll look back at this moment as one of the defining moments in terms of just literally having had it, and Caitlin Clark saying enough is enough, we're going to win this game no matter what, we're going to win it for our coach.

But there are, as you said, tons of issues underlying this, societal issues, almost anything you -- that people want to talk about societally, they put it like a blank canvas on the WNBA, and that certainly is a huge headline and will be, I'm sure, for the next few months.

MATTINGLY: Why do you think that is? The whole anti-trans debate that was sparked over the course of the last couple of weeks, there's not a single transgender athlete in the WNBA, but where is the WNBA commissioner, the leadership, the P.R. team in trying to kind of wrest control back here?

BRENNAN: You nailed it. Cathy Engelbert, a top official executive at Deloitte, a woman in a man's world, the kind of woman that we celebrate. I've known her forever. It pains me to say this, but she has been missing in action basically throughout these last three years, which I would call the Caitlin Clark era. I know that makes people angry, but it's true. The T.V. ratings, the attendance, every part of it is increased exponentially because of Caitlin Clark's arrival in the WNBA.

And as you know, from covering all the stories you have over the years, where there is no leadership, where there's a vacuum, what enters that vacuum? Anger, aggression, nonsense, you know, controversy. And that's what we're seeing. Leaders have to lead. And, you know, the WNBA right now seems rudderless. And frankly, it's felt that way to me with my reporting since the book, since Caitlin Clark's rookie year, they were totally unprepared for what was happening. And now here we are looking at the remnants of a rudderless, leaderless league.

MATTINGLY: I've thought several times that your process of reporting the book and the book itself was a leading indicator of a lot of stuff that we've seen over the course of the last couple of weeks. Before I let you go, I do want to ask about this major NBA deal because I quadruple ticked or took -- take -- took one of the two at the price tag here. Former Disney CEO, Bob Iger, younger brother of Jared Kushner, who's Trump's son-in-law, are buying the L.A. Lakers for a record $12.5 billion. The Lakers were just sold a year ago to Mark Walter. What's happening here?

BRENNAN: Yes. Well, the, this team of Kushner and Iger, we're looking at buying an expansion team in Las Vegas and literally according to reporting by ESPN and others within the weekend, it all changed. And they said, why aren't we looking at an existing franchise? What about the Lakers? Both men live in LA, both love basketball. And so they just threw an incredible amount of money at Mark Walter. Mark Walter also owns the Dodgers and he is under investigation.

So there's some federal investigation. There's some things that he's dealing with as well. So another, basically he's made about 2.5 million -- 2.5 billion, excuse me, billion with a B in this -- in the year and a few months that he's owned the team and it is stunning. People are shocked. The insiders in the NBA, they're all surprised. It shows the, obviously the incredible value now of sport franchises and how much people want to get in and want to be there, want to be owners.

And that's what we're seeing. Obviously Bob Iger for years and known, of course for ABC and ESPN and Disney. And so a major player in the sports world for forever. And Kushner, of course as well, a major investor and very, very rich person. So they can do it. They're going to do it. And because it's L.A., there are all eyes on it and headlines that otherwise maybe we wouldn't see in different franchises.

MATTINGLY: I love that. Like just over the weekend. Why didn't we think of that, Chris? We like -- we just -- we missed her next weekend. We'll figure we'll go by the Cowboys or something. Christine Brennan, always appreciate you, my friend. Thanks so much.

BRENNAN: Phil, you too. Thank you.

[17:39:49]

MATTINGLY: Well, President Trump keeps saying he supports bringing back the so-called anti-weaponization fund to the tune of $1.776 billion. Attorney General Todd Blanche was pressed on whether that fund is truly dead. His answer is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our Law and Justice Lead, we take you to New York, where plea negotiations are ongoing for Luigi Mangione, who faces charges in the December 2024 fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Sources tell CNN that talks between Mangione's legal team and federal prosecutors are fluid and may not result in a resolution. Now, this all comes ahead of a hastily scheduled hearing the judge set for this Friday. CNN's Kara Scannell has been covering every aspect of this story. What are we learning right now, Kara?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, sources tell us that Luigi Mangione's team is in plea negotiations with federal prosecutors, and this hearing has been set for Friday. But the sources caution that this could fall apart. No deal is certain, and there's certainly a lot that can happen between now and Friday. What is interesting is that this hearing was set at the request of prosecutors and Mangione's lawyers. They asked the judge for a conference. That is now scheduled for Friday.

[17:45:17]

And it all came about just hours after Mangione appeared in state court yesterday, where the judge finalized that jury selection in the state case will take place on September 8th. So certainly developments on the federal side could impact the state case, and representatives for Mangione and the U.S. Attorney's Office have declined to comment on these developments.

MATTINGLY: Can I follow up on that? What would happen to the state case if there's a deal reached with the feds?

SCANNELL: It really is going to depend on what Mangione pleads guilty to, if ultimately he does. And that question will arise because in New York State, there's a double jeopardy law that says you can't be tried for the same crime twice. Mangione was charged with federal stalking charges that led to the murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, and in state court, he's facing a murder charge for allegedly murdering the CEO. So whether there is daylight between what he pleads to and how they overlap in those cases will ultimately decide whether the state case can go forward or whether it is covered by double jeopardy. But I expect we are going to see some litigation over that unless state prosecutors are satisfied. But again, this is all going to come down to Friday to see what ultimately happens if a deal is reached and exactly what Mangione admits to. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Kara Scannell, great reporting as always, my friend.

My panel joins me now. Katelyn Polantz, there were talks in June about a potential plea deal. That fell apart. Why would this time be different?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, this is just how it works whenever there's a trial date on the schedule. And we are not too far away from a state trial date for Luigi Mangione. September 8th is what Kara was just reporting. The federal trial date isn't until January 5th. But if there is going to be a resolution for him and he is a defendant, may want to potentially plead guilty and come down to have some sort of control of what the outcome would be.

Somehow make a negotiation on what his sentencing may look like. But this is a really interesting moment for the Justice Department. Where do they fall? Are they letting the state prosecutors take the lead or are they the ones that want to clear the state prosecutors away and get a plea on the books for them? It really is a question of how it would affect the state case.

But this is one of those moments where you just have to watch the docket day by day to see what's going to happen. The plea talks are in negotiations. Anything can happen. Things can go off the rails. Something could happen very secretly that we learn about later and it all could spill out into court, which we know there's a lot of supporters of Mangione as well as people watching this case very closely, planning to go to court this Friday to see what happens.

TAPPER: Yes, it seems like a huge couple days ahead. Elliott, Mangione previously pleaded guilty in both cases. Reminder that in the Southern District of New York he faces federal stalking charges and in the state case he faces second degree murder and weapons charges. A guilty plea to federal charges, as Kara was just alluding to, could trigger New York's double jeopardy law. Explain to me what I just said.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: And it's more than New York's double jeopardy law. Now he pleaded not guilty.

MATTINGLY: Not guilty, sorry. It's not guilty.

WILLIAMS: A critical but just slight error.

MATTINGLY: Fairly important.

WILLIAMS: It's not just New York state law. It's the Constitution of the United States. This concept of double jeopardy, someone cannot be tried twice for the same offense in two different jurisdictions. And if he's convicted or at least pleads guilty to say homicide under federal law, he can't then be prosecuted by New York State. The Constitution forbids that. So that's something to keep an eye out for.

There's just a lot of things to keep an eye out for if in fact he pleads guilty. It's number one, just remember there's nothing remarkable about a guilty plea. I think something, 97 or so percent of federal cases end up pleading guilty. So this is quite common. The problem is that state prosecutors have a huge interest in sending him to jail as well. So if he does plead and if the feds are working out a deal here, state prosecutors are probably going to seek, number one, as Caitlin and Kara were saying, on some different charge than what they want to prosecute him on, number one.

And number two, to ensure that he gets the highest sentence possible and isn't just getting a sweet deal. One more set of parties who really has a lot to say here is the family of the victim. They will have a right to weigh in on any guilty plea. They have a right to object to it and at least say that, wait a second, justice will not be served if you let this person plead guilty. So there's just a lot of things to keep an eye on between now and Friday with the federal.

MATTINGLY: I want to switch topics, but just real quick, are they all talking to one another right now?

WILLIAMS: They likely are. I would -- it would be malpractice if the federal and state government were not talking to each other just because these are such important cases for the public.

MATTINGLY: OK, so another topic. Today, Attorney General Todd Blanche was asked to confirm once again that the president's anti- weaponization fund is officially dead. He emphatically insisted that it was, but then he decided to continue speaking and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, the President feels very strongly, as do I, that there were people who were victims of a Department of Justice that was absolutely weaponized. And he feels very strongly that he would want to make them whole, as do I. But it will not be through the anti-weaponization fund.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:50:07]

MATTINGLY: Katelyn, he could have just stopped after like two sentences and then just decided that he wanted to say that. Why?

POLANTZ: I was in disbelief listening to this because he spent about a minute before that saying every single way he was not having the anti- weaponization fund.

MATTINGLY: In my Senate hearing, in my private conversations, in my phone calls.

POLANTZ: Yes, and that is exactly what the pressure has been on him to do. And then at the very end of the question, he says, I don't know why you guys keep asking me about it. Specifically, he said, this seems like a super fun story to not let die. That must be why the press keeps asking. But then he says, the President wants to make them whole, as do I. So the question out there, the how to make people whole. If it isn't an anti-weaponization fund, there's still a huge pot of money that the Treasury Department, the U.S. government sits on and can distribute as they please. If there are settlements for claims that people make outside of this anti-weaponization fund they were setting up, there are ways that January 6th rioters still could be paid.

There are ways January 6th rioters right now are in court trying to sue the Justice Department to get money, trying to claim that they were harmed in some way and deserve money from the federal government. Watching how that money is distributed is going to be harder because it's not collected and branded as part of an anti-weaponization fund. But sure sounds like that is something that Blanche may be interested in looking into if he wants to make people whole, that the President would also want to make people whole. The question is going to keep staying out there as long as it isn't, we're not doing this in any way.

MATTINGLY: Yes, caveat. We definitely want to still do this, basically. OK. One thing, because I have you here, I want to ask you, the judge ordered the Kennedy Center to pay $250,000 to a performer who canceled their show after Trump's name was added to the building. Is this the start of something we are going to see a lot of?

WILLIAMS: It's not, and I don't want people to get too alarmed by this. What happened was they essentially sued him for breach of contract because he did not want to show up at the event. The challenge was there was no contract in the first place. So his argument was that the administration just sued me to harass me, and he is recovering the $250,000 of what he claims his legal fees and expenses were. That's right.

MATTINGLY: They sued him over breaking a contract that didn't exist.

WILLIAMS: Well, it technically was not signed. They presented him with a contract to be at their 2025 Christmas celebration. He didn't do it, didn't sign it. They sued him for breach of contract. And in the process of that, he says, well, this cost me $258,000, I think was the dollar amount. That's what he's recovering here. All the big picture here to pull back, Phil, this is really about an administration that really has not been shy about filing lawsuits against people that disagree. And this was somewhat of a political moment of not wanting to show up at the Trump Kennedy Center. He was sued.

POLANTZ: We are seeing more of this, though. Judges sanctioning lawyers for taking a route in court that they wouldn't normally take.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it's going to be fascinating to watch going forward. You've got to sign the thing for it to count, I think. That's my legal. Don't stop. Stop it. Just let it ride. Let it ride.

WILLIAMS: Oral contracts. Oral contracts.

MATTINGLY: That'll be our after-show discussion. Contracts law. Elliot, Katelyn, thank you, guys. Appreciate you.

[17:53:24]

Well, today, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh sat down with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Kyiv. Here's Zelenskyy's message to President Trump next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Now to our World Lead, in the war in Ukraine, Russian ballistic missile strikes are increasing as Ukraine's supply of Patriot missile interceptors runs short. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv and sat down today with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Are you out of interceptors now? Do you have none left?

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: No. I will explain you how it works. So this year we have two and a half times less interceptors than we had in 2025, first. Russia has two times more ballistic missiles per month than they had before. We pay 100 percent to Americans. I have the package from the United States and then my personal involvement. It doesn't work other way.

It's my personal talks, meetings and phones, phone calls each day. With everybody I try to exchange something to missiles. This year I'm asking American partners to sell me 5 percent, 5 percent of missiles, what they have in their stocks. If they sell us 5 percent we will go through the winter and save people's lives. If they can sell us 10 percent, we will destroy all the Russians ballistic missiles.

WALSH: And has that request been answered yet? Have you had a clear indication as to whether you --

ZELENSKYY: The answer is for today is next. I have 1 percent. This is in what I live each year day from 1 percent to 5 percent. I have some, you know, some months and million phone calls and anything else. What can I do? I do some things which I can't even share. It's not -- it doesn't mean that it's out of the law. No, but it's -- I can't speak about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:59:57]

WALSH: Kind of a startling sign really, of a president there, wartime president, spending hours every day simply trying to explain or coerce at times allies to give him the interceptors that save lives every single night. Look, Kyiv, like every Ukrainian city, deeply on edge because sometimes some nights they seem to intercept, no Russian ballistic missiles that come in waves of dozens.

The deadliest month In July since April 2022 for Ukrainian civilians, the shortage because of the U.S. war with Iran, a global shortage, but it's being felt here utter, acutely. Ukraine was kind of told by President Trump they get a license to make their own Patriot interceptors, but that's in doubt. President Trump change his mind, it seems, and they're really unsure how they might get that to happen. But they need interceptors right now, tonight, frankly, to protect civilians here.

MATTINGLY: Just a remarkable clip. Nick Payton Walsh, really important interview. Thanks so much.