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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Major Midterm Implications; Racing Against the Clock; New Warning from the Godfather of A.I. New Trump Tariffs Horn In On Brass Instruments; Russell Westbrook Retires From NBA After 18 Seasons. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 12, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly. Jake Tapper is on assignment.

This hour, consequential primary elections with major midterm implications. The Democratic establishment surging back in Wisconsin, narrowly defeating a Democratic Socialist candidate. But progressives scored big wins in other races. We're breaking it all down with our political veterans.

Plus, Colombian officials warn the so-called golden window is closing, the first 72 hours after an earthquake with each people buried alive. The U.S. now sending a disaster response team to try and aid in the efforts. We're live on the ground in one of the hardest hit areas ahead.

Also, it's the latest installment of our series, AI: Friend or Foe? Tonight, we're joined by the man known as the godfather of artificial intelligence, Geoffrey Hinton. He thinks the U.S. government is not capable of handling how quickly A.I. is evolving. Hear what he thinks needs to happen right now to reduce the threat.

The Lead tonight, Democrats are taking stock and making money moves after last night's primary results. In battleground Wisconsin, moderate Democrat David Crowley narrowly won over Democratic Socialist-backed candidate for governor, Francesca Hong. While in the race for Minnesota's Senate seat, progressive candidate for governor, Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, pulled out a decisive win over centrist Congresswoman Angie Craig. And nearly 30-year U.S. House incumbent from Connecticut, John Larson, was unseated by a lot by 47- year-old former Hartford Mayor Luke Bronin. We're going to talk to him in just a minute.

But, first, I'm joined by CNN's Arlette Saenz in studio off the campaign trail. You've been talking to your sources all day. It's hard to figure out, like, one definitive narrative of what happened last night. What are you hearing from Democrats?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Phil, the mixed results in Wisconsin and Minnesota show that there's really no clear consensus among Democratic voters about the direction that the party should take. In many ways, this has really been the summer of progressive pushes, but voters in this battleground of Wisconsin show that there is a limit to that. David Crowley, who had dropped out of the race a month ago only to get in about ten days later, was really able to mount this last-minute push to ensure that Francesca Hong, the Democratic socialist, was not able to win in the governor's race. Crowley was aided a lot by the state's current governor Tony Evers.

But I think that the very close margins, not just in Wisconsin, but also in Michigan, show just how divided the party is, and there are still very sizable chunks of the party who do feel they should go the progressive way, others feeling it should go the more moderate establishment way. But right now, the task for Crowley and people like Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan is trying to bring the party together, and we heard a bit of that from Crowley last night, or this morning actually, after the results were called.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CROWLEY (D), WISCONSIN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: We may not agree on every policy, we may not use the same labels, but we all want safe communities, strong schools, affordable healthcare, good paying jobs, and a brighter future for all of our children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, in Minnesota, there was a much more decisive victory, and that was for the progressive, the lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan. Minnesota is a more blue-leaning state than Wisconsin is. But what's interesting about that race is that it's really one that also hinged on local issues. Immigration enforcement became such a flashpoint in Minnesota in the early years of the second President Trump term. And Flanagan was really effectively able to use Congresswoman Angie Craig's vote with Republicans on the Laken Riley Act as a key messaging point in this campaign, which ultimately proved successful for her.

But, really, these contests don't really give a clear picture of what Democrats want. We may get some more answers about that come November in these midterm elections and then, of course, in 2028 as well.

MATTINGLY: It's as if these races are unique on some level, and you've been reporting that out throughout the entire time.

All right, I want to turn to the thing that makes campaign reporters happy, which is that they have reasons to go down to Charleston for the next couple of weeks and eat great food. The Republican outcome in the race to replace the late Senator Lindsey Graham, there's going to be a runoff.

[18:05:00]

What do we expect?

SAENZ: Yes. Well, Darline Graham, who was appointed to fill the remainder of the term for her late brother, she emerged from this primary on top with the help of President Donald Trump. But it wasn't enough to win her this primary outright. She is going to face off against Congressman Ralph Norman in just about two weeks in the runoff there.

But there's real questions about whether she will be able to coalesce Republicans, whether Trump can get her over the finish line.

Darline Graham, the senator, has never held elected office prior to being appointed to this seat. So, there's a lot of challenges that are facing her going forward. But this will be a big test of the Graham name, but also of President Trump's clout in that state.

MATTINGLY: No question about it.

It's good to see you back off the road briefly. Arlette Saenz, as always, thanks so much.

Well, to the breaking news in our national lead in what appears to be another shocking confrontation with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers and a U.S. citizen, this one just outside of Washington, D.C.

On Monday, Carolina Molina posted a video from her confrontation in Falls Church, Virginia, that quickly racked up thousands of views. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you record us. You almost ran us over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't almost run you over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You almost ran us over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're so full of (BLEEP).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop playing. Stop playing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are full of (BLEEP).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not funny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not funny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will arrest you. Keep it up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a legal citizen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep it up. I don't care.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my goodness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of your car, lock you up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay, for what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's the one that tried to run us over. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Run you over when? That's her car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got recording. I got dash cam. I got dash cam. That's a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And here's two parts of that dash cam footage she mentioned, when she first saw the officers and when she was stopped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (BLEEP). You are (BLEEP).

Are you really --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following us?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following us?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm actually leaving cars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is your warning, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm leaving cars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just so you know, you need to stop following us, all right? This is your warning. Stop following us. Yes, you record us. You almost ran us over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't almost ran you over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You almost ran us over. Stop playing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins me now. Shimon, we're now learning from Molina, what else did she -- we're now hearing from Molina. What else did she have to say?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Look, I mean, Phil, the bottom line is this is just another incident in many that is raising a lot of questions over the tactics that are being utilized by ICE officers all across the country. You know, we've seen horrific situations in Chicago. We recently saw a death in Maine, all involving car stops. And here yet again, we have another situation where an ICE officer just so quickly, the first thing he does here is pulls out his gun as he approaches Molina. She described what was going on that day and then she defended her actions, describing why she pulled her phone out and started recording, and why perhaps it could have saved her life. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CAROLINA MOLINA, RECORDED ENCOUNTER WITH FEDERAL AGENTS: And I decide to bring out my cellphone and record and that is when it feels like the situation changed. It feels like then he started planting the seed of you are trying to run us over. She was trying to run us over, et cetera, et cetera. And that is not the case. I was actually trying to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And you can really feel that once they realize, once that ICE officer realizes that she is filming them, it starts to deescalate the situation and they pull back, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Shimon, what have we heard from the Department of Homeland Security about this?

PROKUPECZ: So, yet again, it's kind of similar to what we always hear in these situations. They are defending these officers, and they ultimately give them justification for what they did here, and how they stopped her, and how they blocked her, and then ultimately pulled out their weapon. They say that on August 10th, on Monday, while ICE was conducting targeted immigration enforcement in Falls Church, Virginia, an anti-ICE agitator began to drive her car in circles around our ICE officers, and then attempted to harm officers by weaponizing her vehicle against them, all in attempt to help illegal aliens get away.

Now, from the video that we have seen that she has released, the dash cam video and the video that she recorded on her cellphone, you don't see any of that. And, of course, DHS has not released any video. So, based on everything that we can see in the video that we have, everything that the Department of Homeland Security is claiming here is not backed up by the video certainly that she provides.

And most importantly, it's the fact that this ICE officer pulled his -- the first thing he does, Phil, he comes out of that car and he grabs his firearm and he comes towards her. At that point, the car is stopped. She's blocked in. What is the justification here in pulling the weapon in such a way, pointing it at her face, I mean, inches from her face? And anything could've happened at that moment. And certainly there are local leaders and some of the political figures there in Virginia that are calling for investigations and accountability.

[18:10:05]

MATTINGLY: Yes. Certainly more answers needed from DHS.

Shimon Prokupecz, great reporting as always, my friend. Thank you.

PROKUPECZ: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, there is plenty of heartache in Colombia as rescuers comb through the wreckage of a devastating earthquake, but there's also hope. We'll bring you incredible rescue moments caught on camera, next.

Plus, one of the most visible members of the Trump administration is leaving the White House. We'll discuss just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Back in our Politics Lead in last night's primary results, it's not just an ideological divide in the Democratic Party, there's also the age factor. Last night, 47-year-old former Hartford, Connecticut Mayor Luke Bronin made waves by unseating handily the 78- year-old incumbent, U.S. Representative John Larson. Larson played up his nearly 30 years of experience in the House, insisting he was best positioned to deliver for Connecticut, even after he suffered a seizure during a February 2025 floor speech.

Joining us now is Luke Bronin. He's a U.S. Navy veteran, served as a senior treasury official during the Obama administration, also former mayor. Luke, I really appreciate your time.

I got to be honest, there were rumblings here.

[18:15:00]

Obviously, you had some, some big name surrogates and endorsements over the course of this campaign. But it's the scale, I think, of the final result that I've been kind of slack-jawed by throughout the course of the day. What do you -- what message do you think it sends?

LUKE BRONIN (D), CONNECTICUT CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I think it sends a message that Democrats recognize that we're in a different kind of moment right now, that, you know, we're in a crisis as a country. We have a president who is out of control. We've got an economy broken to most people. We need to see a Democratic Party that's bringing a whole different kind of energy to this fight right now, and that's being a lot clearer and bolder about the issues that we're fighting on, you know, stopping this -- the crazy corruption that we're seeing, and then really building an economic agenda that gets at the heart of what people are feeling every day. You know, the cost going through the roof on everything from healthcare to housing to electricity, and keep going down the list.

And I think people want to see Democrats who are able to be out there with a clear, powerful message, and the energy to carry it everywhere they can and build a different kind of movement.

MATTINGLY: Do you see this, or do you think this should be kind of a blaring warning sign to an older generation of Democratic politicians, not just in the House or in the Senate, but also who may be considering a run in 2028 for president?

BRONIN: Look, what I'd say is I just think we'd be a stronger party if more of our leaders recognized that part of leadership is knowing when it's time to pass the torch. That, you know, we -- and that we can't be for democracy and not for competition. What produces a stronger party is one where people compete to see who's the most effective at building a coalition, building a movement, carrying the message. I think we've got to be a lot more open to change, a lot more open to new voices. And it's really important that we recognize that, you know, when everything is at stake and when things aren't working, we cannot just keep doing the same thing.

MATTINGLY: You were criticized during the campaign from Congressman Larson for taking donations from, what he said, quote, dark money billionaires, being too pro-corporate. If you win, and you are from a very blue district, you'll be received by progressive Democrats who are also having their own successes in these primary campaigns. How do you fit within the party right now? I think everybody's trying to identify everybody in a very specific camp or column within the party in this fight that's playing out right now. Where do you kind of see yourself?

BRONIN: Well, so let me just say, I did not take a single dollar of corporate PAC money in this race, and I've pledged not to take corporate PAC money in any future race. And my whole career has been about fighting for fairness. You know, in the Obama administration, I was part of the team that helped to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to protect Americans from getting ripped off. And in Afghanistan, I served on the anti-corruption task force. And then for eight years as mayor, you know, I fought to lift up a struggling city that a lot of people had given up on.

And I think that the heart of the issue right now is we all know we need to make big changes on, again, everything, from healthcare to fixing our tax code so billionaires are actually paying what they owe to you know, making it possible for young people and seniors alike to actually afford a place to live. But if we're going to do any of those things, we have to build a Democratic Party that is strong enough to do it, and that means a party that recognizes that we need a lot more Democrats out there making the case, not just preaching to the choir, going anywhere, everywhere, every single day, to build a coalition and build a movement.

MATTINGLY: Do you think that by the time the midterms play out, there will be a unified party? Like we all love covering the battles and the intraparty warfare. There's certainly been plenty to cover over the course of the last couple of years. Do you feel like there will reach an outcome where the party coalesces when this is all over?

BRONIN: You know, and people keep asking me, you know, how are we going to be a party of unity? I'm going to be really concerned about party unity this time in 2028, because we better all be 100 percent behind whoever our nominee is. But right now, I'm more worried about party energy. I'm worried about the fact that there are so many young Americans who have just given up on our politics. There are so many people who used to vote for Democrats, and right now don't believe that the party is focused on the issues that they feel in their lives right now. And so I want to see a big competition of visions and voices battling it out and finding those areas where we can push aggressively to make changes now.

And, again, to me, the immediate stuff is we've got to stop the damage that this president is doing. You know, from the reckless war that's driven up costs to the crazy tariffs that have driven up costs, and go down the list. And then we need to lay out an agenda that we are building a movement to support on everything from healthcare to housing, to build a fairer tax code, and not be so cautious and shy. We need to get out there on offense and push those ideas with clarity, with courage.

And I think if we do that, then we're going to be able to do more than just ride the backlash to Trump this cycle. I think we're going to be able to win the White House and the Senate and the House in 2028. But the key thing right now is we've got to bring a whole new energy to that fight, and I'm fine with a lot of different voices as part of that effort.

MATTINGLY: For anyone who wasn't aware prior to last night, I think everybody's pretty aware now.

[18:20:02]

Connecticut Democrat for candidate for the House of Representatives, Luke Bronin, congrats on the big victory, thanks so much for your time.

BRONIN: Thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Turning now to our World Lead, as rescuers comb through collapsed buildings more than two days after Colombia's deadly and devastating earthquake, anything, even finding the little kitten you see there alive in the rubble, bringing cheers and renewed hope.

Today, CNN's David Culver and his team made it to one of Colombia's major cities, Cali, where hope is one of the many things desperately needed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're headed now to a southern part of Cali where we're told there are active rescues underway, including just a few hours ago where someone was pulled out alive.

You can hear people still right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Yes.

CULVER: Well, they won't -- let's have a -- okay, he said you can still hear people, so let's go see.

They just handed us masks. They said, please put these on because they're worried about asbestos and anything else that's in the air that we're also seeing some of this dust.

We've been told what we're looking at here was an apartment building that was about four storeys high. You can see the rooftop pool, the blue tiles over there, now about a storey-and-a-half up in the air. So, it has totally pancaked down, collapsing into the basement of this apartment complex.

Looking into the collapsed rubble, Harold Valencia recognizes something.

You can see your dad's mattress. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

CULVER: Which is that one that he's showing right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's right there.

CULVER: Have you heard anything? Is there any movement or any --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No? I've been here for two days, and we don't hear anything there.

Harold flew in Tuesday from his home in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and he isn't the only one here doubling as a first responder.

And how old are the two people still missing, roughly?

JAVIER TABARES, VOLUNTEER: Late teens.

CULVER: Teenagers?

TABARES: Late teens, yes.

CULVER: And a brother and sister?

TABARES: Yes.

CULVER: How do you even process this moment? Like how --

TABARES: There's no way to process it, like you don't process it. You're just here dealing. Like if you're home, maybe you may have to find some way to cope with it. Like there's no time to process this type of stuff, like you have to be here helping. Otherwise, there's nothing else to do.

CULVER: Here in Cali, Colombia's third-largest city, with a population roughly the size of Houston, Texas, even folks working at hotels, or taxi drivers even, are splitting their day between their actual work and helping with rescues.

Motivated by scenes like this, a man handing off a baby boy from within the rubble, dust-covered and struggling to breathe, but he's alive.

You saw the baby's little head. He's not a first responder. He works in a bank, and he was just around the corner, and rushed down this street where the collapse and rescue is still underway for several others. And he says he goes there, and he hears (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). What did the voice say?

The voice says, I'm here, I'm here with a baby. Brian and several others immediately go in. Over the course of three to five minutes, they're able to pull the baby out.

How's the baby right now?

Stable condition right now, as well as the dad. The only thing is the mom is still missing.

More than 130 miles north, we watched on for hours as this close-knit community dragged huge slabs of concrete from this collapsed apartment in Pereira.

All of these folks are volunteers.

Late in the evening, their hands reached a 32-year-old woman clinging to life. Her stepmother held vigil there for more than 24 hours. She tells us her daughter suffered heart failure and shattered nearly every bone imaginable, but says she's hopeful she'll make it.

From that same wreckage, someone's beloved pet also pulled out alive.

Back here in Cali, this moment, reality briefly surfaces for Harold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to get my dad home where he belongs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: And, Phil, you could tell in that moment, Harold had to compartmentalize and not fall into the emotions and the reality of what he was looking at, but had to revert back to just work mode and figure out how he could do anything really to try to move some of that wreckage and rubble to get to his dad.

It's interesting, when I first saw him, I was confused when folks said that he doesn't even live here. In fact, he lives 30, 40 minutes from me in South Florida. But he flew in, like so many others from the States who have family here, and he looked from far away as though he worked, part of the first responders in a work crew. He was directing traffic and trying to tell crews to go from one side to the other. And yet he told me afterwards that's just the reality. You come in and you have to do it yourself sometimes.

[18:25:00]

MATTINGLY: Extraordinary stories in the midst of complete tragedy. David Culver, you and your team are doing remarkable work from Colombia, thank you very much.

So, what happens when your artificial intelligence agent stops taking direction or goes rogue? I'll ask the godfather of A.I. about the pitfalls next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Back now with our series AI: Friend or Foe?, where we discuss the benefits and risks of this emerging technology. From writing emails to hacking databases, artificial intelligence is capable of a frighteningly wide array of tasks. So, what do we do when it stops taking directions?

Nobel Prize winning computer scientist and the man often called the godfather of A.I., Geoffrey Hinton, has a few ideas. Dr. Hinton joins us now. Dr. Hinton, I really appreciate your time.

[18:30:01]

I have to start off with what we've seen just over the course of the last couple weeks, three cases of rogue A.I. agents, OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking into other organizations' systems. I'm curious if you think this is kind of the first real indication of the loss of control concern you've warned about in the past, or if this is something less problematic?

GEOFFREY HINTON, NOBEL PRIZE-WINNING COMPUTER SCIENTIST: It's actually a combination of two things. The first thing is that the companies were a bit sloppy in containing the A.I.s. So, that wasn't to do with the A.I.s. That was the companies being sloppy and having security flaws that the A.I.s could discover. But the second thing is that once these A.I.s had escaped from their chat -- their sandboxes, they had intentions. They were built to try and do things, to try and hack into systems, and they intended to do that, and they achieved that.

So, the real scary bit of this is that A.I. agents try and do things, they have intentions to do things, and if you have A.I. agents out there, they won't always do exactly what you expect.

MATTINGLY: You've been very far out in front about warning, about where this could all go, going as far as to say, quote, 10 to 20 percent chance that artificial intelligence will wipe out humanity. Have you seen anything that has made you pull back on the kind of worst-case scenarios here, or is it the opposite?

HINTON: Let me first say that anybody who estimates probabilities like that is really just making a wild guess. They're just giving you their gut feeling. There's no real, good evidence to base that on because it's all so new. We've never dealt with anything like this before. So, that's just a sort of gut feeling.

One thing that has made me a little less scared in the last year or so is the idea that we might be able to create A.I.s that care for us more than they care for themselves. So, there's really two ways to survive. One is to retain power over the A.I.s, and I think that's going to be very difficult when they're much smarter than us. They'll find it easy to escape our control. The other is to build them so they care more about us than they do about themselves.

We still have control. We could still do that. But the big companies are focusing on making them smarter and smarter without worrying about all the other aspects of a being. You don't want beings that are just smart. If you're going to coexist with them on this planet, you want beings that care about you, too.

MATTINGLY: It would seem that balance runs headlong into what has become a geopolitical race on some level between the U.S. and China, where companies are advocating for moving faster and further on the grounds that the U.S. needs to have this before anybody else can, or China needs to have this before anybody else can. How do you balance that given the competition that exists? HINTON: I think this idea of dominance just won't work when we eventually develop A.I.s that are much smarter than us. At present, the big companies would like to kind of sell you the idea we're going to have A.I. assistants that are going to be extremely smart and are always going to be under our control. I'm not convinced that's feasible. I think it's much more likely if we try and do that, they will escape control, and this is one of the first examples of that.

I think we'd be much better off saying, we're creating a new kind of being, a kind of being that's never been before, but this isn't created by evolution. It's not created by competition. Well, it is now between the big companies, but it doesn't have to be. We could create this new kind of being to be very concerned about our welfare. We're still in charge, and that's what we should be focusing on.

MATTINGLY: The responsibility for the creation of that kind of being, you know, the federal government isn't exactly known for being on the cutting edge of technology. Just listen to this interview with Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina when he was asked about ChatGPT. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No ChatGPT, no Claude for you?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Believe it or not, I didn't know what that was until about a week ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which one?

CLYBURN: ChatGPT or whatever it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't know until a week ago? Wow, I'm jealous. You've kind of been living in a bubble.

CLYBURN: that may sound strange to you. I don't know -- I didn't know what that was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: He went on to say that he could confidently legislate the issues because of his staff. I think the question is whether it's over at the White House where they're having these meetings, whether it's lawmakers on Capitol Hill, do you think leaders, public officials, are capable of responsibly handling the threat that could be posed here?

HINTON: It depends on which public officials. So, I think people like Barack Obama might well be capable of handling this.

MATTINGLY: He's not in office right now. I guess, I would -- the way I'd follow up with that is current public officials. Do you feel like the current government is capable of handling this?

[18:35:00]

HINTON: The current U.S. government I don't think is capable of handling it. I think it'll make a mess of it, as it did with so many other things.

MATTINGLY: It is certainly something we'll be watching going forward. Your input and expertise on this is always invaluable. Dr. Geoffrey Hinton, I really appreciate your time, sir. Thank you very much.

HINTON: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: The breaking news from the White House this evening, Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt is leaving, what she says the reason is. Plus, President Trump's response, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our Politics Lead, more on the breaking news after President Trump announced that Karoline Leavitt will be stepping down as White House Press Secretary at the end of the month. Just moments ago, Karoline Leavitt posted, quote, I have felt in my heart that I cannot be the best mom my two young children deserve while devoting the constant time, energy, and attention required of the White House Press Secretary.

I want to jump straight into the panel. Shermichael, President Trump says Leavitt will become one of his out- top outside advisers, says she's been one of the best White House Press Secretaries in the history of the office. What's your reaction to this?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, she's been very loyal to the president and still did the job during pregnancy, came back early, and, look, she's going to spend time focusing on being a mom.

[18:40:00]

And we all know here as fathers and husbands, I mean, that's a full- time darn job.

And so I salute her, I give her kudos, and wish her and her husband the best of luck with their two kids and the new baby.

MATTINGLY: I mean, the brevity of the time she was out before coming back in the midst of that job, which is insane.

SINGLETON: It's almost like she was not gone.

MATTINGLY: No. And by all accounts, she was still getting phone calls throughout the entire thing from the president.

Mo, she did take a swipe, saying, always on message at Democrats, quote, our country is facing an existential threat from an increasingly extremist Democratic Party that seeks to destroy everything great about America. My fight is entering a new phase, but it's far from over.

MO ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AND PUBLIC SERVICE: Yes, I don't think this is the last we're going to hear from her. And you're right, she is always on message. She is one of his most dependable attack dogs for better and for worse.

You know, I think she leaves behind a complicated legacy at the White House, but a lot of that is because of her boss, right? The job of the White House press secretary traditionally has been to be an advocate for the president, but also to be an advocate for the press. I think she did one half of that incredibly loyally, and the other half probably left a lot to be desired.

MATTINGLY: And to her credit, she did the one half that she did very well, better than I think most people could have imagined and better than most people have ever been able to do prior.

SINGLETON: And remember, you think about the first administration, she never had an issue with the president. It was never a point of contention, at least not publicly that we're aware of. She was always on message, really advocating for and defending the president in what I would argue were some very challenging moments that I think a lot of people would have struggled with, again, going back to the first term in defending certain policies and certain issues. So, it doesn't surprise me for the president to say, even on the outside, she will be an unofficial adviser.

MATTINGLY: Yes. There's no question she will stay in that key adviser group.

All right, I want to turn to last night's results in South Carolina. Schermichael, Senator Darline Graham notched a first place finish in the special election to replace her late brother, Lindsey Graham, with President Trump's endorsement, but it wasn't enough to avoid a runoff against Republican Congressman Ralph Norman.

Today, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott endorsed Graham. Fellow South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley is behind Norman, who I believe endorsed her during the presidential campaign in '24. How does this end?

SINGLETON: Oh, I think she absolutely wins. I mean, the president's endorsement in a lot of red states is pretty much all you need. He's stated he's going to go down there and at least campaign with her once. I think that gets her across the finish line.

Look, Norman is very popular in the state, an old Tea Party guy, has been around for a very long time, but Nikki Haley's endorsement is not going to help him in a state like South Carolina when you consider where she stands among many of the rank and file Republican voters, and so this is going to be a shoo-in for her.

MATTINGLY: Mo, I think it's been interesting watching and listening Darline Graham try and kind of learn on the fly. Like she very clearly is well-respected, people know her well around Washington, but like this is brand new and has a pretty short resume. Here's what she said last night about kind of this path ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DARLINE GRAHAM (R-SC): I've been accused of not being a politician. Guilty as charged. And I've already passed a major piece of bipartisan legislation through the Senate that meant so much to Lindsey, the Russia sanctions bill. Some politicians never get a major piece of their legislation passed. So, I've already accomplished more in a few weeks than many do in decades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I'm not a politician, and I get stuff done. That's a fairly decent message on the trail.

ELLEITHEE: The question is, how believable will it be to South Carolina voters? I mean, she comes from a political legacy. She has the full support of the president, and she managed to get, what, 30- some-plus percent of the vote?

MATTINGLY: Yes.

ELLEITHEE: That's it, in the first round. It's not to say she won't win the nomination or go on to win the Senate seat, but I think that says a lot of South Carolina Republicans are saying, let's pump the brakes here. Let's not have a coronation. Let's see what you got, because we may not be sold yet.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I was surprised the field didn't clear, and then I realized it's South Carolina. A lot of big names came in, so we'll have to see what happens.

All right, Mo, I got to ask you, I have been fascinated by the kind of turn from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez over the weekend on Woke 1 and how that was crazy. I'm paraphrasing here. Zohran Mamdani was asked about that comment. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D-NEW YORK CITY, NY): Sometimes what you believe can change. It can develop, it can grow.

I've made very clear that I do not believe in defunding the police, that I will not be defunding the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It's an interesting rhetorical turn that I think addresses what a lot of people have been very concerned about. I think Bakari Sellers told me yesterday, I just want Democrats to stop being weird, which I think kind of tracks with a lot of the things that, that people are trying to get away from in Woke 1. Do you think this works, this pivot?

ELLEITHEE: Look, I've long believed that, you know, one of the biggest attacks you can level against someone in politics is how they were a flip-flopper.

[18:45:00]

I've always believed voters don't mind that as long as you flip to the right place, as long as you flop to the right place.

SINGLETON: I agree with that.

ELLEITHEE: And, you know, people do evolve. I mean, President Trump used to be pro-choice, you know, a long time ago. And Republican voters who are anti-choice forgave him for that.

So, I think, you know, AOC is right. And I think Bakari was right. People right now are desperate for change. This isn't an ideological battle. They're desperate for change. They don't like the current administration. They don't like the direction the country is headed in.

So, they're willing to find another change agent as long as that change agent isn't weird, isn't strange. And so, taking some of those past comments that some of these candidates like Francesca Hong made and saying, "I, you know, mea culpa, I have moved on. That is not me now" is the only thing that they can do.

SINGLETON: And this is strategically, this is very interesting to me to see how some of these very progressive candidates are realizing that more extreme positions just don't resonate beyond their ardent base, and that they need to moderate on just enough issues to pull in enough moderates to be successful. That actually kind of worries me a little bit, because that takes away from our ability to continue to hammer home the message of extremism, extremism, which absolutely resonates with independent voters and for them to be quasi normal.

It does, I would argue, give them the potential to be a little more competitive in tighter races. And so that's a little homework for me and other Republican strategists to figure out.

MATTINGLY: I mean, AOC just dropping that dime in the middle of a Sunday show interview, I was like, oh, a bit surprised by that. Not bad at what she does.

Mo, Shermichael, appreciate you guys. Thank you very much.

Well, up next, call it a variation on the theme of unintended consequences, how President Trump's national security tariffs are creating sour notes for horn players. We'll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:32]

MATTINGLY: It's time for our latest installment in our Business Leaders series, where we look at the impact of President Trump's tariffs on U.S. businesses and consumers. Tonight's episode is especially timely for students getting ready for marching band season or people in community orchestras, or anyone who likes to, I don't know, toot their own horn. Citing a national security threat, the Trump administration put stiff tariffs on certain metals, including the metals used to make brass musical instruments.

John Mlynczak, the president and CEO of the National Association of Music Merchants, is here to -- we'll have a brief moment of levity -- sound the horn on what's going on.

And I say brief because this is this is really serious. And we've had a lot of discussions about tariffs, the pros, the cons, who the protectionist idea works for and who it doesn't. Just to start, how will these new tariffs impact the price of trumpets, tubas, trombones, French horns?

JOHN MLYNCZAK, PRESIDENT & CEO, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MUSIC MERCHANTS: Yeah. Thank you so much, Phil.

We can say the national association of music merchants tracks this very, very closely. As a former trumpet player myself, I'm happy to toot this horn. I can say definitively that these. The rule, the Section 232 rule that says 25 percent tariffs. That's being applied here or proposed will absolutely harm the American students, the American businesses and the American instrument makers that supply the 25 million students who participate in music.

You talked about marching band and back to school. We have 25 million students in this country that are participating in music making this school year. Already in the past 18 months, we've had a total 27 percent decline in instruments imports, 27 percent less instruments, and that's on an average 13 percent tariff paid.

Can you imagine another 25 percent specifically targeting brass instruments will do. It's been devastating for our industry for the past 18 months, and we really do not see a national security risk with trumpets.

MATTINGLY: I want to dig a little bit more into kind of what's happening with the industry. This isn't just about musicians and students. This is about manufacturers and retailers. Talk to us a little bit more about what this means for them.

MLYNCZAK: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up because it takes a -- it takes a village to teach a student music and for a musician. And so, there is an ecosystem. This isn't just about the manufacturer that uses a global supply chain to make an instrument. That's who pays the tariff. The American company that is paying the tariff.

But it's about the retailer that they send that instrument to, the repair tech, the music teacher. These tariffs are spread around the industry. So, this has impacted stock and retail. This has impacted prices across the board.

It impacts the ability for a family and a student to decide. I want to play a musical instrument and its pricing families out. And that's really, really concerning because we have one of the greatest parts of America is our musical heritage. We lead the world in musical instruments. We lead the world in music education. There is no other country that even comes close to the music education system that we have in the United States.

You go anywhere in the world, you hear American music, and that's all supplied through these manufacturer, retail network. We lead the world in American music making and American music education, and we've done it forever with imported instruments. I mean, how many renaissance paintings have you ever seen with a trumpet and angel playing a trumpet?

These instruments have been around for longer than the United States has been a country. We lead the world in music making with imported instruments. And so now to just change the price of them suddenly impacts the Americans who have made this music so popular.

MATTINGLY: Just in the last 20 seconds we have left, if you could speak directly to the president, what would you tell him?

MLYNCZAK: American music making, the students and musicians that play music are a vital part of American culture. American businesses, American workers of supply in these instruments. And it is absolutely contributing to the 4.2 percent of our GDP is arts and cultural impact, and that's from the United States Bureau of Statistics.

So, please do not tear up these instruments, because actually, when we think about America first, America's first in music making. And so let us continue to be first on imposed by additional burden of tariffs.

MATTINGLY: John Mlynczak, president and CEO of the National Association of Music Merchants, really appreciate your time sharing your story. Thanks so much

MLYNCZAK: Thank you so much.

MATTINGLY: One of the greatest to ever play the game announcing his retirement. The announcement tonight from Russell Westbrook, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:09]

MATTINGLY: Our last leads start in our national lead. Two pilots we're killed when a military attack helicopter crashed into a central Texas field earlier today. The crash also sparked a wildfire, forcing residents in the area to evacuate. The crew was based at Fort Hood. An investigation is underway.

In our out of this world lead, a longtime NASA astronaut who spent a cumulative 549 days in space is leaving the agency. Mike Fincke and his crew had to return from the International Space Station early after he experienced a medical emergency in January. He told "The Associated Press" he couldn't talk for roughly 20 minutes and is still not sure what caused it. Fincke hasn't announced his next move.

And in our sports lead, the NBA king of triple doubles, himself walking away from the sport. Former MVP Russell Westbrook retiring after 18 seasons. He was electric, came into the league, number four in the 2008 NBA draft. The NBA all-star played for seven teams and holds the NBA record for most triple doubles with 209. Here's to a well-deserved retirement.

You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever missed an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.