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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Michael Cohen Says Trump Relationship is Being Resuscitated; FBI Raids Former Rep. Eric Swalwell's Home; Woman Charged in ISIS- Inspired Terror Plot. Michael Cohen Interviews Trump Years After Dramatic Falling-Out; Haitian Community In Maryland Paralyzed As Trump Admin Ends TPS. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 20, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

[18:00:00]

A racist, a conman, a Cheeto-dusted cartoon villain, Michael Cohen used all of those words to describe Donald Trump, and now Cohen tells me his relationship with Trump is, quote, being resuscitated. And in fact, the two sat down for a lengthy radio interview for Cohen's radio show, and we're standing by for the first clip to be released any moment.

Plus, federal agents seizing electronic devices from former Congressman Eric Swalwell before raiding his home in Washington, D.C. Sources say this is part of an ongoing investigation connected to allegations that Swalwell committed sexual assault. A former top FBI official is here to weigh in.

Also, breaking news out of New York where a woman has been charged in connection with a plot to set off a bomb in the New York State Capitol. Officials say the 35-year-old was radicalized online and inspired by ISIS. What we're learning about her arrest ahead.

And the Artemis II crew captured the world's attention as they slingshotted around the moon, and now the Artemis III crew is getting ready for a mission that's never been attempted before. And tonight, we're lucky enough to be joined by Artemis III Commander Randy Bresnik for a look inside his training and an update on when they're set to launch.

The Lead tonight, from bitter enemies to being besties again? It might be a stretch, but it's certainly not impossible considering one of them once claimed he would take a bullet for the other. Spoiler, it wasn't President Trump that said that. But Trump did sit down today for a taped recorded phone interview with the former fixer that he once called a rat and a liar. That's Michael Cohen. Yes, the Michael Cohen who nearly eight years ago pleaded guilty and implicated Trump in that hush money scheme with porn actress and director Stormy Daniels, the man who testified in a 2019 Congressional hearing accusing Trump of being racist, a conman, and a cheat, and the man who, after serving prison time, wrote two tell-all books, one titled "Disloyal", the other titled "Revenge".

This is what Michael Cohen told me a few minutes ago about how his interview with the president went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: We forgave. And not because the past didn't happen, not because the scars disappeared, not because every disagreement suddenly becomes irrelevant, and certainly not because I have forgotten anything.

TAPPER: Right.

COHEN: I have not. But remember this, forgiveness does not require amnesia. It requires the courage to stop allowing yesterday to dictate tomorrow.

TAPPER: How would you describe your relationship with the president right now?

COHEN: It's being resuscitated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This hour, we're expecting to get the first clip from Trump -- from Cohen's 40-minute interview with President Trump, their first open public conversation since the collapse of their professional and personal relationship more than eight years ago.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. Alayna, why was it important for Trump to talk to Cohen now considering everything that the president is going through?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's surprising, and I was surprised when I saw that Michael Cohen had landed an interview with the president.

Look, there's a number of things I'd point out. One is that we've seen the president have rifts with people in the past, and then you know, smooth those over. So, it happened with Corey Lewandowski, it happened with his former adviser, David Bossie.

But this is different. Michael Cohen is different because he is the one -- he was the star witness in the testimony against the president back in 2024 around that Manhattan trial, which Trump was later convicted on for 34 counts of falsifying business records related to those hush money payments to Stormy Daniels.

But I will say this, and, you know, there are some people in the White House and within the president's orbit, Jake, that recognize that having these two men kind of smooth over their relationship could help the president, who is actively trying to appeal that 2024 conviction.

Now, again, not all people in the White House or in the president's orbit, but at least some believe that could help. I'd remind you that Cohen has said publicly now, and he said this to the president, that he believes people like Letitia James and other prosecutors in New York perhaps coerced him to give that testimony against the president. So, that's a part of this.

What I find interesting as well is what's in it for Cohen, because, obviously, these two have not, you know, sparsed words when it come to a lot of the criticism that they exchange back and forth with each other, including on Cohen's own radio show, and he's made money off of that. But I do think they have a very long history, and Cohen, I think, also misses, in some respects, being in Trump's orbit, specifically now that he is president once again.

But a question I have is, would this reconciliation be happening if President Donald Trump did not win re-election? It's a question I'm not sure Cohen would answer now or if we'll ever actually get an honest answer to, but curious what that would be. And I'm also very curious to see how the president is, what his vibe is like in this interview with Cohen, because, again, there's a lot of history here. There's a lot of people who surround the president who are close to him, his most loyal advisers here in the West Wing, who still have a lot of animus toward Cohen for what he did, that a lot of people who were with the president when he was going through that trial.

[18:05:01]

So, I'm curious to see what the vibe will be on air when this interview airs.

TAPPER: Yes, and we should note that Cohen did say, when I talked to him a few minutes ago, that he had submitted a pardon application to President Trump. It does seem not incidental.

Alayna Treene at the White House, thanks so much.

We're going to bring you that first clip from Michael Cohen's WABC interview with Trump shortly. But, first, I want to bring in Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

So, there's 75 days until the midterms. Americans are still struggling with high grocery bills, gas prices, housing. They largely do not support the war in Iran. And yet we're about to hear six months on that next week. Trump's latest approval rating, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos poll, is about 33 percent. Do you wish the president was out there talking more about Americans' biggest concerns in terms of affordability?

REP. MIKE FLOOD (R-NE): Well, we certainly are. I was the architect in large part of the House version for the housing affordability law that is now in effect, and we're hearing from manufactured home builders that are talking about increasing production, hiring more folks. I have a steel mill in my hometown of Norfolk, Nebraska, ran into a Vollcraft employee the other day. He said, we couldn't be busier. America is booming again, and, yes, it's going to take a little time, but in the big picture, the tax cuts that we passed last year are having an effect, $10,300 on average in the pocket of Nebraskans. That's a win, and we need to get that message out.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, polls indicate that they don't -- the voters overwhelmingly do not agree with your assessment of the economy, and I will note that that housing bill that you helped write to help people afford homes, President Trump didn't sign it. It became law without his signature.

I mean, there was -- sometimes I look at what he's doing in terms of how much he's talking about construction projects and the war and not talking about the issues that you're talking about, no tax on tips, et cetera, and I think it's almost as if he's trying to lose the midterms for Republicans.

FLOOD: Well, listen, I can only control myself. And, you know, inside that working families tax cut bill last year, we increased the child tax care exemption up to $2,000, and we also adjusted it to inflation so it will not lose value.

President Trump and his White House worked hand in glove with both the House and the Senate on that housing package. The fact that he didn't sign it yet it still became law was more of an effort, I think, on his part to make sure we have election integrity in November.

You know, in Nebraska, our elections are safe, but when you've got 6,000 people on the rolls in New Jersey that don't belong there, you've got a lady out in California that registered her dog to vote, there's a lot of Americans that have issues with that, and I don't think showing an I.D. is too much to ask, and I think that's common sense.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the U.S. hitting $40 trillion in debt. This is how Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent reacted earlier today when asked on how the U.S. can reverse this horrific trend. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: The $40 trillion is a big number. It is smaller when we look at the publicly traded amount because our Social Security funds and other government entities hold a substantial amount. And what we're going to do, we're going to have to grow our way out of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You sit on the House Financial Services Committee. Do you support the idea of having to grow the way out of the U.S. national debt, or are there more drastic steps that need to be taken?

FLOOD: Well, last year, we cut $2 trillion out of federal spending through Medicaid reform and fraud. We also had no Democrat support doing that. And I think it's somewhat ironic that the Democrats are saying, wait a second, the debt, the debt, the debt. Well, they opposed us at every corner on every cut that we ultimately made. Even Jodey Arrington, House Budget chairman, would tell you it's going to take a combination of restricted federal spending and GDP growth.

And you're not going to get to GDP growth without energy independence, without a building boom in America, without onshoring manufacturing, building homes and bringing down the cost of housing. All of that's in motion. So, when you pair that with what we did last year and we go forward, we are going to make progress on this.

Hitting $40 trillion should not please anybody, Republican, Democrat, or independent. We didn't get into it overnight. We're not going to get out of it overnight.

TAPPER: Right. But President Trump has been the president for about 25 percent of this $40 trillion. Republicans control the White House, the House, the Senate. The country's on track to hit the debt limit that Republicans raised last summer by 2027. Why isn't your party more focused on what's clearly going to be a catastrophe for our children's futures and frankly for generations to come? I'm sure I don't need to tell you how much of our federal budget goes to just pay down the interest of the debt.

[18:10:02]

That might be -- that's one of the, if not the biggest part of the pie for our federal budget.

FLOOD: Well, to your point, we're spending now more paying the interest than we are in our national defense at current budget levels. The president is focused on this.

Have you ever met Russ Vought? I mean, that guy, there isn't anything he wouldn't cut. He is the head of the Office of Management and Budget. And when we were putting together Reconciliation 3.0 in the White House, in the West Wing, he shared with us data showing what our spending restraint has done under this president compared to his last term in office. So, I can get that data for you. I think the American people should see it.

And, frankly, we're the only party concerned about that. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and all the Democrats went wild during COVID. They went wild with the spending. They had this Green New Deal that ended up costing us a lot of money. We cut most of that last year. We made changes that were politically difficult, but they were necessary. And if we're going to get a lecture from Democrats, the lecture should start with them telling us where are they going to cut.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska, thanks so much, sir. I appreciate it.

Federal agents seizing electronic devices and raiding the home of former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. What we're learning about the multiple investigations into the former congressman and who's been contacted by the FBI.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, the FBI has arrested and charged a woman whom they say was plotting to attack the New York State Capitol building in Albany.

In the criminal complaint, the bureau says 35-year-old Jessica Bowie pledged allegiance to ISIS and began planning the attack last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN SARONE, FIRST ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, NORTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Bowie had pointed to -- had plotted to use an explosive device to attack the New York State Capitol and the New York State senators.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Authorities released these images, which they claim show Bowie at a Home Depot purchasing several of the required materials to build the explosive herself, and photos they say showing Bowie conducting surveillance at the New York State Capitol at least five times, taking dozens of photos.

Joining us now, former Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe. Andrew, how did they figure this out? How did this arrest come to happen?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Jake. It seems from the complaint that the FBI agents on the Joint Terrorism Task Force first became aware of Bowie through some postings that she was making on social media.

She had numerous accounts across several platforms, and in several of those accounts, you know, many were closed or shut down by the providers for violating terms of service. But in the ones that were still up, she was making comments about ISIS and making comments about praising the people who are responsible for the September 11th attack in New York and on the Pentagon.

So, all that sort of extremist rhetoric seems to be what drew the FBI to Ms. Bowie in the first place. And then it was the time-honored tale of introducing an undercover employee who was able to kind of, engage her in conversation and find out exactly what she was up to.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the ongoing federal investigation into the sexual assault allegations against former Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell. Sources tell CNN that the FBI searched Swalwell's D.C. home on Sunday and seized his electronic devices at the San Francisco Airport on Saturday. What do you think federal agents are looking for at his home?

MCCABE: Yes, it's a really interesting question here Jake, because, quite frankly, this is not typically the kind of investigation that the FBI gets involved in. Investigations that involve allegations of sexual assault or sexual misconduct are typically handled at the state or local level, and specifically in the vicinity where the activity allegedly took place.

So, having an FBI investigation of this is a little odd. We've heard that it may be based on a theory of essentially abuse of power, a civil rights offense, in which someone who, acting with the color of law, denies someone else their constitutional right.

So, if that's what they're looking for, and we haven't seen the search warrants yet, it's likely the evidence that they are going after, on both the cell phones and in the residence, is evidence of communications and evidence of contact between Mr. Swalwell and some of these victims, things like photographs.

We know several of the victims have alleged that he sent them inappropriate photographs. They're trying to substantiate some of those interactions. And then, of course, things that he might have said in text messages, email messages, all kinds of kind of association evidence between Swalwell and his alleged victims.

TAPPER: But what would he have had to have said in order for this to become a federal case if it's denying somebody their civil rights through abuse of power? What would those text messages or photographs have to show?

MCCABE: So, you know, this is a really novel application of that law, I think, to this set of facts. One of the things that it would require is that Swalwell was basically acting or purporting to act within the scope of his official duties at the times that he engaged in this conduct.

So, if I'm a federal investigator and I'm looking for evidence of that, I want to look to comments by Mr. Swalwell to these people that were responsible for having them travel to meet him, having -- you know, arranging meetings or even social events in which they would be together in the same place at the same time that later turned into alleged attacks.

[18:20:01]

So, they have a tall hill to climb here in any case, because I think proving that a sexual assault was within the scope of his official duties or that he was purporting it was is going to take some very direct and serious evidence, essentially tying his job to those attacks. And, you know, it's not clear to me what would satisfy that at this point.

TAPPER: Andrew McCabe, thanks so much. Good to see you.

The fourth day of testimony in the Tupac trial is underway right now. CNN's teams have been following every update from inside the courtroom, and they're going to bring us up to speed next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, the attorney representing Karmelo Anthony, the Texas teenager who has been convicted of fatally stabbing a track athlete during a high school meet, is asking the new judge on the case for a new trial. Anthony argues that prosecutors did not follow through with the off-the-record agreement and that the original judge on the case, who was removed yesterday, allowed a shadow docket that kept information out of the trial.

Karmelo Anthony is now 19 years old. He was sentenced to 35 years in prison for fatally stabbing Austin Metcalf.

Also in our Law and Justice Lead, day four of testimony wrapped in the murder trial of Duane Keffe D Davis, the man accused of orchestrating the killing of Tupac Shakur. Just yesterday, the jury heard differing versions of whom Davis said killed the beloved rapper.

A former FBI agent testified that two years after the murder, Davis blamed Compton police, allegedly working for former record executive Suge Knight. But a former LAPD detective also testified and gave a different account, alleging that Davis told him that his own crew carried out the attack on Tupac.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DARYN DUPREE, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT DETECTIVE: Mr. Davis had the gun at first, but they came up on the passenger side of Suge Knight and Mr. Shakur's vehicle, so he couldn't shoot across the driver. So, he handed the gun to Dre in the backseat, Mr. Andre Smith. He was afraid to shoot. Mr. Anderson grabbed the gun and shot across Mr. Smith into Mr. Knight's car that Mr. Tupac Shakur was in with Mr. Knight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now is CNN Senior Correspondent Josh Campbell. Josh, what's happening in court right now?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it gets to exactly what you were just playing in that which version of Davis's comments are actually true. What he said before when he was saying that, no, this was corrupt police officers who were behind this killing, or him actually telling law enforcement officers that he was there that day and in the car.

And what's so powerful is, you know, we've heard up to this point from different law enforcement officers who were testifying. But right now, Jake, as you and I speak, Davis' own words are being played to the jury based on that past law enforcement interview. And what he said is exactly what the LAPD officer said there.

He says that on the night that Tupac Shakur was shot, he and his nephew and others were in a car that pulled alongside Shakur's car. He said that he had the gun, him being Davis, the person on trial. He handed that gun to his nephew, Orlando, who then fired the fatal shots that killed Tupac Shakur. Interestingly, at the time, Davis told law enforcement officers that if Tupac's car had come onto his side of the street, he himself would have done the firing. So, you have to wonder how impactful that will be on the jury. Also just in, Jake, they are now discussing, and this is really, really fascinating, that Davis is saying that it was Sean Diddy Combs, who, of course, we're now all well aware of, the disgraced media mogul who -- that Davis testifies wanted Tupac Shakur dead as well as rap producer Suge Knight, and said that Combs had actually offered up a very large bounty to have it done, saying that he was angry with past humiliation that Suge Knight had allegedly done, you know, towards Combs. That part very interesting.

We should note that we have reached out to Combs' team for additional comment. We have not yet heard back. He denied in past media interviews that he had anything to do with this killing.

TAPPER: There's always a risk for defendants to expose themselves to cross-examination. Giving these conflicting statements, what's the likelihood that Duane Davis is going to take the stand, do you think?

CAMPBELL: You know, it is still, I think, too hard to tell because there's so long left in this trial. We're talking about, you know, potentially 200 witnesses on the witness list itself. Now, most of those won't actually be testifying, but there's still several weeks to go.

And so you would imagine, we would imagine that the defense is calibrating day by day what would be the, you know, positive outcome to have that happen. Obviously, there's always great risk if Davis is then confronted on his own past statements.

One thing I will note, Jake, and, again, we're still in the first week, this is day four, but based on the questions that the jury has been asking to different witnesses, the defense is trying to create this narrative that there was shoddy police work done here with this investigation, that records weren't kept as they should have been, that law enforcement didn't follow up as they should have since this investigation has been underway. Some of the jury questions have seemed to point to just that, asking essentially, you know, why didn't the police follow up on a lot of this?

So, I mention that because if that doubt is seeded in the jury, and, remember, it only takes one to keep a conviction for, from going through here, that could be one thing that the defense is paying very close attention to. But as to your point, we'll have to wait and see whether he actually goes on the stand and answers questions himself.

TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell, thanks so much.

After years of nasty insults, Michael Cohen is telling me that his relationship with Donald Trump is, quote, being resuscitated.

[18:30:01]

The former friends turned mortal enemies just sat down for a radio interview, Cohen interviewing Trump. We're standing by for that first clip. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: The countdown to America's next moon adventure is on in our Out of This World Lead. NASA says it is extremely confident that Artemis III will launch next year, and the massive rocket could roll out as soon as November. The mission, we're told, will test critical systems and rehearse the complex rendezvous and docking operations needing for a future lunar landing.

Here to help us break it all down is Artemis III commander Randy Komrade Bresnik. Sir, good to see you as always.

NASA says it's extremely confident Artemis III will launch next year with the rocket potentially rolling out as soon as November. How does that change the way you're preparing right now, and how close does this make the mission feel?

RANDY BRESNIK, COMMANDER, NASA ARTEMIS III: Well, certainly, there's a sense of urgency, as there always is, with anything that has a, you know, very short timeline. And so, Jake, we appreciate the fact that we've got a team that has just flown the Artemis II mission very successfully just four months ago, that was completely ready to go and take our crew, who we were assigned two months ago, and get us ready for this mission that, you know, could be, you know, as early as, you know, ten months from now.

[18:35:08]

TAPPER: Artemis II certainly captured the country's attention, if not the world's. What do you want Artemis III to accomplish that might feel different, maybe even more consequential?

BRESNIK: Well, certainly, you know, we showed that Orion can operate in deep space, and it operated very well, and the communication systems worked. The environmental and life control systems kept the humans alive and in, you know, good spirits to be able to execute their mission. And so this time, knowing that the SLS rocket will be on its third flight and Orion on its second crewed flight, you know, the risk has already been bought down a lot, and we expect those systems to operate well.

Now, it's the -- okay, now can Blue Origin, with their New Glenn, launch the Earth orbit rendezvous, you know, lander and get it up in space so we can then launch after them and work that choreography between the two, you know, super heavy launchers to get both these spacecraft into space. And then, you know, days later when we're done rendezvous with the Blue Origin vehicle, then SpaceX is going to launch their Starship on their super heavy and send that up for us to dock with as well.

So, it's just complex choreography is, you know, allowing us to have certainly a much different training p- profile than the Artemis II crew had, where we're doing Orion training right now. We'll get -- in the fall, we'll be getting more information and more simulation capability to be able to, you know, do the flying with the lunar landers, the two of them that'll be up there. And so we are moving, and everyone is working, you know, you see as a whole of industry, whole of NASA, whole of government effort to be able to, you know, get all these vehicles in time to have this launch cadence and this accelerated schedule of Artemis, you know, all so that we can buy down risk and then do a lunar landing on the next mission.

TAPPER: It sounds intense. How often are you communicating with the Artemis II crew, if at all?

BRESNIK: Oh, we certainly had a lot of meetings and briefings with them as soon as they got back, just us and them. Hey, how did it really work? What did you really learn? What were the most important things that you take away and that you would suggest for us? And so that's been invaluable.

And then certainly now as they are, you know, doing their post-flight tour and stuff like that, we've been able to reach out at any time with any questions we have. And certainly they had did a wonderful job, along with our mission control teams and our flight control teams at kind of paving the way and so that there are some similarities and a lot of things that we do not have to go reinvent the wheel on.

We just now have to take and adapt our profile from a lunar trajectory to the Earth orbit one, and when we're doing actual rendezvous with spacecraft and using the docking camera and the LIDAR systems and the docking mechanisms to actually dock with the spacecraft this time, which is, you know, the next step beyond and buying down risks for doing that in the lunar orbit on the next mission.

TAPPER: The mission, as you noted, involves an extraordinary number of moving pieces, and it's ultimately part of NASA's push toward not just a moon landing, but Mars. How much of what you're doing now is in service to preparation for sending humans to Mars?

BRESNIK: I mean, I like to think of it as all of it is. I mean, we have to prove these capabilities, operational capabilities or technologies to be able to go land on the moon. And to me, just about everything we're doing on the moon applies to Mars. You know, not only the deep space, you know, time in deep space for the radiation hardening of our vehicles, the navigation, the communications, but actually landing on another celestial body and being able to operate there.

To me, if you're able to operate on the moon with your rovers, and your spacesuits, and your habitats, you think about the lunar rock being the most, you know, abrasive stuff that we have in our solar system because there is no atmosphere. It's just smashed, pulverized rock as if you were like taking glass bottles, smashing it, and walking on the glass. Whereas Mars, well, we know it has an atmosphere. It has dust storms. It had, you know, we think water at some point. And so the rocks tumble, the sand moves, and so that stuff is not as abrasive.

So, if the stuff that we have for mobility, and gears, and hatch seals, and things like that work on the moon, that's a whole lot of risk we have bought down for Mars. And now it is the risk of going on the long journey in deep space to Mars, landing, you know, in this place where there's some atmosphere, but not no atmosphere, landing where there's, you know, one third Earth's gravity, so one sixth Earth's gravity like there is on the moon. These are all things that are different, but shouldn't, you know, be insurmountable compared to the challenges we had just landing on the moon, our neighbor just a few days away.

TAPPER: All right, fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Commander Randy Bresnik, I appreciate it.

BRESNIK: Thank you, Jake. Take care.

TAPPER: Last hour, I spoke with Michael Cohen, the president's former fixer, who just interviewed President Trump himself regardless of their years-long feud. We're going to have the first clip from that scintillating interview coming up.

[18:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with our Politics Lead, President Trump and Michael Cohen publicly patching up their fraught relationship in a 40- minute taped phone interview. Cohen telling me in the last hour that his relationship with the president is being resuscitated. A clip of their interview just aired. Trump let it rip, blasting CNN, offering familiar talking points on Iran, and Cohen clearly deferring to his old boss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Boss, you remember when I was by your side? I literally used to analyze the polls, right? And you remember how much attention that I used to pay to that methodology? I would come in, I would say to you, oh, you know, they're claiming that you're 31 percent, that you're underwater, but I showed you that the --

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, the polls are crooked. The polls are --

COHEN: Exactly.

TRUMP: Well, the reporters, as you know, are crooked, but many of them. You have some great ones, too, but for the most part, it's really dishonest reporters.

COHEN: But the sample size is roughly --

TRUMP: When you read The New York Times, it's so dishonest, when you read these things, and they're not doing well. Look, the reason they're not doing well is because they've lost a lot of credibility.

Now, you do have great journalists. You do have great reporters also. Many people are very good, very, very good. [18:45:02]

I could name them, but by naming them, I'll leave some out. But you also have a lot of people that see how good things are -- see how good things are with this. The economy is a renaissance. There's never been anything like it.

We had the greatest economy ever, in my first term. This is going to blow it away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The panel joins us now.

Jonah Goldberg, slightly deferential, falling into familiar patterns, perhaps.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, we've got muscle memory in that regard.

Look, rarely have I been so torn about something that matters so little to me. I -- I didn't like -- I didn't have a lot of respect for Michael Cohen when he first burst on the scene as Trump's hatchet man. And I didn't have a lot of respect for him when he became a dashboard saint of the anti-Trump resistance. And now that he is in this strange limbo of, you know, will Ross and Rachel get back together for politics -- I still don't care about him.

I don't think -- I think he's -- he's a middlebrow jabroni. And, to use a phrase from your native Philadelphia.

TAPPER: I appreciate it.

GOLDBERG: And I really -- I don't know what to make of it beyond that. I think it's weird.

TAPPER: David Chalian, let's move to the midterms, 75 days until the midterms. Timing is everything. And this interview, do you think this is just another distraction? Is there any thought behind it?

It seems to me like I -- President Trump, he's talking a lot about stuff that is not on the minds of voters, a lot on the construction projects.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: A lot on the construction projects, which we know voters see as a distraction from what they believe should be the priorities. I don't know that this interview is a distraction, though it is not clear -- it is clear to me what Michael Cohen gets out of this.

TAPPER: Yeah.

CHALIAN: It is not clear to me what Donald Trump gets out of this, that that is less clear to me. But I don't think he's doing this to distract from his poor approval ratings standing. I mean, as you know, the strategy from the White House when it comes to the midterms is, as Susie Wiles said, to put Donald Trump on the ballot. They believe the only potential that they have as a way to mitigate the historic norms of midterms and any kind of blue wave that may be building, is to have him front and center. Despite his unpopularity, to try and bring out his voters without him really physically being on the ballot, and to do a total contrast with Democrats on the communism socialism thing, because they think that will instill enough fear to bring people out.

I don't know if that -- all of that is going to be successful enough to counteract the historic norms.

TAPPER: I should correct myself because I said he seems to be talking a lot about construction projects. He's also talking a lot about rallies. And here he is on WABC with Michael Cohen talking about the rallies

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRUMP: The rallies are potentially bigger than ever. I mean, if we did rallies as an example, if we did rallies now, nobody ever had rallies like this. Their potential, I think they're bigger than ever. There's a great spirit for what's going on, especially in light of what's happening with all these crazy theories and policies and lunatics that are running. You have lunatics that would destroy the country and they're being put in the Democrat party.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CHALIAN: I mean, you just heard it there. There is the contrast message that they're going to run on because it's hard to run on something that is sort of touting a success when the country sees him focused on the wrong priorities, and they think he's not -- his policies have made their economic lives harder. So, it is a smarter campaign strategy to do a full contrast.

As for rallies, I do believe we're going to see him out there a lot this fall.

TAPPER: Smart -- smarter campaign strategies, doing a lot of work.

GOLDBERG: Well, the question is, what districts does this make sense to have him do rallies in? Right? I mean, I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to me like the places where you get the best turnout for his rallies are not the districts they're worried about losing.

CHALIAN: Correct.

TAPPER: No. Exactly.

Kara, you have covered Michael Cohen for a long time. Take a listen to what Cohen told me he did regarding both the Biden and the current Trump administration that might shed some light on what's going on here.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: Prior to Trump taking office, I did have a pardon application in with President Biden. Joe Biden came and went, 12:01, I received an email that says denied. What I did is I took that same application with the same documentation, and I just rewrote the cover letter, removing the name of President Joe Biden and inserting the name President Donald Trump.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Kara, what did you make of that?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, well, Jake, that certainly may be one of the motivations that Michael Cohen has here. You know, even though he has already served his time after pleading guilty, there are some issues that come up with having a conviction under your name and some liberties that he has lost as a result of that.

One other thing -- and only Michael Cohen could really answer this -- but you look at what Trump's Justice Department has done in their prioritization of the weaponization working group, how they have gone after some of Trump's perceived enemies through investigations and indictments against New York Attorney General Letitia James and former FBI Director James Comey -- you know, those cases could show what happens to some of Trump's perceived enemies, with Michael Cohen now coming out saying that he had felt that he was pressured and coerced by the New York attorney general and the Manhattan district attorney's office to testify against Trump.

[18:50:15]

That could be a partial motivation here, although, of course, that's from Michael Cohen to say.

TAPPER: Jonah, what do you think? I mean, do you think the pardon is a lot about what's going on here? Pardon application?

GOLDBERG: I mean, I could see some sort of 4D chess theory about, you know, making a point about he actually does believe in this weaponization stuff. He's even pardoned someone who was such a thorn in his side and such a, quote/unquote, "enemy" and all that.

TAPPER: Although that prosecution happened during the Trump administration.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. I mean, look, again, it's -- I don't think it's a super plausible also to just -- on the midterms part, it doesn't really signal he cares about people like you that he's going to go and pardon maybe, which I don't think he will. Michael Cohen but I don't know. I mean, it's also strange.

TAPPER: Do you see any -- any midterm strategy here at all?

GOLDBERG: No, no.

I think on the construction stuff and all this Trump's an old guy. He wants to do stuff he's really comfortable doing. He knows how to talk about construction. He knows how to talk about rallies. He knows about to do his -- like, you might as well. It's like taking a lighter to a Skynyrd concert and shouting free bird! He wants to do free bird.

And talking about construction, talking about rallies. That's his freebird.

TAPPER: He's playing the hits. Thank you all. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, we're taking a look at how Trump and Trump's immigration crackdown is impacting families and businesses, in one Maryland town, where advocates say some people are afraid to even leave their homes

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:45]

TAPPER: And the national lead -- empty stores, vacant restaurants, abandoned children, that's what members of a Haitian community in Maryland say they've experienced since the Trump administration ended TPS, or temporary protected status for thousands of immigrants last month.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE CHARLES, OWNER, GLORY CARIBBEAN EXPRESS: Nothing. Nobody come over. Nobody buys anything.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Business for Michelle, a U.S. citizen who emigrated from Haiti has plummeted. Her customers, primarily Haitians, have gone into hiding over fear of ICE, leaving her store, which was bustling only a few weeks ago, largely dormant.

CHARLES: My freezer are empty right now. I try to cut down. I shot two freezer down because --

ALVAREZ: When did you make this decision?

CHARLES: Last week.

ALVAREZ: -- right now.

CHARLES: You just have to do what you have to do.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): In Salisbury, Maryland, around 10 percent of the population is Haitian. Now, they're the target of ICE operations.

CHARLES: We used to be, you know, together everywhere. Now, like they took my brother. You can't be like in the group three, four people. You feel like you're going to get arrested.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): The tipping point happened in late July when the Supreme Court effectively allowed the Trump administration to end temporary protected status for Haitians. A day later, Michelle's brother, who previously had TPS, was detained by ICE.

CHARLES: Well, he's my brother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's calling you from Wayne Correctional Center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello?

CHARLES: Hey, Mr. Mau.

ALVAREZ: Has anybody spoken with you in the facility?

ALVAREZ (voice-over): Maurice told us that he was asked to sign papers with the promise of money if he were to leave the U.S. Maurice, who had previously applied for a green card, was arrested by ICE at this garage, where he worked about five minutes down the road from Michelle's store.

CHARLES: That's basically where they took him.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): What was that moment like for you getting that phone call?

CHARLES: Devastating, because he's been here for more than 20 years, and then something happened like that. And he hasn't prepared for it. It's happening suddenly, everything changed.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): The economy here depends in large part on Haitians. They work at the nearby poultry plants, among other industries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like the goat meat.

ALVAREZ: Oh, really? Yeah. All right, I'm going to give it a shot.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): Restaurants once frequented by Haitians are examples of a community paralyzed.

ALVAREZ: So how have you experienced that switch? Just turning off.

DR. MARIE D. BERNARDETTE FOUCHE, FOUNDER & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SAFE HARBOR CIRCLES: I cannot find words. It's -- it's like a nightmare. I have two men, actually, who reach out asking me if I would be willing to sign the standby guardianship for their kids.

ALVAREZ: Have you gone to homes where children didn't --

FOUCHE: Yes.

ALVAREZ: Their parents didn't make it back.

FOUCHE: We had to visit them. We have to step in.

ALVAREZ: How old were they?

FOUCHE: We are talking about a four years old that was taken. We are talking about another girl. She just turned three. That was taken. NATALIE SAINT-PHARD, DIRECTOR OF OUTREACH, SAFE HARBOR CIRCLES: It's

a ripple effect when you decimate one group or you disrupt one group. Everything that that group touches also gets affected.

ALVAREZ (voice-over): That's true for Michelle. Her business and her brother's future are now uncertain.

ALVAREZ: So how are you thinking about tomorrow and the next day and the next day in this moment?

FOUCHE: We don't know what tomorrow will be tomorrow? We just put the faith on God.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALVAREZ: The Trump administration says that temporary protected status is just that, temporary. The Department of Homeland Security told CNN that Maurice had been the target of an enforcement operation after illegally entering the United States on three separate occasions. They went on to say that he does not have lawful status to stay in the country, and that, quote, "he will remain in ICE custody pending removal".

Now, DHS says that people can self-deport, but Haitians, particularly those who have been here for decades and legally living and working in the U.S., say that they have nowhere to go back to, given that their country is still grappling with unrest.

Back to you.

TAPPER: Our thanks to Priscilla Alvarez for that report.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.