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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Battle Over Trump's Name on Kennedy Center; 1,300-Plus Missing After Nepal Floods; New Details in Crash Investigation. Emergency Hearing Wraps Over Trump's Name On Kennedy Center; Report: Georgia GOP Senate Candidate's Former Staffer Posted Image Of Himself Appearing In KKK Robe, Stoking Republican Worries. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 27, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, will President Trump's name go back up on the Kennedy Center? That question was at the center of a hearing this afternoon in Washington, DC. The attorney who argued against the Trump administration in court joins me live in moments.

Plus, another naming battle, this time with a top U.S. ally, President Trump signing an executive order today to change Lake Ontario to Lake America, his latest escalation in the trade war with Canada. How will our neighbors to the north respond?

Also, more than 1,300 people, including 90 Americans, are still missing tonight after the catastrophic flashfloods in Nepal. And now there's a high risk of more flooding in the coming days. The latest on the search and rescue efforts, that's ahead.

And two air traffic controllers left work early the night a passenger plane collided with a fire truck at New York's LaGuardia Airport. That's according to a source familiar with the investigation who adds the two controllers are both on leave and could face disciplinary action. We've got all the new details tonight.

The Lead tonight, an escalating fight over the Kennedy Center. Today, a federal judge sharply questioned the Trump administration's latest bid to add Trump's name to the cultural institution as soon as September 8th. The latest case was brought by Democratic Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, a member of the Kennedy Center board, who called the renaming effort, quote, delusional.

In June, Beatty successfully sued for the removal of Trump's name from the facade. Now, Trump's team is proposing the phrase restored and renovated by in front of his name, in addition to a line endowed by the Trump Kennedy Center Fund, and renaming the plaza after Trump. So, if we're keeping track, visitors would see Trump's name three times.

Trump's team has also threatened to demolish the center if they're not allowed to shut it and renovate. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick spoke before the hearing started, insisting the only way to move forward is to, quote, entice Trump to fund the renovation by honoring him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: When you have the greatest philanthropist, the guy who's going to raise you $500 million, you just need him to agree. And whatever the terms are, since you know he is the most credible person in the world, when he says, I'm going to raise the money, you know he's going to raise the money, you need to induce him, entice him, get him to agree to wear it and do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: We start things off with CNN's Sunlen Serfaty, who is outside the Kennedy Center. Sunlen, no ruling yet. What do we know about where this goes next?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Phil. No final decision from the judge today, and really didn't show his cards one way or the other which way he would go, which means that the biggest point of contention if President Donald Trump's name could be etched into the side, and as you noted, two other places, noting that he is restoring and renovating this building, that decision still hangs in the balance this evening.

It was notable that in that nearly two-hour hearing today that the judge did press the Department of Justice lawyers repeatedly, saying, why now? Why this focus on this September 8th deadline when the administration had says they want to put his name back on the building as soon as September 8th?

Now, the DOJ lawyers argued today saying that they essentially want to acknowledge that this is President Trump's fundraising efforts, it's President Trump's strength, and they want to recognize President Trump with putting his name back up on this building, essentially giving him credit, they say, for fundraising the millions of dollars that's needed to restore this building.

Now, on the other side, we heard the plaintiffs today lay out very clearly that they believe that this move should be blocked. They say Congress intended this building to be a memorial to President Kennedy and President Kennedy alone. And they say this act would be in defiance of that order.

Now, we heard from, right after the hearing, ex-officio member and Democratic Congressman Joyce Beatty, who brought this emergency motion, who's calling for the judge to intervene. She said there still is so much left unfinished after today's hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): This is another one of his vanity projects, but it was also very clear that I don't trust him. This is the same president that told us we were going to get a remodeled, renovated ballroom, and he demolished the entire East Wing, the Rose Garden, over-budget and unfinished. Sounds like a spoiled kid not getting his way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Now it should be noted, Phil, that that courtroom today was just packed to the gills. It actually had an overflow room, lots of enhanced security. You saw the commerce secretary sitting there in the front row for the entirety of the hearing. He spoke to reporters, as you noted, ahead of time. This certainly has -- is one more chapter in this long drama over the Kennedy Center that has largely played out over the course of the summer, and really speaks to the importance that President Trump puts on this building, and certainly his legacy.

[18:05:07]

MATTINGLY: Yes. I have a lot of questions about the sound we heard from Howard Lutnick. But I think the one I would ask you, Sunlen, is like, to be clear, Trump's team first argued it was the donors who needed enticing, but now it's Trump, I guess?

SERFATY: Yes, that certainly was an interesting moment and certainly piqued my interest as well. This was an argument that the administration, the Kennedy Center board, has long been making, that they needed to have the donors enticed, the donors specifically enticed by President Trump's name on the side of the building. That was part of their core argument that they have said many times again.

But he did let that slip today. He said, look, it's, we now need to entice President Trump back to the table. Trump needs to be enticed back to pull the full weight of his fundraising efforts. So, it certainly gives a little bit away of the thinking of the administration and those closest around him to how he views this building and how this drama has really devolved and evolved over the course of the summer. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Sunlen Serfaty, never a dull moment. Thank you, my friend, great reporting.

Well, joining us now, Attorney Nathaniel Zelinsky, who represents Congresswoman Joyce Beatty. Nathaniel, how are you feeling -- just to start with, how are you feeling after the arguments today?

NATHANIEL ZELINSKY, LEGAL COUNSEL FOR REP. BEATTY: Good. I mean, it's always a good day when you're in court. We made our position very clear. We think what they're doing is unlawful. It also violates the court's order. The court was very clear, they can't do this. So, we had to go back. I wish we didn't have to, but it was a good day.

MATTINGLY: I spoke to Norm Eisen in the last hour, said this judge works fast, maybe a day or two for some type of resolution here. What do you expect?

ZELINSKY: So, Judge Cooper was clear that he might issue a TRO, a temporary restraining order, to buy himself a little more time. What's shocking here is that the Department of Justice has said that they're going to stick by this artificial September 8th deadline to put the name back on the Kennedy Center. There's no reason to. September 8th is a made-up date. They've said, we got to do it by then. Cooper said, please, can you wait a little bit? And they said, no. So, he might issue an emergency order, give himself a little more time.

MATTINGLY: What's your response to what I just asked Sunlen about the idea of Howard Lutnick saying the president needs to be enticed here?

ZELINSKY: That's not what the law is. The law is very clear. This is a memorial to John F. Kennedy. You can't sell a piece off. It can't be the Tesla Plaza. It can't be the Coke Memorial. It's the Kennedy Center. And so it doesn't matter if that's what the president wants to do. That's not the law.

And, by the way, that's not what a prudent trustee does. He's a trustee of the center because he appointed himself there. A prudent trustee doesn't say, you know what, I'm only going to fundraise for this institution if they honor me.

MATTINGLY: How does this end? And I ask that, and I don't mean it in kind of a flippant manner, but this has been going on for a long time. We are now back doing it again. Do you feel like this is going to be something that's just going to continue until either Trump wins or he's no longer in office?

ZELINSKY: No, I think the rule of law is going to prevail. I mean, yes, it's deja vu all over again. We shouldn't be having to do this, but they're violating the law, and the law's going to hold them to account.

I mean, I think what's particularly concerning are their threats, right? They said, if we don't get our way, we might have to demolish the Kennedy Center. This is a bit like someone saying, my, what a wonderful Kennedy Center you have there. Shame if something should happen to it. That, to me, is deeply concerning. It's lawless.

But I think we're going to hold them to account. Congressman Joyce Beatty's going to hold them to account. My colleagues and I at the Washington Litigation Group, and also our co-colleagues at Democracy Defenders are going to hold them to account.

MATTINGLY: I wanted to ask you about that, because, one, yes, everything you said in terms of what it felt like when I heard it. But also listen to what Howard Lutnick was saying related to that earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUTNICK: People say, oh, don't overstate that it's dangerous. Look, there were chunks of concrete falling off the ceiling in the garage. When it fell off last time at 4:00 in the morning, okay, you clean it up in the morning. But if it fell on somebody, that would be an unmitigated disaster. And if it falls on cars when you're in there, it's -- this -- that will close the institution.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: It seemed to be like a backdoor way of trying to explain what sounded like a threat.

ZELINSKY: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Is there validity to what he was just describing?

ZELINSKY: So, to be very clear, their own executive director stated under oath to Judge Cooper in sworn testimony that they could do what's called a phased renovation. That means that you maintain some operations and you shut down. That is what the way that every single performing arts center does renovations, and that's what the Kennedy Center was planning to do.

What they're doing is they're shutting it down, and you have to ask why. And one reason, it's not unreasonable to think, is because they drove the center fiscally into the ground after the president's takeover, after the unlawful renaming. Artists fled. Donors fled. The artists -- the patrons fled as well. And so what they're trying to do is cover that up through a sham renovation and shutdown.

MATTINGLY: You note that career lawyers from DOJ were there today. What does that tell you about that?

ZELINSKY: No. Career lawyers were not there. The only lawyers who were there were political lawyers. They were political appointees.

MATTINGLY: Explain to people why you would recognize that and the significance of that.

[18:10:01]

ZELINSKY: Yes. So, in my line of work, when the career employees refuse to sign a brief, that means that they had ethical problems signing it. It's a signal to the world something is bad here. They've signed every other filing except for one or two that were pretty bad. They didn't sign this filing. They were signed by the politicals. That means this smells, it's ethically wrong, and they knew it. They wouldn't. It's a smoke signal, a warning flare, and it means that these guys are engaged in threats.

MATTINGLY: Nathaniel Zelinsky, as I told someone, never a dull moment. I really appreciate you coming in. Thanks very much.

ZELINSKY: Thanks so much.

MATTINGLY: Well, more than 1,300 people are still missing tonight as fears grow of more flooding in Nepal. The latest on those rescue efforts and what we're learning about how a landslide could cause such a catastrophe.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00] In our World Lead, nearly 400 people are now confirmed dead and more

than 1,000 are missing after catastrophic flash flooding hit Nepal and China on Wednesday. At least 700 of those missing are foreigners from two dozen countries, including the U.S. As search and rescue efforts continue, a new flood threat could complicate the response.

New drone footage shows a lake developing behind a dam created by the landslide in Nepal. Chinese authorities say three days of rain are expected across the region, and the dam could collapse at any moment, causing more flooding near the Nepal-China border.

CNN's Allison Chinchar is in the CNN Weather Center. Allison, this rain could further devastate the region.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Phil. One of the biggest issues we're going to face over the next few days is the rain chances, which are really going to inhibit a lot of the rescue and recovery efforts in this general area.

Now, we haven't had too much over the last 24 hours, but it's what is anticipated over the next few days.

Now, when we take a look at the before and after pictures of this general area, you can see here, this from a couple of days ago. Notice all of the green color right through there. This is the before, but that green color is what essentially disappears after the landslide when all of that debris and the mud flowed through this area and down in through the river valley region.

The other thing to note too is you can actually see the area where the landslide occurred. Right here, you can see kind of that side of the mountain just kind of sheared off. This is the before image. You can clearly see the mountain and the glacier right through there, and then again, this whole section of it just falls off and flows down, as we mentioned, through the river valley.

You also have the concern like this, where you have what used to be a river flowing through that has now been dammed up into a lake because of all of the debris that essentially fell down. You've got rocks, boulders, even trees. You can see the trees here that once used to be up on the side of the mountain that were brought down, and that's blocking this area, turning it into a lake.

The problem is, as more water flows into it, you also have rain coming down. At some point, it's going to be too much water, and this will in turn break, and all of that water will come rushing through. We just don't know when that is expected to occur. It could be days. It could be weeks.

The thing that is most concerning, though, is going to be the rain, and we've got rain in the forecast over the next few days. The one thing to note too is that some of this could be very heavy rain at times. Most areas expected to pick up maybe up to about 50 to 100 millimeters, but there could be a few spots that pick up even more than that over the next few days. We are right in the middle of monsoon season for these general areas, August being the second rainiest month out of the year, so that is a concern.

Now, for a lot of these areas, all of that debris that has come down has now hardened. It's that very hard mud, clay, rock mixture. But that actually makes it even more difficult for rescue and recovery efforts because it almost turns into concrete. It's also not very stable, which makes it more dangerous for them to attempt any of those rescue efforts.

MATTINGLY: Allison Chinchar, thanks so much.

Well, joining me now is the president of Refugees International, Jeremy Konyndyk. You were shaking your head as you were watching that report, I assume with, one, based on your knowledge of the ground, you led the U.S. response to Nepal's catastrophic 2015 earthquake, but also what you're seeing, what was striking you?

JEREMY KONYNDYK, PRESIDENT, REFUGEES INTERNATIONAL: Well, obviously this is a level of devastation that is extremely rare. I can't think of another incident in my career where I've seen something quite analogous to this. It is like an inland tsunami. I think you have to look at that sort of an event to get an analogy for the destructive power of what we saw here. And, of course, it sounds as though with the monsoon rains, which may have contributed, of course, to this first disaster, that there could be yet more waves of this to come.

MATTINGLY: Your organization, Refugees International, you're not working directly on this disaster, but you've been documenting lethal impacts of USAID cuts.

KONYNDYK: Yes.

MATTINGLY: You say this incident is an instance of that. Explain.

KONYNDYK: Yes. So, we've been documenting particularly some of the climate displacement and climate related cuts. This is a case -- this is affected by that.

So, USAID, prior to DOGE coming in, had eight different programs active in Nepal that were supporting what's called disaster risk reduction. So, that's trying to anticipate the kind of disasters that could occur and support a country to prepare to mitigate and respond to those. DOGE canceled eight of those. One of those included a program that was a joint USAID initiative with NASA to do things like monitoring risky glacial lake melt and potential inundation routes for flooding. Of course, DOGE also cut $420 million of climate programming over at NASA.

And so, you know, would that have prevented this or anticipated it? Hard to say, but it's also hard to understand and prepare for risks that you have closed your eyes to.

[18:20:01]

MATTINGLY: In terms of after something like this happens, the scale of the U.S. response, what is your sense of what's in place now in terms of is it effective? Has that also been a space where there has been money zeroed out and limits what the U.S. can do?

KONYNDYK: Yes. And, traditionally we -- you know, we would maintain, in my time at USAID, a modest-sized presence of partners in Nepal because it was a disaster-prone area. That has basically been zeroed out. All of the U.S. support that was maintained year-on-year was wiped out by DOGE. And so far, all they have announced is that they are sending one single individual and have released one half a million dollar grant to a single NGO. That is not enough. It's not big enough. I really hope they will do more.

MATTINGLY: Can I just ask, you know, it's right on the border with China, which has significant resources, presumably they are playing a role, other Indo-Pacific and Asian countries probably playing a role as well.

KONYNDYK: Yes.

MATTINGLY: What's the necessity of the U.S. role here, in your view?

KONYNDYK: In a disaster on this scale you really do need an all- hands-on-deck. And so in 2015, China responded, India responded, we also responded. When a disaster overwhelms the capacity of the host country, the whole world needs to step up. And I think it's a question of U.S. leadership. Do we want to show leadership in situations like this, or do we want to just basically step back and leave it to China, leave it to India, leave it to other countries?

I think that, traditionally, if a form of leadership that the American public expects is when they see a disaster on CNN that is, you know, horrifying footage, that the U.S. is going to be there and be there in a significant way.

MATTINGLY: In terms of the folks that are on the ground right now, what concern -- as you look forward, what concerns you about the coming days?

KONYNDYK: Well, obviously the risk of a further catastrophe if there is another flooding, as your colleague talked about. But even barring that, one of the lessons we took from the 2015 earthquake is when a hazard takes out the road network in these valleys, people get cut off. Villages in these areas will be cut off. They can only be reached by airlift. It's going to be important to get air assets in there. We deployed a lot of DOD helicopters and Ospreys to get to some of those remote villages. I haven't heard anything about a U.S. DOD deployment yet. But those are the sorts of -- that's the sort of work that is going to be needed, I suspect.

MATTINGLY: There's certainly a lot of work to come from everybody involved. I really appreciate you coming in. Thank you.

KONYNDYK: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, up next, the latest installment of our series Business Leaders. Tonight, we're taking a look at how small businesses are faring after the Trump administration was ordered to give out tariff refunds. Stick with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

MATTINGLY: It's time for an update on our Business Leaders series, where we talk to small business owners from coast to coast about how President Trump's tariffs are impacting them. Minnesota mom and Army veteran Beth Benike joined us last summer to discuss the devastating impact of the 145 percent tariffs on China on her infant product line, Busy Baby.

This month, Beth's tariff refund finally arrived, providing some much needed relief. She's back with us now. Beth, thank you so much for joining us.

Anybody who's had a child in the last five years has probably benefited from what you and your company produce.

In June of last year, you told Jake Tapper you were in a position to go out of business in six weeks. Catch us up.

BETH BENIKE, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, BUSY BABY: Yes. Well, we have managed to stay in business, but it has been the most difficult thing I've ever gone through in my life, and I was deployed to war zones. So, it's been a rough year, but I've managed to stay in business.

MATTINGLY: The tariff refund, explain -- I've talked to many people who have gone through the process. That was complex and arduous enough. But what -- how has it helped you, and what do you hope it can deal with going forward?

BENIKE: Well, my tariff refund has already come and gone. I waited weeks from submitting my refund to actually receiving the funds. Because of the debt that I've accumulated over the last year, I had to immediately pay off a big portion of that debt with that refund. So, it's gone. It was a small relief for cash flow in the moment, but it's already been spent paying back debt.

MATTINGLY: One of the things, having covered this for the last year and a half that I've tried to ask business owners about is, you know, as the Trump administration continues to prioritize tariffs, we're obviously seeing a bilateral war with Canada that's playing out as we speak, what do you want policymakers to know? What do you want them to hear from small business owners like yourself?

BENIKE: I mean, tariffs are a tax on American business owners. We are the ones that have to pay those tariffs, not the other countries. And tariffs were not put into place by our Founding Fathers, put in the Constitution to be run by Congress so that the executive branch could just use them willy-nilly however they want to.

So, for business owners, especially small business owners like me, we don't -- it's incredibly hard to handle the mental load of trying to figure out what moves we should make, what decisions are safe to make when things are constantly changing and out of our control. MATTINGLY: To that point, the idea of planning quarter by quarter, trying to look into the horizon and know what's coming next has kind of been blown to hell based on my conversations with small business owners like yourself. W-Where are you right now? How are you thinking through how do I get to the next quarter? How do I get to the next year? Are you even thinking to that point?

BENIKE: No, I'm pretty much week-to-week. I'm hoping that things will continue to get a little bit brighter. We've had some bright highlights come into the business recently. So, I'm hoping for more of that so I can plan a little bit further out. But right now I'm still just getting by week-to-week.

MATTINGLY: It is an enormous weight on you and other small business owners.

[18:30:02]

It's remarkable given where you were a year ago that you're still here now. Again, as somebody who's used Busy Baby products, highly recommend. People should definitely check it out.

Beth Benike, I really appreciate your time. Please keep us posted. Thank you so much.

BENIKE: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, tonight CNN is learning two air traffic controllers left work early the night a jet collided with a fire truck at New York LaGuardia Airport. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, new details tonight about the air traffic controllers on duty the night a deadly plane crash shut down New York City's LaGuardia Airport. Two controllers left work early that night before an Air Canada Express jet collided with a fire truck on the runway, killing both pilots.

Joining me now is Pete Muntean. Pete, walk us through what happened here.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have just confirmed these new developments, and they are huge, first reported by The Wall Street Journal, because the NTSB said shortly after the crash that the LaGuardia tower was fully staffed.

[18:35:05]

But now CNN has confirmed that two air traffic controllers had left their posts in the LaGuardia tower early the night of March 22nd, and now the FAA is considering disciplinary action. A source familiar with the investigation tells me those controllers are now on leave.

It's a major new detail because the air traffic control audio captured the controller in the LaGuardia tower frantically radioing an airport fire truck to stop from pulling out in front of Air Canada Express Flight 8646 as it was landing.

Remember, the fire truck had been responding to an earlier incident on another part of the airport and was crossing the runway to go back to the airport firehouse. The collision killed both of the plane's pilots, dozens more on the flight injured.

Now, we do not know exactly how the controllers leaving early really fits into the sequence of events that led to this collision, and it's not really clear if the NTSB ultimately determines if this played any role in the crash. But the NTSB said at the time of the crash that it would review controller staffing protocols and whether any single controller was overloaded with work by working multiple positions at the same time.

The FAA has released a new statement saying the agency is, quote, committed to holding employees accountable, and we will not compromise the safety or efficiency of the National Airspace System. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy also weighing in, saying, quote, we will not tolerate fraud, and we are taking appropriate action to hold folks accountable and prevent unlawful practices from disrupting the traveling public.

The union that represents controllers is classifying these new details as allegations and says it will discuss things directly with the FAA.

One more important note here, the NTSB investigation is still going on, a final report and a finding of probable cause not due out for another six months. The FAA and the controllers union are both considered party to this investigation. That classification usually means they are muzzled from speaking about an investigation publicly like this until it is over, making all of these new details especially extraordinary.

MATTINGLY: Remarkable. Pete, new NTSB report is shedding light on a close call involving the president's helicopter, Marine One, and the passenger jet near Reagan National. I remember the video. What's happening here?

MUNTEAN: Probably the biggest finding here is that construction at the White House may have contributed to the garbled communications that were at the center of this incident between the control tower at Reagan National Airport and Marine One.

That led Marine One to lifting off without controllers in the tower being aware, meaning they could not briefly stop flights from taking off, which is the standard protocol when the president is being moved from the White House by helicopter.

Aviation radios operate on what's called line of sight. That means a direct, unobstructed path between the antenna of the person transmitting via radio and the person receiving it. It's old school, but it works until things like buildings or mountains get in the way.

And here is the quote from this new preliminary NTSB report. There was, quote, not adequate line of sight to ensure communications between the radio transmitter and receiver site and The Ellipse where Marine One was temporarily operating from while construction was going on at the White House.

Now, Marine One usually lifts off from the White House South Lawn, which is a clearer sight line. Marine One radioed the DCA tower that they were about to lift off, which the tower did not acknowledge, but the helicopter lifted off anyway, leading to it coming within eight- tenths of a mile of a departing flight full of passengers.

This investigation not over yet, and one question the NTSB has is what were the Marine's protocols if there was a loss of communications between Marine One and the air traffic control tower, which is what happened in this case here. Still a lot of unanswered questions as NTSB investigators are still digging into this.

MATTINGLY: That video is still remarkable to watch play out. Pete Mutnean, great reporting as always, my friend.

MUNTEAN: Any time.

MATTINGLY: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, he couldn't make Canada the 51st state, so for now President Trump is settling for renaming a lake. The panel is here to weigh in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

MATTINGLY: In the Politics Lead, the legal back and forth over the Trump administration's Kennedy Center takeover continues. This afternoon's emergency hearing ending with no decision over whether Trump's name can be inscribed on the building, something the board says is necessary for the financial and structural future of the performing arts center, lest it face demolition.

Naturally, my panel is here. Neera Tanden -- come on -- Democratic Congresswoman Joyce Beatty brought the lawsuit. She's on the board as an ex-officio member. She told CNN's Kasie Hunt that today's hearing was a lot of rehashing of the same issues in this fight. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEATTY: Donald Trump and his handpicked board members have ran it into the ground. They put its name up, unlawful. People then started not coming to the Kennedy Center because they didn't want to be in this political battle. I will not stop fighting. Donald Trump likes to wear you down. Well, he picked the wrong person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Neera, this is one of the -- there's a number of issues in this category for me of like things I don't necessarily want to spend a ton of time focusing on, because I think there's lots of really important, like policy things happening in the world, but it won't go away. Explain to me, like what do you think about this being back front and center again on the legal side of things? NEERA TANDEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: You know, I mean, my overall take is that the fact that the president likes to spend so much time and energy really trying to get his name on buildings and creating a stamp for himself is just an odd distraction. I think most Americans are actually focused on how expensive gas is, and actually the Canadian trade war we've decided to have.

And the fact that this is an important thing, I mean, the Kennedy Center was, is an important institution. And I think most Americans still see it as the Kennedy Center, and it's just an odd occurrence that we spend so much time -- I mean, the president spends so much energy focusing in on putting his name, and actually this whole threat around a demolition.

[18:45:09]

I mean, the idea that the Kennedy Center would be demolished because he cannot get his name on something, it is -- I mean, outrageous seems to be just too small a word for how fundamentally stupid this is.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Melik, the thing that I always get stuck on is like, look, I will grant the president does not sleep much. He is in a lot of things all the time. There is no question about that. Respect that hustle.

But like, why in a midterm year, even if you do not care about the politics, like, is this a central focus of -- is Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary, who, by the way, plays a pretty significant role in the Canada trade talks sitting in the front row of a courtroom?

MELIK ABDUL, GOP STRATEGIST: I will say this, and I will be the Republican to come on CNN, and they are probably going to attack me for it. I wrote a couple of months ago in "Newsweek", and the article was titled what is left of Trump's legacy if he burns it all down. And in that article, I talked about these very sort of things, the things that are not your kitchen table sort of issues that voters are concerned about, things that are symbolism.

And Donald Trump spends a lot of time fighting for this symbolism. And what could possibly end up happening is that, unlike in his first term, you see a lot of asterisks in the second term. So, things that courts had to overturn, things that like the Kennedy Center. So, it ends up being a lot of asterisks because he is fighting for symbols that really only appeals to the base of the party.

So, I talked to Republicans today. They probably will not come on here and say it, but we would much rather Donald Trump talk about the midterms and his policies and how we win the midterm and keep his governance in place than talking about this. And the reason that we're talking about this is because of Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. And I think -- same -- talking to Republican, my Republican pals on Capitol Hill or in the campaign world who are just like, man, come on. Like we need to start -- if it is about Labor Day, like, let us start kicking into gear. You got a story? Let us tell it. I do not think he has a story. Republicans do.

Let us tell it. All right. Neera, speaking of the president and things that he decides to pay attention to, the Trump administration recently threatened your think tank, center for American progress with a $5 billion defamation lawsuit, which I am sure you have in a bank somewhere.

TANDEN: I do not have $5 billion. Just like to tell everyone that no, $5 billion.

MATTINGLY: Okay. I will be serious about this. Over report that concluded the deployment of the National Guard to cities across the country had little effect on reducing violent crime. Attorneys gave you a chance to retract that report. You said you were not going to back down.

My biggest question I know you are in the midst of a legal fight right now -- where does this stand?

TANDEN: The president's lawyers gave us a deadline of last Friday at five to respond, or to retract the report or face a lawsuit. They have not filed that lawsuit yet. There have been some, you know, we have received more letters from them. But we are expecting or, you know, we are in the midst of this.

I hope we will avoid a lawsuit because fundamentally, this would be a lawsuit over a National Guard -- a report on federal government policy around the National Guard deployments, and really ascertaining whether those policies were effective or not. And honestly, the ability to criticize a policy of the federal government should not be subject to defamation. A defamation case by the president's personal lawyers.

So, we have not been sued yet, but we are under the threat of litigation.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, I like think tank reports. Can we not, like, sue them out of existence from all sides? And you can agree or disagree with lots of them. But the ability to do that work, I think is important. It is important for policymakers. It also should not. $5 billion is a lot of money. Melik has got that.

(LAUGHTER)

ABDUL: Yeah.

MATTINGLY: Okay. I want to pivot to a midterm story, getting continued attention in Georgia.

"The Washington Post" reporting that the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Georgia, Congressman Mike Collins, has a former staffer who frequently posts provocative, racist, sexist and anti-Semitic content, including one image on his X account that appears to depict him in a KKK robe that he told "The Washington Post" he made using the Grok A.I. tool on X.

The staffer, Preston Parra, told "The Washington Post" that he considers his content satirical, and the congressman did not know about the account when they worked together. The Collins campaign did not answer "The Washington posts questions about Parra.

CNN has reported on Collins' son in laws track record of problematic posts, as well. Collins hadn't answered questions about that either. Collins, of course, has his own history of being a little racy sometimes on online and on Twitter.

The thing that I ask staffers doing staffer things like this is not a staffer thing like this is -- this is a messed up thing. It is a mess. The bigger question that I have when it comes to the Collins campaign, and Collins in general, is like, they got to win Georgia. He is already in a deep hole right now.

This does not -- it seems like we have this stuff every single week. If you are a Republican right now in the state of Georgia, like, what are you trying to do?

ABDUL: Well, I think this is something, and we should point out that this -- he was an intern and apparently, he was an intern only for a couple of months back in 2024. So, this is not something that should reflect on Collins himself.

[18:50:02]

He does -- I would say he probably has more of an uphill climb this time around, just winning the Senate seat, simply because Ossoff has been a senator for six years. So, he actually has something, whether you agree with him or not has something to run on.

But I think what the Ossoff campaign and many Democrats are now trying to do on the back of the sexist and misogynistic attacks against Natalie Harp, and we have seen Debbie Dingell double down on that, wanting to name it Lake Natalie, as she said, and even Pritzker comes out talking about Natalie Harp. I think what Democrats want to do is actually to deflect to the intern who worked for him for two months, as opposed to talking about the campaign that they are actually running.

TANDEN: I mean, I do not think, these things have anything to do with each other. I think Mike Collins, you are right, this guy, this was a staffer or a person who was associated with campaign, but Mike Collins himself has a history of having really questionable -- questionable social media. And, you know, I do not know why Mike Collins does not just say I repudiate these awful images. And --

ABDUL: He should.

TANDEN: He should and he hasn't. And I think that is very odd. And when you do not repudiate something, it does raise really significant questions. And I think Natalie Harp is a governmental employee. That is a completely different issue than this case.

MATTINGLY: We could talk a lot about all of these things online.

ABDUL: But we got to go. MATTINGLY: We got to go.

Melik, Neera, I appreciate you guys. Thank you very much.

Well, up next, more Americans are not just stocking a few extra cans in their pantries. They are packing up go bags, buying backup power, even building bunkers. Why doomsday prepping is going mainstream, and what's making so many people prepare for the worst.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:56]

MATTINGLY: From basement bunkers to go bags, doomsday prepping is going mainstream. New numbers show one in three Americans spent part of their household budget on survival gear, about 20 million call themselves preppers. That's double the number from 2017.

This week on "THE WHOLE STORY", CNN's Nick Paton Walsh takes us inside that world. Take a look

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jack shows us his safe house, where his training gets more violent and the gear gets serious. AR-15, Sigs, night vision, this one with a thermal clip on adapter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you come at me with a number one strike, go ahead. Give me the number one. I am going to cut your arm, so go ahead and give it to me again. So then I am going to step out. I am going to trap the arm.

All right. So, you are going to slap. So follow my hand this way. Do not you do not have to grab it. Just slap it. Cut so you are going to know you are going to follow me with this hand. One cut control the arm. There you go.

WALSH: Would you mind slowing down your attacks?

There you go. And then that. Right. Okay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So then I can cut.

WALSH: Right. Yeah. Fine. Okay. I am very dead.

Was that wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. That's good. Yeah. That's good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And Nick Paton Walsh joins us now. Nick, you have. I have seen you in some pretty hairy situations. That

one is unique. We just saw Jack's safe house. I cannot help but notice. Weapons, gear.

What are people like Jack most afraid of right now? And has that changed in recent years?

WALSH: Yeah. I mean, outside, you know, chucking me around the room like a human mannequin. Jack, I think, is from the sort of staple world of prepping, ultimately, long been interested in this and, you know, slightly, I think on the right end of Republican political spectrum. But it was not really his thoughts that were key. It was the people who were coming to him to learn the skills that he is essentially marketing there.

The ultimate fear I think that the sense of political crisis potentially building in the United States, the climate crisis, all that heaped up uncertainty leaves many thinking they may have to fend for themselves in the most extreme moments, Phil.

MATTINGLY: In the course of reporting this -- you know, again, I was mentioning where I see you. Usually, you are one of the more level- headed dudes that is out there. It is part of your immense talent. What was the most extreme thing you saw?

WALSH: I think it's two things. The weirdest place to go was this converted missile silo in Kansas that has been done out for billionaires, millionaires for their ultimate survival, that had like nuclear, biological air filters, scrubbing the air to keep them alive in the event of whatever. It even had a small time out jail cell. If you are a billionaire, drank too much wine and picked a fight with another billionaire.

It was so tightly prepared and heavily financed that it was from a different planet, frankly. And it left me wondering, look, something is bound to go wrong here. And it just felt like such an enormous investment in the hope of managing to survive something that is such an uncertainty.

But on the other end of it, the most really extreme thing for me personally was a survival course we did in Mexico in a beautiful gulf beach. We went there with a incredible survival expert there who taught me things I should know really. Like how to light a fire with a stick and how to catch fish.

I could only eat what we found and I got bitten alive from head to toe with bugs. And it really just showed you out there on your own, even in the most beautiful places on earth, I am just woefully ill equipped for anything remotely like that.

And all those skills that you think you know how to get fresh water, how to light a fire on your own, how to catch a fish, how to not eat just coconuts for days, I do not have them -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: I absolutely cannot wait to watch. Nick Paton Walsh, appreciate you, my friend. Thank you. You can look for Nick's reporting on a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY

WITH ANDERSON COOPER". That's Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern here on CNN. Then Monday on CNN All Access.

And I hope you will join me for my video series, "CNN Breaks It Down". We tackle some of the most pressing questions in business and politics. Find new episodes on CNN.com/watch.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.