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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump, Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA) Hit The Trail To Boost GOP; Protests Turn Violent In Paris; Trump Approves Execution By Firing Squad For Fort Hood Shooter; Tonight: Maine Senate Candidates Face Off In First Debate; Tropical Depression Forms In Gulf, Forecasted To Become First Hurricane Of Atlantic Season. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 06, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, President Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson both on the campaign trail trying to boost Republican candidates in some tight contests.

[18:00:04]

But this all comes as we learn the GOP is now sinking millions of dollars into yet another race in a ruby red state. We're heading to the White House for a midterms reality check in just moments.

Plus, thousands of people have been detained as protests turn violent in France, tear gas filling the air in Paris streets, furniture set on fire, riot police with batons clashing with crowds. CNN's team is on the scene to explain why a strike over school conditions has escalated so severely.

Also, the U.S. Army is set to execute a soldier by firing squad for the first time since World War II. Army Major Nidal Hasan, an Islamist extremist, was convicted of killing 13 people and wounding dozens of others in the 2009 mass shooting at Fort Hood, where he was based. But Nidal Hasan still has another chance to appeal. We'll explain why.

And we're watching the Gulf for a tropical depression or storm will likely form in the coming days and could threaten parts of the Gulf Coast and the South as we head into the weekend. We're going to get an update on the forecast from the CNN Weather Center.

The Lead tonight, with just 28 days to go until voters head to the polls on midterm Election Day, President Trump spent his afternoon in Baltimore, Maryland of all places. He was there to announce a $6.6 billion investment for a shipyard facility, an event sandwiched right in the middle of his midterm campaign blitz in which he is stopping at almost all red states across the country, which he was quick to bring up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: By the way, I'm going around doing rallies. The Republican Party's starting to go right through the roof. Somebody said today, I wonder why? Well, I had to get out. I had to do -- we had to explain what we're doing. There's never been a time like this in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, lest anyone believe that Trump's appearance in the largest blue city in a very blue state was a pre-midterms effort at bipartisanship, the governor of Maryland, Democrat Wes Moore, says the Trump administration blocked him from speaking at the unveiling, despite the fact that he had been involved in the deal. The White House says Moore was invited to attend the event, but only as a guest.

Let's get right to CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, obviously we're watching this dispute play out, one that the White House is not disputing, when Governor Moore says that he was basically uninvited from this event. They said that the governor was allowed to come to the event, but only as a guest, and not to have a speaking role during this event in his home state, where the president obviously was today, as they were announcing this billion dollar contract with this company that is going to be one of the biggest contracts, is going through the Navy, obviously, to build parts for these submarines.

And so I think what stands out here, Jake, is this is all coming from, you know, Governor Moore saying if the White House wants to bring the circus to town, as he put it, and not have him on stage, that was their decision. But the White House is now pushing back on the notion that the president did not want Governor Moore speaking on stage alongside him at this event today.

And I think really what this speaks to is the larger picture, Jake, of where we are, the fact that we're this close to the midterm elections, because, yes, the president and Governor Moore have had moments where they've gotten along together. We saw them at the Army-Navy game a few years ago. They've also had moments where they have feuded, and the president has criticized his decisions as governor.

But also this is all coming in the backdrop of the midterm elections coming up in just a matter of weeks from now, and the president has been criticizing Democrats essentially every single chance he gets, whether that's on Truth Social, in his public appearances, in his campaign rally speeches that he is delivering.

And so, obviously, he did not want to be sharing the stage with a Democratic governor today at this event, touting this big contract, even though I should note that the governor did play a role in bringing that company to his home state and touting that contract that they were awarding them today.

It really speaks to the larger concern that is happening inside the White House when it comes to Democratic momentum and what we're seeing in the polls. We'll see if it actually shows up in the votes. But what we're seeing in the polls right now for the party, that he very much does not want to win control of Congress in November.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks so much.

Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Our guests tonight include Maryland Governor Wes Moore, also Republican Senator Thom Tillis in North Carolina. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

Joining us now, Republican Congressman Buddy Carter from Georgia. He ran for the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate earlier this year. Thanks for joining us, Congressman.

So, President Trump projected confidence about your party's midterm chances this afternoon, saying the country's doing better than ever. Of course, his poll numbers are not doing that great. His approval is historically low. Republicans are clearly a little worried because a lot of money's being invested in races in pretty red states, like Kansas and South Carolina.

As a general rule, do you think his message and campaign strategy right now is helping Republicans, or do you think he should change his strategy at all?

[18:05:01]

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): No, I think he's got the right strategy. Look, we've got a record to run on. We changed America after the Biden-Harris administration, and we did our job. We secured the border. We made sure Americans are safer. We make sure we got a robust economy. All of those things are things we need to be running on. We put more money in people's pockets by passing the Working Families Tax Cut Act. We made sure that people have more of a tax refund. All those things are things that we need to be running on and not running away from.

You know, the question is asked, Jake, quite often, how many politicians does it take to change a light bulb? It takes two, one to change it and another one to change it back. We changed it, and we do not need to change it back. We fixed this problem that we had in this country, and Republicans need to be reminding voters of that. And when we can do that, I'm sure, and I feel very confident, we can retain the House and actually gain seats in the House and in the Senate.

TAPPER: On the subject of the Senate, yesterday, I spoke with outgoing North Carolina Republican senator Thom Tillis. He says that Trump's animosity towards him, also Senator Joni Ernst in Iowa, both of them decided to retire under a lot of pressure from the president, Senator John Cornyn in Texas, who lost his primary, President Trump endorsing his scandal-plagued primary rival, all of this puts control of the entire Senate at risk. Do you have any concerns at all about President Trump letting his personal relationships, vendettas, feuds with his fellow Republicans standing in the way of what's best for the GOP as a whole?

CARTER: Well, again, if we run on our record, because, look, Jake, we're right on policy. That's what people need to remember. Look at what we've done with the Working Families Tax Cut Act. No tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security, increased childcare tax credit. Something that flies under the radar that's very important to me as a pharmacist by profession, we've decreased prescription drug prices by 3.1 percent, the most in over 60 years. That's a kitchen table issue.

If people look at policy and not at personalities, then they'll see that Republicans are right on policy, and that's why we need to be electing more Republicans.

TAPPER: Gas prices in Georgia are almost a dollar more per gallon expensive than they were at this time last year. Obviously, a lot of that is because the war in Iran, which is a policy a lot of voters disagree with. Some of the high prices that voters are seeing in the grocery stores are because of tariffs that are also not particularly popular.

Are you worried -- you talk about being right on the policies, and you talk about a number of things that are popular policies without question. Are you not worried about the tariffs and the war in Iran dragging down those accomplishments that you cite?

CARTER: Well, certainly, gas is too high. There's no question about that. Now, we've been very fortunate in the state of Georgia. Our governor has suspended the state tax on fuel, and that has helped to bring prices down. The president, of course, in his announcement yesterday about diesel, that is something that's very important as well. I think the governor's going to be having -- the governor of Georgia's going to be having an announcement later on today about that as well. And that'll help. That'll help a lot.

But right now, yes, the president, this conflict in Iran -- I applaud the president. This is something that's been going on for 47 years. Remember, we talked about making this country safer. He is making this country safer by making sure that Iran doesn't have a nuclear bomb, by making sure they don't have ballistic missiles that can reach our homeland. All of those things are vitally important. We have to keep that in mind.

TAPPER: In Georgia's very closely watched Senate race, Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff appears rather well-positioned to keep his seat over Republican Congressman Mike Collins. It's the only Senate race where Democrats have had a significant ad spending advantage in this final month.

You ran for that Republican Senate nomination. You didn't make it to the runoff. What are you seeing in this race right now, and do you think if you were the Republican nominee, you would be doing better than Mr. Collins, who is frankly been dogged by questions about views, unfortunate views on race and anti-Semitism?

CARTER: Well, you know, look, hindsight's 20/20. Yes, I did feel like that I would've done well in the general election, but I didn't get out of the primary, so all of that's speculation. But nevertheless, this race is still going to tighten up. I think that this -- it's going to get tighter as we get closer to Election Day. And early voting starts in a week here in the state of Georgia on the 13th, and I think it's -- I think we're going to have a good voter turnout as long as we do what we're supposed to do, making sure that we get our voters out, making sure that we get our message out of all the things that we have accomplished in the Republican Party. I think this race, the Senate race, will tighten up.

TAPPER: Georgia Republican Congressman Buddy Carter, thank you so much for joining us today, sir.

[18:10:01]

I really appreciate it.

CARTER: Thank you, Jake, always a pleasure.

TAPPER: Let's talk more about this with our friend Jonah Goldberg, co- founder and editor-in-chief of The Dispatch.

I guess that's what you hear from -- I mean, he'll be elected I guess, but like that's what you hear from a party that's on the mats, if only people knew about what we had accomplished. We've heard this from other parties and other members of Congress in midterms past.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, it's, I mean, no offense to Carter, I think he did a perfectly fine job working through everything, but I kind of felt like the far side dog listening to his owner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ball, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know?

It's -- look, we have, I think it's 14 states as of today already have early voting, and by next week it's going to, I don't know, be maybe half of the states, something like that, if not sooner. With the momentum going, like, so much of this is already baked in, it's just very difficult to see how -- you know, Trump's philosophy is what America needs is more cowbell, and so he's going to go around ringing it all around the country, and to the glee of a lot of Democrats who want this to be all about Trump.

TAPPER: I mean, it's so interesting because he -- as has been said about a different group, he never passes up an opportunity to pass up an opportunity.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: I mean, he could've had Wes Moore on stage with him, working together, accomplishments.

GOLDBERG: Right.

TAPPER: He's willing to work with the other side, which, by the way, his base would forgive him.

GOLDBERG: Right.

TAPPER: And that might actually be charming to some independent voters.

GOLDBERG: Yes. And also, like, it's not like there are any competitive races in Maryland.

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: So, it would just be a nice photo op and sort of make him seem like a reasonable guy, but he just doesn't want to do that.

I think one of the more interesting things, and I think it's probably good for the country coming out of like this sort of snapshot moment that we're in, is it's kind of wild. Democrats are overperforming in red states and somewhat underperforming in blue states. And that I think is a good message for both parties, that this just sort of like rerun the same plays, turn out your base as much as possible, that's what the Republicans are trying to do. That's what that fake midterm convention was all about. And it turns out that that is not necessarily what American voters are looking for.

And that would be a good thing. If the Democrats thought they could win in red states with moderate and independent and centrist voters, and if Democrats realize that just leaning on their base in blue states and vice versa, that's a good thing. Maybe nature's healing.

TAPPER: Speaker Johnson's kicking off a campaign tour of his own today. It's to boost several Republican incumbents in Pennsylvania. He also plans to head to Michigan and Iowa this week, more states later this month. Does Speaker Johnson help get out the vote?

GOLDBERG: I mean, who can contain their excitement about the idea of Speaker Johnson coming? I think the interesting thing about Johnson doing this is there is legitimate reason to be skeptical about polls, right? And it's more important to look at the momentum of them than any single poll or anything like that.

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: But the Republican Party does really good polling, and the Democratic Party does really good polling. Where Johnson goes will be a really good test of what their own polling shows, and he's going to some places he shouldn't be going to this late. He's going to Montana. He's going to places, red places Iowa --

TAPPER: Iowa.

GOLDBERG: -- that are that are slipping away. And that's -- watch the feet rather than the mouth.

TAPPER: I completely agree with you. The public polling I'm very skeptical about, but where the parties put money and where they send their big dogs, like Obama to Michigan, oh, that means that they need to shore up excitement in Michigan for Abdul El-Sayed, and all this stuff going on in Iowa and sending money to South Carolina.

GOLDBERG: And pulling money out of North Carolina.

TAPPER: Yes.

GOLDBERG: Just saying, we're done here. TAPPER: Yes, we're done. Whatley's going to lose is basically the message they're sending, and we're going to send that money to Kansas.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

TAPPER: Kansas of all places. I mean, that really shows you -- and, again, I don't know what's going to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised by anything, but that shows you what they're worried about.

GOLDBERG: For sure. And part of it is -- look, I mean, part of it is just the actual issue environment. The problems with the economy right now in terms of diesel prices and tariffs and all that kind of stuff, they're basically designed to pinch red state rural voters, the core of the Republican coalition. And, you know, when you have -- when it costs you $200 to fill your pickup truck with diesel, that speaks much louder than a lot of other things.

And Trump is in this position. He's never been in the position where he wasn't way ahead on the issue of the economy, and that's a huge headwind.

TAPPER: Right. People forget that even in 2018, when he had a bad midterms, he still -- people -- I think it was a majority or at least almost a majority, thought he was doing a good job on the economy. That's not the case now.

Jonah, stick around. We're going to come back to you in a bit. We're heading to France next, though, sorry, Jonah, you don't get to come, where violent protests have erupted in the streets of Paris and thousands of people have been detained by police.

Plus, Germany's former spy chief has been arrested for treason and espionage accusations.

[18:15:00]

We're going to break down the serious charges ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our world lead, it's just after midnight in France, where thousands of high school students have been arrested as authorities are struggling to contain the biggest student protests in France in decades. It's now in its third week.

As grievances about school conditions boil over, CNN's Melissa Bell is in France for us, where police are being criticized for their forceful response to the protesters who are mostly under the age of 18.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): High schoolers in France, angrier than ever, and determined finally to be heard after more than two weeks of snowballing protests over school conditions, wounding hundreds of policemen and women, teachers, and high schoolers in scenes of unusual violence. Among those wounded, a teenager who lost his hand after picking up a crowd dispersal grenade, and another who lost the use of his eye.

More than 6,000 people have been taken into custody since the movement began, most of them minors. With much of the students' anger now directed at what they describe as police repression.

[18:20:00]

MANES NADEL, FORMER PRESIDENT, UNION SYNDICATE LYCEENNE: The strategy of the government since the beginning, without giving any answer, any political answer, any real discussion to the social movement. They are just creating violence.

BELL: The difference this Tuesday, public sector unions joining the students ahead of marches across the country, saying that they are there to protect them.

Lines of nurses, teachers, and firemen positioned in front of the kids' barricades. And a new strategy from the police --

LAURENT NUNEZ, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER: When there is a peaceful protest, the internal security forces do not intervene. To be clear, law enforcement intervenes when there is a threat to property or people, or damage to public spaces or the interior of establishments.

BELL: For more than two weeks, the students have been demanding more funding, sharing the state of their classrooms on social media, no longer fit, they say, to study in.

The answer from authorities has only incensed them further.

OCTAVE MARTY, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: We are young enough to be kicked, to be gassed, but we are not old enough to be listened. So, that's pretty crazy.

BELL: And for now, there is no sign of the movement dying down, with many grown-ups here now taking the side of the kids.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BELL (on camera): We've also seen today President Trump take to Truth Social, Jake, to speak of the fact that he believed that here in France, this was nothing to do with schools, rather it was about mass migration and Islam wanting to take over a once great country.

To be clear, what this has been about is the French government's growing inability to fund France's very generous welfare state, and this ahead of an election cycle that looks set to pit the far right against the far left. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Melissa Bell in Paris for us, thank you so much.

Also in Europe, Germany is grappling with what could be the most egregious spy scandal in the history of that country. Its former spy chief, August Hanning, was arrested and, quote, Strongly suspected of treasonous espionage, unquote, according to German prosecutors.

CNN's Nic Robertson interviewed Hanning a few years ago. Nic, this has got to be the biggest spy scandal in Europe in decades.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Jake, this is a man who would've been working with the director of the CIA, with the heads of other intelligence agencies around the world. From '98 to 2005, he was running the BND, Germany's foreign intelligence service. He was a critical part of the operations after 9/11 of European intelligence chiefs working with the United States to try to capture Osama bin Laden. I interviewed him in 2010 and 2018. He told me that he had a photograph of bin Laden after 9/11 still in Afghanistan, and said that there were lapses for the reason that he wasn't captured before he escaped to Pakistan.

What Hanning is accused of now is dramatic, treasonous espionage. That's what Germany's prosecution office is saying, the federal prosecutor. They're saying that along with his former chief of staff, a man they call Manfred D., they had essentially, and Hanning in particular, had given intelligence, political intelligence documents to a foreign intelligence service. That is a very damning accusation.

And the way they're framing it, the federal prosecutor is framing it this way, that Hanning and Manfred D. agreed that when Manfred D. went on to continue to work in government after Hanning retired, Manfred D. would pass Hanning documents, some 2,000 documents, the federal prosecutor says. And some of those documents, the allegation is, have ended up in the hands of a foreign intelligence service.

That is incredibly worrying because does that put other agents' lives at risk because Hanning was working at the top tier of German intelligence. It's going to raise the question of what was in those documents. Are agents at risk? Are state institutions at risk?

What we don't know, and what the prosecutor's not saying is who, which country those documents went to, Hanning gave them to, what motivated Hanning. But we do know from the prosecutor's office how they came to stumble on Hanning's deceit, alleged deceit.

They say they were investigating a child custody case where into a German business family. Hanning was involved in that. The children of the estranged husband and wife had been taken from the husband, who was living in Denmark. Hanning was involved in that. The police had searched his house, and during that search, they found the documents which tipped intelligence agencies that there was something nefarious going on.

[18:25:02]

So, this is incredibly serious and will send tremors through other intelligence agencies. What of their information might have been shared with a foreign adversary? Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

The U.S. Army is set to execute a soldier by firing squad for the first time since World War II. This after Major Nidal Hasan was convicted of the massacre at Fort Hood in 2009. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, President Donald Trump has approved a recommendation from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to have Nidal Hasan executed by a U.S. Army firing squad.

You might remember in 2009, then-Major Nidal Hasan was a U.S. Army psychiatrist when he carried out a mass shooting on the Fort Hood Army base in Texas. He killed 13 people. He wounded dozens more.

[18:30:00]

He was convicted in 2013. This will be the Army's first firing squad execution of a soldier since World War II.

And CNN's Brian Todd is here. And, Brian, this is a rare move by the Pentagon for this. Although he wasn't convicted of terrorism he was inspired by Al-Qaeda, and he he was convicted of murder.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very rare move, Jake, and with not a lot of historical precedent. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, according to the Pentagon, did recommend death by firing squad for Nidal Hasan, and President Trump approved it. The Pentagon, in a post on X, said, quote, judgment day for Hasan has finally come, end quote, now, either Pete Hegseth or the secretary of the Army is going to set the time and place for the execution.

As Jake mentioned, Hasan was an Army major and psychiatrist, walked into a processing center at Fort Hood, Texas on November 5th, 2009, shot and killed 13 people, wounded 32 others, before being apprehended by military police. Hasan had been radicalized and admitted to the killings. He said he was targeting soldiers who he was set to deploy with to Afghanistan in order to protect the Taliban and its leaders from the U.S. military.

Now, besides Hasan, three other soldiers are on death row at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, the Army's only maximum security facility. According to the Army Lawyer, which is a bulletin for military JAG officers, all of those soldiers were found guilty of murder. This is the first time the Army will have executed a soldier by firing squad, Jake alluded to this. That was since World War II. There's a picture. Private Eddie Slovik, he faced the firing squad in January 1945 after being found guilty of desertion.

Slovik's case has gotten a lot of historical attention. Out of an estimated 50,000 American deserters in World War II, he was the only one to be executed. According to journalist, Charles Glass, author of the book "Deserters", and an anti-death penalty non-profit called Reprieve, then Supreme Allied Commander General Dwight D. Eisenhower approved Eddie Slovik's execution as an example of what could happen to deserters while the Battle of the Bulge was going on.

Now, while Slovik's case has been pored over by historians, the case of Army Private John Bennett has not. Bennett was the last U.S. service member to be executed by any means. He was hanged in April 1961, 65 years ago, for the rape and attempted murder of an 11-year- old Austrian girl.

These cases, Jake, fascinating for their historical context and kind of grisly, obviously.

TAPPER: And the firing squad, it seems antiquated to some people perhaps but it's been making something of a comeback in the U.S., in the civilian realm, we saw the botched chemical attempted execution in Tennessee.

TODD: Right. And there might be more of a movement to bring back the firing squad, Jake. It is rare. It has been making a comeback. Execution by firing squad is only permitted in five states. Three people were executed by firing squad in South Carolina alone just last year. And before that, only three people had been executed in that manner since 1977, all in the state of Utah.

With this case of Christa Pike in Tennessee, we'll see if this really makes a comeback in earnest. It's got to be controversial either way, though.

TAPPER: Yes. I have to say that Eddie Slovik case, I learned about that when I was a little kid watching a T.V. movie starring Martin Sheen, "The Execution of Private Slovik". It won a lot of awards, I hear.

TODD: It was a famous movie at the time.

TAPPER: It sticks with me 52 years later.

Brian Todd, thanks so much.

TODD: Sure.

TAPPER: Today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio urged Russia to share more information about the death of that researcher at that plague lab in Siberia. A top infectious disease expert is here to walk us through what we know so far. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, new details could emerge tomorrow in the death of that Russian plague lab researcher. That's according to President Trump, who said earlier today that he expects to speak with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the matter very soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Have you spoken with President Putin or his representatives yet?

TRUMP: I have a call scheduled, yes.

REPORTER: What is that call scheduled for?

TRUMP: Very soon. So far, we're in very deep discussions. We'll be able to report about it probably tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Russia says Darya Shipilova died last week of pneumonia of unknown origin. But one official said it was possibly the plague. Russian authorities have isolated her contacts and tightened disease controls at hospitals, fueling fears that the Kremlin is not telling the full story, which wouldn't be the first time that happened.

Here to discuss is former White House COVID Response Coordinator Dr. Ashish Jha. Dr. Jha, good to see you.

So, you posted that you'd been gathering facts about the lab researcher's death and Russia's response to it. And now that you have your concern, what have you learned and what concerns you?

DR. ASHISH JHA, SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL: Yes. First, Jake, thanks for having me back. Look there are a lot of features of this case that are concerning and let me walk through a few of them. One is a lab worker dying of potentially pneumonic plague is very unusual. We have antibiotics. If she had a lab accident, she would've started those right away. So, that seems unusual. The fact is couple hundred people being under quarantine, also unusual for a lab accident.

And then the last thing is Russia has a very robust bioweapons program. It has been expanding in recent years. We don't know if this lab is part of that program or not, and not getting a lot of information from Russia is making a lot of us, including people inside the administration, concerned about this.

TAPPER: You say many experts are concerned about the history of the Irkutsk Anti-Plague Research Institute. What about its past raises concerns specifically?

JHA: Yes. So, Russia -- I mean, the Soviet Union actually in the old days had a very extensive bioweapons program. The person who used to run this specific lab was a leader in that program. There are lots of data that in the 20, 30 years ago this lab was working on trying to create antibiotic-resistant plague. We don't know if that was ever successful.

[18:40:00]

And, of course, Russia now says it's just a civilian facility, but they also have not done much in terms of opening it up and letting other people come and inspect it.

So, put all of that together, it doesn't mean it's definitely a bioweapons lab at all, but it does mean that we need a lot more information. There are enough signs pointing to that.

TAPPER: Secretary of State Rubio addressed the situation this morning. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's incumbent upon Russia to obviously share more information with the world.

The more we can learn about what happened, then the better all of us can be in a position of responding. And maybe, you know, there's nothing there. Maybe it's bigger than we thought. We don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you make of the U.S. response so far? What would you advise officials in the Trump administration to do?

JHA: Yes. So, the conversations I've been having and the, what I've said, look, if I was in seat, if I was in the White House, I would do a version of what Secretary Rubio said, which is demand information. But I would also have a verification strategy because the truth is we may not get the full -- you know, full unadulterated truth from the Kremlin.

So, what that means is, and I've called for this, I think Russia should welcome in a multinational task force of scientists and experts to come in, examine what happened, find out what happened to this young woman, see what's going on in the lab. And if there's really nothing, great, we'll all feel better, we'll go home. Until Russia does that, I think there are going to be lingering questions about, you know, exactly what happened.

TAPPER: If China, and we'll never know the real answer to this, but based on your informed opinion, if China had followed the advice you just gave Russia, how might have the year 2020 been different?

JHA: I think dramatically, Jake. If we had gotten an early jump on COVID, it would have allowed us to build up testing much earlier. I think we would have had a very different response. I think we could have avoided lockdowns. A lot of that -- some of that was our own kind of mishaps at CDC, but some of it was also how much things had already spread before China really shared what was going on with the world.

So, I think early detection is the entire ballgame when it comes to new disease outbreaks, and when countries hide information, it really, really makes it much harder to get on top of these things before they become a big global problem.

TAPPER: Before you go, I want to ask you about the U.S. measles outbreak because New York State just declared a state emergency after 108 measles cases, making it easier for midwives, pharmacists, other healthcare workers to give shots to prevent measles. Pennsylvania has more than 1,000 cases. Is this just the new normal now?

JHA: Yes. Look, we've had more measles cases in the last year-and-a- half under Secretary Kennedy's leadership than we've had in the 25 years before it, right? So, we have a serious problem here. I like what New York is doing. I like the way Governor Shapiro has been handling this in terms of trying to get aggressive about vaccinations. But it's really incumbent on the federal government, particularly Secretary Kennedy and HHS, to be a strong partner and to be an unequivocal advocate of vaccines in a way that I don't believe he has been.

TAPPER: Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you so much for your time and expertise, sir. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, it's decision time. Candidates in pivotal states going head-to-head in debates this week, and the pre-election day insults are already flying. We'll discuss next.

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[18:47:09]

TAPPER: That's CNN election night jam. And I'm still waiting for one of you industrious viewers to write lyrics for it.

The Maine Senate race tops our politics lead because this evening, Democrat Troy Jackson and Republican incumbent Senator Susan Collins are going to face off in their first debate. It's the first of four debates in 10 days.

The two are in a very competitive race. The latest Marist poll shows no clear leader among registered voters in Maine, 51 percent, Jackson, 47 percent, Collins. But that's what, within the margin of error.

The debate starts in 13 minutes. I think it's on public television there in Maine.

Let's talk about this with our panel.

Charles Booker, at a reproductive rights event yesterday in Maine, Jackson, the Democrat, criticized Collins for voting to confirm Justice Kavanaugh in 2018, arguing how his confirmation led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

"The Maine Wire" posted Jackson's comment, one of his comments on social media. Take a listen

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY JACKSON (D), MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Stupid. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. She thinks that we don't understand the process that, you know, she didn't know what he was going to do. I mean, everyone in the country knew exactly what she was going to do. It's not us that are stupid. It's her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And that started with I think she thinks we're stupid. But you heard him say, it's not us that are stupid. It's her. He walked that back.

What does Jackson need to do in tonight's debate, do you think?

CHARLES BOOKER (D), KENTUCKY SENATE CANDIDATE: Well, I think he needs to paint a clear picture of what's at stake. Are we choosing democracy? Are we choosing corruption? Susan Collins has shown that she is someone who can be bought and

sold. She has lost her lens on the people and has chosen to hoard power for herself. And he has to tell that story. And Kentuckians are feeling that too. People all over the country are feeling that because we're tired of the status quo. And I think if he can do that tonight, he'll have a good chance of making the case why he should be the next senator for Maine.

TAPPER: So she bucked the -- it wasn't a huge blue wave, but in 2020, Trump was a drag on the ticket. I think it's fair to say.

GOLDBERG: Yeah.

TAPPER: And he lost Maine by something like eight. And she won Maine by something like eight.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. I mean, this is one of the advantages that Susan Collins has, is if you have an independent identity or brand, it's harder to do it. It's easier to separate yourself from Trump if you were just simply generic Republican, then the generic ballot actually applies to you pretty strongly.

But Susan Collins got deep, deep roots in the state of Maine, and she's also -- she's playing very, very heavily to her role as the head of the appropriations committee. And Maine is one of these states where bringing stuff home matters.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GOLDBERG: And so I think it kind of works. And Jackson, part of his problem is like, it's -- it's kind of ironic. He actually has a more actual authentic blue collar background than Graham Platner did the guy who dropped out, but he has zero of Platner charisma. And so, he had to inherit a movement that wanted this sort of cult figure.

[18:50:01]

And he's actually just sort of more of a nuts and bolts, boring Maine politician.

TAPPER: You know, it's funny, you talk about Susan Collins -- Susan Collins having her own independent brand. Darline Graham, the incumbent senator in South Carolina does not have an independent brand. She was appointed that position after her older brother Lindsey Graham's death.

And now Republicans look like they're concerned. The top Republican super PAC in the senate race has plans to spend $5 million to help her. Darline Graham again, I'm talking about South Carolina. She faces Democratic physician Annie Andrews, and Trump's been attacking Dr. Andrews as tranny Annie, going after on social issues and using that kind of crude rhetoric.

What do you think of this?

GOLDBERG: Well, I don't think she's a trans person. TAPPER: No, but I think she supports some. Like I mean --

GOLDBERG: I just -- I just thought it was worth getting that out there. So fact check, false.

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: Look, I -- we were talking about this earlier in the hour, like this is a good example of, you know, the last Marist poll. It's fascinating, unprecedented. You ask Americans whether they strongly disapprove of Trump versus just somewhat disapprove.

TAPPER: Uh-hmm.

GOLDBERG: Six percent somewhat disapprove, 53 percent strongly disapprove.

TAPPER: That's a lot.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. So, it's the intensity of anti-Trump stuff. So, if you don't have a separate personality, if you just are simply seen as an extension of Trump, even in some place like South Carolina can hurt you.

TAPPER: Do you think -- do you think that Darline Graham is really in danger here?

BOOKER: Absolutely. Something is in the water. The writing is on the wall, and there's a reason that they're dumping money into this race. It should be a safe seat. And just like in Kentucky, a state that Trump won by over 30 points, we're within single digits in my race.

People see that something different is happening because we're sick and tired of the corruption and the attacks on Dr. Andrews. That's sick. Instead of attacking vulnerable communities, how about attacking the gas prices, attacking these diesel prices?

But no, they're playing these games and people are tired of it.

TAPPER: Meanwhile, President Trump's going to be in San Antonio tomorrow looking to rally support for the Republican senate nominee, Ken Paxton. But if you tune in tomorrow, and you don't see the governor, Greg Abbott, a longtime Republican governor there, according to Ben Wermund, a political reporter for Hearst in Texas, he's going to be instead busy with other campaign events.

On Trump showing up in Texas, Abbott told the reporter, quote, "He does a good job with getting the base organized and turning out."

What do you think that means, Charles? Do you think, like Abbott's -- who is up for reelection this year -- do you think he's worried about being seen with Trump?

BOOKER: Of course, he is. He's too busy for the president of the United States. And look, folks are taking Trump off their websites. My opponent is doing that, too. They see what's going on. And they know that people are tired of Trump breaking promises,

causing chaos. This trade war with Canada, all the devastation in Iran. People are sick of it and they don't want to be seen with it.

Now, these status quo politicians are trying to run from Trump, but we're holding them accountable so he can't hide.

TAPPER: Jonah, before you go, before we -- the panel just bars, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with a closed door fundraiser in New York the other day. And she said, according to "The New York Times", that Abdul El-Sayed's race for Senate in Michigan and how competitive is was part of a generational project for progressives, and quote, "Because if you can win, if Abdul can win in Michigan, anybody can win anywhere."

What do you think of that?

GOLDBERG: I think that's nonsense. Look, I remember a while ago, AOC's PAC was talking about primarying Joe Manchin in West Virginia. Right. As if you could get a progressive AOC type in West Virginia.

Joe Manchin will be the last Democrat elected statewide in West Virginia, probably in our lifetimes.

And similarly, Abdul El-Sayed has unique -- has unique facts on the ground there in terms of the Middle Eastern community, the Muslim community in the state, plus huge turnout from progressive student groups and that kind of thing. It is not -- a lot of these DSA candidates don't do well in statewide races anywhere. Michigan is one of the few places with an electorate that makes it even remotely possible that Sayed could win.

TAPPER: What do you think?

BOOKER: Well, I do think that there's a lot of history that's possible. And what I know is anyone that's standing up for working people has a chance to win. I see possibilities in Michigan. I see it in Kentucky because people who voted for Trump, people who've never voted before, are taking a chance with me. And a lot of people have said, well, don't even consider Kentucky. Mitch McConnell has ran that state for 40 plus years.

Something different is happening. If you finally listen to the people. And I think that's what we're seeing.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

We're heading to the CNN Weather Center next for a look at the brand- new forecast. As a tropical system gains strength in the Gulf.

Stay with us

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[18:58:53]

TAPPER: A new tropical depression formed late this afternoon, and it is expected to become a hurricane.

CNN's Derek Van Dam is in the CNN Weather Center with an update on the forecast -- Derek.

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DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Jake, future Isaias has got a timing issue and timing is everything with this developing tropical system, not only in its strength, but when it will make landfall across the central and eastern Gulf. The computer models are honing in on an area between New Orleans and Pensacola Beach, but the timing is critical on how much wind shear it encounters on its travels northward.

Does it hang out down here for a little bit longer and then encounter more wind shear? That would be a slower solution, bringing this in late Saturday into early Sunday, some of the computer models showing that, like the American model.

But does it escape the wind shear and actually come in earlier as a stronger, more powerful system, potentially a category one hurricane? That is what some of the A.I. models and the European model are indicating. There's one thing for sure. There's a lot of rain associated with this and an already saturated environment, flash flooding a possibility this weekend. And then on that right front quadrant, the potential for spin up tornadoes with a severe weather threat as we head into the weekend for the northern Gulf coast -- Jake.

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TAPPER: All right. Derek Van Dam, thanks so much. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.