Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Rallies In Deep Red Florida With 11 Days To Election Night; Police Officer And Interim Police Chief Resign After Fatal Shooting of ONE-Year-Old Boy In Mississippi; Early Vote Surges Across North Carolina; DOJ Appeals California Voter Case Before Judge's Planned Hearing; Comedy Legend Norm MacDonald Featured In New Netflix Doc. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 23, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's the CNN Election Jam, and you know that it's time for the Politics Lead. Welcome to The Lead, I'm Jake Tapper.

We're just 11 days from the midterm polls closing in the elections. President Trump is projecting confidence as he hits the campaign trail once again, this time for a rally in Fort Myers, Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And we're going to win a Republican House and a Republican Senate and do things like you wouldn't believe.

I don't think there's ever been a midterm election that I've ever seen with the kind of spirit that this one has. I don't think I've ever seen it. What? In fact, they're sort of known as boring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Okay. One may wonder why the president is currently on a blitz of red states. I mean, why is he in Florida if he's, in fact, so confident about the spirit of Republican voters, or why the GOP is throwing cash at candidates in typically deep red states, including, believe it or not, Mississippi?

Or if the Trump administration is really so convinced that the president's going to defy history and hold onto power in the midterms, why today would the president and his Justice Department take the unprecedented move of suing Alaska to potentially block the results of the battle around Senate race already because one of the candidates on the ballot has the same name as the incumbent Republican senator, Dan Sullivan? It's a move, we should note, the president himself ordered. That doesn't really scream, we're confident our candidates are going to win. Not to me, anyway.

Let's go to CNN's Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, how are Trump officials feeling in these final 11 days? Not how are they projecting that they're feeling, how are they actually feeling?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it really depends on who you're talking to, Jake. I mean, they're looking at poll numbers. They actually have really good pollsters. They felt this way going up into the 2024 election when they were looking at what the numbers were like between the president and Kamala Harris.

And so they're looking at the numbers very closely, and I think that's why you're seeing the president go to places like Florida, where typically you would not see a president -- if he wasn't worried that maybe those candidates were on the line there.

But it's also fitting with what the president has done historically in elections. He likes to travel a lot. He wants to hold a bunch of rallies. He did this in the 2018 midterms, he did it before the elections, and now he's doing it again, hoping to defy history. But also, Jake, you know, when you talk to White House officials, they're not confident that they're going to defy history.

The question is what that margin is going to look like on Election Day. They do believe, and as the president has cited multiple times, his party the president's party, whoever's in power historically loses in the midterms. They're not ignorant of that fact, Jake. But they're trying to deploy the president, have him out on the road like he wants to be. He's convinced that his rallies are actually helping these Republican candidates. I think that is to be determined.

I mean, I was listening to his rally in Iowa last night, Jake, and he wasn't talking at length about the candidates there. He was talking about Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan, Ilhan Omar in Minnesota, all these other candidates that are on the ballot, but not specifically honing in on the Republicans who are on the ballot in, for example, in Iowa. And so that remains to be seen, Jake.

But I think what's happening in Alaska is really telling and something to watch very closely because the president has been personally obsessed with the fact that the second Dan Sullivan is on the ballot. He's worried it's going to detract from the Republican Dan Sullivan, that they want to hold onto that seat, and that it's going to benefit the Democrat here.

And so the fact that the White House is proactively, the Justice Department is proactively taking this step to say that if the margin is close on Election Day because of this, that they should not certify the election, signifies how the White House is viewing this and how they are trying, to approach this.

And just yesterday, the Attorney General Todd Blanche said that they would not improperly interfere in the election or certification process. An,d of course, Jake, when you look at that sentence, the word improperly there is doing a lot of work.

And so I think it remains to be seen what this is going to look like in 11 days from now when we're actually seeing what these election results are. TAPPER: All right. CNN's Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Her guests tonight include Democratic Senator Andy Kim from the great state of New Jersey. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

My panel's here now. Let's introduce and welcome to The Lead Errin Covey. She's the House race editor from the Cook Political Report. And Cook Political Report today moved another 19 House races from the toss-up column to lean Democrat, and this is from your analysis today, quote, now, we view the likeliest outcome as Democrats flipping between 12 and 22 seats. Talk us through this decision.

ERIN COVEY, EDITOR, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT: So, this would grant them a majority on either end of that range, to be clear. They currently have 215 seats, so they only need to flip two or three in order to get to the magic number, 218.

We have seen in a lot of deep red places that Trump won by double digits, his approval rating is deeply underwater now, and that is dragging down Republicans across the country, particularly Republican candidates who aren't incumbents, who haven't had time to establish a brand.

[18:05:08]

And that's allowed Democrats to sneak up on them in a lot of these cases, hence the shifts that are rapidly coming to the left.

TAPPER: Very interesting. Ashley Allison, Democrats only need to flip three, as you just heard, to get control of the House. If they manage to, to pull off a much larger victory, what do you think that means?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That Americans are frustrated with the Trump administration, and that he won in 2024, winning most of the -- if not all of the battleground states --

TAPPER: All the battleground states, yes.

ALLISON: Because they were not satisfied with the way Democrats were leading under the Biden administration. And the last two years, he has led by edict almost with the tariffs, with the war in Iran, and Americans are not happy because they are not feeling the relief he promised them. And not only are they not feeling the relief, they are now in a war that he promised them that he would never get into. And so it's a rebuke.

TAPPER: Some Republicans are finding it easier than others to answer questions about high prices, especially high food prices. I want to give you an example from the Kentucky Sixth Congressional District debate. Here's Ralph Alvarado asked about what his family is seeing at the grocery store. I want you to rate his answer on the other side of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The same thing here. Push you for a specific example of what your family is seeing at the grocery store. 15 seconds.

RALPH ALVARADO (R), KENTUCKY CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Yes. I mean, again, my wife does a lot of the shopping for us, so I don't get to go. I mean, I'm a physician. Usually if I go to the Walmart and go down and do some shopping, people will pull me aside, want me to look in their kids' ears and do examinations, so I don't do a lot of shopping personally.

My wife goes a lot. But we do grow a lot of our own food at home. We live on a farm in Clark County. And we eat a lot of food at home that we prepare. We grow our own vegetables and do a lot of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. That's time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What'd you think about --

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, G.W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION: Is that a one out of ten? One being the lowest, I give him zero.

First of all, my back goes up when he's like, my wife does all the shopping. Guys can do it, too --

TAPPER: I know.

DAVIS: Jake. Okay.

TAPPER: I do it. I mean, I also order from Instacart. But keep going.

DAVIS: But, look, I, and I've been saying this for months, and I think that most people, except maybe the Speaker of the House or Tom Emmer, the House is 99.9 percent going to flip. I will take 12 any day. It was nine. I would have taken nine as well. But, I mean, the palace intrigue, I feel, in inside the Beltway Republicans and the House dynamic is who's going to be the next minority leader. That to me is what's taking up the air.

I know, for example, my firm, we've been preparing for a Democratic takeover. We're not there in the Senate yet. I know it's going to be very, very close, 50/50, 49/51. But -- and you know what? It's okay if the House flips. Like it's going to just be fine.

TAPPER: The country will survive. Erin, what are the issues that are part of this -- I don't know if it's a blue wave, but whatever it is what are the headwinds? Obviously, grocery prices -- I'm not sure that answer was the solution. But obviously grocery prices are part of it.

COVEY: Yes. I mean, there's a reason that Alvarado is in a toss-up seat despite the fact that this district voted for Trump by, like, 15 points in 2024. But yes, I mean, cost of living is by far the dominant issue in all of these places, and it's why Trump's approval rating is underwater in a lot of places where he has made significant gains over the past ten years. We're seeing the biggest swings back towards Democrats in places that he has done the best, which is with Hispanic voters, with white working class voters. Those are the demographics that are swinging the most towards Democrats that we're seeing in the polling. But, yes, it's all cost of living.

We're also seeing corruption come up in a lot of campaigns.

TAPPER: That's really interesting, yes.

COVEY: Stock trading is a huge issue for members of Congress from both parties. Obviously, Republicans are playing a bit more defense this cycle, but Democratic members are also facing attacks based on that as well.

TAPPER: Interesting. Let me just say, just as a helpful public service announcement for members of Congress who are there. The answer is, when I go to the grocery store, prices are too high. Re-elect me and I will help bring them down. That's right? I mean, this is like -- that's all you need to say. Not, my wife does the shopping, so I can't. Okay.

DAVIS: I'm sure there's a campaign ad that has been made from that on the Democratic side.

TAPPER: Oh, I would think. Well, like she said, like Erin said, the Sixth Congressional District is Kentucky, and that's a toss-up, right? You've rated it a toss-up.

COVEY: It's a toss-up.

TAPPER: This morning Trump was asked about his appeal to minority voters. You were just talking about the minority voters and how they were swinging away from the Republican Party. Take a listen to what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think the minority voter's been great to me, you know? So, I've been great to the minority voter. Look what I've done for -- as an example, with the Historically Black Colleges and Universities, I've taken care of them. I've been very good.

The Hispanic voter has been great to me, but I've been great to them, too. You know, there's a reason, and I've been great to Hispanics, I've been great to blacks, I've been great to pretty much everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, tell me about minority voters and how they have, how they were in 2024 and where they are today.

[18:10:03]

COVEY: We saw really dramatic swings towards Trump with Hispanic voters between 2020 and 2024. Now, districts in South Texas that voted for Trump by double digits are going to probably be won by Democrats. It's a really remarkable swing to the left. We're not going to see a swing left to that size across the country in all these places, but we're seeing it the most in these Hispanic districts.

I think black voters are going to play a role in some of these gerrymandered districts in the Deep South, which were redrawn to oust members of Congress, like Shomari Figures, but these races still look quite competitive even if they may be the underdog.

TAPPER: Yes. Why do you think Latino voters are -- in some of these districts, at least according to polls, we'll see what happens, abandoning the GOP, abandoning Trump?

DAVIS: Well, I think the reason they came to his side in 2024 was all because of the borders. And so now that issue is kind of over because the borders are shut and then the border policy has, in my opinion, been a lot better. But now they're voting on the cost of living, and so they're not voting on that issue anymore.

ALLISON: But I do think -- I'll just say that I think that, yes, on the immigration issue, but black people have to pay rent and eat groceries, and Latino voters have to pay rent and eat groceries, and the economy is bad for everybody.

TAPPER: Right.

ALLISON: So, I think the -- I think immigration played a big role in '24. But I think they -- those Latino voters, I was looking at some research recently about it out of EQUIS (ph), and it was saying that for the first time in a generation, Latinos are not seeing this, like, American dream that they -- came to America and so believed in. It started especially in Latino men.

And so the fact that they had so much hope in this president, they are seeing their community be brutalized, not just closing the border, but with the ICE over-aggression, and they still can't afford a better living. It is why he's starting to hemorrhage that population.

TAPPER: What a great panel. And, Erin, welcome. You're welcome back anytime. Thank you so much for being here.

Much more of our midterm coverage tonight, including a trip down to North Carolina, where more than 1 million people have already voted. All right, North Carolina.

Plus, we're heading to Virginia next, where Democrats are feeling optimistic they can oust a Republican congressman who served for nearly 20 years. It's the Richmond suburbs. That's all ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: More on our Politics Lead now. 11 days left until midterm election day, and that will decide which party controls the House and which party controls the Senate. We're keeping a close eye on Virginia's 1st Congressional District. That covers some of the Richmond suburbs and over to Jamestown, Yorktown, Williamsburg. It's where ten-term incumbent Republican Rob Wittman is getting a run for his money from his Democratic challenger, Shannon Taylor.

Trump won that district by about four percentage points in 2024, but Congressman Wittman won it by 13 percentage points. Still, 2024 is not 2026, and Shannon Taylor joins us now.

Shannon, thanks so much for joining us. The latest Washington Post poll shows you leading Wittman by four percentage points, which is within the poll's margin of error. This is still a substantial shift to the left compared to previous elections for the First Congressional. What do you think is behind the shift in this district, frustration with Trump? What do you make of it?

SHANNON TAYLOR (D), VIRGINIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Well, first, thanks for having me on. I'll tell you, everywhere I go across this district, whether it be the suburbs of my county or just like you highlighted, the historic triangle area or the northern neck part of this district, there are two things I continue to hear. Everyone is terrified about the rising cost of living, food, gas, energy, and they are also mad as heck about the corruption in D.C. And voters see that that direct corruption is for why costs keep going up.

You know, we're prosecuting the case against Rob Wittman. I'm showing the voters here in the first that while he's been in D.C., his net worth has gone up 40 times. He's trading over $2.5 million worth of stock. He voted on a budget bill that not only gave billionaires a tax break, he gave himself one of the largest tax breaks, up to $60,000, which, by the way, is more than some people in this district earn a year, and he did it at our cost, stripping our healthcare.

That's what people see is the frustration, and I think that's exactly what you see is with the result of this poll.

TAPPER: So, beyond your specific prosecution of the Congressman, if you were to win -- I mean, everything you're talking about that you're accusing him of doing is legal. What would you do to change the situation in D.C. so other members of Congress, including potentially yourself, could not do the same thing?

TAYLOR: Well, I came up with an anti-corruption agenda to ban Congressional stock trading, period. Don't have to guess. I also want to ban a pipeline from Congress to lobbying firms, so, again, there's no back of the mind financial incentive. I actually want to talk about term limits, and I also want to see jail time, mandatory jail time for people who misappropriate our taxpayer money.

The reality is people see politicians like Rob Wittman getting rich, and they're paying more. So, that perception is reality. That's what I want to fix. And oh, by the way, I also want to take back the unlawful tariffs that were put into this place by this administration that Rob Wittman did nothing about, knowing it was going to hurt the farmers here in the district.

I want to fix our healthcare system, again, where Rob Wittman has been there for two decades and has done nothing. And certainly, I want to get out of a war that he has voted six times to support and actually ha- has gone and said it's not a war, which I find to be offensive to the family members of the 21 servicemen and women we've lost.

TAPPER: Shannon Taylor, thank you so much. Have fun out there on the campaign trail. We have invited Congressman Wittman to come on the show to discuss the race, and he is welcome at any time.

[18:20:01]

TAYLOR: Yes. Join us at shannontaylorva.com. Thank you.

TAPPER: A Mississippi police officer, as well as an interim police chief, have now resigned after the shooting that resulted in the death of a one-year-old boy. We told you about it earlier this week. Next, we're going to bring you newly released video to tell you what that reveals about the moments after the shots were fired. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our National Lead. Today, a Mississippi police officer and the interim police chief resigned. This is just days after the state said the officer's actions had been justified in a shooting that resulted in the death of a one- year-old, Kohen Wiley.

[18:25:01]

We told you about his death earlier this week.

These resignations come just one day after the state released police body camera footage of the June shooting at a Walmart parking lot in Senatobia, Mississippi. Police suspected Wiley's mother and her friend of shoplifting, like diapers and stuff.

CNN's Ryan Young is following this story. So, Ryan, what does the video show?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. This is a very difficult video to watch, and in the video you see back in June the officers responding to a shoplifting call. The video lasts about 42 seconds, and you see sheriff deputies and officers surrounding a car. And at one point the car goes backwards, it hits another car before accelerating forward.

Only one of the five officers opened fire. And what you notice here is as you watch this video, that shot comes from the passenger side. So, the shot that was being fired wasn't even being fired toward the driver, and three shots were fired in total.

Hunter Foster is the officer who fired the shot that fatally killed one-year-old Kohen Wiley. They were pursuing the two women because they believed they were shoplifting from the store, diapers and baby clothes.

The mayor of Senatobia, Greg Graves, confirmed all this with us, that Hunter decided to resign after this video was released to the public.

We reached out to Hunter's attorney and he basically says that what Hunter did was to protect the officers who were there because they believed that they were going to be gravely injured by that car.

There was a news conference just yesterday with Attorney Ben Crump and members of the family and other people who were in the community who are upset by this. They believe that the shots were not justified.

Now, by the state attorney general deciding not to charge the officer and not taking this to a grand jury, there are very few legal ramifications now moving forward for that officer who has resigned. But this has left a hole in their hearts, and as you can understand, people are still angry by what took place.

Take a listen to Ben Crump as he talks about how this family is being torn apart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR KOHEN WILEY'S FAMILY: The shot that killed one-year-old baby Kohen Wiley was not justified.

This decision sends a message that a black baby boy, his life is not as valuable as the white diapers that he is wrapped in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Now, the two women in the car were not charged in this case, and, of course, as this moves forward, there's just a lot of questions about how to heal in this community. There is a belief that there'll be more meetings coming forward with, in terms of the community trying to figure out what to do next, but at the same time, with this decision being made, now people can only speculate about what should or shouldn't happen by watching this video.

I do think it's worth noting that those shots were fired on the passenger side and not toward the driver. So, there's a lot of question about that as well. But, Jake, this is another tough situation with a one-year-old, a one-year-old who lost his life. Jake?

TAPPER: Ryan Young, awful story, thank you.

More than 1 million people have already voted in battleground state North Carolina. We're going to dig into the numbers next to see what they could tell us about some of the key races.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: Sticking with politics, with 11 days to go until the polls close on this midterm election season, a surge in early voting signals Americans, whether Democrats or Republicans or independents, are dialed in. And that includes in the Tar Heel State, North Carolina, where well over 1 million residents have already cast their ballots.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher has more behind the surge.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, North Carolina has a pivotal Senate race and several competitive Congressional seats on the line as well. It sort of feels like all eyes are on the Tar Heel state, and the voters know it. Because through yesterday, they have cast more than 1,269,000 ballots by mail and early in person. And it sounds like a lot, but the data backs it up as well. That is a 37 percent increase from this same point in 2022.

And, look, we shouldn't extrapolate too much information from this data, but there does appear to be a sort of obvious enthusiasm advantage that we're seeing here, a trend for Democrats. 42 percent of the ballots that were cast come from registered Democrats. They are outpacing their own turnout from both 2022 and 2024 at this same point so far. And you can see that Republicans are lagging behind, accounting for only 23 percent of the total ballots count at this point.

Now, GOP turnout numbers have been improving ever so slightly each day, but there is still a substantial gap.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Starting a family, this is our first baby. You know, she's nine months old, and everything has just gotten so wildly expensive. You know, we're feeling it at the grocery store. We're feeling it, you know, everywhere, trying to save for a home, and it's just -- something's not working in this government right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who knew that Trump was going to win in '24, you know? Everybody said he's going to lose.

Don't discount the Republicans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: So, the caveat on all of this is early enthusiasm doesn't necessarily equal election results. But, Jake, I can tell you that Democrats here in North Carolina that I've spoken to, well, they're not upset about what they're seeing so far.

TAPPER: All right. Dianne Gallagher, thanks so much.

One of the issues President Trump raised during his trip to North Carolina a few days ago, the veterans and their family members still seeking compensation for water contamination at the Marine Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.

[18:35:13]

President Trump promising that he'll direct the Justice Department to finish the payments to those families and service members, but only under one condition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And if we win the House and the Senate, I am directing the Department of Justice to settle all remaining legitimate claims as soon as possible.

So, if we don't win, there's no money. If we do win, you're getting it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: If we don't win, there's no money.

North Carolina Democratic Congresswoman Deborah Ross joins me now, we've had her on the show before, to discuss Camp Lejeune. Congresswoman, the battle between the veterans and family members of the Marines and the federal government, this has been a long time coming. What's been the reaction from that community to what the president said?

REP. DEBORAH ROSS (D-NC): They are deeply hurt and disturbed that the president would tell them that the suffering that they've endured would only be recognized if he's happy. They know that he and his administration have let them down. His first administration let them down. His current administration is fighting them in court. We had to pass a law to let them even have legal claims, and now those legal claims are being held up by just one court.

So, we even have a bipartisan bill, the North Carolina Congressional Delegation has a bipartisan bill to make those claims move more quickly. They are starting to be heard in court, but the president holding them up, admitting that he has been holding them up, is cruel, unjust, and un-American.

TAPPER: So, you serve on the Democratic Women's Caucus. While I have you, I want to ask you about that ad airing in Ohio, the one that Republican Gubernatorial Candidate Vivek Ramaswamy is running against, the, the Democratic candidate, Dr. Amy Acton using her estranged mother to call the daughter a liar. Obviously, the mother says that her daughter's lying about the fact that her stepfather raped her at the age of 12. There's a whole bunch of legal and contemporaneous news accounts showing that this gentleman was charged with rape, and then he fled the state.

I want you to take a listen to Vivek Ramaswamy at a rally today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), OHIO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: The irony is they're lying about an ad that is about lying. That is the truth of the matter. It had nothing to do with childhood abuse, which I will be the number one governor to prosecute when I am the governor of this state because it is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Obviously, the ad is about Amy Acton's mom that she hasn't seen since she was 12, and the state took her away from this woman and her stepdad who was raping her and Amy Acton's mom accusing her of lying about that rape. What's your take on all this?

I'm sorry we lost Congresswoman Deborah Ross from North Carolina. We'll bring her back if we can.

In the meantime, the only independent member of the House of Representatives joins me live next. What does he think about the midterm landscape with just 11 days to go?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: And our Politics Lead, new developments in the Trump administration's efforts to alter election results, this time in California. Today, the U.S. Justice Department took the unusual step of appealing its voting lawsuit against the state before a court could even issue a ruling.

The Trump administration seeking an emergency order to temporarily block California from counting some 20,000 mail-in ballots, the Justice Department alleging that the ballots are from non-U.S. citizens. It's a claim that it cannot seem to confidently and fully back up.

Here's the top Justice Department official Trent McCotter on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRENT MCCOTTER, ACTING DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There may be some names on there who it turns out ultimately are citizens. We're not perfect, and that's why we've asked California to cooperate with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The Justice Department initially filed the case last week when early voting was well underway in the state. And California election officials say initial reviews of the list raise questions about how reliable that list is.

Let's bring in Congressman Kevin Kiley of California. He left the Republican Party in March to become the only independent member in the U.S. House.

So, Congressman, despite the Justice Department's uncertainty, as you heard from them there, about how many people on the list are actually not citizens, President Trump is asserting that those 20,000 names could be just the start. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That was just a batch, 20,000 absolutely fraudulent in California for voting. And it could be 100,000. It could be 300 or 500,000. California's very corrupt voting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your take?

REP. KEVIN KILEY (I-CA): Well, I don't know why this is happening now. We shouldn't be filing lawsuits and contesting ballots and registrations like literally on the eve of the election when voting is already underway. That's not good for faith in the process.

Do I think that California's voter rolls could be better maintained? I think there's a pretty broad consensus about that. Our U.S. senator, Alex Padilla, has said that. But the way to deal with that is not by filing lawsuits as people are actually voting.

TAPPER: The timing of the lawsuit, as you note, it's a major point of contention. The suit was filed less than three weeks before the midterm election. California election officials have said complying with this Justice Department request and isolating ballots would make it virtually impossible to certify election results in time.

[18:45:07]

What do you make of the timing of the lawsuit? Do you think the Trump administration is even operating in good faith here?

KILEY: I think the timing is troubling. I think that we're in the middle of an election. The election should be decided based upon the issues and who people want to see in office.

We shouldn't be litigating issues related to voter rolls or ballots or anything like that right now. If there was going to be anything like this, it should have happened a long time ago, should have worked the issues out well in advance of any voting.

TAPPER: So, you just heard President Trump say that all those 20,000 are fraudulent, even though the Justice Department doesn't even say that. And it could be even more it could be up to 500,000. Is he telling the truth?

KILEY: Well, I certainly haven't seen the evidence of that. I mean, where there have been issues in the past, it's been on a much smaller scale, like in 2018, the California DMV did admit that because of a software error, there were I think it was 1,200 or so people improperly registered. So, you know, claims like that require evidence. And I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it.

TAPPER: Let's turn to your house race in California's newly redrawn Sixth Congressional District, the Sacramento area. You and Democratic doc -- Democratic candidate, Dr. Richard Pan, appear neck and neck in the polls.

The district does lean left. How steep a climb is this for you in this environment?

KILEY: You know, honestly, we're getting an amazing response from voters in our district who are really frustrated with what's happening in Washington, but are also frustrated with what's happening in Sacramento.

And so, our message of holding both sides accountable, being a check against overreaching policies in Sacramento and Washington, working to stop policies that raise costs, whether it's gas taxes in California or tariffs in Washington, D.C., and trying to get the two sides to come together to lower costs rather than blaming each other for the high cost of living. That's really resonating with people at a time when, as you say, there's a lot of frustration all the way around.

TAPPER: Do you think that switching from the Republican Party to independent has impacted your race?

KILEY: I think it's been the right thing for my district and for our state and for the country. And the interesting thing is, when I talk to people on the campaign trail, sure, there's, you know, like half the country at this point is actually independent themselves. But even people who are Democrats, who are Republicans, who are other parties, they find it really refreshing, this idea that we can just put the party label aside and focus on the issues.

I think that everyone agrees that partisanship has just gotten out of control, and people really like the idea of a representative who doesn't serve any other agenda than answering directly to them. My constituents.

TAPPER: So if the Democrats recapture the House, which is kind of being predicted by, by polls, how are you going to vote for speaker? I mean, the last time you voted for speaker, I assume you voted for the current House speaker, Mike Johnson. Would you vote for Hakeem Jeffries? Would you join that coalition in order to if you -- if you win, I mean, to help your district theoretically

KILEY: I would look at who the candidates are. And yeah, I'd see who's going to be best for my district. I mean, I think there's a threshold question. I'd want to make sure that whoever it is is going to give independents the ability to serve on committees and be treated fairly as members of the House of Representatives. But like any other issue, I will look at what is the impact going to be on my district and vote accordingly.

TAPPER: So, theoretically, if Hakeem Jeffries, if Democrats take the House and Hakeem Jeffries said to you, join our caucus, I'll take your vote. We'll count your seniority, and you'll just join. You know, you'll just get in line according to your seniority. You could have you might support him. You might vote for him.

KILEY: Well, of course, there'd be a lot of other considerations, but I wouldn't rule anything out in advance. I think that's, you know, what my constituents expect of me is to evaluate each issue, each candidate, on the merits, to hear from them, and to make a decision as to what's going to be best for the folks that I represent.

TAPPER: Congressman Kevin Kiley of California, thank you so much. We have extended an invitation to the Democratic candidate, Dr. Richard Pan, to come on the show anytime. Filmmaker Judd Apatow piece together a lifetime of comedian Norm

MacDonald's most iconic clips in his new documentary. What's his favorite Norm MacDonald joke? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:36]

(BEGGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM MACDONALD, COMEDY LEGEND: Thanks. I'm Norm MacDonald. And now the fake news. Well. it is finally official. Murder is legal in the state of California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And our pop culture lead today, that is iconic stand-up comedian Norm MacDonald, who not only helmed "Saturday Night Live's" Weekend Update desk. He also wrote and starred in the film "Dirty Work", headline news -- headlined his own TV sitcom, hosted a podcast and his own Netflix show, and before he passed away a few years ago.

He is the subject of a new documentary out now on Netflix by director Judd Apatow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACDONALD: It's funny, with Saturday Night Live, isn't it, that people either go on to huge fame or they fizzle into oblivion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then there's, you know.

MACDONALD: No, but --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They won't go away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why would they fire you?

MACDONALD: This guy Don Ohlmeyer, turns out to be the president, he goes, I'm firing you there from the show. And then I said, oh, that's not good. Yeah.

And then I said, why is that now? And he goes, oh, no, you're not, you know, you're not funny. And then I said, I said, oh Lord, that's even worse news. You know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Norm MacDonald fired from Weekend Update for telling too many O.J. Simpson jokes. Don Ohlmeyer, who was best friends with O.J. Simpson the murderer, died in 2017 and perhaps ended up being best known for firing Norm MacDonald.

Here now, director, producer, author of "Comedy Nerd: A Lifelong Obsession in Stories and Pictures," and also the director of this great documentary that just dropped a few days ago, Judd Apatow. Judd, great to see you as always.

So I was a fan of -- fan of Norm's for decades, as were you, obviously. You got to work with him. Of course, you both wrote material for the sitcom "Roseanne".

For this film, it seems like you watched pretty much every clip that exists from Norm's career. Let me ask you, what's your favorite Norm joke or Norm moment, and why do you think he remains so big online?

JUDD APATOW, DIRECTOR, "NORM: THE TALE OF NORM MACDONALD": I mean, there are so many great Norm moments that when you started stacking them up, you couldn't believe how many times he was historically funny. I really like the Bob Saget roast, which I think is what you're showing there, where he didn't want to make fun of Bob Saget. I don't know if he just didn't like the roast format.

And so, he basically read jokes out of a joke book to almost dead silence for about 14 minutes.

TAPPER: So good.

APATOW: And -- but he loved Bob. And then at the end he said, you know, I love you to Bob. and I think everyone was really blown away by his -- his technique there.

TAPPER: There are moments. I mean, one of the things about his delivery is you don't know if he's being sincere or if he's joking sometimes, for instance, he jokes about dropping out of high school. And you put up an article showing that he actually graduated from high school at the age of 14.

And there was this push and pull about whether or not he was ever telling the truth about his own life, or whether he was just mining his imagination for comedy

APATOW: And I don't think we ever figured it out. That's why we took this approach with the documentary, to just show archival, to just show Norm talking. We didn't interview anybody because we didn't think anyone could really, you know, figure out exactly who he was.

And a lot of times he would make stuff up in interviews in a very Bob Dylan-esque way. And after I showed the documentary to his brother Neil, who is a, you know, a famous journalist in Canada, he said that he asked Norm once, why do you make stuff up? Sometimes when people ask you questions? And he said, because I don't owe anybody the truth. I only owe them my comedy.

TAPPER: So I got to know Norm a little bit just through Twitter and texting. And I was actually kind of surprised. I kind of assumed he would be a little bit more conservative, but his politics we're almost impossible to pin down.

What did you discover about his political opinions?

APATOW: Well, one thing he said was that he liked to provoke people. So, if he thought you would be annoyed by him seeming to lean a certain way, he would lean that way, right. Just to get a rise out of you. And he did that on "The View" very famously, where he talked about all these conspiracy theories around Bill Clinton. And it really bothered Barbara Walters. Right. And then he wouldn't stop doing it.

But I think what he said elsewhere was that he thought both parties have some ideas he agrees with. And it seemed ridiculous that you had to choose one or the other.

TAPPER: You've also made some great documentaries about Mel Brooks and Garry Shandling and George Carlin, Maria Bamford, with also just released on Netflix.

What keeps -- I mean, I know you love comedians and I know you've loved them since you were in high school, and you and I have talked about this on air before. But what keeps drawing you to do these documentaries about them?

APATOW: I don't know, it must be a personal problem of my own that I need to make these documentaries, because I think, you know, life is really hard. And these comedians, they turn all of this pain and struggle into comedy that makes people happy. And it's really interesting to know what they learned in life and how it affected their art.

And I love Maria Bamford and Norm MacDonald because they never followed trends. They never adjust what they do to be more successful. They're just completely authentic. And I think that's very rare these days because everyone's trying to figure out the algorithm and, and to, you know, advance their careers. But there are two people who I think don't even know how you would adjust to be more popular.

TAPPER: Yeah, it's really great. And my wife joined me watching it because she heard me laughing and she came in and I think she, I mean, I just was -- I worshiped him from the moment I saw him on SNL. And I think she finally understood it when she watched her documentary.

And you can watch "Norm: The Tale of Norm MacDonald" on Netflix right now.

Jed, always great to have you on. Thanks so much.

APATOW: Thank you.

TAPPER: Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION," Attorney General Todd Blanche and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern, only on CNN. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, and on TikTok @JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT", picks up CNN's coverage right now. I will see you Monday.