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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Suspect In Maine Mass Shootings Is Dead; Massacre Suspect Dead By Apparent Suicide; Suspect In Maine Mass Shooting Found Dead. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 27, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, Kaitlan, it really boils down if we look at it there, is what did the National Guard in New York, where they intervened with him in that incident, what opportunity did they have to pass that on to authorities in Maine where he lived, where he was going back to, where he served with other soldiers, and where, what action did they take or not take, what did they miss?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, a lot of big questions that remain. John Miller, thank you for your reporting and your perspective on this.
MILLER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: We'll continue watching as we are waiting any moment now for the authorities in Lewiston, Maine, to hold a press conference after we have gotten confirmation from a sheriff in the area that the suspected shooter there has been found dead. More answers to come, hopefully.
Our special coverage of this breaking news event continues right now with Abby Phillip.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Abby Phillip. Let me get you straight to the breaking news here. The suspect in the mass shooting that took place in Maine, killing 18 people, is now dead. That is according to the sheriff, sources say, from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
And at any moment, as you can see there, we are expecting a news conference from authorities in Maine, Maine State Police, on the death of the 40-year-old Robert Card, who's the suspect in this mass shooting.
Now, law enforcement sources tell CNN's John Miller that Card was found in an area near the recycling center from which he had recently been fired. Card is accused of murdering 18 innocent people, wounding 13 others, in a shooting rampage at two different sites this week, a bowling alley and a restaurant in the small city of Lewiston.
Now, it is the deadliest mass shooting in the United States this year in a nation that, unfortunately, sees all too many of these incidents. I want to go straight now to the site of where this body was found.
CNN Correspondent Brian Todd is in Lisbon, Maine. Brian, tell us a little bit of where you are, what this I'm going to show you a little bit of what this area is like. It's pitch black now, but what is it like in the daylight? Can you give us any clues about how this man was found?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Abby, this is kind of a small part of the town of Lisbon, which is a small town in and of itself. It's kind of almost a strip mall kind of an area here, but there are woods right behind me here.
I'm going to show you kind of the scene. This is the area that we're going to be talking about. This is the area where we believe he was found dead.
The police are blocking us from getting any closer. You can see they're taking this very seriously. They've got some tactical weapons. They've got two police officers manning either side of this intersection and a car blocking us.
But what we believe is the site is behind this Walgreens over here down the street. And according to our sources, John Miller, Josh Campbell, Evan Perez, he was found in a wooded area right near the recycling facility. That recycling facility, again, we're almost certain, is just down here kind of in the darkness over here, behind that Walgreens and the police are, of course, heavily protecting it.
There's another police vehicle over here, again, all these officers with tactical weapons, making sure that nobody gets anywhere near there.
So, this is the area and, again, stressing that we know that he worked at Maine Recycling, and these are, we think, a couple of different recycling facilities that are grouped very close together right back there and he was fired from that job recently, according to John Miller.
So, you know, again we we've got had various accounts throughout the week from colleagues who worked with him at least one colleague who worked with him at this recycling center, did tell another news outlet about him behaving erratically and acting violently and some of the co-workers there being concerned about him. But, again, this is where he worked down here, where he lost his job recently and we believe there are woods back there and that's where he was found. Abby?
PIHLLIP: And, Brian, this is an area that has some significance for a couple of different reasons. One, I believe, that his vehicle was found in that area but also this is where he once worked. So, had police been searching in that area prior to today?
TODD: Well, we do know they have been, Abby, because our CNN team, our colleague, Shimon Prokupecz, and his team were here yesterday when they were searching and they reported that the police kind of rushed all the journalists kind of away from that area, did not let them get close. So, we know that they were searching this area yesterday, and, of course, we're just now learning that the body was discovered. The big question is how long has it been there.
If they were searching this whole area yesterday, and, of course, we don't hear about it now, it leads you to maybe ask some questions that he come here sometime today or tonight and kill himself. But that's what that's what we know, that we know that they were searching that area. Also one of our colleagues who was here yesterday did report that that boat landing close to where he left his car right at that boat landing is a fairly short walking distance from this area.
[22:05:00]
Now, we're just kind of coming into this area getting the lay of the land. I'm not sure exactly how far but, apparently, there's some kind of a walking trail between this area and that boat landing. So, it's not too far away from that. He did ditch his car there shortly after the shootings. And it looks, maybe, if you put all of that together, that maybe he didn't go too far. But, again, maybe we'll get some details on that in the news conference.
PIHLLIP: Yes. Brian, stand by for us. I'm going to go now to CNN Senior Crime and Justice Correspondent Shimon Prokupecz, who is at this press conference that's set to begin any moment now.
Shimon, you've been in this area this week as this manhunt has unfolded, but you were at that site where Brian was just talking to us from around the time that police were searching it. Can you give us more of a sense of how large is that area? And, frankly, 48 hours later, that seems to be a prime, potential location for where the suspect could have been. Are you surprised to see that they ultimately found him there?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am kind of surprised, because we know that police were in that area yesterday, searching around 3:00 in the afternoon. We were actually getting ready to do a live shot at that location right where Brian is standing when police swarmed that area, they closed off the street. We tried to get up the block to see what was going on. They wouldn't let us up the street. They were searching an area.
We were told by a law enforcement officer on the ground there that there was a building connected to the suspect that they were searching. And it actually all happened around the time when we were getting indications that police were searching the suspect's home. They may have found a note, information at his home, which then led them to this location.
The one thing I want to say is, today, as more law enforcement officials converged to this location, more enforcement, more officers came in, they started searching deeper into the woods. And I think perhaps maybe this is what led to this discovery. Maybe there was more of an outside search, maybe they didn't go in as deep into the woods because they just didn't have the teams to do it. I don't know. Perhaps that's one of the things we'll wait to see, because today they certainly stepped up many of the searches. They went in deeper into the woods than we have seen in the past two days. We actually -- me and my team, we actually walked along the trail, going from the boat launch to a trail that actually leads into this recycling area, which he could have easily taken once he dumped his car and walked over to this area.
So, clearly, police knew about this area. They had some information that he was connected to this area, which led them to the location yesterday when they did the search. They went back today and, obviously, this is the information we're getting. Hopefully, this press conference will start soon.
I can tell you, you can see people behind me here, people are shaking hands. Many of the officials here, the mayor is here standing behind me of Lewiston and other officials who've been here every day since this happened, there is a sense of relief here tonight that I have not seen or felt since I've been here. People are smiling. Something about this has certainly changed the mood here. One part of this is over. We are now onto the next part, of course, the grieving.
But there is a sense of relief here that you can feel. People, for the first time, are smiling. We are waiting for more officials to come here. You can tell many folks here. This news has caught them by surprise. So, that's why this press conference is going to be delayed, because they're waiting for many of the other law enforcement officials, the people who were here searching and who have been leading these agencies to get here so they can start this press conference.
But two things here are very important. Obviously, the threat for this community, for the people who live in Lisbon, who have been suffering greatly, the people in Lewiston who have been suffering greatly because this happened in their community, they can put some of this fear behind them and now begin what they really need to do, and that is get together, plan vigils, remember those who were killed here and get together as a community to grieve. And that is the next step here now, Abby.
PIHLLIP: Absolutely, Shimon. I want to just tell those who are watching, we are awaiting a news conference right now in the massacre that occurred in Maine. The suspect there has been found dead and authorities in Maine are about to brief us. We've been given a two- minute warning, so less than two minutes now for this to begin.
So, in the meantime, I want to just go to John Miller for just a moment.
[22:10:03]
John, your sources told you that this suspect had been found dead. Can you give us any indication about the timing here? Was it something that just occurred or were they not sure whether they had found their guy?
MILLER: Well, we understand that this happened somewhere in the area of 8:00. We're going to learn that in a couple of minutes with more precision. But the burning question, Abby, is, is this something where he apparently self-inflicted a gunshot wound, and did that happen today or is this a place where he went that was out of the way enough that he had been there for some time and just had not been discovered?
And that's one of the questions we're anxious to learn the answer to, because it tells us whether he's been hiding and managed not to be seen by anybody, at least anybody who reported it, or police for 48 hours, or whether this happened in a more rapid succession, which is he does the shootings at the two locations allegedly, he drives to the end of a road in a wooded area where there's a boat launch, and then he ends up on the other side of that river in a place where that is familiar to him.
So, how did he get across that river if that information is accurate, why that place, some of the things we're waiting to hear.
PIHLLIP: Yes. Actually quite a lot of questions unanswered here, including, as we were just discussing with both Shimon and with Brian Todd, this is an area that has some resonance to this suspect, and, similarly, the two locations where he carried out these massacres also did.
So, John, as someone who's been in law enforcement for a long time, I'll ask you, does it surprise you that this location ultimately was where he was found and that it was not pretty thoroughly searched very early on in this process to see if he was there? MILLER: So, that's a good question and one question is, you know,
what did the river have to do with it? Did they confine their immediate search to the side of the river where they found the car on the idea that he might have been moving on foot, or did they expand to that other area before the second day?
But to get to the core of the beginning of your question, if you look at offender characteristics among people involved in mass shootings or active shooter situations, you see that most of these are kind of grievance-driven, grievance at work or grievance at school or grievance with a social circle and feelings of rejection. So, that's a good question.
So, if you kind of look at this case and break it down, he had a mental health episode in the Army where he said -- in the National Guard, where he said he was hearing voices and hearing things that made him think about hurting other soldiers.
That ended up with him under psychiatric observation for a period of time. That's a stressor, okay? He's suffering from likely depression, sounds like paranoia, and other mental health issues at that time. And then he loses his job. And we understand where he was found may have been in the vicinity of the place where he lost that job. And then we are told by law enforcement sources he broke up with a woman he'd been in a relationship with.
So, if you take that as grievances, he had a problem with the National Guard and a problem at work that caused him to lose that job and relationship issues that caused his relationship to break up. And where does he go? He goes out in the town where he was a part of the fabric, one of those who enjoyed hunting and fishing and to the places where he had been before with the person he was having a relationship with and he strikes out.
So, in some ways, much less than a mystery, Abby, he's almost a case study of what the active shooter, what the mass shooter looks like based on prior cases and indicators.
PIHLLIP: And including that, as you're reporting and the reporting of our team show, that this was believed to be a death by a self- inflicted gunshot wound.
I want to come now into the studio here with me is CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez, also has been working his sources on this story all week. Evan, this press conference that is about to begin, this might be a time where we hear quite a lot more about this investigation.
[22:15:06]
Do you expect that they will be in a position to provide more details?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, now that he has been found, that he is obviously found deceased, I think they will be a lot freer to be able to provide some details.
I mean, one of the questions that we all have is, you know, we know that they were searching this area, how long -- when did this happen? When did they believe that this happened?
We know they searched this area very thoroughly. Certainly, Shimon was there on scene as they were doing some of the initial searches. It's one of the first places they went to. So, the question is, was he somewhere in the woods there and then turned up and then finally ended this.
To John's point, I think there's a lot of this that really matches up with what we've seen in a lot of these shootings before. And, unfortunately, Abby, you know, this country, we've had so many of these things.
And you know for those of us, me, John, a few others, you know we've done so many of these, we almost know the script. This one has been a little different in the fact that not only do you have two scenes of shootings, right, massacring people, he also gets away for some period. And so that's unusual.
So, the question that we have that we're going to hear from a little bit hopefully today is a little more about this investigation, what they've been able to determine, maybe when did this happen, and perhaps a little more about his connection to these two places where he carried out this massacre because it's clear he knew these two places and had a lot of connections to that community.
PIHLLIP: All right. The authorities are walking in. We're going to listen into this press conference that's happening right now.
GOV. JANET MILLS (D-ME): Thank you. Thank you very much for coming, excuse me, coming here on short notice. I stand here tonight to simply report that the Maine State Police have located the body of Robert Card in Lisbon. He is dead. I've called President Biden to inform him about this news. I've informed Senator King, Senator Collins, Representative Pingree and Representative Golden.
Commissioner Sauschuck will describe the circumstances of that discovery in some detail in a few moments. But this discovery is entirely thanks to the hundreds of local, county, state, and federal law enforcement members from all over, and people from other states as well, people who searched tirelessly to arrive at this moment.
And on behalf of all Maine people, I want to express my profound gratitude for their unwavering bravery and determination and fortitude, and for the leadership of Lewiston Police Chief -- where you go? Right there, that guy, Lewiston Police Chief St. Pierre.
Like many people, I'm breathing a sigh of relief tonight knowing that Robert Card is no longer a threat to anyone.
I know there are some people, many people who share that sentiment, but I also know that his death may not bring solace to many. But now is the time to heal. And with this search concluded, I know that law enforcement continues to fully investigate all the facts so we can bring what closure we can to the victims and their families.
And I ask that all Maine people continue to keep those families and all of the people impacted by this tragedy in their thoughts and prayers.
Lewiston is a special place. This isn't us. Lewiston is a great place. It's a close-knit community of fine people, people with a long history, a history of hard work, of persistence, of faith, of opening its big heart to people everywhere. And tonight, the city of Lewiston and the state of Maine begin to move forward on what will be a long and difficult road to healing, but we will heal together.
[22:20:04]
Thank you.
And, again, my deepest gratitude, gratitude of all the people of the state of Maine, to these wonderful members of law enforcement who came from all over to help us solve this crime and put closure on this investigation. Robert Card is dead.
Now, I'm going to turn it over to Commissioner Sauschuck.
MIKE SAUSCHUCK, MAINE COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Thank you very much, Governor. We truly do appreciate all of your support. I think it's incredibly important that the next person that speaks this evening is Lewiston's chief law enforcement champion, and that is Dave St. Pierre. Dave?
CHIEF DAVID ST. PIERRE, LEWISTON POLICE: Thank you, Mike. And thank you, Governor, for allowing me this opportunity. Bear with me, please. I certainly did not have much time to prepare a speech here.
I want to say to everybody, thank you so much. Our community can now breathe a sigh of relief, as the Governor stated, and I can't echo that enough.
Our work, again, is not done here. I was very elated tonight when I got the call from Commissioner Sauschuck advising me of the revelation of what took place and that Mr. Card is deceased and no longer a threat to our community or any other community.
I just don't want to forget the families that are grieving and will continue to grieve. I don't want to forget the law enforcement officials that have worked tirelessly throughout this whole event to come to a good conclusion. Our men and women of the Lewiston Police Department, of all of our surrounding agencies we have with us, Chief McGee here from Lisbon, where Mr. Card was found. This is vitally important to all of us that this conclusion came to light tonight.
We're going to grieve for the families that lost loved ones here. We're going to continue to work, we're going to persevere, and we've become better people for it in terms of working together as teams. We've learned a lot from some mistakes. We've won a lot of accomplishments this evening.
Again, I wasn't really prepared for this on a Friday night at 10:30, but I'm very happy to be here and very happy to say the threat is over. Thank you.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)?
ST. PIERRE: Sure. So, our officers are being notified now as we speak. Some know obviously sooner than others. There are many that are still home, they're home with their families. And I'm quite certain at this point in time, we all know about this. This is something that all of our law enforcement personnel, ours in any surrounding community has been paying very close attention to in awaiting positive news or good news. And this is by far the best news we've had in quite some time.
REPORTER: Was there any belief at this time that the suspect was dead before finding him or did this come as a brand-new revelation that he never saw coming before this?
SAUSCHUCK: So, our reality here is that this search has been extensive. It's been thorough. It's been non-stop since the minute we started speaking with you in long before that. So, all of these options are on the table, as we knew. We continue to search locations, in some cases, multiple times. And we will have more information about exactly how this went down.
We're going to have another briefing tomorrow morning at 10:00. And I would please encourage you to think about next steps from your ends, information that you would find important.
And I will say that this is not going to be a long Q&A this evening. We wanted to make sure that we got this information out as fast as possible and as responsible as possible. And what I mean by that is that the time between the notification of the press release and now, there wasn't a lot of details there. There wasn't a lot of details there because we wanted to talk to the victims' families. We wanted to say this is coming. It's important that they heard that information as close to first as anybody else.
And you know who else we called, was the family of the suspect. And they lost a loved one in this scenario. And there were many of that family that was very cooperative with us throughout. So, they deserve that phone call.
So, we had those conversations tonight before joining you here. We also got a chance to spend some time with the brothers and sisters of law enforcement and our public safety partners that have been so incredibly helpful over the last few days, to say the least.
So, one second. So, right here, sir.
REPORTER: Where exactly did you find him and what exactly did you find him?
SAUSCHUCK: So, at 7:45 this evening is when Mr. Card was located.
[22:25:02]
I won't give you an exact address. It was near the river along Androscoggin in Lisbon Falls was the actual location.
Ma'am, did you have a question? Ma'am, did you have a question?
REPORTER: When did you -- when do you think he died?
SAUSCHUCK: That all remains to be seen, right? So, our reality is that we found that body at 7:45 and it's 10:25 now. So, there continues to be a lot of work that needs to be done here at the scene with the medical examiner's office. So, there's a much, much more follow-up to what happened.
Sir, did you have a question?
REPORTER: Any indication that you have an accomplice and how was he found?
SAUSCHUCK: I won't be able to answer either one of those questions at this point, accomplices and things of that nature. We've had no indication of that since the very beginning. But as we've talked about before, these next steps are going to be -- it gives us an opportunity to do things as fast as we can in the sense that we want to provide closure and information, but also slow things down a little bit because we need to look at video evidence. We need to look at the various pieces of technology that are in play here, and hopes that that gives us some additional information around some of the things that you're going to be concerned about.
Yes ma'am?
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) have you searched previously in this recycling center not found anything? And (INAUDIBLE)?
SAUSCHUCK: Yes, I'm happy to take a look at that information in hopes that I can get that back to you tomorrow morning at 10:00. That remains to be seen. Again, we have attorney generals that we need to work with and other individuals that are in play here.
I'm going to take a couple more questions, again, with the mindset that it's 10:00 tonight, and we do want to come back tomorrow morning to have this going. Right here.
REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) the shelter-in-place this afternoon. So, why this afternoon? Were you just looking for remains or how did you make that decision to lift that shelter-in-place?
SAUSCHUCK: Yes, sure. So, I think that that was an ongoing conversation since the minute we actually put that in place. We knew that that was an important decision. Certainly from our perspective, it made complete sense to put that order in place immediately based on the violent nature and the traumatic nature of these crimes.
And as things progress over the next few days, since Wednesday to now, we've had a lot of conversations with various town and city leadership, with the governor's office, with Chief St. Pierre, with business owners, with residents, and we have to have that balancing act of pluses and minuses.
And we had that initial surge with those communities, and those communities made perfect sense for an order. And as things tended to slow down, we didn't have any immediate threats. We made the decision to back off that.
I would also just want to mention this because a fellow commissioner had asked me to do this, and I could walk out of here forgetting it. But Commissioner Camuso said that and passed along that actually that hunting restriction has been lifted as well. So, the resident hunting opportunity for tomorrow is open across the state of Maine, to include those four communities. There's a lot of phone calls that she would receive around that.
But right here, ma'am.
REPORTER: There were reports that he was found with self-inflicted gunshot wound. Can you confirm that?
SAUSCHUCK: Yes, I can confirm that. It is an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound?
Did you have a question, ma'am?
REPORTER: I'm sorry, I just wanted to follow up. Did you search that area before, as I understand it? Can you explain why he was on the job this other time? Did you search this area?
SAUSCHUCK: I didn't state that we had searched that area before. So --
REPORTER: Chief of Lewiston Police Department, sir.
SAUSCHUCK: Okay. As we have stated in the past, we try to use information that we can confirm one way or the other. So, your reporting can say something one way or the other, and that's fine. We can talk about that again tomorrow morning. But I think we're done taking questions for this evening.
Thank you very much for your patience and we will see you soon. Thank you very much.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Let's go.
PHILIP: All right. You were just listening to three different Maine officials, including the governor of the state, Janet Mills, speaking there. Last at the podium was Maine Public Safety Commissioner Michael Sauschuk. And he provided a little bit of information, though, I have to say not a huge amount of information tonight. They will be briefing again tomorrow morning.
But the suspect was found, according to the public safety commissioner, at 7:45 P.M. tonight. He was found near the river. That's in the area not very far from where his vehicle was originally found. And they would not provide information because the investigation is ongoing about whether the suspect was found dead and actually died today. So, we're still waiting to learn about when he actually died.
[22:30:02]
They did confirm, however, that it was via a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
I want to go back to our own John Miller who first reported this for us on CNN.
John, you were listening into that press conference. Again, not a huge amount of detail about the where and the how of how this came about. But what did you glean from listening to the remarks that we just heard?
MILLER: So, we gleaned the what we do know and what we don't know, at least as of tonight. So, as you said, what we do know is he died of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.
The word apparently is because that body is still at the scene and the medical examiner is going to have to examine that scene and then make his or her own determination on cause of death, whether that's self- inflicted gunshot wound or something else. It is entirely likely that that, of course, will be the case if it is what it appears to be.
We also learned that it was in Lisbon Falls along the banks of the Androscoggin River, that is, at some point, the back end of the recycling center where he once worked and where we are told by sources he was discharged fairly recently. So, that could go to explain if he took his own life, why he picked that spot and what it meant to him. And that is basically what we learned. The things we don't know are -- is it that he showed up in that spot
today, having evaded police for a period of almost two days at that point, and did he take his own life right there? Or did he do that right after the shootings?
The Commissioner and the Chief didn't really address that, and they probably won't be able to until the medical examiner really examines that body and comes up with a time of death and some judgment about how long that body has been in that place.
PHILLIP: That's exactly right. I think they seem to be just really pretty fresh off of this. I want to just explain to our viewers what we heard in the press conference, which is that authorities in Maine said that they withheld this information for a couple of hours in order to notify family members of the 18 victims of the shooting and the 13 others who are injured, as well as the family of the suspect himself who have been cooperating with this investigation.
I want to go back now to Shimon Procupecz, who is at the press conference. And we heard you, Shimon, asking a lot of questions and trying to get quite a few answers. I understand and I see your frustration there. Tell us what you learned and what we still need to learn about what happened here.
SHIMON PROCUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly we need to learn whether or not this location was searched yesterday. We were there yesterday. And so, you know, just basic questions about what transpired here during their search yesterday.
Did they go in to this area? We know we were there yesterday and we saw them searching this area for whatever reason and maybe the Commissioner just didn't have the answers to this. We understand that it's -- you know all this is put together very late.
But the Lisbon Police Department chief who I've been dealing with on a daily basis was here. It was his team that was back there in this area searching yesterday. So, we just simply wanted to ask those questions but for whatever reason they don't want to answer those questions tonight.
I think it's incredibly important to point out that they notified the families or most of the families before they announced this and I think that's been probably an incredible moment for these families to hear from the Commissioner, from the law enforcement officials before they had to hear it from us here in the press, in the media.
I also just think, you know, today it was incredible to watch the law enforcement officials here announce the names of the victims, where they took the names and they attached photos to the names. I've never seen that done before from law enforcement officials and I thought that was a very touching moment. And it's good to see that they're being respectful of the families here.
But there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered in terms of the circumstances surrounding this and you know, they've been trying to control the message and we get it and they've not wanted to answer certain questions.
But now the investigation is over. There's no prosecution of an individual. That individual is dead.
[22:35:00]
So, hopefully come tomorrow at 10 A.M. where they're supposed to have their next press conference, they will be able to answer some more questions.
PHILLIP: And Shimon, you make such an important point. We were just showing moments ago the images of the victims of this horrible tragedy. And I just want to take a moment as we're sitting here. We are obviously interested in learning as much as we can about what happened here.
But I want to take a moment to just remember these individuals because a normal day for them at a restaurant and at a bowling alley turned into an absolute nightmare and their families are broken.
This news tonight, I'm sure for this community, is just a mixture of emotions. People are terrified. They've been locked in their homes for two days now, unsure if there was a killer on the loose. But now we know today that that man, that suspect, is dead, died by apparent suicide.
I want to go now to Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Director of the FBI. Andrew, you and I have spoken about this just in the last couple of days. The chances of someone being on the loose for 48 hours in an area like this really raised a lot of questions about what could the real possibilities be.
Are you surprised to learn that his body was found where it was found in an area that, yes it is wooded, but there are things around it, a recycling facility, a Walgreens, other facilities. What does that tell you about what may have happened here?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, unfortunately, we're still kind of left guessing about the significance of a lot of these locations. Hopefully, some of that will get cleared up tomorrow morning at the next presser.
But it's a really interesting location for this to have come to an end. If you -- there's only about a mile between the recycling facility where he worked and the -- I think it's called the Paper Mill Trail, Miller Park area where the boat launch is located. That is on the smaller river that leads into the Androscoggin.
I don't remember the name of it, but it's right there where that river meets the Androscoggin. And there is a trail that runs right along the Androscoggin River. It's about a mile in length between the boat launch and the recycling center, main recycling.
So, you know, again, we are -- we're theorizing here because we don't have -- we haven't been given many facts to work with, but it's a wooded area. But as you said, Abby, it's bordered by some streets, some industrial facilities, some other businesses.
Lisbon High School is not far away. There are some wooded areas in there. You are right along the river. It's entirely possible that he took that trail right from the parking lot where he left his car and walked one mile to the vicinity of the recycling center.
If that's the case, he certainly picked a spot that had the same sort of personal significance as both the bar and the bowling alley. Those have been reported as places he used to go to with his girlfriend, recycling center, he used to work there.
So, it's really, and for me, the thing that really rings is the last lead that we had on his location was the night of the shooting, the location of his vehicle. And so, that's where the trail stopped.
And so, it's really the very logical place where you would continue to look out in every direction. And a walking trail that leads off of that parking lot in the direction of his former place of employment certainly would be a logical place to --
PHILLIP: Andrew --
MCCABE: -- to invest your --
PHILLIP: Andrew, I'm going to have to interrupt you. Shimon Procupecz, we're going to go back to him now. He is there at the site of the press conference with the Chief of Lisbon Police. Shimon.
PROCUPECZ: Yeah, so, Chief McGee, your guys were out there, have been searching. Tell me what happened today.
RYAN MCGEE, LISBON POLICE CHIEF: So, what I'm going to say is we had an awesome response by local, state, and federal officers right across the board. I think that's paramount. I think at this point forward, we all had heard the message from the Department of Public Safety and he was pretty clear about it and he's going to come back tomorrow morning and have further information and we're going to allow that to come directly from him.
I think right now, the biggest thing I can say is we really all need to just come together and think about the families and the victims and everything that happened. We have a great community. Maine's a great state, you know, we're just moving forward. It's been a long day for all of you.
[22:40:00]
It's been a long day for all of my officers. But as far as all the details tomorrow, he'll be talking about them.
PROCUPECZ: For your community, the people in Lisbon, I was there this morning at the supermarket, finally reopened. People were in tears inside, just out of fear. What have you been hearing from your community?
MCGEE: What I've been hearing from my community is that we have a great community that's going to stick together. And I've personally been on numerous calls. And people in our community care about what goes on. I don't think it's just Lisbon. It's Lewiston. It's Thompson. Bowdoin. It's all the county, the surrounding towns.
I mean, Maine's a great state. And I think now you're going to see Maine pulled together and not be known for this horrific act, but actually come together as, you know, a family and taking care of each other.
PROCUPECZ: This location, we were at this, sort of at this area yesterday.
MCGEE: You've been everywhere, man. Every backyard I've been. I don't know how you do it, but.
PROCUPECZ: Well, thank you, but I have a question for you. This area, your team searched some of this area.
MCGEE: I'm not going to get into any details. The Commissioner was very forthcoming about that. So, I'm just going to leave it at this. Last thing I'm going to say is the relief talking just quickly everybody --
PROCUPECZ: Just quickly --
MCGEE: -- just be thinking about the families of the victims, keeping them in your thoughts and prayers. You guys, have a good night. Get some rest.
PROCUPECZ: Okay? I appreciate it. So, Abby, as I was saying earlier, this is an area that we were at yesterday with the Chief. We actually saw him. We had a little interaction, he and I, because he was throwing us out of the area. That's what he's talking about here. And he told us to leave, because we were in this area that they were searching where they found this suspect dead today.
And as you can hear from him, there is this sense of relief, not only here in Lewiston where this happened, but also in Lisbon because the people living there have been stuck in their homes for the past two days. Supermarkets closed, banks, pharmacies, they can't go to their doctors. It's been a very difficult two days.
I spoke to a woman today. We went to the supermarket to get food ourselves. And the lines in the supermarket were incredible. To the back, every lane of the supermarket to the back filled. And the fear that people were facing, they couldn't go buy food. Finally, today, they were able to go buy some food. And people were in tears over the fear that they were feeling.
So this today, this news for them is an immense relief. You know, here today being at City Hall, we walked in, people were shaking hands, they were happy, they were smiling. Obviously, the next steps here.
You also want to highlight something that's very important here. Some of the victims, four of the victims here are part of the deaf community. And you saw the governor in the beginning of the press conference give a hug to the sign language interpreter. That was an important moment.
This community -- the deaf community has been really so deeply traumatized and affected by what has happened here and that was just a very touching moment for the governor to give a hug to the sign language interpreter.
And I think there's just this sense of relief here that really is unspeakable. For the first time in so many days, people can finally smile and I think that's important to highlight and obviously for the victims what this means.
And hopefully in the coming days they can all get together and share memories of their loved ones. And we move on here, onto the investigation and onto the healing.
PHILLIP: Thank you for pointing that out, Shimon, and for being everywhere, as the Chief said, on the scene of all of these important moments in this story. Shimon, continue to stand by for us. We'll be back to you with your reporting in a moment.
Evan, I just want, you know, as Shimon was just saying, I mean, obviously this community, they are very eager to move forward. It was almost a smile on the Chief's face of relief from all of this. But, you know, this is a community that is going to be seeking answers. If you live in Lisbon, which is the last known location, as Andrew McCabe was just saying, of the suspect, 9:56 P.M. on Wednesday night, his vehicle was found there.
So, tell us a little bit about the resources that were brought to bear. It wasn't just these local police departments, state resources, federal resources. And how did they work together in this moment? And even still, it took 48 hours to find this body.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It really did. And it gives you a sense of how difficult this was, because look, this is, I mean, you've been to this area, right? In Maine, you're talking about a very big state, very sparsely populated state.
[22:45:00]
This is an area where there's not, there's a lot of places for you to hide. And you have a ton of law enforcement, dozens and hundreds of law enforcement that descended on this area. And yet, this guy was able to hide. And then we don't know exactly when this self-inflicted ending happened.
But, you know, the fact that it happened in this area where they've been searching, they've been there. And yet, you know, this is now coming to fruition. So, there's a lot of questions that are going to be answered. The medical examiner is going to determine when this death likely would have occurred.
But there's still a lot of important questions that the Maine officials need to answer because there are plenty of signs that this man was troubled. There were definitely some indications he was evaluated by mental health issue, people in Maine who allowed him, after a short evaluation, to leave.
And then, you know, apparently he decided, or he said that essentially, the threats that he had been making that caused that evaluation, that they were really just him lashing out and that there was nothing wrong.
So, there's some questions that have to be answered, main officials, about whether there could have been something that could have been done, right? There would have been something that could have been done that could have prevented the deaths of these 18 innocent people.
And this is an area, by the way, these two locations are places that he frequented. He knew these areas. It's very likely that some of these victims knew him or saw him or had seen him before. And that's a really difficult thing that I think those families are going to have to deal with.
PHILLIP: Yeah, and of course the gun purchases will also be a part of this story, too. Evan, stand by for us. The officials mentioned, of course, these families that are hurting tonight.
One of these lives that was cut short was 39-year-old Peyton Brewer Ross. He was participating in a cornhole tournament at Schemengee's Bar and Grille on Wednesday and he leaves behind a two-year-old daughter, Elle.
Peyton's brother, Ralph Brewer, joins me now. Ralph, I first want to say and offer to you my deepest condolences for the loss of your brother. And I'm sure your family is experiencing so much tonight, but what are you feeling right now? How are you doing?
RALPH BREWER, BROTHER PEYTON BREWER-ROSS WAS KILLED IN MAINE SHOOTING: Well, it's, you know, another hard moment in this entire story. We weren't expecting any of this. This just happened as it does with any of these incidents. And you know, there's no script for this. There's no way to prepare yourself, you know. And there's not just my family, there's 17 other families that are going through the same thing and it's hard.
But the fact that the law enforcement has brought this part of the journey to a close, you know, yes, there's going to be a lot of answers that need to be made and figured out, but you know, we can, you know, breathe, you know. People can, you know, go out again, people can go through and, you know, start living again, without the, you know, the fear that, you know, he's around the next corner.
And, you know, we appreciate all the hard work by, you know, all the law enforcement, all the first responders that, you know, came out and have worked tirelessly to bring us to this point. It's just, you know, we're going to need to, you know, continue on.
PHILLIP: Did you receive a phone call from officials? They mentioned reaching out to the families of those who were lost in this tragedy.
BREWER: So, we were notified tonight before the press conference by the Attorney General's office at the state of Maine, and let us know that, you know, the gunman had been found dead.
And that helped us to really understand and begin to move to that next step. And we appreciate that. Again, we appreciate everything that they've done for us during this hard time.
[22:50:00]
PHILLIP: Your brother's daughter is just two years old -- Elle.
BREWER: Yeah.
PHILLIP: I don't know how you tell a two-year-old about something like this. How is your family handling that?
BREWER: You know, Elle woke up on Wednesday morning and dad's usually there. And her first words to her mom was, where's daddy? Where's daddy? She's a big-time daddy's girl. And she's not going to have him in her life. And yeah, how do you go through and how do you -- you know, tell a two-year-old, you know, I, I don't even, I, I can't even comprehend that. I don't have an answer.
You know, we're, we're going to have to, you know, go through this together as a, as a family and figure it out. But the one thing is, is that we're, we're here for Rachel. We're here for Elle. We're here for, you know, everybody, within our family and beyond, you know. The thing is that this has brought all of these families together for this terrible event and we're forever linked.
There's -- and even the families that were wounded or the ones that were there and helped, they're forever scarred with everything that went on here today. And you know, I just, you know, I'm going to miss my brother. And I'm just, you know, I'm sure that the rest of every other family is going to miss their loved ones. And it's just another senseless act of violence.
PHILLIP: Ralph, my heart breaks for you and your entire family and you know, the community in Maine right now. It's so much loss for a place that is so small and so tight knit. It's hard to even imagine but thank you for being here. I hope that this is a moment for you and your family that you can, as you just said, move to the next phase of this process. Thank you for joining us.
BREWER: Thank you, Abby.
PHILLIP: I want to go now to Omar Jimenez, who is on the ground in this grieving community of Lewiston, of Lisbon, other neighboring communities right now. Omar, you just heard what Ralph said about this town and everyone now connected in this absolutely horrible way, holding on to each other to get through this.
What are you hearing from people who are coming out of their shelter in place to learn that the suspect is dead, but they now have to bury their loved ones?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, look, one thing that has been made clear just over the past few days talking to people here, it's not that everybody knows everybody. People also know people that know everybody. It is that tight knit of a community where it feels like one thing happens in one family, it happens to everyone.
And when the news initially broke, we're outside the bar and grill, which is the second site of where this mass shooting happened. A car tried to get through this checkpoint, obviously, still closed because they're continuing to process the scene.
And so, we asked the person, you know, why are you trying to get over there? And he said that he left his car over there. He was inside this bar when it happened. And when we asked if he just wanted to talk about it. Even in the midst of, he knew that the manhunt was over at that point, he said that he was just too traumatized by what happened. And that's a lot of what we've seen here.
Obviously, it is a sigh of relief, just like what we heard from officials that this manhunt is over and that they don't have to look over their shoulders quite as much as they have over the past 48 hours. But there is a much longer process ahead for many of these families because while at least 18 people were killed here.
As one resident told me today, he wanted to remind me and everyone covering this, that this isn't just a number of people. These are individual lives with individual wants, dreams, families, hopes, desires and everything in between.
And while it's 18 people who lost their lives, the lives that are destroyed and changed forever, that ripple from those, may be too much to count. And those are the lives that are going to be forever altered as we move forward here.
When you look at the total number of victims. As one of my colleagues noted, Josh Campbell, throughout the manhunt, we've been showing the picture of the suspect because of course that was important to try to make sure that people could find and potentially recognize this person.
[22:55:00]
But then, now, this next phase, again as my colleague Josh Campbell noted, a lot of the focus moves to the faces of these victims, the faces that will live on in this community and many other communities for much longer than this period has happened.
And Abby, one other thing I want to note is that in this press conference, we learned that the body was actually found at 7:45 P.M. tonight. It was, and then the notification didn't come out until hours later.
And what law enforcement told us was in that in-between time, they were notifying the families of the victims in this to make sure they had this news, but also the family of the suspect as well to make sure they had it, Abby.
PHILLIP: Omar Jimenez, thank you very much. I want to go now to Congresswoman Shelley Pingree, who represents the district, Lisbon, where the suspect was found. Congresswoman, thank you for joining us. Your reaction tonight to the discovery of the body of this suspect, 7:45 P.M. tonight, almost 48 hours exactly after he carried out this mass murder.
CHELLIE PINGREE, HOUSE DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE, MAINE: Well, there's so much relief in Maine and people are so grateful to all the law enforcement officers who have really been covering this territory and beyond just to make sure that this person was found. So, it's a really critically important night.
And as you were saying, it allows people to move from the fear of just stepping outside, get rid of the lockdown and be able to start the grieving and really honor those families. There can be a vigil, there can be funerals, there can be the kinds of things that people need to start the grieving process.
So, it's a very important day for us, but it's going to take a really long time. We didn't think we were the state where this was going to happen, and it's really shattered a lot of people's lives.
PHILLIP: Well, tell me more about that, because Maine is, I mean, there were more murders in this incident than the state has in an entire year. And I think a lot of people in Maine, maybe they hunt, they use guns in other ways. But as you just said, perhaps never thought that this could happen there. What happens now going forward in your state?
PINGREE: Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. So, last year we had 29 murders. This was 18. So, literally almost as many as we had in an entire year in one evening. And we are, we're a gun-owning state. We have a proud tradition of hunting. Tomorrow is actually the first day of hunting season and it was going to be stopped in the communities near where the murders occurred because people believed there could be some danger of being in the woods.
So, now, the first thing is people can actually go hunting tomorrow, which is an important part of our culture and our lives. But because we had so much gun ownership, we never thought we would have the kind of, you know, shooting that takes place in other places.
But this is a reminder to all of us that no one is immune, no community is immune. My district is actually on the border here of Lisbon and Lewiston, but Portland, Maine, most of the communities in my district for the last two days have shut down their schools, as well. Bowdoin, where the suspect lived, people have been nervous, that's in my district. That has been a scene where the police have been searching houses and looking for everything.
So, those things can stop, people can start to go back to normal, but this has really impacted our entire state because it's just such an occurrence that we never thought would happen here and having this shooter who people believed was on the loose has just caused great fear in our state.
PHILLIP: Congresswoman Chellie Pingree, thank you for joining us tonight on this breaking news.
PINGREE: Thank you so much.
PHILLIP: I want to quickly go now to Casey Jordan, a criminologist and behavioral analyst. Casey, a lot of information tonight. Your reaction as someone who studies these types of incidents.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST AND BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Well, of course, I've been covering this for the past 48 hours like everyone else. And I noted a shift this morning in the 10 A.M. presser when they really went into a great deal of detail about, you know, diving teams going into the river that I could tell there was a shift that they truly believed he was deceased by his own hand. They were not really fanning out through the woods so much. As Andrew McCabe noted earlier, that the boat launch place he was known to be.
So, it's not surprising at all to me that he was found today, apparently self-inflicted, gunshot wound. But I think that it was really important. Everyone seems to be really preoccupied with did he die two days ago, or was he on the loose, and did he just die today?
[23:00:00]
I can almost guarantee you he died two days ago within hours of committing his crime because he was decompensating on a really terrible downward spiral. So, I think our takeaways are complete relief. Our hearts are with the victims' families, of course.
But the overall message here is that the signs were there. We are never going to stigmatize mental illness, but we have to look at the fact that this was a man who got care, was in a facility for two weeks this summer, and still was able to get and keep his guns. So, let's focus on what we can learn from this from a preventive standpoint.
PHILLIP: Casey Jordan, thank you very much. And that's it for me and our special coverage does continue now with Laura Coates. She's up next, live.
