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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Democrats Pushing Biden To Avoid Touting Accomplishments At Debate; Trump Says Biden Should Be Tested For Drugs Before Debate; Democrats Push Abortion Rights Message On Roe Anniversary; Judge Cannon Seemed Not Inclined On Gag Order On Trump; Criminal Charges Recommended Against Boeing; Prime Minister Netanyahu Retracts Statement On U.S. Backed Ceasefire Deal. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 24, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

YUVAL DANZIG, SON OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE: Make everybody awake.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: If you could say one thing to your dad right now, what would it be?

DANZIG: That we're waiting for him at home, that he has to come back.

COLLINS: Hopefully the next time you're back, we are talking about him coming back. Thank you for coming back and joining me tonight.

DANZIG: Thank you.

COLLINS: And we'll continue to bring attention to his story.

DANZIG: Thank you very much.

COLLINS: Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip starts now.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: The president who says he built back better is being advised to keep voters' minds off of what's behind. That's tonight on NewsNight.

Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.

And tonight, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, they are 72 hours away from when they're due on that stage in Atlanta with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash. This week's CNN's debate may be the moment that defines this entire campaign. It is the earliest such debate in modern history. And tonight, sources are telling CNN that the president has now been told by his advisers to shy away from talking too much about what he's done for the bulk of the last three years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Washington Post suggested Republicans may have to find something else to criticize me for now that inflation is coming down. Maybe they'll decide to impeach me because it's coming down. I don't know. I love that one. Oh, anyway, it's another story. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: You'll also see a clear change of tactic in Donald Trump. He is now consistently warning that the Joe Biden that shows up on Thursday is going to look a lot livelier than the mentally in decline Joe Biden that he's been talking about for the better part of a year.

But there is a reason, unfounded and fact-free, we should add, that Trump is citing over and over again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: This brings us to the legend of Jacked Up Joe.

DONALD TRUMP JR., FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: As a doctor, you know, what sort of cocktail could they put together for him in this debate?

REP. RONNY JACKSON (R-TX): I think they're probably trying to find just the right mix of stuff that can wake him up and make him a little bit more alert and a little bit more with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you wanted to get somebody like 81-year-old Joe Biden hopped up before an appearance like the debate next Thursday, what would you give him? What could you give him?

DR. FRANK CONTACESSA, INTERNIST, CUSTOM CARE MEDICAL: I think it is conceivable and probably more likely than not that at some point they are giving the president some sort of a stimulant.

HANNITY: I don't know if it was Red Bull, I don't know if it was caffeine pills, whatever it was. I would expect fully that in ten days we will see the reemergence of Jacked Up Joe.

CONTACESSA: I would think about something along the lines of an ADD drug, Adderall, Ritalin, any amphetamine derivative, which, in short terms, if you give this to somebody in short-term, will make them more animated.

HANNITY: His heart rate was up, his eyes were bulging, his speech was fast, his behavior was weird, kind of like a kid who had coffee for the first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then you have a doddering, dishonest, machine politician, propped up by drugs, and propped up by an old fashioned organization.

TRUMP: Obviously, he's being helped some way, because most of the time, he looks like he's falling asleep, and all of a sudden he walked up there and did a poor job, but he was all jacked up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP: Joining me tonight, Scott Jennings, Bakari Sellers and Ana Navarro. Scott, God forbid, Joe Biden have a cup of coffee, he might be jacked up on something. I mean, it is also the ultimate in sort of changing the goalposts here.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. This has been like a running joke on the right since the State of the Union when the President came out and was super aggressive and yelling and so on and so forth. So, I don't know. I'm not qualified to tell you what he's going to drink or not drink before he takes the debate stage at 9:00. If it were me, I'd probably have a Diet Coke, you know?

PHILLIP: Somebody's going to have a Diet Coke and I'm not sure it's going to be Joe Biden. By the way, I mean you, you talked about how this was -- the State of the Union, they didn't do this, but I was looking back, they were doing this -- Donald Trump was doing this back in 2020 at that debate. He was claiming that Joe Biden had taken drugs.

JENNINGS: I mean, I don't know. I don't know what to say about that. It sounds like they're worried is what I'm trying to ask.

JENNINGS: Look, here's the reality. Joe Biden has been in or running for public office for over 50 years. He's probably -- there's no person on Planet Earth alive that's participated in more political debates of some kind than Joe Biden. He's the most experienced debater on the planet.

[22:05:01]

Trump has been in a few but not nearly as many as Biden. He is the president which means he's dealing with issues every day. He's getting briefings from advisers every day. He'll be ready. I mean, I have no doubt he is going to be ready on Thursday night.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That there is what we call moving the goalposts.

JENNINGS: What did I say it was false?

SELLERS: Nothing. Nothing that you said is false. But what I'm saying is the moving of the goalposts, when anybody says that, that's just contradictory to the talking points that my Republican friends have been saying for the past year or two, because they've called Joe Biden everything. They've said he's infirm. They said he has tennis balls on his walker. They say he has to go to bed at 4:00 after he eats his Denny's. I mean, this is what they've called this man. And now all of a sudden they're out here saying that he is God's gift to debating, like he was a part of the debate club at Harvard. Like this is they are moving the goalposts, but right now --

JENNINGS: But he was part of the debate club in the Roman Senate. I'm just telling like this guy has been around a long time.

SELLERS: That may be true. But my only point is that --

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He was neither at Harvard nor at the Roman Senate.

SELLERS: Now they're moving the goalposts. And what happens is and most Americans say that if Joe Biden comes out there and performs, if he just clears the low bar that they have, then Joe Biden will win the debate.

NAVARRO: Listen, I have heard in the last few months, I have heard Trump and Trump world first say that he's decrepit, that he can't stand for 90 minutes, that he's not going to make it through the debate, that he's lost, that he can't find his space, I mean, all these things. Then that he's jacked up on God knows what. They don't know. I mean, Donald Trump has gone so far as to talk about cocaine. Then they -- that he is the best debater, that he wiped the floor with Paul Ryan. And today, the latest was to say that the moderators were rigged. What does Donald Trump do every time? He sets the stage so that if he doesn't do well, so that if he loses, he can blame it on something.

And if there's something predictable about Donald Trump, it is that Joe Biden is being who Joe Biden is, discipline, studious, getting ready, doing mock debates. Donald Trump is being what Donald Trump always is, crazy.

PHILLIP: So, okay. The character that I did not expect to show up this week is Dan Quayle, the former vice president, but he has some advice for Joe Biden. He says, if I were advising Biden, I'd try to make fun of Trump, try to ridicule him. That will get him mad.

JENNINGS: Yes. I think for both of them, trying to needle the other one on something that they know will get under their skin or that they'll get emotional about, that then get you thinking about everything but your game plan. So, I think both of them actually are going to come armed with one or two things that they know is going to go cut, a deep cut right to the core of what would make --

NAVARRO: Well, listen, what cuts Trump right to the core is to call him a loser. That he can't stand. And what cuts Joe Biden is Hunter Biden.

JENNINGS: Yes.

NAVARRO: And I think they need to prepare Joe Biden for that. Joe needs to come prepared for that, because let's remember what Donald Trump did with Hillary Clinton. He showed up with women who had had relationships or alleged relationships with. There is nowhere this man won't go. And I hope that if he tries there and goes there, Joe Biden swats him like a fly, reminds him that he too lost a brother to addiction, that his family has been touched by this to as many American families have and to take his son's name out of his mouth.

PHILLIP: So, the reporting from CNN tonight is that Biden's advisers are saying to him, don't focus on bragging about your accomplishments, focus on Trump's character, focus on the legal peril that he's in, good advice, bad advice?

SELLERS: Not as great advice. I think that a lot of times Joe Biden gets caught up in the nostalgia of yesteryear, and he does that quite a bit.

PHILLIP: I mean, the last three years, though? That's --

SELLERS: No, no, no. But I think that that's a slippery slope. And I think that a lot of people in this election want to hear, and both of these candidates have to do a better job of articulating what the future would look like. One is 81 and Donald Trump is 70, what, 78. And so they, they sometimes become a prisoner of their age and they have to be willing to lay out ideals for the future.

I was really surprised to hear that Dan Quayle had good advice for somebody because that actually was good advice. And what I would tell --

PHILLIP: He knows what it's like to be receiving --

SELLERS: What I would tell what I would tell Joe Biden is say, look, you have to needle Donald Trump. It's okay to call him a convicted felon, to look at him directly in the face and say, that convicted felon. And then you make a joke and say, was it 33, 34? How many felonies was it? Then you have to pivot to the future.

PHILLIP: But doesn't he have to actually sell his current presidency, the one that he is in right now?

SELLERS: There's no question that he's going to -- like he's going to have to answer questions from Jake Tapper, from Dana Bash. He's going to have to answer questions about inflation. He's going to have to answer questions about the Afghanistan withdrawal. He's going to have to answer questions about Gaza. And, yes, you have to be able to be responsible for your record. But there are so many people out here, the people who you can move, want to hear about what the vision for this future --

[22:10:00]

NAVARRO: And it's a 90 minute debate. I don't understand why people think it's got to be just one thing or another. Of course he's got to brag about the things he's done. He's gotten a lot of very significant accomplishments, the most that I can remember in a very difficult Congress. But he also has to look forward and say this is why I need four more years.

JENNINGS: I think I'm with Quayle, because everything that Joe Biden has done in his presidency up to this moment has delivered him roughly a 38 percent approval rating. So, if he spends all night long talking about how he got to this moment in time, that will be a law. So, I agree. I think looking forward what could you do for the next four years, but really for this reason, people don't think he's up to being president for another four. You have to describe some plausible future that you could actually be part of.

SELLERS: Those talking points were good two weeks ago, because what we just saw from the Fox News poll --

PHILLIP: You guys agree. I mean, I think --

SELLERS: We are agreeing. I'm just rejecting his premise, because we agree on it, like we're heated up (ph). But the fact is like he does have a 38 percent approval rating. But the latest polls we've seen, the Fox News poll, Donald -- I mean, Joe Biden is now winning this election. He's winning in Michigan. He's winning in Wisconsin. And so even with that approval rating, he still is winning this race right now, as we walk into this debate.

JENNINGS: You think that Joe Biden is currently clearly winning this race at this moment?

SELLERS: Nobody said clearly. I'm just talking about, Harry is right over there. Harry is literally ten feet away from us.

JENNINGS: You want to take a tour of the map. I'll take it with you.

NAVARRO: This is an incredibly close race, which is why this debate is so very, very important.

PHILLIP: All right. Since we've conjured up Harry Enten, our senior data reporter is here. Harry, tell us about the great unknowns about this debate on Thursday.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I wish I was over at that table, far more fun than being alone at this wall. But, anyway, all right, the great debate unknowns, we got four of them and we'll kind of go through them quickly here.

How rusty will these candidates be? We're dealing with record old candidates, and neither of them debated during the primary season. That is the first time that that has ever happened where neither candidate debated during the primary season. Usually at least one, if not two, has done going into a general election debate. So, how rusty will they be come Thursday? We're just going to have to wait and see.

All right, how about some other great unknowns heading into this debate? Does Trump name a V.P.? He's kind of teased a little bit, because if he does, it might be the only thing that we talk about post-debate. If all of a sudden you have a complete ticket on the Republican side, it could cover up for a potential gaffe that he in fact might make. Maybe if he feels like the debate is going well, he won't actually say anything. All right, that's two unknowns.

How about a third unknown? Which Donald Trump shows up at the debate on Thursday night? Are we going to get that first debate Donald Trump from 2020 where he's constantly trying to interrupt folks, or are we potentially going to get calmer Trump, a calmer Trump to maybe throw Biden off, who's so prepping for Trump to try and interrupt him at every turn, but all of a sudden we get a Trump that is, dare I say, a little bit more presidential? Of course, presidential and Trump, not necessarily two things that always go together in a sentence.

Finally, one other thing I'll note, what will be the impact of the fact that this is the earliest debate on record by far. This is happening three months before any prior general election debate. It could make for a maximum effect, right? Oftentimes we have these debates, and then you see a debate a week later, a vice presidential debate, which basically keeps the sort of bump a candidate might have at a minimum. Maybe we could have a maximum effect on this one, especially considering there are no other debates anytime soon.

So, this is going to basically take up a chunk of the news cycle, not just this week, not just next week, but going into July. So, a lot of unknowns going in, but it should make for a fun ride, kind of like you have a fun panel over there, Abby.

PHILLIP: Yes, so much to marinate on and what you just gave us. Thank you, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you.

PHILLIP: So, actually, okay, I'm going to just say the thing I thought was maybe one of the most intriguing scenarios is the V.P. selection on debate day. Trump has teased us.

JENNINGS: I don't know anything. I would bet against it just because, traditionally, you want to do a whole big roll out of this thing and have it spool out over a few days. But, obviously, there's going to be some of the top contenders in Atlanta, as we understand it. And so I guess anything is possible. But it strikes me that if you thought you were winning and you thought you were in a good spot in what you were doing that night, why would you step on that with some other news (ph)?

NAVARRO: Listen, he's going to have these people sucking up to him and competing to be the winner of The Apprentice for as long as he possibly can. He rather enjoys it.

SELLERS: Yes. You know, I don't know how exciting saying that I've chosen Ben Carson can be on a Thursday night in Atlanta, but I don't think that's going to go over that well. But if you're winning, then why -- it's Scott's point. If you're winning the debate, if you won the debate, if you won the night, then why would you do something like that? I think, allow Doug Burnham and Ben Carson to continue to suck up to each other.

PHILLIP: Doug Burgum.

SELLERS: What did I say?

PHILLIP: Burnham.

SELLERS: Burgum.

NAVARRO: What is it?

PHILLIP: Doug Burgum.

[22:15:00]

NAVARRO: And what did he say?

PHILLIP: He said --

SELLERS: Burnham, I think. Like Berna (ph) boy? I don't know.

PHILLIP: All right, guys. Thank you all so much for joining us for that.

NAVARRO: They're going to say we're jacked up.

PHILLIP: Up next for us, we've got protests erupting nationwide. It's the second year anniversary of Roe versus Wade being overturned, and we've got Ashley Judd with us about why this anniversary is very personal for her.

Plus, the judge in Donald Trump's documents case gets irritated with Jack Smith's prosecutors as she seems skeptical of slapping Trump with another gag order.

And Nancy Pelosi gives her first reaction to the conviction of her husband's attacker, including a message to Trump's son and his supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Who do they think they are? Well, you know what they are? They're going to be losers in just a few months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:20:20]

PHILLIP: Two years ago tonight, the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade, ending a woman's constitutional right to an abortion. And now some liberals see it as the defining issue of this election. As nearly two dozen states have banned or limited access to the procedure, protests are erupting all across the country, including at a rally in Richmond, Virginia, where the actor, Ashley Judd, spoke with the crowd.

And joining me now is Ashley Judd. Ashley, thank you very much for being with us tonight.

ASHLEY JUDD, ACTRESS: Pleasure, so nice to see you.

PHILLIP: You are a long time advocate for women's reproductive rights, and this is, for you, something that's deeply personal, as it is for so many women. Can you share with us more about why this issue is so important to you?

JUDD: You know, when you said long time, I remember when I was deciding to ditch the Peace Corps in 1990 and instead go to a different jungle, Hollywood. And a family friend said, what are you going to do when you get there? And I said, well, on Saturdays, I'm going to go to Planned Parenthood and help women access safe and legal abortion care. And he said, are you going to save the world or to be an actor? And back then we didn't know you could try to do both. So, this has been important to me for a long time.

And I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you said personal because we talk about legislation. We talk about bans. We talk about the Supreme Court. And abortion care is personal. It's about stories. It's about our lives. It's about our capacity to decide if to have children, when to have children, how many to have, how to plan and space the births of those children and to terminate a pregnancy if that's what we need to do.

And there're so many different ways to address this. My abortion story includes male sexual violence. A guy I'd known for a really long time raped me. That rape resulted in pregnancy. And the relief I experienced when I accessed an abortion was enormous. And there were many reasons for that, not the least of which is that rapists have paternity rights in Kentucky and Tennessee, as they do in 43 states.

So, when we're talking about these bans with no exceptions for rape and incest and particularly looking at the vulnerability of adolescent girls forcing them to give birth, when maybe their pelvises aren't developed enough to safely give birth without developing fistula, there's so many ways to talk about this. And what goes over the head comes over the head. We need to talk about abortion from the heart.

PHILLIP: I wonder what you make of so many states in the southern part of this country, being places where women have to travel far to access abortions. What do you think when you see a map that shows huge swaths of America where women are either have to overcome huge hurdles or have to go very far crossing state lines to get the kind of access that you did?

JUDD: Again, Abby, there's so many ways to talk about that because abortion care is not just about if I'm capable of being a good mother at this time and can I meet the emotional and developmental and economic needs of my child, but it's about my participation in the labor force. This is a financial burden that is particularly onerous for women who are low wage and low wealth. It's as if they really do want to keep us serially pregnant and poor. If I have another child that I cannot feed, and most women who have abortions are already mothers, I can't participate in the labor force.

PHILLIP: We see this playing out, not just economically, but, you know, also in terms of what happens when babies are born who either can't survive or whose families cannot care for them. I want to ask you about another aspect of this, because we've seen this play out in the courts. The Supreme Court ultimately rejected a challenge to access this abortion drug called Mifepristone. And we're going to soon hear another ruling on a case having to do with whether emergency rooms are required to treat women with abortions during a medical emergency.

You know, given the makeup of this court, it's very conservative, how concerned are you that on this latest ruling on medical emergencies that they could rule in a way that further restricts access to abortions?

JUDD: Again, so many things come to mind. And I'm so grateful for the opportunity for us to visit, and there's a whole spectrum of things that need to be discussed. And the great Maya Angelou comes to mind, when someone shows me who they are, I believe them the first time.

[22:25:00]

Everything is on the table with these lawmakers and the Supreme Court.

And 34 percent of women between 18 and 39 who participated in this study just said that they are someone they know is now choosing not to have children. And that's a human decision. That's a profoundly intimate question of the soul and the heart and of faith and mystery. It shouldn't be a political decision. But they're choosing not to have children because they are afraid if they have a pregnancy-related emergency, they will die, because they will not be given an abortion if they need one during a complication. And 68 percent of doctors just said that these abortion bans have constrained their ability to care for pregnancy, not to give abortions, but to medically care for women who are pregnant.

PHILLIP: We have a debate coming on Thursday. It's a big debate. It'll be right here on CNN. How do you think this is going to play in that debate? How big of a showcase do you think it will be or should be, especially for President Biden going into that contest with Donald Trump?

JUDD: Look, it's really clear that the only candidates running for president who support girls and women's right to plan and space the births of their children and to terminate a pregnancy if that's what they need to do, it's the Biden-Harris ticket. You know, President Trump has said that watching us die from lack of access to abortion care because he vowed to appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn a constitutional right to abortion has been, quote, a beautiful thing to watch. That's really clear.

And what I want to emphasize is that abortion care is really about stories and it's about us. And even though I'm absolutely voting for Biden-Harris, I am campaigning for them. They are the path forward for American democracy. 87 percent of media articles that were reviewed never quote a doctor when talking about abortion. 92 percent don't even include a woman who's had an abortion. This needs to be taken out of the realm of politics and put where it belongs, which is in the lives of women.

PHILLIP: It's a very important point. Ashley Judd, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us today on this really critical topic. Thank you.

JUDD: Thanks, Abby, a pleasure.

PHILLIP: And new tonight, the judge in the federal classified documents case seems skeptical of putting a gag order on Donald Trump. I'll talk to legal experts about what it could mean for that trial

Plus, breaking news, after years of crashes and safety lapses, federal prosecutors now are recommending criminal charges against Boeing. I'll speak with a mother who lost her daughter in a crash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:32:32] PHILLIP: New tonight, double hearings in the former President Trump's classified documents case in South Florida. Prosecutors are arguing for a gag order to limit Trump's attacks on FBI agents involved in the case. They're citing concerns of inciting violence. In addition to the Trump team continuing their efforts to get Jack Smith's case thrown out altogether, blaming unlawful funding of the investigation.

Neither of which Judge Eileen Cannon ruled on today. Let me bring in our legal panel to discuss this, civil and criminal attorney Donte Mills and former Trump attorney, impeachment trial lawyer Michael Van Der Veen. Michael, Judge Cannon has scheduled all these hearings, this is now day two of this hearing. Is she just dragging this thing out?

MICHAEL VAN DER VEEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY IN IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: She certainly seems to be taking a lot longer than is possibly necessary, you know. She's a fairly new judge, of course, and she's a smart lady. She has a great temperament in the courtroom, but the decisions aren't coming quick enough. She's asking too many other people to come in and give their opinions, the amicus curia brief that she's invited. It's just very unusual.

It's really important when on the bench to give your decisions well- reasoned, but also timely and to continue to give people time to supplement the arguments and supplement evidence isn't doing the justice any good.

PHILLIP: It's not.

VAN DER VEEN: It's really playing right into the defense's hands.

DONTE MILLS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I just have to push back a little bit because every time this conversation comes up, someone starts with, well, she's new on the bench. She's a judge. Her job is to judge. She was trained to do that and that's her role. You can't say I'm a judge, but I'm not going to or I can't do my job effectively because I haven't been a judge long enough.

PHILLIP: You're saying that you think it's not a good excuse that she's new.

MILLS: It's absolutely not a good excuse because if I'm a defendant in her case or plaintiff or whoever I am, and she's saying or she's making things happen because she's not a judge that's seasoned enough, nobody wants to go through that experience.

PHILLIP: The perception that, you just said it, that she's playing right into the defense's hands. That is the perception. That's intentional. I mean, how does she bat that down when it seems like everything that she's doing is exactly what the Trump team would want her to do?

VAN DER VEEN: You know, her inexperience isn't really so much as an excuse. It's just a fact and a circumstance that she's in.

[22:35:01] You know, 10 years from now, this case might be a little bit easier for her, but it's a very complicated case and it plays into the defense's hand because justice delayed is justice denied. If this case never gets to court, guess what? Trump wins. The defense wins. If the case goes forward, well, then, you know, you've got a contest, but the case never gets heard. It plays completely into the defense's hands.

PHILLIP: She seems skeptical of this gag order, in part because she's saying, I need more proof that there's a connection between the words that Trump is saying and these threats. I mean, both things are real, but what's the connection between the two things? Is that fair?

MILLS: Let's just break this down. With the gag order in this specific case, it's different than in New York. In New York, he was talking about the judge's family, the jurors, and it was very specific, the gag order. You can't talk about people's families. You can't talk about the juror. Here, in this case in Florida, what the gag order is about is Trump is saying he was almost assassinated, and the prosecution is saying he's lying because he wasn't.

But what that's going to do is that's going to incite other people to act because Trump is saying they tried to kill him, essentially. So the judge is saying, I don't see a direct connection. I don't see people who've actually responded to that threat. I think the judge is right there, but I also think the judge should just make that decision if that's where she's leading.

PHILLIP: So, we had Robert Ray on the show last week with Dante, actually, and he said the risk is too great and that just in the abundance of caution, Trump should be gagged from making these kinds of threats.

VAN DER VEEN: Well, you know, the judge has to follow this statute. There are two reasons why a judge can impose conditions such as this. One, to make sure Trump comes to court, which he's going to, and two, to make sure the community's safe.

But in order for her to find that she has to do something to make the community safe, there has to be proof, the first, that there's, you know, a risk to the community, but secondly, that there's a causation between what Trump is saying and what the people are doing. See, the thing is, the people aren't mad by what Trump is saying. They're mad by the circumstances they're watching.

MILLS: No, no.

PHILLIP: How do you know? See, that's the thing. How do you know that? I mean, look, if Trump is constantly attacking the FBI, saying that he was going to be assassinated, saying that they raided his house with guns blazing, and then somebody shows up and tries to break into the FBI offices in Atlanta or sends bomb threats or whatever, how do you prove that that was Trump?

MILLS: I think we're being naive if we say -- if we say people are not listening to the words Trump are saying, we're being naive, and we're cutting him too much slack to say, you have the responsibility to say things that are reasonable and not incite people to violence.

Now, he has a First Amendment protection. I think the judge has a tough battle. She has to make a decision, but we can't sit here and say nobody's listening to Trump or his words aren't impacting people to act the way they are.

VAN DER VEEN: Well, in that particular circumstance, the guy breaking into the FBI office wasn't breaking into the FBI office because Donald Trump said they came to me with guns blazing. He did that because they went to him, because they did have guns blazing. Not because of what Trump said, but because of what they did.

PHILLIP: How do you prove that?

VAN DER VEEN: Well, that's the thing.

PHILLIP: I mean, how do you prove that it wasn't Trump?

VAN DER VEEN: The government has to prove that. The government has to prove that the guy did what he did as incited by Donald Trump's words. And I don't think, and I don't think the judge thinks, they're going to be able to do that.

PHILLIP: Well, last thing. I mean, it seems, frankly, the judge was irritated with the prosecution. She got into it with them today. She seems inclined to make a decision. Why won't she just make it? Why is she pushing this until, what, Wednesday?

MILLS: That's the thing. She keeps playing kick the can and pushing it further, and in fact, she says she's going to give both sides time to come with additional information. Generally, a judge looks at the briefs that's been filed, makes her decision based off the information that's provided.

She's giving them time to come back, add more things, which I think she's already made up her decision, but for some reason, she does not want to pull the trigger. She has to.

PHILLIP: She has to make a decision at some point.

VAN DER VEEN: What she's doing is she's bending over backwards to make sure that due process is afforded. Notice and a hearing. She's trying to make sure that everybody has noticed what's going on and that they have a fair hearing. So, she has given them every opportunity to make their record, and then she'll make her decision. Is it going too long? I think so, but what am I going to do?

MILLS: And that affects due process, too.

VAN DER VEEN: I'm not going to Sunday quarterback it.

PHILLIP: All right.

MILLS: But like Abby said, no decision is a bad decision.

PHILLIP: I guess that's what we do. I guess that's Sunday morning quarterbacking is what we do around here. Donte Mills, Michael Van Der Veen, thank you both very much.

And breaking tonight, Boeing may be on the verge of facing criminal charges after all of their crashes and safety issues that you know about. I'll speak live with the mother of someone who died in a Boeing crash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:44:15]

PHILLIP: Tonight, Boeing in the crosshairs of the Biden Justice Department, a source familiar telling CNN that federal prosecutors have made the recommendation to criminally charge the aviation giant. Now, it'll be up to DOJ's top brass about whether or not they're going to move forward with potential charges.

DOJ believes that the company breached a deal that spared them from criminal charges in 2021 over safety lapses and hiding flaws in its planes that led to two fatal 737 MAX crashes. Joining me now is Nadia Milleron. Her daughter, Samya, died in 2019 when an Ethiopian airline 737 MAX crashed shortly after takeoff. Nadia, thank you for joining us again.

NADIA MILLERON, DAUGHTER SAMYA STUMO WAS KILLED IN 2019 BOEING 737 MAX CRASH: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[22:45:00]

PHILLIP: When we spoke to you last week after you had just attended a hearing with Boeing's CEO, you called him then a criminal. You've been demanding this kind of accountability from Boeing. What do you make of this news?

MILLERON: Well, what we've been asking for the whole time is for no third crash. So in January of '23, we asked the court to impose an independent monitor on Boeing. And the court denied that motion, even with all the pilot emergency reports that we presented. And then since that time, there's been the Alaska blowout, the FAA grounded 171 of those planes. There have been the ODA safety review panel finding 53 recommendations that there are multiple instances of Boeing failure to comply with manufacturing quality control requirements.

You know, all of the whistleblowers, the engineers' unions say that Boeing retaliating against their employees, the Southwest airline, the Dutch role, you know, where the actual movement of the aircraft rocking from side to side caused damage to the aircraft. And then the quality inspector, Sam Mohawk, just recently revealing Boeing losing track of hundreds of faulty parts.

The reason my voice is shaking is because these types of things caused my daughter's death and caused the death of all of these people that you can see behind me. So, you know, we're asking for a monitor, an independent monitor on Boeing, because the DPA that the Justice Department is saying that Boeing violated, that didn't have that had an internal monitor from Boeing. And that's approved by the corporation. And that just doesn't work.

You know, we can see that it doesn't work because look at all these incidents that are happening. Each incident can cause deaths. So, you know --

PHILLIP: Yeah.

MILLERON: -- it's just -- we just don't want that to happen. And that's why we're appealing directly to the judge. And today we made a motion to the judge for that.

PHILLIP: And Nadia, I see you holding up a picture of your daughter. I just have a few seconds left. To the DOJ, what would you say to them today as they deliberate on whether or not to charge?

MILLERON: You have to hold them accountable in order to make a safety culture. This is an interim step. We're asking for an independent monitor. And they have to prosecute in order for the safety culture of Boeing to change and to stop this risk to passengers.

PHILLIP: Nadia Milleron, thank you again for coming back and joining us. I see you holding up a picture of your daughter. We remember her tonight as we bring this news to everyone in their homes. Thank you.

MILLERON: Thank you.

PHILLIP: And tonight, Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu walking back previous comments about a deal to release hostages after a new and stunning video of October 7th was released by those hostage families. Anderson Cooper spoke with a hostage family who told him about that video. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:52:49]

PHILLIP: New tonight, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doing a 180 and walking back some recent comments that suggested that a partial deal with Hamas for the return of some hostages. Those remarks were at odds with the broader ceasefire that was outlined by President Biden, which includes conditions intended to release all the remaining hostages.

Netanyahu's retraction comes in light of families of Israeli hostages releasing a new video today. The graphic footage shows the kidnapping of three Israelis by Hamas on October 7th. They were held in the back of a pickup truck. The three are seen being driven along the road by militants wielding assault weapons.

Tonight, CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke with the parents of one of the hostages in that video, Hersh Goldberg-Polin. Anderson joins me now in studio. Anderson, tell us about this conversation with this -- with Hirsch's parents. Why did they want to speak out today?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Rachel and Jon, who are Hersh's parents, I mean, they have been very vocal from the beginning. This is the 262nd day that Hirsch has been held hostage. They have really, you know, made it their mission to inform the world about his plight and the plight of all the hostages. And this is a new video that Jon Polin, Hersh's dad, saw for the first time, was shown to him by the Israeli army last week.

It's actually, it's sort of moments after Hersh has been taken captive. I actually had found, back on their early first week after the attack, I found a video of Hersh's actual kidnapping, which I then informed the family about and showed him. So, this video takes place after the former video, which they had seen. Here's what they said about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL GOLDBERG, HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN'S MOTHER: It's a video that's just heartbreaking and sickening and, you know, difficult to put into words how I just feel broken for him and for the other young people in that pickup truck.

[22:55:00]

JON POLIN, HERSH GOLDBERG-POLIN'S FATHER: I agree that it's horrific. It's gut-wrenching. It's a video that no parent wants to see of their kid. Nobody wants to see of their loved ones. But when the other families approached and said that they wanted to release it to the public, we right away said yes and that was because it's important.

It's important that people in the world see the videos, understand what's happening, understand what happened on October 7th, and most particularly that leaders of the world see it. We families of hostages don't need any reminders. We don't need any wake-up calls. We work 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the release of our loved ones. World leaders, maybe they need a wake-up call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: World leaders, I mean, are they also specifically talking about Netanyahu, who seems almost at every turn to back away from opportunities to bring all of the hostages' home?

COOPER: Yeah, look, I think they -- I talked to Jon about this. I think he's been somewhat confused, baffled by what's been going on of late. Their number one concern is getting, you know, all the hostages back. For them, you know, it's been a long time that they didn't know whether their son was alive or not. They then got a proof-of-life video on day 201 back in April. Hersh's left hand had been blown or shot off in the attack. He was in a bomb shelter that they were shooting and throwing grenades into.

So, that was the first proof-of-life they've had. They've had no word of Hersh since then. So, they're just desperate to get to, you know, inform people and keep people, you know, trying to remember that there are hostages being held, that there are American hostages being held.

PHILLIP: Yeah, absolutely. I want to also talk about your interview with the former House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi. You talked to her today on a number of topics, but also the recent ruling on the man who attacked her husband. I'm going to play here what she said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY PELOSI, SPEAKER EMERITA: We're always worried about other people and how the incitement of these people for what the things that they say, the lies that they tell, to incite somebody to come into my home and that, and I just worry about other elected officials, whatever their point of view is, whatever side of the aisle they're on, that they not be subjected to that, because that undermines our democracy in such a very serious way.

But what was awful about it, what was awful about it, Anderson, was that they made jokes about it. The president of the United States said ridiculous things. The former, what's his name, you know, made ridiculous statements. His son said stupid things. Some of his supporters, and you know who they are, said awful things. And that was very hurtful to us, to our children, to our grandchildren, but more importantly, to our country.

Who do they think they are? Well, you know what they are? They're going to be losers in just a few months. Once again, indicted, impeached, convicted, loser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Who do they think they are? What did you make of just, I mean, the anger? There's a lot of anger there, not just about what this means for her family, but also for the country.

COOPER: Yeah, look, I think, you know, this attack was horrific for Mr. Pelosi, for the entire family. I mean, it's a sickening attack. And I think it's -- I think she's being very honest in her outrage at the president, then president of the United States, making fun of it. And I think he was president still, or maybe he was former, I guess he was former president by then.

PHILLIP: Yeah, he was former president.

COOPER: But, you know, I think her outrage is genuine over having her husband, you know, at the lowest point in his life being made fun of for being the victim of a crime.

PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's not surprising, but there was also a lot of confidence there that she called Trump a convicted loser. She says he will lose again. She seems pretty confident in Joe Biden's chances. This is just a couple days before Biden and Trump meet on that debate stage.

COOPER: Yeah, you know, she, during the last, the midterms, when a lot of people, a lot of Democrats were not so confident in how Democrats might do, she was -- I interviewed her literally on the eve of that midterm election. And she said to me, like, I've talked to people all over the country, I've talked to people, and I'm very confident in how Democrats are going to do.

And I remember thinking at the time, well, of course, she's saying this. This is what people always say. She really believed it and she actually turned out to be right.

PHILLIP: I think you're totally right about that. I mean, every time I've talked to the former Speaker, she has never wavered in her belief that Joe Biden would ultimately beat Donald Trump in this election, in the last election, in the midterms, et cetera. She's pretty confident in that.

[23:00:01]

COOPER: Yeah.

PHILLIP: Anderson, thank you so much for being with us tonight. And thank you for watching "Newsnight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.