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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Biden Charges Forward With Campaign, We're Going To Win; Source Says, Defecting Democrats Having No Impact On Biden; New York Times Reports, Donors To Biden Super PAC Freeze $90 Million; Guest Anchor Pamela Brown And Panel Discuss Who The Polls Favor In The Presidential Race 2024. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired July 12, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: More honey and less vinegar from Joe Biden. That's tonight on NewsNight.

Good evening. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Abby Phillip is off.

Well, tonight, if Democrats were hoping for death by 213 defections or intimidation by editorial boards, they won't get it. The Washington Post Editorial Board is now joining the likes of The New York Times, calling for Biden to quit and calling for his closest friends to tell him the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about his electoral prospects.

But a source close to Joe Biden telling me tonight that it would require a lot more for the president to forfeit the Democratic nomination beyond Lord Almighty, as Biden puts it. Now, this is all in response to Democrats, among them Nancy Pelosi, who have said Joe Biden needs to decide and decide now about if he's in or out. The quotes from a key Biden ally I spoke to leave little if any wiggle room. Quote, he has decided, he has made up his mind, he is driving.

Can governors do anything? Can senators do anything? My source says, well, maybe, but it is a big if, and it would require convincing the campaign that polls have just utterly collapsed, endangering the White House even more, plus the Senate, plus the House.

Speaking of Biden's evoking of Lord Almighty, allies of Biden have told him he needs to tone down the indignation and move closer to what my source called his real core. More honey and less vinegar. Perhaps that's what we saw on display at his solo press conference last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think I'm the best call -- I know, I believe I'm the best qualified to govern. And I think I'm the best qualified to win. But there are other people could beat Trump too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm told the change in tone is aimed to convince voters and donors and elected officials listening that Biden understands the gravity of the moment and to make sure his allies don't mistake determination for arrogance.

Well, tonight, Biden said for his part that he is good and he is not going anywhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We've got to finish the job, and I promise you I'm okay. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Norma Torres of California. She is the vice chair of Communications for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and was on the call today with President Biden. Congresswoman, thank you so much for your time tonight.

I want to ask you about Congressman Levin, who was on this call, and he is the first member we know of to directly tell the president to step aside. What was that moment like?

REP. NORMA TORRES (D-CA): Well, it's good to be with you today, Pamela. That moment was very unfortunate timing from Congressman Levin. I think it was not the time for him to utilize our time to tell that to the to the president. Any one of us, any member of Congress can put out a press release and tell the president whatever they want to tell. But I think that that was -- that schedule call, in my opinion, we were supposed to be talking about the campaign and how could we help the president in this campaign, and how could we move forward with an endorsement that has already been given to the president over a month or two ago. So, it was very unfortunate and it left a stale mood in the call.

BROWN: So, tell us a little bit more about that, as you mentioned, the endorsement, but, of course, some lawmakers since the debate performance, they've changed their view. And Congressman Levin made his view clear directly to President Biden. Why was that the wrong call? And how did President Biden handle that moment?

TORRES: Well, first of all, I think it was the wrong call because it was -- the call was supposed to be about an endorsement. But how did President Biden handle that? He was very modest. He was very honest. And he was upfront about his commitment to be in this race and to run the best race that he could. He also engaged every member and asked for us to join him in the campaign trail.

[22:05:03]

He is going to be very, very busy for the next 117 days left before Election Day. So, yes, many of the members that were on that call are ready to join him and have already joined. Some of them have joined the president in the campaign trail.

BROWN: I want to talk a little bit about some reporting that I got just before the show tonight from a Biden ally who said that President Biden realizes he needs to change his tone on questions about his debate performance after saying to ABC a week ago that it would only take Lord Almighty for him to step aside, and the moment where when he was asked, well, what happens if Trump beat you? He said, well, at least I knew I gave it my all. Do you agree that that adjustment needed to be made? The concern was that President Biden came across as arrogant in those answers. What do you think about that?

TORRES: I think those who know President Biden know that he is far from arrogant. I think that we all need to step aside and allow President Biden to be who he is, and that is an honest person who deals directly with the American people. He speaks the truth about what he can do, what he will do, and what he has done for the American people.

Let us not forget where we were just three and a half years ago when President Biden took office. We had been through turmoil for four years and this case is closed. President Biden has told us that he is running for re-election. So, let's get on the bus and let's continue to work on winning the House, on keeping the Senate and winning back the White House. That should be our focus right now, because if we don't, you know who loses? The children in my community, the world will lose on a global leader who stands for democracy and the rule of law. Donald Trump will give us just the opposite of that.

BROWN: Let's talk a little bit more about those down ballot races in the House and the Senate, as you mentioned, because there have been some lawmakers who are concerned that if they don't speak out about Biden, that perhaps it could hurt them, especially the ones, the dozens in the vulnerable races.

You have Leader Jeffries, Speaker Emerita Pelosi and Leader Schumer, for their part, who have not said that they 100 percent stand behind Joe Biden in recent days. Does that concern you? And do you think they're giving enough leadership? What do you to members like yourself during this crucial moment, enough guidance and leadership?

TORRES: Well, I commend our leadership in giving members the space that they need to run the campaign that they need to run in their district. And I think that that is the one thing that we can always count on especially with, you know, Leader Pelosi. She always told members, look, if you need to run against me, go ahead. You need to do whatever you need to do in order to win your seat.

But I think that that is an unfortunate talking point. I think that we have demonstrated in the last three and a half years that we have recovered our democracy. We have recovered our jobs. We have 15 million jobs that our president has created. We have these jobs that mostly Latino workers are working in, for example, construction jobs. And those jobs are going to be with us for the next ten years, the bills that we have passed, we need to focus on the work that we have done, and we can win elections based on what we have done for the American people, insulin cap that $35, 64 other prescription drugs will be lowered in price, thank you, President Biden, and the infrastructure bill.

BROWN: Thank you very much for coming on and sharing your perspective on this unfolding story. Congressman Norma Torres, we really appreciate your time on this Friday night. TORRES: Thank you, Pamela.

BROWN: And joining us in studio tonight, Marc Lotter, Alencia Johnson, Rina Shah, and Philippe Reines. Thank you all for being here.

Alencia, I just wanted to get your reaction first off to what we heard from the Congresswoman. She talks about that moment on the call today where you had Congressman Levin tell Biden flat out he should step aside. She said it was an unfortunate moment. And it's sort of like, when you take a step back, that divide we're seeing on a larger scale within the Democratic Party right now. What do you think about this?

ALENCIA JOHNSON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: Yes. I mean, I think of the backdrop of, I was watching some of President Biden's speech today in Detroit, where he had a lot of support.

[22:10:00]

I mean, there were people asking for four more years. There was excitement there.

And what she was getting at, which I think is a consensus among the party, is that we want to move on to talk about the existential crisis that is Donald Trump, someone who can't even run with his vice president because he was letting him be at the Capitol with death threats, right? Like there is an existential crisis.

The frustrating piece about all of this is that we're losing the voter sentiment. I actually was talking to some reporters today who said they are having a hard time on the ground getting a lot of voters and people of color, particularly people of color voters, to come to a consensus that Biden should drop out because they know what's happening on the other side.

And so I share that because it is frustrating that these elected officials were airing our dirty laundry out there, but we need to focus on what's about to happen in Wisconsin next week that is literally going to put so many people in danger.

And so I appreciate her coming on here and defending President Biden. I actually will agree that the tone has to change. You don't like you, you, you mentioned at the beginning of the segment, you get more people with honey, not vinegar, right? We have to actually let voters know. We all have the same goal of beating Donald Trump. We're trying to change the tone.

BROWN: And it's so important to understand what the voters think. In fact, Rene Marsh, my colleague, has a piece on black voters, what they think coming up in the show. So, don't miss that.

But take us inside the crisis bunker now, two weeks in. Philippe, you've been there for your share of crises, right, when you were working with Hillary Clinton. What happens? I mean, when you hear Biden talk about the polls but that doesn't necessarily reflect the reality of the polls, it does make you wonder, what is he being told? Is he being told the accurate info or his aides giving him the real picture here?

PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON SPOKESMAN: Well, I think you have to start from the place that Joe Biden is someone, I think by my count, he ran and won six or seven Senate races. He was part of two winning presidential tickets, and then he won his own presidential ticket. The guy has a good political gut. So, it's not like you're starting from a place where someone doesn't know anything, and you're like, sir, I got to tell you, stop patting yourself on the back, that debate didn't go so well. It's a matter of making sure he knows -- you pick your time.

It's a terrible analogy, but I was thinking, you have a team of producers and people, editorials, and if you had a meeting with them at 2:00 and someone sees there's something in your teeth, they don't need to jump out in the middle of the meeting and say, Pam, you got something in your teeth. They can wait until after the meeting. They can wait as long as they get you before you go on air. That's the issue. If they don't tell you before you went on air, there's a problem.

Here in this moment, I cannot imagine in part because I know some of the people, but also because that it just doesn't seem reasonable that the man is not reading any paper, I mean, on the one hand, you have reporting that he watches morning cable religiously.

BROWN: Which is some people think that's why Nancy Pelosi went on.

REINES: But that Morning Cable is also talking about polls. They're showing graphics. They're showing numbers. So, you can't shield him entirely.

But I think what really is happening is that there's two different conversations going on. And this might've been the real problem after the debate. This wasn't something that he misspoke about saying, oh, we would, we would side with China if they invited Taiwan. He comes off stage, you're like, sir, I don't think you meant to say that. That's not our policy. He would say, did I really say that? That's not a good idea. Let's clean it up. You're telling him something that he knows. You're telling him, sir, there are people making judgments about your health. They're looking at you and they're saying you can't do this. You can't do that. That's not how he sees himself.

For right or wrong, he knows, he has a source on his health better than anyone, and it's him. He knows what he can do and he knows what he can't do. And he knows, to go back to the congressional piece, I watched him for 40 minutes tonight in Michigan. I won't say I'm in the tank, you can dismiss it, but he was great. That guy was the one who beat Donald Trump and I think that's the guy who can beat Donald Trump now. He knows --

RINA SHAH, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: And it was off the cuff, right? So, for me, yes, it was really appealing to me. I'm a registered Republican voter. And I looked at Joe Biden in that clip where he's standing next to Debbie Dingell and I saw Joe Biden for everything he's been for years. And that's who I'm proud to have as my president today. That says something. When you can look at your president, you can look at your leader and feel like those words resonate. That's not the Joe Biden I've seen for a couple weeks now, obviously. Everybody knows that. But that is the challenge here for the Democrats.

But I also think on the Republican side, and I wonder what you think of this, Marc, you know, casting Joe Biden as simply infirm just isn't enough. If I was truly behind the strategist desk with Trump world, which I'm not, I would say we got to go beyond that, because that's what they're relying on right now. And they think they're going to make a really solid V.P. pick. Those two things are not enough. The Biden machine knows how to operate. It's going to be okay. But for how long is the question.

[22:15:00]

MARC LOTTER, FORMER TRUMP 2020 DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Well, I think they are addressing it. I mean, look, I agree with you in this respect. I mean, the, the Biden infirmity or infirmary infirmity, the mental collapse, whatever, that's just what it is. And he's dealt with it. He's dealt with it for four years. It's going to come back up through the rest of the campaign.

But when you look at the four nights of the Republican National Convention next week, first night is make America wealthy again, people can't afford gas and groceries, Joe Biden's fault. Make America safe again, 12 million illegal immigrants, Joe Biden's fault. Make America strong again, two raging wars right now, one in the Middle East, one in Europe, Joe Biden's fault. Those are the issues that are going to survive that are going to actually decide this election.

The reason why Joe Biden was losing before the debate was because people can't afford their gas and groceries, don't like the southern border. None of those fundamentals have changed. You've just added all of this new mental stuff on top of it.

REINES: Less high minded (ph), back to your original question, if I were in the bunker right now, I would say, Mr. President, you got to do what you're doing. But you know what? Misery loves company. People are attacking you for how you look and your health. Are you kidding me? You're running against Donald Trump, who's not just 80, but just because he's orange and louder doesn't mean he's saner and healthier. He is questionable on his mental faculties, on his knowledge, his intelligence, and he has a very spotty health record. He lied and issued a false forge doctor's note in 2015, like I did in sixth grade or others I heard do.

BROWN: But then let me ask you this, let me follow up with that, because it's all about public perception, right? I mean, you can make this argument. But I think that our latest --

REINES: Well, but you want to bring them both in. You don't want it to be a one-sided conversation about, is Joe Biden healthy? It's a completely valid conversation to have, but not in a vacuum, because there are two choices. It's Joe Biden and it's Donald Trump. Donald Trump has got to screw loose. Donald Trump has had serious medical problems. If you don't think it's a lot, that's fine, if you don't think. But you know what? When media or anyone says, will you go to -- BROWN: You say serious medical problems, what do you mean?

REINES: Oh my God. So to begin with, he forged his doctor's note. His doctor's note in 2015 said --

BROWN: The hyperbolic note.

REINES: No, not just hyperbolic. He said all of Donald Trump's tests are positive. They're not supposed to all be positive. That's a problem.

JOHNSON: Can I -- I wanted to jump in real quick.

REINES: I'm sorry, then he disappears to Walter Reed for a day.

BROWN: I'm going to give you --

JOHNSON: To this point though here, the Republicans, they can go down this rabbit hole about immigration and Democrats can keep running those ads and that we had a deal until Donald Trump unfortunately blew it up. They can talk about the economy, but some of the headlines that we're not talking about this week is that there are world leaders, world economists saying that, you know what, the global economy is stronger because Joe Biden has been president of the United States, plus the backdrop of NATO with all of those world leaders standing behind Joe Biden, knowing who that man is, knowing that the United States are standing in the world has gotten better under him. That's the backdrop.

LOTTER: The world is at war because of him. The world is at war. But people do remember things were cheaper under Donald Trump. We had 1.4 percent inflation, $2 a gallon gasoline, and Joe Biden took one -- I'm sorry, 94 executive actions, first 100 days to undo border security and they know --

REINES: They joke that Joe Biden confuses Putin and Zelenskyy, and we remember that Donald Trump chose Putin over Zelenskyy. That's what people -- let's give them some credit.

And, look, Nancy Pelosi got it right. Let's hold them to the same standards. She said that from the very beginning. And I'd hate to regress back to health. If we want to check their health, let's take a carpool over to Walter Reed. Everyone takes the same test, head to toe. We all hear it. That sounds fair.

BROWN: So, because Trump said, I think it was today, right? I'll take a cognitive test if Biden does.

REINES: Let's go, head to toe.

SHAH: But regardless of all that, there's 100-some days left and both sides have one job, and it's to turn out people to vote for something, not just against the other guy. And that's a real challenge here. When I look at Donald Trump and look at the Republican Party, the party I belong to for my entire life, I cannot vote for Donald Trump in good conscience because I know this is a convicted felon who cannot vote for himself. American women are smart. We are the smartest women in the world. We're most highly educated, and we smell garbage from a mile away.

When you try to take a right from me, and I'm a Republican woman, do not strip my freedom from me and then tell me you're not doing that. That angers me more than anything else, and that is what Republicans are doing to me right now. I feel betrayed by this party, and I think this party could have put up somebody better this November, and they have chosen not to. This week could have been a turning point in the road for the Republicans, and they have chosen not to.

So, there is one job here. And with all due respect, Donald Trump has not earned my vote. He must be defeated to keep the American way. He is somebody who cannot vote for himself. We have to be practical in this moment, and I think millions of American people are.

So, regardless of what Joe Biden looks like today or tomorrow or even did yesterday, I will be voting against the juggernaut that is Trump.

REINES: I've been watching Marc and I think you convinced him.

BROWN: Okay.

LOTTER: Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit.

BROWN: We will find if, Marc has been convinced. I mean, no, I'm kidding. He hasn't been convinced. That's a hint.

All right, but stay here because we have to continue our discussion later in the show.

[22:20:00]

And also tonight we have new reporting that Biden is at risk of losing millions from big donors. I'll speak with a Hollywood filmmaker live.

Plus, we talk with black voters in swing states about why they're defending Biden and why some are skeptical of Vice President Kamala Harris.

And what has Trump been up to since the CNN debate? See what we found.

This is NewsNight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And we have more on our breaking news tonight, as President Biden tries to convince voters he is good for the long haul. He's having a harder time convincing rich Democratic donors. The New York Times reporting tonight that the largest pro-Biden super PAC is withholding $90 million if President Biden remains atop the ticket.

[22:25:05]

And now he is losing one of his most influential corners of support, Hollywood. Joining us now is filmmaker and Oscar-nominated screenwriter Billy Ray, and he also works with a number of Democratic down ballot candidates, we want to note. Hi, Billy. Thanks for coming on.

So, we want to know, you supported Biden in the last election, do you think Biden should quit this race now?

BILLY RAY, WRITER, DIRECTOR: I think a lot about Trump's first impeachment, remember those days, when he was so afraid of running against Joe Biden that he literally asked a foreign country to dig up dirt on Biden. And then Biden proved why that was a good idea, because in 2020 he whipped Trump. Now, now Donald Trump is out there saying Democrats should lay off Joe Biden, let him run his race. That should tell us something. In sports, when you find out what your opponent wants to do, and then you take it away from them. If they like fastballs, you throw them curveballs. If Donald Trump is telling us that he is eager to run against Joe Biden, I think we need to take that really seriously.

BROWN: So, it sounds like you want him to step aside. Is that fair?

RAY: I have nothing but respect for the president. I honestly don't believe that you can name three presidents in American history with a better first term than Joe Biden just had. He's been spectacular, and he saved the country from Trumpism. I will be in his debt forever. But I'm looking at numbers that tell me that seven out of ten independents now want him to step aside. Every race in America that's close is decided by independent voters. If seven out of ten of them don't think he's up to it, as much as I love and respect and admire the president, I think he needs to do this for the good of the country, because the alternative is not an alternative at all. We all remember what Donald Trump's presidency was like. It was just an example of an aptitude. It was four years of criminality disguised as a presidential administration. We can't do that again. So, I think --

BROWN: And, of course, millions of Americans want him back in office, I mean, millions of Americans. And he is doing better in a majority of the polls that we have seen. So, I mean, that is the reality that you, as a Democrat yourself, is facing right now. And we should note that you work with down ballot candidates in this election. I'm wondering, what are they saying about how Biden's decision to stay in the race will affect their chances? You work with, what is it, about 80 members?

RAY: Yes, that's right. And this is the, the unpaid half of my day. I try to help them with messaging. And, in some ways, I try to help them to sound less like Democrats. I try to teach them how to make arguments that independent voters can actually hear, because independent voters are everything in close American elections.

Here's what I can tell you. I think everybody out there feels that the Democratic Party has a moment of opportunity here that put American political parties just never get. We have a chance to actually have a moment of rebirth. We have a chance to redefine ourselves as a party for the American people. For the last three years, 85 percent of Americans have told us they don't want the same choice they had in 2020. They don't want to be told that their only options are President Biden or Donald Trump. The Republicans have already established that they're not listening to those 85 percent of the Americans. They're saying, here's Donald Trump for the third time. Sorry, you're going to get this shoved down your throat.

We as Democrats can say to Americans, we heard you. We're listening. Here's something else. Here's something new. I think if we are bold in that way, that the American people will reward us. I think the voters will reward us. And I think the people, at least the people that I've been speaking to, that are members of Congress, all believe that same thing.

BROWN: There's been some reporting since the debate about major donors freezing funds. Do you think those donors will just put the money into places like the DCCC rather than the Biden Harris campaign or are you getting the sense that the freeze is more permanent? Of course, again, you're in Hollywood. You're talking to some of these, these donors.

RAY: It's hard for me to know exactly. I think at the end of the day that Democrats will do the same thing I'm going to do, which is whatever is required to defeat Trumpism. That's the bottom line. If the president decides that he's going to keep running, I'm going to do everything in my power to support him. I will do whatever is required to save this country from Trumpism, which I believe to be an existential threat. I think most donors would agree with me.

The question is, can we move all of those disaffected independent voters who are telling us that they don't believe that President Biden is up to the challenge? That's going to be tough particularly in the swing states, and the swing states are going to be, you know, determinative here. So, I don't know that it's necessarily a question of whether or not the money's going to get unfrozen. Of course it's going to get unfrozen. It's can it do enough.

[22:30:09]

BROWN: Let me just quickly ask you, because we do need to go soon, but, you know, George Clooney wrote his op ed calling for Biden to step aside, Ashley Judd did today. Biden though, he's, and I'm being told this tonight, look, he is not going anywhere unless polls show that he is going to, you know, it's just everything collapses.

And I'm wondering if what you think about these Hollywood stars coming forward and publicly telling Biden to step aside, and if you're worried that it further -- potentially further weakens him, weakens your Democratic candidate who says he's in this race through the election.

RAY: Of course, that's a risk. And I may be eating these words in three weeks if the president decides that he's going to keep running. We'll see if that's the eventuality. What I can tell you for sure is that everybody who is around the president is concerned about the future of the country, and everybody knows that the future of the country can't be left in the hands of Donald Trump.

So, it's really just a question of how are we going to attack that as our shared problem. You know, Hollywood will rally behind who the candidate is whenever that moment becomes clear. But I don't think it's a problem that the president hasn't yet declared that he's stepping aside.

Personally, I think the timing is critical here. I would love for the Republicans to go into their convention and spend four days, you know, beating up on President Biden and then find out that he's not running. They will have wasted those four days of convention time. I think that would be, you know, a baller move, as my kids would say. I think the timing really matters here.

BROWN: All right. And again, President Biden keeps saying, he said it again tonight, he's not going anywhere. He's going to stay in. He's going to beat Trump. So, but Billy Ray, really great to have you on and to hear your insight. Thank you so much for your time.

RAY: I really appreciate it. Thank you.

BROWN: Up next, did Donald Trump just expand his running mate poll? The surprising name is floating as a decision is imminent days before the convention. I'll discuss with my panel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:36:29]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: "My schedule has been full bore. I've done -- and where has Trump been? Riding around on his golf cart, filling out his score card before he hits the ball?"

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Well, Joe Biden says that his opponent has been busy on the green instead of the trail. And we looked at the calendar and you know what? He is right. Since the CNN debate on June 27th, take a look at this right here.

The day after Donald Trump held an event in Virginia and did a T.V. interview, then all those days you see shaded in yellow, he held zero public events. And on the days you see the phones, well, we didn't see him either, even though he called into radio shows.

The only exceptions, a rally at his resort and a meeting with an autocrat at Mar-a-Lago. Both, of course, not much of a travel burden. They came to him. Of course, all that changes next week when the convention starts and Trump is teasing his V.P. finalists, adding a fourth name to the mix.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I watched Tim Scott on television yesterday. He was fierce and great. He was great. I watched Marco over the weekend on television. He was incredible. J.D.'s been great. You have a man named Burgum, who's a fantastic governor in North Dakota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, back with a panel, Marc, to you first. All of our reporting recently has indicated that Tim Scott was not in the top three. Suddenly, Trump throws that out there. Is he actually -- what's going on here?

LOTTER: I think he's still in the mix, but I don't think he's among those top three. I mean, and Trump, he --

BROWN: Do you think that was strategic that Trump mentioned his name?

LOTTER: I think Trump often does that. He teases those last names up to the last minute. I was involved in this in 2016, and up until the moment that, you know, the tweet came out and then the announcement, they were still, is he going to go with Christie? Is he going to go with Pence? That's the way. We'll find out probably, I would say --

BROWN: Who do you think he should go with?

LOTTER: Yes.

BROWN: Who?

LOTTER: Yes.

BROWN: Okay.

LOTTER: No, I'm not going to. Any of them are good. Any of them are good.

BROWN: Okay.

JOHNSON: Well, I just think this whole thing is wild that we are talking about a former president having to pick a vice president because his vice president, when he was in office, is not endorsing him.

He literally let him sit at the Capitol while they were chanting, hang Mike Pence. Like, this is absurd. And this is actually what we should be talking about. The fact that he is going after, he is having to pick another vice president.

To be very clear, all of these guys are horrible in abortion. They're horrible in immigration. They're horrible on so many of the issues that the Democratic base actually is riled up around. So, honestly, this fight is actually helpful for us.

SHAH: I'm a big fan of alliteration. So, let me just put it this way. This V.P. list, this top three deal that they're doing, it's a charade. It is nothing but a charade. You look at Rubio, he lacks courage. You look at Vance, he lacks charisma. And then you look at Burgum, and he's a cartoon. So, I think there's actually a sleeper list, somebody that is a bit of a rule breaker, like Trump. Trump loves to break the rules. Why wouldn't he look at somebody like a Kristi Noem? He knows that women's issues are on the ballot, still, this election in November. And so, I --

BROWN: But what about the book?

SHAH: Oh, no, I don't think that was enough to kill it. I really -- no pun intended here.

JOHNSON: I also don't think a woman with him is going to help him at all.

REINES: Hold on. Trump has never had a pet. He doesn't care about dogs.

BROWN: I know. The voters, the voters.

SHAH: I think the voters would like a strong patriotic woman to counter the ballot.

REINES: If Donald Trump suddenly doesn't like pets, his entire base will suddenly not like pets.

LOTTER: And I think the point that he picked Pence in 2016 was a political calculus. They counter-programmed, obviously, Trump with the -- someone with no vetting issues, who's always on message, who's going to be the evangelical outreach and the traditional GOP.

[22:40:04]

I don't see him breaking the mold and just going off on, you know, on a fly. It'll be one of those three or four people.

REINES: Yeah, I mean, to Riz's point, I mean, yeah, it could be any number of people. Because frankly, it's a pretty boring list. I'm surprised that he didn't have a little bit more of creativity. Of those four, I don't know why Scott's back in the mix. I don't think that's real. He's certainly not fierce. I -- Rubio, I don't get. At least Vance is a mini-me. And I think, you know --

JOHNSON: His son is pushing for it.

REINES: He's also 39, which kills me as someone no longer 39.

JOHNSON: Me neither, me neither.

REINES: But to the extent that you have an age issue that you want to talk about, hey, look at this young guy. And there's a reason why there's reporting that Rupert Murdoch doesn't want Vance. It's because Murdoch wants some, you know, basis to return to a normalcy in the Republican Party, which is exactly why, you know, Vance is the guy among those -- among that bunch.

BROWN: All right, everyone. Thank you so much, much appreciated. Up next, why many black voters are defending Joe Biden. We caught up with some in some swing states. Hearing their surprising explanation and their thoughts on Vice President Kamala Harris. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:45:40]

BROWN: Tonight, a crowd in Detroit welcomed the president with chants of four more years. But in another battleground state of Georgia, CNN's Rene Marsh spoke with black voters on whether they're still all in for Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're in the battleground state of Georgia for breakfast, lunch and dinner with black Democratic voters. Our first stop, the black-owned Atlantis Breakfast Club. In between bites of pancakes, chicken and waffles, voters weighed in on the race for president.

JARITA BURDETTE, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I am voting for democracy. And as of right now, a convicted felon is not it. It's not it. Biden's our guy. That's who I'm riding with.

KELVIN BURDETTE, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I'm a solid no. Yes, I don't want him to step aside. There's no other choice at this time.

MARSH (voice-over): After Biden's poor debate performance, some members of his own party have called on him to exit the race over fears he can't win. In 2020, Biden won Georgia by fewer than 12,000 votes, while winning black voters in the state by more than 70 points against Donald Trump. This couple supports Biden staying the course, but they worry he won't win.

K. BURDETTE: In all honesty, it's looking real doubtful. As a black man, I talked to several other black men, and a lot of them are voting for Trump.

MARSH (voice-over): A few tables away, these young women were more optimistic.

MARSH: What comes to the top of your head? Joe Biden.

JAYLA KORIYAN, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Our next president.

MARSH: Would you support a Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket if you did get replaced?

ROBYN GIPSON, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I feel as though Kamala -- the only thing I know her for is we did it, Joe. Like, I don't know her for really anything else. She hasn't proven -- it's been four years and I haven't seen anything.

KORIYAN: I haven't seen her bring it, not in like a campaign, not in any initiatives, like just really stepping up. MARSH (voice-over): Next, it was lunch with a 44-year-old cardiologist

and a 51-year-old political organizer, both with a message for Democrats.

UNKNOWN: Don't rock the boat unless you have a plan to get me back to shore.

RHONDA BRIGGINS, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: What is the plan? I mean, you're saying step down, but then what's the ticket?

MARSH (voice-over): They say this political moment punctuates America's inequities. While they believe Kamala Harris is capable of serving as president, they don't think she should replace Biden at the top of the ticket.

MARSH: You said the America that we're in, that you feel as if you have to vote for a frail white man versus a competent black woman.

ALANNA MORRIS, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Absolutely. There's a whole bunch of folks in the middle and I don't believe that they're going to vote for her. And even if you go back to Hillary Clinton as a nominee, America has shown us that it is not ready for a female leader.

BRIGGINS: Sexism in America is more prevalent than even racism in America. And so to be a black woman, you get both hits.

MARSH: So, we're headed to our last stop, dinner with older voters at a church in Atlanta.

GEORGE MITCHELL, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: I'm 78 years old, in my right mind and I'm going to vote for Joe Biden.

MARSH (voice-over): Here, we found the same support for Biden to remain in the race, coupled with emerging frustration about calls for Biden to step aside.

MICHELE MITCHELL, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: The Democratic Party knew four years ago how old Joe Biden would be in 2024. So, to try to pull a stunt like this at the 11th hour is very disappointing.

MARSH (voice-over): For these seniors, age is an asset.

SAMMY GODWIN, GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Joe Biden has been a vice president for eight years. Now, he's been a president for four years. That's a lot of experience.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH (on-camera): Well, you saw the views of the voters within the piece there who I spoke with, but public polls do show more of a divide amongst black voters when it comes to whether or not Biden should step aside, Pam.

BROWN: It's interesting, though, because some of the voters you spoke to, they have their criticisms of Joe Biden, but they still support him. They still want him to stay atop the ticket. Tell us a little bit more about the why behind that.

MARSH: Yeah, I mean, you're right. There were some who saw that debate. One woman said to me she didn't even finish watching it because it was sad and it was terrible to watch.

[22:50:00]

Another said, I cannot believe that these are our two choices. So, it's not like, you know, these are all out cheerleaders of Joe Biden. That being said, their goal here is to pick someone that they believe will beat Donald Trump. And they truly believe that it is Joe Biden.

The one thing that that came through when talking to these voters is they have a genuine fear of a second Trump presidency and the policies. So, it's not so much about the person. It's more so about who do they think could really win.

The other thing that I heard quite a bit was what are the other options? Who are these other people that could replace Joe Biden? And of course, there are names out there, but no names that they feel could actually win the race against Trump.

So, they're not comfortable there. And that's allowing Biden to hold on to their support. And the last thing that I heard from all of them was this is a -- they're thinking about this in practical terms and from a strategy point of view. We're four months out. They just think, Pam, it is simply just too late to change the plan with four months to go until November.

BROWN: Such important and enlightening reporting from you, Rene Marsh. Thank you so much. Up next, the long history of Joe Biden and Donald Trump, loving names. We're going to show you the tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:56:07]

BROWN: Well, this week, the world watched an unforced error by Joe Biden that echoes a mistake the president has made over and over and over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Look, I wouldn't have picked Vice President Trump to be vice president, but I think she was not qualified to be president. So, let's start there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: Slip of the tongue, maybe, but it was his second verbal misfire of the night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: And now, I want to hand it over to the president of Ukraine who has as much courage as he has determination. Ladies and gentlemen, President Putin. President Putin. He's going to be President Putin. President Zelenskyy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: You'll notice that was Volodymyr Zelenskyy he was trying to introduce. He's Ukraine's president. He's at war with Russia. He's not the leader of Russia. That's a pretty important distinction at a very important moment. And Biden, well, he has a pattern of confusing world leaders, famous folks, even family. So, here is an incomplete list mixing up his wife and his sister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

By the way, this is my little sister, Valerie, and I'm Jill's husband. Oh, no, you switched on me. This is my wife. This is my sister. They switched on me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Forgetting who told everyone that ma'am -- mama, mama said, knock you out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The great artists of our time representing the groundbreaking legacy of hip hop in America, LLJ Cool J.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Committing an error of geography by confusing the presidents of Mexico and Egypt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: As you know, initially, the president of Mexico, Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And misnaming this congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Where's Doug? Congressman. He's around here somewhere. Oh, there you are. Doug, thanks for the passport into town.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Confusing a living French leader for a dead one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Right after I was elected, I went to what they call the G7 meeting, all the NATO leaders. I was in South -- and I sat down and I said, America's back. I meet Iran, the Germans, I mean, from France looked at me and said, I'm going to say, I said, you know, why, why are you back?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Shouting out a congresswoman who passed away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Bipartisan elected officials like Representative Governor Senator Braun, Senator Booker, Representative Jackie, are you here? Where's Jackie? I think she was going to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And forgetting which congressional caucus he was speaking to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: And I mean this sincerely, my dad, you say everyone, everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect. Congressional Black Caucus embodies all those values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so for all of you out there, they're like, what about Donald Trump? He does the same thing, too. Well, don't worry. We have a montage of that when he confused Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want, they turned it down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Saying he defeated Barack Obama and not Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We did with Obama, we won an election that everyone said couldn't be won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[23:00:00]

BROWN: Confusing a congressional ally for a government cooperator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Can it ever be like a Rick Gates' fault?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: No, Jimmy Connors is not Jimmy Carter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to evict this man, the worst president by far. Jimmy Connors is Jimmy. Jimmy Connors is good. He's also happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And blundering, which Bolton is which?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Secretary Pompeo is here, Secretary of State Mike Bolton, John Bolton is here. And John was very instrumental in some of the things we did yesterday, some of the meetings we had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, well, thank you for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts now.