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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
New Polls Show Harris Narrows Democrats' Gap Against Trump; Trump Refuses To Debate Until Democratic Nominee Official; Jennifer Aniston Blasts Sen. J.D. Vance (R-OH) Over Childless Cat Ladies; "NewsNight" Discusses V.P. Kamala Harris' Qualifications As A Presidential Candidate. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 25, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Tonight, big name --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Don't move. Don't move. Move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: -- in the game to sell America on Kamala Harris.
Plus, it is a big deal. Jennifer Aniston says J.D. Vance is no friend of hers after calling women who don't have children cat ladies.
Also, a swing state governor believes America is ready to say I do to an all female ticket.
And no takebacks, Nikki Haley says she meant everything she said about Donald Trump, but will vote for him anyway.
Live at the table, Joe Pinion, Elie Mystal, Jeff Duncan, and Jane Coaston. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight, State of the Race.
Good evening everyone, I'm Abby Phillip in New York. As always, let's get right to what America is talking about, a whole new race tonight. Kamala Harris is closing in on getting a massive endorsement from former President Barack Obama. She's been waiting all week for it. And Donald Trump apparently is no longer the clear leader in the presidential race, at least according to a new string of polls.
But also, tonight, Donald Trump is now suggesting that he won't commit to a debate until the Democrats formally commit to a nominee. Harris replying on Twitter, what happened to any time, any place, calling his bluff.
Our panel is here in New York. Jane, shocking, Donald Trump apparently backing out of this, but why --
JANE COASTON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You mean Donald Trump wants to back out of a commitment he made, stunning news. PHILLIP: Why hand this to her? At this particular moment, she's had a string of good days. Backing out of a debate is not a good look for really any candidate.
COASTON: It isn't. But I think that at this point, he wants to make this seem less certain than it already appears to be. I think that this is a moment, one, he doesn't want to do this debate, and, two, he does not want to appear to give her the respect she would deserve by saying he would do this debate.
And I think that this is just another moment in which Donald Trump wants the attention back on himself and also doesn't want to do this debate at all. I think he thinks that the first one, you know, he did one, and now he doesn't want to do another, and he's going to throw in a bunch of Trumpian buzzwords, but he just doesn't want to do it.
PHILLIP: Speaking of -- so this is the statement here. It is from, nominally from Stephen Cheung, but it's written by Donald Trump, because it says, there is a strong sense by many in the Democrat Party, namely Barack Hussein Obama, that Kamala Harris is a Marxist fraud who cannot beat Donald Trump.
ELIE MYSTAL, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT AND COLUMNIST, THE NATION MAGAZINE: I would like him to say that to her face, right, but he won't, because he's a little punk, right. And that's what you have to always remember about Donald Trump. He's a scared little punk. Because the thing you would do if you were a big, strong man who likes to beat on people, right, is that you say you debate whoever the Democrats put up. They want to put up Harris, you'll debate Harris. They want to put up Biden, you'll debate Biden. They want to put up, you know, the dog from Chuck E. Cheese, you debate the dog from Chuck E. Cheese, right? That's what a big, strong man does. But Donald Trump is not a big strong man. Donald Trump is a weak man's idea of a strong man. And that is why when faced with a person who can bring the case to him in a way that he's never heard it before, he's trying to backpedal away.
GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Chuck E. Cheese was a rat, not a dog. I think this is about --
PHILLIP: Not exactly what I thought you were going to say.
DUNCAN: I've got young kids. I think this is a momentum play for Donald Trump's team. I think that there's just been such a steamrolling week for Vice President Harris. I think if you look at in one week, what she's accomplished, the hundred-plus million dollars raised, the coalescing of the entire party. If he was to just say yes to a debate and it was on the books, the momentum would probably continue. This checks the brakes.
But I do think you see what his number one trait is in politics, and that's name calling. That is from top to bottom. That is nothing about name, all about name calling. And that's really what his number one trait is.
JOE PINION, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I believe that. This time last week, we were watching President Trump give his speech at the RNC to accept the nomination after having picked J.D. Vance as his running mate. I went to bed Saturday night well aware that Republicans were getting ready to steamroll Joe Biden.
[22:05:00]
And by the time I got to brunch at STK, Joe Biden was out of the race, and Kamala Harris was on her way to becoming the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party without a single vote cast in her name.
And so, irrespective of how you feel about that, I would say that whether you want to see it as a critique of President Trump or not, you see a Trump team responding in real time to a political landscape that is moving at warp speed. And I believe if we just had a nomination, where we had a whole week dropping balloons to say we're going to beat a man who's no longer in the race, I would say that having a little bit of reservation as to figuring out what's actually going to happen with the Democrats is probably a good thing.
PHILLIP: Yes.
MYSTAL: Do you think that the world's moving a little bit too fast for Donald Trump right now, like life kind of came at fascinating --
PINION: I mean, respectfully, I think the world's moving a little too fast for everyone. I would say that there's plenty of documented evidence that when you look in the aftermath of tragedies, that there is PTSD across the country. And I think that whether you hate President Trump or love him, we were this close away from not having a country, that we should all be on our knees, thanking God that President Trump was not struck by that bullet.
And so, even if you're looking at that, the unprecedented action of President Biden, whether you agree with it or not, for him to step aside the first time since 1968, this whole country has whiplash. And so, yes, I think things are moving quickly, and I think it behooves the Trump campaign, whether you want to vote for him or not, to do exactly what they're doing right now, absent, perhaps, the name calling, which I think, as we're going to probably talk about at the end of the show, is not going to benefit the Republicans in any way.
MYSTAL: If Trump was saying that he was recovering from the attempt on his life and he needed more time to get his stuff together, that would be one thing. But that's not what he's saying. What he's saying is that he's scared of debating Harris.
PINION: That's what you're saying.
MYSTAL: and there's no reason there's if he is as strong as you guys think that he is, there is no reason for him to be scared. Remember, he just had a debate against the former presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, where Trump won so hard, the man dropped out.
PINION: Correct.
MYSTAL: Right? So, like one would think that if Trump was as strong as he appears to be, that he would have no problems debating Kamala Harris, but instead he's calling her name out of his backpack.
PHILLIP: And the race has changed, to your point, Joe.
PINION: I get why you're making that argument. I'm just saying it is not the only argument. And I would submit once again that if you're looking at a Democratic Party that I would argue strategically decided to have a very, very late actual convention, and now you're looking at, again, this prospect of Kamala Harris being the nominee no one has voted for, whether you think that she's the right choice or not, I think you have to say that that's probably not what was the intent of the two party system.
So, yes, I think the Democratic Party is doing what they think is in their best interest and I do believe President Trump is doing what you believe is in his best interest.
PHILLIP: I have to say, on the two party system thing, I hear this argument a lot, but the idea that, you know, they have primaries, that's just what people have come up with. There's nothing in the Constitution that says that parties need to come up with --
PINION: There is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law.
PHILLIP: I know, but I'm just saying, that's a, that's a feature of modernity. They can -- by the rules of the individual parties, they can choose their nominee however they want.
PINION: No one is saying that they can't do it. I'm just saying that I would like the Democrats to just come out and acknowledge that they don't care. Again, as I have said many times --
MYSTAL: Harris was on the ticket, right?
COASTON: Yes, millions of people voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That all happened. I was there. It was 2020. Times were crazy. I voted for Joe Biden.
PHILLIP: Well, the assumption is that they voted for her also in the primary as well. Like, I mean, she was on this --
COASTON: This all take place.
DUNCAN: This is a fascinating conversation, but at the end of the day, this is not what's going to pick who the next president is. It's the 10 percent in the middle.
PHILLIP: Yes.
DUNCAN: And whichever party decides to stop playing tribalism, Republicans and Democrats both are feeding their own, whoever decides to figure out how can we make a message work for the 10 percent in the middle, right? Donald Trump's press release today with all those name calling, J.D. Vance's, all of his name calling and misgivings, are not working towards winning the 10 percent in the middle. If Kamala Harris is able to get some leniency from her base over the next few months, right, where they say, look, you've got our vote, we're going to show up, we're going to vote for you, we're going to support you, go win the audience that you need to win this race with, and give her the opportunity to have a conversation with the 10 percent in the middle, folks like me that maybe don't agree with all the policies but cannot imagine what four more years with Donald Trump would look like.
PHILLIP: Can I ask you, Geoff, I want to play this new Kamala Harris ad, and I'm just curious what this does for someone like you, as you said, maybe right there in the middle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Freedom, personal freedom is fundamental to who you are as Americans.
There's nothing more important, nothing more sacred.
That's been the work of my first term, to fight for our democracy.
This shouldn't be a red or blue issue.
To protect our rights, to make sure that everyone in this country is treated equally, and that everyone is given a fair shot at making it.
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The freedom not just to get by, but get ahead, the freedom to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to make decisions about your own body.
We choose a future where no child lives in poverty, where we can all afford healthcare, where no one is above the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:10:00]
PHILLIP: Same message, totally different messenger. And, actually, just watching them back to back, it's like a tonal shift. Does that change anything for you?
DUNCAN: Absolutely. You're speaking to the middle. You have a younger candidate that's willing to talk about the issues. And, look, very few people are going to agree in my 10 percent bloc with the policies of the left. We're just not, but we also care more about this country's future.
There's not -- I don't believe there's a single policy out there that would cause me to light this country on fire, right? I want to protect the Second Amendment. I want to have freedom of speech. I want to protect the border. I want to have lower inflation, all those things, but I don't think there's one issue that we'd light the country on fire over. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing is I'm playing the bank shot of supporting a Democrat, so I can actually have a Republican Party that I recognize at some point in the near future.
PHILLIP: Joe? PINION: Look, I'll simply say this. I believe in granting grace to those who we disagree with politically. I understood, intellectually, how there were Republicans who believed that somehow Joe Biden wouldn't govern as a moderate, particularly with the slim majorities that we had in the House and the Senate. We are now living in the thereafter. And here in the thereafter, we did not get that Joe Biden and I don't believe that you would be getting that Kamala Harris.
And so, yes, I do believe that for many Republicans and many people in the middle looking at the border, looking at the economy, looking at the fact that we've had congressional testimony that we have terrorist cells operating within this country, that it is an existential threat to our country. Not everyone is going to agree with that, but I do believe that is part of what's on the ballot as well.
MYSTAL: But I think you didn't answer Geoff's question, which is saying -- what, Geoff, I hear you saying is that there are things more important than your particular policy preference on the border. There are things more important than your particular policy preference on corporate tax rates. And those things that are more important are whether or not we have a democracy that we can all believe in, whether or not we have the rule of law apply in this country. And what Geoff, I hear you saying, is that those things are elevated above the usual petty, partisan squabbles and concerns.
PINION: I do not believe anything is elevated over preventing the next 9/11-style attack in this country, which we are quickly courting by virtue of the policies that are in place. So, yes, I understand that there are people who are going to have a different checklist of what they believe is important for America to survive. My checklist and the checklist of a great many Americans starts with the fact that you cannot have millions of people coming to our country that are undocumented. You do not have the ability to go asylum shopping.
We should have compassion for all of those who are fleeing oppression, but that does not mean that we do not have to have a sovereign border. And everything, from the economy to the border, to the chaos on the global stage that was supposed to be quelled simply by electing Joe Biden is why many, many people are looking at President Trump who didn't vote for him the first time or the second time. And it's also why you see those numbers so close.
MYSTAL: Your checklist seems to start with people who are coming into this country. Why doesn't your checklist start with people like you, people who are already in this country, and what kind of rights they will have in this country?
PINION: My checklist is in response to what my friend here is talking about as it relates to, is there an existential threat to the country itself collapsing? If you're talking about what's happening within the borders of this country, oh, there is a whole lot to talk about. We could talk about environmental policies passed by the left that make absolutely no sense, a nuclear plant here in New York State that gets shut down and emissions go up 30 percent. So, there's a whole lot of policies going on between the walls of this nation that don't make a whole lot of sense. PHILLIP: Here's what I'll say, we'll continue this conversation in just a moment, but I think what Geoff is also talking about is that Donald Trump has actually done a really big thing to try to undermine democracy, which is to claim falsely that he won the last election and to urge his supporters to basically and like riot at the Capitol.
DUNCAN: I sat in the front row of conversation in Georgia. I sat there. I know Brad Raffensperger. I talked to Brad Raffensperger and Gabe Sterling every day. I talked to Governor Kemp. I watched the lies come. I watched -- I listened to the death threats come into my family. I watched guards outside my house, outside my office, all because I wouldn't -- I was a Republican and I wouldn't lie like Donald Trump did about the election being rigged.
Every issue you raised were absolute issues, the border, inflation, foreign policy. All of those are important. I wish we were having those exact conversations as Republicans, and we were able to own those conversations. But instead we have a flawed candidate who tried to usurp democracy, and now he's trying to fake his way back into the front door.
He was a fake Republican for the first four years, and he'll be a dangerous fake Republican the next four years.
PINION: Look, I'll just say this. What happened to your family shouldn't happen to anybody in this country, and as I've said --
DUNACN: And we can solve it in one second. If Donald Trump picked up a microphone, instead of calling names, if he sent out a press release and said, stop, don't do it on my behalf or under my name. He's had four years to do it, and he hasn't done it once.
PINION: Well, look, again, I understand your position. I think my position is that the policies that are being passed by Kamala Harris and being passed by Joe Biden, that will continue to be passed, what will probably look more like the fourth term of Barack Obama than the first term of some type of quantum leap forward for Kamala Harris, just my opinion, is so dangerous to the actual stability of this country that I believe that, flawed or not, President Trump is the right choice to lead this country with --
[22:15:08]
We had two terms of -- I just want to say, just for the record, we had two terms of Barack Obama, and the country did not fall apart. And we didn't have criminals trying to overturn their election. So, the idea that the next term of Barack Obama will be some different existential threat doesn't link up with what actually happened when Barack Obama was president.
PHILLIP: All right. Guys, we are going to leave it there. Everyone, stick around for us.
Coming up next, Jennifer Aniston, she enters the chat. She's ripping J.D. Vance over his childless cat lady remarks. But there is also a new clip that is going around showing him going even further with those kinds of comments. We'll have a special guest joining us in our fifth seat at the table. Stand by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:13]
PHILLIP: A plotline that's kick you in the crotch, spit on your neck, fantastic if you're a Republican. I'm told that is a Friends reference, I don't know what it means, but here's what's happening. J.D. Vance has managed to anger a whole lot of women, including FRIENDS star Jennifer Aniston.
So, Aniston wrote on Instagram, I truly can't believe this is coming from a potential V.P. of the United States. Mr. Vance, I pray that your daughter is fortunate enough to bear children of her own one day. The this she is talking about are these remarks that's resurfaced this week of Vance comparing childless women to cat ladies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We're effectively run in this country via the Democrats via our corporate oligarchs, by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made, and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too.
And it's just a basic fact. You look at Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, AOC, the entire future of the Democrats is controlled by people without children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Journalist and Lift Our Voices co-founder Gretchen Carlson is joining the table as a special guest.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST AND CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: Great to be here.
PHILLIP: Also a FRIENDS expert, correct?
CARLSON: Oh my gosh, that would be my daughter, but I'll try.
PHILLIP: Okay. But this J.D. Vance thing, I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Can you?
CARLSON: Well, look since I did what I did at Fox News eight years ago now, coming forward about harassment, I'm used to hearing these kinds of things said about women, but I've also tried to be a unifier in the sense of bringing both parties together. So, I've been responsible for passing two bipartisan pieces of legislation to make workplaces safer as a result. And I work every day to lift up women, minorities, and other protected classes. So, the idea that we're still in this era of lambasting women because it's an easy, cheap shot is really highly offensive to me.
Number two, like I am emblematic of the votes that both candidates are desperate for. I'm a registered independent, and so I'm also a suburban mom. So, there you have it. These comments do not work with women who are suburban moms, and women who are independents.
PHILLIP: Including women, by the way, who have children. Because if you have a child, you know that sometimes, it's hard to have one. This is what I don't understand about this. Let me just play this other J.D. Vance clip, just so that you can understand. This was not a fluke. This is actually something that's been a talking point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: When you go to the polls in this country, as a parent, you should have more power, you should have more of an ability to speak your voice in our democratic republic than people who don't have kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, Jane, you cover the right. What is happening here that the idea of people participating in our democracy if they don't have children is something that they're trying to reduce or do away with?
COASTON: So, I think that J.D. Vance is representative of a very specific group of people on the right, and that is extremely online weirdos. This is someone who uses terms like the cathedral and the longhouse, someone who believes that -- please do not ask. Someone who thinks that a person named Bronze Age Pervert is like the vizier of knowledge, so like this is a very specific type of person.
And among these types of people, single women are the enemy. Ben Domenech wrote a piece for The Spectator a while back talking about this and talking about how Representative Matt Gaetz said, we don't need Karens if we've got Julios and Jamals. The idea that women are a problem, women are the enemy, you see people online talking about how we need to repeal the 19th Amendment and that women, whether they're having kids or not having kids, whether they're married or single, they are a problem. They're always a problem.
PHILLIP: What about Tim Scott? What about Lindsey Graham?
COASTON: Well, that doesn't count.
PHILLIP: A lot of men are childless.
MYSTAL: George Washington didn't have any children. And I believe he had a statement --
COASTON: Notably, no president we've had has (INAUDIBLE), I believe.
DUNCAN: This is just a growing list of just horrible gaffes. I don't even want to refer to what he said about women as a gaffe. It's just disgusting. But I think buyer's remorse is setting in across the Republican Party every which way watching this man unpack. It seems like he's -- you know these gaffes are public. He's giving public speeches. He's written books. He's just one thing after another. Donald Trump walked out of that convention intoxicated on his own press clippings and he just thought, well, I'll just pick mini me and won't worry about it because I'm going to win by 20 points, and here we are. It's going to be a it's going to be a horse race. COASTON: But I want to jump in quickly, because I don't think -- this is not gaffes. Like gaffes would be like going whoo too loudly at a campaign function, like Howard Dean. Did this is a very specific type of belief system that I think is worth examining.
[22:25:02]
I want to say again, this is not all Republicans. I know you've heard from Meghan McCain and a bunch of other women on the right who are saying like, this is weird. This is all very weird.
PHILLIP: So, to Jane's point, I mean, it's not -- it's a very specific thing. Okay, the other person espousing this, just defending this is Blake Masters, another acolyte of the Peter Thiels of the world. Political leaders should have children. Certainly, they should at least be married. If you aren't running or can't run a household of your own, how can you relate to a constituency of families or govern wisely with respect to future generations? Skin in the game matters.
COASTON: Wow.
CARLSON: But speaking of children, I think this is incredibly damaging to our children. I'm lucky enough to be a parent. It was hard for me to also get pregnant, but I have a 21-year-old daughter and a 19-year- old son. This is so damaging to our kids because what does it say to them? It says that gaffes or deliberate comments are the norm now.
We're still calling women these vile names. And that means that girls are growing up in our society being demoralized and thinking that that's okay. And what might be more important is what we're telling our sons, which is, it's okay to name call girls. It's okay to think this way about women. And that's how we've stayed in this vicious cycle of inequality, because it's these cultural norms that get passed on from generation to generation.
So, I think it's actually, to your point, much more serious than a gaffe. I think it's deliberate, and it's how we don't get out of this vicious cycle.
PHILLIP: I want to let Joe get in here on this one.
PINION: Look, I think --
PHILLIP: Not to force you to defend this, but, you know --
PINION: Look, the Twitter sphere giveth and the Twitter sphere taketh. I think the reality is it is a bombastic iteration of an era of crass politics, that in many ways has pervaded our body politic across the political spectrum. Certainly in this particular vein, this particular level of vileness impacts the Republican Party in a way that certainly is not beneficial to our country and sure as heck isn't going to help you win a 2024 election.
PHILLIP: Do you think -- I mean, he said this on T.V. He said it at, I mean, what appeared to be like a think tank. I mean, these were prepared things that he wanted to say. Is that Twitter or social media or --
PINION: Look, I think we could sit here and have a four-minute conversation trying to intellectualize what is a very real vein, this thought that we do not have enough children being born, this notion that the rights of parents are being stripped away from them. But, ultimately, in the end, to have that conversation has to be done in such a very nuanced way as to avoid what is happening right now, which is a great deal of women and a great deal of Americans feel as if the Republican Party is now hostile to individuals who are not --
MYSTAL: There is no nuance about whether or not the government has an interest in telling other people what to do in the privacy of their own bedrooms, how to how to manage their own households,or what they can and cannot do with their wounds, right? There is no nuance to the world in which J.D. Vance wants us to exist in, where people like J.D. Vance get to decide which voters are more important or less important based on what happens in their bedrooms. That is just not something that should be an option.
But that idea that this is a thing that people can talk about and think about and have a conversation about is exactly what is wrong with this wing. And I agree with you that this is a wing, but this wing of the Republican Party. And it needs to be stamped out. Not by people like me, who is like, this ain't my problem, right? It needs to be snapped out by people within the Republican Party who tell people like Vance, no.
CARLSON: Especially men, especially men in the Republican Party who will take a stand against it. It shouldn't always just be on the shoulders of women.
DUNCAN: Absolutely.
CARLSON: Thank you, Geoff.
COASTON: So like, it's really worth noting, like something I keep thinking about is why did Trump choose J.D. Vance? Because J.D. Vance is the pick that you make if you are so sure you're going to win that you don't really need to reach out, you reach down. You reach down to the base you already have. And J.D. Vance is not representative of where I'm from, Southwestern Ohio, the good people, the city of Cincinnati, and his own Middletown High School. He is representative of red pilled dorks on the internet. Red pilled dorks on the internet? We're already going to vote for Donald Trump.
And for him to be as a part of this, because I saw there was some effort by the Trump campaign to try to clean this up a little bit where there's also, well, he didn't mean women who can't have children.
PHILLIP: Right, because there's a part of the clip where preceding the one that I just played where he says, well, this isn't about the women who can't have children, or maybe they're having trouble or they're trying or whatever, but I don't know that that makes it any better.
COASTON: No, it doesn't. It doesn't make it any better. Like what are you talking about, like me, some useless whore because I don't have children? Like come on, like you were talking about people participating in politics.
PHILLIP: The other consequence of all of this, it's not happening in a vacuum, right?
[22:30:01]
He is now -- Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are now running against a woman. And just to lighten up the mood, I mean, there's one cat lady in particular who, who knows, may have something to say about this.
Here's Taylor Swift with her childless cat lady self on the cover of "Time" magazine. But right now, tonight, there's a call organized by White women for Harris --150,000 women plus on a Zoom, raising over a $1.7 million. I mean, this stuff is incredibly galvanizing on the left.
DUNCAN: That's the 10 percent in the middle. They are a huge part of that 10 percent in the middle, maybe slightly left, slightly right. But that's the 10 percent in the middle.
I-- Gretchen, going back to what you talked about, I look at this raising -- my wife and I are raising three boys. And one of the most repulsive things to me was trying to raise three boys as a Republican -- as an elected Republican, trying to point excuse off what Donald Trump would say on Twitter, what Donald Trump would say on T.V., what Donald Trump would say in person when we were in the crowd. How do I explain to my kids? No, don't say that. Don't say that.
There is no wishy-washy. Men need to stand up and say, this is not okay. This is not the way we're going to act. We're not going to reward you with our vote if you act like this.
CARLSON: And we're not going to allow you to do what happened with Hillary Clinton the first time. You know, let's just put a stop to it right now. There's enough to talk about with policy --
PHILLIP: Yeah, yeah.
CARLSON: -- in this nation that we don't need to go to the bottom line.
PHILLIP: I mean, there is -- there is policy and yet there's all this effort to, it seems, put, you know, women and their supposed roles in society, men and their supposed roles in society on the table.
COASTON: There's a growing gender gap in voting. It has been for a long time. And we've seen this in the last 20 years. It used to be that women in first world countries were generally more conservative than men. That has changed over the last 15 to 20 years.
And you look at the Republican Party right now, and you look at, you know, I talk to conservative women all the time, and they're like, yeah. It turns out that when representatives are saying, we don't even need you. We can just get black men and Latino men. We don't need women anymore.
We're not going to think about women when we have at the RNC, you walking out to "It's a Man's World", like, great song, but come on.
PINION: I believe that clearly there's a gender gap. Clearly, President Trump went into this election with a serious problem with suburban housewives. But I think ultimately --
DUNCAN: For obvious reasons.
PINION: For obvious reasons, right. But I do think that if you're actually just looking at what happened, even with the pick of J.D. Vance, you go back to 2020, the race with Joe Biden, and you saw a decline, an erosion of support with white males who did not have a college degree.
And I believe that if you are setting up for a rematch, you are trying to figure out how do you stop that erosion? How do you get back to where you were? As I said, I went to bed on Saturday night. Joe Biden was going to be the nominee.
President Trump was pulling away. It is a fundamentally new race. It has been reset. Democrats clearly had this in the tank and the cannon ready to go after they rolled out Kamala Harris as their soon-to-be presumptive nominee.
So, we have to, in many ways, reevaluate how the party is going to actually message on this up and down the ballot.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
PINION: Otherwise, it's going to cost us races up and down.
PHILLIP: Yeah, everyone, hang on for us. We've got a lot more ahead. Is America actually ready for an all-female ticket? What about a Jewish or a gay vice president? We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:37:38]
PHILLIP: As the V.P. search intensifies tonight, Democrats are grappling with whether it's a good idea for Kamala Harris to choose a Jewish running mate in Josh Shapiro. What about a gay running mate in Pete Buttigieg or another woman like governor of Michigan who thinks that this all shouldn't be an issue?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MICHIGAN): I do believe that we are ready for a two-woman ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, are we ready? CARLSON: Yeah, look, I think we should stop actually asking that
question because the more we ask the question, are we ready, the more that we're never going to get it done. I think we should just look at people based on their policies, their experience, and their qualifications -
PHILLIP: Right.
CARLSON: -- and not continue, especially for women. I think that's why we haven't had a female president because we continue to talk about, oh, it sounds so unbelievable, right? I think if we just left that aside, and I can say this as a member of the media, I think we should stop asking that question.
PHILLIP: Yeah, by the way, it is normal everywhere but here.
COASTON: Right, and I think that that kind of barstool prognosticating, and we've seen that every race where people say like, oh, I would vote for a female president, a Black president, a Jewish president, but I'm worried about those people. Would they vote for this other group? And it's that kind of like, oh, I don't know what other people would do.
And I think that people can say like, I am ready for this and I'm also ready to consider these particular politicians on their merits. Are you ready to vote for the former secretary of transportation?
Are you ready to vote for the current governor of Pennsylvania with like specific ideas and values and you could talk about school vouchers. Like, I think I agree. I think it's time, like, let's think about people within the realm as policy, especially politics is the road to policy. Let's talk about this.
PHILLIP: But I mean, it's also politics, right? Like, and if it were any other group of people, it's always, the ticket is always about some kind of balance.
COASTON: Right.
PHILLIP: I mean, is that just politically wise to have two people who are fundamentally known for the same, a lot of the same issues, who have a lot of the same kind of portfolio in terms of how they might relate to.
DUNCAN: I do think you have to play electoral calculus, right? You got to make sure you are able to win a state or you bring something to the ticket. Unlike what Donald Trump did with J.D. Vance, he brought nothing but just mini me, maybe a backup singer.
[22:40:00]
But I do think this country is so thirsty for genuine leadership. It's been so long since we've seen something that was energetic and bold and visionary and vision casting. This country just needs to feel a genuine leader. I think, I don't care if it's two women, I don't care if it's a woman, man. The mix does not matter. It's just genuine, authentic leadership.
Somebody who buys into policy and being able to defend and explain their policies. Being able to be empathetic and understand the other side, right? That's a huge issue -- being empathetic, Democrats to Republicans or Republicans to Democrats.
And use a tone that actually sounds like the President of the United States instead of to use your word earlier, a punk. Right? Just be proud, whether you're on Twitter or giving a speech or talking to a foreign dignitary. Act like a president.
MYSTAL: So, look, I do not think, I agree. I think I like to, in "The Nation", I wrote about how, speaking of children, my mother, when I was thinking about having children, I went to my mother and I was like, mom, I'm not ready to have kids. And she basically told me, well, praise science, you got nine months to get ready. Right? Like that's what you got, right?
And so, this question, like America is going to have six months to get ready for whoever that ticket is. And I think that America will get there by then. I do not believe in a country where there is a person out there that is like, well, I wouldn't vote for two women. One woman, all right. Two women, that's too much estrogen. Like, I don't think that's not a person that's like in Brett Stevens' column.
PHILLIP: What about, in all seriousness, what about a gay man in Pete Buttigieg, who a lot of Democrats believe is one of their best messengers out there. Some people, he's already being attacked for being gay.
MYSTAL: One of the best messengers the Democrats have. He is very, very good at speaking to exactly the 10 percent of voters that you've been talking about, Geoff. And for me, he is one of the strongest reformers that we have in our party when it comes to the Supreme Court, which we didn't get to talk about this in the last segment.
But when we look at a Buttigieg or when we look at a Whitmer, what's the most important issue in this election for a lot of those 150,000 women that are on that call right now? Abortion. And who is going to make that case the most, not just from the top of the ticket, but also from the second, number two spot, Whitmer and Buttigieg in different ways can make that case very effective.
CARLSON: Well, Governor Whitmer had made that part of her election in her home state. I would also just say back to your practicality, Abby, look, two women together going up against the machismo Trump and Vance right now, then, yeah. I mean, then there is superpower in that, in my mind.
PHILLIP: And you make a good point. Nobody talks about the two white men on a ticket. It's just normal. It's not a problem.
PINION: Sharp contrasts work in American politics. I think if Democrats try to check the box, they're going to be in for a rude awakening come November. I think if Democrats choose the person that's going to be the strongest, that helps them win electorally, the Republicans are going to be in for a fight.
Look, I think that we spend a lot of time trying to pretend that race doesn't exist when it's convenient and focusing solely on race when it's also convenient. I think ultimately, even if you look at what happened with the election of Barack Obama, I think you cannot underestimate the power of Barack Obama having been able to go out and win that Iowa caucus.
I think that if we go all the way back to Jesse Jackson, when he ran for president back in '84 and '88 and saying that his own grandmother was afraid to vote for him because she was afraid that something bad was going to happen to him.
And so, I do think that in this kind of abridged primary here, or lack thereof, the Democrats are facing, where you have Kamala Harris, who yes, is a known quantity, but no, did not receive any votes in this primary directly. I think that they have to be quite conscious about what --
PHILLIP: Who do you think is the strongest candidate that, you know, in the vice presidential world, from a Republican perspective, out of curiosity?
PINION: Look, I don't think I'm going to do the Democrats who work for them, but look, I'll just say this.
PHILLIP: If you're looking --
DUNCAN: I've got some ideas.
PHILLIP: Who would be, you know, someone who would give the Trump campaign a little bit of fear here?
PINION: I don't think the Trump campaign is going to be afraid of anyone, but I do think that if you're talking about what are the objectives for Republicans, we need to make sure that we win Pennsylvania. We need to make sure that we win North Carolina.
There is a pathway for President Trump to be elected president of the United States of America, even if he loses Michigan and Wisconsin and Arizona, as long as he holds on to places like North Carolina and Pennsylvania.
So, yes, that is a critical reason why I think that Democrats are probably mulling this over. I also think it's part of the reason, going back to the beginning of the show, why President Trump, absent of normal, is holding his fire, because we don't really know who we're running against. We have no idea what kind of ticket the Democrats --
PHILLIP: You mean by that not agreeing initially to this debate? Who are you worried about?
DUNCAN: I'm a big fan of governors, right?
PHILLIP: Or who would you be worried about? DUNCAN: I think coming out of that executive role, understanding budgets, understanding how to work with legislatures, understanding how to organize large organizations. So, I look at you've got to win Pennsylvania, so Shapiro. I like Governor Beshear, who's really worked in a Republican state and won twice.
Roy Cooper, he's done the same thing down in North Carolina. I think -- and Meg Whitmer, we've got to win, you know, Michigan if, I say we, like I'm on the team temporarily.
[22:45:00]
I'm just temporary. I've got an iron-on number on my back. But I'm a big fan of the governor model. I think that that really plays well in to being an executive.
COASTON: It's interesting though, and I don't mean to put cold water in anyone, but I do think that something that's fascinating to me is that we have Governor Shapiro and Governor Whitmer, both of whom, they're Republican challengers, were the craziest people alive. In Pennsylvania, Governor Shapiro beat Doug Mastriano, who was very weird. A Christian nationalist who had lots of anti-Semitic views on numerous things.
And then you have in Michigan the same thing, where you're going against kind of a weirdo GOP as the Michigan GOP falls apart. So, I think that a fascinating challenge is that we're not quite sure how strong nationally these regional governors are, and I think that that's something to think about.
PHILLIP: And governors, by the way, are not typically on the ticket as V.P.'s. That's not usually anything that has happened. It certainly hasn't happened in recent history.
CARLSON: Well, nothing's normal, this election.
PHILLIP: Well, yeah.
DUNCAN: Typically, V.P.'s aren't at the head of the ticket either.
PHILLIP: That's true, too.
PINION: Historically, the easiest way to make sure you don't become president is to be a sitting V.P., and so again, this is an election that wild and crazy.
PHILLIP: We are in uncharted territory, everyone. All right. Stand by for us. Coming up next, the panel gives us their nightcaps. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:45]
PHILLIP: And we're back, and it's time for the "NewsNightcap". You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Joe, you're up first. PINION: All right, my hot take. Republicans need to focus on the
issues. Every time somebody gets on T.V. or Twitter and calls Kamala Harris the DEI candidate, you've got five Black women calling up their friends, telling them to vote, and a new liberal decides that they're actually not going to stay home.
And so, that is the hot take. It's probably a cold take. Republicans are not necessarily accustomed to running against a Black woman, because it's never really happened on this scale. In the end, focus on the border, focus on the economy, focus on the world torn asunder on Joe Biden's watch, and Kamala Harris can't say, I was there, but they didn't let me do the job.
PHILLIP: I think we can all agree with that. Elie?
MYSTAL: Oh, having just had this wonderful V.P. conversation as a liberal, I know the most important cabinet position is the attorney general. And after sitting through four years of Merrick Garland as attorney general, and Bill Barr before that, and the toilet bowl salesman before that, and Jeff Sessions before that, I think we need a real, competent, strong, exciting attorney general pick.
If Harris should win the presidency. I would put my -- I would throw my cap over the wall for my New York homegirl, Letitia James, to be USAG should Harris win. But there are lots of good candidates, and I am very excited to move on from the Merrick Garland era to a new one.
PHILLIP: That was like -- that was like one of those like DNC nominating speeches, but right here at the table. Jane?
PINION: And the walls came tumbling down.
COASTON: So, I'm aware that many people get excited about politics, but I am asking people, please be normal. Political fandom is weird. Making superhero images of either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump is weird. Politicians are supposed to do a job for you. They're like the offensive coordinator of your football team. You should scream at them until they do what you want.
They are the means by which we get policy done. They are not celebrities or awesome people that you need to like mold your personality into. Be normal. Get hobbies. Go outside. Don't follow politics like sports.
PHILLIP: I love it because it's the hottest of hot takes. Go ahead, Geoff.
DUNCAN: What do I do after that? I was one of those fortunate people that got 48 extra hours being on the road last week because of the CrowdStrike I.T. glitch. It got so bad, I ended up somewhere down the road in Charleston, South Carolina. I had to call my father-in-law at 4 o'clock in the morning and beg him to come pick me up and told him I take back everything bad I ever said about him.
My point is, we have had a lot of news outside of this I.T. glitch hit. We cannot take our eyes off of how important this was to us. How sobering it was that one line of bad code nearly shut the world down, at least shut my world down for 48 hours. We need to make sure that things are not too big to fail in the I.T world.
PHILLIP: Scary.
CARLSON: Something that wasn't shut down or failed was Abby Phillips because she was nominated as my hot take today for an Emmy for outstanding health or medical coverage for her documentary "Homebirth Journey: Saving Black Moms". I watched it.
It was very important to me because the mortality rate for Black women and having babies continues to rise. And I thought it was so thought- provoking to show that doing this at home can actually be a safer alternative and I know you did it yourself.
PHILLIP: I did, yeah.
CARLSON: And so, I honor you tonight.
PHILLIP: Thank you.
CARLSON: And I hope you win the Emmy.
PHILLIP: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. Oh, Best Panelist Award to Gretchen Carlson. Everyone, thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:58]
PHILLIP: This Sunday on "The Whole Story", I'll take a look at Kamala Harris' unlikely and groundbreaking path to being now a presidential candidate. Here is a preview where the second gentleman describes how they first connected.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOUG EMHOFF, SECOND GENTLEMAN OF THE UNITED STATES: I violated every rule of dating, I believe. Leave this long rambling voicemail at the end of the call and remember that scene in "Swingers".
UNKNOWN, "SWINGERS" MOVIE: And you should call me tomorrow or in two days, whatever. Anyway, my number --
EMHOFF: That was me leaving the voicemail and I thought I'd never hear from her, but then.
PHILLIP (voice-over): Harris had a break in her schedule and called him.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We ended up talking for like 45 minutes to an hour and just laughing the whole time.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PHILLIP: You can watch that episode of "The Whole Story" and a look at Joe Biden's legacy this Sunday starting at 8 P.M. Eastern time and Pacific, only right here on CNN. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live", it starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: While the courtroom reemerges in the 2024 campaign, tonight on "Laura Coates Live".
