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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Sept. 10 Debate in Doubt as Campaigns Battle Over Details; Ex- Democrats Endorse Trump, Claim Unity; RFK, Gabbard Have History of Pushing Conspiracies. "NewsNight" Discusses The Contrasts Of Democratic And Republican Platforms; Political Strategists From Both Parties Defend Their Respective Candidates. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 26, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, debate drama.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If there's a debate.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump turns a yes into a maybe, while the Harris camp --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not debate her?
TRUMP: We'll wait.
PHILLIP: -- calls Trump chicken.
Plus, change of tune.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to work to get him elected.
PHILLIP: RFK goes from calling Trump a buffoon to betting on him to unify the country.
Also, a new and startling look at how the Trump White House worked from a top general who lived through it.
Live at the table, Ashley Allison, Scott Jennings, Stuart Stevens and Katie Frost. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight, State of the Race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Good evening everyone. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's, as always, get right to what America is talking about, the debate stage, and whether or not Donald Trump will actually be on it. The Republican nominee has once again given you at home reason to doubt whether he's going to show up to work on September 10th. And here's what he's saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're thinking about it. We're thinking about it. They also want to change the rules. You know, the deal was we keep the same rules. Now, all of a sudden, they want to make a change in the rules because she can't answer questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Here we go again. We're back here at the table. Trump now calling into question whether he's going to be there and the Harris campaign, they're already trolling him. Just listen to this ad that they put out as a result of all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not debate her?
TRUMP: We'll wait, but because they already know everything. They say, oh Trump's, you know, not doing the debate. It's the same thing they say now. I mean, right now I say, why should I do a debate? I'm leading in the polls. And everybody knows her. Everybody knows me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He doesn't want to debate her, Scott.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, as the only bona fide chicken farmer at this table. That's why I came to you first, I am offended by this. He does want to debate her. He's going to debate her. In fact, he wanted to do like three debates, and she agreed to this one. And he agreed to the rules against Biden, and now she wants to change the rules, even though these were the rules they used against Biden.
PHILLIP: Shouldn't he be happy that the rules would be that he can say whatever he wants? Like, I mean, if he really wants to debate her, that would be what he would want?
JENNINGS: I don't know. They're going to debate. He needs to debate because he's going to have to hold her to account for her record as vice president, her positions when she ran for president, her record in the Senate, because no one else is going to help him. And the idea that they're calling him chicken when she won't answer a single question, a hard question from a journalist right now, is a little rich to me. But I think they'll do it, and I think they both have reason to need to show up and both have something to prove.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I think he's just getting a taste of his own medicine. For the last eight years or so, Donald Trump has mocked, baited, said nasty things, even most recently is this week. And the Harris campaign is just poking at it, poking the bear and seeing what Donald Trump will show up.
Will he debate? I mean, I know you feel confident about this. The American people deserve a debate, but I am not sure. Look, why not let the mic stay on? Do you think your candidate can remain disciplined enough? You know, the last debate definitely went in Trump's favor in the immediate. Joe Biden had a terrible performance, which is why now Kamala Harris is at the top of the ticket. I don't think he's going to have another hit like that. And so that's why he's hedging his bets right now.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, Harris -- look, she doesn't even really have to do anything here because Trump is the one who keeps kind of hemming and hawing about this, giving her and the upper hand. And to Scott's point, I mean, the storyline could be about how she hasn't done an interview. We're five days away from the end of the month. It's supposed to happen within those five days. It hasn't yet. But instead, Trump is putting on the table that he's, I don't know, scared, that he doesn't want to do it, that he only wants to do it under circumstances that are favorable to him.
KATIE FROST, FORMER AIDE, SENATOR TED CRUZ AND ROY MOORE CAMPAIGN: We know a lot of times it's just posturing, you know, we have different people, different campaigns, they're playing the expectations game, they're just trying to have an angle for what they want. I fully agree Scott here. We're going to see a debate. There's no question about that. The stakes are, of course, very high And the last time President Trump walked onto the debate stage, it was arguably the most consequential presidential debate we've seen, maybe even more so than Nixon versus Kennedy back in 1960.
[22:05:04]
So, I'm fully confident there will be a debate, and it's going to be must-see T.V.
STUART STEVENS, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, the funny thing about this debate about debate rules is, if you don't adhere to the rules, nothing happens. Nobody ever comes out and goes, wait, this thing is over now. You just broke the thing. So, you know, I mean, I've been through this a million times.
PHILLIP: Which usually, I mean, works in Trump's favor, because he kind of steamrolls through these rules and then it all just ends up with him talking more than everybody else.
STEVENS: You can prepare for any scenario. And Harris is going to be very prepared, she's going to be very calm, she's going to prosecute him. And it's going to be a very clear debate for her. I think when you go into debates, it's really important to have very specific goals. You want to accomplish, you know, maybe three things at most, maybe four. And that could be anything from prove that you're likable, to unveiling new policy, to showing that you're tough on foreign policy or something.
Harris is a very focused person. This will be a comfortable environment for her. So, I think they're having a ball over this.
PHILLIP: Yes, she wants to recreate all of these moments of Trump on the debate stage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look, it's just not true, and so please go to --
TRUMP: Oh, you didn't delete them?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Allow her to respond, please.
CLINTON: Personal emails, not official.
TRUMP: Over 33,000?
CLINTON: Not -- well, we turned over 35,000, so --
TRUMP: Oh, yes. What about the other 15,000?
TAPPER: Please allow her to respond. She didn't talk while you talked.
CLINTON: Yes, that's true. I didn't.
TRUMP: Because you have nothing to say.
Excuse me. I got rid of the individual mandate, which was --
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: That is not a comprehensive plan.
TRUMP: That is absolutely a big thing. That was the worst part of Obamacare. Chris, that was the worst part of Obamacare?
WALLACE: Let me ask my question.
TRUMP: Well, I'll ask Joe. The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare. I got rid of it. And we will protect people.
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The question is --
TRUMP: You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court justices, radical left --
BIDEN: Will you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe? Who's on your list?
BIDEN: This is so --
WALLACE: Gentlemen, I think we've ended this --
BIDEN: This is so unpresidential.
TRUMP: Pack the court.
WALLACE: No.
TRUMP: He's not going to give a list.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Look, he's got one mission at this thing.
PHILLIP: It's not that?
JENNINGS: Well, no. The first debate against Biden was a disaster. He actually got better in the second one. They didn't have the middle one. But the last one they did, he was somewhat better, but it was too late at that point. This one, he is got one mission. He cannot let her get away with running as something other than the incumbent. She is Joe Biden's vice president. The entire mission of this debate is to ask the American people a simple question. If you are mad about what is going on in this country and you're mad about inflation and you're mad about the border, how could you possibly keep the same administration in place that you think has broken?
Now, it's boring because you need to do that for 90 straight minutes, and sometimes he gets bored with the same thing for 90 straight minutes, but if he achieves that, if he achieves that, that's the mission, right? That's what he's got to do.
ALLISON: Here's the thing, I think that everyone is saying, oh, we want the vice president to do an interview, oh. There's a lot of demands on Kamala Harris right now in terms of policy, and I think she has laid out the policy. In the debate --
JENNINGS: Which?
ALLISON: In the debate -- okay, in the debate, Kamala Harris has the opportunity to draw the contrast. It's not like Donald Trump has rolled out a mild length of policy other than, we don't want this, we hate this, we don't like this, we want to take this back, we want to take this away from the American folks. He's not telling you how he's going to bring inflation down. He's not telling you if we had another global pandemic, how he would lead better. He's not saying why he doesn't have his former vice president on the stage in a couple of weeks because he charged the insurrection. Kamala Harris has a great opportunity to draw the contrast. And while so many people are making demands on her, she can say, what are the demands you have of him? And when they go toe to toe, I think the American people will align with her.
STEVENS: You know, I think the way Trump is going into this mentally is a disaster for him, and I think his campaign knows it. He's going to not -- he doesn't respect the vice president, and that's going to come across.
PHILLIP: Yes, he called her dumb several times today.
STEVENS: Yes. He has a problem with women. He has a real problem with black women in power. And this is going to come across. I think this is going to be a very bad night for Trump. I don't think it's going to be about policy or anything. I think it's just going to be about what vibe you get from these two people. PHILLIP: Yes, the demeanor, the --
STEVENS: And just you can't coach this guy. He's like an athlete who's uncoachable.
PHILLIP: Well, he said -- okay, I got to play this for you, Stuart, because this is what he told reporters today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm not spending a lot of time on it. I think my whole life I've been preparing for a debate. You know, you can go in and you can have all sorts of sessions. I watched Mitt Romney go in and he worked so hard. Four weeks he locked himself into a lock cabinet and then he developed lockjaw. He couldn't speak.
You have to be real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I'm just curious.
JENNINGS: Well, wait.
[22:10:00]
The first debate, we were good.
PHILLIP: I'm just curious about --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: They were good.
STEVENS: Scott and I were at those debates. We were actually been informed.
PHILLIP: Well, the lock jaw part was the part -- I was like, wait, what?
STEVENS: There's always this need to try to make sense of what Trump is saying, like it may be part of some strategy, otherwise he just kind of comes across as a blithering idiot, when the truth is he's just sort of a blithering idiot, and he says this stuff, it has no meaning, it has no focus to it. And he's an angry guy. He thought he had won.
And I've seen this. Scott, you've seen it too in campaigns. When a candidate thinks they've won and something happens and that gets taken away, that is a really rough, emotional moment. And it takes a lot of maturity to deal with that, if you can't.
PHILLIP: And he is living through that very publicly right now where he felt that weak. I mean, we were right on the set with each other, Scott. You felt that the campaign was locked up. JENNINGS: Oh, we were on our way to win. I mean, Republicans were going to have a landslide. Any Democrat will tell you that's what they were mentally preparing for. And so everybody believed that. He believed it. By the way, he's still also, I think, living through --
STEVENS: I don't agree with that. But, anyway --
JENNINGS: You don't think we were going to have a landslide against Biden?
STEVENS: No, I think that Trump --
JENNINGS: Now, why don't they still have him, Stuart?
STEVENS: Because he had a terrible debate and he's too old to be president. I mean, it's pretty clear. But, look, I think Trump has a ceiling. He's never broken 47 percent. He won with 46.2 percent. We lost with Romney when Romney got 47.2 percent. And he lost by 7 million votes. I just don't see where he's getting new customers.
ALLISON: Here's the thing about leaders, is that you have to be able to be nimble and adjust. He can't even adjust to a different opponent. He thought it was going to be Joe Biden. It's not Joe Biden. And he can't adjust to Kamala Harris. And we want him to have the nuclear codes. Like, well, either you're a leader or you're up to it or you're not. No. I mean, he is --
JENNINGS: I mean, you're acting like this is a common occurrence for parties to switch out their nominees in the summer. I mean, this is a totally unheard of, audacious thing the Democrats have done.
ALLISON: So was COVID. But you know what? You got to learn how to roll with the punches if you want to be the leader of the free world. If you can't handle a change of candidate, I surely don't want you handling my country.
STEVENS: What do they think of Georgia?
JENNINGS: I think we're winning. I think he's doing fine in Georgia. And I think people are still okay with his presidency versus what they're getting out of Biden, are they not?
FROST: Well, and that's the thing. It's a very unique opportunity voters have. Normally, when we have an election cycle, you have to look at what the candidate is saying and try to guess the impact their policies will have on your life, but now voters can go, okay, was my life better under President Trump when I could get $2 gas at the pump, or is it better now? And in Georgia, where I'm from, we're seeing inflation is sky high. It is really hurting people. Their everyday lives are being impacted in a negative way by the Biden-Harris administration. And that's what they're going to be voting on when they go to the polls.
JENNINGS: This is the argument he's got. This is what he's got to stick with. I mean, this is like, when I was in, we had this. When they're in, you had that. ALLISON: And then a global pandemic happened, I botched the handling of it for a year, I kept --
JENNINGS: How did he botch it?
ALLISON: Bleach in arms.
JENNINGS: Did he or did he not leave --
STEVENS: Scott, you're not going to defy --
JENNINGS: I'm asking.
STEVENS: They don't have to do this.
JENNINGS: Did he or did he not leave Joe Biden the vaccine, which Kamala Harris claims she wouldn't take as long as Donald Trump developed it.
ALLISON: No. He told us to put bleach in arms. He told us it wasn't real. He told us Fauci was a fraud. He told us not to wear a mask.
JENNINGS: That's just debatable now.
ALLISON: I mean, he told us if Donald Trump would have been the president longer, we would have probably had more than sadly a million people lose lives. Watch that.
PHILLIP: Don't you think -- I mean, I think this is pretty self- evident. Trump's handling of COVID absolutely hurt him in the 2020 election.
JENNINGS: Oh, I think that COVID upended him in the election. I think in retrospect, people are pretty unhappy about what we were told at the time and what we found out later.
PHILLIP: Well, not just COVID, but how he led in that moment, because COVID was a lot of things. And, you know, maybe people were upset with their Democratic governors or whatever, but Donald Trump, how he handled it specifically was one of the things that made people uneasy.
JENNINGS: I think it upended his campaign. I also think that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris didn't handle it very well. I mean, remember, more people died of COVID after they got in than when Trump was in. And he left them behind the medicine. He left them behind the medicine.
STEVENS: You can't really compare these two.
JENNINGS: Why?
STEVENS: Because --
JENNINGS: The American people are. They're doing it right now.
STEVENS: Because Trump was out there as somebody who just was an embarrassment to the country. He was somebody who denied that this was happening. There literally was a COVID playbook that the previous administration and pandemic playbook. He ignored it.
I mean, I think maybe there's some ways you can defend Trump, but the hills die on COVID.
ALLISON: Be honest that he had it. He went on the debate stage and debate it and potentially put everybody else in harm's way because he's selfish. He didn't even acknowledge he knew he had it. He didn't tell his team or maybe he's told his team. That's not what you want in a leader.
[22:15:00]
And I do think Americans --
FROST: But when was the last time we had a global pandemic was the Spanish flu pandemic in 1918 when Woodrow Wilson was president, so to give you an idea of how long ago it was. Also at the end of his presidency, Woodrow Wilson was in terrible health and wasn't able to actually govern. So, it was a long time ago. It's not like this is every president has to manage a pandemic.
ALLISON: You've got to be ready when it comes.
PHILLIP: You know, the politicization of COVID was one of the major, you know, downstream effects of how Trump led in that moment. And you could argue that the reason there were so many deaths after Trump left office was because you could almost predict the death toll based on whether you were in a red state or in a blue state, which is just sad.
JENNINGS: So, you're saying that Trump's responsible for everything he did and for the Biden administration?
PHILLIP: I'm just saying that making public health about politics was a mistake.
ALLISON: That's right.
PHILLIP: Everyone, stick around for us.
JENNINGS: I agree. Ask Aunt Randi Weingarten.
PHILLIP: Coming up next, is this what unity looks like? RFK and Tulsi Gabbard line up behind Donald Trump, papering over long histories of saying not so nice things about the Republican nominee.
Plus, a Trump insider tells all. H.R. McMaster has pulled back the curtain on what he saw inside of that Trump White House.
This is NewsNight, State of the Race.
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[22:20:00] PHILLIP: Today, another former Democrat endorsed a former Democrat. Tulsi Gabbard showed up on the stage with Donald Trump to lend him her support. But is that worth anything? And joining us in our fifth seat, CNN contributor Cari Champion.
This is interesting because RFK junior Tulsi Gabbard from as far as I can tell, this is like the convention of conspiracy theorists in all these different areas, but the Trump campaign seems convinced that they have come up with this rainbow coalition on the right, if you will.
STEVENS: They've come up with a coalition of people that you can't really understand like how they get through TSA. I mean, none of these people you'd want to sit next to on a plane. I mean, you were saying this about RFK Jr. I mean, this nut and sad, sad case. Endorsements really don't matter in politics, but this kind of thing I think reinforces the worst images of Trump, the conspiratorial stuff. It's just is not going to help them at all.
PHILLIP: Okay. So, I didn't -- it's not me that's saying that. This is Stephen Miller. This is what he says about the Trump coalition. Trump has built a new coalition that's bigger than the GOP, conservatives, independents, FDR and Kennedy Democrats, old school liberals, blue collar populists, anti-war activists, foreign policy realists, economic nationalists, everyone but the corrupt ruling class. Are all those people in your Republican Party?
JENNINGS: Well, they have built a a campaign of people who deeply, deeply, deeply distrust institutions, government and sort of the Washington elites. I mean, that is the ethos of this campaign. RFK fits into that. Tulsi Gabbard fits into that.
You know, I'm not sure how much endorsements matter. I will say this. Because his name is Kennedy, he will draw a crowd. I mean, you got to remember, Trump's ticket to victory --
STEVENS: That's the problem. And then he's going to speak.
JENNINGS: It depends on the crowd, doesn't it? I mean, his ticket to victory are these low propensity, male, working class male voters, the Joe Rogan audience. And, you know, sneer at them at your at your own peril, because if they get excited about RFK, or they think if he says Trump's okay, we're going to turn out and vote. That's how Trump changes the composition of the electorate through that kind of voter.
So, you know, you can make fun of them and they do say strange things, but there's a coalition of people that are into it.
PHILLIP: It's really a question of like, let's put aside, yes, the numbers are what they are, but just on the substance of it. I mean, for the kinds of things RFK Jr. has said, the kinds of things Tulsi Gabbard has said, here's a tweet from March 2022. There are 25 U.S.- funded biolabs in Ukraine, which if breached would release and spread deadly pathogens to the U.S. world. We must take action now.
This is -- I mean, there's nothing behind this stuff. STEVENS: I mean, Scott, did you ever think that, in the Republican Party we worked in, that you would have a candidate, supported by Putin, was helped to get elected by Putin, who now is like dining out on RFK Jr., who just gets up there and says all these Russian talking points? And now Susie Ebert, who is clearly -- I mean, you know, she's probably not a Russian agent, but she's probably a useful idiot at best. It's just -- it's really extraordinary, and it's very, very dangerous.
PHILLIP: Yes, go ahead.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. You know, it's interesting. I was watching Gabbard on I think maybe right after the Biden-Trump debate, and she was on Bill Maher. And Bill Maher asked her very specifically, okay, that's not the question I'm asking you. What is the problem with the party? And she kept saying that I can't give into a Harris ticket because we are so close -- this administration has it so close to a nuclear war where children's skin will be falling off. And he's like, I don't need you to describe all that. I need you to give me a real understanding of why you are actually saying you're endorsing Trump or you are for Trump. And she couldn't answer the question.
And I think it's really interesting, especially coming off the DNC, Scott, where you have Republicans endorsing Kamala Harris, but going up there and saying, look, I'm not a Democrat. I'm not an independent. I'm American. And these are the issues. We have a cult personality running our entire party, and we can't do that. I have to do the hard things.
And so I feel like what we're looking at in real time is that when you ask someone to describe what are the real issues, they're going to attack Kamala Harris, whether or not they think she knows about foreign policy, I understand that.
[22:25:03]
But Gabbard seems like she's being really petty. It also seems like she's looking for a position. She's looking for a job. And she's also, to me, if you ask her, square on square, what is your main issue, you can't keep telling me we're close to a nuclear war.
PHILLIP: Both of them seem scorned by the Democratic Party.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: You mentioned the whole thing about Putin. I mean, she was so furious about Hillary Clinton basically calling her a pawn. And RFK, Jr. similarly feels rejected by the Democratic Party. And both of them, to your point, Cari, I mean RFK was pretty explicit. He wants to have a role in a Trump White House if Trump is elected.
JENNINGS: What is so unusual about that? If people support campaigns, they want to work in the administration.
(CROSSTALKS) PHILLIP: People should understand that if that's the give and take, then people should just understand that.
JENNINGS: I mean, you don't think all these people writing all these checks to Kamala Harris haven't already written down their top three ambassadors yet? Come on. Come on.
ALLISON: Okay. But, listen, this is the thing about RFK. Yes, Gabbardwants a position, but homey was like, I'm openly complaining to who will answer my phone call. Kamala Harris was like, no, we don't need that over here. And Donald Trump said, sure, I'll take the call. That's what people -- when you talk about folks being upset with institutions and the compromising of integrity, that's what they're talking about. It shouldn't be a quid pro quo. Either stand for what you believe Donald Trump is.
But the thing about RFK and Trump is like if you actually put their policy positions side by side, they wouldn't agree on anything, particularly on climate.
STEVENS: One thing, they're both against vaccines, all medical vaccines. So, they're against the polio vaccine. You have candidates against that.
ALLISON: It's not because he believes that Donald Trump is a good leader. It's because he, RFK, wants to be the leader himself. And when his name I.D. wasn't enough to keep him above 20 percent, particularly with the flip of Biden and Harris, that's why he now has dropped out of the race, because the only way he can get power is making a deal with Trump.
PHILLIP: All right, everyone, hang tight for a little bit.
Coming up next, breaking tonight, 200 former GOP staffers are endorsing Kamala Harris, but should all the other former Trump officials follow suit?
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[22:30:00]
PHILLIP: Is speaking out enough? In a new op-ed, "The Bulwark's" Tim Miller argues that the former Trump administration officials, all of them who have criticized their former boss, they need to step forward and go a step further and endorse Kamala Harris for president. Miller highlights statements from Trump campaign secretaries and advisors, everything from calling Trump "dangerous" and "unfit" to "the most flawed person I've ever met".
He goes on to write, "On the one hand, you have a woman who just presented herself as a mainstream Democrat who plans to respect and uphold the fundamental American political traditions at home and abroad. On the other hand, you have a candidate who you have acknowledged is the most flawed person you have ever encountered, a danger to the country and an existential threat to our system of government. How in God's name do you justify silence in the face of that choice?"
Back with my panel. Now, you might disagree with their assessment of Trump but it's a fair point that if you -- if all of these people believe what they say, why won't they say something?
KATIE FROST, FORMER AIDE, SENATOR TED CRUZ AND ROY MOORE CAMPAIGN: Well, if they feel that strongly about President Trump, it also can speak to their lack of confidence in Vice President Harris. They're willing to say all these things about him but she has not given them enough reason to actually come out and --
PHILLIP: Is that what it says or does it say that they --
STUART STEVENS, FORMER REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: They're careerists. That's what it says.
PHILLIP: Because something's going to happen.
STEVENS: Yeah, I mean, look, I think that this -- this isn't a normal election. All this stuff, we talk about inflation, the economy, that's not what this race is going to be about. It's not what '22 is about.
This race is about one thing Donald Trump and what he's doing to America and that's going to be a referendum on Trump. And when you say these things, you have to come out and support Harris. It's a binary choice. One of these two people is going to be president. My old client Chris Christie, he has to endorse Harris.
PHILLIP: But will he? I mean these are all people who are waiting. I mean --
STEVENS: I don't understand intellectually or morally how you cannot.
PHILLIP: Chris Sununu in New Hampshire used to be all over the place making a moral case against Trump. He has endorsed him.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think Katie's point is the right one. Why would any Republican who believes in any of the old or new tenants of the Republican Party vote for Kamala Harris? She's going to do it. She's going to pack the court.
She -- remember, her voting record was as the most liberal senator, her platform for president was as liberal or to the left of Bernie Sanders. Why would any Republican -- how could they possibly reach the conclusion that by voting for this somehow returns -- returns us to the conservative way? It makes no sense.
STEVENS: I can answer that. The reason you would vote for it is because all the stuff that we used to say -- the character counts, the character is destiny, that you believe in the Constitution. That, if you really believe that and they weren't marketing slogans, there's only one candidate that supports that.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: And that's what Jeff Duncan was saying. I agree with that. That's what he was saying. Jeff Duncan was saying that. When he gave his speech, that's what he was saying. He was saying, guess what? I don't necessarily agree with the Democratic Party.
I am not a Democrat, but I do know that President Trump -- former President Trump does not believe in the rule of law. So, do I vote for someone who doesn't believe in the rule of law or do I vote for someone who doesn't want the same policy?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We can't -- we can't talk about packing the court.
JENNINGS: Why?
ALLISON: Your former boss, Mitch McConnell, literally stole a -- no, no.
JENNINGS: Come on.
ALLISON: Yes, come on. Let's go. Let's go for this ride.
[22:35:00]
JENNINGS: Come on.
ALLISON: So, Scalia dies in February.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
ALLISON: We wait months. Mitch McConnell refuses to put up the sitting president's nominee.
JENNINGS: So?
ALLISON: And then --
JENNINGS: So?
ALLISON: So, that hoping that a Republican would win.
JENNINGS: Yes.
ALLISON: And that they could get that appointment, right?
JENNINGS: Right.
ALLISON: So, RBG dies. We don't have to wait for the American people to speak. Because why? They want it to pack the court. Why? So that we could overturn Roe.
PHILLIP: The Senate confirmed the nominee a week before the election, which was actually --
STEVENS: Listen. Actually, the election already started because people were already voting.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
STEVENS: So, it was during an election. FROST: What? I kind of want to go back to the point, though. You're
asking. Why have they not endorsed her? A lot of these people we're talking about are former elected Republicans. And so, many of the positions they ran on and things they campaigned on, you mentioned Jeff Duncan, I'm from Georgia, he was my Lieutenant Governor. The things he ran on when he ran for Lieutenant Governor in 2018, some of them are in direct opposition, the platform, correct?
JENNINGS: Jeff said something in his speech that actually hit, and by the way, he's our colleague, and I'm not -- it's not a personal attack. But he said, he sort of inferred that if you don't vote for Harris, you're not a patriot.
STEVENS: I would agree with that.
JENNINGS: And I have to tell you how profoundly, poorly that's going to hit a lot of Republican ears. Look, there are plenty of Republican voters who are lukewarm on Trump. Maybe they wish he hadn't run again, whatever. But to be told that your choice is, your patriotism is dependent upon your choice just because you prefer a Republican government -- you prefer someone who doesn't? I thought that was a poor argument.
STEVENS: You prefer someone who didn't try to overthrow the government of the United States.
CHAMPION: The Republicans are saying you're not an American if you vote for Harris.
JENNINGS: I've never heard anyone say that.
CHAMPION: I've heard many of them say that.
ALLISON: People are making fun of us because we're weak women.
CHAMPION: That's insane.
ALLISON: Yes, people were literally questioning us because we wanted to wave our own flag at the Democratic National Convention --
CHAMPION: Oh, stop, stop --
ALLISON: -- talking about when did they start loving America from the day I was born. Here's the thing. He's not saying that, people, you're not a patriot if you vote for Donald Trump. He's just saying, this is my interpretation of it. He's saying, I love this country beyond anybody, any one person and somebody who tried to overthrow our election.
Somebody who didn't stop for hours because I know, I'm pretty sure we agree on this because we've talked about this even on air. When an insurrection was happening at the Capitol -- when you support somebody who has done that, that is not patriotic.
CHAMPION: Correct.
ALLISON: And then when you have that be your party's nominee, sometimes you got to call a state a state.
JENNINGS: Because that happened does not mean I or Katie or any other Republican has to give up on every single value that we've ever had, whether it has to do with taxes or the court or any other policy. You're asking Republicans to turn over the government to absolute radical liberals over one day and I'm not prepared to do it because I believe policy choices --
STEVENS: No, you listen, Scott. Listen.
JENNINGS: -- I believe they matter to the future of the country.
FROST: And one policy is are you endorsing -- if you endorse Kamala Harris.
CHAMPION: I'll tell you what you are endorsing if you endorse.
FROST: We still fully don't know -- are we going to get the 2019 Kamala Harris who came out of California and had all these liberal positions that she wanted to ban fracking, that she supported the Green New Deal. And now, we're hearing from advisors and mixed things.
Oh, maybe she doesn't. Maybe doesn't. Are we going to have 2019 Kamala Harris from California? Or are we going to have a new Kamala Harris who wants to win swing states and the positions better?
STEVENS: Either one is better than Donald Trump on any given day. If you believe, Scott, listen, listen.
PHILLIP: All right, let me let Stewart get his point.
STEVENS: I can remember being on the bus with you, with Romney. And this is something that really stuck with me. And one of the aides who worked for you had misspelled something in a press release. And you very, very nicely, you weren't mean, you said, this is someone running for the presidency of the United States to sit in the Oval Office. We have to be at that level and treat it with that respect.
How do you say that? And then you get Donald Trump, a sexual predator, a criminal, someone who we know is just a horrible human being who doesn't believe in what we believe in rule of law and how all this policy stuff? They're not going to remember what the tax rate was or what, you know, this is basically, it is a character test, Scott.
JENNINGS: It's more than that. It's more than what the tax rate is. Profound policy implications and decisions are coming from the next administration. I firmly believe that the Democrats win and if they somehow keep control of the Senate, which I don't think is likely, but is possible, they will eliminate the filibuster. And they will change this country in a way that we can never recover. That is important to me.
ALLISON: And what does that look like?
JENNINGS: Now, listen I don't begrudge your viewpoint, but you cannot begrudge a Republican for wondering, hey, maybe it's not a great idea for us to drive off the left side of the road so far we can never find our way back.
ALLISON: Can you finish that thought then?
CHAMPION: Yeah.
ALLISON: What does that look like? Does it look like Roe versus Wade?
CHAMPION: Right.
[22:40:00]
ALLISON: Does it look like children eating and not being hungry? Does it look like having -- but I'm serious. I really want to know the answer.
PHILLIP: Let me ask another version of that question. I mean earlier tonight H.R. McMaster, who used to work for Trump as the national security advisor, he was out. He's got a book out. But the consistent through line of him and pretty much everybody else who's had that job. is a concern that Donald Trump himself in the presidency was a national security risk. Those people worked for him and they believe that. Doesn't that give you pause?
JENNINGS: Well, he said he had some good moments and some bad. Look, I don't begrudge it.
UNKNOWN: He did.
JENNINGS: If you read his book and you listen to his interviews, it wasn't -- it was -- I think this book's being portrayed like it's some --
PHILLIP: Well, it's not everyone just like him. It's him.
STEVENS: Look, Scott, Scott. You know that Donald Trump is a disgrace.
JENNINGS: I don't begrudge anyone their opinion, their political opinion, that he wants to have that sets fine. Here's what I'm telling you. If you continue to go out and browbeat every Republican in this country and say they're not a patriot or they're a disgrace, they're voting for a disgrace or whatever, it is going to backfire on Harris.
STEVENS: But that's not what the Harris campaign is doing.
JENNINGS: What are you doing right now?
STEVENS: If you look at what Tim Walz is saying, he says these are my neighbors, these are my friends. He's not out there doing that. And they're attracting a lot of votes.
JENNINGS: I heard a lot of that at the convention. That's the implicit argument of the Democrats, is that you have to wave away all of your policy concerns over this issue. And there's Republicans that aren't going to want to be your back. ALLISON: What I heard the Vice President saying on that stage was
that she would be the president for all Americans. What I didn't hear is Donald Trump say that.
PHILLIP: All right, guys. Hold on. We got a lot more to discuss. Coming up next. Hitting the airwaves, we've got an exclusive preview of a new campaign ad focused on those strict abortion laws in red states. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: Abigail, right?
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: How do you know her?
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: Were you about eight weeks pregnant? So, you've been spotting recently. You've had any cramps or nausea?
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: That's personal.
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: You've been taking your prenatal vitamins?
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: Excuse me?
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: And your navigation is set to a women's health clinic in one of those abortion states.
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: We have the right to travel.
UNKNOWN, LINCOLN PROJECT POLITICAL AD: Not anymore. You, Sir, are under arrest for crossing state lines to obtain an abortion for a minor under your care. And you, young lady, well, you're under arrest for evading motherhood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: All right, that was a new Lincoln Project political ad that rolls out tomorrow on both digital and T.V. platforms. Back with my panel. Scott, I'll just say this about the ad. I mean, it's an example of how this issue is going to be presented to voters.
JENNINGS: Well, I'm glad to see we have very serious people putting out very serious advertising. I mean, look, Bowie, you make this?
STEVENS: I didn't make it, but I'm with the Lincoln Project and I think it's going to be a very effective ad.
JENNINGS: So, when you watch these --
STEVENS: Yeah, the problem with the unimaginable is it's difficult to imagine. And what you have here are these laws that are being passed. This actually has happened. I mean they did criminalize someone going out of state in Ohio.
And look, when you get these states that have banned abortion, you know they are going to track all this. When you make something a criminal, you're a woman and you're using an app to track periods, that could become evidence against you in a trial. That is the world here. And one thing about it is we only banned abortions in states like Mississippi for poor people.
Because everybody I grew up with in Mississippi who had money and something -- they wanted to get an abortion, they would get an abortion. And that is still going to happen. And it is absolutely more impactful on those lower economic strata. And this is what has happened.
And the idea that we can just sort of say, well, you know, it's just policy, something that people thought was a constitutional right for almost two generations has been taken away. And I think it is about liberty, and it is about the heavy hand of government.
PHILLIP: Well, okay, to this point, I mean, obviously, the Trump campaign, they're already starting to try to maneuver around this reality on abortion. Here's J.D. Vance talking about what Trump would do when it comes to a national abortion ban.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN WELKER, "MEET THE PRESS WITH KRISTEN WELKER" HOST: If such a piece of legislation landed on Donald Trump's desk, would he veto it?
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think it'd be very clear he would not support it. I mean --
WELKER: But will he veto it?
VANCE: --he said that explicitly. Yeah. I mean, if you're not supporting it as the President of the United States, you fundamentally have to veto it.
WELKER: So, he would veto a federal abortion ban.
VANCE: I think he would. He said that explicitly that he would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He's already, by the way, getting criticized by the right for saying that.
FROST: I mean, I was at the RNC and there was some discussion about the platform. There were some changes made in that and just what language were we going to use and what was going to be the Republican Party's approach on this issue. And it's obvious, I mean, I have to say watching that ad, it felt like fan fiction, like guys, you know, very heightened dramatization, to say the least. But also, this is the only issue that Harris and the Democratic Party
really have that they think they can run on every single other issue. They're absolutely going to get destroyed on it, whether it's the economy, immigration, foreign policy. The latest polling asked people, do you believe our country's going in on the right track or the wrong track? Sixty-seven percent say wrong track, 27 percent say right track.
PHILLIP: You know what's interesting, just to your point about what Republicans think Harris is vulnerable on. They are spending $74 million over the last 30 days on immigration ads attacking her.
[22:50:00]
That's three times what they're spending on the economy. I thought the economy --
CHAMPION: -- would be the big issue.
PHILLIP: -- would be the biggest --
STEVENS: They're talking to their own voters. You know, it's sort of a manifestation of Trump's world. And you saw it in McMaster's book, you know, this competition to flatter Trump. And Trump wants this race to be about immigration. So, therefore, if you're working for him, you make ads about immigration. You spend all this money. You're right, you're right --
FROST: I'm going to respectfully disagree with that point for one moment here though, because look at what the Harris campaign is also putting out ads about immigration. Using images of the wall, which her V.P. nominee, Governor Walz, says, they don't work, but now apparently we want to use those images in our ads. So, there is definitely a pivot on immigration.
STEVENS: We have this extraordinary moment where conservative elements in the United States Congress came together to do a bipartisan bill that really would have secured the border more than it's ever been secured. And Trump said don't pass it. This has never happened before.
JENNINGS: A bill has never not passed the Congress ever? Come on.
STEVENS: No, that a presidential candidate went out.
ALLISON: I just want to go back to the fan fiction comment. I think if you talk to women in Idaho or in any of the 30 states that actually now have abortion bans, particularly Texas, it doesn't feel like fan fiction. It doesn't feel like they don't have the government being overly intrusive. And they don't feel like that they don't have bodily autonomy to make decisions.
And it's just the beginning because we just -- and I know, I know that the point that J.D. Vance was trying to make about Donald Trump vetoing abortion bill. Well, that's nice to say now, but the week after -- CHAMPION: But to your point of fan fiction, he said this, and I think it's great. It's hard to imagine the unimaginable. And I think both parties are doing that. But if you want to talk about fan fiction, listen to Trump at any time talk without anybody fact-checking and him making up anything and you're literally weaponizing fear at all times. I
JENNINGS: It is fan fiction because no bill banning abortion can or will pass the United States Senate.
CHAMPION: It doesn't mean you don't want it to happen.
JENNINGS: But the question is, well, would he veto this if it lands -- this is completely fantastical. But you made a passionate case for abortion. And Donald Trump has the exact same position as Ronald Reagan. I'm pro-life. I believe in the three exceptions, rape, incest, and life with a mother.
And, oh, by the way, I am the strongest support in the Republican Party for IVF. It is no different than Reagan and you -- on that for your entire career. And now you're offended by it and I don't understand.
PHILLIP: Stuart, you've got the last word here.
STEVENS: Because it is the heavy hand of government. It is stuff happening that we never thought would happen. And these states that have banned abortion completely, what is forcing women to do? Sixty- four thousand women have become pregnant by rapists since Dobbs. Sixty-four thousand.
JENNINGS: And Trump believes in the exceptions for it.
ALLISON: Now.
PHILLIP: All right, my friends, everyone stay with me. Your night caps are coming up next.
CHAMPION: He's like, get on your side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:40]
PHILLIP: And we are back, and it is time for the "NewsNightcap". You each have 60 seconds -- 30 seconds, not 60 seconds to say your piece. Stuart, you're first.
STEVENS: There's been a lot of talk, it's sort of a universal truth, that this election is going to be close. I have a different opinion. I don't think this election is going to be close. I think it'll be close till about October 20th.
And then I think it's going to be like Carter versus Reagan, that the bottom is going to start to drop out for Trump. He's not attracting new voters and he has a limit of 47 percent. You can't blow him over that with dynamite. And I think this is going to be a race that Democrats are going to win by more than Biden.
PHILLIP: That's a bona fide hot take right there. Katie. Go ahead.
FROST: My hot take is that Vice President Harris' message is, focus on what I'm going to do on day one as president and completely ignore what I've done for the last 1314 days as vice president. She's the border czar, crossings are an all-time high. She's the president of the National Space Council -- we have two astronauts stranded in space.
She was the last person in the room. Hey, she was the last person in the room on the Afghan withdrawal. And now we have 13 Americans are dead. Afghan women are no longer allowed to speak in public under the Taliban rule. That is not a record you can run on. It's a record you have to run away from.
PHILLIP: All right.
CHAMPION: All right. Well, mine is looking at the intersection of sports, politics and culture and women more specifically. Women have decided that they will take no more. These entities are saying you have overplayed your hand, you've taken away our rights and we will systematically come back and say, not on my watch.
And I look at president, excuse me, vice-president Harris as she attempts to win this race, which looks very good for her. And I look at women athletics, more specifically the WNBA. There's a resurgence of sports and we're getting rid of these archaic archetypes that filter the way we view women in every aspect of the world. And we're saying, not on my watch, not today.
PHILLIP: Snaps to that. Go ahead, Ashley.
ALLISON: Don't underestimate joy. It might not be a strategy, but it is a discipline. Joy is the backbone of so many movements in our history for liberation, for freedom, for opportunity, for possibility. People deserve joy. People deserve the opportunity to feel free and happy. And I think it will actually help the vice president.
PHILLIP: All right, Scott.
JENNINGS: Thousands of college students are going back to their campuses and I want to give a shout out to the Chancellor of Vanderbilt University, Daniel Diermeier, who showed up and told all the new students, here's all the things we're not going to tolerate at Vanderbilt.
[23:00:05]
We will not divest from Israel. We will not have provocative speakers and we are not going to have support or condemnation of Israelis. So, he took a strong hand at Vanderbilt to say, no more of this nonsense and every university president in the country ought to look to Vanderbilt for an example this fall.
PHILLIP: That is very interesting. No provocative speakers. Tall order there. Everyone, thank you very much for being here. And thank you for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
