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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
MAGA Candidate's Disturbing Remarks on Porn Site Unearthed; MAGA Descends onto Springfield Despite Local Pleas. Oprah Winfrey Hosts An Event Starred By V.P. Kamala Harris Tackling Abortion Ban Issue; V.P. Kamala Harris Says She Is In Favor of Assault Weapons Bans, Universal Background Checks and Red Flag Laws. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 19, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, a swing state scandal raided NC-17. A Trump ally running for governor called himself a black Nazi on a porn site and fantasized about slavery and peeping.
LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON (R-NC), GUBERNATORIAL NOMINEE: The things that people can do with the internet now is incredible.
PHILLIP: Could he cost Trump a key state in November?
Plus, as MAGA descends on Springfield despite pleas, it turns out the missing cat that started the conspiracy was not eaten by a Haitian immigrant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was in her basement, Miss Sassy.
PHILLIP: Also --
OPRAH WINFREY, T.V. HOST: I know he is the one. Please welcome Barack Obama.
PHILLIP: -- she helped elevate one candidate to the White House. Now --
WINFREY: Please welcome Kamala Harris.
PHILLIP: --Oprah is trying to run it back.
And is J.D. Vance running a shadow campaign? Why he keeps stepping in front of his running mate?
Live at the table, S.E. Cupp, Shermichael Singleton, Leigh McGowan, Ryan Girdusky and Van Lathan. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about, apparently, porn, politics and a black Nazi. There is an explosive report tonight from CNN's KFILE that could very well impact this election. It is about the Republican candidate for North Carolina's governor race, Mark Robinson. He is the man that Donald Trump once called Martin Luther King Jr. on steroids.
But now we are learning that he posted disturbing comments on a porn site years before entering politics. Going by the name Mini Soldier, he called himself a black Nazi. He said he wanted slavery to return. He said, quote, buy a few himself -- he would by a few himself, and he called himself a perv. He said he liked trans sex and attacked Martin Luther King Jr., and that is just a sampling.
Now, this comes as early voting in the state has already begun and on the last day, actually, that a candidate can drop out of the race. But Robinson has refused to do so. And tonight, he is denying this whole thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBINSON: This is not us. These are not our words, and this is not anything that is characteristic of me.
We are not getting out of this race. There are people who are counting on us to win this race. It's just like Clarence Thomas said years ago, this is a high tech lynching.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I don't know who us is, but the KFILE has a lot of receipts on this one, and a long trail, including many things that were not included because they were so graphic. He's saying that this is all A.I. I mean, that cannot stand, I assume, right?
RYAN GIRDUSKY, FOUNDER, 1776 PROJECT PAC: They were comments from a long time ago. I think that if you're -- look, you know, listen, he has won up in the lead since May. That was the last time he was polling in the lead. He's down by double digits into this lead. So there is also an incentive by a lot of people to get him out because he's polling so badly. And the state's also in line for the legislature for a number of congressional districts.
I think if it was me, get out of the race, protect the state legislature. At the same exact time, you should --
PHILLIP: Protect the state --
(CROSSTALKS)
LEIGH MCGOWAN, SOCIAL MEDIA AND CONTENT CREATOR, POLITICSGIRL: That's adorable.
PHILLIP: One of the most unbelievable parts of all of this is that he is the sitting lieutenant governor of the state. He's actually elected already. And it's not as if this is sort of like -- GIRDUSKY: First black lieutenant governor in state history.
PHILLIP: Yes. But it's not as if this is like the extent of it. I mean, even before, he's said so many things. Once a woman is pregnant, it's not her body anymore. He talks about transgenderism, homosexuality. He's talked -- he's denigrated Martin Luther King repeatedly. I mean, this has been who he is.
MCGOWAN: Yes, he's called the LGBTQ filth, right? He says that women would be better off without the vote. He said some people need the killing. Like the thing is that we're at the point now where we're like, why this time? Like we already knew who he was. This is not a surprise of who he was. He's already been elected. We've already put him into power. The presidential candidate has endorsed him.
[22:05:00]
So, why are we upset about it now? I don't think he should get out of the race. I think this is who he is.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He should definitely get out of the race.
MCOGWAN: Well, if you're a Republican, he should get out of the race.
SINGLETON: He's a liability.
PHILLIP: We have we have less than two hours.
MCGOWAN: There we go.
SINGLETON: Republicans had an alternative candidate, a former congressman and pastor, Mark Walker. Good guy, traditional conservative, family man, would have ran a far more competitive race, probably would win this seat. I think that Robinson's probably going to lose. And it's unnecessary to lose. He's probably going to impact, to your point, Ryan, a slew of other Republican candidates down ballot.
And then also the state appears to be somewhat more competitive, because Harris is spending more time there to get the Trump campaign to spend more money there compared to spending like Pennsylvania. That's a problem?
GIRDUSKY: Well, I will say this, though, in 2022, when Cunningham was having his problems, the Democratic U.S. Senate candidate, who was philandering and had a mistress and all the rest of it, Democrats won down ballot House seats even though they lost the U.S. Senate seat by a decent margin. So, it's not necessarily going to reflect that voters are smart enough. And it was also running for a state election versus a federal election. Voters do split the same. This is why Kentucky --
SINGLETON: But it would be great if we could win together.
VAN LATHAN, PODCAST CO-HOST, HIGHER LEARNING: Can I say something here? Like, first of all, you didn't even read the best stuff, Mark is lying.
PHILLIP: From his --
LATHAN: Nasty dog right there. Mark is a wild boy. Like I had so much fun reading all of this stuff that he put in nudeafrica.com, brought back memories. But, look, so like I honestly think that there's something bigger here, there's something bigger to talk about. The unseriousness of Mark Robinson as a political figure in a very serious time in American political discourse has to be discussed. Like nothing, to your point, that you read surprised you because he has been sort of this caricature of the MAGA movement for a very long time, and he's someone who we've been told to take seriously. He's someone who's -- they've said this guy represents these ideals and these people.
And so when you see all of this grotesque stuff, you start to ask the question, why would someone like that with these type of views get to that lofty perch in the first place?
MCGOWAN: I agree, because you're saying you had a much better candidate and you didn't put him out, because you've lowered the bar so much in the Republican Party and what your party should be. You've lowered it and you've lowered it and you've lowered it, that now you have the low lifes left. That's who's there.
PHILLIP: Can I suggest another reason why? Let's play all the times that Trump has cozied up to Mark Robinson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's been an unbelievable lieutenant governor, Mark Robinson.
This is Martin Luther King on steroids.
I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two.
Mark Robinson, he's out there, he's fighting, he's a great one.
I want to thank a very good man and he's in there fighting, he's fighting and we know he's a fighter, the next governor of North Carolina, Mark Robinson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Once Republicans elected. Donald Trump, the sort of pearl clutching over things, like porn, infidelity, threats of violence, I mean, Trump -- Republican Party already said that was all fine for Trump. And so the fact that he is just trafficking in the same thing, he feels like he has complete immunity, and he does. The Republican Party has let people, he's not the first, he's not the last, get away with this stuff.
The problem is not just for down ballot, it's up ballot. So, Democrats haven't won North Carolina since 2008. As you know, they want it so bad, they can taste it. And what they are hoping is that this gubernatorial race has an up ballot effect. And with stuff like this, over and over and over again, I think they'll get their wish. And, of course, he's not going to drop out, because with Trump and the right, Trump means never having to say, I'm sorry.
PHILLIP: Yes.
SINGLETON: But he doesn't have to say I'm sorry. He just needs to get out of the damn race. He doesn't have to apologize. He just needs to get out of the race. That's it. Just get out of the race.
(CROSSTALKS)
MCGOWAN: Where you have created a party that doubles down, and doubles down.
LATHAN: He's an elected official that has shown a lot of affinity for Nazis. He should say that he's sorry. See, that's the thing, like he's an elected official that has power in his state that has shown that's cozied up to Nazis, say he wanted to bring slavery back. There should be shame.
MCGOWAN: Has Trump apologized?
LATHAN: I'm just saying like that's part of what we're talking about.
SINGLETON: From an emotional perspective, but I'm a strategist. I just would like to win that. That's part of the job. This guy's not going to help Republicans to win that seat.
CUPP: That is the point. I don't see an evidence Republicans wanting to, starting with Trump. I mean, the stuff he is doing is repelling the very voters he will need. So, I don't think winning anymore is the roadmap.
GIRDUSKY: Trump is polling the best he's ever polled his entire political career at this moment.
SINGLETON: I take that point. But Trump is, to his point -- okay, sure.
[22:10:01]
PHILLIP: Ryan, what you were talking about is his favorability rating.
GIRDUSKY: No, his polling. New York Times/Siena poll yesterday, a tied poll, nationally.
PHILLIP: In comparison to other --
CUPP: Do you know there are seven swing states where this election will be decided? But it's not a national election with seven swing states.
PHILLIP: Here's the issue about North Carolina. North Carolina is in play.
GIRDUSKY: Yes.
PHILLIP: It is actually in play. And this is actually one of the reasons.
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: Well, I don't know if I would agree with it being in play. It's more competitive. And I will give the vice president some credit of making the state more competitive. I don't know if the goal is to necessarily win the state.
PHILLIP: What's the difference between more competitive and in play? I mean, that is a very good definition (ph).
SINGLETON: Well, let me, I'm going to get to the point. It's more competitive, and I think a part of the Democratic strategy is to force the Trump campaign to spend more resources there versus in a state like Pennsylvania, which is a must-win for both of those candidates, if they want to get to 270. That's what I think the strategy is.
GIRDUSKY: Right. And also, I would sit there and say early voting, it is much better for Republicans, at every swing state, mind you, for early voting, for early mail-in requests, Republicans are doing far better than in 2020, percentage-wise.
PHILLIP: Trump could also say to Mark Robinson, get out of the race, and guess what? That is not happening either. His campaign, according to our reporting, there's no pressure, according to our reporting, about the Trump campaign pushing him.
GIRDUSKY: You did pull the vice president off of an event.
MCGOWAN: But if I make a point to --
PHILLIP: Hold on one second. So, you're saying --
GIRDUSKY: Did he not pull -- he pulled J.D. Vance from them.
PHILLIP: Did Trump say that Mark Robinson should get off the ballot?
GIRDUSKY: The campaign said -- I don't know whether they had a private conversation or not. I have no clue. But they did pull the vice president off of an event with him.
PHILLIP: That is not the same thing as Trump saying, which he very well could say --
GIRDUSKY: That's not a full fledge endorsement either. And --
PHILLIP: Did you hear all the clips? Those were like within the last month.
GIRDUSKY: That was before.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Wait a second. That was before the Nude Africa porn site, but it was after the report that he frequented porn locations in South Carolina. It was after all those other wild statements. It was after the stuff that he said about Martin Luther King.
GIRDUSKY: I get that.
PHILLIP: It was after the stuff that he said about Nazis. I mean, it was after all of that.
GIRDUSKY: But they are --
SINGLETON: I'm not excusing the veracity of Mark Robinson's claims. I've clearly stated that I would have preferred someone else. My point is the fact that, to Ryan's point, that Trump is appearing to distance himself from the guy. Whether or not Trump comes out and says, look, you need to get out of the race, I have no clue. But I know there are a whole lot of Republicans in North Carolina that are saying, we want to win this, and he's probably not the best person to help us win.
LATHAN: Would you want somebody else because you want to win, or because you're uncomfortable with a Nazi in your party?
SINGLETON: I would want someone else who represents conservative values. I don't think that's Mark Robinson.
MCGOWAN: He already said he wants him out because he wouldn't win. And that's the point I wanted to speak to. And you said people should feel ashamed. And I have to say, I'm not a strategist, I'm not a journalist, and I would say I represent more of the American people and how we really think. And like we should feel bad if we say we're Nazis. We should feel bad if we say we like to watch 14-year-old girls in the shower. We should feel bad if we say people should be killed. We should feel bad if we say women shouldn't have the vote.
How did your party, from a strategy position, allow itself to get to a point where it doesn't matter? There's no consequences.
(CROSSTALKS)
GIRDUSKY: But there's no consequence for Bill Clinton when he was credibly accused of rape several times. And, in fact, female groups endorsed him and doubled down on it. There was no consequence for Keith Ellison when he was accused twice of domestic abuse before he ran for attorney general and Tim Walz defended him.
There is multiple cases of Democrats sitting there and doing something bad, and the party stands by them. That happens a lot.
PHILLIP: So, you're saying that you're going to hold --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: And that's across the board, right? You can't just speak to -- PHILLIP: Hang on a second, hang on a second. We have one conversation at the table, not several side conversations. Go ahead.
GIRDUSKY: What was the question? Sorry.
PHILLIP: You are holding your own party to the same standard that you say is wrong that the Democrats held there.
GIRDUSKY: I said right in the get-go He should drop out. I said it right when I first walked in, I said he should drop out. That is the truth. I do feel that way how. And not just because of the porn stuff, there are many, many, many things he has said over time that I am very uncomfortable with. None of us --
CUPP: But let's not pretend it's moral courage to pull the V.P. from an event hours after all of this stuff came out when you could have simply said, this is not my guy, this doesn't represent us, and he can't win. I mean, there's no moral courage to do any of that. We're talking about that --
(CROSSTALKS)
CUPP: That world is gone. It's gone.
SINGLETON: Right. We should certainly get back to it.
PHILLIP: We're going to leave it there for now. Everyone hang tight. We've got a lot more to discuss.
So, hold on to your hats. More breaking news tonight as MAGA is starting to swarm the town of Springfield, Ohio. That's despite the origin of their conspiracy completely falling apart.
Plus, Oprah and Kamala Harris sat down for an event tonight in Michigan and emotions were very high tonight. See what happened.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Donald Trump's MAGA allies descended onto Springfield tonight despite pleas from local officials not to come. The Ohio mayor has used his emergency powers to deal with the bomb threats after these baseless conspiracy theories about Haitian migrants eating pets were pushed by Trump and his running mate, J.D. Vance.
Now that Trump says that he'll visit the town, the mayor says that they are struggling to handle this whole circus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ROB RUE (R-SPRINGFIELD, OH): This is going to tax our resources if either candidate was to come to our community. I believe Mr. Trump has said multiple times, just even as recently as last night, that he was going to visit our town in the next two weeks.
[22:20:02]
And it would be a strain on our resources if that would happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: These people have been through enough, and let me tell you the reason they've been through all of this. The Vance campaign pointed The Wall Street Journal to a missing cat. The Wall Street Journal then went to Anna Kilgore's house on Tuesday, and she said that her cat, Miss Sassy, who went missing in late August, had actually returned a few days later found safe in her basement, not eaten at all by anyone.
CUPP: And then this woman did the right thing She took her daughter and a translation app over to her Haitian neighbors home and apologized for what she had done, something we will not see from Trump and Vance. But these two guys have wreaked such havoc on this community, they should, of course, not go, but they don't care. They shouldn't go for political reasons. They will get a terrible news cycle out of this.
The more we're talking about it, the worse it is for those swing state suburban voters, mainly women, who are really repulsed by this kind of stuff. But they also just shouldn't go because it's such bad form. It's just such bad manners. So, of course, they'll go. They'll go.
PHILLIP: I mean, to your point about, you know, going there, so, of course, Vivek Ramaswamy went there tonight and had a town hall. But just to give you a taste of what the town is saying back to him about what this all has done to them, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since this story leaked, and this is something that everyone needs to hear, the hateful language in this community has spiked. It's really, really bad. I'm half black, I'm half Hungarian, I'm half black, half white, whatever you want to say. I've become a target of the hate. I can probably count on my hand, both hands, how many times a racial slur has been said my whole life? I've been called the N word twice this week by just people who group me. It happens. Even though my skin may be lighter, I think people just group us together. There's horror stories of people who are darker skin that have been chased down by people who are white saying, get out of this country, friends of mine, friends of friends and say, get out of here, you're Haitian. We don't want you here, even with the six-month-old baby at a grocery store.
So, regardless, I find it shameful and I find it inappropriate, whether I'm Haitian or American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He's lived in Springfield his whole life.
GIRDUSKY: Yes. But there's also, I mean, a lot of people who live in Springfield who do want them to come. And the response was -- PHILLIP: Who do want who to come? Trump and Vance?
GIRDUSKY: Yes. I mean, Trump, Vance is the senator who won Springfield in the election.
PHILLIP: But, I mean, can you respond to what he just said there? You want to claim that this is broadly about immigration. He is saying this is about hate. And he is a victim of hate that was ginned up by a lie, a bald faced lie.
GIRDUSKY: Well, the police report wasn't a lie. The accusation was, and it manifested. There was a lot of people on social media who were claiming --
PHILLIP: The police report and the accusation, by the way, first of all, we don't know if they're the same thing, but it also was investigated and they found no evidence.
CUPP: It's a lie.
PHILLIP: It's a lie.
LATHAN: All due respect, we don't have to, we don't have to sanitize it. No, seriously, though, because the reality is there are black and brown people in that community right now who are less safe because of something that is untrue. I know everybody's playing for their sides. There's a red gang. There's a -- we don't have to sanitize it. We don't have to make it seem like it's okay.
What we can say, that we can say that it's -- that we can call upon the former president and his running mate to say that this stuff didn't happen. And they can try to repair that community through words, rhetoric and action. But if we give them a soft bed to land on by talking about why that, in any way, represents any type of sphere of reality, then we're codifying it. We're saying that it's okay to make up lies about a whole segment of the population and make them unsafe.
I get that there are political differences, but we have to at least be able to agree that we don't want to do that.
GIRDUSKY: So, Senator Vance represents the city in the Senate. He won the city in his election. We don't know what he would say, and he has every right to be there, and as does Trump. And I think that back in 2016, there was a moment where there was a ravaged area of working class part of Louisiana, and Trump was the only candidate to go to it. Trump is the only candidate to go to parts of Ohio that dealt with the railroad issue. For working class people, Trump is their candidate and Trump will probably be their candidate.
Now, can he do better with his rhetoric? Absolutely. But the reason that city is suffering, as far as --
MCGOWAN: Can he do better with his rhetoric, like can he not lie about --
GIRDUSKY: The reason that city is suffering is because there are 15,000 Haitians because of Biden and Harris' policy.
MCGOWAN: There are 60,000 people in that town and they've had 33 bomb threats in a week.
GIRDUSKY: From overseas.
MCGOWAN: That's bananas.
GIRDUSKY: From overseas.
LATHAN: You're politicking from overseas.
MCGOWAN: That's bananas, man. He put a target on that town to make a point about immigration in general. He put a target on the people in that town to make a point about immigration in general, to make Haitians into eaters of dogs and cats. That woman, who is a well known Trump supporter, who's worn Trump shirts, who's very vocal about it, who lost Ms. Sassy.
[22:25:04]
You know, at some point you have to check your sources, and apparently you have to check your basement, because that's where this cat was.
GIRDUSKY: So, the number of Haitians in Springfield who've gone on Medicaid went from under 300 to over 8,000 in 22 months.
MCGOWAN: Are you still allowed to lie?
So, the reason that the --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on, Ryan, hold on just one second. First of all, that has nothing to do with the lie about cats and dogs, first of all. Second of all, the immigrants in Springfield, many of them are in this country legally, many of them are not even refugees, not even on TPS. Some of them are green card holders. There was someone that CNN spoke with just today, a business owner who has a green card, who is considering moving his business out of Springfield because he is Haitian. And he's experienced so much hate.
You cannot change the subject from what started this, which was a lie.
GIRDUSKY: The subject was the fact, Listen, I agree with you. I agree with you on that.
PHILLIP: I'm going to stop you again, because I have one more thing.
GIRDUSKY: I just said I agree with you, but --
PHILLIP: I have one more thing I want to play, because this is another part of the story that we don't hear a lot about. Back in August, guess who started talking about the way that this town was being overrun by Haitian immigrants. Well, white supremacist groups. Watch this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a literal Nazi, he marched with Swastikas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, I would like to dispel them. I've come to bring a word of warning. Stop what you're doing before it's too late. Crime and savagery will only increase with every Haitian you bring in. And with it, public frustration and anger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sound threatening to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the comments today --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could ask the police to go ahead and --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just sound threatening if you go ahead and just peacefully be removed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was August 27th at a Springfield town meeting. That woman in the video correctly says a literal Nazi showed up in their town to push these conspiracies and lies.
SINGLETON: Yes, look, I don't think this is helpful politically. We've talked a whole lot, S.E. mentioned this, about suburban voters, swing voters that Donald Trump is absolutely going to need if he wants to win this thing. I think a part of a lot of voters concerned with the former president, even if they may say, we think he'll do better on the economy, we think he's stronger on foreign policy, or we think he's stronger on immigration. It's the vitriol, it's the rhetoric, it's the nature of the rhetoric, it's the nature of his overall critique that turns people off.
Now, with that said, folks are here legally. We can't deny that fact. Now, a lot of the business owners in Springfield have said they need those workers there to fulfill those roles. So, then my question becomes, as a conservative, from a policy perspective, then why is that? Why have so many people decided to leave that town and so many other towns across the country? If the critique is we're bringing in too many people, then what is the solution to that problem? And that's a very different argument that I don't think the former president is actually presenting, but he should be presenting that argument, because I think it's one that people would want to engage with.
LATHAN: I'll be honest with you, he's not interested in that argument. He's not interested in making a substantive plea about how we should be immigrating people. He's interested in scaring the hell out of people and making neighbors enemies so that people are afraid of enough to go and vote for him.
You know, what's funny? It's like we're having this conversation, and I get it, I understand, we have to talk about the political ramifications, we have to other side and we have to do all of that, there is somebody In Springfield right now, black people who are less safe, bomb threats, they are less safe and terrified because of something the leader of you guys party said. And all you have to do is just go -- all you have to do is just denounce it. It wasn't really Trump at all.
CUPP: And this is the craziest part, because to Ryan's point, both of these issues inert to Donald Trump's benefit. The economy and immigration would benefit him if only he could talk about them in the way that you two want him to talk about them. He would win on these issues because Americans are hurting economically, they are worried about a broken immigration system and a flood of migrants. He won't do it, and he's hurting himself with the voters he needs.
LATHAN: He doesn't have to do it because people are going to make excuses for him to talk and speak the way that he does, so then he just may lose the election then.
GIRDUSKY: This being Trump's third presidential campaign, he has spoken more about immigration than any candidate in my lifetime, and he has given more answers and more offers from the RAISE Act campaign to the border wall, the border wall that Kamala Harris is campaigning on. He has given more answers on how to protect this country with immigration, reduce immigration, put merit on immigration.
The only candidate in my lifetime said we should have merit based immigration, skills based immigration. To say that he has not said any issues is not true.
LATHAN: Well, he just killed the bill.
CUPP: No one said that. No one said that.
[22:30:00]
No one said he hasn't talked about it. I said he should be talking about it like you are, and he's not.
LATHAN: He's screwed. He's still on national television and screaming, they're eating cats and dogs.
MCGOWAN: There's a reason he's talking this much about immigration. It's because he has nothing else. There's a reason he killed the bill in Congress.
GIRDUSKY: He didn't kill the bill in Congress.
MCGOWAN: He definitely made a phone call and killed that bill.
GIRDUSKY: The bill was already dead before the call was even made. Yes, it was.
MCGOWAN: It was not dead. It would have absolutely been signed. Well, the Republican senators say that they killed the bill. My point is -- my point is --
PHILLIP: Hang on, guys. One at a time, please. MCGOWAN: My point is he wants to run on immigration. He is benefited by the border being open. He is benefited by saying that people are eating cats and dogs. He's benefiting by saying people are taking over. It's a benefit to running on immigration being broken.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think there's benefit to that. I think it's a benefit to run on -- I think it's a benefit to running on immigration there is definitely not a political benefit to saying people are eating cats and dogs and putting people's lives at risk.
MCGOWAN: Then why did he keep talking about it?
LATHAN: I have no clue why he said it. He said it because he thinks that he can scare his people out the wall.
UNKNOWN: As a logical person, there's no benefit.
PHILLIP: Hang on one second.
GIRDUSKY: Outside --Springfield aside, every major metropolitan area in this country, including New York City, where our mayor said this is the worst crisis he's seen and there's no ending site, every met is suffering because of Kamala Harris's immigration policies.
PHILLIP: Okay. Ryan, the last time you were -- hold on. The last time you were on the show, Ryan, we talked about this. The situation in New York is substantively different from the situation in Ohio. The other thing that I think we should point out is that before these Haitian immigrants came to this town in Ohio, there were jobs there. But those jobs were open and going unfulfilled. And employers were doing everything that they could to fill the jobs. No one would fill them but Haitian immigrants who came for work.
GIRDUSKY: The reason there were jobs was because during --
PHILLIP: So, why are you blaming them for that?
GIRDUSKY: I'm not blaming them. I'm not blaming them. I don't hate Haitian immigrants at all. It's not about them. It's about us. And the fact of the matter is, is that in 2017, under Trump's presidency, the reason Springfield had the surge was because Japanese companies started investing in Springfield because they trusted the Trump presidency. And after years of declining population, they added this huge explosion of jobs.
PHILLIP: Okay.
GIRDUSKY: President Trump tried to end the Haitian temporary protected status. It went into the courts. Then Biden started --
Phillip: Hold on, hold on. Hang on, hang on. We do have to go. Let me just, let me let you finish.
GIRDUSKY: No, they're not.
PHILLIP: Let me let you finish your thought here. The companies came in, they could not fill the jobs, and that's the Haitians' fault. Why?
GIRDUSKY: That's not the Haitians' fault.
PHILLIP: So, then --
GIRDUSKY: It's a policy position by the government. It's not the people. I don't blame them for coming. I blame the government for expanding TPS to 300,000 Haitians when it was 59,000 a couple years ago.
PHILLIP: They didn't expand -- they didn't expand TPS. They didn't expand TPS to fill jobs in Ohio.
GIRDUSKY: No, but they expanded it, period.
PHILLIP: Okay. They expanded TPS because TPS is for people who are fleeing countries where they are at risk of being killed or there is an incredible amount of unrest.
GIRDUSKY: And the first word is temporary. That's the point of TPS. It is now a more permanent thing where we have people rolling for years.
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it here.
UNKNOWN: Are we out of time? Okay, that's fine.
PHILLIP: We are out of time for this conversation, but of course we've got a lot more ahead. Everyone stick around for us because the Springfield mayor is going to actually join Laura Coates at the top of the next hour, so you don't want to miss that. But Oprah -- she may have viral television moments with huge stars, or she may make brands go viral. But the question is, can she boost Kamala Harris in this moment?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST, PRODUCER, ACTRESS: It actually is. Hope and joy rising. And there's been a -- can you feel it? You can feel it. You can feel it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:37:54]
PHILLIP: Can Oprah Winfrey elevate another candidate to the White House? Well tonight, the billionaire appeared with Kamala Harris to help make that happen. The two co-hosted a campaign event in Michigan called Unite for America. And at one point, things got emotional when the family of a woman whose death is linked to abortion restrictions in Georgia came face to face with Harris. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANETTE WILLIAMS, DAUGHTER DIED OF ABORTION-RELATED COMPLICATIONS: You're looking at a mother that is broken. The worst pain ever that a mother, that a parent could ever feel. Her father and myself and the family, you're looking at it.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINIEE (D): Amber's mom shared with me that the word over and over again in her mind is preventable.
These abortion bans have been passed that criminalize health care providers. In a couple of states, prison for life, Oprah. Prison for life in a couple of states for a doctor or a nurse who provides health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was one of the most emotional moments from this event. Oprah was crying, I mean, many, many people in the audience were crying, and it really took me back, I mean, obviously, to the Oprah Winfrey that everyone had in their living rooms for, you know, decades. Will this be effective?
MCGOWAN: Well, I think the abortion issue is effective. Whether Oprah is the person that brings it to us, Kamala Harris is the person that brings it to us. The thing is stripping women of their rights in this country was always inevitably going to lead to death. And Amber's a perfect example of that.
The doctors knew exactly what to do when she arrived at the hospital and they waited 20 hours to do the necessary DNC and she died because they waited too long. It's not that they didn't know what to do. It's not that there was a crisis. It was a completely, as her mother said, preventable death. And that happens when you take people's rights from them and you say all of this fits into this one tank when it doesn't.
[22:40:00]
Our healthcare is our bodies. It's our lives. It's our livelihoods. Quite frankly, it's an economic issue. I don't know why we keep separating the economy from abortion. How many people are sitting at your kitchen table is a kitchen table issue. So, abortion is center, whether Oprah brings it to us or not, abortion will be center to this election.
PHILLIP: But these events are, you know, part of a strategy that the Harris campaign is putting out there, which is to largely avoid doing interviews. They're not necessarily settings where she shines. So, they're doing this instead. And this was very different for her. Might it work? Will this be enough? I mean, we have, you know, less than 50 days until the next election. So -
CUPP: Yes, the answer is it is not enough, it will work partly. So, let me explain.
MCGOWAN: Please do explain.
CUPP: This is a great event and it's good for her. And -- and listen, especially with Oprah and an Oprah audience, this is really, really important for Kamala Harris because Donald Trump has every base voter he's going to get. She does not have every base voter she can get. And she's -- needs
about 10 points more black voters in places like Georgia to be where she needs to be to win these swing states. So, these are incredibly important moments for her.
They are not enough, though. She still has to sit down and answer questions. I'm not inventing this. I talk to swing state voters all day. And what they're telling me is I'm still undecided because I haven't heard enough from Kamala Harris.
They know who Donald Trump is. They don't know enough about Kamala Harris. And they're not here for the soft interviews. They want her to have to answer real questions about the problems they have.
This is them in their own words. You don't have to take it from SE Cupp. Take it from the voters you need. She needs more interviews.
MCGOWAN: But can I ask you, SE Cupp, can I say to you, like, then where is Trump having those real hard-hitting interviews where he says, I'm going to mass deport 11 million people --
CUPP: He's not but undecided voters know who he is. He doesn't need to.
MCGOWAN: - but he doesn't actually explain that. Why does he have to explain every nuance of every policy --
CUPP: First of all, he does a ton of those.
MCGOWAN: but he can just save? Absolutely, but he doesn't answer a lot of questions.
CUPP: But I just explained. Undecided voters know who he is. That's not their concern. They know who he is. They don't feel like they know who she is. That's something, if I'm the Harris campaign, I'm listening to those voters. They're the voters I need. So, it's not about, well, I should, why am I doing more than what Trump has to do? Forget it. Do you want to win? Listen to those voters.
GIRDUSKY: I will sit there and say, with Oprah, I don't know if Oprah of 2024 means as much as Oprah 2008, just because the nature of celebrity has changed. You used to be a celebrity in 2008, and you were a celebrity. Everyone knew your name, she had a universal name I.D. People under 30 probably don't have a deep connection to Oprah Winfrey, they were children when her show ended.
And we even saw with Taylor Swift last week when she endorsed Kamala Harris online, voter registration spiked slightly for the first day, but it was still down significantly from four years prior as far as new voter registration. I don't know if celebrity --
UNKNOWN: I don't know if that's true. Is it?
GIRDUSKY: It is true. I think John --
CUPP: No, you're right. Celebrity endorsements don't rule it. This isn't an endorsement.
PHILLIP: And I don't know if this is about voters under 30. But Van, let me let you get in there.
LATHAN: I think that it matters how she shows up and not necessarily where she shows up. I think people want to see her.
MCGOWAN: Yes, exactly.
LATHAN: Like, that's a home game, right? So, that's a home game. I think people want to see her on the road. I think a lot of the people who have questions about Kamala Harris, whether or not they are fair or unfair, what they want to see is her willingness to answer those questions.
And that's going to help her. Those are opportunities, opportunities in Georgia, opportunities in Pennsylvania. Don't look at them as peril. They're opportunities because when she gets in front of those people and those spaces, she does really, really well.
PHILLIP: I think that this is a really important point because, you know, the idea is not necessarily that she has to fill in all the blanks and all the policy. It's actually that she needs to be the person that she was with Oprah in other settings, as well. I want to play another part from this -- this event tonight that I think might surprise a lot of people at home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: I'm in favor of assault weapons bans, universal background checks, red flag laws. I'm a gun owner, Tim Walz is a gun --
OPRAH: I did not know that.
HARRIS: If somebody breaks in my house, they're getting shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIRDUSKY: love that she has the Catholic doctrine.
UNKNOWN: Yes, I know, right?
GIRDUSKY: That's wonderful. Florida laws everywhere.
SINGLETON: I understand why the campaign decided to do this event with Oprah. I think they recognize that the vice president has a very serious issue with men. My assumption is that because of that awareness, they hope to double up the penetration of women to provide some type of a buffer for some mathematical potential losses.
MCGOWAN: That was a hell of an expression.
PHILLIP: Choice of words -- but we will move on from that.
SINGLETON: Yes, you guys are taking that the wrong way here, guys.
CUPP: You were setting.
SINGLETON: But you're taking it the wrong way.
LANZA: Have you been on New Africa?
PHILLIP: We are going to move on. Go ahead, Michael.
CUPP: But I'd like you to change your words, Michael.
[22:45:00]
SINGLETON: My point is that I think by attempting to double up on their outreach and engagement for women --
CUPP: Thank you.
SINGLETON: -- they are attempting to provide a buffer for the vice president for whatever potential losses she may have for men. I'm not certain, though, if that mathematically will be enough in places like Pennsylvania where I think men will absolutely matter, where I think the vice president if you look at the underlying numbers will probably need to turn out five -- six --
PHILLIP: But will they like that answer about guns -- men?
SINGLETON: I don't think so. I'm a gun owner. I own a gun business. I'm not convinced by that. Y
PHILLIP: You don't -- you don't buy it?
UNKNOWN: What kind of gun does Kamala Harris have?
SINGLETON: No, I don't believe it's important banning AR-15s. I do not believe necessarily in red flag laws particularly because of the implications of men of color who are one of the fastest-growing groups of gun owners now.
So, can a neighbor of mine who happens to be white call the police because they're afraid that I as a black man have a gun, the police has come to my door with guns blazing. So, I have a lot of legitimate concerns about red flag laws.
CUPP: That's not how they work though. You have to be adjudicated by a judge. Not a neighbor.
SINGLETON: But my point is, SE, it puts people of color who are gun owners at a higher propensity of being potentially shot by a police officer coming to their home --
CUPP: That's not red flag laws, though. I don't doubt that at all. But that's not -- that has nothing to do with red flag laws.
SINGLETON: -- to take their guns.
MCGOWAN: But I do think having Kamala Harris say if you break into my house, you're getting shot, is different than what you typically hear from Democrats, right? Like, you think Democrats are coming for all your guns, we're coming to take all of them, and here you have a candidate saying, here's what I will do if you come into my home. And I do think that is different.
SINGLETON: But I don't think people believe that though.
GIRDUSKY: What she just said a couple minutes ago is that she said I'm taking all your guns away a thousand days ago, or 1200 days ago.
MCGOWAN: No, she never said she was taking all your guns away.
GIRDUSKY: Mandatory -- mandatory --
UNKNOWN: Gun buybacks.
GIRDUSKY: Yes, she did. She said that 1200 days ago, and now she's this proud gun owner.
PHILLIP: She's also mandatory times weapon master.
PHILLIP: She was not -- she was not all your guns.
SINGLETON: But not all of your guns, just the AR-15s.
LATHAN: I mean, to be honest, I am a gun owner. I own, and I have many guns.
PHILLIP: Hang on a second. We got more ahead. I'm going to just leave it there because we've already talked about that. Coming up next, the panel gives us their night caps, including which state will become a surprise battleground in this next election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:51:30]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Shermichael, you're up.
SINGLETON: All right, so look, we've spent a lot of time talking about Springfield, Ohio. I think immigration is an issue that we need to discuss. How many individuals do we allow into the country? Is it based off of merit? Is it based off of needs of certain industries? That is what I think a part of that conversation that's missing.
It's why it's still a top two, top three issue for most American voters. I would like to see the conversation shift nationally to be about a more policy directive in terms of how do we solve this as a country versus the racism that we're sort of seeing and some of the xenophobia that we're seeing.
CUPP: I mean, this isn't hot. That is right. That is just a right take.
SINGLETON: Yes, it is a right take, SE. But I think the American people sort of expect at some point for people in politics to actually solve the damn problems that they're facing --
PHILLIP: Amen to that.
SINGLETON: -- instead of constantly making excuses.
PHILLIP: Amen to that.
MCGOWAN: That's a nice hot take.
PHILLIP: All right, SE, you are up.
CUPP: Oh, my hot take is Florida is a swing state.
MCGOWAN: I agree with that.
SINGLETON: And my hot take was lukewarm?
CUPP: This is a hot take -- is a swing state. New polling today from FAU has Kamala Harris up five points in Florida, which if this holds, if Florida goes blue, bad news for Ron DeSantis, not because he can't run for governor again, but he can't -- he can't run for president if the state turned blue while you were governor of it.
PHILLIP: All right, we'll see about -- we'll see about that. That is a provocative hole that you just brought up.
CUPP: I am taking odds, literally.
LATHAN: Clearly.
PHILLIP: All right, Leigh, you're up.
MCGOWAN: All right, this is out of left field. I think that justice is coming for the rich and famous of America. I think that P. Diddy, hanging out in jail with no bail, has really shaken people who think that they sit above the law.
And I think that if we are smart enough to elect someone who has spent her life protecting the law instead of someone who has spent his life breaking the law, then we are looking at a reckoning for some of the richest and most famous criminals in this nation, and I for one look forward to it.
PHILLIP: This has been a long go for the Me Too movement. It's still going.
CUPP: It's still going.
PHILLIP: All right, Ryan.
GIRDUSKY: There were three movies released last weekend in the box office that specifically spoke to and catered to conservative audiences. "Reagan", "I'm Not Dead", and "Am I a Racist?" They made money, and especially considering their budgets.
And in a year where Hollywood has suffered so badly from poor box office returns, it wouldn't be a bad idea going forward if they spent more time catering to conservative audiences and finding a niche in that market.
PHILLIP: Interesting. All right, Van, we're going to save yours for after the break.
UNKNOWN: What?
PHILLIP: Very provocative.
LATHAN: Oh.
CUPP: The hottest of hot takes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:40]
PHILLIP: And we are back, but just a quick note before we get to Van. Leigh McGowan's book, "A Return to Common Sense" -- it is out this week. Congratulations.
MCGOWAN: Thank you. And that's what we're talking about here. We need to have a return to common sense, right? Where we can have real conversations.
PHILLIP: That is exactly right. Are you going to give us some common sense or what?
LATHAN: Yes, common sense. Children need their own society. So, we literally, like children should have their own society. This is what I mean. I mean, like everything should be separate for kids. They should have their own water fountains, their own theaters, their own airplanes, their own everything. Just for kids.
MCGOWAN: Why?
LATHAN: Because kids don't have no respect.
SINGLETON: Where are you going with this, man?
LATHAN: Like you walking through the airport, they don't have any spatial awareness. They bump in to you. They're crying.
CUPP: Who hurt you?
LATHAN: They got germs everywhere.
CUPP: Do you have children?
LATHAN: I don't.
CUPP: Obviously.
LATHAN: But I love my nieces and nephews at nap time.
CUPP: We are glad you are not running for office.
SINGLETON: Van, do you want to run in the future?
LATHAN: Probably not. I love families.
CUPP: You definitely cannot now.
MCGOWAN: Women don't love hearing this.
PHILLIP: This is like the childless cat ladies of children comments.
SINGLETON: Well, Van, you just beat mine earlier, so thank you for that. I needed it. Thank you for that.
LATHAN: I love kids just from afar.
PHILLIP: Shermichael, is your phone blowing up right now?
SINGLETON: It is, but Van has definitely cleaned it up for me so, thank you, Van.
LATHAN: Yes.
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: He said, put children in their own play. There's nothing wrong with kids.
LATHAN: I love them.
CUPP: You don't.
PHILLIP: As soon as you have a child, you'll understand why the only appropriate response when you see a child acting up in public is empathy for both the child and for the parents.
LATHAN: Oh, for real?
GIRDUSKY: No compassion man. Zero.
PHILLIP: OK. All right, everyone. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
CUPP: Do you want to go right -- OK. All right.
