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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Harris Gives Interview to 60 Minutes After Trump Backs Out; New York Times Analysis Shows Trump's Rhetoric Turns Darker, Less Coherent; Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN) Says, I'm Not a Pathological Liar Like Trump. Hurricane Milton Targets Florida; V.P. Harris Hits Donald Trump Over Lies About Storms Affecting U.S. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 07, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, flooding the zone, Kamala Harris calls her daddy, gets the 60 minutes treatment and sits with Howard Stern, the strategy to do everything and be everywhere all at once.
Plus, Donald Trump's racist rant --
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We got a lot of bad genes in our country right now.
PHILLIP: -- paints immigrants as genetically inferior --
TRUMP: Many of them murdered far more than one person.
PHILLIP: -- and predisposed to commit murder.
Also, another monster storm on the way, as Trump's hurricane of lies sweep up Republican voters and a storm state governor won't take the vice president's call.
And a solemn milestone creates a campaign trail conundrum as Harris fends off questions about Israel's relationship with the United States.
Live at the table, Michael Eric Dyson, Scott Jennings, Jay Michaelson, Madison Gessiotto and Al Franken.
With 28 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get straight to what America is talking about, two very different answers on one American crisis. Tonight, we watched some course correction. You'll remember when you'd be hard pressed to find an interview or maybe a media appearance with Kamala Harris. Well, that has all now changed. The Democratic nominee, she is trying to make sure that you can't miss her, whether it's on T.V., on your radio, in your podcast feed.
Well, tonight's stop, it was an extended sit down with 60 Minutes where she said this about border policy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it a mistake to loosen the immigration policies as much as you did?
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's a longstanding problem and solutions are at hand. And from day one, literally, we have been offering solutions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I was asking was, was it a mistake to kind of allow that flood to happen in the first place?
HARRIS: I think the policies that we have been proposing are about fixing a problem, not promoting a problem, okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the numbers did quadruple under you watch.
HARRIS: and the numbers today because of what we have done, we have cut the flow of illegal immigration by half.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should you have done that -- should you have done that --
HARRIS: We have cut the flow of fentanyl by half. But we need Congress to be able to act to actually fix the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Also tonight, the country is grappling with the language of hate, Donald Trump, using the broadest possible brush to otherize migrants and signal to his supporters that the people coming into the United States are inferior. Just listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: How about allowing people to come to an open border, 13,000 of which were murderers, many of them murdered far more than one person? And they're now happily living in the United States. You know, now a murderer, I believe this, it's in their genes, and we got a lot of bad genes in our country right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Here at the table, you know, it's a sort of moment of contrast between these two, and the thing that you wonder, in addition to why Trump seems really obsessed with this idea of the genetic composition of immigrants, is why can't he just talk about the issues as opposed to going there? SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, you heard it, he's obsessed with the genetic composition of the murderers and the violent people who are in the country. We do have 13, 000 murderers here. We have even more people here who've committed sexual crimes, violent, sexual crimes.
PHILLIP: What about the kinetic (ph) composition of murderers here in the United States who are American citizens? I mean, what should we do about that?
JENNINGS: Fine. I think it's perfectly fine to acknowledge that there is a long body of research that there are some people who are genetically predisposed to violence. But today, there has been an effort to make it seem like Donald Trump is saying something about immigrants when all he is commenting on are the violent murderers who are in the country. It's simply not true what's being said about him today. And I can't believe, honestly, what I'm hearing. I've seen people all day long attacking Trump because he's worried that we have 13,000 violent --
[22:05:01]
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: But he's calling attention. There are white people in this country who are committing far more murders than immigrants.
MADISON GESIOTTO, FORMER RNC NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: There's also white immigrants in the country, too.
DYSON: The point is Donald Trump is white supremacist. He is generating nativist language to appeal to genetic bases of behavior. That is a classic definition of what we mean by white supremacy.
PHILLIP: When I talk about the why does he keep doing this, it's because this is not the only time he's talked about this. He has said, broadly, that immigrants are poisoning the blood of this country. So, that has also happened.
DYSON: That's literally a white supremacist trope, by the way.
PHILLIP: But, I mean, you can't explain that away as he's talking about murderers.
GESIOTTO: I think what Scott is saying is absolutely accurate when it comes to this being very unfair. There have been many cases when I'm on your show and other shows, and I will call out when I think it's wrong. But in this case, I don't think that's what he was saying. This goes back to that nature versus nurture debate. This has nothing to do with race. I don't care whether it's a white person, a black person, an immigrant, an American. Somebody who kills somebody may actually have bad genes, and that's been studied for many, many years.
We don't want people murdering people in this country. I don't care whether they are born here, or they come from somewhere else. And we certainly, when we already have a crime problem in our country, with people who are born here, we don't want 13,000 murderers. We don't want over 400,000 convicted criminals coming to this country and staying here for decades, because, as we all know, we have a broken immigration system, in which we have a court backlog that extends up to a decade, maybe more.
JAY MICHAELSON, RABBI AND CONTRIBUTOR, THE FORWARD AND ROLLING STONE: Surely everyone at this table knows that the rate of immigrant crime is actually lower than the rate of crime by U.S. (INAUDIBLE) citizens.
GESIOTTO: So, you're okay with 13,000 murderers being in the country because of the rate of crime?
MICHAELSON: That's not really how it works.
PHILLIP: Madison, hang on a second.
GESIOTTO: That is how it works
MICHAELSON: When there's an immigrant, when there's --
PHILLIP: Hang on a second, Jay, because I'll let you continue. But I just have to address -- look, that number, it's wildly misleading to suggest that that is a number that references a small period of time. That is like over the course of many decades.
GESIOTTO: I don't think anybody at this table talked about the reference of time. The fact is they're here. And if they've been here for decades, that's even worse.
PHILLIP: 13,000 people who were convicted, who were incarcerated over the course of decades is not a sign that there is any greater incidence of crime among --
GESIOTTO: Well, considering that we've seen the numbers quadruple of the people coming in, we may not be able to --
DYSON: Well, what about the people here? This is my point. What about the genetic makeup of people who are already in America who are doing that?
GESIOTTO: I have a problem with that too. And guess what? We don't want them here out in the streets for a year.
DYSON: Why isn't it articulated? Why isn't it repeated? Why isn't it made the basis for his argument?
GESIOTTO: Because he's specifically about the open border? He's not talking about murderers, in general.
MICHAELSON: A moment ago you said he wasn't talking about immigration, now you're saying he is talking about immigration. The fact is he is lying.
GESIOTTO: He's asking why we're not talking about other criminals.
JENNINGS: He got asked about immigration. He got asked about immigration. MICHAELSON: You know Scott. You know full well that he has repeated this lie for eight years.
GESIOTTO: We said he's not talking about a specific case.
PHILLIP: Guys, one at a time, please.
MICHAELSON: He has repeated this lie for eight years, that immigrants are in some way more prone to criminality, that they're less human, that they have bad blood, that they have bad genetics, I don't understand how you convince words around the racist nature of that.
GESIOTTO: He's not saying all immigrants and he's racist. His wife is an immigrant.
MICHAELSON: When he came down the elevator, he said that Mexico was sending their rapists and their murderers. They're sending people who are seeking --
GESIOTTO: And these stat would tell us that a lot of rapists and murderers have gotten here.
MICHAELSON: At a lower rate than natural born citizens.
GESIOTTO: You're okay with them if it's a lower rate? That's the most ridiculous I've ever heard. We don't want rapes and murderers here. It's an escape. But we don't -- if it's preventable, if it's preventable that people come across the border.
PHILLIP: Let me let the senator get in here. Go ahead, Al.
FMR. SEN. AL FRANKEN (D-MN): We don't go like, okay, you're a rapist, you're in. You're a rapist, you're okay, come on in. That's not how it works. I mean, these are people who are not brought in knowing that they are rapists. So, there is such a thing as it turns out that -- and I don't know, and I think Abby's right, this is over decades. And so many of these rapists came in when Donald Trump --
GESIOTTO: And so why haven't we gotten them out? That's the problem. I mean, if some of them have been not only convicted, they've been deported and they're still roaming the country.
PHILLIP: No, that is not true.
GESIOTTO: No. Some of them have been convicted of murder outside of their countries. We find out about it later. Then they get deported and they're still roaming the nation. That's a fact, Abby.
PHILLIP: The numbers that you're referring to --
DYSON: There are many more white rapists in this country than immigrants will ever account for.
GESIOTTO: Trust me, I don't want any rapists in our country.
DYSON: The overwhelming information of white men to be seen as the perpetrators of violence that is extraordinary in this country is well-documented, but you don't appeal to a genetic basis. This is classic white supremacy and your justification of it is an extension of that logic.
GESIOTTO: No one's talking about race. That's the problem.
DYSON: No.
MICHAELSON: We're just talking about immigrants that have bad genetics and bad blood. That is what racism is.
GESIOTTO: But it's not all immigrants are minorities. Not every immigrant is a minority. Any immigrant that commits a crime, we want out of this country. I don't know how we could be arguing about that point right now.
PHILLIP: Hang on a second. Let me just play just so that people understand. We've been talking about Trump's comments about immigrants over a course of time.
[22:10:02]
He's been talking about this for a while and talking specifically about basically people's genetic makeup of the people who are coming to this country. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Nobody has any idea where these people are coming from.
It's poisoning the blood of our country.
They're poisoning the blood of our country.
They're poisoning. They're poisoning our country.
A lot of it's about the genes, isn't it? Don't you believe the racehorse theory you think was so different?
You know, I believe in the racehorse theory. Fast horses produce fast horses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: This is an old thing. This is an old that that you can identify who's a rapist by their color and by their immigrant status. I just think this is offensive.
JENNINGS: Let me give you the political reality that we're in right now in October.
FRANKEN: Sure.
JENNINGS: Huge majority of the American people believe and know that we have an illegal immigration crisis in this country. Kamala Harris got asked three times on national television tonight if it was wrong to change the executive orders the way they did on day one that allowed this huge flood of people to come in. She would not address it because she knows how politically damaging it is.
There are people all over this country and every political party and independents too who know full well that if she becomes the president, we're going to have a permissive immigration structure, even more permissive than we had under Biden. And they believe Donald Trump will crack down on this and that he has the common sense viewpoint that, hey, maybe we don't want violent people in here.
No, they don't go down the list and say, rapist in, rapist in. They just go down the list and say, in, in, in, in. Why don't we know if they've been convicted of a crime in another country? It's broken. He will crack down on it, she will not and everyone --
MICHAELSON: Scott, you just perpetuated the same lie that Donald Trump has been saying for eight years that we're letting in violent people. We are letting in people, and this group of people who are coming in, most of whom are coming for economic opportunity, commit crimes at a lower rate, I'll just keep saying it, a lower rate than people who were born here. That's the reality.
JENNINGS: Is that why you want to keep the violence?
MICHAELSON: You could make a non-racist argument about immigration control, and I'd be receptive to hearing it, but Donald Trump --
JENNINGS: And you can make an honest argument about what you're saying. You're saying we have to keep the violent people because of the economic people, and that's not true.
MICHAELSON: I don't remember saying that at all. You just said Donald Trump has made the racist argument since day one. Since 2016, he has said this again and again. I'm sure I can't say the word he described some S-hole countries. Those were countries in Africa. Those were countries with brown skinned people. Then he said, how come we can't have more immigrants from Norway, like the whitest country on the planet? And you're going to say that there's no race inflection here, that this is just I'm worried about crime? Come on. You know better and you should know better.
DYSON: If you're an immigrant with whose name is Joseph, you're in. If you're Jose, you're not. The point is that the discrimination against to discriminate in terms of distinguishing who's violent and who's not ends up being, ironically, inadvertently, wink, wink, tethered to race and to the immigration policy that is premised upon denying the legitimacy of American status to these people. Why is it that we got to pick them out in terms of you're violent because you're Mexican, you're violent because you're Dominican, you're violent because --
GESIOTTO: Couldn't we just have a better system where we're able to maybe check before we let them in?
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: One at a time here.
DYSON: Again, are we going to export a bunch of white guys with chemicals?
PHILLIP: Michael, we're going to have to go here, but, you know, again, with a lot of these arguments, you're making an articulate argument, you're making an articulate argument, Donald Trump is saying that they've got -- they're poisoning the blood, that they have bad genes. Those are not the same conversations.
FRANKEN: The Mexicans are coming in and they're rapists. That's what he said when he came down that --
PHILLIP: Lots more ahead. Coming up next, a computer analysis takes a look at Donald Trump's rhetoric. It is not only getting darker but it has devolved to a fourth grade level.
Plus, see what happened when 60 Minutes confronted Tim Walz about his false statements about his past. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: We just debated Donald Trump's words about immigrants. And in a New York Times analysis, they now say they have proof of a pattern. Their new analysis tracked Trump's speeches, and they found that they've grown, quote, darker, harsher, longer, angrier, less focused, more profane and increasingly fixated on the past.
They've got the numbers to back this up, 13 percent more all-or- nothing terms. 32 percent more negative than the first time he ran. 69 percent more swear words, which is called disinhibition, according to the experts. Some of us have more disinhibition than others, maybe on their bad days.
But, I mean, the interesting thing about Trump, I think, a lot of times when you look at how he speaks, is that, especially now, these rally speeches, they're running two hours sometimes, and a lot of it is kind of incomprehensible, and it's hard to understand, and the times kind of shows what that looks like.
JENNINGS: I'm sorry, could I just introduce everybody here to Kamala Harris? Have you ever listened to her try to answer a question tonight?
PHILLIP: We just listened to her in the last block.
JENNINGS: I mean, it's amazing to me that we have analyzed Donald Trump's speeches. You literally listen to her, says absolutely nothing, answers no questions, ignores every serious policy question, and we've got to run in a computer on Donald Trump?
[22:20:00]
I don't understand. PHILLIP: People at home heard Kamala Harris in the last block, right? Okay, so let's play Donald Trump. This is an excerpt from 2023 that the Times pulls out to kind of illustrate one of the phenomenon that Trump does when he talks, which is talk about all kinds of other things other than the thing he meant to talk about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We built a thing called the Panama Canal. We lost 35,000 people to the mosquito, you know, malaria. We lost 35, 000 people building. We lost 35,000 people because of the mosquito, vicious. They had to build under nets. It was one of the true, great wonders of the world. As he said, one of the nine wonders of the world. No, it was one of the seven. This happened a little while ago. You know, since nine wonders of the world, you could make nine wonders. He would have been better off if he stuck with the nine and just said, yes, I think it's nine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DYSON: If that was Joe Biden, people would be --
PHILLIP: Okay, Scott --
JENNINGS: What? We're from mosquito now (ph)?
PHILLIP: I get that you are saying that Kamala Harris -- maybe -- okay, maybe she doesn't answer the questions. Donald Trump, what is he saying?
JENNINGS: I don't know. He hates mosquitoes and he loves dams. I don't know. I mean, I didn't hear the question and I didn't watch that interview.
DYSON: He's maniacally incoherent. The point is there is no comparison between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. Even if you argue that she's avoiding the issue, she's clear, she's articulate, you understand what she's talking about and she speaks in complete sentences. Donald Trump is James Joyce.
JENNINGS: She is the queen of the propositional phrase, I'm giving you that.
FRANKEN: I object to it more, it's just that he lies a lot.
DYSON: That too.
FRANKEN: Trump lies a lot. For example, he keeps saying this, that it's okay in Minnesota to kill a baby after it's been born. You've heard this? You've heard it. Come on.
JENNINGS: Well, it is okay,
PHILLIP: Okay. We talked, it was mentioned at the debate. Continue.
JENNINGS: He did not tell the truth, Walz did not tell the truth about the Minnesota law at the debate, you have to admit.
FRANKEN: The law is that you can have an abortion up to any time, but in reality, you're not doing an abortion at nine months.
JENNINGS: What about legally?
PHILLIP: Okay. I don't want to --
DYSON: We're dealing with Donald Trump now, because --
PHILLIP: I talked about that because I think that one of the things that we want to stay on topic, one of the things that they talk about is the nature of how he talks about issues. Trump came down the escalator, you mentioned this, came down the escalator talking about immigrants, but the way that he talks about them even now is very different. And it is a lot more violent, it is a lot more evocative than even then.
MICHAELSON: Right. I think the Trump phenomenon and the success of the Trump phenomenon is a symptom of a much deeper vulgarity and loss of civility in American culture. The sad fact is, I think, that those two-hour rambling speeches are pretty familiar to anyone who listens to Joe Rogan or other sort of podcasters who just ramble and ramble and ramble. It's not that different.
And I don't think it's clearly not about the issues. There are plenty of articulate Republicans. J.D. Vance had a very good vice presidential debate, mostly, and is able to speak in paragraphs and in sentences, as Harris does, as Walz does. But the reality is that this isn't like beside the point of his success. This is his success. People want to hear this. They want to hear this rage.
PHILLIP: But the fourth grade reading level part of it -- I think you're right about that. That's the detail in the speech that, you know, actually maybe that helps him be more understandable to a part of the electorate?
MICHAELSON: You know, he may lie all the time about the facts, but he is very good at talking about the feelings in a way we think that is maybe some left wing touchy feely thing, talk about your feelings. Donald Trump talks about feelings every single time he speaks, right, the rage, the vindictiveness, the sense of being left behind, the resentment. This is sort of the dark heart of populism, and Donald Trump knows how to tap into it.
PHILLIP: I want to -- this is a little bit separate, but actually in the same vein. I mean, Tim Walz today was confronted about his long history of misspeaking, lying, whatever you want to call it. Here's what he said to 60 Minutes about all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that kind of misrepresentation, isn't that more than just being a knucklehead?
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think folks know who I am, and I think they know the difference between someone expressing emotion, telling your story, getting a date wrong by a -- you know, rather than a pathological liar like Donald Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I think it comes down to the question of whether you can be trusted to tell the truth.
WALZ: Yes, well, I can. I think I can. I will own up to being a knucklehead at times, but the folks closest to me know that I keep my word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Wait a minute.
GESIOTTO: Yes. This is the time where they're saying, why didn't we pick Shapiro? I don't think he's helping the ticket. And then, you know, they're finally getting out there, doing some interviews, but is it too little too late, I think, is the big question for Democrats right now.
PHILLIP: Does he have a point about the nature of his misdeeds? Okay, he lied about, you know, several things. He lied about when he was in China. But is there a difference between that and the kinds of lies that Donald Trump tells every day? I mean, we'll talk about this later in the show. He's lying about how FEMA is operating in North Carolina and other parts of the south. I mean, those are lies that affect people right now.
GESIOTTO: Well, I think Walls is just coming on the scene in this national context, and I do think he's lied on multiple occasions about multiple things, but, again, I don't think he's adding to the ticket, and I think that's the bigger point to be made here. And, of course, like I said, they started doing these interviews, but we're talking about critical swing states like Georgia and Arizona, voter registration ended today.
So, I really think they're getting out very late to the punch and then she chooses, of course, to do the Call Her Daddy interview, which I think was quite comfortable considering 90 percent of the listeners are women. A lot of these are younger women. I don't think she's willing to take those hard questions, and I don't think he's doing any better at that.
PHILLIP: I got to just note here, Donald Trump did not do a 60 Minutes interview.
DYSON: I was just about to say that.
GESIOTTO: He did multiple 60 Minutes interviews.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump agreed to a 60 Minutes interview. They had the receipts, by the way, tonight. And he did not end up taking -- Go ahead, Scott.
GESIOTTO: How many times?
JENNINGS: Why are we letting walls off the hook here? I mean --
PHILLIP: I just played the bite.
JENNIGNS: But like, this idea -- no, I'm just -- he said, occasionally, I'll be a knucklehead. I mean, knucklehead is a euphemism for a damn liar. It's not just China. Military record, the fertility treatments, which he uses as a political cudgel against his opponents on IVF, which they lie about all the time. He talks about things in the campaign of a policy nature that are absolutely not true. We just met this guy eight weeks ago, and all we know is that he frequently fabricates his own personal narrative to make political points.
DYSON: Here's the point. The point you made earlier about the fact that Donald Trump withdrew from the 60 Minutes debate. We are not -- we can hold Tim Walz accountable. We can talk about discrepancies. We can talk about mendacity. The point you made about the quality and pedigree of a particular misstatement, the kind of, quote, knucklehead, and we can take it to mean what Scott says, is qualitatively different than a person who is deliberately deploying lies to create false narratives that hurt other people that have a destructive impact upon the nation, and that he refuses to be held accountable for.
MICHAELSON: Narratives like the fact that January 6th was a pleasant, quiet tour around the Capitol.
DYSON: That too. But the refusal to acknowledge that the truth right before him not to be held to account, going on Fox News as opposed to CBS' 60 Minutes because he doesn't want to be held accountable because he refuses in a kind of neo-fascist gesture to be held accountable for anything that he says.
PHILLIP: Senator, you've talked to -- you've known Tim Walz for a long time. I mean, this is a pattern for him. He's been asked about it many times. These answers keep shifting, but not quite landing as I made a mistake, and I'm sorry.
FRANKEN: Well, as far as I know, the ones he's done is that he said he had been to China during Tiananmen Square, and he wasn't. And what are the other ones?
JENNINGS: Is it military, numerous issues with his military service?
FRANKEN: No, the military record is just, he once said that I --
PHILLIP: He said he has carried weapons of war, which was not the case, and his nature of service.
FRANKEN: Theater of war.
PHILLIP: Yes.
FRANKEN: Okay. But are there any lies that you all have discovered that Donald Trump, whereas Trump is just lying every day he has a speech. The New York Times did an analysis of his speech and of Kamala's speech and he told 86 lies in 63 minutes. That's not Tim Walz.
DYSON: I'm just curious if Madison and Scott are disturbed by any lies that Donald Trump is telling. You've done an analysis of Walz. Are there any lies that Donald Trump tells that you are disturbed by?
JENNINGS: I don't want any politician to lie ever. I wish they would all tell the truth all the time.
MICHAELSON: That was a Kamala Harris evasion. What is a lie that Donald Trump has told that --
JENNINGS: And, look, first of all, I don't answer to you, and I don't answer to you. That's number one. Number two, it is my --
DYSON: I don't point my finger --
JENNINGS: Well, I don't answer to these two guys. It's my sincerest hope that all politicians do the best job they can to be honest.
MICHAELSON: So, you still haven't answered the question.
GESIOTTO: And that's what the American people deserve. And I think when you --
JENNINGS: What lies does Kamala Harris tell that you're mad about? Can you give me a list? Have you brought it? Is it in your jacket?
MICHAELSON: Sure. You want me to say some things that Kamala Harris has sort of shifted her position on healthcare?
JENNINGS: No, not shifted. Why?
GESIOTTO: Lies.
MICHAELSON: She hasn't lied. She's --
GESIOTTO: She's never lied?
MICHAELSON: Now, it's your turn. Is there any Donald Trump lie? How about the, you like the blood of immigrants.
[22:30:00]
Is there some Donald Trump lie? How about January 6th was just a tour? I didn't have anything to do with January 6th. How about Stormy Daniels? Do you care about that lie? Do you care about the lie that global warming is a Chinese hoax? That's a lie. He knows it's a lie. Everybody knows it's a lie.
UNKNOWN: But I must say.
MICHAELSON: I'm just curious. Will you answer the question, is there one Donald Trump lie that crosses the line for you?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do not agree with most of what Donald Trump has said about January the 6th. From the day it happened, to this moment right now and every day I have been on this network, I could not be more clear about what I think happened on January the 6th, what he did and what he has said.
MICHAELSON: Did he lose the election?
JENNINGS: He absolutely lost the election and now we've had three and a half years of absolute terrible. And that's exactly what happened.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: All right, guys.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: I guess it was me asking the question. I'm glad you answered.
PHILLIP: Everyone stick around for us.
DYSON: I thought we were having a conversation. Very clear.
PHILLIP: Coming up next, we've got more breaking news ahead. Floridians right now are evacuating as there is a monster, category five hurricane, taking aim right at the state. Kamala Harris is hitting Donald Trump though over his lies about the storms that have been coming the United States' way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:32]
PHILLIP: Tonight, more proof that politics is infecting everything. Right now, there is a hurricane, Hurricane Milton, on a path of pure devastation. Its target is now Florida, and it could be one of the most powerful storms in the Atlantic ever. But that state's governor and the vice president are now locked in a political squabble over what did or did not happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R) FLORIDA: I didn't know that she had called, so I'm not sure who they called that didn't call me. And their characterization of it was something that they did, wasn't anything that anybody in my office did in terms of saying that it was political.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: DeSantis -- they're pleading ignorance but Harris accuses the governor of pettiness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (D): You know, moments of crisis, if nothing else, should really be the moment that anyone who calls themselves a leader, says they're going to put politics aside and put the people first. People are in desperate need of support right now. And playing
political games with this moment in these crisis situations -- these are the height of emergency situations is utterly irresponsible and it is selfish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: We're back at the table here. Look, I mean, I think we are in a kind of dark place on this right now.
JENNINGS: I mean, she's attacking the governor of a state that's about to get lashed with one of the most historic hurricanes we've ever seen. Is she crazy? He did not ignore her call.
PHILLIP: I think she was talking -- just to be clear, she was talking broadly about the politicization of the storms.
JENNINGS: I think she was talking about Ron DeSantis. He did not ignore her call. And in fact, according to what I've read tonight, he actually spoke to the President of the United States.
PHILLIP: He did speak with President Biden.
JENNINGS: And he has -- he has said time and again that he and the federal government are working well together. So, who here is politicizing this?
MICHAELSON: Yes, I hate to agree with Scott on anything but I agree -- I agree in this case. I don't think, you know, I'm from Florida. I grew up in Tampa. Tampa's right -- right in the track right now. A lot of friends of mine have been evacuated. Others are kind of hunkering down. And I'm no fan of Ron DeSantis but he is doing what a governor should do.
I think this is a distraction that we shouldn't be paying attention to. If we want to attack Governor DeSantis around storms, we should attack the fact that he has banned state agencies from taking climate change into account when even making a policy. That's a decision that will really cost lives.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, but there is a politicization of storms, in general, happening right now. I mean, over the weekend or today, Trump tweeted on North Carolina -- "North Carolina has been virtually abandoned by Kamala. Drop her like she dropped you. Vote for President Donald Trump."
UNKNOWN: That's false.
PHILLIP: That is false.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
PHILLIP: Marjorie Taylor Greene is now, for whatever reason, saying, "Yes, they can control weather. It's ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it cannot be done." I don't know who "they" is but --
MADISSON GESIOTTO, FORMER RNC NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, we'd love -- we'd all love to know.
DYSON: The conspiracy theory is even worse. It hurt the people there who are most vulnerable. When you hear that a dam is breaking out and it's not, when you hear that another storm is approaching and it's a lie.
The fact is we can hardly distinguish between the conspiratorial character of so much of this political darkness to which you make reference and the kind of rejiggering of the landscape so that science is now subject to people's emotions, politics and ideology.
But I want to ask you one question seriously, because, you know, I want to resolve this with you putting your finger in my face. Let me finish, sir. Let me finish. Let me finish. You put your finger in my face and you were aggressive and you said you don't ask. Let me ask you a question, though.
JENNINGS: I don't.
DYSON: You don't ask me a question. I thought you told us, Abby, that we all should speak among each other, not wait for you, and if it's all right --
JENNINGS: You're going to ask me for my number after the show?
PHILLIP: Hang on. Scott and Michael.
JENNINGS: Brother, don't -- don't start.
PHILLIP: In the spirit of conversation at the table --
DYSON: This kind of ridiculousness --
PHILLIP: -- we're going to keep the conversation at the table. We're not going to have side chats because it's not helpful.
DYSON: I'm talking directly to you. I'm just talking about what happened on the show.
PHILLIP: There was another incident this weekend of an A.I. image being sent around. I think we have the image, right? Of a young child holding a dog on a boat. It was completely fake and being used to make. some kind of political point. But this is the new era that we are in which there is so much fake information. There is so much misinformation that's actually preventing people from getting the help that they need, making them think that the government is only giving them $750 checks and giving all the rest of the money to overseas, which is not the case.
AL FRANKEN (D) FORMER U.S. SENATOR, MINNESOTA: Yes, that's the $750 that you get for, you know, just supplies that you need -- some water and diapers and those kind of things.
[22:40:06]
But you get up to what, 41,250 or something like that if your house has been destroyed and you get that money from the government.
MICHAELSON: I'm glad you brought in this particular, the A.I. fake, because there's another kind of conspiracy theory going around in not just the sort of the fringe but really in the center of some of the right-wing media ecosystems that FEMA is out of money because money was diverted to pay for immigration, which is factually false.
And yet, you know, there is -- we do live in these media bubbles. And sometimes here on this network, we don't even want to surface some of these conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, millions of people are believing them.
PHILLIP: Yes.
MICHAELSON: So, I'm really glad that we're actually talking about it.
PHILLIP: I mean, I've seen it being spread online as if it is true. And it's just -- there's a lot going on in the world. There are some things that are not going well with the federal bureaucracy. But why can't we just stick to the facts as opposed to inventing things that aren't happening?
GESIOTTO: Well, I think in this case, the optics really do matter. And I think we're seeing that play out in real time when it comes to Kamala Harris, for example, tweeting, we're going to give $100 million to North Carolina to repair the roads, and then the same day tweeting that they're giving one and a half plus times that much to Lebanon.
While maybe that's just spending as well, a lot of people in North Carolina right now may not feel that way, as they may not ever be made whole again. And no, it's not the government's job to make you whole in every situation and every natural disaster.
But for people who are out there who have been impacted, who have maybe lost absolutely everything, the optics matter and they don't feel good about that. When they find out that Kamala Harris was filming this episode of "Call Her Daddy" with Alex Cooper, while they're literally maybe going to lose their lives because they haven't been rescued, they don't feel good about that.
PHILLIP: I take your point but I just think we should just be factual about what happened here.
GESIOTTO: Well, and factually, yes, the funds are different.
PHILLIP: Hang on, so yes.
GESIOTTO: Yes, I agree with you there.
PHILLIP: I mean, the Department of Defense budget is massive. It's many more times the size of all kinds of budgets in this country. That happens every day. And also, the vice president did not -- she went to North Carolina first before she taped this interview. Both candidates have been on the campaign trail while people have been trying to recover. It's not --
GESIOTTO: I'm just telling you that when you talk to people that are in North Carolina, this is how they feel.
PHILLIP: Right.
GESIOTTO: I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but the optics matter.
PHILLIP: Don't we have a responsibility to say what is actually true?
GESIOTTO: How they feel can be true. They have a right to feel that way.
PHILLIP: How do you -- how do you use, if Trump and Harris are both doing interviews, they're both campaigning, how do you then say that it is insensitive for Harris to do those things but not Trump?
JENNINGS: I actually agree with you that there's too much disinformation, misinformation, or things that are not factual swirling about the hurricane. I actually think the facts are bad enough. When the storm came ashore, Biden was at the beach and Harris was raising money. And that was on September 26th.
On September 27th, we had devastation in North Carolina. It wasn't until October the 2nd that the president mobilized the military. And it wasn't until the 5th that they mobilized 500 search and rescue out of the military.
So, I think -- I think there's two things going on. The immediate impacted people and what they need and what they can get. People need to consult their local officials and governors about that. But there is a conversation to be had here about spending priorities, yes.
PHILLIP: Yes.
JENNINGS: And also about presidential decision-making which in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of Republicans, were really, really slow.
PHILLIP: I think you're totally right about spending priorities. That's a big conversation. Hopefully, one day we will have that conversation. Everyone, hang tight. Coming up next for us is both candidates marked the anniversary of the October 7th attacks. How this issue is -- of the war, may ultimately impact this election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:59]
PHILLIP: A pause today on the campaign trail to remember an unholy day. October 7th, 2023 saw unspeakable acts of violence perpetrated against Jews by Hamas terrorists. October 7th, 2024 brings a question of how the United States should treat its Israeli allies as they open a new phase of this war, with fresh attacks against Hezbollah commanders inside of Beirut.
One year later, the divisions that have been opened up by this war are still stark. That is pretty evident by the fact that today, we saw all kinds of things unfolding on the streets, vigils, protests, even anti- Semitic hate. It's all playing out at the same time, almost as if it has not been a full year since this war has begun.
MICHAELSON: No, I mean, I am, you know, speaking kind of from the Jewish community for a moment. This is what we would call in Jewish tradition, the Yahrzeit, the one-year death anniversary of 1200 people, the largest mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust. And I can safely report and I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I can safely report that American Jews are still reeling from October 7th.
Even if the subsequent year of division had not taken place. Even if we all supported Israel's actions, even if Israel's actions weren't as extreme as many of -- many of us think they were, even if there hadn't been anti-Semitism, even if all of that hadn't happened, we would still be in a lot of pain over October 7th. And it's not resolved.
There are still hostages who are being held by Hamas. There are tens of thousands of Palestinians who have been killed and more who have been displaced. And the amount of heartbreak, you know, my caution is against weaponizing any of this for any political gain, whether that happens from Democrats or Republicans. And I really wish people would let us mourn for a day.
PHILLIP: I do think, yes, that's -- this day is still so fresh for so many Jewish Americans and also because of the rifts that it has created in relationships. Some of that is political, too. I mean, in the Democratic Party, that rift is still there and Vice President Harris is struggling to keep the party together. I mean, she met with Arab-American activists last week.
In "The New York Times" there's a quote from another activist who says, "I personally do not know anyone who would vote for Harris." This becomes -- it does become a political problem, as we are now 28 days before the election. Michigan is a key state in play.
FRANKEN: Michigan is and there is a large Palestinian population and a large Muslim population is there. And this is a state that is one of the battleground states -- one of the key battleground states. And I really believe that by Nasdaq, I mean, sorry.
PHILLIP: Are you worried, though, that not enough has been done to address this issue with those constituencies, while also trying to address what's happening with the state of Israel?
FRANKEN: It's hard to assuage people who have taken the side of, you know, basically of, not of Hamas, but who have taken the side of, you know, that there is nothing that Israel can do that they don't criticize.
MICHAELSON: I think --I think there needs to be a different messaging from the Democrats on this. The Republican message is clear, we stand with Israel. They're not counting on the Muslim vote or the Palestinian American vote in Michigan. The Democrat messaging is a lot more complicated. And it goes in different directions.
And there has to be a way, and I think Vice President Harris needs to lead on this in a way that she hasn't done, in which she actively understands the intense pain of any Palestinian American that they have to be feeling and really gets it.
And also makes the case that Donald Trump would be so much worse for this community in terms of Israeli annexation of the West Bank, in terms of Islamophobia, in terms of his jingoistic nationalism.
She needs to make the case not that she's okay for this community, because that's not a case that's going to win, but that politics is a kind of harm reduction and you have to choose the candidate who best reflects, who closer reflects the world in which you want to live.
DYSON: Yes, I think that, you know, the way in which the hurt and harm, the undeniable evil that was visited on October 7th has to be acknowledged in its own right, the anti-Semitism that is deeply entrenched in the culture, and the, as you already indicated, the compassion for 41,000 people who have died, many of them innocent women and children, in that fracas and how do we come together?
You know, during the civil rights movement, people praised a non- violent impulse to reinforce the humanity of all. And I think at this point, we've got to lead in that sense, both politically and ideologically, but especially in terms of human concern.
PHILLIP: All right, on that note, everyone stay with me. Coming up next, the panel will give us their night caps, including a bold prediction about the fate of Ted Cruz and a plea to Beyonce.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:23]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Jay, you're up.
MICHAELSON: I am issuing a public appeal to Beyonce and to Jay-Z and also to Taylor Swift to do a concert for Kamala. She needs the help. I've polled a bunch of friends for what we should call it. So far, the winner is all the single cat ladies. Getting behind Kamala Harris will be -- this is the coming together that we need. Let's have a concert and dare Donald Trump to do one with Ted Nugent.
PHILLIP: Okay. Go ahead, Madison.
GESIOTTO: Pennsylvania, big news coming out, which I think could ultimately determine the election. The vote by mail requests, the Democrat lead has shrunk by 35 percent. So, this is really big for Republicans in Pennsylvania -- will be very interesting.
This is, of course, the state that could determine the electoral college and who wins and becomes our next president of the United States and we'll be watching that. Republicans still not fully on board with voting by mail or early voting but I encourage Republicans who want to win to get out there and do it.
PHILLIP: All right. Al. FRANKEN: Well, when I was in the senate I used to say that I probably liked Ted Cruz more than most my colleagues like Ted Cruz and I hate Ted Cruz. And I think Texans -- Texans are there now and I think Colin Allred has a real shot there.
PHILLIP: All right, we'll see. Scott?
JENNINGS: Oh, shot or is he going to win?
PHILLIP: Scott -- Scott, you were laughing a little too hard at that one.
UNKNOWN: He's going to win.
JENNINGS: Well, you know, I work for Mitch McConnell. Okay, so, so over the weekend I thought Kamala Harris did something galactically tone deaf and really politically stupid. North Carolina is underwater, Hurricane Milton is bearing down on the coast of Florida and she took the time on Saturday to tweet about how we're sending $157 million in aid to Lebanon.
This follows on the weird idea and ultimately dumb idea that Joe Biden had to build a $230 million appear, which broke apart for us to deliver aid out there. This continuous use of your money to buy votes from a constituency that's not really on board with her yet, to me, ought to outrage every American.
PHILLIP: All right, Michael.
DYSON: Well, Vanderbilt, the Commodores beat the Crimson Tide, so we are exalting in that. We did tear the goalpost down and put it into the river.
PHILLIP: Oh my God.
DYSON: To be sure, accompanied by the police. I hope that if Tennessee State University does the same thing, we'll have an equal measure of support for those young people over there.
PHILLIP: Oh, wow. I had not seen that. All right, everyone. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you for watching News Nights Day of the Race. We've got "Laura Coates Live" coming up for you right now.
