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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Obama Returns to Trail as Democrats Worry Harris Stalling; Death Toll Rises in Florida After Milton, Nearly 3 Million Without Power; First Responders Race to Find Survivors After Storm Hits. V.P. Harris Spotlights Trump's Lies About Recovery Efforts in Storm States; CBS Airs Two Versions of Harris Answering the Same Question from Bill Whitaker. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 10, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the glass ceiling, Democrats fret political gravity is pulling Kamala Harris back to Earth.

Plus, Barack is back. The former president hits the trail and plays the hits --

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Get off your couch and vote.

PHILLIP: -- as the campaign calendar races toward November 5th.

And a blunt message from president to former president --

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Get a life, man.

PHILLIP: -- about life or death lies.

Live at the table, Lee McGowan, Marc Lotter, Nina Turner, T.W. Arrighi, and Brian Stelter.

With 25 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Philip in New York.

Let's get right to what America is talking about. Barack Obama is back on the campaign trail and he's making the case against Donald Trump. But before his guest feature in Pennsylvania, Obama made a surprise visit to Kamala Harris' campaign headquarters in Pittsburgh. It was there that he got candid, maybe a little too candid if you are in the vice president's inner circle tonight. He warned that Harris is underperforming him with black voters, and he had a message specifically for black men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Part of it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as president. And you're coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for it.

So, now, you're thinking about sitting out, or even supporting somebody who has a history of denigrating you, because you think that's a sign of strength, because that's what being a man is, putting women down? That's not exciting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: CNN Political Commentator Errol Louis is in our fifth seat for this conversation. Errol, I guess he knew the cameras were there. It was an unscheduled stop, but that message was so pointed. In addition to him making it very clear, Kamala Harris is not doing what she needs to do with this core Democratic constituency.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. And although he is asking her, let's be clear, to go over a very high hurdle. Barack Obama got historic levels of black voter registration and turnout and support, and he did it twice. It was almost inevitable that it was going to swing more toward the long-term average of a handful of black voters supporting Republican candidates.

PHILLIP: Can I interrupt you for just a moment, just to show you something here? Because we went back, looked at 2020 exit polls, Biden got 92 percent of the black vote. Right now, according to Quinnipiac, this is in Pennsylvania, according to Quinnipiac, Harris is at 78. It's a big gap in the state right now, and that can be closed because Biden is not Barack Obama.

LOUIS: Or Biden is not -- well, he was Obama's running mate, certainly some spill over there, but she -- you cannot ask of every black candidate in the post-Obama era. You've got to come up with 92 percent of the black vote every time. That is just not a reasonable assumption. If the margins are as tight as they're likely to be in this race, that's going to cause you problems in Pittsburgh and in Philadelphia and in Detroit and in Milwaukee and in Atlanta and in all of the swing states. And so they're going to have to come up with a strategy.

Now, Barack Obama is trying one strategy, trying to sort of connect with some of the black male voters who they think have been drifting away and are likely to drift away in these last 26 days. I'm not sure that's the right message. They have to try something.

PHILLIP: I mean, it's a lot of pressure. This is not a, let me, a nice message. This is a very stern message.

LEIGH MCGOWAN, SOCIAL MEDIA HOST AND CONTENT CREATOR, POLITICSGIRL: Let me ask you a question, Abby and Nina. Let me say, I find it very interesting that we're trying to reach out to white men, we're trying to reach out to black men. The people whose rights are really on the ballot right now are women. And we're begging all these men to pay attention to us and to care enough about this election, to vote, to come out, to support us.

[22:05:03]

I feel like Barack going on the campaign trail right now makes perfect sense, of course, right? He's a top surrogate for Democrats. He should be out there doing the work right now. I think it's so amazing to me that with women's rights on the line, we're spending so much time focusing on making sure men care.

PHILLIP: Because men -- I don't know, it's because men are the problem right now.

FMR. STATE SEN. NINA TURNER (D-OH): Men should care. I mean, women --

PHILLIP: And, by the way, Governor Walz, according to Politico, is going to be going out on a men tour, literally a tour of media to appeal to men.

TURNER: They need to appeal to the needs of the voters. And so when I was a delegate for President Obama in both of his elections in Ohio, right now the Vice President is down 11 points in Ohio, even though I fully expect President Trump to take Ohio, as he did twice. But to be down 11 points compared to President Biden, that is a problem.

But this other issue I want to bring up is a problem too. Why are black men being lectured to? Why are black men being belittled in ways that no other voting group? Now, a lot of love for former President Obama, but for him to single out black men is wrong. And some of the black men that I have talked to have their reasons why they want to vote a different way. And even if some of us may not like that, we have to respect it.

So, unless president Barack Obama is going to go out and lecture every other group of men from other identity groups, my message for Democrats is don't bring it here to black men who, by and large, don't vote much differently from black women. And as a politician, we should be trying to get all voters to vote. And, hopefully, there are a few good men out there who do care about the stripping away of some of women's bodily autonomy. But this is wrong for President Obama. It is a wrong course for the Harris-Walz campaign to lay at the feet of black men when they have their reasons.

In 2020, the vice president was labeled a cop, as we know.

PHILLIP: But do you think -- sorry to interrupt you Nina, but do you think he's right, that one of the reasons is because they don't like the idea of a woman in the White House.

TURNER: It might be some sickness and black men are socialized in the same society as any other man. So, yes, is misogyny may be a part of it? But, again, is President Obama and is the Harris-Walz campaign going to lecture other male groups in the same way that they're lecturing black men? I don't think so.

PHILLIP: This is not just about -- it's not just about Pennsylvania. It's not just about men. It sounds like there's a concern that there's a broad problem for Vice President Harris with the blue wall. It's basically according to the poll of polls, no clear leader, a tied race essentially in all three of these battleground states. You know, I don't know that this is because Trump has run a great campaign, but, I mean --

MCGOWAN: I don't think it's that.

PHILLIP: I mean, maybe he has, maybe he hasn't, but he has run -- he has struggled against Kamala Harris in this early stage, but he's still kept this race pretty tied and maybe has made some inroads in the last couple of weeks.

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Absolutely, he has. Vice President Harris' high watermark was about a week and a half after the convention. It's slowly been trickling down. That Quinnipiac poll showing the vice president down in Michigan and Wisconsin sent alarm bells throughout every Democrat office in the country.

But I want to say this, the blue wall is cracking and black men are just one part of a broader puzzle that she hasn't been able to reach. Now, to her credit, she hasn't been running for very long. This campaign's new. This is a new experiment of replacing somebody late in the cycle. So, okay, we'll give her that. However, she's struggling with union voters. The two of the biggest unions ever didn't endorse her. She's struggling with Muslim-Americans in Michigan. According to care zone numbers, she's struggling with Hispanics in California.

She's not expected to remake the Obama coalition. That's impossible. That's a one in a million, especially given the short timeframe, but she has a lot of bigger problems, and that's why you see Tammy Baldwin panicking about being down more.

PHILLIP: Yes. Here's Debbie Dingell. People need to see the real Kamala Harris. This is what she told Axios. They need to let her get in the union halls and just talk to people. Whatever you think about Trump, he's personable.

MARC LOTTER, FORMER STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that's one of the things. I mean, he -- obviously, from 2016 all the way 2024, he comes off as a fighter. He comes off as a fighter for whatever issue matters to you. I think that's one of his big appeals. One of the challenges I think for the vice president's campaign is that I don't think Barack Obama is the right surrogate to go out there and do it.

Now, he's beloved by Democrats, he's beloved generally by Americans, but he's never had coattails. Aside from 2008 when he first got elected, Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats in state and federal offices during his eight years. He was the sitting president when Donald Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin with Barack Obama campaigning in Michigan and in Pennsylvania, and it didn't change the narrative.

[22:10:05]

So, I just don't know if he has the coattails. He'll fire up the base, but is he going to get anybody new to come out and vote.

LOUIS: You know, the other mistake that they're making is focusing too much on personality. I mean, Kamala Harris has got an appealing personality and we're all getting to know her but this is the incumbent party. She was part of an administration. They have a decent record to run on. You could say to black men, for example, $7 billion for historically black colleges and universities. You know, we've done certain things. We've had an economy where we've had not one, not two, but over 36 record highs in the stock market this year. If you've got a retirement account, that is helping you.

You can go out and explain these things, or you can sort of say, well, let's try and segment this, and let's try and make sure there's some sort of personal --

PHILLIP: Well this is the question between, like -- I don't know. Look, okay, let me, this is Jonathan Martin in Politico. He says, the vibes are the point. The voters don't want white papers. They crave reassurance that Harris isn't a lefty. I think this is a divide that is real. Like, I mean, do they want the policy papers? Do they want the record? Or do they just want her to prove to them one way or another that she can do the job, that she understands them, that she has authenticity? I mean --

TURNER: That's it, Abby. Authenticity is the key. And it seems to now that the vice president, whoever's staffing her, they have her straight on these talking points and she is going to have to let them go. That is the main thing that I hear as I travel the country, the authenticity.

Now, in terms of some Republicans, especially on the federal level, painting this is if she's going to be a lefty, in the swing states, some of the top issues, 63 percent of swing state voters believe in Medicare for all. So, why not have that conversation about lifting people up?

PHILLIP: I mean --

MCGOWAN: But I feel like we are having that conversation.

PHILLIP: I mean, that would be a position that she would be completely pilloried for. I mean, she was already attacked for not supporting Medicare for all.

TURNER: Does she want to win the -- talk to the voters about what they care about. They care about healthcare. They care about the economy. We can't pretend like people are not suffering just because Democrats are in office. Talk to people's heart and soul. So, either she going to side with the people who won't like her anyway, or she going to side with what the American people want.

And the majority of swing state voters care about that. They want to see a wealth tax and I'm talking about the swing states that she needs to win. This is not me saying it. This is the polling.

MCGOWAN: I feel like I'm watching a different candidate than everyone at this table, like I do see her being authentic. I do see her as being a fighter. You're saying everyone looks at Donald Trump and he's a fighter? I don't see that from Donald Trump anymore. He looks angry and sad and like he's just -- he's petty at this point. This is his third time running for president. She does look like a fighter to me. She does tell me about the issues. I can read all of her things.

So I find it really interesting, I'm having like Hillary Clinton flashbacks, like she's just not personable enough, and like maybe I don't want to have a beer with her. And can she really lead? I'm having like massive flashbacks.

PHILLIP: I mean, she literally had a beer on a late night show this weekend.

LOTTER: This should have been a Yuengling, though. If you want to win Pennsylvania, it should have been a Yuengling.

MCGOWAN: She didn't get to drink right. We should --

(CROSSTALKS)

TURNER: Listen, I have not had one person. I just came from Oakland, California, talking to people. I've not had one person say to me, if Vice President Harris just had a beer, my God, that would win me over. People in the bubble need to get a clue.

And I understand what you said. There is a misogyny here. I would not ever doubt that any woman that runs, but this is the point. Speak to the needs and the heart of the people. When I say not authentic, I mean, be less guarded, be -- I mean, just come out there and talk, answer the questions directly. Those are the kinds of things that people want to hear.

LOTTER: The biggest problem that she has on the authenticity side is that her campaign slogan is a new way forward. And when she's asked, what would you do differently in the last four years, nothing. That's not a new way forward. That's more of the same.

ARRIGHI: The smacks of Ted Kennedy in 1980, why do you want to be president? Well, 90 seconds of a word salad, then nothing.

And to the authenticity, Donald Trump has been the exact same person since we met him in the 80s. Everyone knows who he is. He's a baked in commodity. He goes on Andrew Schultz and says whatever he wants. He screws around with the guys. Harris, I'm sure she has the ability as a person, I don't know her personally, so I will not say that. But I do know that the time she has gone out there and said, I own a Glock, that was like Mitt Romney saying, I'm a hunter.

(CROSSTALKS)

TURNER: Remember the binder full of women?

MCGOWAN: But here's the thing. You just said it, it did look ridiculous.

ARRIGHI: No, no, Looked ridiculous to critique that slipped. Mitt Romney would be a great president.

MCGOWAN: I'm not denying that Mitt Romney would have been a fine president. What I'm saying is, you're saying -- you're talking about Kamala Harris. You're saying, we know who Donald Trump is. He's been exactly the same guy since the 80s. And I look at him and I go, absolutely unfit to lead. From the 80s, he was unfit to lead. He was unfit to lead when he was president. He's unfit to lead when he ran again, and he's unfit to lead now. So, I know exactly who Donald Trump is, and I feel like she is telling us who she is.

[22:15:00]

And she is suggesting new policies. There are new policies that are talking about Medicare for home care. That will help so many people. That has never been a suggestion before.

ARRIGHI: So, does she need a new comms team?

MCGOWAN: No, I, I'm not saying she needs a new comms team.

ARRIGHI: Because, clearly, something's broken, right?

MCGOWAN: Well, that's what -- the message is here, like I don't think that that is --

TURNER: The voters get to this. Please, colleague, the voters get to decide. As an elected, as somebody who was run for office, served in office, it doesn't matter necessarily what I think. It matters what the people I need to get to vote for me to think. It doesn't matter what the people in the bubble think.

MCGOWAN: But do women in this country --

TURNER: It matters.

MCGOWAN: The women in this country, they think that they will have rights under one president and not rights under the other.

TURNER: Not all women. Another thing, I have not heard any women -- I think women want to know that that access to reproductive health, which abortion is, is there, but women, unless they need it in the moment, I haven't heard any woman say, oh my God, if I could just -- the abortion thing. That is not it. You know what I mean?

MCGOWAN: You haven't heard any woman say that? That sounds familiar (ph) to me.

TURNER: Well, let me tell you something. You and I -- let me tell you something. You and I may not be navigating the same circles. What I am not saying is that women don't care about it, I'm saying when I am in rooms with those women, they're talking about the economy, how to put food on the table.

MCGOWAN: Sure.

TURNER: That kind of thing. They want to know that that abortion is still there.

PHILLIP: We got to hit pause on the conversation, a very interesting one. Errol Louis, thank you very much for being here. Everyone else stick around. We've got much more ahead.

Coming up next, we're going to take you to Florida where the death toll is now rising after Hurricane Milton and first responders are now racing to find survivors.

Plus, frustrations over Donald Trump's lies about the storm response, they're hitting a boiling point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Get a life, man. Help these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:20:00]

PHILLIP: Tonight, trapped, Hurricane Milton stranding millions of people in the dark and literally stranding others in life or death situations. Just look at this one boy clinging to a piece of fence until he could get pulled from the shoulder-high floodwaters.

CNN is deployed all across the front lines of this devastating storm. Randi Kaye is in Siesta Key on Florida's coast where there's extensive flooding and debris. Brian Todd is in the east coast in Fort Pierce, which is one of the hardest hit areas from multiple tornadoes that were generated by this massive storm.

Brian, let's start with you. What are you seeing there.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Abby, scenes of massive carnage here in St. Lucie County. I'm at a gas station just north of Fort Pierce here on Turnpike Feeder Road. And just take a look at the wreckage that I'm standing in the middle of. This all used to be an island, part of like a roof of an island at a gas station. And within a couple of seconds, all of this got picked up, carried about 20 yards and dumped right here.

And it really gives you a sense of what it's going to take to clean up some of these areas, this huge metal truss that I'm standing in the middle of. This weighs several tons. It's going to take several cranes just to move this out of here. Not to mention these pieces here, like this piece of the roof right here and this piece of equipment right here, you've got to cut up these pieces in order to get them out and it's not without danger.

It's a little bit dangerous just for me to kind of navigate my way back here. There are a lot of shards of glass, two by fours, nails, metal beams. So, for the people who are going to come here and actually get this uprooted and get it cleared out, it is dangerous and really tough work. Now, imagine what this is like if your home was in this state. And on that front, I can give you an update. I spoke to Keith Pearson, the sheriff of St. Lucie County, not long ago. The update that he's got from the one village that was so hard-hit by these tornadoes, it's called the Spanish Lakes Country Club Village, and it's a series of modular mobile homes for people 55 and over. Six people are dead, at least, from the tornadoes that struck that neighborhood. More than 50 people are injured, he told me.

And he said that, as of this evening, they are still going through that neighborhood and trying to find people who are missing. There are a lot of people who are unaccounted for. He did not give me a figure on that. He couldn't, because he said they're still sifting through scenes like this in that neighborhood. Abby?

PHILLIP: Brian Todd, thank you very much.

CNN's Randi Kaye is in Siesta Key, a barrier island near Sarasota, on the side of Florida where this hurricane came ashore. Randi, what are you seeing there tonight?

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Abby. This is where Hurricane Milton actually made landfall on Siesta Key, where we are. Just let me show you (INAUDIBLE) being here. This is one of the residences and you can see there, there's all those trees that are in the front yard. We understand that there were no trees originally there and trees did not fall during Hurricane Helene when that came through here a couple of weeks ago. You also have this planter here that certainly was not meant to be in front of the gates of that home.

There's also some standing water along the way, certainly along a lot of the streets that we've been driving. But let me show you this other house here across the street. These people moved here just a month ago, we understand, from Texas. And they lived through Hurricane Helene. Their windows of their home were already blown out, and all of this debris in their yard, we understand, was actually neatly stacked up after Hurricane Helene. So, this is exactly what the power of the winds do. It's what the big concern was. There's a suitcase in the yard. The mattresses are all back there. There's a lot of personal belongings, there's a television on the ground and some family photos.

But as we drove in, we can show you some video of what it was like as we got to Siesta Key. A lot of the roads were blocked, but they were letting residents in once search and rescue teams came in.

[22:25:03]

They realized that it was safe here. There was a lot of standing water. We found there was one tree that was more than 100 years old, according to the homeowner that had been blown down on the front yard of their home.

But I did talk to some of the homeowners here, Abby. And they're frustrated. They're angry. They're scared. There were a lot of tears. And they just feel as though they've spent so much time watching the radar, wondering if they're going to get hit, wondering if they're in the track, and they're tired of it. These are low-lying homes and cottages and they just don't think that they can survive the hurricanes here anymore.

One woman said to me that you have to have a fortress in order to survive the violent weather that they've experienced in the last couple of weeks. She's moving to Los Angeles with her husband this week. They are getting out of town.

So that's what these people are experiencing. This is normally a very happy community. They have dolphins here. They have green parrots. And now they're seeing just debris everywhere from this one-two punch from these Hurricanes Helene and Milton.

PHILLIP: Yes, it's a beautiful part of the country, but two hurricanes in the span of two weeks is tough for anybody to withstand.

Randi Kaye, thank you very much for that.

And just in tonight, both Kamala Harris and Barack Obama are blasting Donald Trump over his lies about the storm response, as aid workers are now getting death threats because of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The idea of intentionally trying to deceive people in their most desperate and vulnerable moments. And my question is, when did that become okay?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:30:52]

ABBY PHILLIP: Tonight, a pylon over Donald Trump's storm lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (D): Sadly, we have seen over the last two weeks since Hurricane Helene and now in the immediate aftermath of Milton, where people are playing political games, suggesting that -- that resources and support is only going to certain people based on a political agenda. And this is just not accurate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Kamala Harris again spotlighting the Republican nominee, not telling the truth about what's happening on the ground in storm-hurt states, like, for example, this comment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): They're dying and they're getting no help from our federal government because they have no money, because their money's been spent on people that should not be in our country. It's been a terrible response from the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: The president, Joe Biden, is also blaming Trump for putting people in real danger because of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Mr. President Trump -- former President Trump, get a life, man. Help these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Brian Stelter is here in our fifth seat now. Brian, you know, it's all of that plus Trump taking it further. He's using a storm and basically politicking. Let's play what he posted on X today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hopefully, on January 20th, you're going to have somebody that's really going to help you and help you like never before. Because help is on the way. Together, we will rebuild, we will recover, and we will come back stronger, bigger, better than ever before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I don't know that -- am I wrong? This feels like a different level of, you know, politicians behaving badly, so to speak. I mean, to use a storm to basically say vote for me not for the other guy?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: And suggesting they have to wait till January for actual real relief when we know that relief is actually on the ground right now in Florida and the Carolinas. This week has been really striking happy because misinformation reporters, people that cover this problem for a living -- we feel like we've given, you know, that we've lost it.

Like, there's nothing more to do. Like, it's become so extreme, so out of control. So, many Americans have just lost the plot and lost connection to reality. And you see that in these comments, I think, about the hurricanes with Trump.

LEIGH MCGOWAN, SOCIAL MEDIA HOST AND CONTENT CREATOR, "POLITICSGIRL": If I may, I think this is the time that we have to really seriously start talking about legislation when it comes to lying on the media. We have to start thinking about a fairness doctrine for the new millennium because we shouldn't be able to just lie to the American public.

Because you should be able to trust your president. You should be able to trust your news stations. You should be able to trust the people that are in leadership positions. They shouldn't just be able to lie to you for profit or power.

STELTER: But who decides? Who decides? MCGOWAN: Well, this is -- this is the something--

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: I'm all for the truth but we tried that twice.

MCGOWAN: No. Well, we're going to have to try it again because we didn't have the internet before. We didn't have the internet before. And sometimes you need legislation. It is very important.

ARRIGHI: We didn't have radios before they did it the second time.

MCGOWAN: No, but you still need to do it because this is clearly not sustainable. We cannot carry on with the President saying that the immigrants are coming in and slitting your throat in your kitchen-- absolutely, completely untrue. We cannot say that FEMA is not on the ground when they are.

You can't say we gave all the money away to the migrants when that's not true. Because people are going to get genuinely upset as they should because that's a terrible thing if that was happening, except it's not. And the President should not be able to say that.

The person running for president should not be able to say that. And so, I do think that it is essential that we start thinking about how do we solve some of these problems because it is unsustainable for us to live in not reality, which is where we are living now.

ARRIGHI: It's a very concerning reality in my opinion.

MCGOWAN: What is a concerning reality?

ARRIGHI: That much censorship on people's talk. For example, could you debate FEMA is a big government agency?

MCGOWAN: Okay.

ARRIGHI: Huge -- does a bunch of different stuff. Can you talk about how they allocate money? Is that a proper debate to have in the public forum?

PHILLIP: I don't think that's what she's talking about.

ARRIGHI: No, hold on, hold on. That's not what I'm saying. Hold on, hold on.

PHILLIP: Sure, but that's not what she's talking about.

ARRIGHI: Sure.

PHILLIP: Yes.

ARRIGHI: But my point is where -- who draws the line and like you said, who is the arbiter?

STELTER: That's the problem.

ARRIGHI: I must have said that's the problem.

MCGOWAN: But it's a question that might have -- no. There's a question that might have an answer. You asked me about FEMA. I would say the person we should talk to about FEMA is someone who is an expert in that department, not say me.

[22:35:03]

ARRIGHI: Okay, okay.

MCGOWAN: Right?

ARRIGHI: I'll give you another one. I'll give you another one.

MCGOWAN: We need to have experts.

ARRIGHI: I'll give you another one. I'll give you another one. If somebody said, if this storm hit Charlotte or Palm Beach, not the hollers of Western North Carolina, I think the response would be different. Is that a lie?

STELTER: It's an opinion.

ARRIGHI: Maybe not.

STELTER: But my five-year-old knows it. You could say, I play a game with my kids. Fact, opinion, or lie.

ARRIGHI: Again, who's deciding?

STELTER: They know the difference.

ARRIGHI: Who's deciding? If you're deciding, who knows? I don't know.

STELTER: That's why I think it's a worthwhile combination.

PHILLIP: Hang on, guys. One second here. Hang on, guys. Go ahead.

MARC LOTTER, FORMER STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: This is as old as politics itself. We have been doing this at the state, the local, the federal levels at the beginning of time. Every mayor candidate, governor's candidate says, you're spending $100 million to build a super stadium for a poor pro sports team while our police and teachers need these areas.

UNKNOWN: It's different.

PHILLIP: Guys, hold on a second. Everyone, hold on a second.

UNKNOWN: We also blame people. I blame mayors for not --

PHILLIP: Hold on a second. This is not what we're talking about. It's really just not. I mean, actually, it's actually not that hard to figure out. Trump says that they are not getting help in Republican areas. That is just false. It's just false.

MCGOWAN: And you can prove it with evidence.

PHILLIP: It's not an opinion. It's just a provably false thing. So, let's just agree.

UNKNOWN: Trump is lying.

PHILLIP: Can we agree?

: I mean, he's lying.

PHILLIP: Can we agree that that's a lie?

LOTTER: I would say, what do the people think?

PHILLIP: Hey, hang on, hang on, hang on, just one second.

LOTTER: This is a lot like the economic argument we always have.

PHILLIP: So, so--

LOTTER: Oh, inflation's down. I don't feel like it that way.

PHILLIP: Marc, Marc, hold on. Are people in Republican areas getting help from the government right now? Yes or no?

LOTTER: State, federal, local, yes.

PHILLIP: Okay, so then, if you tell me that it's true that they're getting help but people feel like they're not, is it important for you to repeat the feeling that is not actually true or is it important to repeat the feeling?

LOTTER: Well, no, if you are a victim of that storm and you don't feel like you've gotten enough support or help --

PHILLIP: Okay, but it's not -it is not true.

LOTTER: -- that's a real thing to be able to say and to run off.

PHILLIP: That's-- Trump is running on a lie that people are not getting help because they are Republicans. That's not true.

MCGOWAN: But also, they feel that they're not getting help because they're being told by their president that they're not getting help.

STELTER: The propaganda machine, that's that.

MCGOWAN: Yes, exactly.

STELTER: And that's a big part of the problem.

MCGOWAN: I feel this way because you're telling me this.

NINA TURNER (D) FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: There's another angle to that. So, when Brian talked about children, right, we teach our children integrity, honesty, respect. STELTER: Yes, my kids get it. We used to. So, we send them to their

room if they're old enough, you know, they get some type of punishment. We need to send Trump to his room and not to the White House on this. Now, there's a difference between opinion and fact.

Now, what he could have said is that people feel as though they're not getting enough help. But to say that they're not getting help at all is a lie. And also, he needs to check his Republican colleagues because when the Congress passed to give more money to FEMA to the tune of $20 billion, which they got last time, Republicans in Congress provided zero votes.

So, President Trump could have said, Brian, your point was like, yes, we got to wait till January. He could have called up his posse and said, I need you all to get some votes to help get people some relief. But he wants to lie. Some things he just can't lie. This is very clear.

But people are suffering. It's not just because of President Trump. On "The Breakfast Club," Abby, a caller called in and poured out their heart to "The Breakfast Club" host, Charlamagne and company and said, I feel like I'm going to die. My government is not doing enough for me. To give people $750 is not enough.

If I'm in the middle of the ocean drowning, I don't want to hear a debate between President Biden telling Trump to do better and Trump telling President Biden, go away and run away. I want to know that you're going to come and save me. Multiple things can be true at once. So, it's not just a feeling.

It's bananas to think that it's just a feeling just because President Trump is saying it. He is lying that nothing is happening, but we could do more. And you know what a national security crisis is? It's not just giving more money to the military machine, it's giving money to save the lives of people in this country.

PHILLIP: All right, one more thing -- one more thing on this, because if we were going to talk about politics in this, the headline this week had been that Kamala Harris called Ron DeSantis. Ron DeSantis didn't pick up the call, okay? DeSantis denies that happened. But here is Biden responding to a question about that very thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Mr. President, does Governor DeSantis need to take Vice President Harris' calls?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (D): All I can tell you is I'm talking to Governor DeSantis. He's been very gracious. He's thanked me for all we've done. He knows what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, Biden did not go there. He didn't back up. He didn't back her up on it. And I think that it is a fair question to ask -- whoever wants to take this. Why make this an issue? TURNER: No governor is calling the vice president.

ARRIGHI: Because she wants to show leadership as a vice president, which she can't because it's not her job to do.

[22:40:00]

The President's the commander in chief. He's actually showing great leadership.

MCGOWAN: I love hearing you say it's not her job because everyone's like --

ARRIGHI: Wait a second. Let me explain my answer for a second.

MCGOWAN: Why hasn't she fixed the border yet? Why hasn't she done this?

ARRIGHI: Because she claimed to have ownership on the issue of migration.

MCGOWAN: I'm just thinking she never claimed her.

ARRIGHI: Okay, wait a second.

STELTER: Whether it's Harris or Biden, they're the wrong messenger about disinformation. Biden is not the right messenger to say, get a life Trump, you're lying.

TURNER: That's right.

STELTER: He's not the right messenger. That's why I think --

PHILLIP: Why do you say that?

STELTER: Because nobody believes him or needs to believe him. The people who are being fed these lies will never believe President Biden.

PHILLIP: They're just going to listen to him because it's a lie.

STELTER: There's a space, unfortunately, there's an info space where there's no trusted source for what is real, and that is why these misinformation experts are at their wits end right now.

MCGOWAN: Yes and that's unsustainable for the country.

PHILLIP: Okay, go ahead, Nina.

TURNER: I was just going to say, this is exhausting. Again, why don't we send her to people? I can't - I can't even take this anymore. The -- it's not in the vice president's purview. This was an unforced error for her to go at, and I am no fan of DeSantis. But he don't have to talk to her, no governor does. They talk to the President of the United States of America. And even if you support Harris, people have to step back and say, come

on, Madam Vice President, whoever on your team told you to do that, that was the wrong move to make. Let the President handle it with the governors and don't make this an issue.

PHILLIP: I guess what Leigh's point was, just the last thing before we got to go. I think what Leigh's point was, and maybe it's correct, is that Republicans are at the same time blaming her for --

MCGOWAN: And they shouldn't be.

PHILLIP: -- the response. They're saying that she is responsible and also Trump saying, oh, why was she on a late-night television show when there was a storm coming. Meanwhile, he's tweeting about 60 minutes, which we'll talk about later.

STELTER; But he's not in office right now.

ARRIGHI: He's not in office. She is. She's part of the administration, but she's not the one coordinating with governors. That's the job of the executive to do it. And by the way, I'm old enough to remember George W. Bush getting killed for his response to storms. I'm old enough to remember Trump getting killed for storms. It's not new. Harris wants a chance to show leadership and she's injecting herself clearly against the White House's wishes.

PHILLIP: All right everyone, hang on for us. Coming up next, Donald Trump's obsession with Kamala Harris' "60 Minutes" interview, despite his own avoidance of certain types of media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:46:39]

PHILLIP: One question, two answers, and what Donald Trump says is a scandal. To Trump, what CBS considers normal editing is evidence of a conspiracy to cover up for Kamala Harris. So, here's what he is talking about here. CBS aired two versions of Harris answering the same question from Bill Whitaker. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL WHITAKER, CBS "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: But it seems that Prime Minister Netanyahu is not listening.

HARRIS: Well, Bill. The work that we have done has resulted in a number of movements in that region by Israel that were very much prompted by or a result of many things including our advocacy for what needs to happen in the region.

WHITAKER: But it seems that Prime Minister Netanyahu is not listening.

HARRIS: We are not going to stop pursuing what is necessary for the United States to be clear about where we stand on the need for this war to end. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, is it a scandal? Or is this just what, I mean, you've worked for a vice president, you've worked with all these networks on interviews.

LOTTER: I also have a --

PHILLIP: Interviews get edited.

LOTTER: I also, well, no, I also was a broadcast journalism major and spent the first 15 years of my life in a television newsroom. That's inappropriate unless, Bill Whitaker followed the first answer with Madam Vice President, I asked you about Benjamin Netanyahu not doing what you're saying and that was his answer.

If he had another question and then put that answer with the first one then that is, I would say I don't get to, I'll trust you Brian. I'll do it for you.

STELTER: No, I think the CBS --

LOTTER: That's journalistic malpractice.

STELTER: I think the CBS editing was a problem and it's notable that CBS is not commenting. They're not trying to defend this mistake. I think it was probably a mistake. One crew was working on Sunday editing the clip, another crew was working on a different day.

It seems to me like an innocent mistake, but it's a problem. The bigger problem is that the former president said today, CBS should lose its license and so should all other broadcast stations because they're all just as corrupt. That's an autocrat.

PHILLIP: So - so --

STELTER: That's not a Democrat. That's an autocrat.

PHILLIP: Yes.

STELTER: He wants to strip stations from their licenses, never happened in the history of the United States.

MCGOWAN: Yes, I agree with -- I agree. I think that's the bigger problem. That's how dictators talk. That's how authoritarian starts. When you come in as an authoritarian leader, the first thing you do is get rid of the free process.

LOTTER: But in the last segment, you just said that we need censorship.

STELTER: And we are so used to it. We are so --

MCGOWAN: I didn't say we need censorship.

LOTTER: You just said censorship. So -- MCGOWAN: -- I said we needed legislation to stop the lies.

LOTTER: Which is censorship.

MCGOWAN: No. That isn't what I said. I said we need to rethink how we do legislation so that we can't constantly lie to people.

STELTER: And CBS didn't lie.

LOTTER: Which requires censorship.

STELTER: CBS didn't lie. I think CBS screwed up. They would say they didn't. I think CBS screwed up.

MCGOWAN: Yes.

ARRIGHI: We had an answer that was included in my second --

STELTER: The federal -- the FCC chair today came out very strongly and said this is undemocratic. This is against the first amendment because Trump several times now has called for licenses against NBC and CBS and other networks to all be revoked.

PHILLIP: So, what about, okay, let me play something because back in June, I believe, Donald Trump was on "Fox and Friends" and he had his answer edited by that show team. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What?

RACHEL CAMPOS-DUFFY, "FOX AND FRIENDS" CO-HOST: Would you declassify the Epstein files?

TRUMP: Yes. Yes, I would.

PETE HEGSETH, "FOX AND FRIENDS" CO-HOST: Attorney General, what are you, I mean we talked about how you fix the DOJ, how you bring justice back to this country.

[22:50:00]

CAMPOS-DUFFY: Would you declassify the Epstein files?

TRUMP: Yes, yes, I would.

CAMPOS-DUFFY: All right.

TRUMP: I guess I would. I think that less so because, you know, you don't know. You don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there because there's a lot of phony stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I also think that was also an innocent mistake by Fox. PHILLIP: I mean, I don't know. I mean, here's the thing. All I'm

saying is like it has happened to him and in that case, it was done in a way to make him sound more definitive about something that is important to the base than he actually was in the interview. So, who gets to have their interviews edited?

TURNER: I mean, if you live in a glass house, I mean, that's what's happening right now. To me, it erodes America's belief or Americans' belief in institutions. And so as long as President Trump continues to comport himself like this, want to get rid of the fourth estate and just run everything, he is further eroding faith in institutions, which I think has been eroding for several decades now. He's just adding to it.

MCGOWAN: Well, Mina is completely right, honestly. It has been eroding for several decades. And I think the thing is, is that people often forget that the First Amendment isn't just freedom of speech. It's freedom to have practice your own religion, freedom from other people's religions, freedom to assemble, freedom of the press. That's all the First Amendment. And we often just talk about freedom of speech, but it's actually the important parts were all in there and we forget about those parts.

PHILLIP: I know you had something to say, T.W., real quick.

ARRIGHI: Yes, not a fan of taking anyone's license away, not a fan of editing clips, I understand you have to do it for time, yada yada. I do think those two are a bit different though, I do. His first statement was, yes. And then he said, well, you know what it impacts on us, but yes, that's what he said.

In her answer, she gave 90 seconds of a word salad, which was either uh-oh, what was I supposed to say? Or uh-oh, I don't know how to answer it, meandering until she got her thought and got it into a 10- second clip. That's more important.

PHILLIP: We do have to go, but I mean --

STELTER: I just hope there's no more word salads after this year. Because I've heard a lot of them, Trump and Harris this year, we just ban all word salads next year. Legislation.

LOTTER: I agree with you. I agree with you. I don't know what the dressing you put on it.

STELTER: No more word salads.

MCGOWAN: We're going to ban the word salad.

PHILLIP: All right, everyone, stay with me. Coming up next, our panel is going to give us their night caps, including a shout out to Detroit that it might not want.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:56:53] PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Nina.

TURNER: I want to shout out the College Democrats of America. They've been doing a tremendous job. They have to recruit on the campuses, which has become increasingly hard because students are more pro- peace, anti-war.

But the College Dems of America have been holding strong and putting their opinions out there and they are a great reflection for the Democratic Party, much in the spirit and the tradition of younger voters before them. And some of those voters, especially Gen Z, they were only two years old when President Obama was in office. Think about that.

PHILLIP: It's a whole different world.

TURNER: It's a whole different world.

PHILLIP: Yes, it's amazing. All right, Marc.

LOTTER: All right, I'll use you as a segue, Nina. Then whatever the young people are doing, Gretchen Whitmer did this video, I think it was on TikTok, where she gets on one knee and is feeding food. It was a Dorito on camera to this young person, and then she gives this weird look to the -- to politicians, regardless of your partisanship, please don't, don't try to be cool and young.

PHILLIP: So, okay, I feel like I must offer some --

MCGOWAN: It's a hot take.

PHILLIP: -- like a real judgment. It was, it's technically, it's some kind of meme, but I mean, it's a little -- could we agree on that?

STELTER: We can agree on that. We do all love Doritos.

LOTTER: I love Doritos.

PHILLIP: Okay. Yes, but it is a meme. It's just that certain memes, we don't need to repeat.

UNKNOWN: No.

PHILLIP: Leigh.

MCGOWAN: Okay. All right, my hot takes really shouldn't be a hot take, but it should go without saying, "Don't insult the city you're in while you're in it." Don't tell the people of Detroit that Detroit is the worst thing America could ever be if you're in Detroit. Don't tell the people of Milwaukee when you go there for your convention that Milwaukee is horrendous. And for -- in general, don't tell America that we're the worst failing nation in the world if you want to run it because I find that exhausting.

PHILLIP: I mean, unless you're talking to people who live outside of Detroit, because they've already left Detroit, and you're repeating what they might think about Detroit. I don't know.

MCGOWAN: I still think it's a bad idea.

STELTER: People who don't know the truth about Detroit. That's the problem.

MCGOWAN: I still think it's a bad idea.

PHILLIP: Yes, I think that's right. T.W.

ARRIGHI: Yes, well first and foremost, rest in peace, Ethel Kennedy, a pillar of Massachusetts and a matriarch of a great American family. But I don't want to end you on a somber note, so some good news for the people of New England and Massachusetts.

I think something in the universe broke when Tom Brady left the Patriots. I think something in our whole psyches broke. But there's good news. This weekend, Drake May starts for the New England Patriots, the rookie phenom, and my hot take is the Patriots will win a Super Bowl before the next presidential election.

PHILLIP: We've been getting a lot of these hot takes where people are making sports predictions. I feel like that's risky business.

ARRIGHI: It's safe for me. It's the first time for me that's safe territory.

PHILLIP: Okay, all right. All right, Brian.

STELTER: I was going to end with the auroras. If you haven't seen it tonight, if you live in the northern U.S., go outside. Look up in the sky. The auroras are amazing. But here's my hot take. Happy birthday, Abby. Happy birthday, "NewsNight". This is the one-year anniversary this week of this program. And usually I'm just at home watching. I stay up way too late watching your show. What I love about it is I learn something from this fight every night. And I really do.

PHILLIP: I don't call it a fight.

STELTER: I learned something from the dialogue, from the dialogue, Abby.

[23:00:00]

And you know what your big present is? You get to be back tomorrow.

PHILLIP: Oh, yes.

STELTER: And the night after that.

PHILLIP: And I hope you'll join us.

STELTER: Or even more of these debates.

PHILLIP: It's been a really fun year.

STELTER: What have you learned?

PHILLIP: Well, I've learned that people should stop talking when I'm talking. And I've also learned that it's good to have differences of opinion at the table. Because sometimes they surprise you, like we were a little surprised tonight.

STELTER: Yes.

PHILLIP: There were some things happening here that were unexpected. And it happens almost every night. Everyone, thank you very much. We've got to go. Thanks for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.