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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Harris Slams Trump's Enemy From Within Remarks In Pennsylvania; Trump Intensifies Anti-Immigrant, Authoritarian Rhetoric; Harris To Sit Down With Fox After Trump Avoids 60 Minutes; Trump And Harris In A Warped Argument About Mentally Fitness; "NewsNight" Discusses Why Some Voters Still Prefer Trump Over Harris. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 14, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, Donald Trump --
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The bigger problem is the enemy from within.
PHILLIP: -- makes a totalitarian threat --
TRUMP: It should be very easily handled.
PHILLIP: -- to use military force --
TRUMP: By the National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military.
PHILLIP: -- to punish political opponents.
Plus, high risk, low reward? Thank you Kamala Harris gambles that a conservative audience wants to hear what she has to say and says yes to her first ever Fox News interview.
Also, Sticks and stones, Harris and Trump play a game of rubber and glue over who's mentally all there.
Live at the Table. Ashley Allison, Scott Jennings, Maria Cardona and Shermichael Singleton.
With 22 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Good evening, I'm Abby Philip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about. Donald Trump's threats, listen carefully to this. If you take Donald Trump literally, figuratively, seriously, whatever, what you're about to hear is him saying something that really matters. Trump talks about how cities are becoming a third world country, but following through on his promise to use the military to punish political opponents would essentially turn the U.S. into something resembling Russia, or the Philippines, or Venezuela, only with the most powerful military in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within.
We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics. And I think they're -- and it should be very easily handled by -- if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military, because they can't let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Kamala Harris literally played that clip to a crowd tonight in Philadelphia. Then she issued this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: So, you heard his words. You heard his words coming from him. He's talking about the enemy within, Pennsylvania. He's talking about the enemy within our country, Pennsylvania. He's talking about that he considers anyone who doesn't support him or who will not bend to his will an enemy of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's a closing message of sorts, because we only have 22 days left. And I'll be honest, Ashley, I'm really wondering, at this point, with everything that Trump has said and done, he says versions of this all the time, and, frankly, I have the proof. Is this really something that is going to penetrate to voters at this point?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it will change any voters' minds, per se, but I do think it's an important reminder. We cannot let language like this just happen and not call it out, because that is how democracies fall. Now, there may be, a few undecided voters. I'm like, my, my belief in real undecided voters is skim right now, but there may be some independents, some people on the margins who are like, should I go, should I not go, that this is a motivating factor because they want to save the democracy over anything else. But I think people who find his words so vile and so disgusting and so dangerous have already made up their mind.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, last spring, three weeks of the campaign. I mean, honestly, I mean, it seems a little bit surprising that this is the thing that that is kind of being seized upon in this moment,
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But I think it is important because you said it at the very beginning. These things matter. These things are not things that we should just pretend that either he's not saying them or that he's not serious when he says them.
And so I think that part of the motivating factor, and I think it's a smart strategy for the Kamala Harris campaign, is to maybe find some of those independents, some of those disaffected Republicans, people maybe who have seen him for the last four years when he was in office, who are listening to the Republicans that actually worked for him, who are underscoring how dangerous he is, and then his words on top of that, I think that makes a mix of a poison in a cauldron that I do think can both motivate folks who might be on the fence, and I think, importantly, we'll persuade people who already know that they don't want him in office, that it is important for them to get off the couch and to actually go vote.
[22:05:14]
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, if that were true, wouldn't the numbers have moved several months ago? I mean, when you look at most polling data that we have, most Americans say that they're dissatisfied with the direction of the country under the Biden-Harris administration. NBC just had a poll that came out, I think, today that showcased the vice president is doing even worse on the issue of the economy, on immigration, on foreign policy. And I think that those are the most critical issues that people in Pennsylvania are most concerned about, and I think that's going to be the motivating factor for many of them in November.
PHILLIP: You're probably right about that. I mean, I wonder, I mean, what does it say about the country that that's true? I mean, I was curious, I mean, apparently, according to some recent polling, Harris is, at 44 percent, way more trusted by, almost, way ten points than, than Trump on protecting democracy. Only 24 percent of Americans think Trump will accept the election results, but this is a tied race. It's a tied race.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is a tied race, and he leads on the economy, he leads on immigration, he leads on foreign policy. That was from the CNN poll that we did several days ago. I mean, on the issues that seem to matter the most to people, he's in good shape. His administration retroactively has its highest ever job approval in the latest NBC poll. He is more popular by most measures than he's ever been.
On the substance of this issue tonight, they were having a conversation about the possibility of chaos on Election Day. And he flatly said -- I don't expect any chaos out of my people, but one thing that I think we can't gloss over is that for the last calendar year in this country, there have been elements of the radical left who have been more than happy to engage in chaos on college campuses and on the streets of major American cities, that they don't respect institutions, and they certainly --
PHILLIP: And it's been handled by law enforcement. What Trump is calling for is basically unconstitutional.
CARDONA: And that has nothing to do with the Kamala Harris campaign, Scott.
JENNINGS: If Election Day comes and radical elements who have clearly flaunted our norms and laws all over this country were to do something. I don't know why you wouldn't consider all options to stop it.
ALLISON: They did do something. They did it on January 6th.
CARDONA: Exactly. If you're going to talk about people who actually did something --
ALLISON: Did something. We have proof.
CARDONA: There's history there.
ALLISON: His people.
CARDONA: And it's not ours.
ALLISON: They were people --
JENNINGS: And law enforcement and the National Guard should control that, too. I don't disagree with you. You act like I think that didn't happen.
ALLISON: I'm not saying that you don't think it didn't happen and that there's a problem, but the problem is that he doesn't think it happened and that there is a problem. And so that is why his words have such power.
I cannot say -- I am not saying this to be hyperbolic. I am not saying this to throw flames into the campaign. I cannot say that sitting on this network saying that I think Donald Trump is a danger to democracy, that if Donald Trump wins, Donald Trump would not come after me. And you know why? Because there are people who have been on this network who say my words are dangerous, who say, I want to beat Donald Trump at the ballot box. I don't want to do it any other way but Donald Trump doesn't accept the outcome of the ballot box, which is why we had January 6.
PHILLIP: Trump is saying it's all the scum. He calls Americans scum. He says sleazebags. But then you said that this was about protesters in the street. I presume you're talking about pro-Palestinian protests. That's another thing. He says, Trump is the one who says. It's about shifty Adam Schiff. He's talking about a sitting lawmaker.
SINGLETON: I mean, look, in my perspective, Donald Trump is on his way to 270. I think that's very clear. I think if the election -- well, to me, it's very clear. I think if the election were held tomorrow, I think he would win.
PHILLIP: Here's the thing, Shermichael, That's the political stuff. Scott wanted to talk about the substance. Let's talk about the substance. The substance of this, it is not really justifiable because you're not even trying to justify it.
SINGLETON: But, Abby, we've had these conversations for how many years now about the former president and his language and his rhetoric.
CARDONA: But here's the thing. Some people have normalized it.
SINGLETON: And you know what? The reality is the guy is performing better by every metric today -- CARDONA: That's not true.
SINGLETON: -- than every time in the past. That is absolutely true. He's more popular today. He's constantly underestimated. This isn't an opinion about liking or disliking a guy. This is just a fact. And I think oftentimes we get caught up in the rhetoric and we forget the reality that most people --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Let me get in here for a second, Shermichael, because I --
SINGLETON: They think that Trump is a better option than Vice President Harris.
ALLISON: Do you think those words are a better option?
PHILLIP: I have some information that will back you up a little bit, Shermichael. Shermichael, give me a second here, because I have some information that might back you up here. The New York Times talked to voters, Trump voters, and this is what they say about the conversation around the things that he says.
The media blows stuff out of proportion, says one voter. Another voter, he turns around and he says, no, I'm not doing that. Another voter says, he says the same crap about Hillary, and then he didn't do anything.
[22:10:03]
SINGLETON: That's my point, Abby. That's simply the point I'm trying to make.
PHILLIP: So, I guess that this is actually for the Democrats at the table, there is a believability issue.
SINGLETON: That's my point, Abby.
PHILLIP: So, I guess that -- this is actually for the Democrats at the table. There is a believability gap for Trump, and I think a lot of Democrats, I hear you all talk about this stuff, and you say, well, we saw what he was like as president, and some of the same voters look at that and they say, well, he didn't do it.
CARDONA: But the same voters are his voters and his voters are going to believe anything and everything that comes out of his mouth. If you are somebody who was looking at what happened on January 6th, even from the range of the political spectrum, from Republicans to Democrats, you looked at that with horror and you looked at that knowing that Donald Trump was the one who was actually inflaming that and did nothing to stop it.
That's not the only thing, Abby. Donald Trump ripped babies from the arms of their mothers. Because of Donald Trump, there is a generation of orphans in this country, and he has said that he would do that again. So, again, for so many communities that are vulnerable, that Donald Trump, and it's not just what he is saying about going after his political enemies, everything that he is saying to get retribution from vulnerable communities, he is -- absolutely, I think people believe that he will do that.
And I think that is going to be a motivating factor, not just for the Kamala Harris campaign, but for these communities to understand that this actually is existential for them.
JENNINGS: I think Harris bringing this up, there's two issues that jump out to me. One, you know, she has lied about Donald Trump quite a bit in this campaign. You know, I had a conversation one night about the blood bath thing, for instance. And so I think she burned a lot of her credibility on some of her attacks early in this campaign. And so people do look at that and say, oh, she's exaggerating again.
But number two, at this point in the campaign, I thought this last week, when President Obama came out, I don't think the Democrats problem is they just haven't attacked Donald Trump enough. I think their problem is they haven't sold Kamala Harris enough and that's why she can't close the deal.
And so I just wonder if we get another three weeks of attacks from all these candidates and surrogates against Donald Trump but no real sales pitch for Kamala Harris, can she actually get there, when you consider what Shermichael just said, it's true that he's winning on these issues.
PHILLIP: I saw parts of that. You kind of nodded along the way.
ALLISON: I think this is a yes and. I think. I don't disagree that there are polls that show Donald Trump is ahead in some issues. I think that there is one issue, our democracy, that should be superseding. And so I think the issue that I am taking is, I understand how -- I am an American, I understand how people are feeling, my family is feeling in this moment, but you don't get to have a feeling or express how you're feeling or decide who your leaders are if you don't have a democracy.
I do agree. I don't -- I will refuse to normalize this language, this behavior. So, I think you have to continue to call it out. And then you have to say, and in addition to standing for our democracy, this is what I will do to you. And I hope that the next three -- do for you. And I hope that the next three weeks is that what is, that's what the Kamala Harris campaign will do.
CARDONA: But here's the other thing, Scott, if all of the things that you said are true and all the things that you said are true about Donald Trump, you ask, why hasn't Kamala Harris closed the deal? Why hasn't Donald Trump closed the deal? If everything that you said is true and that you said is true, he would be ahead and he's not. She's the one who's ahead right now.
And if you look at the pieces in The New York Times poll that came out, she is now beating Trump in terms of the candidate who represents change. She beats Trump in terms of the candidate who represents and is going to fight for people like me. Those are two pieces that are critical in this campaign for who will win.
PHILLIP: All right, guys, stick around. We've got much more ahead coming up next. Kamala Harris decides to go somewhere she's never been before, Fox News. Is it worth the gamble considering that the network that paid nearly $800 million for amplifying Trump's lies in the last election? We're going to have a special guest to join us at our table in the fifth seat to discuss all of that. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Kamala Harris is out to prove it. For the Democratic nominee, any interview in mere weeks has left the campaign is basically a high wire act for her. If that interview so happens to be on the pillar of conservative media, that is Fox News, it's basically a gamble.
So, let's consider that Wednesday, one of the last potential trajectory-changing moments for the campaign will be this, when Harris sits down with Bret Baier. And we're told it's going to be 25 to 30 minutes worth of questions.
With us now is Puck Senior Political Correspondent Tara Palmeri. She's in our fifth seat. Tara, why would Kamala Harris be going on Fox News three weeks before the election?
TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: I think it makes sense because she needs to speak to working class swing voters, independents, Republicans who are still on the fence. I don't know if you heard from her. Director to 270, David Plouffe, this morning, he thinks they're still gettable, and if those are the persuadable voters, you got to get them where they are and they're watching Fox News.
The people, I mean, really MAGA-type Republicans, they think Fox is too liberal. I mean, they really do. I know this because I know a few of them. So, Fox is really a place for Nikki Haley land voters.
PHILLIP: It's actually -- I mean, I think there's a misconception about who watches Fox, right? And it's really a lot of different types of people that she might need to talk to.
JENNINGS: Some Democrats watch.
PHILLIP: She might need to talk to. I was actually surprised that she's never done a Fox interview.
JENNINGS: You know what was amazing to me about this is, you know, she turned down the Fox News debate. You know, they offered a debate, and she didn't want to do it. And now, with three weeks to go, we're scrambling over to Fox News because this campaign is in a full blown panic.
I do want to say a word about Bret Baier. Everybody seems to be crapping on him today. Bret Baier's one of the best journalists out there. He's going to ask her good questions. And if the 60 Minutes interview or The View or anything else she's done lately was hard for her, Bret Baier is going to put her through her paces.
[22:20:05]
And so this is a dangerous thing because he's a real journalist. He's going to ask real questions.
PHILLIP: I don't know. Have people been attacking Bret? I feel like people have been --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: One of the better Trump interviews he conducted, so there's that.
CARDONA: I think it's really smart. I agree that there could be voters to be had there. I just want to say to Scott that the Kamala Harris campaign is in no way in full blown panic. She's doing exactly what everyone was saying she needs to do. She is now everywhere -- what is it called, everything everywhere, all at once. That's what she's doing because that's what she can be doing, right?
She is expanding the map in a way that I don't think people were expecting her to do. Right now, let's just look at her coalition. Her coalition is from Bernie Sanders and AOC to Dick Cheney.
JENNINGS: Are you saying she's putting this race on (ph)?
CARDONA: I mean, that is the kind of spectrum that you expect from a campaign that is speaking to all American voters. And her message --
JENNINGS: Hold on. You said she's expanding the map.
CARDONA: North Carolina, Georgia.
ALLISON: North Carolina is in play.
JENNINGS: Maria, that's been on the map all year.
CARDONA: No.
JENNINGS: Come on, guys.
ALLISON: North Carolina is in play.
PHILLIP: Hold on. All right, Shermichael, go ahead.
SINGLETON: If the vice president -- and we talked about this in a previous segment. If the campaign was doing so well, if she was so ahead in the polls, she would not be going on Fox News. She would not sit down with Bret Baier.
I'm almost certain if I were a Democratic strategist, I would be very concerned about potentially putting my candidate on Fox News where she's asked a question where she doesn't appear to be well or she doesn't answer well, I should say.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: That is one way of looking at it. But, I mean, I think you could also look at it strategically as this probably should have happened earlier whether she was up or not. I mean, when you look at someone like Pete Buttigieg, he's always on Fox. He's on Fox.
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: I feel like if we took names off of people's like itinerary, you would look at her itinerary and be like, she's a winner and your guy's a loser, point blank.
JENNINGS: Why?
ALLISON: Because of the place -- she goes from The Shade Room to Fox, that's range, okay? Your guy doesn't do that. Your guy goes to safe spaces.
PHILLIP: Scott, we would like to see Donald Trump here on CNN. We're here.
JENNINGS: Did he not in this cycle? Did he not do it?
CARDONA: He wasn't even the nominee.
SINGLETON: Wait a minute, Allison. I've seen a number of reporting from Axios and a whole bunch of other outlets talking about how Democrats are concerned that the vice president isn't doing enough in terms of interviews, isn't doing enough in terms of campaigning on the campaign trail. So, clearly, folks on your side are worried about where the campaign is.
ALLISON: I'm saying, candidate for candidate, because that's what we got.
SINGLETON: Okay.
ALLISON: Candidate for candidate, she has done more interviews in the short amount of time and in a more diverse -- yes, really, yes.
PALMERI: Traditional, non-traditional.
PHILLIP: What's the view from what they're not saying publicly on either side? I mean, I'm curious about how everybody sees this.
PALMERI: I think a lot of the feeling is that this is a little too late, that she should have been doing this all along, and that because she hasn't stepped into this fray. Like her base was already activated the second that she was the nominee. They were so tired of Joe Biden. They were so excited. So, really, Kamala Harris probably should have been doing this Fox interview about two months ago and defining herself. And right now, she's just really starting to define her. It's like what you're seeing is that she hasn't really been able to separate herself from Biden, and that's a problem that they're dealing with.
CARDONA: But in all fairness, she had to put together a whole campaign before she figured out what she was going to do.
PALMERI: But you can still do interviews.
JENNINGS: This is the same excuse.
CARDONA: The constricted timeframe is actually something that she had to deal with.
And if you actually want to talk about, like who's in full blown panic, who has said no to the CNN debate? Who said no to 60 Minutes?
SINGLETON: Who said no to the Fox News debate?
CARDONA: Who said no to 60 Minutes? Who is now not doing any kind of other interview then?
PALMERI: Less Trump is better for him.
ALLISON: Because your candidate is --
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: Less Trump -- listen. You just said, absolutely. Thank you for taking the bait.
SINGLETON: I mean, I'm a strategist. Obviously, you got to make the best decisions for your candidate.
ALLISON: That's why I said, candidate for candidate, ours is doing more. Because when your candidate gets up there --
SINGLETON: Have you seen some of the clips?
ALLISON: Hold on, let me finish.
SINGLETON: All right, go ahead.
ALLISON: When your candidate --
SINGLETON: All right, go ahead. Well, you're speaking, so let me hush up, go ahead.
ALLISON: Thank you. When you're just -- no, just get -- let me stop. It doesn't matter if I'm black or I'm not, just don't cut me off. When your candidate speaks, it's undisciplined, unhinged, disrespectful, and it hurts him. So, yes, less more is better -- less Trump is better for Donald Trump.
SINGLETON: Like his strategist (ph).
ALLISON: The problem is that if he gets four more years, there's no more less Trump.
SINGLETON: Ashley, is that really going to be the message from the Harris-Walz campaign?
[22:25:02]
ALLISON: No, I don't work for the Harris-Walz campaign.
JENNINGS: Let me ask you a serious question about her strategy. You seem to think that quantity is better than quality. And I know you couldn't possibly think that most of the things she has done in the last two weeks have been anywhere near helpful to the campaign.
60 Minutes was an abject disaster and the little 15 second thing on The View when she couldn't think of a single thing she would have done different than Biden was the single worst sound bite she has uttered in this campaign. So, quantity here is not quality.
ALLISON: Let me ask you this. Okay, I'm going to make you a meme. Because you said she should have been doing more of this two months ago. So, if she wasn't doing more of this, what would have been your talking point? The problem is what we're just trying to say is, it doesn't matter which standard she meets. Donald Trump didn't even do a 60 Minute interview, so don't put 60 Minutes in my face. Whether it was good for her or bad for her, your do won't even go on.
JENNINGS: Yes. And on that, she came out worse for it.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hang on just a second.
CARDONA: Why worse?
PHILLIP: First of all, it is very hyperbolic to say that 60 Minutes was an abject disaster.
JENNINGS: The immigration issue alone was a disaster.
PHILLIP: I mean, Scott, let's be real for a second. I mean, there were answers that you didn't like. It does not mean that it was an abject disaster.
JENNINGS: It's like lots of voters.
PHILLIP: And to your point, I mean, Donald Trump wasn't there. He didn't do it at all.
PALMERI: That looks worse, in my opinion.
SINGLETON: But, I mean, that's not my argument.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Tara, yes.
PALMERI: The fact that he didn't do 60 Minutes actually looks worse. It looks weak. And when he doesn't want to take a debate, it also looks weak. But at the end of the day, it is much worse for those voters who are on the fence to see more Trump. More Trump is not going to -- PHILLIP: There's some reporting tonight --
PALMERI: Hiding him is the right strategy, and getting her out there is the right strategy.
ALLISON: Hiding him.
CARDONA: Look at that.
ALLISON: Listen to the words -- Abby, listen to the words that are coming out. Hiding your presidential candidate is the best strategy.
JENNINGS: Hold on, that's not --
ALLISON: Hiding?
JENNINGS: He's done more campaign events than she has, A. B, there's no hiding Donald Trump. He does plenty and people know plenty about him and he is hyper competitive in this race.
PHILLIP: So, there is some reporting tonight in Reuters that the Harris campaign is considering sitting down with Joe Rogan.
ALLISON: So, is Donald Trump, right?
PALMERI: That's a brilliant idea, because he's a really easy interviewer too. Joe Rogan will look at you like you are a marvel, he will serve up softball questions, he'll sit on the couch with her and just be like, and why, and why. And people like my brother, who are 27 years old, and they're going to vote for Trump because they like Ben Shapiro and Joe Rogan, maybe they'll listen to Kamala Harris for the first time, and think that Joe Rogan --
PHILLIP: Because you have to say -- hold on, Scott.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: But you can't say -- I mean, I don't know if this will happen or not, right, but you can't say that that's because they're trying to hide her, because Joe Rogan is not --
SINGLETON: I think it's the opposite. I think what it suggests to me as a strategist is that this campaign is desperate. Because if they were ahead, if they were firm in their belief that the vice president is ahead and she's on to win this thing, they wouldn't be sitting down with Joe Rogan. They won't go on Fox News. They would be selling it to the sunset. That's not what they're doing.
CARDONA: So, then three weeks ago when she did not -- when she hadn't started doing her media blitz, you're talking point was, oh my God, she's afraid, she's not doing anything, why is she so afraid. And now that she's doing everything, oh my God, the campaign is desperate.
This is a woman who is doing -- she's being very methodical. She is talking to voters that are gettable everywhere that they are. That is smart as a strategy, especially in such a constricted timeframe. And for you guys to go from, she's hiding, to now that she's desperate, to me, tells me that it's you guys that are ones that are afraid that Donald Trump is not closing the deal.
SINGLETON: You know what? You guys --
PHILLIP: We have to take a pause here. Everyone hang on. I didn't know this would be that kind of conversation.
Coming up next, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are engaged in a war of words over each other's mental acuity. We're going to discuss that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:33:37]
PHILLIP: Tonight, mind games. Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are in a warped argument, not about who is smarter but about who is mentally fit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINIEE (D): Staff won't let him do a "60-Minutes" interview. Every president for the last half century has done one, anyone who's running for president. Everyone has done it except Donald Trump.
He will not debate me again. I put out my medical records. He won't put out his medical records. And you have to ask, why is his staff doing that? And it may be because they think he's just not ready and unfit and unstable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That's the Democratic nominee earlier today and they followed a trademark truth tirade. This unhinged rant from Donald Trump. It was posted at one in the morning and it demanded that Harris take a cognitive test. The former president saying out loud, without any evidence, that there could be something seriously wrong with her. It is it just reminds, you know, we know the Donald Trump. I'm not a -- "I'm not a puppet. You're a puppet."
JENNINGS: I think -- think, a couple things. Number one, if I were Harris, I wouldn't be leaning too heavily into who's hiding what kind of medical conditions of people who are -- want to be the president given her role and lying about the condition of Joe Biden for the last four years -- that's number one.
[22:35:00]
Number two, I don't think this works for her. I think I'm back in the same bucket I was earlier. You're not selling your own candidacy, you're punching Donald Trump in the same way every other Democrat we've ever heard from for the last eight, nine years has punched this guy, that's not the problem with your campaign. We've heard all the attacks on Trump. If she cannot sell her own
candidacy any better than just punching on him, I'm for her if I were in her camp. I just don't know what's going to be enough. That's my view.
CARDONA: But here's what I think she's doing. I think they are a nimble campaign because they're doing it all. They are punching Donald Trump. And I do think that's important because there's a lot of people that have forgotten what he was like during the four years that he was president.
And now, there was a "New York Times" story actually about this, about how his rallies have become much more unhinged. Much darker, more dystopian -- the lies, the insulting American cities, insulting Americans.
People come out of those rallies and they're like, oh my God, this guy is worse than I ever remember him being. I do think that's an important thing for -- for the campaign to recall and for Americans to remember exactly what that was like, and that he's going to be worse if he gets to the Oval Office.
PHILLIP: Trump also seems to be really stuck on this himself.
PALMERI: Yes, he is.
PHILLIP: He is -- let's play what he said tonight in Pennsylvania about Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): The worst president and the worst vice president in the history of our country by far. And let me tell you, she is worse than him. And he's actually -- I didn't think I'd ever say this about anybody. She's actually, you take a look at, she's more dangerous than him, but he's actually smarter than her. I never thought I'd say that. I never thought I'd say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, just before you jump in, Tara, I mean, "The New York Times" also has a story. A couple days ago, Trump disparaged Vice President Kamala Harris as retarded. He complained about the number of Jews still backing Ms. Harris, saying they needed their heads examined for not supporting him despite everything he had done for the state of Israel. He seems incapable of thinking that she can be smart at all.
T. PALMERI: Right. He has this incredibly warped view of her that has been dispelled by the debate and other appearances and her -- her entire record in life and her great accomplishments, obviously.
But this is something he deeply believes and we've known this for a long time, even before the debate. He just does not believe that he's -- that she's smart. And I think that he is seriously under-estimating her to his own peril. Because this is a very close race, and to think that your opponent is dumb means you're playing reckless.
PHILLIP: And I mean, if I'm being honest, I mean, Trump has a hard time thinking that women can do things better than him. And black women in particular get this particular type of attack.
ALLISON: I mean, he just take -- if that was a debate stage that would be him taking the bait again. She -- she puts out her medical records and then he uses what three appearances to talk about it, just like on the debate stage when she said about his crowd size and his volume went from here to here for the rest of the debate.
But that behavior is not one of leadership. It is not one of control. It is not one of stability. It is not one that should be the President of the United States. And so, I -- I hear you that it cannot just be -- lay a bunch of punches on someone, even though that's how you can get a knockout, too. But it has to be, I'm going to knock you out and then I'm going to pivot and tell you this.
CARDONA: Exactly.
ALLISON: It works. It works for some. It's not the full comprehensive winning strategy but when you see somebody who then puts out on Truth social or wherever, you remember what it was like being in your, in your bed, waking up in the morning and being like, what did he tweet today?
CARDONA: Exactly.
ALLISON: And we don't -- you do. You do.
CARDONA: Is the republic still standing?
SINGLETON: Yes, I just wonder, I really wonder though, I mean I know often times we say people have forgotten. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I mean I've done a lot of qualitative work, focus groups, talking to voters.
They know who Trump is, they have their opinions about him but they still say, but you know what, I think he was better on this particular issue whether it's the economy or immigration. They're willing to sort of, I wouldn't say dismiss but overlook some of the things that we're talking about at the table.
If I were advising Vice President Harris, I'd get to the point of sort of counterpunching and your opponent.
But people still don't know enough about her on some of those critical issues and I think she would bode better to talk more about those things and say, oh, he won't release his medical record, or he's always attacking me and my intelligence. He has a history of that, not just against the vice president, not only against women, but also against men, too, who don't agree with him. It's, oh, they're not the smartest guy in the world.
ALLISON: She did that and then she put out a whole policy for black men today. It's a yes and, it's not a one shot, one size fits all. [22:40:00]
UNKNOWN: That's why I talked about the ability of the campaign.
PHILLIP: To Shermichael's point, this is kind of like what we were discussing when we started the show about Trump and his continued use of totalitarian language. On this, voters very clearly say that they don't think that he has the mental acuity to be president.
Forty-nine percent say that he's not mentally sharp enough to deal with the challenges of the presidency. That's compared to 55 percent who say that Kamala Harris is. So, she's winning by a lot on this question. And yet, it's a tied race. It's a tied race.
CARDONA: And that's why I think that it is smart for her to continue to underscore this part because it is important for the President of the United States to be able to have the mental acuity to be President of the United States and to have the kind of personality and frankly, ethical and moral true North which Donald Trump is completely devoid of. And I think that is another piece that it is very smart for the Kamala Harris campaign to continue to remind people of.
JENNINGS: Just to be lectured by Democrats about you have to have mental acuity to be the President of the United States after what we just lived through for the last four years.
CARDONA: Hey, Scott. Scott.
JENNINGS: Come on. Don't lecture me about mental acuity of the presidency.
PHILLIP: Trump made it an issue. So --
JENNINGS: No, I think Joe Biden made it an issue.
PHILLIP: He can't complain that it's being weaponized against him, but he was the one who weaponized it.
JENNINGS: Both of these candidates have more than enough people who believe they're up to the job to possibly win. I think that's true. But when Democrats are who all, you included, who all assured us that Joe Biden was riding unicycles and juggling knives in the Oval Office. When we know that wasn't true and Harris was the chief cheerleader for that. Don't -- the lectures about the mental acuity. Come on.
PHILLIP: Contrast.
CARDONA: Donald Trump is the one who's putting that on the table.
PHILLIP: Contrast is a heck of a thing.
CARDONA: That's right.
PHILLIP: That's where we are right now in this race.
CARDONA: Exactly. PHILLIP: Everyone hold on. Coming up next, one person at this table has a mother in a swing state who is still an undecided voter. You're going to hear about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:41:24]
PHILLIP: Every parent keeps some secrets and Tara Palmeri will know because it took her doing a podcast with her own mom to find this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOLANDA PALMERI, MOTHER OF TARA PALMERI: The first time I didn't vote for him.
T. PALMERI: Oh yes, I guess that was a family secret because you didn't want to upset daddy by not telling him that you voted for Hillary.
Y. PALMERI: I know, but he swore I voted for Biden. So, you know.
T. PALMERI: That's why I probably thought that the family folklore was the -- that you voted the other way.
Y. PALMERI: Because I don't tell them I voted Hillary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Just one of several secrets. I mean, she also voted for Trump.
PALMERI: I know in 2020, that's not the typical reverse, right? It's Trump-Biden.
PHILLIP: And she said --
PALMERI: Well, because she thought that Biden was too old. And so, I guess she was entirely wrong. But my mom has a very interesting voting pattern. She was an immigrant. She became an American to vote for George Bush twice. Then she voted for Obama twice and she voted for Hillary. Then she voted for Trump. And now she lives in North Carolina and she is undecided, although she said she's leaning towards Kamala Harris.
But after talking to my mom for about 40 minutes, what I came to realize is that I don't think that Harris campaign has done enough to talk to people like my mother and explain to them how it's going to be different than the Biden administration.
And as much as my mom is completely horrified by January 6th, Trump's behavior, the chaos, and why it makes sense for Kamala Harris to keep bringing up his terrible behavior, at the end of the day, she agrees with Trump on a lot of the issues, and she wants a change candidate, but except for Roe versus Wade. And she just really wants to see some -- she wants to see a divide between Harris and Biden on the economy. She wants to see a new --
PHILLIP: Let me play a little bit from Yolanda on the economy. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Y. PALMERI: There is one big point that they make is that, you know, Kamala, you and Joe Biden have been running the country for the past four years. My money doesn't go very far. Inflation is high.
T. PALMERI: So, it's like pocketbook issues.
Y. PALMERI: It's hard for a middle-class person to save money. Because even to buy a car these days, everything's so expensive.
T. PALMERI: Do you feel like the economy is getting better?
Y. PALMERI: I personally -- I'm doing okay but it is costing me. My pocketbook is getting, you know, I have less money. That's the reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That's what voters are saying.
ALLISON: That's true.
PHILLIP: And she does, I mean, there's a lot more to it. But she doesn't like most things about Trump. But this is the thing that she is kind of stuck on.
ALLISON: So, in the 22 days, if the Harris campaign listens to Scott and just runs down the field and talks about her economic -- her opportunity economy, talks about maybe, pulls a little sunlight between Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying I'm a different person. She is.
She's allowed to have her own view and ideology and it lands, this race is hers. Like it is tied right now because your mom is still waiting for that -- that information. The good news is, for Kamala Harris, is that she's still waiting for it. So, in these 22 days, if she can go on Joe Rogan, go on Fox News, go to the shade room, go to Roland Martin, please go --
T. PALMERI: Actually, we talk about that my brother makes her listen to Joe Rogan.
ALLISON: There you go. So, if she can hit those places where your mom might not expect but then hear exactly what she wants? I think it's Kamala --
T. PALMERI: Well, that's how she's getting information and that's the problem. My mom is also getting a lot of disinformation. She was sending me so many texts.
[22:50:00] Her friends are telling her crazy conspiracy theories. A lot of them are pro-Trump. She lives in an evangelical community in the suburbs of Charlotte. And also, you know, the other point that I feel like I want to make about this and my mom is that, you know, she really doesn't care for Trump. Like, she really doesn't.
PHILLIP: Can I play a little bit more just to add to your point, just so people understand? Here's what she said about Trump's first term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Y. PALMERI: What I saw while President Trump was president was pretty scary. You know, we had a lot of civil unrest, right? We had COVID. He had a swinging door with his cabinet. You know, we had the riots. Those things are not, you know, they don't bode well. I still remember them. They still -- it's still all clear there, you know, in my mind what happened then. So, I don't -- I don't think I'd want him based on that. But then I'm not like crazy about her either.
PHILLIP: She just -- she thinks that she needs to be convinced that Kamala Harris is not the most liberal person to ever run for president. And based on what she has said in 2019, it's hard for her to separate the new Kamala Harris from that person.
CARDONA: So, I think the good news is, is that everything that Kamala Harris has put forward is very solutions-oriented to what people are looking for right now. It goes further than anything that the Biden administration did to focus on the issues that people are looking for -- lowering costs, making sure that they can pay a mortgage, that they can buy a house, that they can start a small business, that their pocketbook will expand with the opportunity economy.
PHILLIP: But isn't the existence of the policy or the sales job that's the issue here? I'm curious. I mean--
CARDONA: It's sales.
T. PALMERI: It feels like comfort.
PHILLIP: You think it's the sales?
JENNINGS: Well, also, why didn't she do it? I mean, she's the sitting vice president. You can't -- it's hard to take her out of the mix because she's currently in the office. And I suspect -- look, by the way, there'll be millions of people who don't like Donald Trump and who have some worries about who are going to vote for him.
You don't have to love every politician you vote for. Heck, I don't. I mean, most of them I don't love. But you wind up asking yourself directionally, my preference is X or my preference is Y, and I'm not going to love this person. But if they move the country, nudge it in the direction that I prefer, I'm able to get over some humps, so.
PHILLIP: All right, everyone. Stick with me. Coming up next, our panel will give us their nightcaps including a take on "Saturday Night Live" and Christopher Columbus. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:00]
PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Tara, you're up.
T. PALMERI: Okay, so I am not sure how long this Trump and Elon Musk bromance is going to last for, especially since Trump left him with one of the most important parts of campaigning, which is a ground game. And Elon Musk has hired DeSantis' old team, which basically botched the ground game in Iowa spending $6700 per vote.
And they still came up 30 points short. And so far, based on my reporting, they have been struggling, even having to hire new canvassers in August and September. So, if he loses the ground game in this knife fight election, it's because of Elon Musk. I don't expect them to be doing dancing videos anytime soon.
PHILLIP: Staying. All right.
SINGLETON: Let me look.
CARDONA: Thank God.
SINGLETON: Tim Walz was selected because he was supposed to help Vice President Harris with rural white voters hunters. And we saw a video of the guy struggling to load his shotgun and Democrats said he's an avid hunter. He has a ton of guns. He couldn't load an A400. I have one of those, it's a Mossberg, basic gun, semi-automatic, easy to load.
And then he said, you see this little thing here? Because when you get older, it sort of helps protect you. It's called a recoil pad, it does soften the blow. But he didn't even know the proper name. So, for any hunter out there who saw that video, they're thinking this guy doesn't know anything about firearms. They need to get a refund just like the little pretend bass pro-shop suit he got, they should have went with the governor of Pennsylvania.
PHILLIP: Okay.
CARDONA: Your gun has never gotten stuck, so, poor guy.
PHILLIP: All right, Maria.
CARDONA: So, "Saturday Night Live" -- Harold Hammond does a great Trump and he talked about how this is where culture and politics and comedy all come together along with viral internet. Moo Dang is the cutest Pygmy hippo and he has gone viral. And so, Darrell Hammond says, and as he is doing the Trump, he's like, oh, they're eating all the pets. They're eating Moo Dang. I know and everyone's started screaming.
PHILLIP: I heard that Moo Dang was a little more controversial than that --that he's feisty. CARDONA: He's feisty.
PHILLIP: I was going to say, I heard that he bit someone. But that's -- he doesn't have teeth yet, though.
CARDONA: He nibbled it. He nibbled at the zookeeper. Nothing big. Nothing serious.
PHILLIP: Okay. Go ahead, Scott.
JENNINGS: All right, tonight I just wanted to acknowledge Christopher Columbus since apparently, everyone else is trying to cancel or villainize this man. Why can't we do both? Celebrate both, indigenous peoples and Columbus.
Why does history have to be reduced to a zero-sum game? Happy Columbus Day to everyone. Why? Because in the words of great American historian Tony Soprano, "He discovered America," is what he did. He was a brave Italian explorer and in the Jennings household, Christopher Columbus is a hero. End of story.
SINGLETON: Scott.
CARDONA: I'm so glad -- how can you discover a country where millions of people have already lived?
PHILLIP: Okay, there you go. Ashley.
ALLISON: I'll also close with saying Happy Indigenous People Day.
[23:00:00]
On my hot take, "Pop The Balloon". Okay, so if you don't know it's an internet sensation dating game. Sometimes I just wish our politics was this simple and I could just pop Trump's balloon and he would go away in this election because I'm over it. I'm over it. Twenty-two days. We got to get this done and Republicans should want his balloon to be popped, too.
CARDONA: Let's pop that balloon.
PHILLIP: If you were like me and didn't know what this was about, Google it. Everyone, thank you very much. And thank you for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
