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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Harris and Obama Together for First Time on Campaign Trail; 12 Days Out, Harris in Georgia, Trump in Nevada and Arizona; The Double Standard of How Harris and Trump are Judged. "NewsNight State of the Race" Panelists Discuss How V.P. Harris' Town Hall Performance; Beyonce Supports V.P. Harris. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 24, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, pulling out of here to win.
Kamala Harris, Barack Obama, and Bruce Springsteen plead with voters to slam the screen door on a second Donald Trump term.
Plus, a candidate curve as Americans get ready to give their election day report cards, are Donald Trump and Kamala Harris getting graded on different rubrics.
Also, the car versus the car salesman, voters want to take Harris' policies home off the lot but Harris is still struggling on Salesmanship 101. Always be closing.
And Republican rank and file march to Trump's drum by twisting themselves into a pretzel to defend his Hitler praise.
Live at the table, Catherine Rampell, Kevin O'Leary, Shermichael Singleton, Maria Cardona and Larry Wilmore.
With 12 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, last chance power drive to win votes. Tonight, Bruce Springsteen serving as the opening act for Barack Obama and Kamala Harris in the state of Georgia. The swing state is a place that the vice president needs to run until she drops, basically.
The message from the boss and from Obama tonight, well, we'll never go back to Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRUCEN SPRINGSTEEN, SINGER: Donald Trump is running to be an American tyrant. He does not understand this country, its history, or what it means to be deeply American. And that's why November 5th, I'm casting my vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We do not need four years of a wannabe king, a wannabe dictator running around trying to punish his enemies. That's not what you need in your life. America's ready to turn the page.
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This is not 2016, and it is not 2020, including because just a few months ago, the United States Supreme Court told the former president that he is effectively immune no matter what he does in the White House.
Now, just imagine Donald Trump with no guardrail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And we are lucky tonight to have the host of the Black on Air podcast, Larry Wilmore. He's here in our fifth seat. Let's get right to it. I mean, this was a message that was pretty stark tonight, Larry, from both Kamala Harris and Barack Obama. And it was about an unfettered Donald Trump and the risks. Do you think that's the right message for right now?
LARRY WILMORE, WRITER AND COMEDIAN: Well, first of all, I love that Bruce Springsteen was there, you know, Obama's still trying to prove he was born in the USA, whatever, Obama, you know?
PHILLIP: It's never too late.
WILMORE: It's never too late to win that argument, all right, whatever.
But, you know, there's no science around how do you close. You know, that's the thing, you know? And so, to me, the biggest argument against Trump is the whole January 6th argument. I really believe that. If you take politics out of it, you know, get out of your bubble, whatever.
His actions on that day on January 6, to me, is disqualifying. You may agree with his policies that like there are so many -- I have never seen so many Republicans who speak out against Trump because of that action alone. And they actually support his policies but they can't vote for him because of that. They may not support Kamala Harris but they're certainly not going to vote for Trump.
PHILLIP: I mean, we see it here at this table where many Republicans will come on and they'll say, I don't agree with what he did, I thought it was, you know, deplorable, but I'm still going to vote for him. How does that work? How does that work?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, if I'm advising Vice President Harris, I take the point about making that closing argument. But I still think there's a hurdle that the vice president has yet to overcome, Abby, and that is giving those independent voters, that sliver of Nikki Haley or Never Trumpers, or maybe folks who are on the fence about Donald Trump.
[22:05:02]
We saw some in the town hall yesterday. She hasn't given them a convincing enough argument to vote for her.
There was one single mom now, I think her husband died a year ago, and she talked about issues from an economic perspective and taxes. And she was leaning Vice President Harris, but she was still undecided. Her mind wasn't changed. I predicted there are many other voters out there who fit a similar profile who may stay home.
But Donald Trump, we know where he is numerically. For Vice President Harris, I would argue she needs to increase where she is, and I don't think she's met that numerical number yet.
PHILLIP: I just want to say that we're going to get into that dynamic on the economic stuff. We've got a couple of economic minds over here at the table. We're going to get into that pretty deeply later into the show. But in the meantime, I mean, it does seem like they are seeing something that tells them we got to hit this hard. Because it's not just the January 6th thing, which is enough for people like Larry, I mean, we have one of his generals coming out saying that he talked about Hitler admiringly, all of these things. Kamala Harris last night on CNN said Donald Trump is a fascist.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and there is a reason for that. And there actually is science around this closing, because data shows, the campaign's data, data that all of the Democratic groups are focusing on, focus groups, all of the things that they're hearing at the doors, I have heard this as well, the January 6th issue is absolutely incredibly compelling and it moves voters.
On top of that, the Hitler stuff, the enemy from within, all of the things that are now coming to the fore, not from Kamala Harris' mouth, not from the mouth of any Democrats, from the mouth of non-partisan military decorated generals who worked alongside Donald Trump in national security environments, in the Oval Office, they're the ones who are saying this man is a danger to this country. This man poses a danger to the future of the Constitution, to the future of our democracy. That absolutely moves these independents and the unaffiliated voters that are out there.
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: I think it's significant. It's not only the military leaders, which is compelling in and of itself. It's like half of Trump's former cabinet members do not support him.
CARDONA: That's right.
RAMPELL: Either they have not endorsed him or they have explicitly opposed him. And, you know, he can write it all off as, oh, those are just, you know, disgruntled former employees. This is half of your cabinet.
CARDONA: His vice president.
RAMPELL: His -- well, he did try to -- he didn't allow people to try to --
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: The problem with all of this is it's old news. The Jan. 6th deal has been in the market forever. This rhetoric from people saying Trump is a Nazi and a fascist is in the market forever. Do you really want to spend your closing statements on old stuff that's already needled into 45 percent of the country that hates him?
PHILLIP: Is it old news or is he also now running to -- I mean the problem, it would be old news if he was not running to be president again.
O'LEARY: Think about what you're trying to replace. You're trying to tell somebody --
RAMPELL: The Nazi is always relevant, always relevant.
O'LEARY: you should care more about Nazi Trump than the cost of gasoline, your rent, and the protein you buy for your family.
PHILLIP: Well, that is literally the --
O'LEARY: And I think that's a losing argument.
PHILLIP: The argument is you should care more about whether the president of the United States is a fascist and admires Nazis than you should about the cost of gasoline.
O'LEARY: Who really believes that?
PHILLIP: You don't think that's fair?
CARDONA: A lot of Americans believe that.
O'LEARY: I don't think so. I really don't.
RAMPELL: I think the argument is, you should care if he's a Nazi, yes. You should care if he's pro all sorts of other authoritarians, like Viktor Orban and, you know, Putin and various others. That's all relevant. But even if you don't care about those things, even if you're more interested in pocketbook issues, he's still not going to be good for your pocketbook.
SINGLETON: If I could chime in, a lot of this stuff, hell, I've been discussing this for over a year now on this network, the needle hasn't necessarily moved against a former president. I'm just speaking as a strategist here. There's a reason this race is tied neck-and-neck. Now, perhaps some people may dismiss it. Perhaps there are other priorities that people are more concerned about. But, clearly, that message alone isn't resonating with enough voters to give Vice President Harris a comfortable lead in this race to be able to say, I have this in the bag. She does it for a reason.
CARDONA: See, it's not that message alone. This isn't the only thing that she's talking about. One of the things that I thought was so brilliant last night at the town hall --
O'LEARY: Yes, tell us what she's talking about.
CARDONA: I will tell you what she's talking about.
O'LEARY: Because I don't know. I listened. I couldn't understand anything.
CARDONA: Well, then you're not listening very well.
O'LEARY: I'm trying to.
CARDONA: Last night, what she talked about is that she has a to do list for the American people while Donald Trump has an enemies list.
O'LEARY: What's on the list?
CARDONA: Those are the two things that she is focused on.
PHILLIP: We're going to get to it.
CARDONA: Reducing costs, health care, reproductive rights.
SINGLETON: But last night --
PHILLIP: Let me let Larry.
CARDONA: That matters to people.
[22:10:00]
O'LEARY: You just did a better job than she spent two hours doing. Good for you.
WILMORE: A lot of it is -- you know, a lot of Americans are, are choosing a leader right now. Kamala Harris didn't have a long runway to prove herself as president, you know? So, what she's really proving to me in these final moments, is she the right leader for America? And many people in the middle are choosing who's going to be the leader. I say Trump disqualifies himself as the leader.
Trump is a security risk. You flatter him, he's on your side. He's the craziest security risk ever as far as I'm concerned, as far as for a sitting president.
So, people are making decisions, can Kamala lead? Can she lead foreign policy, domestic policy, all these things? Some of those questions, I don't think she's answered. Some of those questions, she may have answered.
O'LEARY: Or can't answer. WILMORE: Some of those are intangibles too, Kevin. They're not necessarily policy. Some of them are the way she answers questions. Ironically, some of it is the way she may not answer questions.
O'LEARY: I would like to introduce the concept to the panel tonight. It's going to be a short dissertation. But I want you to think about this, because I watched like you did yesterday and something hit me pretty hard. Only 90 days ago, Pelosi went to Biden and said, you need to step aside and convince him to do so. He made the decision, and he did actually ask her, and we've now learned this, is she the right person to drive this home? He questioned that. He could have said, we need to run a process in order for me to make this move, but they decided not to.
I don't know who they is. Was it Obama? Was it Pelosi? I don't care who it was. In stock picking, just listen to this analogy, you may agree, you may not, 88 percent of managers, because of the world I live in, cannot beat the S&P year in, year out. So, you give them $1,000, the S&P beats them, they can't pick stocks. This is the second time the Democratic Party has circumvented democracy and chose --
RAMPELL: That's not true.
O'LEARY: Yes it is. Hillary Clinton was chosen, and she had Bruce Springsteen too. And what happened to her? And now we've chosen --
PHILLIP: Kevin, Hillary Clinton won a primary, okay? She won a primary. You may not --
O'LEARY: Nobody could compete with her, even Bernie Sanders.
PHILLIP: She won a primary.
O'LEARY: Okay.
PHILLIP: First of all, that's the first.
O'LEARY: So, did Kamala Harris win the primary?
PHILLIP: Listen, we've talked about this before?
O'LEARY: What's wrong with talking about it tonight after what you just saw?
RAMPELL: Do you think that's really what matters to voters now?
O'LEARY: How many Democrats wish --
PHILLIP: Hold on. Hold on a second.
RAMPELL: Let's talk about what matters to voters. Do you really think voters care about the intranescene primary process?
O'LEARY: If you're a Democrat, you sure as hell care today.
PHILLIP: I know that you are from Canada, but the primary process -- O'LEARY: That's why it's -- I'm perfect for this. I have no skin in the game other than to get a great president.
PHILLIP: It's not in the Constitution. The political parties can choose however they want to choose their nominee. And as long as they meet the legal deadlines in the states where they are on the ballot, they can do it however they want.
O'LEARY: I just want to be transparent. Yes, I was born in Canada. But just to be transparent, I was born in Canada.
WILMORE: The Democratic Party process is not democratic.
O'LEARY: No. But my kids were born and raised in Boston, all my investments in the United States. I want the president, whoever it is, to be a winner.
PHILLIP: You're describing something as undemocratic that has absolutely nothing to do with the democratic process,
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: But I do want to get back to the strategic issues here and the deficits for the vice president, from my position as a Republican strategist. The first question that Anderson Cooper asked Vice President Harris last night was, you've talked a lot about Trump, what message will you give to the American people to convince them that they should vote for you? We've heard everything you said about Trump. The vice president went straight into talking about Donald Trump.
There was another gentleman, I think it was the third question, he asked, Well, Vice President Harris, what are you going to do to deal with and address the issues of cost? Now, I know Catherine has her views on that. I understand the limitations of the presidency. But the vice president talked about price gouging and banning that. And Anderson jumped in and he said, well, wait a minute, that's only doing natural disasters. What about beyond that? She did not answer the question. That's still the issue. She's yet to provide sufficient answers.
I would argue for many of the questions that some of those swing voters are asking, and that's still --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hang on a second. This is exactly what we are about to discuss.
Okay, everybody hang on for us. We're not done here. Everyone stick around.
Coming up next, Kamala Harris, okay, maybe as Shermichael says, she could be vague on policies, but Donald Trump is known to have no policies, okay? Is there a double standard on how they are being judged as candidates? We're going to talk about that. Plus, hear what happened when voters were shown both of their agendas without their names attached to them. We'll tell you who they ultimately chose in terms of the policies that they prefer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the Trump curve, a long running theme of the Trump era that we've been in now for almost a decade, is the different rubrics that have been applied to Donald Trump and basically anyone else who runs against him, including Kamala Harris. Hillary Clinton on CNN just in the last hour, she says that the double standard is very much alive and well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It still is very difficult to cover Donald Trump. You know, he is incoherent half the time, then he'll come out with something that is about how dangerous migrants are, and that cuts through, and then he goes back to talking about Hannibal Lecter or whatever is on his mind. And it's really hard to cover that.
I do think there's a double standard. I think she understands that. She's been underestimated her entire political career. She gets up every day. She puts on those high heels. She goes out there. She makes her case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, we were just discussing this and I think it's worth being just very clear about it. And we had a whole discussion last time you were on the show about, you know, the -- okay, if we want to talk about policies, what are the policies, right? When you ask Donald Trump that, he doesn't really have an answer, but we want to hear the 15-point plan from Kamala Harris.
O'LEARY: Let's just pick one. Let's pick one.
PHILLIP: No. Before you jump in here, just to be clear, you can't just pick one, right? Like I'm saying to you, if you want a 15-point plan from Kamala Harris, what's the --
O'LEARY: I'm just saying, if we're going to debate policy, let's pick one area and move on.
RAMPELL: No, but the point, the point is that he doesn't actually specify what his policies are.
O'LEARY: Please give me a moment. I think we can focus on one thing. Everybody can agree corporate tax rates are important in the competitiveness of America. Yes, no?
WILMORE: Yes. O'LEARY: Okay. It doesn't matter what our tax rates are, it's where they sit in the G20. We want to be in the middle or near the top in competitiveness. 21 percent, which is where we are sort of now, is very competitive. We're in the upper quartile. If we go to 28, we go to the bottom quartile.
Now, does anybody care about that as a policy statement? Has Harris ever explained why it's good to go to 28 percent?
PHILLIP: Wait.
CARDONA: You just lost me. The final voter out in the Midwest trying to make ends meet, you just lost me.
PHILLIP: When did Donald Trump ever say that?
O'LEARY: He's telling you he's not raising corporate taxes.
RAMPELL: He has said that he wants to cut corporate taxes to 15 percent.
PHILLIP: Yes, I get that, but when did he articulate what you just did?
RAMPELL: Right, exactly.
WILMORE: That level of specificity.
O'LEARY: He already said that he was going to try and keep his tax policy in place, trying to even reduce to 15 percent.
PHILLIP: I think what we're asking here is --
O'LEARY: And why, Abby, we would she care --
RAMPELL: Maybe in easier way, this is like one of the least popular policies Donald Trump has.
O'LEARY: Which policy?
RAMPELL: I'm not sure this is it.
CARDONA: Well, if you want to talk about that policy, Kamala Harris talks about how, big corporations should be paying their fair share. That resonates more than everything you just said.
O'LEARY: Where 88 percent -- all your jobs at this table come from the 88 percent job creation is in the private sector.
CARDONA: When Americans --
O'LEARY: You should care what the tax rates are.
CARDONA: When Americans are looking at huge corporations who are making money hand over fist while all of the prices at the grocery store are going up, they are going to be looking at what Harris is saying and what Donald Trump is saying. And if Harris is saying, I want these corporations to pay their fair share, to not get out of paying zero --
O'LEARY: That's the reason you want to make America the bottom quartile in the competition?
PHILLIP: Let me just pause --
O'LEARY: That's the reason?
CARDONA: You guys always say that.
PHILLIP: Let me just pause this here.
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: You know what I just learned tonight? I have to interview her. I have to do it.
PHILLIP: Here's -- the conversation is veered as it often does when we talk about this. This is actually what we're talking about here. You all are having a conversation about policy. The conversation that's happening between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris is not this. Let me just play for you a little bit about of what Donald Trump has been saying. This was at a Turning Point USA event. Just a sliver of what his speeches are like these days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We can't stand you, you're a shit vice president.
She's lazy as hell and she's got that reputation. She's a radical left lunatic.
She's not a smart person. She's a low I.Q. individual. She is. She is. She's a low IQ person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILMORE: Yes. Now, can I? One of the biggest reasons of support of Donald Trump is this, you know, and it is the ideological right against the ideological left. So, a lot of these policy discussions really aren't the reason why people are rushing to the polls. A lot of people who support Trump, I should say, who are in the cult of Trump, cause some people do support him for taxes and those sort of things, but there's a lot of people that support the cult of Trump.
He's the cudgel against the left. He's the one that will say she's stupid because she's a leftist, not because she doesn't know policy, you know? And that's what people hear and that's what he's talking to. And when he says that he's never challenged on those he's challenged with regular questions about policy and that, but he's not -- that's not the language he's using to that crowd. He's using a different language.
RAMPELL: Yes. I would also add that if Kamala Harris, you know, started praising Hitler's generals and a famous golfer's genitalia and calling half the country, the enemy of the people, you know, she'd be out of the race. For Trump, it's a Tuesday. And that's how --
(CROSSTALKS)
WILMORE: Because that's why they're supporting him, though. That's the reason.
PHILLIP: Any other candidate would not be given a pass for that kind of thing.
O'LEARY: It's only said for eight years. Everybody knows what he said.
SINGLETON: He's a unique political character in that regard. I would agree with that. But Donald Trump has had a pretty simple message that most voters understand. Taxes are an issue. Inflation is a problem. The cost of living is a problem. Most people agree. The poll suggests that. Immigration is an issue. Most people agree. Foreign policy is an issue. Do you want your sons and daughters going to fight another long, expensive war?
[22:25:00]
Most Americans would say no.
I think, for the most part, he's been very effective at executing a critique of problems that the vast majority of people would agree with.
PHILLIP: What about the solutions? I mean, I think that's really fundamentally -- if the question is Kamala -- hold on. If the question is, did Kamala Harris explain her tax plan and offer solutions for the border and do all of that in a one hour town hall, I have the same question for Donald Trump. Where are the solutions?
SINGLETON: So, I think most people will say, yes, we should have some level of deportation. You know, we can agree or disagree with that from a policy perspective. I know your thoughts on that, Catherine.
CARDONA: That's not what he says.
SINGLETON: But he -- he does say that.
CARDONA: No. He says mass deportation.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, I think on the immigration point, Trump is actually super clear. That might be the one place where he's super, super clear.
SINGLETON: But also on the economic issue, Trump says, look, I want to lower taxes for working class people. Most people will say, okay, that makes sense to me, lower taxes. I don't want to pay more than I have to. That is a very simplistic way to articulate a message that resonates with a lot of people out there. PHILLIP: But, again, when you say, like that woman, Pam, last night, my favorite, Pam, she said, okay, so what does that mean? $400,000? Are you paying more? Are you paying less?
SINGLETON: Well, that was to Vice President Harris.
PHILLIP: Right, exactly. So, that is a very specific policy question. You're saying, Trump is saying, I'm going to lower your taxes. The question is, okay, at what level? Who's getting lower taxes? Now he wants no taxes. Now he wants no taxes on anything.
O'LEARY: He wants to keep the tax where it is now.
PHILLIP: He literally said he's thinking about no income tax at all.
O'LEARY: What I'm finding fascinating about where you're going with this, Abby, is you're saying we don't need details anymore in the last 12 days. It just doesn't matter.
RAMPELL: No, she's saying the literal opposite of that.
CARDONA: She's saying that if you're going to --
O'LEARY: Let's go to another aspect of policy.
PHILLIP: I'm saying the opposite, just to be clear.
O'LEARY: Very popular idea, and I'll give it to Harris, when she came out on price gouging at grocery stores, okay? And she said, look, I'm going to make sure these grocery stores, which, by the way, are the lowest margin of all of our sectors in our economy, 3.5 percent, I'm going to go after them with a new layer of government regulations so that every watermelon you buy is government price tested.
Now, that was a very interesting idea. They tried that in the Soviet Union.
CARDONA: That's not what she said.
O'LEARY: But she can't do it.
(CROSSTALKS)
RAMPELL: It kind of is.
SINGLETON: But that's what she said. She said a national ban on price gouging.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: We have a whole, we're going to continue this conversation because I think the other --
O'LEARY: You don't like that one?
PHILLIP: No. We're going to continue the conversation because the other part of this is about like the details of the economic plan. But I did want to say, you're not going to find an argument with Catherine about the price gouging plan, or with me for that matter. I mean, it's pretty clear that the price gouging plan does not address the actual price of groceries at the grocery store.
But more, more to come, more to come. Everyone hang on ahead.
Barack Obama weighs in on that Hitler scandal of Trump's.
Plus, see what happened when voters saw both of the agendas of Harris and of Trump, but without their names attached. A surprising result, next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: It's a political problem that's been around for decades. Is it about the message or the messenger? For Kamala Harris, it seems her salesmanship of popular policies is being weighed and found lacking by voters. That's a central theme of a new and pretty enlightening piece from our very own Catherine Rampell who is here at the table.
What is fascinating about that is that this is one of those things where you look at people's views and they're blind on whose name is attached to the views --
CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: Right.
PHILLIP: -- and tell us about more what it found.
RAMPELL: So, YouGov, the polling organization, polled Americans on 130 or so policies from both of the candidates and didn't tell the survey respondents whose policies were whose. And they asked people, do you like it, do you dislike it? And the general finding was that Kamala Harris' agenda was head and shoulders much more popular than Trump's. Almost all of her policies got majority support, only about half of Trump's did.
And actually, they had done a version of this with YouGov a few months ago where Trump's policies fared even worse. The reason why he's finally above water on about half of his policies is that he's kind of had this recent Panda Peluso where he is giving away tax breaks to everyone and, you know, no tax breaks on social -- no taxes on Social Security benefits or to our tips or what have you. So, Kamala Harris does much better in a blind test than Trump. She does better on almost --
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: That is immensely interesting, which tells me she can't articulate.
RAMPELL: Yes, I'm getting to that. I'm getting to that, I promise.
O'LEARY: Okay. RAMPELL: So, we also looked at it by category. So, we looked at it, you know, health care, crime, foreign policy, immigration, et cetera. She bests him on almost every category. There are a couple where they're basically tied -- the economy and immigration, actually.
But she even bests him on crime, which I think is super fascinating because if you ask voters in the abstract, who do you trust more on crime? They overwhelmingly say Trump. But then if you look at their policy preferences, again, head and shoulders, Kamala Harris does better, in part because people don't know what all of her policies are.
LARRY WILMORE, WRITER AND COMEDIAN: My perception is in 2019, I thought she wasn't being authentic personally. Remember, her critique from the left was that she was a cop. Like many people called her that when she was D.A. And I'm not mad at that personally.
Like I like when she was on that Senate hearing committee and she was being a kind of like, go get them kind of, you know. And I think when she's -- when she's in those shoes, that's when she's her most authentic self.
[22:35:00]
So, it doesn't surprise me that a blind study of how she actually is would resonate with people.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: But here's the thing, for the reality.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But this way, again, you cannot try to become this new candidate or your authentic self.
CARDONA: She's not trying to become a new candidate.
SINGLETON: And to Catherine's point, I looked at the data. I was fascinated by the data. But a blind test is not what voters are going to decide when you go into the voting booth. And the reality is what people think and perceive is often their individual and personal reality. So, if they perceive Trump to be better on the economy, better on crime, then that's a net gain potentially for him.
PHILLIP: It could be their individual -- I think that maybe for a lot of voters it is that. But I think there's also a lot of evidence that voters already have preconceived notions about what the political parties are going to do for them. So, a lot of voters believe that Republicans in general are better on the economy. even though there's a lot of evidence that Democratic presidents have been better on job growth and on GDP. And when you ask voters, they'll say, oh, just any Republican is better than a Democrat.
O'LEARY: Fair enough. Let's agree that you're right. Then this goes right to the thesis that they chose the wrong jockey to deliver the mandate.
RAMPELL: No, that's not --
O'LEARY: Because you're basically saying these are the right policies in the wrong jockey's mouth.
RAMPELL: I think that there are a couple of issues here. One is I actually think Kamala Harris has not been the most effective communicator.
O'LEARY: You don't say --
RAMPELL: -- of her.
O'LEARY: Oh my goodness.
RAMPELL: I think, actually, Republicans have been better at branding her than she has been at branding herself.
SINGLETON: Which is a part of the process of electoral politics.
RAMPELL: That's part of the issue. I think the other problem frankly is us, the media, in that policy coverage kind of always gets crowded out of elections in part because horse race coverage is easier, it's more digestible, voters want it. But it's especially hard to get policy coverage in -- in this kind of environment where Trump is on the ballot.
O'LEARY: Last 12 days. Last 12 days.
RAMPELL: He'll say something crazy and it grows out everything else. That's very true.
CARDONA: That's very true but here's what I think we're missing even from the polling numbers. And let's remember, Kamala Harris had a very constricted time frame, right? When she came out as the candidate, her-- people liked her, Democrats liked her. Her numbers went up.
UNKNOWN: Yes, that's true.
CARDONA: They skyrocketed. Then she started talking about the policies. If you look at the poll --
O'LEARY: No, no. Then she started talking.
PHILLIP: Kevin, let her finish. CARDONA: If you look at the poll -- no, no. If you look at the polling, she has closed the gap on the economy. She's closed the gap on inflation.
UNKNOWN: Sure. That's all true.
CARDONA: She's closed the gap on immigration. So, if she wasn't really selling her policies, that wouldn't have been important. The problem is I don't think that there has been time enough to close the gap where everyone is like, why hasn't she put this away?
PHILLIP: Let me add one more data point here. Because I think that you're making an important point that if this were all just about how terrible the economy is and how bad, Kamala Harris' policies are, then I don't think you'd be seeing this in terms of what the Republican Party and Trump's allies are doing in terms of spending.
In their spending, which is they're putting their money where their mouth is, right? They're spending more now than in September on LGBTQ rights. They're spending less on the economy. They're spending less on inflation.
Taxation is the only thing that's going up because it's going from zero to now closer to 40 percent. So, I don't know. I mean, you're a business guy. If they're not putting their money behind an economic message, what does that tell you?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
O'LEARY: I think the case I'm trying to make to all of you and I hope I'm going to win it by the end of this show, is that there's nothing wrong with the policies or whatever they are. This is the same candidate that lost in 2019 and 2020 and has never been tested by the markets for various reasons we can argue about, but she's never won anything. And if she loses, I'm not saying she will --
PHILLIP: She has won a Senate seat, just to be clear.
O'LEARY: Okay, great, but we're now talking about the presidency here, all right?
UNKNOWN: And vice president.
O'LEARY: If she happens to lose, I think the soul-searching will be -- picked the wrong horse.
UNKNOWN: That's not true.
WILMORE: Joe Biden -- Joe Biden flamed out in the primaries with Hillary and Obama. He did not win one primary, nothing. And then he became vice president and then won the presidency.
O'LEARY: Well, thanks to South Carolina.
WILMORE: Maybe she'll have a unique set of circumstances.
CARDONA: And if you want to look at winners and losers, Donald Trump lost in 2020. The only election he has won is in 2016. He lost 2018, he lost 2020, he lost 2022.
O'LEARY: Okay, make it simple. How did she do last night? How did she do last night?
CARDONA: I thought she did absolutely --
O'LEARY: She was great, right?
CARDONA: She was good. I thought she was good. I know a lot of people -- O'LEARY: -- Why does she --
CARDONA: Let me talk.
UNKNOWN: She's okay. She's all right.
CARDONA: I thought she was fine.
PHILLIP: All right, let me do a quick survey just because I feel like everybody's not - one word.
CARDONA: In one word, how did she do last night?
SINGLETON: Not good.
CARDONA: I thought she was good.
WILMORE: She was all right.
CARDONA: Fine.
O'LEARY: Horrific. Horrific.
PHILLIP: All right. Now, we know.
CARDONA: In the panel after this where you had the five undecided voters, three of them went away voting for her and two of them were undecided, leaning towards her.
[22:40:07]
SINGLETON: But the third was shaky, Maria.
WILMORE: I'll tell you what the problem is.
SINGLETON: She was shaky.
WILMORE: Kamala is using two methods, politically, Abby.
CARDONA: She convinced undecided voters. Yes or no?
SINGLETON: She convinced two out of the five.
CARDONA: She convinced undecided voters.
SINGLETON: Okay, sure. Two out of the five.
CARDONA: Okay. None of them went for Trump. None of them were leaning towards Trump.
SINGLETION: But Maria, if they're not voting for her, well, that's not a net positive. You know that.
CARDONA: You guys are saying that she's not closing the deal, and she actually is. WILMORE: If I were advising the campaign, Kevin. We've heard enough from Kevin. What does Larry have to say? There comes a point when you have to be direct with your answers, and you can't use political speak. And sometimes, Kamala uses political speak. Where, let's take fracking, for example, which is, well, my values never change. Well, what's wrong with saying I changed my mind?
PHILLIP: Right.
WILMORE: There's nothing wrong with that. I think the audience would appreciate that more if you gave a real valuable answer as to why you changed your mind, that fits your thesis of why you don't want to do that. Just be straightforward. But you don't have to -- you don't have to be so forceful in a non-answer. And I think that can put in --
RAMPELL: So, actually, fracking is a very good example of what I was talking about, people not knowing what her policies are. We've been talking about people like her policies or not, and we haven't actually talked about what the policies are, which is a microcosm of this whole problem. But one of the things that you have pulled about was support for increasing domestic oil and gas production, which actually both candidates support.
They are both vociferously on record supporting that. And most voters think only Trump stands for it. And it's partly because you don't get clear answers from Kamala Harris about why it is her positions changed and what she stands for today.
WILMORE: And a good vice president if she said, you know, I changed my mind on this. Well, I thought cracking was horrible, so --
SINGLETON: And a good way for her to say that, I mean, like she might have been trying to get away if I'm advising the vice president. and we know this question's going to come up. I had a previous position when I ran before. I've been vice president for three and a half years.
When you're a vice president, you have access to a ton of information. Your minds change. I understand the importance of energy independence. Therefore, I'm supporting fracking. Most people say, well, hell, that makes a lot of sense. But she's not saying that.
WILMORE: Obama did this with gay marriage.
SINGLETON: That's not what she's saying.
WLMORE: He said he evolved in gay marriage. Mitt Romney couldn't say that because Republicans don't believe in evolution.
SINGLETON: Oh, that's not true, Larry. That is not true, Larry.
O'LEARY: Just listen to yourselves right now. Twelve nights to go.
UNKNOWN: Oh, I know that, Kevin.
O'LEARY: And you're trying to explain to this candidate how to answer a question, and she is the candidate for President of the United States?
CARDONA: I'm not trying to explain to her. He is.
O'LEARY: Come on.
SINGLETON: That just settles it right there. But my point, though, Kevin, is as a strategist, as I'm looking at this and I'm looking at the deficits or some of the issues with the vice president and her inability to communicate in a concise way, her policy changes, she's failing on that.
CARDONA: No, but see, this is what we really do. She's failing on that.
PHILLIP: We really do have to go. We really do have to go, guys.
UNKNOWN: There's a lot of information.
CARDONA: Double standard, what you're talking about.
PHILLIP: Everyone, stand by for me.
UNKNOWN: It's not a double standard. It's not.
PHILLIP: Coming up next, we've got some breaking news tonight. A new report says that Elon Musk, who's been campaigning for Donald Trump all over the country -- he's also paying for Trump's ground game, has been having secret conversations with Vladimir Putin. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:34]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a headline from "The Wall Street Journal" that Elon Musk certainly will not like. The paper is reporting that Musk and Russian President Vladimir Putin have been in regular contact since 2022. Putin, according to the journal's sources, at one point even asked Musk to not activate his Starlink satellite internet service over Taiwan as a favor to fellow autocrat Xi Jinping of China.
Now, Musk didn't reply to the journal's ask for comment and the Pentagon didn't comment, as well. Kremlin did acknowledge one phone call but said that the pair are not in regular contact. CNN has not been able to independently verify any of this reporting as of this hour, but this is a pretty big deal considering all the things about Elon Musk.
CARDONA: And especially concerning, like you said, Elon Musk has kind of become one of Donald Trump's biggest advisors. He's out there possibly doing something illegal already with trying to buy votes and the whole deal.
PHILLIP: He's handing out million-dollar checks.
CARDONA: Exactly.
PHILLIP: Questionably.
CARDONA: The lotteries, exactly. The DOJ, Department of Justice, has said, warned him this could possibly be illegal. I think we don't know what the details are, right? The U.S. officials don't really know. But it's certainly not something that our national security officials are going to think that is a good thing.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, even to take, let's take Trump and their relationship out of it for just a second. Elon Musk has a $1.8 billion classified contract with the United States government. And it raises a lot of big questions about what are we doing here? I mean, are we just --
O'LEARY: We're working with the world's greatest --
PHILLIP: No, no, but I'm just wondering, I mean, if you have, you know, too much credit card debt, you can't get a security clearance.
SINGLETON: I mean, he is the world's greatest -- I don't disagree with that.
PHILLIP: What are we doing here?
UNKNOWN: You know what? There's just nothing to argue about.
SINGLETON: Well, I don't know about that. I have a lot of issues with someone that we're relying on for very sensitive information and technological advancements, working with Vladimir Putin, potentially working at the behest of Xi Jinping. These are two of our greatest adversaries. I got a big issue with that.
And if this reporting is true, then we may need to reconsider some of these engagements that the federal government is having with Elon Musk. I love Elon Musk. I think he's a brilliant guy. But this crap is not okay for a whole host of reasons. These countries are our adversaries. Their objective in every regard is to defeat the United States however possible. And so, this does make me very, very nervous.
O'LEARY: I read that news a different way.
SINGLETON: I don't know about that, Kevin.
O'LEARY: Basically, the Supreme Leader of China saying do not put that freedom of speech over Taiwan. I forbid you to do it.
SINGLETON: They have no right to forbid that.
O'LEARY: Wait, wait, wait.
SINGLETON: This is an American company, Kevin. What are we talking about, Kevin?
O'LEARY: Just like he did over Ukraine, gave him the finger. Said, I'm going to do whatever I want. I'm Elon Musk. And that's exactly what happened.
SINGLETON: Oh, Kevin.
PHILLIP: I don't know that that's what -- that's not what I -- just to be clear.
O'LEARY: That's my interpretation.
PHILLIP: The reporting doesn't actually say what he did in response to that request.
O'LEARY: We're speculating. I'm speculating.
PHILLIP: So, I mean, you can speculate, but that's not what the reporting says.
O'LEARY: It said he -- at the insistence of the Supreme Leader of China.
PHILLIP: He was asked to do it. It doesn't say --
O'LEARY: I hope he didn't do it. He obviously wouldn't do it. He was Starlink above it.
PHILLIP: But the issue is also that, I mean, when you talk about Starlink, Elon has gone back and forth about whether he's going to provide Starlink to Ukraine. He started off trying to support Ukraine in this war.
O'LEARY: He did.
PHILLIP: And then he pulled back at several really important junctures.
O'LEARY: It's working tonight.
PHILLIP: That is not speculation. That's proven.
O'LEARY: I know, but it's working tonight.
CARDONA: I think one of the things that is also very concerning is it reminds people about the links between Donald Trump and Putin. And the fact that Donald Trump admires Putin, you know, treats him as like one of his best friends along with other strongmen around the world.
And I think it really feeds into the message, one of the closing messages of the Kamala Harris campaign, that this is not somebody, Donald Trump is not somebody, as Elon Musk is his closest advisor, not somebody that we can trust to be commander in chief.
O'LEARY: Shouldn't you treat your adversaries closer?
SINGLETON: But our adversaries should not have, in my personal opinion, that potential level of influence over an American CEO of a very important company because of the technology that we have. We should investigate.
WILMORE: Well, and they're already in a relationship, which he should be careful about because he's going to make Trump jealous, you know, as much as Trump loves Putin. In fact, I mean, this is really bad news for Trump. If he's having -- it's like Putin's a teenager. What are all these secret conversations he's having?
CARDONA: I know. How does he have time?
WILMORE: On the phone. Exactly.
PHILLIP: Who even talks on the phone anymore?
WILMORE: On his bed, talking on the phone.
UNKNOWN: With Trump?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
O'LEARY: Every leader wants the opportunity including the President of France during the Olympics, sat him right beside him at the state dinner. I mean, he's Elon Musk, he's Batman.
SINGLETON: Look, Kevin, again, I get your point about where Elon Musk is because of everything he's created, everything he's led.
O'LEARY: Can you translate for China for me on that one?
SINGLETON: But if Vladimir Putin is calling me, I'm not answering Vladimir Putin's phone.
O'LEARY: You realize he makes cars in China.
SINGLETON: I'm not answering the phone call of Xi Jinping. I'm an American. My interest is about America first.
O'LEARY: Wait a second. He makes cars in China. No, no. He makes Teslas in China.
SINGLETON: But he also has federal-confident top secret, above top secret knowledge that --
PHILLIP: Kevin, do you acknowledge that Putin and Russia right now and for some time, their adversaries?
O'LEARY: Hundred percent. I'm the guy that wants to put 400 percent tax on China.
SINGLETON: That's true.
PHILLIP: I think that's Shermichael's --
O'LEARY: You do.
PHILLIP: No, I'm talking about Russia. But Shermichael's point is that because it's Russia, it's different.
O'LEARY: But you've all of a sudden made the assumption he's done something wrong. SINGLETON: No, no, that's not what I'm saying, Kevin. I'm simply
saying I wouldn't even answer or take a call from the leaders of either of those two countries.
O'LEARY: Wait a second.
SINGLETON: I just would not.
O'LEARY: You're making cars in China and the Supreme Leader calls you and you're not going to take his call?
CARDONA: We're talking about Putin.
PHILLIP: We're talking about different things here.
O'LEARY: You just said both countries.
SINGLETON: Okay, so China, what is Xi Jinping calling Elon Musk about? Let's go with that hypothetical.
O'LEARY: He's got $50 billion invested there.
SINGLETON: So, what does he want to say?
O'LEARY: He may say that he's going to change my policy.
SINGLETON: Then change your damn policy. That's the end of the conversation.
CARDONA: And that's not normally something--
SINGLETON: There's no need for Vladimir Putin to be calling Elon Musk.
O'LEARY: You just want to keep your adversaries closer to you so you have information.
SINGLETON: That's the government's job, Kevin. Not Elon Musk's position or job.
PHILLIP: All right, guys, we got to leave it there.
O'LEARY: He did go visit him to get that plant.
PHILLIP: Everyone, we got to leave it there. Everyone, stick around. Coming up tonight, a special solo nightcap on a potential new money- making opportunity. Our friend Larry Wilmore will explain what that's all about next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:37]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for a special news nightcap. Larry Wilmore, you have 30 seconds to say your piece. WILMORE: Okay, well, a new marketing opportunity, I believe, has
arisen for the Arnold Palmer estate. Everything from enhanced drugs, to energy drinks, to scented candles are now on the table, and they're all possible because of Trump's comment about Arnold Palmer.
And I mean, one of the slogans is to say, hey, whether you want to drive it long or just keep it on the sharp, go ahead. You know, I feel like I'm on the sharp take right now. Teed up at the king.
O'LEARY: I got to tell you, do not give up your day job. I would say that right now.
WILMORE: You're my biggest fan.
O'LEARY: Biggest fan.
PHILLIP: Mr. Wonderful, would you invest?
O'LEARY: No.
WILMORE: Wait, what are you talking about?
O'LEARY: The guy's dead.
WILMORE: Yes, but we used the name, you know.
SINGLETON: Rigor mortis? You can license it, Kevin. You can license it, the name. There you go.
PHILLIP: I thought you were going to say that the estate would sue Trump and then.
WILMORE: Oh, no, no, that's too conventional.
PHILLIP: Use that.
WILMORE: Marketing opportunities.
CARDONA: He has given a whole new name --
SINGLETON: You're thinking like an entrepreneur. I like it.
CARDONA: I think women are going to think twice about ordering an Almond Palmer.
PHILLIP: Okay, real quick guys.
WILMORE: Or it becomes a more popular drink, I'm saying.
SINGLETON: I think more popular.
WILMORE: Thank you.
PHILLIP: Real quick, I mean we have like 30 seconds. But Beyonce is finally coming.
CARDONA: Yes.
PHILLIP: Tomorrow, finally.
CARDONA: Very exciting.
[23:00:00]
Everyone is so energized about that. Everyone is thrilled. They were waiting for her at the DNC.
PHILLIP: I'm curious about what she's going to say to be honest, because we don't hear from Beyonce.
O'LEARY: So dumb to back a politician and lose half your audience. So dumb. Either politician.
PHILLIP: I don't know. Who do you think her audience is?
RAMPELL: Exactly.
O'LEARY: Half her audience. No Republicans listen to her?
PHILLIP: I don't say no Republicans, but if you are a Republican and you listen to her, you know what you're getting from --
O'LEARY: If you're an artist, and I was your manager, I would forbid you from endorsing --
PHILLIP: All right. We've got to leave it there, everyone. Thank you very, very much. Thank you for watching at home. It's been a good "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
