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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
What to Expect After Polls Close in Key Battlegrounds; Trump's Pitch Becomes Darker, More Unhinged in Final Hours; Trump Allies Warn His Remarks, Actions Could Cost Him Race; Trump & Harris Deliver Starkly Different Closing Messages; Trump Blasts Shock; Iowa Poll, Showing Harris Leading; Trumps Rips Iowa Pollster Who He Previously Praised; Harris Does Not Mention Trump Once in Final Michigan Pitch; Harris Says Voters Must "Decide the Fate of Our Nation"; Trump Hints Support at RFK Jr's Discredited Health Views; Trump Praises RFK Jr Saying They'll Ban Fluoride in Water; Trump Media Outsourced Jobs to Mexico Despite Him Threatening to Punish Companies That Do the Same. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 03, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL DATA REPORTER: -- potentially early the week after the election. We, it just depends how close it is. But remember, Nevada, we weren't able to project the Senate race there in 2022 until Saturday night.
And that was a race that was decided by about a point. So if we end up with Nevada being the ultimate state, God help us, Kaitlan Collins. God help us.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, on that cheery note, Harry, thank you so much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COLLINS: Okay. Hopefully that does not happen. We will keep you up to it.
We'll have Harry on standby, if so. Thanks for joining us. See you tomorrow.
CNN News Night with Abby Phillip starts now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, November stunner. A gold standard poll finds a field of dreams for Kamala Harris in Iowa as Donald Trump promises protection for the women of suburbia. Plus, a revenge fantasy on a rally stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Shoot through the fake news.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: The Trump campaign tries to say the nominee said anything but what he really said, and definitely maybe Trump says it's possible to a pair of radical health changes backed not by science but by RFK Jr. Live at the table. Scott Jennings, Van Jones, Shermichael Singleton, and Maria Cardona.
With two days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do. Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about.
Does America like Donald Trump when he is angry? Tonight, if you're one of the few people, I presume, who are truly undecided about what you're going to do on Tuesday, you're trying to pay close attention to what Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are actually saying. If you're the campaigns, you're trying to take stock of where you are.
And then there is this new poll that is surprising, to say the least. The Des Moines register Iowa poll puts Trump behind. That's in a state that went to him in both 2016 and 2020.
So, why is this happening? Well, it could be a lot of things, but maybe it's because America is watching Trump do truly bizarre things. Stuff that you watch and you just ask, why?
Or maybe it's because he sounds plain angry and he's saying stuff that would get you, or me, sent to HR.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had the safest border in the history of our country the day that I left. I shouldn't have left. I mean, honestly, because we did so -- we did so well.
Do you want to see me knock the hell out of people backstage? I'm seething. I'm working my ass off with this stupid mic.
She came at me the other day. That's not nice of her to do. And I think we're going to start having a little fun with Michelle.
To get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news. And I don't mind that so much cause. I don't mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: CNN political commentator Kristen Soltis Anderson is in our fifth seat. She's the co-founder of Echelon Insights and she's a Republican strategist. I guess the question is, what is going on?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, the former president says a lot of things that people don't like. People think it's a bit outrageous. But what's interesting about this recent time, CNN poll, only 6% of people say that overall character and competence of the candidate actually matters.
And so, what that tells me is that a lot of the rhetoric is baked in. Now, look, as a strategist, and Kristen will definitely talk in detail about this, you want the candidate to stick to the closing message at the end of the race. There's still people that have yet to vote.
And my worry would be that you potentially turn off some of those voters. I think some folks have signaled to the former president, hey, let's stick back with the economy and immigration, those issues are strong. He's ahead of the vice president by 16 points, and that time sent a poll.
And you saw in the subsequent rallies that he went back to that message.
PHILLIP: I mean, there's that, but then there's also --
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yeah.
PHILLIP: I mean, look, okay --
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well done. That's as good as you can do with that one.
Okay. You know what. This happened on Friday, I think right around the time that we were coming off the air on Friday. I'm gonna play it for you because I don't understand why things like this is happening. Let's play someone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm a human being, right? I come in and here's the problem. I said, oh, man, it's too low.
I said too low. So (inaudible)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARDONA: That's just.
PHILLIP: It's obscene. I mean, it is, but he's running for president, right? So is he doing this stuff because he doesn't care? Is he doing it because as Shermichael seems to --
JONES: You know, I --
PHILLIP: Think nobody cares.
SINGLETON: Not (ph) what I think the polls say, let's be clear about that. The poll (inaudilble) didn't say that.
[22:05:11]
JONES: Could it be that he actually he doesn't want to be president? Wouldn't it be interesting if it turns out he's doing everything he can not to be president?
PHILLIP: That would be interesting. That would be interesting.
JONES: And he still winds up winning. Because you can't tell me that fellating a microphone isn't anybody's playbook for anything. Am I wrong?
CARDONA: Somebody's playbook, clearly. But not, should not be the playbook of a presidential candidate.
JONES: Or anyone else!
CARDONA: Or --
PHILLIP: Or anyone else. Look, I mean --
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is that what he was doing? Are we sure about this?
PHILLIP: Oh my god.
JONES: If we had to have the question --
JENNINGS: I'm just --
JONES: Two days --
JENNINGS: You know --
JONES: Before the election, whether or not --
JENNINGS: Look --
JONES: He's the president was fellating a microphone --
JENNINGS: I'm just asking --
JONES: We might have lost the plot!
JENNINGS: That's where you all went. Look, he's well known to be very, very picky about the --
PHILLIP: What do you think he's doing?
JENNINGS: Microphones and the audio, and he was --
CARDONA: So, what do you think he's doing?
JENNINGS: Obviously complaining that the thing was too short.
CARDONA: So he wasn't putting his mouth on it.
JENNINGS: And so I'm just saying, I don't know what he was doing.
PHILLIP: The point is --
JENNINGS: I mean, if you all want to believe --
PHILLIP: Here we are 48 hours before the election, there's a lot of spin going on.
CARDONA: Yeah. PHILLIP: The Harris campaign, you know this, they believe that there's a shift happening.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: And shifts do happen --
JENNINGS: They do.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: In these final days.
CARDONA: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump experienced it in 2016 to his benefit.
JENNINGS: Mm-hmm.
CARDONA: Yeah.
PHILLIP: The Harris campaign thinks that they're experiencing it, and I cannot help but wonder. He started the week with the Madison Square Garden rally.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: Which was a terrible couple of days --
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: Of conversation around what was said and done at that rally --
CARDONA: Yes.
PHILLIP: And then you ended it with that clip that I just played. That is not a good five days for Donald Trump.
CARDONA: Absolutely not. And so you ask why, and Van, you said, well, what happens if he just doesn't want to be president? What happens if he's just not well?
What happens if he is the one who is actually having kind of a mental breakdown? What happens if he is the one who, because of his age, because of his health, he is not in a position where his mental acuity is what it should be. And in fact, they've actually done analyses of what he is saying, the words that he's using, and that it's actually much darker, much more obscene, much more vengeful and full of retribution than it was even just two years ago.
And so, that could be. I'm not a --
SINGLETON: Sure.
CARDONA: Mental health doctor -- JENNINGS: You're not a doctor --
CARDONA: But others --
JENNINGS: But you happen to diagnose him.
CARDONA: But there are others who have said that that's the case.
SINGLETON: So, what was the case --
CARDONA: But --
SINGLETON: With President Biden?
CARDONA: But hang on a second. Hang on a second.
JONES: Who's that? Who's that?
CARDONA: But -- But hang on a second. But hang on a second.
SINGLETON: Come on guys.
PHILLIP: Come on guys, let her (inaudible)
JONES: We took care of ours. You can take care of yours.
CARDONA: To the point of a strategy. If he really wants to win, this is not the way to win. He's not playing addition.
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He still could win, absolutely.
JENNINGS: But -- mm-hmm.
ANDERSON: But I will admit that over the last week or so, he's definitely leaving points on the board. Because the reality is, when he left office, his job approval was mid 30%. But if you ask people now, did you approve of the job Donald Trump did as president?
His numbers are actually pretty high. They're higher than Joe Biden's are now. And so if he was closing this last week on a message of, don't you remember what it was like when I was president?
And focused on all the things people think they remember that are positive, he could be doing great --
JENNINGS: And would, again, pivot (inaudible) --
ANDERSON: And said, I feel for him. He is reminding people of all the stuff.
PHILLIP: Scott, you can.
JENNINGS: And what is Harris closing on? She's closing on, well, if you went to the Republican rally, might be a Nazi. Biden's closing on half the country is garbage. Mark Cuban is closing on, well, if you're a Republican woman and you want to support Trump, you're weak and stupid. What are the Democrats closing on exactly? Because I think we spent a lot of time --
PHILLIP: I think --
JENNINGS: Focusing on Donald Trump's apparent diagnosis by Dr. Cardona here. We don't spend a lot of time talking flailed from one thing to the other, including completely skating past an abysmal jobs report on Friday.
JONES: To the hurricane.
JENNINGS: They've lost manufacturing jobs in this administration, but we, you know, I don't know why we're not talking about it.
PHILLIP: I'll say we are going to talk about it actually in the very next block. So hold your thought about that. But we started off talking about this Des Moines register poll and I want to get your take on it because I think the key thing, we can argue all day long about whether Iowa is in play.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: I don't know that the Harris campaign even really thinks --
JENNINGS: It's not.
PHILLIP: That that's the case.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: But what's really the point of this poll is what's happening with women.
CARDONA: Mm.
PHILLIP: And Ann Selzer was on CNN just a couple hours ago on Anderson's show, and she talked specifically about the likely voters, the older women voters, who she says, are overwhelmingly supporting Harris, and that that is one of the main things tilting this state in her poll to Harris. What do you think is behind that?
ANDERSON: Well, there's two different polls that came out of Iowa on the same day. And so we're in this choose your own adventure, choose your own poll environment, right? You have on the one hand, the Selzer poll with an incredible track record that is telling a story that is in some ways almost unbelievable.
I mean, in this poll, it also has Kamala Harris winning senior citizen men --
PHILLIP: Mm.
[22:10:11] ANDERSON: By two points. There are just things in the cross tabs that you go, I don't know about that. But I will say, in my own data, I have also seen Kamala Harris doing better among senior women than you might expect.
I don't think it's the 35 something point margin that Ann Selzer found in her poll, but it wouldn't surprise me if older women actually do swing a little bit more toward Harris than people are expecting.
PHILLIP: And these people vote.
ANDERSON: But at the same time, for sure --
PHILLIP: And in fact, what she said was that of the 90% of them are either had already voted or were certain to vote.
JENNINGS: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: So that's one of the factors here is, who is actually gonna show up at the poll.
SINGLETON: I mean, so why didn't she focus on women? And this is like, if you believe in fairytales -
CARDONA: Well --
SINGLETON: Pigs can fly, dragons, and genies, and the just (inaudible) --
PHILLIP: I mean, I don't think that's fair, Shermichael.
CARDONA: What do you mean?
SINGLETON: This so crazy.
CARDONA: What do you mean?
PHILLIP: Shermichael, listen.
SINGLETON: I'm right through the --
PHILLIP: There --
SINGLETON: I'm right through the poll. Nobody in America --
PHILLIP: Just to be clear --
SINGLETON: Who does it professionally would believe that.
PHILLIP: I --
SINGLETON: Just (ph) gonna went out here.
PHILLIP: We have a pollster at the --
SINGLETON: Oh, come on. PHILLIP: We have a pollster at the table.
SINGLETON: I mean, Kristen.
PHILLIP: Okay.
SINGLETON: Do you believe that?
PHILLIP: There are polls that are outliers --
SINGLETON: Here we go.
PHILLIP: But she's not a bad pollster.
CARDONA: She's got a --
SINGLETON: I didn't say she was a bad pollster --
CARDONA: Stellar track record.
SINGLETON: But you know, we all have dreams and in my dreams I want to go to the bar --
JENNINGS: Can we?
SINGLETON: On Saturday.
JENNINGS: Can we take a poll?
SINGLETON: Come on.
JENNINGS: Who here at the table thinks she'll win Iowa? Is anybody willing to put their hand up?
PHILLIP: Just one, can I say one thing?
JONES: Not a single person, Scott.
PHILLIP: Can I say one more thing about this poll?
JENNINGS: God.
PHILLIP: The result is basically within the margin of error here.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: So even though it shows Harris winning, it's a margin of error of 3.4%.
CARDONA: Can I?
PHILLIP: So, in the polling world --
CARDONA: Yeah.
PHILLIP: That means it -- JONES: She's a -- Look --
PHILLIP: It could be right, but it could not be right.
CARDONA: Can I? Can I? Let me just say this because the Harris campaign wants to be talking about anything other than this poll.
Let's just be very clear because they know where the point of what they need to be closing on is and where it is. And it's not Iowa. If she wins Iowa.
Everything else is going to fall in place --
JONES: Yeah.
CARDONA: But that is not what they want to focus on. And they don't want people to think she's going to win Iowa --
JONES: They clearly want people --
CARDONA: Because they want people to make sure that they go out and do everything that they can to go vote and get everyone around them to vote, which I think is really smart. And that is the point --
JONES: Even they aren't (ph) (inaudible) --
CARDONA: That is actually their closing argument is this really matters. And the contrast between what she's bringing to the table and what Donald Trump, who's not well, what he brings to the table.
JONES: She's a great pollster. This is probably not a great poll. That's what I think.
JENNINGS: Mm.
JONES: And I think that, I don't think it's about her having wishes. I think she just put a poll together. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
I do want to say though, Mark Cuban did get caught on a hot mic. That's not a part of the closing.
CARDONA: Right.
JONES: Biden said something dumb and walked it back.
CARDONA: Yep.
JONES: And Kamala Harris never called anybody a Nazi for going to the thing.
CARDONA: Right.
JONES: She did not. So, a lot of people around --
JENNINGS: I mean, this was a big talking point.
JONES: So, listen --
CARDONA: Not by her though.
JONES: So, in the closing, so mistakes are being made, Mark Cuban made a mistake, Biden made a mistake, Kamala's being misinterpreted, but there is discipline here and actually pretty. I think the Kamala Harris campaign is closing probably too much on an optimistic, hopeful, positive message. You look at the ads now, Donald Trump's ads are dark, dark, dark.
Hop comments trying to go back to joy, joy, joy. I don't know that's gonna work for her, but she's not closing with, you know, crazy microphone stuff and all the stuff that's going on with Donald Trump.
SINGLETON: But you know what I think is interesting about this? And I have respect for the vice president. I understand the potential to make history here, Van.
A lot of people adore her. I personally adore her. I understand history as well.
But there's something about the closing that just isn't resonating with a lot of people out there.
JONES: What do you say?
SINGLETON: And when you're talking about this --
CARDONA: Like what?
SINGLETON: Hopeful, idealistic future.
JONES: Mm.
SINGLETON: A lot of people say, well, I don't feel that. I don't see that in my community. I don't see that when I watch my local news in terms of crime, in terms of cost of goods.
People want a reality check. And I think if you were to contrast both candidates, whether you like the dark message coming from Trump or not, It does seem --
PHILLIP: Let me --
SINGLETON: To be more realistic for what most people are.
PHILLIP: Let me ask you guys to hold your thoughts on that.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
PHILLIP: Because we have a whole block ahead where we're going to talk about exactly that. Everyone stick around for me. Coming up next, what Harris didn't mention once tonight in her final pitch.
Plus, Trump suggests that he's on board with RFK Jr. banning some vaccines and fluoride in your water and endorsing junk science in the process. Another special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:18:40]
PHILLIP: Bringing joy back. Tonight, Kamala Harris is driving home her closing argument, and there's something conspicuously absent from it. The name, Donald Trump. Harris aide telling me tonight that this is intentional. They want to close out the race totally positive in their words and the rally this evening was the first time that she did not mention her opponent's name since becoming the nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's also make no mistake. This campaign is not just about us versus Donald Trump. This campaign is about who we fight for. We are ready for a president who knows that the true measure of a leader is not based on who you beat down, it is based on who you lift up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Here's the thing, if you are the Harris campaign and Donald Trump is doing what we discussed in the last block, why would you not make that contrast as clear as day as possible? Because Trump is making the argument for you that you don't have to go negative. Trump is going negative on himself.
CARDONA: Well, exactly. That's exactly right. She doesn't need to, you know, what's so interesting about this conversation is that two days ago, I heard from strategists, even in our own party who were saying, oh my god, she shouldn't be talking about, you know, the negativity of Donald Trump.
She needs to focus on herself. She needs to bring the joy back. Now that she's brought the joy back, you have people saying, oh, well, she should be making the contrast.
I think they have run this campaign incredibly well, and they have the data. They understand what people want. And to your point, when you have Donald Trump fellating a microphone and talking about how they want, he wants to shoot Liz Cheney and talking about --
JENNINGS: He did not.
CARDONA: How Puerto Rico is an island of trash --
[22:20:31]
PHILLIP: He didn't say that.
JENNINGS: He didn't say that he was going to shoot Liz Cheney.
PHILLIP: He didn't say that she wanted to shoot Liz Cheney.
CARDONA: Okay. PHILLIP: There was another analogy he was making about Liz Cheney.
CARDONA: That she should face a firing squad.
JENNINGS: He didn't say that.
CARDONA: That's not better. But anyway --
JENNINGS: He didn't say she should face a firing squad.
PHILLIP: Hold on one second. We discussed -- Hold on one second.
CARDONA: What I'm saying is that he doesn't need to make a (inaudible) --
PHILLIP: Hold on one second, we talked about this on Friday.
SINGLETON: Can we do a correction here, Abby?
PHILLIP: I'm trying to, let me talk --
SINGLETON: I'm sorry, I'm sorry (inaudible)
PHILLIP: I'm trying to if you would let me talk, look, the comments that he made about Liz Cheney, as we discussed on the show on Friday, after he made them, he talked about how she's sending people to war. How would she feel if there were guns pointed at her? Those comments, I mean, were not appropriate.
They weren't a firing squad, but they were also not appropriate. But what is your, you were saying that she is, she's running on a negative campaign --
CARDONA: Well --
There. They're, they're actually pivoting --
CARDONA: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Into the final stages right now.
JENNINGS: Yes, yes.
PHILLIP: And that's the message.
JENNINGS: Here with a handful of hours to go. I mean, she doesn't have to attack Donald Trump, I guess, because she's done it every single day of the campaign since she got into it. It has been a relentlessly negative and relentlessly dishonest campaign.
And here at the end they want credit for trying to be positive and unifying after a week of Republicans are Nazis, Republicans are garbage, Republican women are weak and stupid, so I get it I understand why they would want to tout this one time that she didn't relentlessly go negative and dishonest against Donald Trump. But to me the bulk of the campaign is obvious. It is, they're betting all their chips on there's just enough people in the country who hate or are willing to fear Donald Trump to win.
That's about all they've got.
PHILLIP: So wait, are --
CARDONA: That's not true --
PHILLIP: Hold on, is the problem the negativity and the dishonesty? Because if that were the case, then I would expect you to criticize Trump for that too.
JENNINGS: Look, I think Donald Trump has run a campaign of some negativity and also some what I want to --
PHILLIP: Some negativity?
JENNINGS: And I think Kamala Harris has been frightfully vague --
PHILLIP: So, do you think that --
JENNINGS: About what she wants to do.
PHILLIP: Who's been more negative Kamala Harris or Donald Trump?
JENNINGS: Harris, without question.
CARDONA: Oh come on, Scott. Are you serious?
PHILLIP: So Scott, I think that you are a very good representative of conservatives who are more aligned with Trump, obviously, than Harris. But I think that it would be dishonest to not acknowledge that Donald Trump goes up on that stage almost every day. He doesn't even focus on his opponent's policies.
He calls her stupid every day.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JENNINGS: I think it would be --
PHILLIP: Every day. Literally every day.
JENNINGS: And I personally think it would be dishonest not to acknowledge that the bulk of the attacks that Kamala Harris lodges against Donald Trump range from basically dishonest to absolutely, I can't believe they're getting away with this dishonest --
CARDONA: On what?
JENNINGS: On policy on all sorts of things. And I just, I feel like, this goes unacknowledged because of how Trump operates, and I fully admit that he says things that get our attention and sound outrageous --
PHILLIP: That are dishonest and incredibly inaccurate. JENNINGS: But we don't hold her to the same level of accountability --
CARDONA: Because she doesn't say those (inaudible) kind of things.
PHILLIPS: You have (inaudilbe)
JENNINGS: And the bulk of their campaign against Trump has been, it's been, she sits on a throne --
CARDONA: No.
JENNINGS: Of dishonesty when it comes to his agenda. He did not write Project 2025. He did not put it in a book.
He does not hand it out. And that is the bulk of their campaign, and it's ridiculous.
JONES: Well, he did do Agenda 47, which is actually --
JENNINGS: Come on.
JONES: No, that's it. That's it. It's on his website, Agenda 47.
JENNINGS: Yeah, but it's not --
JONES: The -- Hold on a sec. And it's worse --
JENNINGS: This book that they keep talking about.
JONES: And it's worse than the book. It's like, I thought --
JENNINGS: Why?
JONES: Well, because all the stuff that people are mad about in Project 2025, the worst of it is actually in Agenda 47. If you're at home --
CARDONA: Yeah.
JONES: Please Google it. But here's what I would say, you're frustrated with Kamala Harris. You somehow thinks she's been given some kind of a cakewalk.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
JONES: I see it very differently. If Kamala Harris were saying and doing the things that Donald Trump is doing, can you imagine a black woman saying the things that Donald Trump says, doing the things that Donald Trump does? I just, it's inconceivable.
She would be polling at like 2%.
CARDONA: Yeah.
JONES: In our party. And so I just think that we're kind of, through the looking glass, different people see it different ways. I think it's very hard to argue that Donald Trump, that anybody but Donald Trump can get away with the stuff he's doing.
But we're talking about how we're closing. I just want to get back to that. Kamala Harris has made a decision that she wants to close on a positive message.
She keeps being accused that she's too vague.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JONES: She did a two week tour, hitting every media outlet that she could. She put out actual concrete proposals and policies after policies after policies. It was like she turned into Hillary Clinton for about two weeks.
CARDONA: Yeah.
JONES: People still said she was being too vague. And now she's turning to being more positive. I'm not sure that that's a great idea.
But I trust, because I'll tell you why. Because I, Scott thinks that we've been too nice to Donald, I think we should be harder on Donald Trump.
[22:25:12]
PHILLIP: Go hard. Go hard or go home.
JONES: But I do, I think we should be, I think we should. I think we should. Yes?
JENNINGS: But does, do you think there is a single voter out there who has not yet heard enough negativity about Donald, like one more negative thing wouldn't help you win?
JONES: I will talk about it --
PHILLIP: Well --
JONES: In my hot take.
PHILLIP: Let me ask, I think that's a good question for (inaudible). I remember when we, after the town hall that we did with Harris, there were a bunch of Pennsylvania voters and several of them were like, enough with the negativity, we are tired of hearing negative things, even though negativity does work. It does work.
I mean, is it wise for her to go positive at this stage?
ANDERSON: I think so, in part because I think voter views of Donald Trump are so well established. People know how they feel about him. And we have been sitting around tables like this for eight, nine years now --
PHILLIP: Mm-hmm.
ANDERSON: Where Donald Trump says something nutty, and everybody goes, is this the thing that's going to make everybody not like him anymore? And every single time his numbers barely budged. They budged after something big like January 6th.
PHILLIP: Mm-hmm.
But him standing up at a rally and saying something nutty yet again doesn't move it. And so that's why I think for Harris, the question for voters who go, oh, I hate this election, is can she cross a threshold of credibility? Can she cross a threshold of, okay, fine. Maybe I could live with her as president for four years for these remaining double hater voters. But --
PHILLIP: Can I ask you something, Scott?
JENNINGS: Yes.
I mean, you put an op-ed out this past week saying that you will be voting for Donald Trump. I don't think viewers of this program will find that to be a huge surprise. But you also, years ago, said that he was responsible --
JENNINGS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: For an insurrection. How do you square that in your mind?
JENNINGS: Yeah. Well, as I wrote in the LA times, I, look, I was none too pleased with him about that, but there's been other things too. I mean, you know, we've had our ups and downs.
I don't like the things he says about Mitch McConnell. There's a lot of issues.
PHILLIP: But you --
JENNINGS: But what I chose to --
PHILLIP: Just to be clear on the insurrection part, you said he was responsible for it.
JENNINGS: Yeah. Yeah.
PHILLIP: I don't, I mean, he was been mean to Mitch. He's been mean to a lot of people --
JENNINGS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: But an insurrection is a big deal.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: That's a significant thing.
JENNINGS: And what I decided to do in this election was focus on the future. Who do I think would take the country and the government in the basic direction in which I want to go? And yeah, he's going to do things I don't approve of, and he has done things I don't approve of in the past.
But most of the time, a government that he would build would probably do most of what I want. And I think none of the time that's true for Harris. She's given Republicans like me, who don't really come from the MAGA wing of the party, absolutely nothing.
And just to put a point on what I said earlier, the headline that I woke up to this morning in Axios was, the no comment candidate. Harris strategy clouds how she'd govern. She doesn't want voters to know whether she would stick to her old liberal views or govern with new centrist thinking.
I'm a Republican. I'm a conservative. How can I entrust my vote with someone who won't even tell me whether they have a conservative view?
PHILLIP: Well --
CARDONA: That's --
JONES: That's dishonest.
SINGLETON: That headline is dishonest.
CARDONA: So dishonest.
SINGLETON: That's headline is dishonest.
CARDONA: It's ridiculous headline.
PHILLIP: Being told, we gotta go. Okay. All right. Actually, you know what? Go ahead.
SINGLETON: I mean, look. I mean, I think that is a problem though. And to Van's point, the vice president has released a lot of policies.
I've read through many of them. Don't agree with most of them. I think the problem though, Van, for a lot of people out there, when they hear some of those policies, they say, well, you know, the vice president believed something different.
Now granted, people do have the opportunity to change their minds over time.
JONES: Like Trump has.
CARDONA: But see, it's hypocritical --
SINGLETON: But wait a minute. But then people wonder though, is the vice president changing her positions on these issues because she's trying to win the election? Or does she truly believe in these new reforms?
CARDONA: If they listen to her.
SINGLETON: And I think that's a bit of the conundrum --
JONES: That's fair.
SINGLETON: For many of those moderate Republicans out there who may say, you know, I do have an issue with some of Trump's --
JONES: But --
SINGLETON: Pronouncements about various things --
JONES: But you can't --
SINGLETON: About various people.
JONES: But you can't have it both place --
SINGLETON: But on the policies, I don't know if the vice president is the best choice for (inaudible)
CARDONA: That's incredibly hypocritical.
SINGLETON: It's not hypocritical.
JONES: I'd like to say something, please? So you can't have it both ways. You can't say she's the most vague person in the history of the world.
SINGLETON: I didn't say vague.
JONES: Hold on a second, hold on a second.
SINGLETON: Okay.
JONES: The criticism is, she has no policy, she's completely, she won't answer any questions. And then say, you don't like the questions that she answers because you think she's dishonest. You gotta pick a horse and ride it.
Hold on a second, I'm not done.
SINGLETON: Okay.
JONES: You gotta pick a horse and ride it. And I think you are correct that when someone changes their position, they do owe the voter an explanation. And I think that Kamala Harris could have done a better job of giving a narrative for her change, but I think her change, it's, the stuff you're talking about is stuff you said often in 2019 when every Democrat was on a crazy bus.
No Democrats now or have said --
CARDONA: Yeah.
JONES: Anything bad about fracking.
SINGLETON: But voters have forgotten about that.
JONES: I agree with that. I'm agreeing with you. SINGLETON: And again, she's released a lot of policies --
JONES: But --
SINGLETON: But people are skeptical. That's my point.
JONES: But you guys say two things that don't go together. You say she has no policies and you don't trust one (inaudible)
CARDONA: And you know what, actually --
SINGLETON: I just said she has policies. Man, I just said that she does have policies.
CARDONA: But you're also --
SINGLETON: I just think there's a lot of skepticism about some of those policies.
CARDONA: But you're also nitpicking the things that she has said. She has --
SINGLETON: I'm not nitpicking.
CARDONA: She has talked about what she has changed her mind in these last three and a half years, four years that she has been vice president. She has been very clear about that. She has talked about why she believes something in 2019 and why she now believes the policies that she is putting out there.
[22:30:08]
SINGLETON: You know what, Maria?
CARDONA: You know who hasn't said that?
SINGLETON: Who?
CARDONA: Donald Trump.
SINGLETON: I tell you --
CARDONA: Donald Trump who switches --
SINGLETON: I'm willing to bet --
CARDONA: His policy today from what he believed two days ago.
SINGLETON: And you know what, Maria, I'm willing to bet if the vice president did that as effectively as you just articulated, she would be ahead of the former president by five or six points, and she is not.
PHILLIP: All right. We gotta leave it there for this conversation. Kristen Soltis Anderson, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, hang tight. Coming up next, anti vaxxer RFK Jr. insists that he could still be in charge of the nation's health. And some of the discredited conspiracy theories that he supports, well, Trump says that he could support them too.
We have another special guest, an expert, joining us in our fifth seat next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:09]
PHILLIP: Science says vaccines save lives, and science says that fluoride in drinking water is safe at low levels. But science might not be guiding a second Trump administration. The former president is putting a conspiracy nut on the shortlist to be in charge of, you guessed it, science. And in an interview with NBC News today, Trump says that RFK Jr. may have a say so over public health in this country. Dr. Syra Madad is here joining us in our fifth seat. She's an epidemiologist at Harvard Kennedy School. Doctor, thanks for being here because that's exactly what we need for this conversation, is an actual expert. I know that you know all the things that are being said around RFK Jr. But just on the top line of it all, the idea that RFK Jr. would be put inside, in touch, or in charge of health and science in this country. What do you say to that?
DR. SYRA MADAD, EPIDEMIOLOGIST, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL: It's dangerous. And if you look at his track record, first, he's not a medical expert. He's not a public health official. And, you know, he has decades and decades of, you know, spewing rhetoric that is against science. It's against the established scientific evidence that we have. And to have someone that is sharing these types of thoughts and ideas, influencing policy, influencing oversight, is quite dangerous for public health and for all Americans.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, we were talking in the break about, you know, there are a lot of Americans who are concerned about health and safety, whether regulations are really keeping up with the information, whether or not their food is safe, their water is safe. That is being co-opted by people who want to make a conspiracy out of everything. And what do you think about how that should be addressed? I mean, even after all of this?
JONES: Well, look, I think progressives make a mistake when we just roll our eyes and just kind of throw everybody in the same, you know, crazy bucket when people ask tough questions. I think you have low trust voters and you have high trust voters, and low trust voters are also on the progressive side. You have voters who say, listen, all these experts have been telling me stuff that turned out not to be true. They gave me a housing bubble that wiped out all my assets. They had my kid go fight in a war that was dumb. You know, I don't believe everything that we were told during COVID served my child well in his or her school. So you do have people who can say, look, experts have let us down. And so I think that the mistake we make is, then here comes RFK Jr. on the nutty train. And all we do is throw rocks at him, as opposed to saying, you know what? If there's evidence, there's been some corporate capture of some of these agencies. As Democrats, we should go after that. We should actually grab this mantle. We want to make sure that kids are safety. We don't necessarily, you know, brush moms aside if they, I don't know. I'm concerned. I think progressives are making a big mistake. We have left these parental concerns for the right wing to exploit. And I think that we should take them seriously, but not give in to the crazies.
PHILLIP: I do think that you're right about that. But Dr. Madad, tell us about the fluoride of it all.
JONES: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Because I do think there are some rocks to be thrown, frankly, at RFK Jr. about this stuff. Because --
JONES: Fair enough, fair enough.
PHILLIP: Some of it actually is just straight up dangerous on the vaccines. But what about the fluoride?
DR. MADAD: Well --
JONES: Yeah.
DR. MADAD: First, fluoride is a natural occurring mineral. It's not a man-made mineral. And when we talk about adding it to the water supply, it has proven benefits. We have over 75 years of data that has scientifically proven that it has helped you know, with oral hygiene, dental hygiene. And so it helps prevent a decaying cavities, it helps provide just better oral hygiene, it helps with antibacterial properties and the like. And so what it's doing is it's helping both with pain, it's helping with disease and it's helping with costs.
JONES: So --
DR. MADAD: And so these are all really amazing benefits --
JONES: So what is it (inaudible)
DR. MADAD: Across the board.
JONES: So I've got friends who used to be frankly more progressive post COVID. They've become much more conservative about issues just like this. It's almost become a gateway drug to the right to be concerned about some of these health issues. So, what are people's concerns about fluoride and how do you respond, how do you knock those concerns down? Because they're saying all kinds of stuff about fluoride.
DR. MADAD: So, with the current levels that we have in the water supply, and over 70% of the water supply is fluorinated across the United States, it is safe, it's not toxic. When you look at adding in additional, you know, amounts of fluoride, even then, the studies have not proven any significant, you know, health adverse effects. So, at the current levels, there's, across the board, you're seeing meta analysis, epidemiological analysis, observations that have not shown any correlation with any physical or, you know, mental or even oral, you know, effects, poor effects. And when you look at even higher increases, you're just seeing some minor cosmetic issues. So --
PHILLIP: Yeah, I wanna just play one thing. This is from the Trump transition official talking about what RFK wants to do if he gets into the government. Listen.
JONES: Oh lord.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD LUTNICK, TRUMP TRANSITION CO-CHAIR: He said, I want data. I just want data, because they block the data.
COLLINS: But the data is out there.
LUTNICK: Wait, it's not.
[22:40:02]
COLLINS: They don't (inaudible) it --
LUTNICK: He wants --
COLLINS: You can look at it --
LUTNICK: Just wait --
COLLINS: It's online.
LUTNICK: He wants the data so he can say, these things are unsafe. He says if you give me the data, all I want is the data and I'll take on the data and show that it's not safe and that if you pull the product liability, the companies will yank these vaccines right off of the market.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Almost every day now, Trump is doubling down that RFK will have a role in this government. This guy is saying, RFK has a conclusion he's already come to, and he wants to go rummaging through the government's data to find justification for it. That's wild.
CARDONA: And dangerous.
JENNINGS: Yeah, I think that, first of all, he's going to have a role, but whether that is a role alongside a whole bunch of other people.
PHILLIP: Are you comfortable with that?
JENNINGS: Well, look, I've never been the biggest RFK guy because I'm still smarting over the fact that he accused us in the Bush campaign in 2004 of stealing the election in Iowa or Ohio, rather. So, you know, I mean, I remember when he was a left wing conspiracy theorist, not a right wing conspiracy theorist, but I do think this, in any campaign and in any transition, you're going to end up with a bunch of voices who have opinions. What I find sort of politically interesting about all this.
Is that we haven't won the election yet. He's not won anything. And I just sort of think it's not great politics to go out and announce all the offices that you're going to hold --
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JENNINGS: Or all the policies that you're going to force Donald Trump to make because, let me just remind everyone, if Donald Trump wins, he's the boss and he's the president and I suspect he or any other person that wins a presidential election doesn't want to be ordered about on national television.
PHILLIP: In this case though, it's a public service because people have a right to know if that's actually what's going to happen.
JONES: Look, I know Bobby was, he actually wrote the foreword for my first book, I love Bobby. He should be nowhere near America's government.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JONES: He should be nowhere near America's government. And even to have someone like him in the room, muddying the waters, somebody who has an agenda to your point has already come to a conclusion is very, very dangerous. If you are a mom or you're a dad tonight, and you're trying to figure out what, who should I vote for?
Do not vote for somebody who's even pretending he's going to put this person in --
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JONES: Charge of everybody's health care. It would be incredibly reckless even to have him in the room.
PHILLIP: Alright, Dr. Syra Madad, thank you so much for joining us and bringing that context to this conversation. Everyone else, hang tight. Coming up next, Trump says that he's going to punish companies that outsource work to countries like Mexico.
According to a new report, though, that might include Trump media, the company that runs Truth Social. Another guest is going to join us at the table to discuss that.
(COMMERIAL BREAK)
[22:45:00]
PHILLIP: Mexico first, a new report from ProPublica reveals the truth about Truth Social and it's taking jobs out of the United States. So why does that matter? Well, Donald Trump owns Truth Social for starters, and also he's been on the campaign trail promising to punish companies that do exactly what he apparently did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I mean, I've just heard it just recently that John Deere has announced that they're not going to move to Mexico. If they do move to Mexico, they're going to pay a big price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Justin Elliott is here. He joins us at the table. He's a reporter at ProPublica and he helped unearth this new reporting.
So Justin, what's happening here with Truth Social?
JUSTIN ELLIOTT, REPORTER, PROPUBLICA: Yeah, so what we found is that Trump Media, which is the company that makes Truth Social, has outsourced coding jobs to Mexico, and they've also outsourced jobs actually to other countries in the Balkans. And the reason we heard about this, originally is that the Truth Social staff, and these are not, you know, these are not liberal Kamala Harris supporters, these are true believers who are trying to build this alternative social media platform, wrote an internal whistleblower letter to the board of the company complaining that the company led by Devin Nunes, the CEO, former Republican congressman, is betraying allegedly America First principles. So the staff is outraged about what's going on.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, first of all. You can find coders in the United States. So what would the rationale be for outsourcing these jobs?
ELLIOTT: You know, the company hasn't really given, the company knowledge, by the way, that they did hire coders in Mexico. They said it's currently a small number, although it's unclear how many there were in the past. But Devin Nunes, the CEO has previously, sort of bragged about how cheaply they were able to build this platform.
You know, they didn't engage with questions about why they've been hiring people abroad instead of Americans. And the board, by the way, who received this whistleblower letter includes people like Donald Trump Jr., Linda McMahon, prominent people in Trump world, and it's not really clear what they've done in response to these concerns. Devin Nunes is still the CEO, there was a lawyer brought in to ask some questions, some people were fired, there's allegations about retaliation internally.
So, you know, basically we don't know the answer to that question.
PHILLIP: Yeah. But it sounds like --
ELLIOTT: Yeah.
PHILLIP: It's cost, cost reasons, which is why most companies do that.
CARDONA: This, I think, underscores one of the big messages of the Kamala Harris campaign, which is, here is Donald Trump, who talks such a big game in terms of immigration. This all has to do with the immigration issue and punishing companies that are going to outsource that will, you know, send their companies and their businesses overseas. When in fact a lot of that actually happened when he was in the White House. But this is not a man who is serious about solutions. He talks a big game and then he's incredibly hypocritical about what actually happens. This --
PHILLIP: I mean, the Trump Bible's not made in the US.
CARDONA: Exactly.
PHILLIP: I mean --
[22:50:02]
CARDONA: And so, one of the vice president's biggest messages here is that Donald Trump is unserious and the issues that he talks about and then the solutions that he talks about. And in fact, that he actually really, it's doubtful that he really wants to fix things. And then she talks about what she wants to do.
And this completely underscores that.
SINGLETON: Look, I think two things can be true here. He's not running the day to day operations of the business. I do understand why you would potentially want to outsource certain sectors of a business for financial reasons.
CEO, you have that fiduciary responsibility. I can understand why Democrats would argue that it undercuts the message of wanting to keep jobs within the United States. But I do think a different perspective I have here, Abby, is it does a little bit challenge the former president's disposition on tariffs, particularly China and Mexico.
I'm not a big fan of the former president's position on tariffs. I understand strategically speaking, how some level of inserting tariffs could make things a bit more competitive between two adversarial nations. But I think more importantly, it suggests that if you want to keep jobs in America and pay Americans, it is going to cost a bit more.
And I guess the question becomes for a lot of CEOs of larger corporations, are they willing to spend more within the country domestically to pay American workers what they're worth, or are they more prioritizing their bottom line, which is what most CEOs are worried about.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, that's, look, that, this is a macroeconomic problem.
SINGLETON: Yeah.
That Trump has reduced --
SINGLETON: Yeah, but --
PHILLIP: Down to tariff, tariff, tariff, but his company is experiencing it. I mean, Justin, real quick, give me a sense though, this, Trump media, there are a lot of questions about the sort of legit --
JONES: Say --
PHILLIP: Nature of this company.
CARDONA: Mm-hmm.
JONES: Say that, say that, say that.
PHILLIP: I mean, how many, is it, do they have a lot of employees? Do they have a few employees?
CARDONA: And aren't they losing a ton of money?
ELLIOTT: Yeah, it's definitely not profitable and they have almost no revenue, but, you know, sort of paradoxically, it's become one of these meme stocks where, you know, the company is now worth, I think, six or $7 billion on paper market capitalization.
CARDONA: Oh my god.
ELLIOTT: So it's actually now again, on paper. Something like half of former President Trump's entire fortune is his 60% --
PHILLIP: And say that again, it has almost no revenue and is (inaudible) --
ELLIOTT: Yeah, I think it's been, yeah, I think it's been said that it has the revenue of like a Chick-fil-A, like a single Chick-fil-A. But --
CARDONA: Wow.
ELLIOTT: But I will say, I mean it sounds, but I think --
JENNINGS: They do pretty well though.
ELLIOTT: I think -- Yeah, exactly.
CARDONA: One Chick-fil-A.
PHILLIP: I'll take the Chick-fil-A.
CARDONA: One franchise.
ELLIOTT: This company, though, I mean, especially if Trump wins on Tuesday, I think is going to be incredibly important. So not only is it a huge part of his fortune, but even though they have almost no revenue right now, you could easily see a scenario where if Trump is president again, people could, you know, buy $10 million worth of ads on Truth Social as a way to curry favor with the president. And these are, you know, the numbers we're talking about with this company are much larger than anything we talked about with the hotel room stays from the first term.
CARDONA: That brings up a whole other host of issues.
PHILLIP: A whole can of worms, Justin. Thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else stay with us, coming up next.
The panel will give us their nightcaps, including a eulogy for a rodent.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:57]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the News Nightcap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Scott, you're up.
JENNINGS: Well, I'm here tonight to speak on behalf of Peanut the Squirrel --
JONES: Mm-hmm.
JENNINGS: God rest his tiny soul, not since the squirrel that was taught to water ski has a squirrel caught the nation's attention like this one.
JONES: Mm.
JENNINGS: Now this squirrel was squirrelnapped and murdered by the state of New York, an absurd abuse of government overreach. There are 40 million rats or something in New York, and they executed the only one trained to wear a cowboy hat and had an Instagram account.
PHILLIP: Mm.
JENNINGS: My condolences to Mark Longo, who cared for Peanut for seven years. And to the cowardly neighbors who filed the complaints about Mr. Longo's animals, which also included Fred the raccoon, I ask, why are you the way that you are? I hope you're happy, you monsters.
RIP Peanut.
PHILLIP: I'm not gonna call Peanut a rat, but --
JONES: Well done. And I agree. Scott earlier said that nobody could say anything more negative about Donald Trump.
And I disagree. In fact, Kamala Harris, I believe, left an argument on the table that there's a Donald Trump crackdown coming. And if you want to get young black men's attention, point out that Agenda 47 says you're going to mandate stop and frisk for every cop in America.
You're going to have blanket immunity for every cop so that no matter what they do to you, you can't sue them. Federal prosecution for street crime, bedtime for your cousin hanging out with the wrong people, and death penalty for drug sellers. That is a Trump crackdown.
If you don't lecture black men but listen to black men, you would have learned that the best possible slogan is, Donald Trump wants to lock you up, Kamala Harris wants to lift you up.
PHILLIP: Alright.
SINGLETON: We talked a little bit about the vice president now pivoting her closing argument to the American people. Just a week ago, she talked about character in the democracy. The new Siena poll revealed that those are only 8%, 6% in terms of importance for the average voter.
I think what this suggests is that the internal polling from the Harris campaign says that this isn't the message that most voters want to hear, want to listen to, or motivated by. I think it was just strategically smart for her to pivot. Will it make a difference numerically this late in the game?
I'm not sure.
PHILLIP: Alright, Maria.
[23:00:06]
CARDONA: But what voters do want to hear about is Kamala Harris and Maya Rudolph's TikTok that they did after SNL.
SINGLETON: Well --
CARDONA: The reason why it was so phenomenal is that I found out about it from my 17 year old daughter Maya Luna, who the very next day said, Mama Mira, and she loved it. And so one of those people is going to be the next president of the United States.
PHILLIP: I didn't think it's Maya Rudolph, but everyone, thank you very much. Coming up next, Laura Coates Live.
