Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Republicans To Block Release Of Gaetz Ethics Report; Senate Democrats Ask FBI To Release File On Gaetz Investigation; Trump Has So Far Picked Zero Black Americans for Cabinet; Last Scene Of Biden Presidency Unfolds; Bill Clinton Says In An Interview That the First Female President Would Be A Republican. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired November 20, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:08]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, in the dark, Republicans move closer to keeping an ethics report hidden, as Democrats turn to the FBI to shine some sunlight on Matt Gaetz's alleged misdeeds.
Plus, two Dougs, a Matt, a Marco, a Pete, a Mike, one Tulsi, a Linda and no African-Americans. The Trump cabinet shuns the diversity of the new MAGA coalition.
Also, it ain't over until it's over. But as the Biden presidency nears its end, the president already appears in the rear view mirror.
And Bill Clinton calls his wife's and Kamala Harris' White House runs casualties of the culture wars.
Live at the table, Julie Roginsky, T.W. Arrighi, Sarah Matthews, Bruce LeVell and Denver Riggleman.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abbey Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, under pressure. Tonight, it's pushing down on Republicans they don't want the terror of knowing what's in the House Ethics report about the man that Donald Trump wants to be his attorney general, Matt Gaetz. Senator Lindsey Graham encouraged his colleagues not to join the, quote, lynch mob and let the Gaetz confirmation crawl forward. Senator Josh Hawley also big on the process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Listen, if you have concerns, it's fine. But don't make up your mind yet. Let the guy testify first.
No, listen, I think that the president is entitled to his cabinet, entitled to his picks. My presumption is I'll vote for all the president's nominees, but, again, let's let him have the shot to answer all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Gaetz himself thinks everything is going just fine, even as The New York Times reports tonight that federal investigators followed the money from Gaetz's Venmo to women allegedly paid for sex.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT GAETZ, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I'll be honest with you, I've been focused on what we've got to do to reform the Department of Justice. I've been meeting with senators. I haven't been paying much attention to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: To quote J.D. Vance here, the incoming vice president, Donald Trump just won a major electoral victory. His coattails turned the Senate 49-51 to 53-47. He deserves a cabinet that is loyal to his agenda. He was elected to implement. Does he?
SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: I think you can argue, okay, Donald Trump won the popular vote, he deserves this mandate. That doesn't necessarily mean he gets free reign. Look, it is the job of the Senate to advice and consent, and when they put up these kinds of extreme or unqualified people for these posts, then I think that they have every right to vet them properly. And someone like a Matt Gaetz, look, he's not only not qualified for the position, I mean, the closest he's been to a criminal investigation is being on the receiving end of one. And then at the same time, those that have served with him know him to not be a person of good character.
So, this is a nomination that should not get through, but obviously with the Ethics Committee voting to not release the report, it seems like Republicans are going to protect him.
PHILLIP: All right. And do you think that Republicans ultimately will just rubber stamp this one? They've got The New York Times documents, they've got basically a whole ethics report that's just waiting, that has all the evidence. And Susan Collins today, let's just play what she had to say, it was pretty much a warning sign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I was shocked by the nomination given the many allegations, but that's why it's important that the Senate go through its process of making sure that we have a background check, that we have a Senate investigation, which involves extensive interviews and questionnaires, and then a public hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I know exactly what would be great for the Trump administration is to have a long, drawn out public hearing where all of these witnesses from the Ethics Committee will be brought forward to testify perhaps publicly.
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Yes. I don't think many people are under the illusion that much of this report is going to stay under wraps for long. And the trickle of it over time is not going to be good. He already has an uphill battle on Capitol Hill.
[22:05:01]
We all know having been there and served there that Matt Gaetz doesn't have a ton of friends up there. He already is the -- yes, to put it mildly, he has a really tough math problem to get over 50, especially if you're losing Collins and Murkowski right off the jump.
Look, I get it. Donald Trump wants somebody who's going to have his back, doesn't exactly trust the FBI from Comey through post-presidency and lawfare, I get it. But this guy doesn't have what it takes to get through, in my opinion. So, he is going to have to sit in front of the Senate and take the hit.
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: First of all, he's a horrible criminal. Who Venmos women for sex? I mean, if you're going to commit that kind of crime, which, by the way, I think it still is a crime --
BRUCE LEVELL, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TRUMP'S NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION 2016: Do we know that?
ROGINSKY: Apparently, according to The New York Times, he was --
LEVELL: According to The New York Times? Oh boy that's credible.
ROGINSKY: All right. Well, if you're now not going to believe it --
PHILLIP: I think we showed it earlier, but we'll show it again. I mean, this is not even like a -- it's not like a Venn diagram. It's just like a spider web.
ROGINSKY: Yes, so my point is, is this really the best we can do? I mean, seriously, is this the best we can do? Somebody who has real allegations, but wait a second, he has real allegations of having underage sex, according to people who are Republicans on the House floor, including, you know, Markwayne Mullin, who is now a senator, who I don't know, doesn't sound like he's not going to vote for him, said that he would go on the House floor, show pictures of these women, show Viagra that he used to grind up, and I quote, so he could go all night. That's who you want to be your attorney general, because that's what Donald Trump deemed should be your Attorney General?
I mean, the Senate can't bend the knee to a co-equal branch of government. They have a responsibility. That's how the founders envisioned it. And if they bend the knee to this, then what is the point of advice and consent? And what is the point of everything that was written about in the Federalist papers, everything that's in the Constitution? Nothing. They have a responsibility to do the right thing here, which is to say to the president, Mr. President, you get to choose your cabinet, but we have advice and consent powers, and we do not consent to Matt Gaetz. Find somebody else of similar ideology who doesn't have problems with potentially sleeping with underage girls, doing drugs and going to sex parties.
PHILLIP: It's kind of a profile of the type of person that -- these are allegations from Matt Gaetz. But this would be the type of person the FBI would be, or the DOJ would be investigating.
ROGINSKY: Of course.
LEVELL: So, the DOJ investigates -- the Merrick Garland DOJ, they investigate this --
PHILLIP: Just to be clear, this investigation began under Donald Trump.
LEVELL: Okay. And all during -- the bottom line is the DOJ said there's nothing there.
ROGINSKY: No, they didn't.
LEVELL: That's -- yes, they did.
ROGINSKY: They said they didn't have enough to indict. That shouldn't be the standard.
LEVEL: No, it's a charge, dear.
ROGINSKY: Okay, (INAUDIBLE). Excuse me. Oh, well, for the compliment. That's fine.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Hold on. I'm just going to stop it right here because we're not going to get off on a wrong foot. Please do not address a grown woman as dear in a condescending tone. Do not do that at my table.
You can continue.
FMR. REP. DAVID RIGGLEMAN (R-VA): I was going to say for me, you know, Abby, my background is intelligence, and a lot of times when we track bad actors is through financial networks. So, once you have a follow the money diagram there, you're screwed. It ain't going to happen. And I want to tell you this also. It's not just the fact that he used public Venmo to actually, I guess, engage in statutory rape, right.
And there are credible threats here, right, and there's credible accusations. What about the other things that he's done? This is a guy who hired Darren Beattie right after he was kicked out of the Trump administration for cavorting with white nationalists, right? This is a person who said that they were using facial recognition to track Antifa in January 6, which is a lie. I know a little bit about biometrics. That's just B.S, right? This is a guy who believes in the fedsurrection. He's a guy who thought that the FBI was behind some deep state false flag to actually overtake the government or overtake the Capitol. So, you've got somebody who's incredibly flawed, he doesn't know the difference between fact and fiction. He certainly has a problem with sexual crimes. And there's a reason they're not releasing the ethics report. I get it with the DOJ and I get it with the -- they can't -- don't have the ability to indict. But I've been in a public and trusted investigation beyond the January 6th committee. You can still have massive evidence, right, on things that are happening like that. If we want to talk about it, we can. I'm really good at this.
So, the question that you have right now when you're looking at the data and the facts is why don't they release the ethics report. And I want to ask this question. If you're a Christian, and you're somebody who believes that you shouldn't have bad people in positions of power, why are you so afraid to release this? If there's nothing there, why aren't you going to release it? And that's the thing as a Republican, right? Go ahead.
MATTHEWS: To piggyback off of what Denver just said, that's something that really strikes me is that there was a lot of talk today on Capitol Hill about protecting women. Because Nancy Mace introduces this bill to try to ban transgender women from using restrooms. They want to keep it to biological women only. If Republicans care about protecting women, then why on Earth are we allowing a nomination like this to move forward? A man who is accused of having sex with a minor?
His colleagues loathe him. They know this. Privately, they can't stand the guy. And they know that he is not only a bad person, but unqualified for the role. And if they want to protect women, then they should keep a man like this, accused of these kinds of crimes, as far away from the Department of Justice.
PHILLIP: It is so interesting because, I mean, the Pete Hegseth report about some of his potential troubles was that the White House or the Trump campaign was surprised that they didn't know a lot of this.
[22:10:01]
The Matt Gaetz allegations, a lot of this has been out there. These allegations are kind of known. And if they had talked to their Republican colleagues on Capitol Hill, I'm sure they would've gotten warnings, but they went ahead anyway.
LEVELL: But, you know, Abby, this is why this is all part of the process. And, listen, that, you know, Matt Gaetz served eight years in the Oversight Judiciary Committee. You know, he's qualified to be -- and, listen, I'm going to tell you right now --
PHILLIP: He's qualified to do what?
LEVELL: he's been there eight years in the Judicial Oversight. He has put people under the fire and ask those uncomfortable questions. That's the kind of person we need, you know? So, you want -- this is refreshing, to get a Matt Gaetz that will ask the uncomfortable question. The reason why he can do that is because he's not tied to these pay-to-play folks, like these other folks have been historically. This is why he's able to move around the way he does and question his witnesses on the stand because he's not tied to these folks.
PHILLIP: The job of the attorney general is not to performatively question people in a congressional hearing. It is a massive law enforcement agency. It is the law enforcement agency, not of Donald Trump, but of the United States government. So, I think the question is, what qualifications does he have to do that?
LEVELL: Well, you saw when he talked to the FBI director, when he asked the questions about the laptop, you know. And we need an attorney general that's going to ask the uncomfortable questions. And this is what Matt Gaetz brings.
ROGINSKY: You can't find one attorney general who can ask uncomfortable questions who hasn't been alleged to have had sex with a minor?
LEVELL: Well, he's the president's nominee.
ROGINSKY: The president can't find one other Republican to do this?
LEVELL: He's the president's nominee. This is who he's choosing. We're going to go through the process, ladies and gentlemen. This is why they have hearings.
PHILLIP: Do you think Matt Gaetz is going to be confirmed?
LEVELL: Yes, I do. Yes, I do, absolutely.
RIGGLEMAN: You were talking about being on the judicial committee. I got some experience with committees. This is a guy who used Chinese propaganda to question witnesses. He didn't even know the difference between Chinese propaganda and real sourcing. So, do you want an A.G. up there who doesn't even know the difference between some fake rag that's coming out of China or real source material?
And I think, again, that goes back to, you just got to call into question. There's other nominees out there. By the way, how many people voted for Donald Trump? 79 million people. There are 78,999,999 people more qualified than Matt Gaetz. Every single person that voted for Trump is better than Matt Gaetz.
ARRIGHI: Actually, I'm going to take a little different spin on this. My problem actually isn't with the qualifications and ability to do the job. My problem is with the person. That is the disqualifying factor. I mean, you can pick no shortage of cabinet secretaries in history who were unqualified. Heck, Robert F. Kennedy Sr., 35 years old, didn't do anything really legal, like and we're saying, and he was a great attorney general. He won't be a good attorney general because he's not -- I don't make a character reference, I haven't met him personally, but what I've seen, I have a pretty good idea, he's not the right man for that job.
PHILLIP: All right, guys.
LEVELL: Based on rumors, yes. PHILLIP: Coming up next there are more white men named Doug in Trump's cabinet than African-Americans. So, we'll discuss the lack of diversity there.
Plus here, why a bit of why Bill Clinton says a Republican will be America's first female president and why he says his wife and Kamala Harris ultimately lost.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, lack of diversity and exclusion. Donald Trump made inroads in communities of color, of course, this last election, but now the president-elect is stocking his cabinet with mostly one color, white. Just take a look at the cabinet level appointments and basically all of them look like the other. Only two of them are women, no black men or women.
Look to all of the Trump appointments and the trend basically holds up. It could be attributed to conservatives' years-long crusade against DEI efforts in the workplace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Corporate America has found out quickly that the diversity, equity, and inclusion game is not only a hand grenade of lawsuits but it's an unproductive waste of time and incredibly divisive to the corporate culture. They're just using diversity as cover to discriminate against straight white males.
STEVE MOORE, CHIEF ECONOMIST, FREEDOMWORKS: We just move, need to move towards a situation where people are hired and also promoted on the basis of their merit.
SEAN DUFFY, FOX BUSINESS HOST: You want American excellence and American excellence always came from merit, not from these DEI strategies.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: The DEI industrial complex is going to destroy any institution where it's allowed to operate and thrive because earned success will be over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, is that merit-based hiring being applied at the White House today? Are Trump's cabinet picks the most qualified candidates? Bruce, are there no qualified black people to join the cabinet?
LEVELL: What are we, two weeks into November 5th putting this cabinet together, we're not even eighth through there. Who is Marco Rubio? Cuban-American? Who is Susie Wiles? the first, you know, woman female chief of staff. Who is Tulsi Gabbard?
PHILLIP: But just to be clear, I mean, he's not at the beginning of the process. He's gone pretty fast. He's named a lot of people to cabinet posts. There are actually only a couple of openings left, labor, treasury and HUD at cabinet level positions.
LEVELL: Right. So, would we rather have someone very well qualified regardless of whether -- what color they are? I mean, see, that's the thing right here. This is something where --
PHILLIP: I guess what I'm asking you is, are you saying -- by saying that, are you saying there are no people of color, except for Marco Rubio that you could find to join his cabinet?
[22:20:00]
LEVELL: Since you brought that up, I listed those specific people where they're from and their origin. But let me tell you something. We're only interested in the best qualified. See, that's the problem. The identity -- yes, we are.
ROGINSKY: That is they're best qualified?
LEVELL: Yes. That's why we got elected. That's why Trump got reelected.
PHILLIP: Let me ask you one more time. Are you saying, are you suggesting, sitting here at this table, that the best qualified, the only qualified people that Donald Trump could find are, with the one exception, all white? There are no black or brown or non-white people other than Marco Rubio that Donald Trump (INAUDIBLE) qualified?
LEVELL: There are many people of different cultures that are qualified. We are interested in the people that he wants to select to do the job.
PHILLIP: Whether they're qualified or not?
LEVELL: What I see when I see success is when I see a predominantly black community own retail commodity infrastructures. We're interested in getting America for everyone, especially, yes, in black culture. I'm a business owner in Atlanta for 30 years. I'm interested in seeing people who own gas stations, grocery stores, that type of administration. It doesn't matter about what color they are. It's a matter about who can go in there and be the best steward of the taxpayers' money. Who cares what origin, what -- who cares? As long as they're there and they do the job.
MATTHEWS: I don't think (INAUDIBLE) what color they are. I think it's just the only qualification Donald Trump is looking at is loyalty. He just wants people who are loyal, maybe secondary qualification, people who are good on T.V.
LEVELL: Well, these aren't very successful business people that he was selecting. That's proven.
MATTHEWS: But except they're loyalists to him. I will say he can fill out his cabinet with whoever he wants because he does feel like he was given this mandate winning the popular vote. He's probably feeling invincible because he's got control of both chambers. He's not up for reelection again. So, he wants people that he wants. And it's been hilarious seeing all the discourse of Trump is playing 4D chess and putting up crazy picks to get a secondary picks. It's not what's happening. These are the people he wants. I don't think color had anything to do with it. I think these are just loyalists and he wants people who will be yes men and women and not push back on his --
LEVELL: He wants the best qualified for the job.
ROGINSKY: But can I ask you a question? Is there anything that Donald Trump can possibly do that you could criticize, like any of these picks, anything about them? Because it sounds to me very much like I could think about ten things --
LEVELL: How many Senate confirmation hearings have we had?
ROGINSKY: I can think about ten things that Joe Biden has -- but wait a second, I can think about ten things that I could say Joe Biden should have done differently. Is there one thing that you could think that Donald Trump in his entire life could have done differently? Because it sounds to me like everything that Donald Trump does, regardless of how unqualified, regardless of these allegations, regardless of the fact that we've had a bipartisan investigation into Matt Gaetz, that, by the way, the former Republican speaker of the House said that Matt Gaetz got him out because he wanted -- Matt Gaetz wanted him to kill the investigation into him sleeping with underage girls. That is the former speaker of the Republican House who said that. And yet you're saying that there's absolutely nothing in the world that Donald Trump can possibly do. He's infallible. He's speaking like the ex cathedra and appointing these horrible unqualified people.
LEVELL: No, successful business people, successful --
ROGINSKY: Who? Matt Gaetz is a successful business person? Tulsi Gabbard is a successful business person?
PHILLIP: Conveniently ignoring the people who are on the list who are controversial. I mean, we just got finished talking about Matt Gaetz.
LEVELL: Well, that's an opinion, Abby.
PHILLIP: There's Pete Hegseth, who people in the Pentagon, it's a massive agency, millions of employees say has absolutely no qualifications to do that level of the job, Tulsi Gabbard, similarly, no qualifications to do the job that she's been hired for. I mean, we could go on and on but --
ARRIGHI: but building off that and sort of in the realm of what Sarah was saying, I do think the big question he's asking is, are you willing to shake things up at these agencies as I have campaigned on? I am sure there are tons of well-qualified people of all different ethnic backgrounds and genders who could do the job that they want to do. But Trump knows each of these people very well. And his number one question is not your identity, it is, do I know you and can I trust you to shake up these agencies in my image as I see fit? And I think that's the crux of it.
But I want to bring up one more thing.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ARRIGHI: Diversity of thought within this administration is bananas. If you think of RFK, if you told me in 2008 that somebody Barack Obama was considering for a cabinet appointment and staunchly pro-choice was going to be the head of HHS under a Republican president in 2024, I'd say you were insane. Not only that. You have Hegseth at DOD versus Rubio, far more establishment at State. You have Gabbard at DNI. And you have Waltz as the national security adviser.
PHILLIP: Okay. But --
ARRIGHI: Totally different (INAUDIBLE).
PHILLIP: I mean, I understand that. In every Cabinet for every president, there are people with differences of opinion. Barack Obama made his defense secretary a Republican, okay? So, that happens, right? But the question is, we're looking at the whole wide world here, Donald Trump improved with Latino voters dramatically in this election, he's been improving incrementally with black voters. Why not?
[22:25:00]
Why can't he find a loyalist? I'm not saying don't pick a loyalist. Pick a loyalist, but why does the whole cabinet have to look the same way?
RIGGLEMAN: Listen, say an RFK Jr. has diversity thought, I think, is like saying Jeffrey Dahmer had cuisine differences. I mean, it's ridiculous, right? And I think if insanity and diversity of thought are synonyms now, I think that's where we're at. Also, if you're looking at past performances indicative of future performance, Donald Trump ran all the competent people out of his last administration. I mean, we've gone from Mattis to Hegseth.
So, to me, this isn't really a surprise. These are loyalists. And if you look at their background, they are opinions. I absolutely agree with you, but they're informed opinions based on resumes, C.V.s and what they've done in their past and what their past decisions have been. That's how you judge people.
And when you look at what Donald Trump's doing right now, I think he fears people like Hirschman, he fears people like Mattis, he fears people like the lawyers, he fears people like Sarah Matthews, right, that were up there and said, hey, this is the shite that's going on right now and there's something we got to do about it and I think he's picking people now that are loyal. I think he learned a lesson. I think it's not DEI hires like it's BTK hires. I think it's been the need.
MATTHEWS: To piggyback off of this, I think that I swore an oath to the Constitution when I took a role in Donald Trump's administration, the first one. These people are swearing a loyalty pledge to Donald Trump. And so that's what concerns me about who he's filling out in his cabinet. Sure, there are some good picks. I'm willing to give credit where credit is due. But I think that the vast majority of them are unqualified or extreme and there's going to be no guardrails.
PHILLIP: All right, guys. Everyone hang on.
Coming up next, with exactly two months until Biden hands the keys to the White House back over to Donald Trump, what's up with the president's vanishing act in recent weeks? We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:09]
PHILLIP: Tonight, fade to black, the last scene of the Biden presidency is happening right before our eyes, except that it's like an arthouse film playing out on a single screen, meaning we're not seeing much of it.
The President is dodging reporters. He's a no-show at photo ops and major international summits and deciding to make major decisions to arm and equip Ukraine entirely out of view and out of scrutiny, as well.
This is the end. I mean, any lame duck presidency is what it is. But Joe Biden has been kind of receding. And it does make you wonder if he is seeding also, how his legacy is going to be framed in the process.
ROGINSKY: Watch how it's done. I think what Joe Biden is doing is wrong. I'm saying that as a Democrat because --
LEVELL: Thank you, Jesus.
ROGINSKY: Yes, thank you, Jesus, because I could criticize my side.
PHILLIP: The point is you can learn a thing or two.
ROGINSKY: Yes, this is an instructive lesson for some people who will not criticize their leader, which is to say that Joe Biden should be absolutely telling the American people why he has chosen to arm Ukraine.
I happen to be glad that he's doing it, but I think there needs to be an explanation to the American people as to why he's taking this very important critical step to do with a foreign adversary like Russia, obviously protesting tremendously.
And there is something to be said for the fact that it can't be the rest of us telling the American people that Joe Biden had a successful presidency, which I think he has overall. It needs to be Joe Biden telling the American people if he's capable of doing that.
I think the communication shot at the White House has been awful from the get-go, but the White House today needs to go out there and remind people that he's still the President, he's still making decisions, and that those decisions have tremendous consequences for our foreign policy or for our domestic policy. So, I, you know, I hope the White House will do something between now and January 20th to remind people who actually is in charge because he still is.
LEVELL: And that's the question -- is he really in charge now? I mean, after all, they told him that you can't run again, and he's too old. Well, someone did. He didn't run again. So, you know, they put Kamala in the place of him, of course, she lost.
But is he really in charge? That's the question. They said they never admitted that this man had that was sick. No one ever admitted it. And so, we don't know what's going on.
ROGINSKY: How do you know that he's sick? He said he's sick.
LEVELL: I mean, come on, here we go. PHILLIP: I don't think we can say -- let me -- let me just say, I mean, you can criticize his stamina, his ability to be president. I don't think anybody has said he's sick. I mean --
MATTHEWS: I think, too, there's a difference between him making a decision to not run again for a second term and then is he able to carry out the job currently and finish his term. And look, he followed through on a campaign promise that he made.
I was happy to see that because he told voters in 2020, look I'm a bridge to the next generation and then he was breaking that promise. And so, I'm happy he followed through finally, you know, three months before the election, obviously, a little too late.
But I think that that was the difference that people try to associate with, oh, him not making a decision to run again, that he isn't up to the job. But I think it was just, oh, can he serve another four years?
ARRIGHI: Why are we acting like he was all over the place before this? Like he wasn't. Like he was campaigning in highly scripted choreographed moments. He clearly is diminished.
Everyone with two eyes and a brain have known, I know people like this in my life. And they wanted this man currently to serve until he was 86 years old, four more years, and they pushed it to four months before the election to do it.
Look, Joe Biden is content in the knowledge that he is the only person to beat Donald Trump. And now he is trying to finish off in the shadows, away from all the infighting of the Democratic Party to do legacy things. Like Ukraine, like the Trump visit and the transition, trying to de-escalate in Gaza. That's what he's focused on. You guys took it out, you stripped this nomination that I earned away from me. I'm the only one to win. Yes, I'm diminished but it's true.
[22:35:02]
PHILLIP: I mean, so on the point of the Trump, I'm not going to take credit for this idea. This was said by our colleague Scott Jennings, but Joe Biden came back onto the scene to run against Donald Trump and to beat him and he did. And now, he ends his term as president with Donald Trump going back into the White House. That's got to be just even psychologically that has got to be very difficult for the President.
DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R-VA) FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I can't imagine it, right? I'm like, what? This -- it has to be deja vu all over again. But you know, for me, the question is actually pretty profound about seeding his legacy. You know, you talk about it, you know, when COVID came in, well, we had 13 percent unemployment, now it's four percent. Inflation had gone down to 2.4 percent.
You're finally starting to see some real things happening good in the American Republic. I do believe he was too old to run again. I think, it's really difficult. I met Joe Biden. I met Donald Trump.
I've had this opportunity to actually, you know, integrate with these teams. And, you know, I find it interesting that I would think that Joe Biden would be out there, but I also think that there was this rift in the Democratic Party.
And I'm going to say some things that might be, might be pretty rough, you know, is that it seemed like they -- Donald Trump is almost 80 and the Republicans got behind him. He's almost 80 and he's saying things that are literally gibberish sometimes, but they still got behind him.
The Biden-Harris split, the internal fighting, the fact that maybe Joe Biden should have gotten out earlier, the fact that Kamala Harris only got 73 to 75 million votes, lost to the Biden coalition. There just seemed to be a split where his legacy will be diminished even as he goes out there and talk about what he's actually doing. I'm just sort of, I don't know, I'm even a little surprised by that, but I do think there's a lot of -- a lot of churn still in the Democratic Party.
ROGINSKY: I think you're absolutely right. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I think the Democrats -- the Democratic Party as a whole has mismanaged the messaging around Joe Biden. I've said this repeatedly around Joe Biden and around his accomplishments since day one. And I think--
PHILLIP: But Biden himself is not --
ROGINSKY: Biden himself was not the communicator he needs to be.
PHILLIP: He went on this big foreign trip, right, with all these world leaders. He missed the G20 photo. And he didn't speak to reporters in a press conference and interview the first time at one of these summits that he's done that.
ROGINSKY: I agree.
MATTHEWS: He might be just checked out at this point because he --
ROGINSKY: He can't be checked out.
PHILLIP: I mean, to Julie's point, though, if the Democratic Party's not going to carry his legacy, then who's going to do it?
ROGINSKY: He can't be checked out because he has about 60 days to put every guardrail that he can put in before Donald Trump comes in. UNKNOWN: Well, it's very -- it's very.
ROGINSKY: And the problem for Joe Biden is no matter how upset and depressed he might be, and I am 100 percent positive of this is -- he's had many tragedies in his life. This is a massive political tragedy for him that he is ceding his legacy to Donald Trump.
He needs to do everything he can right now to ensure that the republic stays as strong as it can be with Donald Trump coming in, on behalf of not the Democratic Party, on behalf of the United States of America and our allies abroad.
And for him not to be out there at the G20, reassuring our allies, and I really hope in private that he was, that the United States is still the country that we believe it can be. I hope he was doing that privately, because I am sure in Denver, you would know this better than I would, that our allies are terrified about what's happening.
And that is up to the leader of this nation right now to reassure them that in four years, so this is not a permanent break to the republic that this is something we'll all have to get through together. I don't know if that's true. I'm not confident that it's true, but I hope to God that it's the President of the States that he's assuring our allies of that and I really hope he's doing that.
LEVELL: The good news is January 20, 2025 is when we swear Donald Trump in. We had no wars. Joe Biden has the war in the Middle East?
PHILLIP: I don't know why you're saying no wars. There were wars.
LEVELL: President Trump is the only president that did not have a war when he was president.
ROGINSKY: Afghanistan.
LEVELL: So, the good news, let me finish, the good news is January 20th. Oh, you mean that mess that they pulled all those folks out?
PHILLIP: Go ahead and finish your thought.
LEVELL: But anyway, that's the great news, is Donald Trump is coming to the presidency of next year in January. That's the great news.
MATTHEWS: Thankfully because he had a really strong cabinet in the first term and now in a second term, I don't know about that.
ROGINSKY: He's going to start -- you're right, he's going to stop the war in Ukraine. He's going to give Russia and Putin everything they want. Let's be clear. Yes.
LEVELL: And we're going to -- we're going to get the peace in the Middle East.
ROGINSKY: Yes.
LEVELL: That's the great news. PHILLIP: Lots of things being said. Lots of things being said there,
but we don't have time to deal with all of them. Everyone hang tight for us. Coming up next, a message from a former president about why a woman has not yet won the White House. And his reason might actually surprise you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it would probably be easier for a conservative Republican woman to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Holden to the past. Tonight, former President Bill Clinton has a guess as to why both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris couldn't shatter that glass ceiling. It has everything to do with their gender and everything to do with the ongoing left versus right culture clash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I think in some ways we've moved to the right as a reaction of all the turmoil. I think if Hillary had been nominated in 2008, she would have walked out just like Obama did.
TRACY SMITH, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Has the country changed?
CLINTON: Well, I think all these cultural battles we're fighting make it harder in some ways for a woman to win.
[22:45:02]
SMITH: So, you think it has more to do with party than gender?
CLINTON: No. Although I think it would probably be easier for a conservative Republican woman to win.
SMITH: Than a Democrat woman.
CLINTON: Because I mean, that's what Maggie Thatcher did. But I still think we'll have a woman female president pretty soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: A lot to unpack there. We'll start at the end. I mean, is he right that maybe the country would be able to deal with a conservative woman more than they could deal with a liberal woman.
ROGINSKY: Yes, I think, and I've thought this for a long time, that it would have to be a Nixon to China kind of moment where a lot of the misogyny on the right that comes out, and it's not just on the right, but it is very much on the right, would be stowed, much like they stow a lot of their beliefs when Donald Trump runs.
They would stow their beliefs if somebody like Sarah Huckabee Sanders ran, and all of a sudden that would disappear and he would be, and she would be elected. And so, I think he is right for that reason.
Unfortunately, I think that the horrible misogyny that you see from some circles, the conservative with a small C, of we've never had a woman before, we've never had a female president before as a commander-in-chief, that would go away if a woman actually were nominated.
I think if somebody like Nikki Haley who had been nominated instead of Trump, which was laughable, it never would have happened, but if she had been nominated, you wouldn't have seen that kind of misogyny directed at her from the right that you see towards Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton.
PHILLIP: Although I will say there was -- there was misogyny directed at --
ROGINSKY: Of course, because she's running against Trump.
PHILLIP: By Trump, by the way.
ROGINSKY: Wilder bird brain.
PHILLIP: But I mean, Nikki Haley, I think, is a very plausible candidate for what he's talking about here.
NATTHEWS: I don't know if the Republican Party, the way it's currently structured, would go for a Nikki Haley candidacy. Obviously, I think if we had put her forth, I think that she would have beaten a candidate Joe Biden or a candidate Kamala Harris. But I will say, I don't know if I agree with the comments that it has to be a woman on the right.
I think it just has to be the right woman. I don't think that anyone at this table would say that Hillary Clinton was a strong candidate. And I think that Kamala Harris was a much stronger candidate in 2024 than she was during the 2019 primaries. But I think that she just wasn't given enough time to prove herself.
ROGINSKY: Can I -- can I just --
LEVELL: Well, Bill Clinton was -- he's right because the Democrats have lost their mind. They've lost their way. And with -- with this craziness and he knows that that's why he's saying that. He knows and then yes, the answer is yes, it's a better chance for a woman as a Republican to win the presidency until they get their house in order. I mean, it's a mess and he admitted it.
ARRIGHI: Yes, and I think I think it'll be a Republican being the first one president just because I'm being a home run out of a Republican. But the second thing is I think it's a cop out to say it was cultural issues that kept Kamala out of the White House because that presumes that she had opinions on the cultural issues and not trying to run away from them.
Look, Michelle Obama would have won. That's just a fact. She would have. Nikki Haley could have won. We are a center-right nation and if you go back to World War II and you look at the Democratic presence that did not come into office via assassination, Watergate or COVID, you are left with JFK, Clinton and Barack Obama.
You need to have an exceptional candidate in this country who is left of center to beat someone who is culturally right of center. That's just the way it's been. We are no more misogynistic or anything else than people of Britain and Margaret Thatcher, than the Italians and George Maloney, than the Germans.
ROGINSKY: Oh, I don't know about that. Let me tell you -- let me -- let me tell you something. Let me just say it. Let me just say this about women and I -- and I truly believe this. Donald Trump, I think, won in large part because he was perceived to be authentic, right? And I think George Bush, who doesn't even drink, was the guy that everybody wanted to have a beer with and he was perceived to be offensive, right? And he was perceived to be authentic. And he still --
UNKNOWN: -- took cocaine at one point. I mean --
ROGINSKY: You got way off track.
UNKNOWN: Hey, I'm just saying.
ROGINSKY: I think it is incredibly hard for women and Sarah and Abby, correct me if you think I'm wrong, to come off as authentic. Because women have to jump through 27 hoops. And "The New York Times" ran a story within five minutes of Kamala Harris' announcement about what she wears.
I mean, there's literally in the style section, this very long story about her Jimmy Choos and whatever else she wears. And how that was all -- how that was all planned and how it gives off, she did this on purpose because it gives a vibe. That shows that if she's so conniving as to plan down to her shoes what she's going to portray, she's not an authentic person. And that applies to every woman out there.
PHILLIP: When I look at Hillary Clinton though, you know, I covered that campaign in 2016. She was -- if you were talking about toughness, she was perceived as tough. She was pretty hawkish in terms of foreign policy, probably closer to Liz Cheney than Donald Trump today in terms of her ideology. You're talking about right of center.
[22:50:07]
So, I mean, I think Hillary Clinton actually understood what Bill Clinton is saying and actually kind of tried to fashion herself in that way, but it still wasn't enough.
MATTHEWS: It was the authenticity factor though, I will say. But go ahead.
RIGGLEMAN: I know everybody's agreed. I'm going to disagree with Bill Clinton. I think -- here's what I'm looking at. If I look at statistics and demographics, right, and you're looking at this sort of, we have this what, 1.5 percent popular vote win by Donald Trump right now, over Kamala Harris. What does she get? She gets second most votes right behind her.
PHILLIP: It's not -- it's not a huge amount.
RIGGLEMAN: It's not a huge amount, right? So, I think though, I think the far-right media ecosystem is so much stronger than the left. I think there's just so much better at that. And I think that they actually coalesce. I was there. I mean, if you're going to run, they're coming behind you regardless, right? I could lick doorknobs and they're going to say, hey, that guy's smart, you know? So -- because they want you to win.
But I think when you're looking at the demographic shift, and I think you're seeing that Democrats, and I think center left, and even independents are starting to see that they're going to have to message that way. And I think with the demographic shifts, I don't honestly believe it's going to be, I don't think it's going to be a Republican woman.
I honestly believe it's going to be an independent to slightly center left woman. I think it's going to be somebody who comes out of the legal profession. And I think with the demographic shifts, I'm going to say right now, and I know it's four against one, I'm going to say the first woman president is going to be a Democrat.
ROGINSKY: Here's how hard it is to be a woman. Talking about Hillary Clinton, right? Hillary Clinton was the most prepared person probably to ever run for president. That woman has never shown up to anything where she hasn't studied 27 briefing books, which is I think what you kind of one of the president, right? And yet she came across as a Tracy Flick.
Kamala Harris showed joy consistently, had a great laugh and she came across as cackling Kamala which more cackle you associate with the witches, you associate with shrews. So, it is impossible to be a woman and not have these kinds of expectations thrust upon you where you don't -- and that's what, you know, that's a big problem for a woman.
PHILLIP: We got to -- we got to go. All right, everyone, stand by. Coming up next, the panel will give us their night caps, including the possibility of a break-up between Donald Trump and Elon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:56:47]
PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNght" cap and you each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Julie, you're up.
ROGINSKY: Well, first of all, don't call me dear. That's my first big update. The second thing is I'm going to actually do a shout out to Marjorie Taylor Greene, who went out there the other day and threatened that if anybody was to release the Matt Gaetz report, that she suddenly was going to release everything and everybody, all the dirt, all the reports, all the sexual harassment stuff.
MTG, I'm with you. Do it. And by the way she voted against the Speak Out Act which my organization pushed really hard which would get rid of pre-disputing NDAs for sexual misconduct, but I'm so glad she had seen the light. Marjorie Taylor Green, I count on you to go out there and help us pass legislation to get rid of NDAs for all toxic workplace issues now that you're such a warrior for transparency, Marjorie Taylor Green.
PHILLIP: Including the United States Congress.
ROGINSKY: Including the United States Congress.
PHILLIP: Let's see what happens. Bruce?
LEVELL: So, good news about college football. The college football fans. So, did you know that 11 out of the 12 teams that are in the playoffs, these states were won by President Trump. So that's good news. Florida, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Indiana, Notre Dame, Ohio, Ohio State, Ole Miss, Boise State, which is Idaho, Brigham Young University, University of Texas, and shout out to the Bulldogs, Kyle, your 2018 team, my son, UGA.
And Oregon, you might have a chance. So that's remarkable that if you, whatever the state the President Trump won, then that's, they're in the playoffs. So next time around, vote for President Trump, you'll make the playoffs.
PHILLIP: Okay. I feel like I have to say something about causation and correlation in this situation, but go ahead.
RIGGLEMAN: No, I -- it's facts. It's facts. So, for me, I want to talk about Blue Sky and the fact that it has over 20 million followers now. I've been actually tracking it seems to me that they sort of cracked the code on going against X. X has allowed all kinds of bizarre algorithms, disinformation, fantasies, a lot of trolls, a lot of far- right awfulness that's on there right now.
I think Blue Sky is going to overtake X soon. I think X is a dying star. I think the name is awful, but I think when you're looking at the CEO of X, female, right, as a public trust organization --
PHILLIP: Of Blue Sky.
RIGGLEMAN: Sorry, Blue Sky. I'm sorry, Blue Sky. I apologize. Blue Sky. I think it's just fantastic what they're doing right now and I think that they're actually fighting back based on the fact that they're building an actual platform that's not driven just by algorithmic targeting.
PHILLIP: All right, so if there are any real people left on X, let me know if I should open yet another social media account. Go ahead.
MATTHEWS: I think my take tonight is going to be SpaceX aborting its Starship catch. Kind of foreshadows the eventual split of Elon Musk and Donald Trump. Look, I know that Donald Trump does not like when people steal the spotlight and try to get credit. And all these headlines out here saying that Elon Musk is co-president and that he's giving input on the cabinet. I just think that's not going to fly with him. We saw this happen with
Steve Bannon when Steve Bannon got the "Time" magazine cover. He was quickly kicked to the curb after. So, I think that this relationship is not going to last and it's going to crash and burn. We'll see if it lasts before he even gets to take office.
PHILLIP: Lady knows what she's talking about. Go ahead.
ARRIGHI: Hello America.
[23:00:00]
Seventy-nine years ago today, the Nuremberg trials began in Germany, giving the world an up close look at the faces of evil. In 2024, we have gotten way too comfortable with comparing our political rivals to people like those 24 Nazis who stood trial. It's ahistorical and it's wrong.
So, with Thanksgiving next week, I urge everyone to show grace to their friends and family whom they disagree with. We are all in this together. We were called by God to love thy neighbor. We don't always have to agree, but if we want to be a more perfect union, we need to love each other.
PHILLIP: That's a good Thanksgiving message for everyone. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
