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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Strong Winds Returning as Crews Race to Contain L.A. Fires; Apocalyptic Scenes Emerge Across L.A. as Strong Winds Return; Criticism of Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-CA) and L.A. Mayor Escalates Amid Deadly Fires. Trump Delivers Another Warning to Hamas As A Deal For Hostages Appears To Be Imminent; Fetterman Visits Trump At Mar-a-Lago. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 13, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, as liberal leaders face backlash over the fires, will their handling of the crisis convert some Democratic voters?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to see a lot of angry campers.
PHILLIP: Plus, President Biden sells his legacy on the global front. But is his successor's bombast selling a hostage deal?
Also, fawning over Fetterman, why is the Pennsylvania Senator suddenly MAGA's favorite Democrat?
And her voice has touched some of America's favorite traditions, idol, football, the Opry. And now, Carrie Underwood is about to step onto the stage of a political pastime.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I, Donald John Trump.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison, John Avalon and Arthur Aidala.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
The backlash against California's leaders is only intensifying tonight as the demand for answers and accountability are growing by the hour.
But we begin with the fears tonight of, quote, explosive fire growth across L.A. Those strong winds that helped fuel the first round of fires, they are returning right now and in the morning. The gusts will be up to 70 miles an hour. And this will be a new challenge, just as 15,000 firefighters and first responders are finally starting to make some progress containing these flames, but that situation has only gotten more grim.
Families are returning to what is left of their homes. Others are desperately searching for their loved ones, dozens of whom are still missing. 24 people have lost their lives in these fires, and the governor says to expect that number to rise.
Tonight, we are seeing harrowing video of a couple's escape from the inferno. What you're about to see here is through their Ring doorbell camera. You'll see the moment that they first spot the fire, the moment those embers show up and what they call 34 minutes of pure terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey babe, I need you to come out here right now. We have a very big problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
Holy (BLEEP).
Oh no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Babe, we got to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God. No.
No. No.
I'm going to spray the roof.
God, please, God, please, God, save us, save our house. Please.
Bye.
Oh no. No.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: Their home did survive despite sustaining some damage, but their neighbors were not as lucky.
I want to go straight to Anderson Cooper, who is live for us tonight in the Palisades. Anderson, tell us about what is happening in that Palisades area that was so devastated by these fires.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's really fascinating. There's 5,300 firefighters still on the scene in the Palisades working to make sure these fires do not come back. Officially, it is 14 percent contained, the fire in the Palisades. That may be misleading because it makes it sound like the 86 percent of the Palisades is still on fire. That is not the case. There is not active fire that you can see. There's not much smoke even, that's why we're not wearing a mask right now, that you can see. What it does mean is that 86 percent of the Palisades is still not secure.
[22:05:01]
And what I witnessed today going out with a strike team in the Brentwood Heights area, Mandeville Canyon area, where there was a fire on Saturday that was very active. One building burned and there was a big fire response. What you see are fire crews now all over the Palisades doing very dirty, very difficult work, but really vitally important work. They are looking for hidden hotspots underneath the soil, just underneath the soil, in the roots of vegetation.
I didn't know this that the vegetation may have burned, but the roots may still be smoldering. And the concern about the winds that you've been hearing about over the last 24 hours, about the winds tomorrow, is that any gusts of winds may blow away some of that ground, some of that dirt, expose that smoldering vegetation that was under the ground and bring it up into the air, and that would be a flaming ember that then would travel and create another fire.
So, you have thousands of firefighters in the Palisades going over every inch of ground, which is what I witness on this mountainside, up and down these mountains, it's like grid searches, looking at the dirt, searching for any hidden hotspots, digging it up, getting water on it. They've been lucky over the last two days with died down winds to be able to prepare this ground as much as possible, search a lot of area, get a lot of water on the ground, get a lot of flame retardant on the ground. But, Abby, as you know, the big concern is what happens in the morning with these winds.
PHILLIP: Yes, exactly. I mean, this is clearly not a threat that has passed. So, what is the prospect now for people in Los Angeles, potentially in the path of these fires, that they might have to evacuate tomorrow because of the winds?
COOPER: Yes. So, the wind is just the big unknown here. I mean, there are estimates from National Weather Service about some gusts in some areas. It could be as high as 70 miles an hour. Locally, they're talking, you know, 30 miles an hour here and there, I think, in or 20 and 30, you know, and degrees matter. If it's 30-mile-an hour winds sustained, or 40-mile-an-hour winds sustained, you can't get aircraft in the air, to get choppers in, to get fixed wing aircraft to drop water and retardant down. So, it really depends on what is going to happen, the vagaries of the wind tomorrow, but there's real hope.
What they're really hoping, certainly the Palisades, is that they get another day without a lot of winds and they can really make progress on containing, on going over all this ground. And then you'll see that number, that percentage contained really go up. But we're just going to be watching it early in the morning all throughout tomorrow what these winds are doing.
PHILLIP: Yes. And, Anderson, you're with our colleague, Gary Tuchman. He's with you.
COOPER: Yes. I want to bring in Gary. Gary has been in the Palisades all day. You went out with an old family friend of yours. GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. When my dad was 89 years old, he met a little kid when he was a little kid, my dad, named Sam Bachner. They've been friends for more than eight decades. They both left Chicago. Sam came here to California. My dad went to New Jersey. They stayed best friends. Sam and his late wife, Arlene, had three daughters. The daughters have husbands. Sam and his three daughters have four different houses here in the mandatory evacuation zone. And what they've experienced is very emotional and very trying.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice over): 89-year-old Sam Bachner walking up his driveway with his daughter, Jen, about to see for the first time with the Palisades fire did to his home. This video shows what it looked like from the outdoor deck on Sam's Pacific Palisades house on Tuesday night, and hours later after he evacuated, this video from outside his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If anyone knows, this house, just a huge house, there's embers and it looks like there's a gas line back there. We're going to tell the firefighters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just go slow.
TUCHMAN: As Sam walked in his home, he saw little damage on the right side of the house, but it turns out the fire raged through the left side.
SAM BACHNER, PACIFIC PALISADES RESIDENT: Just check to your left. That's my office. That's where I work.
TUCHMAN: Many portions inside and outside the house destroyed. Sam and his late wife, Arlene, raised three daughters here. And I know this all quite personally because Sam was and is best friends with my dad. They've been friends since kindergarten. That's Sam on the right, my dad on the left, when they were both 16 years old in Chicago in 1951.
BACHNER: There are people less fortunate, more ravaged, more displaced. We have a family that stays together and sticks together and we'll be supporting each other. These are material things that are not as important to anybody.
[22:10:00]
Living things are most important.
TUCHMAN: Sam's three children and their families all live close to each other in mandatory evacuation areas. Jen and her husband, Damon, raised four children in their home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank God our house is here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're so lucky.
TUCHMAN: Damage here and her sister Lori's (ph) house very limited. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the only neighborhood I've ever known my whole life. I've been here for 56 years, a mile apart from my sisters and my parents. It's surreal for sure.
TUCHMAN: But it's a drastically different situation for the third sister, Dana, and her husband, Rick, who have also come to see their house for the first time since the fire started raging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God, dude.
TUCHMAN: Dana and Rick's Pacific Palisades home of 32 years has been destroyed, a total loss for the parents of four, grandparents of six.
They are here with two of their sons and their daughter-in-law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, give me a hug, baby.
TUCHMAN: This is what their house looked like just a few days ago. And this is video a neighbor sent them of the wildfires that started burning their house and taking over the neighborhood.
Four years ago, their son, Luke, married Brianna (ph) and the wedding party was in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Careful, sweetie. So --
DANA RIVERA, PACIFIC PALISADES RESIDENT: Oh, my God.
TUCHMAN: They are profoundly sad. But like Sam, the patriarch of the family, Dana and Rick say they realize how fortunate they still are.
RIVERA: We raised our four Children here under this roof for 32 years. And it had magic in it.
TUCHMAN: And they have a guiding philosophy.
What do you do next?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want me to go?
RIVERA: Yes, you go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because she always says, are we going to be okay? And the answer is always yes.
TUCHMAN: As for Sam -- you're grateful for what you've got?
BACHNER: Grateful for what I -- standing here for what I've got on my back right now, and being here and being able to talk to you, and being able to go forward tomorrow morning. That's God's gift.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: There's a lot of people who don't know how to answer that question. Are we going to be okay? TUCHMAN (on camera): So, Sam and Dana and Rick plan to rebuild their houses. That's what they want to do. But for now, they're staying in hotels and they know it's going to be a long ordeal ahead of them.
COOPER: Yes. Gary Tuchman, thanks very much.
So, Abby, that's the scene here. Obviously, as I said, we'll be watching a lot for those winds early in the morning and we'll be covering that all day.
PHILLIP: Anderson, Gary, thank you both very much for all of your hard work on the ground there. Thank you.
And coming up next, as the pressure mounts on the liberal leaders of the city of Los Angeles, will this crisis convert some Democratic voters into Republicans? My roundtable will discuss that.
Plus, we have more breaking news, 15 months after the October 7th massacre, a hostage deal is said to be imminent just days before President Biden leaves office. But was it Donald Trump's rhetoric that led to a deal? We'll debate that.
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[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the blame game. The wildfires have put a focus squarely on two people, Governor Gavin Newsom and L.A. Mayor Karen Bass. The two Democrats are getting the brunt of the anger for the response and everything that led to the catastrophe there. Calls are going for their dismissal, both from the left and from the right.
But is this a moment enough to convert some Democratic voters?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM CAROLLA, HOST, THE ADAM CAROLLA SHOW: You guys all voted for Karen Bass, the mayor of Los Angeles. You all voted for Gavin Newsom. And now you fucking get what you get. Oh, now that your house is on fire, well, now you're thinking about something else.
You're going to see a lot of people in Malibu who may have voted blue start voting red if they're permitting and the Coastal Commission and all the bureaucracy starts getting involved.
FMR. REP. DEVIN NUNES (R-CA): Are they going to tell the people, oh, this is global warming. There's no issue here. This is all about climate change. If the politicians in California say that again, hopefully the voters in California will say, we're not going to take this nonsense anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, you may be tempted to dismiss this as just conservatives gloating, but I think if you are a Democratic-elected official in Los Angeles, maybe in any major city, you might be asking yourself, do things need to change? Are Democratic voters getting fed up with what's happening and perhaps feeling like there's not enough leadership?
JOHN AVLON, CNN FORMER SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, I mean, Democratic voters in Los Angeles voted 5 percent more for Donald Trump. So, I mean, you know, and we saw a 2-1 margin for the ballot initiative to basically recriminalize low level crime, which was the right thing to do.
I think the mayor being out of the country slash continent during the fires, that's never a good look. You work for a mayor, if you're the mayor, you stay in town or you stay close to town. That said, the attempt to make this partisan and get political hay is utter B.S. This is a natural disaster. America traditionally has found ways to unite in response to natural disasters.
Now we've got a wave of disinformation going across social media, a lot of B.S. facts, trying to gin stuff up. So, you want to get -- you know, we'll see what the rebuilding process is.
[22:20:00]
But we used to be a country that united in times like this. Within a week of Katrina, there was $10 billion passed in aid relief, bipartisan lines. I had a beat because that's who we are. That's who we were. It's who we are at our heart, but we are getting spun around the axle trying to get political points.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: John, the difference between Katrina and this --
AVLON: Natural disaster.
AIDALA: Yes, but this is --
AVLON: The mayor of New Orleans ended up not being to cover himself with glory either.
AIDALA: Right. Okay. But Katrina was something that was very difficult to prevent, the surging of the waters. People think about a fire and basic things, like having the right people in the right place with the right equipment and the water available to them in the reservoirs and in the pumping stations, that has to do with infrastructure.
I don't know if they could have prepared for Katrina the way they should have before seeing it. This was so foreseeable and they were just -- we don't have the equipment.
PHILLIP: I don't want -- I mean, look, when you talk to fire experts, I mean, they do say that no city is built to withstand five wildfires, not urban fires, five wildfires at the same time. But I do think the undercurrent of this isn't just about the fires. It's about cities and it's about a frustration that exists right now in a lot of American cities. And it's playing out in Los Angeles. SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's about what your focus is. I mean, the reason people in California are unhappy is because the priorities over the last few years, over the last few decades maybe in California maybe haven't been on just competent governance. I mean, Democrats run everything out there.
Mistakes were obviously made in water resource management. Mistakes were made in forest management. Mistakes were made and maybe budget cuts on the fire department. And so there is a question about, did we vote for people who know what they're doing?
And so it's not about making it partisan. It's about making it competent. And I do think if I lived out there, I'd be asking myself, are competent people in charge? Because right now, it doesn't seem like it.
AVLON: You definitely would've been holding. But, you know, the head of the L.A. Times re-tweeted something factually inaccurate about that the fire department budget had been cut $23 million, but in fact, a year over year it was up $50 million.
JENNINGS: But they did have budget cuts.
PHILLIP: There was a $17 million cut year over year, but then a few months later, a $50 million increase. You brought up the owner of the L.A. Times. Let me play what he had to say about the endorsement of the mayor, Karen Bass.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT SOON-SHIONG, OWNER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: We'll accept some blame, right? So, at the L.A. Times, we endorsed Karen Bass. I think right now in front, that's a mistake, and we admit that.
But maybe we should think about how we elect people on the basis of did they actually run a job? Did they actually make a payroll? Do they understand what it is, and rather than having professional politicians whose only job is really to run for office?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AIDALA: Wow, that's great.
PHILLIP: Well, not for nothing, but I guess the era of, you know, newspaper owners kind of staying out of the business of what the newspaper is doing on the editorial side are over.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Is over, yes.
PHILLIP: Those days are over.
ALLISON: I think what's happening in California is a natural disaster. It's a tragedy. And I do think we -- people ran to politicize it in the first 24 hours. And that's unfortunate because the reality is that Democrats' and Republicans' homes are burning. And the wind is not discriminating against who you went in the ballot votes and voted for.
If there was mismanagement in the city, which I don't know if there was or not, I think that an investigation should happen. I think that the thing -- but I don't think that is happening right now. They're thinking that the winds tonight are going to be worse than they were before, and we're talking about who to blame. I can't blame Karen Bass for the wind. Neither can you know, but people are. And people are trying to --
PHILLIP: Some of these infrastructure decisions, definitely, you know, they were made before she was mayor, long before.
JENNINGS: But John's right. The fact that she was in Africa, knowing full well that this was a possibility, and it took her, you know, some period of time to get back after she had promised the voter she wasn't going to be doing any international travel, is a major problem. I think people are looking all over the country. You know, the after the terrorist shooting in New Orleans. I mean, that wasn't really a confidence-inspiring local response really that we saw.
You have cities all over the country right now that I think are doing some real soul searching about who's in charge and what kind of decisions are making, who are they appointing, what are those people being paid, are they focused on the right things at some juncture. You just want the fire department to be focused on one thing, putting out fires. And through a lot of the reporting it seems like they're focused on a lot of other social engineering. It has nothing to do with firefighting.
AVLON: This DEI attack that I don't buy because I think it's a distraction. There was plenty of time --
JENNINGS: Yes, I agree. It is a distraction.
AVLON: But on both fronts, so right now we should be focused on actually the common enemy, which is wildfires, which is burning city. Now, if you want -- you know, the point you want, they could have endorsed Ken Caruso, who was a businessman running against Karen Bass. You know, Dick Reardon was a very effective mayor of Los Angeles, not that long ago, who came from a business background.
[22:25:04]
There are a lot of differences --
AIDALA: Here's what's not there. Here's what's not happening in L.A., and you're going to appreciate this more than anyone at this table. And Abby's going to laugh at me, but it's a national tragedy. It's a national tragedy. And there is no one like a Rudy Giuliani on September 11th. There is no leader. There is no one to at least here on the East Coast. I don't know what's going on in the West Coast. There's no one who says here I am. I'm in control. I'm in charge. And this is what we're going to do. I'm going to display -- there's no sense of someone who's taking the bull by the horns, comforting people and figuring this out. It's not there. AVLON: Look, I worked for Rudy Giuliani during 9/11, so I appreciate that point. But I think also in this environment right now where immediately there is disinformation flowing through social media networks that cleaves down partisan lines, that is stopping our ability to be united. And we should not just accept that as inevitable. That is weakening our ability to unite as a nation and as cities.
JENNINGS: Let me answer your criticism by asking you a question. Do you think it was uniting or dividing while in the midst of these fires for the Democrats to go to Sacramento, and in an emergency session, vote to appropriate $50 million to Trump-proof California, to sue the Trump administration, which hasn't even taken office yet? Do you think that was a good priority and a good time to do that or no? Was that dividing? Was that divisive or was that uniting?
AVLON: Scott, I think what Sacramento does, and, by the way, I think -- look, I think the focus should be entirely on the firefighting, and I'm not going to go take that, you know, bait because I don't know the details of that particular bill.
JENNINGS: They voted to appropriate $50 million to sue Trump.
AVLON: But I think there's a lot of problems when you have one party state legislatures that are increasingly run by one extreme that caused political backlash. That's one of the reasons we saw you know, a drift towards Trump, even in California.
That said, just trying to make -- you know, the president-elect calling the governor of a state that's on fire, you know, Gavin Newscum and railing against him politically and all that stuff, he is not -- I mean, let's call that what it is too.
PHILLIP: That's the speaker of the House, I have to say, has said today that he would like to condition aid.
ALLISON: Yes.
AIDALA: Yes.
PHILLIP: You are okay with conditioning aid to people who are dealing fires --
JENNINGS: I said the night that this started, I said, on your show. There ought to be conditions on aid because obviously --
PHILLIP: So, the next Florida or Louisiana is dealing with a hurricane --
AVLON: That's why I mentioned Katrina.
PHILLIP: -- you want that aid to be conditional upon Washington dictating policy decisions in those states?
JENNINGS: I want it to be conditional on knowing whether or not the state of California in this case is going to enact local policy decisions on forest management, on water resources management, so that it doesn't happen again.
AIDALA: What's wrong with that? What's wrong with that?
PHILLIP: Let me ask that. Okay. If the Democratic-controlled House decided, you know what, in Florida, they really should not be building those houses on the water. It's -- climate change is happening. That aid that we give you is going to be conditional upon you preventing the building of anything along in all those areas that are prone to hurricanes, you would be okay with that?
JENNINGS: If you could pass that through the United States Congress, more power to you. But --
PHILLIP: I'm just asking --
(CROSSTALKS)
AIDALA: Hold on, I'm the lawyer here. We have rules like that all the time. You have to build Coney Island in Brooklyn. If you're going to build something, it's got to be built in a certain way so you're going to get the money. It's got to be billed.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Thank you. So, Arthur is pointing out that that is very much something that Congress could do. Would you be okay with that?
JENNINGS: I am not for a blank check to a state that has clearly failed and doesn't know how to manage fires. I would like to see a partnership between the state and Washington so that whatever money is being spent -- look, I don't live in California.
PHILLIP: And now we're talking about a partnership.
JENNINGS: But if you want to, if you want us to send you billions upon billions of dollars, we need to have some assurances that you're not going to flush it the way you may be have flushed --
PHILLIP: Okay, well, I don't have homes and, yes --
AVLON: This is the problem. This is why I raised Katrina at the top because you know this is about the politics, the golden rule, speaker of the House, Louisiana. We're going to have another major hurricane hit Louisiana at some point, unfortunately, God forbid, and there's going to be a new rounds of flooding. And if that aid was made conditional, he'd scream bloody murder, and he should.
ALLISON: I want to say, the comparison to Katrina and these fires, I think I'm not totally aligned with because the reason why -- what happened in Katrina is the levees broke, which was not a natural disaster, but it was obviously the hurricane was the first step.
I think people in California voted for these folks and there will be another election. And if folks are disappointed with their leadership, then they won't get reelected again. I don't think Mike Johnson should be putting conditions on money that is going to be helping American citizens rebuild their home when they have lost everything.
PHILLIP: And when they had nothing to do with it on any end of it.
JENNINGS: I'm not against aid for people, but if the politicians in Sacramento were going to be the buffer between that, I would have concerns.
PHILLIP: Everyone stick around. Coming up next for us, a new deal to release hostages is nearly settled. Did Donald Trump's threats bring it closer to the finish line? We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (voice-over): We are very close to getting it done. And they have to get it done. If they don't get it done, there's going to be a lot of trouble out there -- a lot of trouble like they have never seen before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: That was President-elect Donald Trump tonight delivering yet another warning to Hamas as a deal for the hostages does appear to be imminent. Trump has threatened to unleash hell if they aren't released by his inauguration, and all sides are optimistic now that a ceasefire agreement is close. But it's a complete tone shift from where President Biden started four years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The message I want the world to hear today -- America is back. America is back.
[22:35:00]
Diplomacy is back at the center of our foreign policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: We could be on the cusp of a very significant moment in this incredibly long, brutal, incredibly deadly war. And I do think that all sides agree that Trump's hand in this has made a difference, one way or another.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, they don't want to deal with Trump. He's been perfectly clear. He has not vacillated about his message that if they don't send our people back, there's going to be hell to pay. And thank God he has been on that message and he has not wavered from it. He's not stepped back from it.
And I don't really care, candidly, who the president is when all this happens. I just want him back. I mean, I've worn this yellow ribbon out here every night for over a year because I think there's so many families who are just devastated, they're hurting, they don't know what the situation is, and we need this to come to an end. There are Americans involved here.
Look, I think we're going to end up paying a very heavy price in this deal. I'm sure some terrorists are probably going to wind up being let out of jails. I don't particularly like that, but to settle this, to get peace and to get our people back, I think it took Trump winning the election and being clear-eyed about it to make it happen.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Scott, do you think there's going to be a swap like that, or do you think Trump or his people reached out to Iran, knowing that they are in touch with Hamas, and he says to Iran, you don't get your buddies from Hamas to release these hostages.
You know all those bombs that Israel wants to take you guys out? I'm going to let them have them. And Israel is going to be your big problem, or you could just be to do the right thing, send them back, because I want to be like Ronald Reagan.
And on the day of my inauguration, the way Reagan said, the hostages are coming home, I want that. Oh, John, he's working for one thing this time around. He's not running for re-election. He's running for his legacy.
JOHN AVLON, FORMER CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm not, I'm not, I'm just saying that's all about his --
AIDALA: That's what he wants.
AVLON: But as we know now, because Ben Bards explained that John Connolly and the Reagan campaign in the 1980s were actually encouraging the Middle East saying, don't release the hostages until Reagan is in office.
AIDALA: OK.
AVLON: So, that it's a different parallel. Look, Joe Biden has been incredibly strong on Israel and tough on Hamas. Syria has fallen. Netanyahu attacking, you know, the head of Hezbollah and Hamas has strengthened obviously the forces of good in that region.
And we do need to see the hostages released. I think the Biden administration deserves a lot of credit for putting forward this plan, pursuing it, and now that both the incoming administration is working, maybe there's added pressure. But I think it's a mistake to say this is Trump's victory. This is about getting the hostages released because it's the right thing to do.
AIDALA: John, that's not the way the public's going to see it. It's not the way they're going to see it. Let's not do that.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't care, actually. Right, that's the thing. It's like maybe we come above that and it's like they come home. I think the other big important piece of this deal, to Scott's point, is that there's peace. There's a ceasefire component to this also.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
ALLISON: Because there are a lot of people in Gaza that are also -- their homes have been devastated. So, we need to bring stability back to that region. It is something that has definitely fractured parts of the Democratic coalition.
But if the hostages come home, their families, I hope they are alive. I hope they are healthy and safe. We don't know their conditions. But I don't -- I agree with Scott on this. Like, I actually don't care who's the president when it happens.
PHILLIP: Let me go back to John on this, because I do think that we're at the beginning of a Trump administration. The first time around, you know, there was, sort of, mad dog theory that he, you know, engaged in, which is that if everybody thinks you're crazy, nobody's going to mess with you. This -- I mean, do you think that there is any sense here that that actually worked here? That Hamas didn't want to take the chance.
AVLON: No.
PHILLIP: That Donald Trump would do exactly what he said he would do.
AVLON: The leader of Hamas has already been killed, rightfully, right? So, the leader of Hezbollah has been taken out. Iran is under more pressure today geopolitically, under what had been the Biden administration and the Netanyahu administration than previously.
So, I think the whole madman theory, which clearly was also I think, you know, in the case of Nixon, who originated the madman theory with Kissinger, that was strategic. I think with Trump it was a way of trying to create strategy around an impulsive, erratic personality geopolitically. And look, there's no question, is he going to be tough on Iran? Sure. And he took out Soleimani. But I think the idea that Biden has been weak in this region is absolutely wrong.
PHILLIP: I didn't, I didn't. To be clear, I don't want to, I don't necessarily -- this is not like a zero-sum situation where Biden, Trump has to be strong, Biden has to be weak. But the added factor of a Trump presidency seems to be influencing what is happening now.
JENNINGS: If you were Iran or any terrorist with any level of responsibility, what you have witnessed is that the Biden administration has tried to, at various points, put shackles on Israel. You can say they've been strong on it, but they have at times tried to put rhetorical and military shackles on Israel. There is no expectation that Trump would put shackles on anybody, and there is some expectation that he might just get involved himself if they don't send our people back.
ALLISON: I think --
JENNINGS: So, I do think this was the essential element to getting this over the finish line, and I hope it happens right now. [22:40:01]
ALLISON: Also, I think there's something about the relationship with Trump and Netanyahu, too, that played into this. And I think we're saying that Hamas was -- they didn't want to deal with Donald Trump. But it's very clear that Netanyahu has been agitational to President Biden and not willing to work with him as much to get a deal. And Donald Trump and --
AVLON: And Trump just shared a criticism about the Netanyahu --
ALLISON: I'm talking about Hamas -- is because in recent weeks, what negotiators have said is that they are the ones who have had to be brought to a yes on this. And so, whatever it takes to get them to a yes wasn't happening over the last year.
AIDALA: But, but look, I have a little inside scoop going on here, OK?
UNKNOWN: Come on, Art.
AIDALA: And all I want to tell you is this. Trump is, believe it or not, he has had people around him who are studying history. The whole Greenland thing, he has looked at great presidents from Thomas Jefferson to Ronald Reagan and everyone in between.
He's looking at things like the Louisiana Purchase. That made a great presidency, because so that's how he's looking at Greenland, and there's going to be resources, and if somehow or another he can pull that off. The whole thing about Reagan, I know you're laughing, but people remember at the inauguration.
AVLON: I don't disagree.
AIDALA: The hostages are on the way home. He wants that. He wants that moment, and unlike his first administration when he was playing to MAGA, he's not playing to MAGA now. He's playing to the billionaires who got him there, and who he wants to hang out with. when he's, whatever, 82 years old and he goes out. So, he's going to what he needs to. He does. He doesn't want to go play golf. He wants to still be in the mix, like Rupert Murdoch. These guys think they're going to live for it.
ALLISON: I think you're right. don't think he does care about the people who go --
PHILLIP: To your point, Arthur, Donald Trump has had a long fascination with like Andrew Jackson. Like he wants the controversial but consequential presidency.
AIDALA: He's on a bill. Andrew Jackson.
JENNINGS: A great nation, a superpower, does not permit its people to be held and treated like this for as long as we have. I don't think Donald Trump wants to be taking over a country that was willing to permit that kind of behavior by these thugs and terrorists. And so, I think that's why he was clear-eyed in his statements and I think that's why they're responding.
PHILLIP: All right everyone, a good discussion here. Coming up next for us, Senator John Fetterman has made the trip down to Mar-a-Lago to visit the president-elect. And now he is one of Trump's favorite Democrats, apparently. We'll discuss Fetterman's potential motivations for all of this -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:51]
PHILLIP: Tonight, another day, another pilgrimage to kiss the ring, but instead of the usual MAGA Republican, it's Pennsylvania Democratic Senator John Fetterman heading down to Mar-a-Lago this weekend to visit Donald Trump.
That move, leaving quite a mark on the president-elect, he told the "Washington Examiner" that, "It was a totally fascinating meeting and that he couldn't be more impressed with Fetterman and his wife." He went on to describe the Pennsylvania senator as just " -- a common- sense person, which is beautiful."
AIDALA: I love it. All kidding aside, I love it. And I think, look, President Biden, when he ran and he came in, he said, I'm going to bring people together -- didn't really happen. Trump is saying, look, I'm going to bring people together.
Here it is, first of all, he's a high profile, big-time Democrat, went big time for Biden and the campaign. And they got up, they sat down, they got along. I think it's great. I don't think he should be mocked.
AVLON: Not at all.
AIDALA: I think both of them, I think Trump and like, I don't know why they gave "Morning Joe" such a hard time that he went down there to go talk to him. Hey, you're the new president of the United States. I'm supposed to cover you. You're the president. Let me meet with you and let's hear what you have to say.
JENNINGS: Well, the reason they gave "Morning Joe" a hard time is because they had spent months and months calling Trump, Hitler, and fascists.
AIDALA: But so did Fetterman.
JENNINGS: And so --
AVLON: No, no. Trump, however, had --
JENNINGS: Fetterman was a little different.
PHILLIP: Actually, OK, let's play the Fetterman -- roll the tape.
AIDALA: You got to roll that tape. All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): He's a sore loser and he got smoked in 2020 and he lied and Fox News had to pay $800 million in court because Fox carried that -- kinds of lies. We're talking about all these other issues when we can't talk about the way Trump has slipped and now he is saying increasingly more incoherent things and bizarre things. It's the same sad story that he had in 2020. And I'd like to remind everybody that Biden wrecked his shit (ph) by 80,000 votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: That's short of calling him Hitler. I just want to point out. Short of calling him Hitler.
AVLON: Not a single thing there. Not a single thing he said was incorrect, factually. But Trump on the other hand had called Fetterman like a drug addict.
ALLISON: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Right.
AVLON: You know, writ large. So, look, it's good to see people reaching out across partisan lines. Fetterman, to reach out, go there, that's fine. And maybe appealing the flattery to Donald Trump, you know, he's very susceptible to flattery. If that can help us unite as a nation to find some common ground and get some big things done, that's fine. But it would have been nice to have Republican senators reaching out to Joe Biden, you know, and that's what we didn't see.
PHILLIP: That is a good point. I mean, why does this never happen the other way around?
JENNINGS: Well, hold on. I mean, I thought one of the big Biden pitches was that he passed a bunch of bipartisan votes.
AVLON: He did. He did.
PHILLIP: Republicans never wanted these -- Republicans never wanted to be seen with him, Scott.
JENNINGS: Yeah, so how can he say Republicans didn't help Joe Biden when they voted for some of this stuff?
AVLON: Because, lest we forget, four years ago and a week, the Capitol was -- had been attacked. And we did see a lot of big bipartisan things get done because Trump worked with the Senate and members on both sides of the aisle to get big things done like infrastructure, like the chips.
PHILLIP: Biden.
AVLON: I'm sorry -- Biden. My apologies.
[22:50:03]
ALLISON: I think Fetterman -- I don't know why he's going down there and I think he has been -- he was elected by a very strong progressive base in his state and since his election, really after the midterms, he has become more and more centrist and that was not the way the people who elected him in Pennsylvania expected him to govern and particularly go down to Mar-a-Lago.
I do think, though, what he is doing, I don't agree with it. But I think what he is doing is he is seeing his state. He is seeing that there are pieces of his state that he also represents that are, run the gamut in the political ideology and he is --
AIDALA: Well, that's what he said.
ALLISON: And he wants to be re-elected and he wants --
PHILLIP: It's not just pieces of his state. I mean look at Pennsylvania.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Between 2016, 2020 and 2024, there's been a huge shift over toward Republicans voter registration. Republicans are now a net -- 205,000 more Republicans registered in the state than there were back in 2019. The state is changing. He knows that. He is not a dumb person.
ALLISON: But can I just say one more thing to the point, is that I think -- what I'd like to see someone like a John Fetterman do is like what you run on still stand by it and talk to your voters and explain to them why they elected you in the first place, not shift positions.
AVLON: So, but I don't argue actually this is not shifting a position, right? I think that, you know, a lot of politics we get lost when it's a simply sort of a left-right axis. What he did -- he's from the Allegheny region, obviously, western Pennsylvania, the more conservative part of the state. And what Tim Ryan who ran against J.D. Vance unsuccessfully that time --
ALLISON: My hometown.
AVLON: -- they both were running as sort of Democratic populists, but not far-left, right? They were, you know, they were saying, look, we've got to stand -- we got to stand with the working class, we've got to rebuild the middle class, but they weren't running on culture war issues at all that are associated with progressivism. So, I think it's actually healthy to see the politics reshuffled. That probably reflects more the way people live and think than this sort of progressive far-right plot.
ALLISON: I don't think that it --
AVLON: I say that as a centrist.
JENNINGS: I think they have things in common. I mean, neither of them are fully partisan ideologues. I mean, Trump is not an orthodox conservative, and Fetterman is not an orthodox liberal on everything. I have greatly admired the way Fetterman has stood up to the fever swamps in his party on the Israel issue.
He's also said some absolutely correct things on immigration that some people in his party don't want to hear. Trump does the same thing. I mean, he occasionally says things that exacerbate, you know, the hardest core, you know, conservative Republicans.
But I agree. I do think a lot of Americans have views on issues that don't necessarily always fall on one side of the line of the other. So, these two very authentic guys, plain-spoken, a lot of backbone. You can see the authenticity in them and why they might have some commonalities.
PHILLIP: All right guys, stay with me. Coming up next, our panel is going to give us their nightcaps with their predictions for what's going to happen at those confirmation hearings for Trump's cabinet starting tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:28]
PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your prediction about this week's confirmation hearings starting tomorrow. Scott, you're up.
JENNINGS: I will say, no drama, is what I'm going to predict. We're going to have pretty straightforward Q and A sessions. I think the nominees are all going to perform just fine. I don't think you're going to have big dramatic moments that are going to cost anyone their confirmation.
I think if someone wants to vote against them, they probably already got their mind made up on that and that goes for any Democrat or any Republican. So, I'm going to predict subdued confirmation hearings and everybody, you know, goes in and shoots par.
PHILLIP: Well, people might have their votes made up, but I don't necessarily think there will be no drama as a result of that. Go ahead.
AVLON: There's going to be a lot of drama, and there should be because this is about the politics of the golden rule. If someone, a Democratic nominee for FBI director, had an enemy's list at the back of his book, Republicans would be shutting him down, and they'd be right to do so.
So, I think if there were a secret ballot, all four of the most contentious nominees wouldn't get through. As it is, I think it'll probably be two out of four might not get through. But Republicans are going to have to actually think about national security and country over party to do the right thing for the country right now.
PHILLIP: Ashley.
ALLISON: Yeah, I think with Pete Hegseth -- that Joni Ernst is really going to take him to task because of his comments that he's made about women serving in the military and some of his history around sexual assault.
And I think you might see -- and that she's a veteran. You also may see Tammy Duckworth and her kind of partner together. So, you actually may see bipartisanship with women tomorrow in the hearing in that confirmation. I don't know if she'll vote for him or not, but I think something's going to happen.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean look people's minds might be made up but that hearing is going to be uncomfortable --
ALLISON: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- because there are so many unanswered questions out there. And -- but it'll be interesting to see which Democrats are the ones who kind of take the lead on this. What about you Arthur?
AIDALA: I would think -- I would agree that Pete is probably the one who's going to have the biggest issues. But I would think there's been behind the scenes kind of vote counting and figuring out where's where and who's what.
And I think President Trump has a lot of political clout right now. It's very different than when he came in the last time I think people are rooting for him. People who I knew who hated him were, like, all right fine. He's going to be here for four years then he's gone. Let's give him a shot. Much in a different vibe.
Even here in New York City where I think he got 17 percent of the vote in Manhattan, people are like, all right, let's see what he can do. He's not a rookie anymore. There's not going to be the learning curve. He's going to come in, hit the ground running, put a couple of billionaires who are successful folks around him. Let's get it done. And I think the Senate is not going to get it in his way.
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: Do you think, Scott, that there's one who might not make it? And if there is, who would it be?
JENNINGS: I think they all have a good chance to make it. I think there are more than one who will lose more than one Republican vote, but I don't know if they'll lose the four necessary.
PHILLIP: You won't say names, names -- name in some names?
JENNINGS: I mean, you could try, Abby.
AVLON: McConnell's not loving the polio vaccine, right?
PHILLIP: We'll check back in with you later in the week. Everyone, thank you very much. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
