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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Chaos, Confusion Erupts After Trump Halts Federal Money; Judge Temporarily Blocks Trump's Plans To Freeze Federal Aid; Trump Officials Issue Quotas To ICE Officers To Up Arrests; Oklahoma Official Supports Trump Agenda On Deportation Of Undocumented Migrants; Armed Man Arrested At The Capitol; RFK Jr. Slammed By Own Cousin. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired January 28, 2025 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[22:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, he came in like a wrecking ball. Donald Trump orders a federal funding freeze, forcing states to claw for cash that pays for American essentials.

Plus, as coast to coast raids grab headlines, could signing checks undocumented migrants cashed put employers in the crosshairs.

Also a liar, a cheat and a predator, Caroline Kennedy brings a blood feud with her cousin --

CAROLINE KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA: Bobby himself is a predator.

PHILLIP: -- into public view.

And the Trumpification of everything. MAGA allies try to put Donald Trump on Mount Rushmore and virtually everywhere else too.

Live at the table, Ashley Allison, Scott Jennings, Jenna Arnold, and Bill Stepien.

Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York.

Let's get right to what America is talking about, a federal freeze. Tonight, Donald Trump's wrecking ball swings right into the brick wall of the law. He suddenly announced a pause in all federal grants and loan programs, and you're seeing there on your screen a partial list of all the things that could be affected here, from preschool for poor children, to food stamps, to Meals on Wheels for seniors.

But here's the thing, no one knows exactly what or who really is impacted. The government won't give taxpayers all the details, and there's a lot of confusion about this, unless, of course, you ask Stephen Miller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: There has to be political control and review. I can't help it if left wing media outlets published a fake news story that caused confusion. If you read the OMB guidance memo, it is --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know what you're talking about.

MILLER: Well, if you read the OMB guidance memo --

TAPPER: Well, I don't know what left wing media --

MILLER: -- it's as clear as day.

The OMB guidance memo, if you read, it is as clear as day.

TAPPER: It's pretty broad and confusingly rich.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Well, it appears tonight, it is so confusing that a judge is blocking the freeze for now, saying that the Trump administration doesn't even know the full scope of the programs that are going to be subject to this pause.

Joining us in our fifth seat at the table is Alexander Hertel- Fernandez. He is a former Office of Management and Budget official under the Biden administration. He's now an associate professor at Columbia University.

The order actually, that was sent out by OMB is incredibly confusing. I don't know who wrote it, but that person is not the best and brightest and should go back and check on some clarity issues here, which I think is actually the source of this. Just -- I'm going to read just one part of it that I found particularly confusing. It talks about all the different programs that should be covered under this executive order, and it says, including, but not limited to financial assistance for foreign aid, nongovernmental organizations, DEI, woke gender ideology, and the Green New Deal. Not limited to, so now the federal government's trying to figure it out, and they're also pulling back one by one. They're saying, okay, it's not this, it's not that. You've got the State Department now saying it's not all of these aid programs that are life saving aid programs. What do you make of all of this?

ALEXANDER HERTEL-FERNANDEZ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Yes, thanks, Abby. I want to say two things up top. The first is, this is unprecedented. We haven't seen a president try to assert this kind of control over federal spending before, and it's unconstitutional. The other thing to say is it's already having a huge impact on the economic well-being and opportunity of millions of Americans across the country.

But let me step back and remind folks why federal grants and contracts, however wonky it sounds, are incredibly important for so many Americans, whether they know it or not. These are the dollars that go out to cities, states, other localities, public schools, universities like the one where I teach, small businesses and charities to run things like childcare, food assistance and food banks, things like broadband access for rural areas and things like support for our drinking water to make sure that it's safe and protected from lead. This is what's at stake if we're halting this kind of federal funding through grants and contracts.

And like I said, we're already seeing the chaos even before the pause went into effect. We're seeing Meals on Wheels, as you mentioned, being unsure whether or not it's going to be able to deliver for its clients. We're seeing public school districts across the country being unsure whether or not they can pay out free and reduced priced lunches for their students who are otherwise hungry and depend on that program. We're seeing universities like the one where I teach being unsure about whether or not they can do research on cutting edge medical technologies that might save lives and research and development that power our economy.

[22:05:06]

And we're seeing public libraries, like the one where my sister works in rural Massachusetts being unsure whether or not they can keep their doors open. All this to say it's having a material consequence right now.

PHILLIP: I am -- Bill, I know you were there in the first administration. I mean, I remember moments like this happening so frequently the first time around. And I honest to God thought that they really had it ironed out this time. But this, I think, has really been ham handed.

BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: They're eight days in. There are a lot of questions we shouldn't jump to conclusions yet. Here's what we do know. This is a president running a government for the first time in four years as opposed to a government running the president. I like the fact that we're asking questions before we spend trillions of taxpayer dollars. How is this money being used? Why is this money being used? These are smart questions to ask. I'm glad we have a president and an administration asking them.

PHILLIP: Shouldn't you ask those questions before you freeze all the money?

JENNA ARNOLD, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think that's a great point and I, it would strike me that it would make much more sense to start identifying exactly what some of the programs are that you could consider cutting or looking at for a better efficiency before you go ahead and start doing it.

One of the points that you raised, Alexander, that I think is so critical is the ultimate domino effect of this that I don't think we have an appreciation for. And for folks who voted for Donald Trump who are not necessarily getting their news in the same places that I might be might not see this coming. If we're talking about federally supported hospitals, we're talking about longer lines at the E.R. If we're talking about teacher salaries, we're talking about doubling classroom size. Every single parent in the country currently wants their kid to get more attention. I don't think people understand what could potentially be coming and the risks of it.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that questions might have been asked when it was passed by Congress. Part of why this is problematic is because the president is overreaching on his executive power. No doubt, he's the president. Some people think he has a mandate. He came in, was going to be a disruptor. I don't know if the disruption that people were looking for was making it harder for kids to get subsidized lunch and maybe get the only meal that they get that day.

I think the other thing is this would be cute if it wasn't, is that he fired the people who actually could have done oversight on these programs on Friday. He fired the inspectors general that can identify waste and fraud.

So, I don't actually think he wants to fix the problem. He is testing it out. This is a strategy. It's fine if this is the strategy, but it's going to have great consequences on Americans.

PHILLIP: What's so interesting is that the beginning of the day, this was just out there.

ALLISON: Yes.

PHILLIP: And Republicans went on television and defended, like this congressman from Georgia, not giving kids lunch, even though then the White House then walked all of that back. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): Who can actually go and actually produce their own income? Who can actually go out there and do something that makes them have value and work skills for the future? I mean, how many people got their start in fast food restaurants when they were kids versus just giving a blanket rule that gives all kids lunches in high school who are capable of going out and actually getting a job and doing something that makes them have value. Thinking about their future instead of thinking about how they're going to sponge out the government when they don't need to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: They had to go out on a limb. Kids sponging off the government in exchange for food so they can get through a school day.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not the greatest political argument, is it? You know, I have a few thoughts on this. Number one, I assume when this all happened, it would get sorted out in court. That's obviously process is underway. Not uncommon. Joe Biden had to have a few things sorted out in court too, pretty common thing. Number two, I didn't realize we were, but 12 hours from full societal collapse after one government decision. I had no idea, but I appreciate the briefing.

Number three, I think the American people are appalled at the amount of money that goes out the door every year. And it seems to be on autopilot and it seems to be without political oversight. And I do think one of the lessons from the election was, can we get a little bit of political oversight over the unelected bureaucracy? And that is what they are attempting to do.

Do I ultimately believe a lot of this is going to be walked back? Yes. Do I think members of Congress are going to draw attention to things that are quite necessary and quite useful? Absolutely. Will it take a few days to iron out? More than likely. But I do think there's a little bit of overreaction on the left today because Donald Trump and his people decided to exercise a little bit of political oversight, which I think the American people want.

PHILLIP: It was a blank freeze on government spending.

ALLISON: Last night, I got a text message from a new mom wondering if she was going to be able to keep her Section 8 apartment last night, who works, who does -- this is not the left. These are real people in a red state, this mom. It has real life consequences with human impact. So, I'll be okay, most likely, but people who voted for Donald Trump won't.

[22:10:00]

And I think there is a responsibility on our elected officials, Democrat and Republican, to do things in a more responsible manner.

PHILLIP: I got a text message from someone who has a child with down syndrome who relies on Medicaid for supplies for that child. They were told by their medical provider, we don't know if you're going to be able to get your supplies. Medicaid went down for a big chunk of the day.

STEPIEN: I actually heard from --

ARNOLD: As you pointed out, like, we are still very early in trying to figure out what it is, but this goes back to like the joke that the left had that I think was right going into the election when Donald Trump kept saying, oh, I have concepts of a plan. When you are risking taking support for children with down syndrome, when you are risking Section 8, when you are potentially putting infrastructure jobs out of business, of which are totally propped up by all the blue collar voters that supported Trump, you can't just mess around with these kinds of concepts.

JENNINGS: Well, you can mess around with it --

ARNOLD: Sure, then you can take food out of children's mouths.

JENNINGS: -- if you want to try to exercise a little political oversight. And maybe most of this stuff is fine and maybe there isn't as much waste, fraud and abuse as some people think. But my bet is there is going to be some there. We're also going to find out that some money is being spent that goes beyond what the Congress intended.

I do think this issue, communicating some of this to the state legislature, if I had any political advice for the Trump administration today would be, do the best job you can at communicating with your partners in state governments, because they're the ones who are ultimately going to get a lot of calls on it. And I think that would help them with their political program if they had the best communication possible with some of the legislators and governors out there.

HERTEL-FERNANDEZ: But what we're going to be seeing right now is the pushback from the institutions that we just heard. Whether they're research universities in red states that are working on life saving medicines or interventions for people, whether it's engineering breakthroughs, these are things that are currently up in the air with researchers being unclear whether or not they can continue their work or (INAUDIBLE).

JENNINGS: I don't think we're on the cusp of utopia tonight if we have a one day freeze on this thing.

STEPIEN: The worst governing occurs during two points. The last two months of an administration when people are checked out and everyone's out the door and the first two months, when there's not yet people confirmed and in place, staff not yet in place. And a hands off the steering wheel approach is a very dangerous, dangerous thing.

PHILLIP: Let me play what Governor Tim Walz, the former V.P. nominee for the Democratic Party, said tonight about all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): It's on. I'm glad you said that. Governors are out there. The resistance is strong. You felt it. Americans, lo and behold, like democracy and feeding their children. So, they're going to fight for these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I mean, it does strike me that one of the main reasons that they had to walk all this back is because there was outrage.

ALLISON: Yes, and there will be more because the freeze is happening. But if whatever -- it will happen in court, but -- perhaps. But it's in court now, yes, and it shouldn't be in court because I think the law is pretty clear that Congress has allocated this. And you could have had oversight without doing it this way. But when it actually -- when people start having questions, and I don't know why the website went down, but it went down, and that does not instill faith in the public and the will of the people who elected you, it makes you ask more questions. And I think it will be harder for the Trump administration to govern, which I'm happy about because I think they govern terribly, but it won't end well for the American people at this point.

PHILLIP: I will say, I do wonder how actually prepared the Democratic Party is for all of this. I mean, it has not exactly been a rapid fire response. They've set a meeting for tomorrow about something that happened today or last night, actually. So, I don't know.

ALLISON: I'll just jump in. I think that the Democratic elected officials will do what they do. But all I know is that people self- organized today, people put -- called your Congress member to -- like they didn't need an elected official to tell you to take action in a moment where stuff didn't feel right.

ARNOLD: And it's a big call to action evening across the board for all of the headlines, I think, for many Americans. But I do think, Abby, that this is a moment for the voters who haven't traditionally been on the streets, the voters who have probably did not vote for my preferred candidate on November 5th, to say, wait a second, we -- this was not part of the agenda.

So, I'm actually asking the largely Republican voter, now is your time to organize. You know how the left feels about this. You know the left is already buttoned up on this. Everyone's already getting text messages about how we're going to build fail safes for the people that we know. But what are you going to do to hold your president accountable?

PHILLIP: Well, I guess that's presuming that they think that this is a problem, which I don't know that we know that yet. But we'll find out soon enough.

Alexander, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, stick around.

Coming up next, as immigration raids intensify across the country, will Trump now go after the employers of illegal immigrants here in the United States? Another special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat to debate that.

[22:15:02]

Plus, breaking news, an armed man has reportedly been arrested at the Capitol threatening to kill Trump cabinet members. Details on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: Tonight, more arrests and more photo ops. The nationwide Trump immigration operation is trying to put numbers on the scoreboard. Only those numbers are undocumented immigrants. Today, ICE arrested 969 people, keeping trend with the last couple of days there. And Kristi Noem, the Homeland Security secretary, is posting to social media to document the crackdown.

Joining us at the table now is Democratic Congresswoman LaMonica McIver.

[22:20:02]

She represents New Jersey's Tenth Congressional District, which includes the city of Newark. Just last week, that city made some headlines after federal agents detained multiple people during an operation in a local business, including a U.S. citizen. That's according to the city's mayor. Congresswoman, thanks for joining us.

I mean, one of the big questions here, of course, is there's so much focus on obviously undocumented immigrants, but when we look at the immigration issue in this country, why don't we ever talk about the people who are hiring them, who are providing, if you call it, the lures here to this country? Why is this such a one-sided conversation?

REP. LAMONICA IVER (D-NJ): Well, it's quite clear. I think, you know, folks know they're getting cheap labor. Folks are working for certain amounts that regular folks won't work for or citizens, shall I say, wouldn't work for. And I think people want to, you know, hurt those that are, you know, lowest on the totem pole at this point. And that is why they're tackling those that are undocumented versus going after the employers, which many folks, many farmers, we know they're working, you know, at these locations and no one's doing anything about it.

PHILLIP: I mean, the other thing is that, just by virtue of this conversation, the undocumented people in this country by and large are working. They're working and they're paying taxes. They're paying into Social Security that they'll never get back. They are not -- you know, the picture that is painted that they are just freeloading off the country is not really accurate.

STEPIEN: I think you're right. They are being exploited. It's a big problem. And I think employers, restaurant owners, farm owners, they're benefiting from the exploitation. They're aiding and abetting a crime. They're protecting people who shouldn't be here. They're shielding them. It's a bit -- they're going to stay here as long as their pockets are being lines and I blame the people who are paying them every single week.

ALLISON: Those are Democratic and Republican people, right? Those are people who are -- who voted for Donald Trump, who will be deporting their workforce. So, I think the reason why they also aren't going after is because it's your voting base right now.

JENNINGS: I think there's two different categories of business owners. I think some people are legitimately not knowing who they're -- I mean, maybe they're thinking they're hiring someone who's here legally and there's maybe some fraud going on. I don't think we should punish people who were legitimately trying to do the right thing and got taken advantage of. But I do agree with Bill that if you are trying to actively hire illegal immigrants, if you think that's best, if you are trying to game the system, if you were trying to help someone break U.S. federal immigration law, I think if we're going to have a true crackdown on illegal immigration in this country. It has to involve everybody who's participating in it, and I think you've raised a good point with this topic. And so, employers and anyone else who's part of this pipeline, I think they ought to be put on notice. You got to play by the rule. Everybody has to play by the rules.

STEPIEN: I don't want to hear that they're doing work that no one else will do. Talk to guys in the building trades, plumbers, contractors.

ARNOLD: Farm, picking strawberries. I mean, like, I can't wait --

STEPIEN: These building trades guys are being hurt by labor that shouldn't be here.

ARNOLD: I can't wait until American women can't get blueberries for their smoothies. I cannot wait until there is a full crackdown on all small businesses as if that's going to be the solution to the immigration problem. It is just going to put immigration related issues further into the darker corners. We're not going to see them. It's just going to become even harder to solve the problem. It doesn't make sense to punish individuals and people when there is a broken system.

JENNINGS: Well, I mean, look, I think if you came here illegally and you know, when you came, you know, you did it, you know, you broke the law, you know, you have to understand it's a new day in America. And number two, I still think the case for total economic collapse, if we have some deportation, is totally overstated. I mean, it's obvious the priority is violent criminals. And the second priority is people with existing deportation orders. I think that's the vast majority of what's going to go on, you know, for the next couple of years. And I don't think that's going to have any impact on the economy at all.

PHILLIP: But I wonder about just acknowledging the role of undocumented people in the economy. I mean, I think that's the part that's not happening. I mean, earlier today, Stephen Miller was on with Jake Tapper, and he was asked about the some 300,000 undocumented workers who constitute about 40 percent of the agricultural industry. He didn't really want to talk about it. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLER: The illegal aliens that Joe Biden brought into our country are not, full stop, doing farm work. They are not. The illegal aliens he brought in from Venezuela, from Haiti, from Nicaragua, they are not doing farm work. They are in our cities collecting welfare. As for the farmers, there is a guest worker program that President Trump supports.

[22:25:01]

There's no universe in which this nation is going to allow the previous president to flood our nation with millions and millions of illegal aliens who just get to stay here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That guest worker program, just to be clear, is not what we're talking about here. That guest worker program, those folks are not illegal immigrants. They are here legally on temporary visas in order to work. Still, 40 percent of the agricultural industry are people who are undocumented. And he's talking about, you know, Venezuela, Haiti, Nicaragua, those individuals did not have work permits, but there were many others who did have work permits and who were working in this country. Remember Springfield, Ohio? Those folks were working. Just to be clear.

ALLISON: There were jobs that weren't being filled by people living in Springfield, Ohio, and Haitian immigrants were filling them. I also think it might not cause economic collapse, but it definitely will cause economic inconvenience, when people lose nannies, when they lose people who clean their homes, when they do lose people who pick their fields.

And I'm just saying, you might want to go look at the people who are employing the farm workers and what party affiliation they have by their name when you say because they know their people are not documented because when raids are to happen, their workforce stopped coming. So, now they've been put on notice.

There are Republican voters that this network interviewed that says dairy farms will dry up in two days because 60 percent of my workforce are immigrants.

PHILLIP: Yes, we played a couple days ago. I mean, that guy who had a dairy farm, he basically said, well, I just don't think this is going to happen.

But we already know that it's happening now that the raids are happening now. They are picking up some people with deportation orders who have criminal records, but they're picking up a lot of people who don't partly because they're being pushed to just hit numbers, whether or not they actually get the people that they --

MCIVER: Absolutely. Just in Newark, I mean, they raided a business where people were at work and there was not a violent criminal there. They were working. They were at a seafood depot working, you know, employed. So, they say they're going after folks who are, you know, committed crimes, but they're not.

JENNINGS: But just saying, look, as long as you come here illegally and you do some kind of work, then we're going to absolve you, that's the signal to keep coming. And I think one of the messages of Trump, which was politically successful, is we keep sending signals to people to come here. We give lip service to don't come, but then we keep giving societal signals to come, whether it's promising free healthcare or if you get here and you work, then we probably won't bother you. And so the messaging of the federal government has to change.

On the agricultural piece, I actually agree. This is one of the areas where they're going to have to tweak the knobs on the guest worker program because there's no doubt farms and agriculture installations need more guest workers. But that would be an example of desirable immigration. And I think the impulse and the imperative of the Trump administration is to go after undesirable immigration, which are violent people and people who are not here doing anything useful at all.

PHILLIP: Okay. Well, we just got finished talking about how most -- first of all, most immigrants, documented or not documented, are not criminal. So, the idea that the rest of the universe is undesirable because they're criminal is not, I think --

(CROSSTALKS)

ALLISON: I think that's really important to keep pointing out, is that they look at immigrants in this country as criminals. They want them all gone.

JENNINGS: No, we want the people here legally. We want a legal process.

ALLISON: Then fix it.

ARNOLD: That's right, that's the system that needs to be fixed.

STEPIEN: New York Times poll, not me, this is The New York Times, 55 percent of Americans want Deported from our country, not just criminals with -- illegal immigrants with criminal records, but all illegal immigrants, 55 percent poll this month. President Trump is not a lone wolf on this. He has support for this.

ARNOLD: And then all the other undervalued work, caretaking of children, of the elderly, farm working, hospitality is going to disappear. I cannot wait for the moment when there is somebody -- like when there isn't a bellhop for a super right woman who isn't there to help take her suitcases out of her truck.

My fear with this conversation though, Abby, is that it's less about whether or not he should or shouldn't be going after small business owners, because he's going to do it once or four times and he's going to bank the footage. And no one's going to be tracking the numbers of people who are gone or who are not gone, but he's going to be able to say see small business owners. He's going to march himself into a church just to be like, there's no church or there's no place of worship that's safe. He's controlling the narrative on this. No one's tracking the numbers. And so he's going to get up (INAUDIBLE).

PHILLIP: Look, we are certainly trying to track the numbers and asking every day about how many actually are criminals.

I do want to, before we go, play this from the Oklahoma State superintendent who, basically, the school board passed a rule today that allows them to collect immigration information about students and teachers in their school district, and here's why.

[22:30:11]

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Would you be willing to hand over people's identities or just the number of undocumented parents broken down by school district?

RYAN WALTERS, OKLAHOMA STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: Well, let me be clear. Yeah, I'll give President Trump whatever he needs to carry out his agenda. That includes giving them information about students in our schools, families enrolled in our schools, so they can make the decisions on how to deport families together and how to identify criminals in our school system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, Congresswoman, I mean, this is Oklahoma, so no surprises there. He's a very pro-Trump school superintendent, but they have made it clear they want to be able to come into schools. How does that hit your ear?

REP. LAMONICA MCIVER (D-NJ): I mean, definitely it is, it's truly disheartening, and it's already caused so much havoc, so much concern in my district. I heard from so many school principals already that students were coming to the office to print their green card in order just to walk home because they were scared that ICE would approach them.

I know that there's been a lot of guidance that has went out from multiple of my municipalities giving school superintendents and principals guidance on how they should interact with ICE, but you know, young people are scared. You know, they are scared to walk home, scared to come to school.

We've gotten reports that some students have said they're not coming back. Parents are not bringing their students back. And these are students who are born here. They are citizens and they are -- their families are not, they're undocumented. And so they're like, hey, you heard what Trump said. If you want to leave your child here, leave your child here. You can go or you all can go together.

And depending on the age of the young -- the students, I mean, I have a daughter who's in the third grade, who's eight years old. And she has a classmate who has expressed to the classroom that my parents are undocumented. I was born here but I may not be able to stay in school.

So, it just goes back to this whole crackdown on deportation just doesn't affect the undocumented. It affects the entire community and that is what we're dealing with at a large amount of numbers right now.

PHILLIP: All right. Congresswoman LaMonica McIver thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else stay with us. Coming up next, breaking news. We are getting word that an armed man has been arrested at the Capitol, accused of threatening to kill members of the Trump administration. More on that in a moment. Plus, just hours before RFK Jr.'s confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill, senators are getting a scathing letter slamming him from his own cousin, Caroline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE KENNEDY, RFK JR.'S COUSIN: These facts alone should be disqualifying. But he has personal qualities related to this job, which for me pose even greater concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:37:11]

PHILLIP: And breaking news tonight, police have arrested an armed man at the U.S. Capitol after he threatened to kill Trump cabinet members. The 24-year-old approached police, told them that he had knives and Molotov cocktails and that he wanted to surrender.

Investigators say tonight that they found a folding knife, fire bombs and a lighter when the man was searched. A search of his car also turned up material for making improvised explosive devices. And affidavit said that the man had mapped out his targets. Scott Bessent, Pete Hegseth, Mike Johnson, and the Heritage Foundation.

A disturbing, disturbing development after a year of very similar ones. This is all coming as Capitol Hill is going to be a busy place tomorrow. Confirmation hearings are well underway for others in Trump's cabinet, including one of the president's most controversial picks.

And if family knows best, then maybe Robert F. Kennedy should be worried about his future confirmation. Today, former U.S. Ambassador to Australia, Caroline Kennedy, released a video torching her cousin. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: He lacks any relevant government, financial, management or medical experience. His views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. These facts alone should be disqualifying. But he has personal qualities related to this job, which for me, pose even greater concern. I've known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because Bobby himself is a predator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I have never seen anything like this before. A nominee who has not just one family member, but his entire family rising up against him basically in unison because they think he is dangerous, what he said about vaccines. They have concerns about his actual character, not just about his views on these subjects. It's incredible.

ALLISON: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I don't know if a video from Caroline Kennedy is going to persuade Republican senators. That's unfortunate. It might, but I don't know if it will.

Perhaps what this video will do, I'm glad she did it, because I think it is a signal that when you see something that is not aligned with the values that you think the country should go and you should speak up, that's why we have the First Amendment. But it could give Republican senators who already had questions, and I

do believe there are some who already have questions -- some threads to work on in their questioning when they go up. He has to go before two committees when he goes up for questioning. Will this video be the thing that convinces people? Probably not, but could it be informative for their series of questions, perhaps.

[22:40:00]

ARNOLD: I'd love to echo Ashley's sentiment on how grateful I am that Caroline decided to do this, particularly after a year of being quiet about -- about her cousin. I -- it is not lost on me and I'm surprised that the specific word that she chose has not gotten more coverage.

The term predator and her long breath, a dead stare at the camera, feels very telling to me. I don't -- I associate that word with a spectrum of things that are very scary to me outside of his disqualifications for why he shouldn't run HHS, but I think it is something that should be considered.

PHILLIP: Can I just play -- I'm going to play this one other part that speaks to the character that he -- she talks about his pattern of violence toward animals. We've heard about the, you know, Central Park incident, but here's another example that she gives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: I watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were available and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: You know, Scott, your former boss, Mitch McConnell, is said to be one of the people who have a lot of questions about RFK Jr. He's a polio survivor.

JENNINGS: Yeah.

PHILLIP: Are there a couple of others? What do you think this is going to portend?

JENNINGS: I think -- I'm not sure if he's going to get confirmed or not, to be honest. Look, I think any time the president nominates someone, they deserve a fair hearing. And I do think he's touching on some issues that a lot of people care about in both parties, namely the health of Americans right now and how we've gotten so unhealthy.

You have to remember, too, it's a Republican-controlled senate and he's a Democrat. And he, over the years, is not been pro-life, doesn't support the second amendment. But there's a number of issues that a Republican could -- senator -- could reasonably say I'm not sure if he shares my values. PHILLIP: Even on the food staff reportedly -- his opposition to high fructose corn syrup is something that's getting him in the band races of some of the Republicans in the Midwest. But I also -- but I also think that when you get nominated by the President, you deserve a fair hearing, you deserve to go under oath, and you deserve the chance to answer questions. I think this video and other testimony that gets entered into the record will be taken into consideration.

But I'm just -- I guess, most interested in when he puts his hand up and takes the oath, what kind of questions does he answer. And I'm also interested to see whether Democrats can control themselves. They hurt themselves. If they had any chance of ever beating Hegseth, they tanked their own effort in their behavior. I want to see how they act in this one because they may do the same thing again.

STEPIEN: I have a different emotion. That makes me really sad, right? She hates Donald Trump more than she loves her cousin. He was running for the highest office in the land for President of the United States. She said none of those things. She was silent.

PHILLIP: Look, just to clarify, one of the reasons that she didn't speak up was that she was a sitting ambassador at the time, so she didn't weigh in just in general. So, I mean --

STEPIEN: There are ways for this information to make her way.

PHILLIP: I mean, a lot of other family members did weigh in. She did not because she was in a public service position.

STEPIEN: This comes to the forefront only when he steps up to say, I support Donald Trump. I want to serve in his administration. And it's taking a step back. It's sad -- it's sad when partisan politics affects families like that.

ARNOLD: How do you feel about her heeding the warning, though, that this is an -- it is his character. He is a predator. He is an uncomfortable person to be around. How do you make excuses for that, irrespective of the timing of this video?

STEPIEN: How I feel doesn't matter. What matters are the people in the hearing, in the committee hearing.

PHILLIP: You're also saying that she hates Trump more than she loves her cousin. She could also just actually believe that he's unfit. One of her other family members released some messages that he sent to her, making false claims about vaccines, linking vaccines to autism, false claims about the COVID shots. So, there are concerns that are very substantive and actually have nothing to do with Donald Trump.

STEPIEN: Ambassadors host parties.

PHILLIP: I know, but I'm saying, I think, nothing that she said had anything to do with Donald Trump. It has all to do with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

JENNINGS: I would not -- I would not underestimate the constituency for what he's out talking about regarding health. I would not underestimate his popularity. I have been surprised at the polling on him. He's probably the president's most popular nominee for any of these cabinets. He's certainly the most well-known.

There's going to be a lot of pressure put on senators to confirm him because of those constituencies and because of that popularity. But again, in this case, I actually, I do believe the hearings are going to be determinative. I'm not sure what's going to happen to him, but I think the hearings will be determinative.

[22:45:00]

PHILLIP: All right everyone, hold on, coming up next. What do you get the president who has everything? A name change? On the map perhaps? His face on Mount Rushmore? We'll discuss how lawmakers are trying to show their loyalty to President Trump next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:49:37]

PHILLIP: What happens when a political party feels it has to play to an audience of one? You see legislation like this propping up. These are the ideas that several members of Congress have put on the table, including putting Trump's face on Mount Rushmore. Giving presidents a chance to serve a third term. Renaming Washington Airport after him taking over the Panama Canal, which I know Scott Jennings is a huge fan of.

[22:50:04]

These are all just some of the bills that Republican lawmakers are pushing in an effort to try to help President Trump advance both his political and his personal agenda. The Mount Rushmore thing, however, is something that they know is a favored hobby horse of his.

STEPIEN: Are we conveniently forgetting that Nancy Pelosi suggested Joe Biden's big head should be on Mount Rushmore just last year? We're going to forget that?

PHILLIP: I think she was -- it was a figure of speech.

JENNINGS: She also compared it to George Washington, so I don't think it was.

PHILLIP: Trump actually, in 2020, "The Times" reported that Trump's aides, maybe you know something about this, Bill. His aides went to Kristi Noem's advisors and said, how do you get a president on Mount Rushmore?

And knowing that, because she was trying to get him to the state, Kristi Noem, brought him a little gift in private. "The Times' says, the efforts to charm Mr. Trump were more pointed, according to a person familiar. Ms. Noem greeted him with a four-foot replica of Mount Rushmore that included a fifth likeness. JENNINGS: I'm TBDO on Mount Rushmore, but I will say this. I think

two-term presidents deserve consideration for being honored in various ways. I like it that it's Reagan National Airport. I think people who went -- I think people who went to elections deserve some consideration. I think there's going to be a normal enormous pressure to keep Trump's name off everything but the man won two elections. And the greatest presidents we've had, we consider like, we tend to honor them.

PHILLIP: Barack Obama International Airport.

JENNINGS: Sure, I think he won two elections. There's plenty of stuff named after Obama and there'll be more.

ALLISON: I think Mike Johnson should really focus on getting bipartisan legislation passed to get Donald Trump on Mount Rushmore and they should run on that in the midterms.

ARNOLD: You know what, I will, send me the GoFundMe page --

ALLISON: Absolutely.

ARNOLD: -- and I'm happy to blast out.

JENNINGS: If you've never been to Mount Rushmore, it's one of the most breathtaking things, by the way. It's an amazing --

ALLISON: I love it. That's why I want Trump on it.

STEPIEN: Let us put Panama Canal, though. I'm on the Scott bandwagon on this in a separate category --

JENNIGS: Yes.

STEPIEN: -- than the silliness of this other stuff.

JENNINGS: This is not a project of self-aggrandizement. This is a serious national security issue. I think they may have violated their treaty obligations. I think Trump has a point.

STEPIEN: Cruz was talking about it today. I mean, it's a national security issue.

PHILLIP: Okay. That may be -- that may be the case. Trump says he just wants to take it back. We also have a treaty. We would have to renegotiate that. Everyone, stay with me. Coming up next, this panel gives us their nightcaps, Mona Lisa edition. What they think is so amazing that it deserves its own room in a museum.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:57:16]

PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, Mona Lisa edition. Today, the French President, Emmanuel Macron, announced that a famous painting will suddenly now get its own room in Paris' Louvre Museum. It is part of a 10-year renovation plan, perhaps also to protect it a little bit. So, you each have 30 seconds to say what work of art, loosely defining art here, is just so good that it's going to deserve its own room in a museum. Scott.

JENNINGS: Oh, it's obvious there's only one answer. The 1993 film "Tombstone" loosely based on the events of the gunfight at the O.K. Corral on October 26, 1881, in my opinion, is the greatest Western ever made. And Val Kilmer turned in the greatest American acting performance in a Western.

We should put it on a loop, in a room, and everyone should be required to go and watch this most American of movies. "Tombstone", put it in a room, and you'd make me a happy man. Greatest movie. I've been there. It's an amazing place.

PHILLIP: I didn't know there were award categories for Greatest Western, but you just created one, so we'll take it.

ALLISON: I now want to change mine and say that, wait, I'm going to do my real one, but I think that "Coming to America" should have its own room.

JENNINGS: I'm for that too, I'd say.

PHILLIP: I do, too.

ALLISON: I see, I see. But I think there should be a room that has a never-ending performance of the Electric Slide.

ARNOLD: That you join in?

ALLISON: You join in. It's like constant. It's just like, it's a converse.

PHILLIP: It's just there to bring people joy.

ALLISON: But you always have to have anchors to keep it going, you know? And it's just like --

JENNINGS: We need to get a grant for this.

ARNOLD: It's like the Forever Free.

ALLISON: It's all frozen, though.

PHILLIP: I have to say, I am with you on "Coming to America". That is a great movie, top to bottom.

ARNOLD: I'm not going to be able to deliver a great movie reference right now, but I would love to see the Salvator Mundi, which is the last Da Vinci actually show its face to the public. But my request for a room dedicated in a museum is very odd.

But because I'm in the constant effort to try to find ways to bring us together, I would like all of the evidence, or if there is any evidence to suggest that there's extraterrestrial intelligence out there, to be in a place where we can all go and see that there is a different kind of them and we are all a singular us.

JENNINGS: Do you believe there is?

ARNOLD: Absolutely.

PHILLIP: You do.

JENNINGS: How about you?

STEPIEN: No.

ARNOLD: I do.

ALLISON: What about you? You.

JENNINGS: I don't know. I'm kind of into it.

ARNOLD: Hence the reason we need this room at the museum.

PHILLIP: Trump is declassifying some things.

ARNOLD: I know but can he get over to Roswell?

ALLISON: Then guess what?

PHILLIP: Declassify that.

ALLISON: Your movie could be "E.T."

ARNOLD: Okay, fine. Thank you, Ashley. "E.T."

PHILLIP: All right.

STEPIEN: This one is easy. We had two New Jersey on set tonight. That's probably a record. There is no item of greater cultural significance to New Jerseyans than the first album that skyrocketed our favorite -- our favorite son to fame and stardom.

[23:00:02]

Bruce Springsteen's 1975 "Born to Run". It is beautiful from beginning to end. It makes me cry still. It needs to be preserved and treasured. Put it in the museum.

PHILLIP: You know, I'm not going to comment actually.

ARNOLD: You don't have one.

PHILLIP: No, I'm just not going to comment on the Springsteen of it but I appreciate the -- I appreciate the admiration for Bruce. Everyone, thank you very much. Thank you all for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.