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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
New York Times Reports, Musk to Get Top Secret U.S. Plan for Potential China War; Lawmaker Gets Racist Messages After Border Czar Clash; Judge Blocks Trump's Deportation of Georgetown Student. Judge Blocks Trump's Deportation of Student From Georgetown; Lawmaker Gets Racist Messages; AOC Tells Democrats To Fight Harder. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 20, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, breaking news. Donald Trump is about to open another door for Elon Musk, this one to the nation's war secrets.
Plus, a viral moment and a vile response. New York City Mayoral Candidate Zohran Mamdani joins us live.
Also, what happens in Vegas --
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): So, why are Alexandria and I here in Las Vegas?
PHILLIP: -- is echoing in Washington. AOC says Democrats can't fold.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I want you to support brawlers who fight.
PHILLIP: While another prominent party leader --
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): I can't do what she does because we live in a purple state.
PHILLIP: -- wants to bet big on action, not words.
And town halls --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to give you 30 seconds to just scream it out of your system.
PHILLIP: -- gone wild. Angry constituents turn spring break into a springboard for venting.
Live at the table, Joe Borelli, Jamaal Bowman, Xochitl Hinojosa and Mike Lawler.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about. The breaking news tonight, a calendar invite that will loop Elon Musk into one of the nation's most closely guarded secrets. The billionaire will head to the Pentagon tomorrow for what The New York Times reports is a briefing on the top secret war plans to fight China. It is a worst case scenario sketch of how the American military will engage with Beijing if war were to break out.
The story says that the briefing will include 20 to 30 slides to lay out how the United States would fight such a conflict. It covers the plan beginning with the indications and warnings of a threat from China to various options on what Chinese targets to hit over what time period that would be presented to Mr. Trump for decisions.
Now, walking Musk through the Xs and Os of it marks a stunning expansion of the scope of his role inside the Trump administration.
CNN's Sara Fischer is joining us in our fifth seat on this breaking story. This is truly extraordinary what the Times is reporting here in this piece and what it lays out is somebody who has conflicts. He simply does. According to the Times, Mr. Musk and Tesla, an electric vehicle company he controls, are heavily reliant on China, which houses one of the automaker's flagship factories in Shanghai. Last year, the company said in financial filings that it had $2.8 billion dollars in a loan agreement with lenders in China for production expenditures.
Congressman Lawler, does this concern you?
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Certainly obviously any conflicts should be addressed. I think, obviously, through both, you know, SpaceX and Starlink, Elon Musk already has significant security clearances within the United States government, and obviously, as an appointee of President Trump, has additional security clearances.
There's no question obviously though that any conflicts should be addressed beforehand. I think from what I saw from the Pentagon that in their statement they said that this was an invitation by Secretary Hegseth for Elon Musk to come visit with the secretary. They did not provide actual details on what the meeting would be.
PHILLIP: But, I mean, are you concerned about the fact that he would be given a briefing about war plans? I mean, these are literally the most sensitive of secrets. And, yes --
LAWLER: Well, considering that the United States --
PHILLIP: Just because you have a security clearance, as you know, doesn't mean that you have access to everything. Security clearances at the highest level are in a need to know basis documents like this in particular. And so the need to know is the question here and the conflicts on the other side of that ledger, which is someone who has business interests in the relevant country and also has competition interest trying to kick other contractors potentially out of contracts for these very war plans. Is that concerning?
LAWLER: Look, again, any conflicts of interest should be addressed. But in the case of obviously Starlink, we see the United States military is utilizing Starlink with respect to military plans. The United States Navy uses it significantly.
[22:05:02]
Obviously, when you're talking about issues pertaining to China and their expansion in the Indo-Pacific, the threats against Taiwan, obviously, these are significant issues.
So, look, any conflict should be addressed, no question about that. But it is the secretary and the president that actually have the authority to provide the need to know.
PHILLIP: They do, but it doesn't mean that it's wise, Congressman.
FMR. REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): So, notice Congressman Lawler did not answer the yes or no question. Should this be concerning? Yes, absolutely. Elon Musk is trying to be the real life Tony Stark. And we can see him coming a mile away. We don't trust Elon Musk. That's why the American people are up in arms in protests and in town halls and Republican districts across the country. They are pissed off based on what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing, firing tens of thousands of workers only for the courts to reverse the firing.
This is absolutely a conflict of interest, but the Trump administration and Elon Musk, they don't care. Elon is trying to be the first trillionaire and he wants to be an oligarch that not just controls American governments, he wants to control world governments, and Congressman Lawler is not going to criticize him because Elon Musk is a major donor to Congressman Lawler's reelection campaigns and that's the problem. We don't have Republicans in Congress.
PHILLIP: Is that true, Congressman Lawler?
BOWMAN: Yes, it is very true.
PHILLIP: Is he a major donor to your campaigns?
LAWLER: Not directly.
PHILLIP: I just want to make sure that.
LAWLER: No, not directly to my campaign. He had an independent expenditure that he spent on dozens of Congressional races.
BOWMAN: The second biggest recipient of the money after Donald Trump.
JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: We're devolving into this fetish, this cult, this hatred against Elon Musk. I don't know. PHILLIP: It's none of those things.
BORELLI: Yes, it is though, because every single thing about Elon Musk has now resulted in people burning Teslas in major cities.
PHILLIP: This story is not about any of those things. This is actually a basic story about national security, about whether or not someone who has the interest in, for example, other contractors who have access to Pentagon dollars, having access to special information that they don't have keeping them out of their contracts.
BORELLI: Do you not think that the CEOs and executives of Pentagon and Boeing and Northrop Grumman are not involved?
PHILLIP: And he has business with a government that we have described -- we have this -- when our defense contractors get these big contracts, they cannot have other contracts with other foreign adversaries. That's a national security issue.
BORELLI: Understood, understood. However, again, this is someone whose products, his innovations, right, are being used by the American military as we speak. This is someone who the government relied on to rescue two astronauts from space because no one else could do it.
Maybe I'm the crazy one at the table, but I'm actually comfortable with someone who is incredibly effective at putting small objects and large objects into orbit over China.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Are you comfortable with potentially Elon Musk showing these plans or giving intelligence to China?
BORELLI: You're insane. You're just making that up?
HINOJOSA: I'm not. I'm not. I'm saying that is why, as Abby was saying -- hold on, this is why Abby was saying it's on a need to know basis. It's a need to know basis because only a handful of people have this information. Not only that, I was a former Justice Department official up until two months ago, and I had a security clearance. What I will tell you is --
BORELLI: And you're living up to my --
HINOJOSA: Can you let the woman --
BORELLI: Go ahead. Go ahead. You interrupted me. I was talking here. You interrupted me.
HINOJOSA: What I will tell you is that it is so --
PHILLIP: It's a conversation. She's allowed to talk.
HINOJOSA: The Pentagon, what is happening here, and everyone needs to be scared, is Pentagon officials are sounding the alarm. This doesn't just happen on its own. This has happened because career officials within the Pentagon are terrified and they believe that there is a conflict of interest. That is why it is in The New York Times. Because I am sure they took it to the senior most people within the White House and within the Pentagon, and they didn't do anything about it.
And when people ask me when I left the Justice Department, how do we know that there is something unethical happening here? And I said, it will be the career officials within the Justice Department who will sound the alarm if something happens. That is exactly -- it is happening right here.
LAWLER: Where were those career officials when Joe Biden was basically incoherent as president of the United States, and you had officials within the White House running the show, creating a disaster all around the globe? Where were those career bureaucrats?
HINOJOSA: He was not creating a disaster.
LAWLER: Oh really?
HINOJOSA: This is a national security.
LAWYER: You think that what happened between -- by allowing China to purchase Iranian petroleum to the tune of $200 billion and funding Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis was not a disaster? Are you kidding me?
BORELLI: Going back to this. Do you really think that Elon Musk is going to sell --
HINOJOSA: I cannot believe it.
BOWMAN: Well, Republicans just say scary words.
(CROSSTALKS)
Let's let Sara get in here.
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: The issue is just that there is not a uniform understanding of whether or not we trust Elon Musk, right? Clearly, you think that it's just crazy that Democrats don't trust him.
BORELLI: Do you trust the CEO of Raytheon?
FISCHER: No, I'm not. But here's what I would say to that.
[22:10:01]
That is the clear issue. So, if Elon Musk was an elected official, the Americans could, with their vote, decide whether or not he's that they trust with America's national security. Because they didn't get to vote him in, that's why I think you're seeing a lot of this uproar.
Typically, a lot of career officials, they're not necessarily elected, but a lot of career officials work their way up, and Americans trust them because they put the time, effort, and energy into public service. That is where the frustration is. (CROSSTALKS)
BORELLI: Can we take a quick step back?
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
BORELLI: You're all obsessed with this guy.
PHILLIP: So, just a second. What evidence do you have that the CEO, let's just say Raytheon since you keep bringing it up, has business conflicts in China?
BORELLI: I don't know. Boeing sell airplanes to China, ever defense contracts?
PHILLIP: No. What is the business conflicts on the military side? Do you have any evidence of that?
BORELLI: I have more evidence probably of that than she does that Elon Musk is going to --
PHILLIP: No. Okay, hold on --
HINOJOSA: I don't have evidence. This is a concern that was raised in The New York Times article. If you have that evidence, then what is it?
BORELLI: Again, there's probably -- we can do it on the break, right? We can Google it on the break.
PHILLIP: I guess what I'm trying to say here --
BORELLI: She's making a point that I'm trying to make is that there's a fetish. It's bizarre.
HINOJOSA: No, it's not a fetish.
BOWMAN: It's a New York Times reporting.
HINOJOSA: It's a concern for our national security.
BOWMAN: We can just bring this up out of thin air. Let's take a step back for a moment.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hang on a second. One at a time. Go ahead, Congressman.
BOWMAN: Yes, We are sitting here on March -- what is this -- whatever date it is, talking about a potential war with China on the same day that the Department of Education was shut down and hungry, poor children across this country may not be able to have school lunches and breakfast in school.
BORELLI: I don't know what that has to do with it.
BOWMAN: Let me tell you what that has to do with it. Our priorities during this dictatorship and this oligarchy are completely strewed up. It's a military industrial complex. It's a corporatocracy, and it's Elon Musk who is stealing from the government, going into federal offices, downloading data. We have no idea what the hell he's doing with the data. This is why Americans are up in arms, not just Democrats, Americans are up in arms across the country because we don't trust Elon Musk. That's the problem.
PHILLIP: Let me just add one more --
BOWMAN: The New York Times reported this, man.
PHILLIP: Joe and Jamaal, just give me one second here, because the other element of this that is raised in the story is the potential that this has to do with DOGE cuts, that that Elon and DOGE are looking to make dramatic cuts to the Pentagon and don't understand the military importance of some of these programs that they're looking to cut. On top of that, Elon has been particularly critical of certain contracts, again, contracts where he stands to benefit if his competitors are pushed out. And that part of it, should he be making decisions about what to cut if he does not have a fundamental understanding of why they are needed, and, no, you don't need to know what the war plans are in order to understand how the military uses its contracts and its supplies to prepare for a war with any entity, including China?
LAWLER: So, first of all, I've heard my Democratic colleagues for years talk about the need to downsize the Pentagon and downsize the spending.
PHILLIP: I don't think that's question. I think the question is how and who. That's the point that I was trying to get at.
LAWLER: Okay. Well, the how and who is going to be determined by the department and by Congress. But here's the bottom line. My Democratic colleagues have argued for years that the Pentagon is too big, that we need to downsize the size and the scope of the Pentagon.
And so you're sitting here now arguing, saying, well, Elon Musk is trying to cut the size of the Pentagon. Well, if he is going to go in and make recommendations to the secretary of defense, which is what the administration has outlined in the last few weeks, they had that cabinet meeting, and the president made clear Elon Musk's role is to advise, to make recommendations. The cabinet secretaries are the one who is going to make the determination. So, if he's meeting with Pete Hegseth --
PHILLIP: The only reason I'm stepping in is because I think you're mischaracterizing my question to you.
LAWLER: No, I'm not mischaracterizing.
PHILLIP: No. What I'm asking you --
LAWLER: Pete Hegseth invited him to the --
PHILLIP: Congressman, what I'm asking you is if you say -- I think you're right. It is up to Congress. It should be, probably, up to the Pentagon civilian and military leadership to understand what the needs are. That would be fine, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about Elon and DOGE, who have no understanding of these systems, stepping into that conversation. And I'm asking you whether you think that's appropriate.
LAWLER: Well, actually the way the Department of Government Efficiency has been established, they do have career staff as part of it within each department, and they are working closely within the leadership of each department and with the Department of Government Efficiency to identify specific efficiencies and savings. What the president has said --
PHILLIP: This clearly suggests that he doesn't have a basic understanding of it, which is why he needs a top --
LAWLER: Well, who's suggesting it?
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Well, the article suggests that the reason for the briefing is because he -- they need him to understand why, for example, building ships is important in a potential war with --
BOWMAN: Let me help him. Let me help the congressman.
LAWLER: I don't need your help.
BOWMAN: He's taken a very long time --
PHILLIP: Hold on, Jamaal. Just give me a second here, because I just want to finish this and we've got to go. If in fact he doesn't understand this, why is it that he's involved in these conversations if the only way to get him to understand is to give him a top secret briefing?
LAWLER: Well, again, within each department and agency, he is meeting with the secretaries. He is meeting with top officials within each department and agency as they are coming up with the recommendations, as they are going through all of the data, all of the information, to make the appropriate recommendations. Should he not be meeting with the cabinet secretary?
PHILLIP: No.
LAWLER: I mean, ultimately, one quick point, though.
PHILLIP: This is not a meeting with cabinet secretaries. We're talking about a briefing on -- we're talking about --
LAWLER: Well, no. Pete Hegseth invited him to come and meet.
PHILLIP: All right. Well, the article is talking about a briefing that Pete Hegseth himself only got last week and it was finished on Wednesday. He literally is getting this information for the very first time. And he is the defense secretary. And now two days later, Elon is getting that information? That doesn't surprise you at all?
BOWMAN: Can I just say one quick thing. The Pentagon has failed audits for several years. If DOGE was looking for waste, fraud and abuse, you start there. The Pentagon should not fine tens of billions of dollars.
BORELLI: It sounds like you agree with her.
BOWMAN: But he didn't start there. He didn't start there. He started the treasury, with 19-year-old kids hacking America's data. Then he went to Social Security.
BORELLI: They weren't hacking.
BOWMAN: USAID.
BORELLI: I don't know if you're saying he wasn't doing a good enough job.
BOWMAN: We don't know what he's doing.
BORELLI: I guess we should run a test.
PHILLIP: All right. We got to leave it there. Sara Fisher, thank you very much for joining us.
Everyone else, hold on. Coming up next, a mayoral candidate confronts Donald Trump's border czar and is now getting racist threats as a result. He's going to join us in the table in minutes.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go (BLEEP) yourself, you terrorist. Matter of fact, you're going to watch my European feet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Is the Trump dragnet too wide? Tonight, two headlines suggesting that Trump's rush to deport migrants is just too rushed, and putting potentially innocent people in the crosshairs. This from the Associated Press, everyday tattoos got Venezuelan men I.D.'d as gang members, and deported, lawyers say. Another from The New York Times, a Canadian who was in American Pie says ICE held her for 12 days.
Immigration is a clear flashpoint, case in point. Meet Zohran Mamdani. He is the brash Democratic socialist whose internet fame is for bringing the fight to the Trump immigration czar. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D-NY): How many more do you officially can detain? How many more do you (INAUDIBLE)? Do you believe in the First Amendment? Do you believe in the First Amendment, Tom Homan?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But, with that new notoriety, Mamdani is now the target of vicious, vulgar attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go (BLEEP) yourself, you terrorist. Matter of fact, you're going to wash my European feet.
You filthy (BLEEP) sand (BLEEP).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you (BLEEP) Muslim piece of (BLEEP). I hope a (BLEEP) illegal puts a (BLEEP) bullet in your (BLEEP) head. Get out of my country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, a lot of this, Zohran, is coming from in the wake of a lot of these arrests pro-Palestinian activists and protesters, but also the broader immigration issue has really hit the city hard.
MAMDANI: Yes. And, you know, I think we've seen that when a New Yorker who's a permanent legal resident of this country was dragged, disappeared, and detained without charge. And those are the reasons that I asked those questions of Tom Homan, which is at the forefront of many New Yorkers' minds. Do you believe in the First Amendment? What are the charges that you're holding Mahmoud Khalil on? And how many more New Yorkers will you detain?
And when I said those things, these are the messages that I received. And it's just a glimpse into what was flooding into my office the day after and the days after. But I'm not intimidated. I shared them to show what happens when a Trump administration that ran on cheaper prices, on lowering the cost of living, and on a message that resonated with New Yorkers on Fordham Road and Hillside Avenue has instead shown itself completely unable and uninterested in delivering that, and instead is pivoting to the one thing it can do, which is deliver cruelty to its perceived enemies.
PHILLIP: I mean, if Trump were doing as he said he would do and focus on the criminals, that would be one thing, but there is also a lot happening where criminals -- people who are not criminals are getting caught up in this and people who have points of view, perhaps that are opposed to by this administration are getting caught up too.
LAWLER: Well, I think obviously the vast majority of people that ICE has engaged with are criminals, have either criminal convictions, have orders of detention against them or orders of deportation. As ICE goes into different communities across the country to engage these folks, they are coming across other individuals. Obviously, you know, there will be instances, unfortunately, where there is either a misidentification or a mistake that is made.
But the vast majority of people who have been detained are those who have committed criminal acts either here in the United States or committed crimes in their country of origin before they came here illegally.
PHILLIP: Isn't that why due process is important in this conversation? And that's one of the things that the Trump administration is pushing back really hard on, this idea that they can just deport people using a wartime power that is disputed.
[22:25:06]
And they don't have to, say, prove that they are actually in a Venezuelan gang. It could be a soccer player who's here on an asylum claim.
MAMDANI: I mean, and this is at the core of what has outraged so many New Yorkers, is that we still don't know the charges for which they have detained Mahmoud Khalil. And what we've seen, in fact, is an inability to prove them because there are no charges. This is an attack on the First Amendment. It's an attack on one of the most core things about being an American, which is the right to engage in political speech without fear that your government is going to lock you up.
LAWLER: Well, I would strongly disagree here. First of all, Mahmoud Khalil came here on a student visa, did ultimately get a green card. But the fact is you are not entitled to either a visa or a green card. And under the Immigration and Nationality Act, the secretary of state does have broad power when somebody is engaged in conduct that is perceived to be a threat or has a negative impact on our foreign policy. That is what they are utilizing with respect to Mahmoud Khalil.
And the bottom line here is that these protests, by and large, and I went to Colombia at the height of those protests back in April of last year, I've been to Columbia multiple times, I listened to the chants that were being engaged with.
And the bottom line is, in many of these instances, these students have been engaged in rhetoric and conduct that has threatened the safety and wellbeing of Jewish students on campus. They've been engaged in conduct that promotes propaganda put forth by a terrorist organization.
PHILLIP: Isn't that speech? But isn't that speech, Congressman? Isn't protest and languid rhetoric --
LAWLER: If you are here on a visa --
PHILLIP: I know. But the question is --
LAWLER: You are not entitled to that visa.
PHILLIP: But the question is, what you're describing sounds like speech to me. Is it speech in your view?
LAWLER: Well, you think at the height of these protests that there was not physical violence? You did not keep speech that was actually threatening the physical safety and wellbeing?
PHILLIP: I think that if there was physical violence, then, absolutely, that should be prosecuted.
LAWLER: And so when you're calling for the eradication of Jews --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on a second, Jamaal, just a second. The question is, have they brought up evidence of that? Has there been physical violence accused here? No. And the answer is no. So, I'm wondering --
LAWLER: The process will play itself out, but the secretary of state has brought authority under that legislation.
PHILLIP: Yes, speech is a means to revoke someone's visa. And if that's the case, the administration should absolutely say so, so that can be litigated.
LAWLER: When you are engaged in propaganda on behalf of a terrorist organization, yes, that is a problem. Sorry.
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
BOWMAN: Brother Mahmoud Khalil is here legally. He is a student --
LAWLER: Nobody is arguing that.
BOWMAN: Okay. So, he's here legally engaging in peaceful protests and he was detained. We have no idea what the charges are. You don't arrest and then try to throw charges at the wall to figure out what sticks to try to get him deported. Thank God there was resistance and he was not deported.
You mentioned the secretary of state in the broad jurisdiction there, but you use the keyword, perceived. If the secretary of state has an agenda, like this administration, and they perceive someone to be a threat because they use language that they don't like or understand, they can lock them up and possibly deport them?
Free speech is free speech. Brother Khalil did not engage in any crime, did not hurt anyone physically. Free speech is free speech. And it's under attack under this dictatorship. And if you question the agenda of this particular administration, Elon Musk used a Nazi symbol sign at the inauguration. This is what we're dealing with this administration. There's an agenda to support and uphold white supremacy.
PHILLIP: Joe?
BORELLI: Just, you know, again, the obsession with Elon Musk, just to go back to what we talked about last segment. Taking this back to 40,000 feet, this is another 80-20 issue where I think Trump is winning because the sympathy out there for people who on October 8th, the day after October 7th, October 8th, they started in the streets here in New York, and what that amounted to was cheering on the people in Hamas who crossed over the border and murdered babies and women and children in their beds. That's what happened.
So, spare me because I don't have an ounce of sympathy for anyone who was out there, part of those protests cheering them on. Goodbye, good riddance. Maybe I'm wrong.
BOWMAN: He wasn't sharing --
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Xochitl.
HINOJOSA: I think we're all talking about speech versus deporting someone or trying to attempting to deport someone.
[22:30:01]
And I think this will be held in the courts. And I think what you've seen from Donald Trump and the administration is that when it goes to the courts and they don't rule in their favor, they end up attacking the judge. And I think you'll continue to see this.
I actually agree with you that I think that the administration believes that this is a big win for them. I think that having these fights in court, they love that. They love the battle to try and showing the images of people being arrested or reported or any of those things. I think they are truly enjoying that.
They don't understand the impacts that it's having our country and the long term impacts and how people are angry about them. But I do think that people -- they -- this was their plan all along.
UNKNOWN: And Muslim does -- go ahead, Zohran.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D) NEW YORK STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, look. I - I think it's as you said, it's critical for us to be fighting this dismantling of the first amendment. And what is so galling is that it's not just a dismantling done by a Republican administration in D.C.
It's one that's also being done with the support through the silence of a number of other candidates for mayor, namely disgraced former governor Andrew Cuomo, who took seventy two hours to say even a word.
And when he issued that statement, we still didn't know whether he actually opposed the detainment or whether he was calling for the release of Mahmoud Khalil. And this city needs someone to lead it that is willing to fight the Trump administration, not collaborate with it in the manner of Eric Adams or that which Andrew Cuomo is --
(CROSSTALK)
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I think what the general public sees, is a Democratic Party that is more interested in defending people like Mahmoud Khalil, than they are victims of crime here in New York City, than they are, Jewish students have who have been subjected to vile anti-Semitism across these college campuses and universities, or than they did seeing Democrats refuse to stand for a 13 year old boy who's suffering from cancer who was made a Secret Service agent.
That's what the juxtaposition is right now. That's what the American people are seeing. And they're looking at it and they're going, these people are out of their minds.
MAMDANI: You know what?
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
MAMDANI: You know what, I think also, the New Yorkers are seeing is a Jewish student by the name of Grant Miner, who was the president of the United Auto Workers Local on Columbia's campus that was just fired by Columbia administration for participating in those same protests. These are students that deserve their rights to be respected. These are ones that deserve to be recognized by those of us who aspire to be leaders across the state.
PHILLIP: I got to leave it there, but I just want to point out, I mean, no one is supporting the harassment of Jewish students.
LAWLER: Yes. They are.
PHILLIP: No.
LAWLER: Respectfully, yes they have. Yes they have.
UNKNOWN: No one is.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me just -- let be clear. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. Let me -- let me be clear. I'm talking about here at this table.
UNKNOWN: Of course not.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: No one at this table supports that or violence or anything like that --
LAWKER: Yeah, except they failed to move forward on numerous instances --
PHILLIP: Congressman, Congressman. But I do think --
LAWLER: -- of anti-Semitism (inaudible) all across the country.
PHILLIP: Congressman --
LAWLER: And Chuck Schumer refused --
HINOJOSA: They brought a lot of --
LAWLER: -- refused (inaudible) with the anti-Semitism Awareness Act.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Just give me a second. The other -- the other thing that I want to point out here is that if the Trump administration is making speech public or private, a means for deportation, they should make that case in court. That is all -- that is the only question.
LAWLER: The Secretary has brought power under the Immigration Nationality Act? That is what they are utilizing.
PHILLIP: I think that's fine. I think that's fine if that is the theory.
LAWLER: That is what they're utilizing.
PHILLIP: They -- they got to bring it to court, and the courts will decide whether that is appropriate in this country. State Representative Zohran Mamdani, as you can tell, he's running for mayor of New York City. Thank you very much everyone for being here.
Hold on, everyone else. Coming up next, a big twist tonight in the Democratic Civil War. AOC and Bernie Sanders are attracting big crowds, and their message, this time -- it's a brawl.
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[22:38:16]
PHILLIP: Harder, better, faster, stronger. Tonight, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wages that Democrats would do a lot better with voters if they looked less like diplomats searching for a compromise and looked more like prize fighters for the working class.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This isn't just about Republicans. We need a Democratic Party that fights harder for us, too. But what that means is that we, as our as a community, must choose and vote for Democrats and elected officials who know how to stand for the working class. I want you to look at every level of office around and support brawlers who fight because those are the ones who can actually win against Republicans. Let's be real about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Brawlers. I assume that you approve this message.
JAMAAL BOWMAN (D) FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN, NEW YORK: One hundred percent. Absolutely. Democrats are in a crisis right now. They're on life support. They have a testicular fortitude problem.
They are not fighting nearly as hard as they need to fight for the American people as was seen last week during this C.R. vote in the Senate. It's a problem. And for me, it's not about the parties because the parties are going to kind of do their thing.
It's about the people rising up and holding the parties accountable. Democrats have fighters -- Jasmine Crockett, AOC, Ayanna Presley, the whole squad, Greg Casar, Pramila Jayapal, and governors and mayors across the country are fighters.
[22:40:09]
But we need some of the OGs in the party to elevate, uplift the younger people and take a step back.
PHILLIP: Or do they need to -- do they need to step aside?
BOWMAN: And -- or step aside because we need to hear new, fresh, bold voices. That's what the American people want. And if we don't -- and if the party doesn't do that, the party is about to be finished.
LAWLER: I hope that AOC, Pramila Jayapal, Greg Casar -- I hope they're the new face of the Democratic Party, because Republicans will be winning elections all over the country --
BOWMAN: What?
LAWLER: -- if that is the case in the Democratic Party.
BOWMAN: Are you crazy?
LAWLER: Are you?
BOWMAN: I mean, you all look --
LAWLER: Listen a district like mine that Joe Biden won by 10 points, okay, 10 points. Kamala Harris won by half a point. Okay? I won by six and a half points, 24,000 votes in a district that has 85,000 more Democrats than Republicans. Why?
PHILLIP: You're right.
LAWLER: Because the Democrats --
BOWMAN: Yeah, but you ran against a coin ball candidate
LAWLER: You had -- he was your friend.
BOWMAN: He was not my friend.
LAWLER: He was your friend long ago.
BOWMAN: You had someone running against you who was not a strong candidate. And we still --
LAWLER: Well, that we agree on. But --
BOWMAN: We still have consultants and big money controlling the Democratic Party --
LAWLER: -- you're missing -- you're missing --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -AOC over -- outperformed Kamala Harris in her --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Come on now.
UNKNOWN: Sure.
PHILLIP: Trump did --
UNKNOWN: Sure.
PHILLIP: -- Better than --
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLER: But -- but here's my point. The -- New York, look no further than New York, where issues like cashless bail have been a disaster. Issues like sanctuary state status, congestion pricing. In districts like mine, where Democrats on paper should win big, they're losing.
And so, if the messenger is AOC, who by the way was originally from my district, she grew up in Yorktown, not The Bronx. If AOC is the face of the Democratic Party in swing districts all across this country, she will mobilize voters way more than Nancy Pelosi ever did for the Republicans.
PHILLIP: Let me just add the counterpoint within the Democratic Party to what AOC is saying from -- this is Elissa Slotkin. She gave the Democratic response to the State of the Union address much more of a moderate voice in the party. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): I can't just chain myself to the White House and become an activist full- time because you and others here are going to call me for things that you need. All of those things require me to be more than just an AOC. I -- I can't do what she does because we live in a purple state and I'm a pragmatist. I got to save face for my people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Things are getting messy over there.
UNKNOWN: See, that -- that' --
BOWMAN: Come on, son.
PHILLIP: It's just getting very messy.
BOWMAN: That's white flag energy right there.
PHILLIP: Names are -- names are being (inaudible) on the table.
BOWMAN: That's white flag energy right there.
BORELLI: No. I think she's right. I think she's right.
BOWMAN: What do you mean that she's right?
BORELLI: Because I think it's -- I think it's easy.
BOWMAN: First of all, you've been choosing her to give the response to governor Trump.
BORELLI: That's your --
(CROSSTALK)
BOWMAN: I should call him Governor Trump (ph).
BORELLI: You should be the chairman, by the way, when you're thinking about this.
BOWMAN: This is crazy.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, let me let Joe finish. Go ahead.
BORELLI: You know, she is right in the sense that it's easy to throw grenades. You can be an AOC and throw grenades all-day in a safe district and not have to account for anything.
BOWMAN: What do you mean?
BORELLI: There's a huge delta between the hype of AOC and the accomplishments of AOC. And frankly, if you look at --
BOWMAN: What?
BORELLI: -- that tour, look at that tour she was just on with Bernie Sanders, right? It was called the fighting oligarchy tour, right? They essentially traveled the country and spoke to an echo chamber of people who already agree with them. How is she and Bernie Sanders with their message going to attract people in swing District?
PHLLIP: I guess what I wonder is maybe what they're looking at is actually --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: I welcome her to my district.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Maybe what you're looking at, Joe, is what the Republicans did, which is all of the guys who stood around screaming in Congress and not passing any legislation, those folks are in power now. They won at the end of the day.
HINOJOSA: I think that this is where I will actually agree with you. I do think that there is a difference between Bernie Sanders and AOC going and talking to our base and a difference between the senator who was just selected has to show results for her state, has to -- in a swing state, a battleground state, and she has to deliver something versus AOC and Bernie are just they're talking about the base.
I will say I was at the DNC in 2017 after this almost this exact same situation. Bernie Sanders asked Chuck Schumer, let me go out and talk to our base. This is exactly what he did in 2016. This date -- it's 2017. This is deja vu. You know what happened when Nancy Pelosi -- everybody was asking for her to resign. You know what she did? She embraced the new generation of the Democratic Party, lifted them up --
LAWLER: That's right.
HINOJOSA: -- and said, you know what? I'm going to step aside after the midterm elections, and I'm going to lift everybody else up. We've done this before.
LAWLER: And that's why she worked to block AOC from becoming a ranking member of the committee.
HINOJOSA: We've done this -- we've done this before. We can do this --
PHILLIP: That also happened. That also happened.
BOWMAN: See, the tens of millions of people who are staying home, they're staying home because we're not elevating new voices in the Democratic Party.
LAWLER: No. You're not. Your chairs, your ranking member is Maxine Waters on financial service.
[22:45:00]
PHILLIP: Okay, I think, to Congressman Lawler's point, this is not just a Chuck Schumer thing. I think it's happening pretty broadly among some of the -- the older contingent in the Democratic Party. But that's another day.
Coming up next for us, as voters get fed up at a town hall over DOGE cuts, a judge is blocking Elon Musk's access to Social Security data. And a Republican at this table is livid over the closing of a Social Security office in his district.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:02]
PHILLIP: Tonight, outrage at the federal government over a decision that has real consequences at the local level. Congressman Mike Lawler at this table tonight posting this, "The decision to close the only Social Security hearing office in the Hudson Valley is a slap in the face to thousands of my constituents who rely on these services. Concerns about mold don't justify abandoning folks in the Lower Hudson Valley."
Congressman, so this is an issue that actually a lot of your colleagues, Democrat and Republican, have been speaking out about. But in addition to the office being closed for mold issues, and as you point out, this process started in December. That office is on the DOGE list for cuts.
LAWLER: Yeah. So, the office closure, notification came to us in December under the Biden administration for two reasons. One, the issue of mold, and two, the lease. The lease was expiring, and it seemed that the landlord did not want to renew it. I and others, including, George Latimer and Pat Ryan, you know, immediately sprang to action.
We reached out, to the administration, the new, administration, the Trump administration, about trying to find a solution. Westchester County offered space, physical space, within the county government, to house, the hearing office, and we got a letter back saying that, no, you know, these other five locations.
Now this, Social Security Administration has had real challenges, and I'll -- and I'll point them out here. Rockland County, where I live, Rockland County's office was shut down in May of last year by the Biden administration for -- temporarily to renovate the space. It was supposed to reopen in September. They didn't start construction until December. It's now slated to open in May.
So, what I'm pushing with the administration on the -- the White Plains Hearing Office does not shut down until May. I'm pushing to now have the Rockland office house, the White Plains hearing.
PHILLIP: So this is, I mean, this is exactly the kind of issue, that the DOGE cuts is bringing up, which is that real people are affected by, what they're putting on, their website as a leaderboard, to count up the cuts. And, yes, the numbers matter, but so do the people who are affected by cuts like this.
HINOJOSA: That's right. And I think regardless of whether it wasn't something happened in the Biden administration or now, I think it's wrong to --
LAWLER: Oh, exactly. That's why I'm pushing back.
HINOJOSA: -- limit, you know, and to make it harder for people to get their benefits. I think that this is just one example and especially with the DOGE cuts where it impacts real people. And as people see the impacts over the next few months, this is why you're seeing people within town halls so angry on both sides of the aisle because of just the impacts that are happening across the country.
PHILLIP: Let me play some of that sound from some of these town halls this week. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE FLOOD (R-NE): I support Elon Musk and the Department of Energy. Next question.
UNKNOWN: Next question.
(CROWD CHANTING "Deport Elon Musk, Deport Elon Musk")
UNKNOWN: It's so bizarre to me how obsessed you are with federal government, but -- but here's the thing. All Josh is doing is -- you guys are going to have a heart attack if you don't calm down. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Look. Just -- in case you didn't pick this up, that was Nebraska and Wyoming. You talked about 1820 (ph) issues. What they're doing with DOGE is -- is by far one of the most unpopular things that Donald Trump is doing.
BORELLI: No, I think it's popular for many people, but I think what you're seeing is Democrats organizing --
BOWMAN: Fair.
BORELLI: Congressional town halls --
BOWMAN: No.
BORELLI: -- with the purpose of being -- with the purpose of being -- I don't doubt the polling.
PHILLIP: Polling says voters --
BORELLI: I don't doubt the polling.
PHILLIP: -- do not support drastic cuts. They do not think Elon has the expertise to do the cuts.
BORELLI: I don't doubt the polling.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: They don't even -- they don't even dispute that government should be -- hold on a second. They don't even dispute that the government should shrink. They just don't like how it's being done.
BORELLI: My point is you played a video of a town hall as though it's evidence of some broad anger that's out there, and it's not. This is what happens every time there's a Republican majority in the House. The Democrats organize. They go to town hall. They go to town halls. They organize. They get loud. They get viral moments, and they --
HINOJOSA: I'm sorry. Our party is not that organized.
BORELLI: Oh, are you saying --
HINOJOSA: Our party is not that organized -- organize town halls right now.
BORELLI: You're trying to interrupt me. You're not letting me speak.
HINOJOSA: It's a joke about my party. I'm just so --
BORELLI: You're right. I should let you keep going. You're right. But my -- my point is, this is just an organized way to get viral moments and get the clips played on nighttime news shows, and that's what's happening.
BOWMAN: That's not true, man.
PHILLIP: The last words to Jamaal.
BOWMAN: That -- yeah. That's not true. And this shows, again, the American people do not trust Elon Musk, and Elon Musk is incompetent in his position. And how do we know? Because they fired tens of thousands of people, was challenged in court, the court said the people have to go back and now the people are coming back. He's incompetent, he's a thief, he's a Nazi, and people don't trust him. Period.
[22:55:04]
PHILLIP: All right.
LAWLER: Let -- let me just make a point, okay? As a member that is in a swing district, okay, I have and continue to do in person events, including today, where I was protested by climate activists, okay? They showed up, barged into a, private luncheon with the Rockland Business Association, and screamed and yelled for five minutes and then, finally left.
But Chuck Schumer went on the airwaves multiple times now, including today, and said, we are organizing to send protesters up to Republican districts here in New York, including mine. And they have been working, the Democratic party, along with activist organization, including Indivisible, to organize and mobilize voters both within the district and outside.
BOWMAN: Right. That was the whole auditorium.
PHILLIP: Isn't that is the sign of energy, though, that should be concerning?
LAWLER: By the way, that is -- that is --
BORELLI: That is a sign of good organization.
BOWMAN: That was a whole auditorium screaming at those --
LAWLER: Let me -- just let's say, that is democracy, and that's fine. But let's not act like organizing Democrat activists is somehow news. It is not.
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it there. Congressman, we do commend you for holding town halls. Many of your colleagues are not.
BOWMAN: No. He hasn't held it in person.
LAWLER: We announced --
PHILLIP: Former Congressman Bowman --
LAWLER: We announced the forum has already done over 50 town halls in the Oval Office.
PHILLIP: -- I just have to say, your opinion about Elon Musk is your opinion about Elon Musk. More on our breaking news coming up next. Elon Musk is set to get access to top secret military play -- plans in a potential war with China. Laura Coates is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
