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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump And White House Deflect, Spin, Downplay Intelligence Breach; Waltz Admits Error, Then Suggests Journalist Hacked Into Chat; Waltz Says, Working With Musk To Figure Out Tech Blunder; "NewsNight" Panelists Discuss U.S. Economic Jitters; Rep. Jasmine Crockett Under Fire For Calling Abbott Governor Hot Wheels. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 25, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, denials.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: there was no classified information
BERMAN: And deflections.
TULSI GABBARD, DNI DIRECTOR: I have not participated in any Signal group chat.
BERMAN: The Trump team builds a defense to quiet outrage over the Signal chat used to share secret plans.
Plus, the spin zone, the White House tells the country there's nothing to see here and its media defenders follow dear leader.
Also consumer contradiction, American's confidence in their economic future falls again as the president insists all is well.
And a conservative antagonist invites more fury by joking about a Trump Ally's disability.
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): You all know we got Governor Hot Wheels down there.
BERMAN: Live at the table, Van Jones, Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison, Shermichael Singleton, and S.E. Cup.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN (on camera): Good evening. I'm John Berman in New York in for Abby Philip.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, call it our own little group chat. The Signal scandal, tonight, the Trump administration is trying to pull in Olivia Pope and convince the country it's handled, that it won't repeat the blunder of putting national security secrets on a commercial messaging app and accidentally adding a journalist to that chain.
It's also continuing a relentless attack on that journalist, who, by all accounts, did nothing other than accept an invitation on said messaging app, how dare he, and then not publish sensitive information until after the military operation took place to make sure no one who shouldn't know didn't know. Imagine being careful like that.
So, Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, is the one who invited The Atlantics, Jeffrey Goldberg, on board inadvertently, he says, though he also seemed to suggest today was somehow Goldberg's fault that he was invited. On Fox tonight, Waltz did say lessons have been lured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WALTZ, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: And we're going to figure out how this happened.
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: So, you don't know what staffer is responsible for this right now?
WALTZ: Well, look, a staffer wasn't responsible. And, look, I take full responsibility.
Have you ever had somebody's contact that shows their name and then you have somebody else's number there?
INGRAHAM: Oh, I've never make those mistakes.
WALTZ: Right. You've got somebody else's number on someone else's contact. So, of course, I didn't see this loser in the group. It looked like someone else. Now, whether he did it deliberately or it happened in some other technical mean is something we're trying to figure out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: This loser, as he says, that he invited. At a Senate hearing today, the CIA director and director of National Intelligence initially made the assertion that there was not classified information on the chain, but that could be a semantic distinction because the CIA director went on to note the secretary of defense has classification authority. In other words, if he decides to share it, it is somehow not classified. The president too took noted pains to say none of what was discussed on the chain was classified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, it wasn't classified, as I understand it. There was no classified information. There was no problem, and the attack was a tremendous success.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: But there is a little question based on Goldberg's report and others who saw the exchange. It was sensitive and specific information about targets, weapons, and more before the actual attack. So, even if it wasn't legally classified, as they say, well, certainly important stuff.
Let's get right to the discussion. Van Jones, you sat down with a scowl on your face.
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
BERMAN: Grumpy about what?
JONES: Because nothing bad happened, but it sure could have. I mean, I think there's a way that, you know, when, you know, it goes to somebody who's a responsible journalist and then a bunch of our soldiers don't get killed, then we can kind of laugh it off and this and that.
Listen, when I worked in the White House the first day, they sat us in a room and scared the living crap out of me, explaining to me all the ways I was going to go to prison if I did this, if I did that, if I did this. Why? Because it's the most sensitive role you can have. You have 300 million people expecting you to do a good job and to follow the rules. There's no reason to be on Signal at all.
So, the idea that, well, I was on Signal, but I made a mistake, dude, you are not supposed to do that.
[22:05:00]
You could have gotten people killed. And I'm just very frustrated that we somehow entered this circus atmosphere where everything is funny and everything's cool, it's at some point something bad is going to happen because of this type of stuff.
BERMAN: And it was Jeffrey Goldberg's fault somehow?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I know Jeff pretty well. He's a very responsible journalist. And thank God.
JONES: He was.
CUPP: And thank God because some other idiot maybe wouldn't have sat on this and done the responsible thing.
But I think, to me, what everything Van just said is correct, and I share those concerns. To me, the most alarming part of this is that we are hearing Mike Waltz and Donald Trump say, well, we learned our lesson. He learned a lesson. This is not an internship. No, I mean, I'm serious. The national security of our nation shouldn't be where we're doing on the job training. It shouldn't be where we're figuring out it as we go. If we can't trust our national security leaders to protect our national security from the second they get on the job, I have deep concerns that go far beyond this mess that just happened. BERMAN: The idea today, the main thrust of the White House argument all day seemed to be Jeffrey Goldberg still a bad guy, which explains how we managed to invite him on this group chat. And, secondly, it maybe wasn't classified because Pete Hegseth sent it.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
BERMAN: Is that satisfying? I mean, that really was the message today from the White House.
JENNINGS: Yes. And, you know, none of us have seen, you know, what was supposedly war plans and there's still a dispute over just how sensitive it really was. But I do think it's noteworthy that the White House is able to acknowledge a mistake, say they're going to learn from it, say they're trying to figure out the technical issues that led to it.
I mean, they did own up to it. I mean, obviously there's been some rhetoric and hyperbole around Goldberg and others, who, by the way, I agree, acted responsibly in this particular case, even though if I have some quibbles with what he's done in the past. He did absolutely act responsibly here.
So, I think that's actually a refreshing thing for the government to say, okay, yes, effed up, we'll fix it, this won't happen again, especially when you contrast it with previous military and national security snafus in our recent history, in which no one was held accountable, no one was fired, no mistakes were admitted. Until the very end Joe Biden was saying Afghanistan was a success.
I like it here that Donald Trump, the president, said he's a good man, but he learned a lesson. That tells me he and the president with Waltz had a hard talk.
BERMAN: The information about targets, the weapons being used, the timing, that's not of concern?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I don't have kids, but I feel like this is when you walk into a room and you told your kid don't draw on the wall, and they drew on the wall and they have marker all over their face and all over their hand and they're like, I didn't do it. Yes, you did. We're not stupid. You did it. And you're not really admitting. You're like, have, well, I'm sorry, but not really sorry. We deserve better.
Who is being held accountable? Who is running the investigation? Who was being --
BERMAN: Well, Michael Waltz is running the investigation.
ALLISON: I know.
BERMAN: That's what the president said today, Michael Waltz.
JONES: He's investigated himself.
JENNINGS: He has to because he's the one in control of it.
ALLISON: But he's the one who made --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: You guys are acting like he ran out with a mask and robbed a bank. He obviously had a technical snafu and he needs in his office to figure out how it happened.
ALLISON: But here's the thing. The thing is don't be on signal. That's --
CUPP: But we know how it happened. Technically, don't be on the app.
ALLISON: I've done this a lot of times. I triple, I've been on emails where I'm like, oh, I wasn't supposed to be on that. I delete it, keep it moving, don't spread the T. But what he did -- but I don't work in the White House anymore. He should not have been on Signal for that to happen. There's a way to avoid the mistake.
JONES: And there's a reason. I think sometimes people at home are like, well, you know, people break rules, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No. We have geopolitical adversaries that want this information so they can kill Americans. The gun to your head every day in the White House is what I'm doing, if I don't handle it right, can have devastating consequences. So, you handle every piece of paper. You don't even throw stuff away. You put it in a burn bag so it can be burned. You are so terrified that you're going to do something that get Americans killed.
So, the idea that you have the vice president of the United States on Signal --
ALLISON: I know.
JONES: That's nuts.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But, John, look, they're doing the right thing in terms of acknowledging that an error occurred. You have to do that. Number two, you have to move forward with a comprehensive review of how did this occurred. And then you implement stricter communications protocols moving forward so that it doesn't happen again.
Now, look, you can go from Democratic administrations to Republican administrations and find various issues as it pertains to intelligence. 1995 CIA disinformation controversy, Valerie Plane where her name was accidentally leaked when it shouldn't have, Hillary Clinton in the 33,000 emails, and some of those emails had classified information on it, it shouldn't occurred, and then to Scott's point, look at Joe Biden and Afghanistan.
[22:10:00]
Every administration, Republican and Democratic alike, have had some type of snafu with something like this pertaining to highly classified information. We correct it, we acknowledge it, and we move forward. And that's what the administration and the county ought to do.
CUPP: But the difference is the people responsible now were yelling, lock her up about those things. And they weren't right about that. They were right that she messed up and I held her accountable as well. All of that was bad. But the hypocrisy is so ranked, these very people are giddily firing people who know what they're doing and should be there. And meanwhile, no one's going to be held accountable for them.
ALLISON: Also, Shermichael, real quick, there already are -- like we don't need to put new rules in place. There already are rules. They broke the rules. That's the thing.
JONES: Two sets of rules.
ALLISON: Is that they -- two sets of rules, right? They were on a form of communication they should not have been on. They knew better and they did not do better. When you know better and you do not do better, you face consequences. That's what I'm waiting for you.
SINGLETON: I understand that. I would understand that, but I want to go back to this buying thing in Afghanistan. Well, before we go back to buying Afghanistan, can we stay on actually what happened the last 24 hours first, because I have two questions on the subject that are important?
Number one, if you guys saw the hearing today, Tulsi Gabbard and CIA director, DNI Tulsi Gabbard and CIA Director John Ratcliffe up there, kind of the tortured way they approached the fact that they said there was no classified information, first, no classified information. Then, oh, well, we didn't post any classified information. Then finally it was, well, Pete Hegseth is responsible for classified information, so if he posted, it's not classified. That seemed pretty tortured.
Then the second thing Waltz said later today, and I just want to throw this out there, after attacking Jeffrey Goldberg all day, every one of the administration, oh, he mischaracterized this, it wasn't classified, Michael Waltz said tonight he doesn't want it all released out there. He doesn't want actually people to see it.
ALLISON: I bet he doesn't.
CUPP: Why?
BERMAN: Right? So, is that contradictory?
CUPP: Of course. Well, of course it is. You can't have it all the ways. You can't say that Signal is super secure, yet we unwittingly added a journalist to it. That's crazy. You can't say that, you know, there's no classified information on there, but I bet if Jeffrey Goldberg wanted to release it, he'd be facing some legal jeopardy. You can't have it all the ways.
And with Pete Hegseth saying nothing was classified, this is a hoax, and then you've got other folks like DNI Gabbard saying, well, I don't know if it was classified, it might have been classified, but if he classified it, then it's not classified. You're talking about accountability, transparency. They got -- they took responsibility. I've seen none of that yet. I've seen obfuscation so far.
SINGLETON: You know, that's a fair point. And the reason I brought up Biden was not to go backwards in the past, because I know people are going to say why is Shermichael bringing that up, the point that I'm trying to make is that there are double standards in politics in general. Democrats at the time said, oh, Afghanistan, it was okay, the president did a wonderful job. He handled this well.
JONES: I didn't.
SINGLETON: And here we are, and S.E.'s making a valid critique about how this is being handled in this particular case. And all I'm simply saying to the American people, the double standards exist on both sides. We have seen it.
JONES: Let me just -- the one thing I would just say though is I do try to call this stuff fair. And that's true. And what I would say is this is really bad, okay? Like it's really bad just because it seems like maybe a lot of people in the administration are doing this. Because the vice president didn't say, hey, dude, you're breaking the law. J.D. Vance went to Yale Law School. He knows the law.
So, nobody thought it was weird to be doing this, which means this could be widespread, which means more Americans could be at risk. That's my concern.
JENNINGS: I think that it is a teachable moment, obviously. And I think, you know, I would be shocked if anybody ever does it again, which is a good outcome of this.
JONES: I hope not.
JENNINGS: And I think two things can be true. You can have a mistake, you can acknowledge a mistake, and this communications issue is a mistake that can be rectified. But the other thing that can also be true is what did we learn? High ranking officials having a thoughtful policy discussion while executing a military plan to take out people who need to be taken out. There was a lot of concern about this national security team when it was appointed that, hey, you know, they didn't really know how to do these jobs.
CUPP: Yes.
JENNINGS: Given what the U.S. military just did to the Houthis, given what they just did, and given the way it was executed and handled at the highest reaches of our government, I have a lot of confidence in the president's decision-making and his top team's ability that to carry out.
CUPP: That is bananas. We just saw --
JENNINGS: we did exactly what we wanted to do.
CUPP: And that's fantastic. But we just saw how wrong this should have gone.
JONES: It almost blew up.
CUPP: No, this is rank incompetence. And I am very fearful and amazed that this went off so well, because what could have happened could have been so bad.
ALLISON: The other thing is like the totality of circumstances also, like this is the thing we know, what we know. How many other Signal chats are happening about every -- who knows -- if you've ever been on Signal, for folks who do not use Signal, it is the wonkiest app, messaging app ever. Like you are careless when you -- you can easily add somebody accidentally, but like Signal is --
CUPP: It's also hackable.
ALLISON: It's hackable.
CUPP: Yes.
ALLISON: It's just like do better, be better.
BERMAN: All right.
[22:15:00]
I will note, I don't think -- I can think of any other successful military operations where the secretary of defense told a journalist the targets and the weapons being used hours before the attack took place. So, that is a novel outcome in this case.
We're going to have much more on this, including Elon Musk now apparently getting a new job tonight. Mike Waltz, the national security adviser, says that Elon Musk is going to help solve this technical blunder.
Plus, we're just getting word that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who was on that chain, will be speaking moments from now. I wonder if the words Jeffrey Goldberg will come up. Standby for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
BERMAN: So, ownership, accountability, promises to be better things you might like in a relationship and from your government that you give your taxpayer dollars to, but when it comes to how some in the administration and some close to the administration are handling this signal screw up, sometimes it's a little bit lacking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: -- deal out of this, because we've had two perfect months.
WALTZ: This journalist, Mr. President, wants the world talking about more hoaxes and this kind of nonsense rather than the freedom that you're enabling.
REPORTER: Mr. President, following up on that information was not classified.
TRUMP: Another question, please. Go ahead.
WALTZ: I just talked to Elon on the way here. We've got the best technical minds looking at how this happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, there it is. Elon Musk helping Mike Waltz lead the investigation into Mike Waltz.
ALLISON: This is how the best technical minds. What was the technical glitch? These thumbs. These thumbs added you, and that's the technical glitch. You made a decision to do something you were supposed to, and you made a mistake.
JONES: You do not need the guy who can come up with a neural link to figure this out. I mean, Elon Musk is a genius. I don't like what he's doing right now. But the idea that you need to bring in Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, who's got five tech companies, to figure out your thumbs?
ALLISON: Talk about waste, fraud, and abuse.
CUPP: And this is what I mean about the obfuscation. This is now going to, you know, let's shift the narrative to let's hunt down the mole or whatever. You know, they're going to pretend this is, and we were talking in the break, this reminded us of like Anthony Wiener, right? Like, you know, those pictures come out and he is like, I'm going to get to the bottom of this. I was hacked. And even though you weren't, you just sent it.
This to me feels silly and, again, like taking us for fools. We all know what happened. I'd have a lot more respect for these idiots if they just said, I made a mistake. I made a giant mistake. We will make sure that this mistake never happens again, and we're going to do some training on how we communicate and we're going to lock it up.
JONES: And follow the law. Or how about this, we're going to now follow the law because you don't need any training. They don't let you walk in that building without the training. The training is follow the law and stay in the SCIF and don't do dumb stuff.
SINGLETON: Look, follow protocols. I think everyone agrees. I think they recognize that they made a mistake here. I would use this opportunity, John, last segment, I went all the way back to '95 and I brought up all of those examples to showcase that we have a history, at least in the past 30 years, of really screwing up the way we handle highly classified information. Why not use this moment, not only as a teachable lesson, but say, you know what? We're actually going to implement some changes moving forward for future administration so that --
CUPP: You don't even need change it. You just need to follow the existing laws.
BERMAN: Did they make the situation better today? This story broke yesterday. They've had a day to play out there. Is it better today?
JONES: And maybe it is, maybe it's not. But there are a lot of people who are good, hardworking people who follow the rules. So, the reason why we're beating this horse to death is because there are a bunch of people who follow the rules working for the federal government. They went to college, they got a master's degree, they got another degree. They're working for the federal government. They didn't break any rules. They're homeowners. They're taxpayers. And this same crew threw them out on their butts and said that they are not worth even the respect of a decent dismissal because they're going after waste, fraud, and abuse.
And so for this crew of people who've been so cruel, who've been so heartless and who've been so condescending to people to actually be incompetent rule breakers themselves, it stinks.
JENNINGS: I don't know.
JONES: You'd say differently?
JENNINGS: Well, look, I don't disagree with you that a mistake was made. I don't disagree with you that obviously people internally are like, oh my gosh, you know, we got to figure out how to not look like this in the future and not make these mistakes. But at the same time, I just want to go back to something I'm very happy about. We are pounding the bad guys here.
CUPP: Yes, we're all happy about that.
JENNINGS: The president of the United States reversed a major policy mistake of the last administration, and we are pounding the bad guys and we're sticking it to Iran and we're making the world safe again for shipping and for our Navy and for the boats out there.
This was ultimately a correct call by Trump. Yes, we're talking about this communications mistake, but I know a lot of Republicans today who were like, this is a mistake. I don't like this part, but boy oh boy, am I glad for a decisive commander-in-chief on a clear decision.
ALLISON: What about calling you're a pathetic in those messages?
BERMAN: Calling Europe.
CUPP: Europe, our allies.
ALLISON: Our allies.
JENNINGS: They say that publicly. I mean, they say --
ALLISON: Well, there was some, there was that --
JENNINGS: Are you under any illusion that we're out here telling Europe how great they are as a public matter? There is a standoff going on right now between the president and the vice president and the leaders of Europe about what they need to be doing to secure their own countries. And, by the way, they're right. [22:25:00]
They do need to step up and do something.
BERMAN: So, Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, we understand, will speak in a little bit. He's in Asia right now, hence the time difference right there. We're expecting comments. We have no idea what he's going to say. What do you think he'll say? And will it make the situation better or worse?
CUPP: I think just seeing Mike Waltz there again sort of doubling down on the hoax, which is what Pete Hegseth first. When he got a first fight at the apple to talk about this, he called it a hoax, and then he demeans Jeffrey Goldberg. Mike Waltz did that just an hour or so ago. I expect Pete Hegseth will go there again. I hope he doesn't.
JONES: Yes.
CUPP: You're so much more of a man, Pete, when you just acknowledge the buck stops with me. I will not let this happen again. I will make sure that everyone knows this is not the way we're supposed to communicate, that would be so much more reassuring and confidence inspiring than this is a made up hoax and whining about stuff we all know is not true.
SINGLETON: I mean, look, you acknowledged the mistake, you move on. Talk about how the administration is keeping the American people safe. I just talked with Sebastian Gorka couple days ago, national security adviser to the president.
ALLISON: That's not --
SINGLETON: No. That's not why I'm bringing it up. The point that I was going to make though here is we talked a lot about what the administration is doing to correct some of the errors as it pertains to national security from the previous administration. Focus on those things. That's what the American people care about. I don't think the average person cares about this past three, four days. We move on.
JONES: Look, I hope that they do what you say and hope they do what you say. This is very dangerous. I just want to say, again, we got very lucky.
ALLISON: We did.
JONES: If this had gotten into the hands of some idiot or somebody who was smart enough to just not say anything and keep gathering and keep gathering and keep gathering, we could be in real trouble.
BERMAN: Jeffrey Goldberg will have this text chain forever.
JONES: Yes.
BERMAN: All right. A reminder, any moment, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is expected to speak as this fallout continues. We will see if S.E. Cupp is right with her prediction that he will go on the attack. Plus, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett under fire tonight after she mocked the governor of Texas who is in a wheelchair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROCKETT: You all know we got Governor Hot Wheels down there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:52]
BERMAN: All right. Confidence like RIS. You either have it or you don't. And Americans right now, they don't seem to have it about the economy. Consumer confidence slipped again this month to its lowest level since January 2021. That was in the middle of a COVID pandemic winter.
The short term outlook for businesses is at a 12-year nadir. The president, though, says that he's kind of looking at everything through rose colored glasses. Listen to what he said about -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're going to talk about how good some of these numbers are way ahead of schedule. These are private sector manufacturing jobs. So we gained all of those jobs, 10,000 jobs, and we barely started yet. These numbers really reflect a lot of the -- a lot of things that took place since November 5th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
So, the new consumer confidence numbers came out today. They were down. The ones -- the Michigan numbers that were out a few weeks ago, they were also down. What message are consumers sending?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's opposite of risk, okay? The confidence -- the consumer confidence is "scibbity toilet" to quote my -- to quote my general. And that is the -- that's the whole ballgame.
BERMAN: Straight to jail -- straight to jail for you. Straight to jail.
CUPP: Consumer confidence is the whole ballgame. I would venture to say it's why Democrats lost because Democrats were telling voters the economy is great, strong as hell in fact, and consumers and voters knew differently. They did not believe it. They didn't feel it. So consumer confidence is, I think, an incredibly important metric of how the -- the health of an administration, the health of the party, and, how much leeway voters are willing to give Trump as he soldiers on through these dumbed air forces.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that that's just the point. He's executing on a brand new political agenda and in a brand new economic agenda that is a total turnaround from the previous administration, meaning spending less government money, and having less sort of artificial, spending in the economy and really investing more in private sector employment.
It takes some time. There is a lot of evidence out there that manufacturing is coming back. There is investment coming back to The United States, but the effects of that will not happen overnight. But transitioning the economy from one that is based on what the government can do for you versus what you can do for yourself in the private economy is going to be a transition. I would just point out right now, the right track, wrong track number in -- in all the polling --
CUPP: Yeah.
JENNINGS: -- is better than it has been --
CUPP: Yeah.
JENNINGS: -- in years. So, despite the consumer confidence numbers --
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON: That's true.
CUPP: Yeah.
JENNINGS: -- people -- there -- there is evidence that the American people think maybe we are onto something here and I'll feel better about the economy when I -- when it feels like my life isn't quite so expensive.
CUPP: Well, give them some time. They're not going to give him forever, though. And -- and that the effects of the tariffs might be felt before the effects of some of this investment you're talking about.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Then I -- I think it's hard to be confident when there's feels like there's a lot of chaos. In other words, there -- there are two ways to get to the change. I don't agree with your characterization, but I do agree that there's change here. But you -- you can be a steady hand with the change or you can be up and down all over the place. Now as a chair, from now there's not. And I just think the everyday person just looks at this.
[22:35:00]
It just looks unstable to me. And I think that's where the lack of confidence comes from. I agree with you. Some --some of these, right track, wrong track numbers are encouraging because people just think, well, somebody's trying to do something.
JENNINGS: Yeah.
CUPP: Yeah.
JONES: That's -- that's good. But -- UNKNOWN: Agree.
JONES: -- but I think -- I think that this administration could have -- have the cake and eat it, too, if they weren't so erratic.
BERMAN: Let me just throw one quote out there from Stephen Moore, former Trump economic adviser, who's been concerned about the way this administration has been talking about terrorists.
What Stephen Moore says about these consumer confidence numbers, he says, "The reason I'm concerned is that perception can become reality. If consumers feel bad, it can become reality. People stop spending, that's going to affect the real economy. That's the worry. My policy advice for Republicans, stop talking about tariffs --
UNKNOWN: Yep.
BERMAN: " -- and get the tax cuts done quickly."
SINGLETON: Yeah. Look. I think that's good advice. You know, I was just reading a McKinsey Report today and when you look at the variations between age groups, what you find according to that analysis, older individuals are more concerned. They're saving more money. But when they asked millennials, millennials said that they were looking forward to spending more money this year compared to last year.
They're confident about their economic outlook in the future overall, which may hint towards why the President increased his numbers with younger voters, writ large. So, I -- I think it depends. I think you definitely got to figure out tariffs. You can't turn them on, turn them off.
But from a different perspective, being a younger person, a millennial myself, I feel excited about what's to come. There's a lot of economic opportunity, a lot of business opportunities, and I think a lot of younger people are also seeing that the same way.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I myself is a millennial, and I don't feel as excited as you, but --
SINGLETON: You weren't in that McKinsey Report then?
ALLISON: No.
BERMAN: By the way, I spent all my days reading McKinsey.
ALLISON: Right. By the way, I think though, I Guess I wonder -- I guess I wonder, you know, rewind the clock back six months. We were talking about the voter that will go to the grocery store and try and buy eggs and, you know, have to work a couple of jobs. I think their life is still the same.
JONES: It's about the same.
ALLISON: Right? And the question is, will they get to quit one of their jobs --
CUPP: Yeah.
ALLISON: -- because their pay goes up based on these policies. I don't think they will, actually, because you guys don't want to raise the minimum wage. Prove me wrong. Let me finish, let me finish. Like, are -- are prices going down? Are people buying more homes? Or, you know, this -- the instability, I -- you know, we -- we read a lot of polls. We read a lot of polls. I just think that if you actually go to talk to people in Middle -- Middle America, those working class folks, they don't -- their lives haven't improved yet, and they're waiting to see if they will. And their -- the -- the leash is not that long here.
BERMAN: Can we -- there's one bit of information I just got. I guess it's vaguely on the subject of government spending or giving money to people, including, in this case, January 6th, rioters. Yes, Donald Trump just did an interview. The president just did an interview on "Newsmax" where he was asked about the possibility of reparations for people involved with January 6th. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG KELLY, "NEWSMAX" HOST: Is there any talk of -- because they lost opportunity, they lost income, any kind of compensation fund --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, there's talk about that. We have a lot of people talk about -- a lot of the people that are in government now talk about it because they -- a lot of the people in government really like that group of people. They were patriots as far as I was concerned. I talk about -- I talk about them a lot. They were treated very unfairly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Van, there's a lot of talk about that?
JONES: My head is about to fly off my shoulders and flip around the room and blow up on the set because you -- you're talking about people who beat up cops. I -- my -- my father was a cop in the military. My favorite uncle, Milton, just retired from Memphis City Police Force. I'm a law enforcement kid.
I can put up with a lot of stuff. Beating up cops is not one of them. Period.
And so, you're now saying that these are patriots who deserve reparation -- the cops that got beat up might deserve reparations. The -- the lawmakers who got scared half of death might deserve reparations. I don't know. African Americans who've been mistreated for forty years, might at least get a study on reparations. But this -- this is an insult to anybody who believes in law and order in this country.
ALLISON: I just -- sorry. I want to talk to the black folks who voted for Donald Trump, and they were mad because Kamala Harris said she wouldn't do reparations or Joe Biden said. This is your president. Reparations for January 6th rioters.
CUPP: Scott, you've been really clear on your disavowal of what happened on January 6th. I'm just -- I --I want to hear what you have to say about what Trump just said.
JENNINGS: Yeah. I'm not interested in reparations for this. I mean, I think there are procedures in place if someone feels like they were improperly dealt with in the criminal justice. I mean, you can sue, you know, and -- and go through the civil system. But I -- I don't think this is a policy that should be pursued. And, I mean, look, the truth is a lot of these people and some committed violent acts and some didn't, but they all got pardoned. So -- they all already got something. Very valuable.
CUPP: Right.
JONES: Right. Right.
CUPP: Free. Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I mean, I just -- I just -- I don't -- I don't know who's really asking for this. I -- I don't think --
BERMAN: I think it was Greg Kelly.
SINGLETON: I don't think Republicans, John, on Capitol Hill want to focus on this. I mean, Ashley raised some good points about the cost of living.
[22:40:00]
You raised good points about access to affordable housing, what goods have gone down, what goods have not gone down. We have a housing shortage. That is something I think the administration could really, really focus on particularly for younger people.
We can focus a little bit more on working with businesses, manufacturers to figure out how do you lower cost writ large. Maybe you incentivize them through some type of tax mechanisms. These are the things we should be focused on, John. I'm not necessarily certain that this is it.
BERMAN: I'm not sure any of those words were in the answers that -- that the President just gave Greg Kelly right there.
SINGLETON: Well, I just gave him a --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: I mean, it was a very Trumpian answer, I -- I should say. He said, well, there's talk about it. There's talk about a lot of people in the government.
JENNINGS: I didn't hear a commitment to it. BERMAN: No.
JENNINGS: And he got asked a question, and his -- his M.O. is to sometimes indulge the question, muse a little bit about it. I didn't hear anything definitive there, and my hope would be that - that --
BERMAN: But there's a much different way to answer that question, which would be --
ALLISON: No.
BERMAN: All right. Thank you all for that. Next, she has become, public enemy number one for some conservatives. And tonight, congress -- Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett is again under fire after she called Greg Abbott, who, of course, is paralyzed, Governor Hot Wheels. How she is responding to that criticism.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:46]
BERMAN: All right. Jasmine Crockett apparently subscribes to the if you can't beat them, do what some of them do school of thought. Here is what the Democrats said about Republican -- the Republican Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): We, in these hot ass Texas streets, honey, you all know we got governor Hot Wheels down there. Come on now. And -- and the only thing hot about him is that he is a hot ass mess, honey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, Abbott can't walk, requires the use of a wheelchair. Crockett insists she was talking about Abbott's policies and not alluding to his condition before adding that MAGA can't really say anything because they support a president who has mocked disabled people in the past. It is worth noting, Scott, that she has, in the past, made a tweet that did refer to wheels in rolling before.
JENNINGS: Yeah. And she tried to walk it back and obviously forgot about her previous, commentary using that exact same insult. I -- I don't know how the Democrats came to appoint Jasmine Crockett as the unquestioned leader of your party, But thank God.
And I think what she should do is go on TV twice as much as she is right now, maybe three times as much. Because every time she appears and makes one of these mistakes, says something radical, it only further divides her party from the rest of the other 80 percent of America who can't stand this.
But the problem is there's an audience for it. I heard Jimmy Kimmel's audience cheering on Tesla vandalism. I hear "The Daily Show" audience cheering on attacks on Elon Musk. I hear the human rights audience cheering on an attack on a man in a wheelchair. And I realize this is what the left has become, an angry mob of people who are cheering on attacks on a guy in a wheelchair and vandalism against people who bought a Tesla is pathetic.
CUPP: First of all, have you met MAGA? Have you been to a MAGA rally where Trump is mocking a disabled journalist or a POW or saying we should -- we should punch him out? I mean, it is rich. And let me tell you, I have been very, very out there on criticizing Trump for that disgusting, disgusting rhetoric that has coarsened the language around politics. It's gross. He's why we got here. And what she did was disgusting.
And I am not going to accept her spin of this. It's disgusting and gross to mock someone who is disabled just because you don't like them. And if Democrats, this is your idea, this is the -- this is what your party is going to do now, is do Trump but gross but worse, and then pretend it's not I -- "I'm not here for this," and please do better. Please. This cannot be the answer for the future of the Democratic Party.
ALLISON: I mean, I think actions speak louder than words. And in this instance, I think we have a president who, when the plane crash happened in Washington, D.C., he blamed it on people with disabilities.
When RFK says that autism is a threat to the American way of life, which is a disability, apparently, the White House has ended ASA -- ASL, American Sign Language interpreters and briefings, which is making it inaccessible.
Questioning and gutting, Social Security, which a lot of disabled people rely on -- Medicaid, Medicare people rely on. And in his first campaign, mocking disability. Two wrongs don't make a right, but actions speak louder than words.
And the policies of the Republican, including undermining special education ID, the individual's Disability and Education Act, making sure that schools are not going to be accessible, those are the actions of this administration. Those are the actions of the Republican Party. I would rather folks be demonizing those things than --
(CROSSTALK)
CUPP: But to be fair, you don't agree with what she said, right?
ALLISON: Well, her explanation was that she wasn't referring to that policy if she --
CUPP: So you buy that?
ALLISON: But -- but here's the thing. If you make fun of somebody because of their disability, I do not agree with that as a person with a disability, as a person who has family members with a disability, as a person who has taught children with a disability.
[22:50:00]
That is not acceptable. She said that's not what she was doing and so I know Jasmine and I believe Jasmine if that's what she was saying.
JONES: Well, I -- I don't know her yet. And so here's -- here's how -- how I see it. She's -- she's new. She's young and she's trying to find her way. I think that this party is scrambling, trying to seem tough, and -- and I'm seeing -- I'm seeing this party traffic in a lot of curse words, that's supposed to, like, the new cool thing to do. I don't think that that's going to be as useful. I even heard Pete Buttigieg --
CUPP: Yeah.
JONES: -- with a whole bunch of curse words. I don't know who gave that memo. I don't think that's very useful. I think you have to be very careful when you're talking about people with disabilities, and I don't think -- I don't think she was careful.
And I don't know her enough to say she's not being honest. I'm going to tell you, it sounded bad. And -- and I just want to -- I just want to get -- I just want to finish. I think this party is trying to find a way to look tough and to show fight, but this is not the way.
I don't -- I don't think the cursing is going to work. I think you -- I've -- I've been on stage, and I've gotten, you know, a little bit hyped sometimes, too. I -- I hope that she will take this -- you talked about learning lessons, that type of stuff. It doesn't sound to me like she's actually taking full responsibility. If that's true, I don't like it, and she can't do that again. She's too important to us to do that again.
JENNINGS: What I fear is that no lesson -- no lesson could ever be learned as long as you're doing these things in front of audiences who roar when you do it. When you have comedians who are broad messengers for the left, making unfair jokes --
JONES: But Scott --
JENNINGS: -- and people are roaring.
JONES: But Scott --
JENNINGS: When you have politicians being vulgar and saying, you know, what -- what's the lesson?
JONES: But -- but what you're trying --
JENNINGS: What's the audience? It says a lot about the audience.
JONES: No, but what you're trying to deal with is what Trump has done and he's been successful.
ALLISON: Yeah.
JONES: So when you have somebody who does this stuff and they're successful, you start thinking, well, is that the right way? I would like for us to say it's not. But I think it's hard for -- it's hard for us to hear Republicans scolding us on it when you're -- when your guy does it all the time. We are trying to find a way forward.
Jasmine is too important, to make these kinds of mistakes. I think she has a -- a bright future. I hope that tonight she's looking and says, you know what? I don't have to do that kind of stuff to get -- to get an applause line. She's too important for us to make those kind of stuff.
SINGLETON: And her tweet, her not so apology, I will call it, she said she was talking about his policies. Let's look at the policies of -- of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, a state that my parents reside in -- 2023, 2024, it was the number one state that most Americans moved to, a Republican state, the second largest economy in the country. It would be the eighth if it were indeed a country itself.
The fastest job growth in America right now is out of Texas. That's Republican policies. Those are conservative policies. That's why Republicans maintain leadership in 2022 moving forward.
ALLISON: It's also the state where -- where women don't have the right to bodily autonomy, where a woman literally just died from not getting --
SINGLETON: And it's a state where the greatest economic prosperity in this country.
JONES: But -- but those are good policies. Don't --
SINGLETON: She's against.
JONES: And don't run over dead women.
BERMAN: Stand by, both of you. For a moment, any moment, defense secretary Pete Hegseth speaks as the fallout grows over the intelligence breach.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:44]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEMELE HILL, PODCAST HOST, "SPOLITICS WITH JEMELE HILL": I had a rule that if I was on a date with somebody or in that kind of initial interaction where it's like, okay, you know, this -- this guy, you know, there's some level of flirting that's going on. If they asked me about Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, immediately that deal was canceled. I'm like, do you want to be on a date with Stephen a Smith? Because this -- this is doing nothing for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's my red flag, too. Okay, it's time for Nightcap's red flag edition. You insert Jemele Hill and my first date, red flag. She was talking about it from when she was single. So, you each have 30 seconds to tell us your red flag, Ashley, by popular demand, you're first.
ALLISON: All right. You see what I was doing being on my phone when I'm supposed to be paying attention? Put your phone down. You're not that important. Like, if you if you, like, if you have kids, tell me that at the beginning of the date. But, like, being you know, so I'm like, okay. Then check your I mean, I guess every 15 minutes, 30 minutes, that's all you really need, or have a good babysitter. But put your phone down for a date.
SINGLETON: I'm putting my phone down, Ash. I'm not on the phone. Look, I'm from the South. I'm a bit traditional. I'm conservative in a lot of ways. If a woman tell -- and I'm married now, but if a woman were to say, I can't cook, that's a red flag for me. I would never marry a woman who can't cook. We -- we got to have kids. You got to take care of the kids. I'm going to help, but I expect dinner to be prepared. They can't do that. That's just what I believe.
JENNINGS: What about shoes, Shermichael? Shoes on, off in the bed?
SINGLETON: Barefoot -- barefoot in the kitchen. I'm just -- I'm not -- I'm just very traditional.
BERMAN: S.E.?
CUPP: That's amazing. Okay. I would never date a man who has never been to therapy. All people out there, like, raw jogging their mental health, I don't get it. I don't trust you. If you have not worked on yourself ever, we are not -- no. I don't trust you. I don't -- I don't think you're good.
SINGLETON: You're getting better man.
JONES: Mine is very simple. If -- if they want to watch horror movies, I do not want to be involved with you. No, I do. It's scary, and it's gross, and it makes me uncomfortable. And, no, I do not want to be with you.
BERMAN: Scott?
JENNINGS: You guys are looking at this all wrong. You all are trying to minimize red flags. Let me just give you an alternative theory. More red flags, the better.
UNKNOWN: What?
JENNINGS: I just think that maybe -- it may be the crazier is better on these first dates.
[23:00:00]
CUPP: What?
JENNINGS: I'm saying, minimize --
ALLISON: Dating them?
SINGLETON: You know what, Scott? That's true. That's true.
UNKNOWN: What are you talking about?
SINGLETON: You are avoiding a lifetime of craziness. That's right.
JENNNGS: Maybe you guys maybe on the wrong track.
SINGLETON: That's right.
JENNINGS: If you guys are looking for perfect, and I think -- I think, you're letting perfect be the enemy of the crazy. And you all went crazy. You're letting perfect be the enemy of the crowd. Crazy.
ALLISON: Black flags is how you ended up with Donald Trump.
BERMAN: All right. Everyone, thank you all so much. If everyone's watching, the world remains single forever. Thank you for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts now.
