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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Democrats Stage Protest On Senate Floor, U.S. In Crisis; Eve Of Electoral Test For Trump And MAGA With Special Elections; Trump Says, Not Joking About Unconstitutional Third Term; Trump Soon Marks What He Calls "Liberation Day"; "NewsNight" Tackles Due Process Of Law For Illegal Migrants. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 31, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, 70 days and 11 hours in, Democrats have had enough.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Tonight, I rise with the intention of getting in some good trouble.
PHILLIP: But will their public bite have teeth?
Plus, what began as a troll --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: It would be the greatest honor of my life to serve, not once, but twice or three times or four times.
PHILLIP: -- now appears to be a serious plot for more power.
TRUMP: They do say there's a way you can do it.
PHILLIP: Also, the president gets into the holiday spirit.
TRUMP: This is the beginning of liberation day in America.
PHILLIP: While Americans are afraid to celebrate.
And Elon Musk makes cheese heads feel like a million bucks --
ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Let me first hand out two $1 million checks.
PHILLIP: -- on the eve of a big electoral test for Donald Trump.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Karen Finney, Ashley Hayek, Dan Koh and Franklin Leonard.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, anger. If there is one through line over the past few months, Americans are not happy. They don't like the Democrats and that's an apparent in this poll number and lack of identity. They don't like the Republicans either on everything from mass firings to trade wars.
So, right now, there is some space here for someone or something to take advantage of that unrest. Tonight, that person may be Senator Cory Booker. He's hoping to fill that void.
The Democrat, as we speak, is in the middle of a marathon speech on the floor of the Senate to protest the Trump administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOOKER: In just 71 days, the president of the United States has inflicted so much harm on American's safety, financial stability, the core foundations of our democracy.
I believe generations from now will look back at this moment and have a single question, where were you? Where were you when our country was in crisis and when American people were asking for help, help me, did we speak up?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: This protest comes on the eve of an electoral test for MAGA with special elections in Florida and also in Wisconsin.
Franklin, Democrats are not happy with their own party. I mean, they're looking for somebody to do something. And this is a tool that has been used by Democrats and Republicans to make a point, to shut down the Senate essentially, and make a point and say, we think that this is a serious moment.
FRANKLIN LEONARD, FOUNDER AND CEO, THE BLACK LIST: Yes, I mean, look, I have a lot of respect for Senator Booker. I'm a fan of his personally. And I think hopefully this is part of a broader strategy to raise sort of collective voices about what's happening in the country right now. I worry that a single speech on the floor of the Senate, while there's no there's no legislation that's really at stake here. As the kids say, I'm not sure that's it. And --
PHILLIP: Yes, I'm not sure you're alone in that.
LEONARD: Yes.
PHILLIP: I mean, floor speech on the Senate is not exactly --
LEONARD: I mean, look, I would love to see him wipe Strom Thurmond off the record books and go 24 hours and 19 minutes. But even that, I'm not sure that's enough. And I worry that it's indicative of the fact that the Democrats don't really understand what they're up against here. You know, when you're facing a team that is dang pressing you all over the field and you decide to hold the ball for a bit, that's typically not going to win you the game.
PHILLIP: So, what do you think is the answer? What is closer to the answer?
LEONARD: I wish that I had the answer, and if I did, I'd probably be speaking about it a lot more vocally. I think that it's a multi-front war that we're fighting on behalf of the American people. I think we need to be at town halls. We need to be speaking to the American people, and I think we need a cogent identity and point of view about how we will better serve the American people than what the Trump administration's currently doing. And I don't know that we've communicated that as effectively as we need to.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, Scott --
LEONARD: You would think that it would be self-evident on some level.
PHILLIP: But the town hall stuff has happened, right? I mean, and there is something happening out there where at least, you know, I know, Scott, you believe that these are all AstroTurfed, but even if you believe they're AstroTurfed --
[22:05:06]
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't believe that.
PHILLIP: You've said that before.
JENNINGS: I don't think they're all AstroTurfed. Some are. But I think they're basically Democrats.
PHILLIP: It's representative of some kind of anger, wouldn't you say?
JENNINGS: I definitely think it's representative of anger in the Democratic base. There's no question about that. And I think Booker's moves tonight are representative of the fact that there's a vacuum at the top of the Democratic Party. There's no leader. The only leader that really exists is Jasmine Crockett. She's the one you see on T.V. most often. Booker's trying to, you know, fill some of that vacuum.
I'm puzzled by his language though. What is the crisis? You have a president of the United States that won the national popular vote and a landslide in the Electoral College. He has sitting, according to CBS News as of yesterday, at a 50 percent approval rating. What is the crisis? I mean, he's effectively executing on the policy agenda that he ran on and he's sitting at about 50 percent, which is far higher than the last president. If this is a crisis, what was the Joe Biden term? A mega crisis? I don't know.
DAN KOH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CABINET SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think the crisis is that we're seeing people deported without due process. We're seeing the very fundamental aspects of our democracy at question. That's what people are scared about. And so they want to see -- I think the one thing you and I can agree on, Scott, right now is the Democrats aren't doing what they need to do. Can we agree on that? Well --
JENNINGS: I don't know.
KOH: I think we can all agree on that.
JENNINGS: Look, you raise a good question because I think -- and, look, my party's gone through this. You lose and then everybody wants you to do something, right? What are we going to do? Sometimes there's not much to do until you get to the next election. That's the next great opportunity to --
KOH: That's where we disagree because I think people are looking to their leaders in a time of fear, in a time of crisis that so many Americans right now are feeling. And so when they look at D.C. and they see people what they perceive to be rolling over, they get even more scared.
So, look, is what Senator Booker's doing in a vacuum going to solve everything? No, but it's a start. We need thousands and thousands and thousands of more acts like this from our elected officials to show that we have that fight in us, that we're not going to roll over for the democracy we believe in.
PHILLIP: I also think that, I mean, to your point, Scott, your point is that they -- maybe you shouldn't do anything, but that's actually not what Republicans have done in the past. I mean, they had a whole Tea Party movement that was that same kind of anger, basically saying to their base, get up and do something, and that powered the moment that we are in right now.
ASHLEY HAYEK, PRESIDENT, AMERICA FIRST WORKS: Well, I think the crisis that he's talking about is their 28 percent, 27 percent approval rating within the Democrat Party. And Scott is right, is that nature pours the vacuum and he's looking at this as an opportunity. But the problem is this is the epitome of what's wrong with politics. You go on the Senate floor, you're grandstanding to the ten people watching C-Span, with all respect to C-Span, all night long, like there are major elections tomorrow. You have Wisconsin, you have two Florida elections. Go on the campaign trail, get involved, get into the communities, like grassroots organized.
That's what the Democrat Party used to be so good at. Now it's become the party of the elites and no longer of the people.
LEONARD: I think that's frankly absurd. And I also think that there's probably a fair amount of grassroots organizing happening both in Florida and Wisconsin. I think that the crisis that Senator Booker is referring to probably has something to do with the fact that we have the world's richest man offering a million dollars to people who sign a petition, who say that they want to see activist judges removed from the court.
I think the crisis that Senator Booker is talking about is a president who, take him however seriously you want to, says that he would entertain the idea and has explored the possibility of a third term. I think the crisis that we're talking about is just a violation up and down the government of both laws and norms that we have all frankly taken for granted.
PHILLIP: So, Booker is not the only person talking about a crisis. I mean, you brought up Wisconsin. Here's Elon Musk in Wisconsin basically saying that this election could mean the end of western civilization?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: Whichever party controls the House, you know, it, to a significant degree, controls the country, which then steers the course of western civilization. So, it's like -- I feel like this is one of those things that may not seem that it's going to affect the entire destiny of humanity, but I think it will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And that seems a little hyperbolic to me.
JENNINGS: Well, I don't agree, but I do think he was addressing --
PHILLIP: You don't agree with Musk or --
JENNINGS: No, I don't agree that it's hyperbolic. I think the future of western civilization is very much in the balance right now, and I think it's one of the reasons the American people --
PHILLIP: Because of the Wisconsin State Supreme Court race?
JENNINGS: I think all elections right now are vital. And he was appealing to, and he knows the issues with the Republicans right now, we've gathered all these people into the party who are low propensity voters. They vote in presidential, they vote when Trump's on the ballot. Sometimes they vote when Trump's on the ballot and leave everything else blank. And he's trying to rally them to understand that all elections have consequences, whether you're in Florida or Wisconsin or you're voting for president of the United States. I think that message is a vital message and it's one of the reasons I think Trump won.
PHILLIP: I don't understand it though. I want to understand it though. What is the end of western civilization?
[22:10:00]
Explain that.
JENNINGS: I mean, it is -- the future of western civilization all over this world is in the balance right now. When you look at what's going on in Europe, they're throwing political opposition in jail. Free speech is under assault everywhere you turn. I mean, everything that we have built in this country, the tenets of western civilization, the fundamental values that the country has been built on, Republicans and conservatives believe are under assault. The November election was the beginning of the pushback on that assault, but it's not over.
PHILLIP: But you mentioned free speech, which we already know that people are being deported on the basis of not being able to have certain types of speech that this administration doesn't like. I mean, those are things that are happening right now in this country. You're talking about Europe, but that's happening here.
JENNINGS: Yes. Well, I would remind you that over the course of the last several years, the left in this country has undertaken a massive effort to suppress the speech of conservatives. And to this day, this day, the message from the left is if you don't say what we like, we will engage in violent acts against you --
PHILLIP: Okay. I'll let you in, Dan, in a second, but, look, let's just concede, I'll concede. Maybe the left went overboard on speech, but you also have an administration literally searching code words and canceling grants based on words that are being used, that are trying to stop news organizations from covering the president because they don't want to use certain words that this administration prefers.
So, you have to be kind of fair about when speech is being punished on both sides, not just when it offends your political affiliation. But, Daniel --
KOH: Look, I think that's precisely right. The reality is if we as United States want to perceive ourselves to be the beacon of what western civilization should be, I think there's a lot of reason to be very afraid of what we're seeing right now, when we talked about the deportations, we talk about the lack of the respect of co-equal branches of government. People feel this, that it scares them. And when they see things like, the whole Signal gate last week, and no one has faced a single consequence, you want to talk about people checking out.
People have checked out because they say this is a president who doesn't hinder any consequences on his people when they make a mistake. This is a Secretary of Defense who is not treating sensitive information of American soldiers at risk with the proper care that it deserves, and no one is facing consequences. That's when people check out and realize that their democracy may not be what they thought it.
LEONARD: I don't know how Scott's going to respond to this, so I'll let you go ahead and respond and then I'll respond to your whataboutism.
JENNINGS: You held a high ranking position with Joe Biden, did you not?
KOH: Yes. You did. You did With George W. Bush.
JENNINGS: Did you recall a single person in your White House or in your Democratic Party asking for the resignation of Lloyd Austin after Afghanistan, after the drone strike, vaporize those kids, or after he went AWOL, yes or no?
KOH: Secretary Austin never compromised American lives within --
HAYEK: That's a no.
JENNINGS: 13 American lives? They were more than compromised. They were ended.
LEONARD: Scott, as I said, you've been very vocal about sort of your whataboutism vis-a-vis.
JENNINGS: It's not, whataboutism.
LEONARD: No, it is, because I agree. Because, look, I grew up in military bases and I remember going to the Department of Defense schools and going to the P.X. and seeing all the people around and thinking, these are the people who will go to war on someone else's order and they will be risking their lives. Let's say for a minute that the issue is not resignations. Let's talk about investigations. Has the White House said that there's going to be an inspector general investigation of the situation vis-a-vis Signal gate? There hasn't, but often was definitely investigated by the inspector general. They ultimately found that he behaved somewhat improperly, if it wasn't a necessary like punishment for it. But there was an investigation. Even Senator Lankford is calling for that. I don't see you calling for it.
JENNINGS: You missed it. I called for it on the first night. I have no trouble with an investigation. I think questions should be asked.
LEONARD: Well, we'll start there and we'll find out what happened and if there's a need for it.
JENNINGS: I think they ought to set rules of the road moving forward so that everybody knows what they're supposed to do, because obviously there's confusion.
KOH: But this is what I'm getting at. Who does the investigation when everybody is owned by the president?
LEONARD: They have said the case is closed, there will not be an investigation. That's what we're talking about here. It's a lack of accountability or even attempt at accountability. And as long as that's the case, yes, we have reason to believe that our men and women in combat, this may happen again, and there may be a consequence that none of us want to imagine.
PHILLIP: All right, we've got to leave it there for that conversation.
Up next for us, though, President Trump says he is not joking about a third term, even though it is unconstitutional. It's something that America needs to start taking seriously, probably.
Plus, Americans are bracing for Trump's so-called liberation day when he starts a global trade war, this as the president says, he couldn't care less if prices on cars go up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Twice is nice, but is three a crowd? According to the Constitution, 100 percent it is. President Trump may have initially floated this third term thing as a troll to own the libs, but now it seems that there's a serious effort to get it done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No, people are asking me to run and there's a whole story about running for a third term. I don't know. I never looked into it. They do say there's a way you can do it, but I don't know about that. But I have not looked into it. I want to do a fantastic job. We have four years, just about almost close to four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That was tonight after saying over the weekend that he's not joking about serving three terms. While MAGA is hung up on this fantasy, it is worth reminding everyone that it is unconstitutional. It's not really a question. It is actually unconstitutional. But the wild thing is that Trump keeps talking about it and the folks in the White House and on Capitol Hill's keep saying that it's a joke.
[22:20:06]
I just want to play what Steve Bannon, who is somebody who is out there both boosting Trump and also, to a degree, has Trump's ear. This is what he has to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP CHIEF STRATEGIST: I am a firm believer that President Trump will run and win again in 2028.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know he's term limited. How do you think he gets another term?
BANNON: We're working on it. I think we'll have a couple of alternatives, let's say that. We'll see what the definition of term limit is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: All right. So, you know, I'm of the school of thought that when they say it and then they say it over and over again, you cannot just say, oh, well it doesn't matter.
Karen Finney is with us now. You know, Karen, how do you take this?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We got to take him at his work. You know, this is a very typical language pattern for Donald Trump. Well, I don't know, but they're saying some, they out there, I mean, they're calling on me, they're asking on me to do this. So, like, gee, golly, I guess I'm going to have to find a way to do it. It's -- you know, come on, this is the way the lies start.
And this is also an individual who I think as you -- I heard a little bit of what you all how you were discussing last segment about the Signal situation, this is a man who has no regard for the U.S. Constitution, the rule of law, our democracy. He is a convicted felon. This is someone who has thwarted the law. He has already -- I mean, one of the reasons we have multiple lawsuits already in courts, right? He is trying to challenge birthright citizenship. He's trying to challenge his own authority, the authority of the presidency. He's trying to demean the role of the other two co-equal branches of government.
The Constitution is very clear about this. So, you can't say we're for the Constitution if you're then going to say, except when it's not convenient for us.
HAYEK: Well, I'll say he was elected four times, but he would only be, he would be elected four times, but only serving third since the 2021 was stolen.
PHILLIP: Wait, excuse me.
HAYEK: However --
LEONARD: Seriously, we're still doing that?
PHILLIP: No.
HAYEK: However.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Give me a second here. We are not doing that, okay? An answer to your question, we're not doing it. Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. You don't have to actually say the words out of your mouth, but I'm going to say them because --
HAYEK: Well, if the election were held today, and this is why the left is so worked up about it, it's because Donald Trump would win again. If there were an election held today, we had this approval that we just talked about is so high he would win again.
But I think there's other options for other Trump's too. In 2028, it could be a J.D. Vance, Don Jr. Down the road, 2044, it could be a Barron Trump. I think the options are limitless here.
KOH: Look, let's take a step back and realize what he's actually doing. This is why the president has consistently demeaned the courts every chance he gets and trying to undermine judges. Because he knows that's the last line of defense for him, ultimately. He owns the White House. He certainly owns the Congress and the legislature. And even his own parties, some of his judges that he is appointed have come out against him from time to time.
That's why he's doing this whole misinformation campaign with them. Because he knows that if he can win the courts, it's checkmate and he can do whatever he wants. That's why it's so important that the courts stand up. That's also why it's so important that we're seeing Senator Booker stand up because that's why we're seeing so many Americans saying that we need more fight from our Democrats because we need a resistance against this.
PHILLIP: It is a little bit like the birthright citizenship thing, which is settled and is not constitutional to take away. But I do think there's a theory among people close to Trump that a lot of things can just be tested if the composition of the courts, to Dan's point, are in their favor.
JENNINGS: Yes, I don't see the birthright citizenship challenge the same way I see the third term thing, because I think one is arguable, there are arguments to be made about it. The other one is not arguable. The --
PHILLIP: So, does he keep saying it?
(CROSSTALKS)
LEONARD: I'd like to know which one you think is arguable and which one you think is not.
JENNINGS: Birthright citizenship is arguable, but third term is not arguable.
LEONARD: But you agree third term, not arguable, not happening?
JENNINGS: And what I heard him say what -- when I was listening to him tonight, I heard him downplaying it, truthfully, and I hear what Steve Bannon is saying, and I hear all these people with all their theories. I hear up a president --
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) to say, I'm not going to run for a third term because unconstitutional?
JENNINGS: I hear president say, I'm going to have a successful term. You know, I'm going to -- you know, I haven't really looked into it. This weekend, he said, you know, this is a long way away. I hear a guy downplaying it.
PHILLIP: He also said he's not joking.
KOH: If Trump announced he was running for a third term, would you support that?
JENNINGS: No, it would not be constitutional for someone to serve a third term.
LEONARD: Well, he also --
JENNINGS: And it also wouldn't be constitutional for someone to run for vice president under the 12th Amendment because you can't run for that if you're ineligible to serve as --
LEONARD: I'm very glad that you mentioned that because he cited that specifically as a viable option of running as J.D. Vance's vice president --
[22:25:01]
JENNINGS: I know because you can't.
LEONARD: Well, but, again, there are a lot of things that I think we all would've agreed at this table you can't do that he's done. This is not a man who has any intention of leaving the White House. We saw it in 2020, '21. This is not a man who intends to leave willingly.
And I think, you know, it's like Karen said, this is a pattern of speech. Oh, a lot of people come to me, tears in their eyes, asking me to serve the third term.
JENNINGS: He's not going to need it. He's going to have a successful term, but we're not going to need a third term.
LEONARD: I'll give you another example of a theoretical way that he could do it. He could be appointed speaker of the House, right? That's still an option. President and vice president, step aside, succession. Now we have a constitutional crisis. And what do the judges do here?
PHILLIP: Last word to you.
LEONARD: Where is the outcry from the Republican Party to say, yes, this is unconstitutional? Period. I'm glad you're saying it. I'd love to hear --
JENNINGS: I cry about what? Some hypothetical just chatter boxing? Yes, from the president of the United States.
FINNEY: But this is the other part of the pattern. You know, the Republican Party, they're not going to say anything until they have to.
But just real quickly, I'm not sure what numbers you all were talking about are looking at, but you know, the A.P., 40 percent of Americans approve of his job on the economy. 58 percent disapprove. In Pupil, seven in ten Americans are saying that they're following closely. Why? 66 percent say because they're concerned about what the administration is doing. Only 33 percent said because they like what the administration is doing.
So if we want to just keep --
JENNINGS: Karen, question, who's more popular right now? Donald Trump or congressional Democrats?
FINNEY: It doesn't matter. Donald Trump happens to be president, doesn't he?
JENNINGS: It doesn't. He's sitting at 50-50. You're sitting at 20-80.
FINNEY: He's at 48-50 actually. And, increasingly, people -- oh, okay, you want to call the A.P. and tell them their poll is wrong?
JENNINGS: You want to call CBS News?
FINNEY: Sure.
PHILLIP: Okay. We're not going to go to the mat over --
FINNEY: But more importantly, his numbers are going -- his approval ratings are going down.
JENNINGS: Where are yours made?
PHILLIP: All right. We got to leave it there.
Coming up next, hear how Trump is planning to celebrate what he's calling liberation day. That's one that is freaking out Americans and markets alike.
Plus, Joe Rogan sounds the alarm on the administration's deportations and the lack of due process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, HOST, THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE: This is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific and that's -- again, that's bad for the cause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:32:01]
PHILLIP: Donald Trump is planning a party, but it's clear more Americans just don't want to attend. Just 36 hours from now, he'll mark what he's calling Liberation Day, when his massive tariff war is supposed to begin. And while the event may be high on pomp and circumstance, it appears to be low on details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Are you going to move out with the universal tariff for different individual tariff rates on a whole variety of different --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, you're going to see in two days, which is maybe, tomorrow night or probably Wednesday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Whatever it is, it's doing a number on the markets and consumer confidence, but apparently, not Trump's. "The Wall Street Journal" reported that in a call earlier this month, Trump warned U.S. automakers not to raise prices in response to his tariffs, something he denies. Trump told NBC he, quote, "couldn't care less if they raise prices because people are going to start buying American made cars."
Now, if once wasn't enough, he said again, "I couldn't care less. I hope they raise their prices." He's speaking there about foreign cars. Now, asked again if he was concerned about price hikes one more time, he said, "No, I couldn't care less because if the prices on foreign cars go up, they're going to buy American cars."
That's a pretty bold thing for a president to say that he doesn't care if the prices are going to go up. But I'm also confused about why this is about to happen in maybe 48 hours, and no one, including people who work in this administration, seems to know or believe is settled what the contours of the tariff hikes are going to be.
JENNINGS: Well, couple of things. One, I don't think they want to get ahead of the President and let him make his own announcement. Number two, on the cars, I mean, look. People can try to talk them out of this all they want. He firmly believes in this.
He thinks this tariff idea is going to not just help the auto industry, but all manufacturing -- on shoring of jobs, drive investment back into the American economy and ultimately be good for the working class of this country that can get better jobs and make more money than they've ever made.
He believes it. He's been talking about it for decades. Talking him out of it here at the eleventh hour before his Liberation Day, I just -- I don't think anybody's going to be able to do it. He won the election. He's never hit the ball on this. He's going to implement his program, and we're going to see if it's going to work.
KOH: I think if this is a president who really wanted to empower workers, he wouldn't have just stripped 700,000 people of their collective bargaining rights.
If this was a president who really wanted to empower workers, he wouldn't have cut $500,000,000 of labor protections and labor investigations across the world. If this was a president who really cared about empowering workers, he wouldn't have tried to change a rule last time he was president, t
That would have made it easier for managers to take from the tip pools of their servers. This is all a farce, okay? This is to make it look like he's doing things for workers. From behind the scenes, he's doing what he's always done, which is disempowering workers.
HAYEK: If you want to a talk about workers, let's look at the Biden administration and the regulation that would have mandated E.V. -- vehicles for all Americans and would have eliminated 144,000 jobs in Michigan and Ohio.
[22:35:03]
And, I mean, Joe Biden was really the number one exporter of American jobs.
KOH: If you want to --
HAYEK: And President Trump is trying to bring those jobs back here. Hold on. Let me finish for a second. You know, one of the things -- my speculation is we have a $36 trillion deficit and this is going to bring money back to America and furthermore, we have 22 companies that have now -- at least 22 companies invest and invest in jobs in the United States. There's 44,000 additional jobs and over $876 billion of investments back into the United States. That's what this is about.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Forty-four thousand -- (CROSSTALK)
KOH: I just want to --
(CROSSTALK)
KOH: --about that.
PHILLIP: So, 44,000 jobs which is, it's jobs, but it's not as many jobs as you would need in order to offset what this could mean for the American public. I mean, you're not just talking about tariffs here and there, he's talking about tariffs basically for everyone.
But, but Karen, I also, you know, on the worker front, I mean, here's what the United Auto Workers led by Shawn Fain had to say in response to this. "With these tariffs, thousands of good paying blue collar auto jobs could be brought back to working class communities across the United States within a matter of months simply by adding additional shifts or lines in a number of underutilized auto plants."
I mean, I know that that's the union position, but it also, seems to, under -- undersell the impact of massive tax increases on both the consumers --
FINNEY: Sure.
PHILLIP: -- and on the companies that are going to take a hit.
FINNEY: Yeah, and here's the fun thing. We can actually look at what happened in the first administration, and I went to "PolitiFact" to see kind of what -- what did we learn from the first Trump administration about tariffs. In one instance, it says, actually, comparing gains and losses, the nation and its consumers lost 7.2 billion on balance during the initial wave of tariffs.
So, he but this is the big lie of Donald Trump's 2020 -- of this cycle. Basically, they're trying to say these tariffs are going to -- it's going to be a little bit of pain in the beginning, then it's going to be okay, then it's going to bring back jobs, and then it's going to give us so much money. That's how we're going to pay for the tax breaks for the wealthy while everybody else gets screwed.
It's not true. The math isn't mathing. And the question becomes, even with the auto workers, you know -- so, let's say you wanted to bring those jobs back immediately. Well, the reality of how American cars are made, not all of the components are made in the United States.
So, if you're adding a tariff onto certain components that are needed to assemble a car, whether it's in Michigan or Tennessee or another part of the country, you then -- you may have people sitting around waiting for jobs that because of supply chain issues, you'd -- and tariff issues, you actually don't have the components you need to -- to actually put those cars together.
PHILLIP: To even make so-called America --
FINNEY: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
LEONARD: I mean, look, I -- Art Laffer, an economist who President Trump gave the 2019 Presidential Medal of Freedom to, said that this will, on average, increase the cost of car in America by $2500 and has the risk of setting off an inflationary cycle that could affect everything all the way down the line.
Even his own commerce secretary said that this wasn't about workers. It wasn't about, the American manufacturing. It was about getting foreign countries to, quote, "show Donald Trump some respect". Like, again, I -- I don't think we can we can sort of forecast all we want about the economy.
But the -- the reality is these are taxes on foreign goods that at American kitchen tables, whether you're buying a new car or you need to get your car fixed and you need a new part and the cost of that's going to go up, the cost of labor's going to go up, and your insurance rates might go up because all those other costs have gone up, too.
PHILLIP: And, also, you -- look.
LEONARD: This will affect American family's pocketbooks.
PHILLIP: Trump says he doesn't care about the consequences, but the polls are pretty clear. CBS YouGov now -- just 23 percent say they are better off based on Trump's financial policies. That -- that's down from 42 percent in January. Do you think Donald Trump's policies have improved the economy?
Only 28 percent say that now. Fifty-one percent say that they've worsened economic conditions. Maybe Trump doesn't care because he's term-limited. He can't run again. But members of Congress are running, and they are going to, I mean, tomorrow, we will find out. And this is the stuff that could hurt them.
JENNINGS: Yeah, I-- I think, couple things. Number one, all presidents will rise and fall, and their parties will rise and fall based on how people feel about the economy at the time of the election. Democrats just found this out in November.
I do find it curious, though. Democrats are really upset about tariffs today. Not so upset about it when Joe Biden left Donald Trump's tariffs in place when he took office.
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: That's actually not true. No.
JENNINGS: I don't -- I don't remember -- I don't remember a ton of outrage about it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Scott, look. I'll just say, Scott, hang on a second. JENNINGS: There seems to be a newfound anger about it.
PHILLIP: I'll just say, Scott, that I mean, tariffs on China have bipartisan support because I think a lot of people agree China doesn't play fair in the in the -- in the marketplace. But what Trump is doing is levying across the board tariffs because as you pointed out, he likes them, not because they make economic --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- he likes them.
JENNINGS: So, you agree that tariffs are okay under certain circumstances.
[22:40:00]
UNKNOWN: But, yes.
PHILLIP: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: I think we all do.
(CROSSTALK)
KOH: Let me explain -- all right.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, so, I think you can make -
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We're moving in the right direction here.
UNKNOWN: No, no.
PHILLIP: Hold on, a second, Scott. We can, we can -- I think a lot of people can agree on the left and the right that under certain circumstances, you can make cases for tariffs. The question at hand, though, is not, can you make a case for tariffs here? It's, is Donald Trump going to put tariffs on the entire globe? And the answer seems to be yes. What's the justification for that?
JENNINGS: Well, he thinks we're being, A, unfairly treated by most people in the world. B, he firmly believes that if allowed to work, this economic policy will drive investment, jobs, manufacturing --
PHILLIP: And will raise --
JENNINGS: -- if the -- the components that you talk about being made --
PHILLIP: And will raise -- JENNINGS: -- eventually will be made or if it's -- that's what he believes. And that's what we ran on.
PHILLIP: And will raise prices on Americans during a time when they're struggling with the --
KOH: A, it's very clear the markets don't believe him judging from the reflection of the markets. B, this is a president who's supposed to be the person who's supposed to insert certainty in the markets. He's certainly not doing that. Three, you talk about how this is supposed to be done and what the Biden administration did. Let me tell you how it's supposed to be done.
You're supposed to work directly with the the Secretary of Commerce and the Commerce Department to come up with thoughtful tariff rates. The -- the disturbingly round numbers we are seeing coming out of this administration show that he's not putting that kind of care into what's actually going to empower workers and what's actually going to make us competitive.
It's also lacking any kind of sense of labor protections that is going to truly empower workers. And finally, if you're going to come after the Biden administration on jobs, President Biden created 50 million jobs --
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Government jobs.
KOH: More -- no, no. And private sector jobs more than many presidents in modern history.
JENNINGS: Okay.
KOH: With the IRA, with the infrastructure bill, including -- including the Brent Spence Bridge in Kentucky, which Mitch McConnell signed off on and was at the groundbreaking.
PHILLIP: We got to a leave it there. Coming up next -- coming up -- I do remember that bridge opening party that Mitch McConnell was at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Coming up -- coming up next, as the White House defends deporting people without due process, whether it's gang members or even college students, even Joe Rogan is speaking out about the dangerous precedent that it sets. We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(22:46:41]
PHILLIP: Is due process in America falling by the wayside? One of President Trump's most high profile supporters is now publicly breaking with him on his deportations, and he's offering this warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER AND UFC COMMENTATOR: So, there's still people coming through.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
ROGAN: And there's probably still people coming through that are criminals.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
ROGAN: You know, but the thing is, like, you got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, sued up and deported and sent to, like, El Salvador prisons. Like, that kind of shit (ph).
UNKNOWN: Measured twice, cut once.
ROGAN: Yeah. This is the like, this is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific and that's again, that's bad for the cause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: When asked about due process, here's the message one Republican congresswoman had for her concerned voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Is the expectation that we're supposed to take the word of the administration that these people need to be shipped out of the country without any -- any opportunity to defend themselves?
REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): There is no due process if you come here illegally because you violated the law. Period. You violated the law, you are not entitled to due process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, you know, I'm surprised to hear her say that, Ashley, because, honestly, that's basic stuff. In fact, if you violate the law, that's exactly when due process kicks in because you get to have a -- a hearing of some kind to determine whether or not the case against you is true. I -- I don't understand why that's even something a congressperson would say.
HAYEK: Well, just to the overall premise, President Trump was elected over by the American people to secure the border in human trafficking and defeat the drug -- drug cartels. Hands down. That is what the American people are expecting from him.
Just last night, there were 17 additional illegal aliens that were deported, six of them who were --they had raped children. Like, these are people who need to go. The administration has made it very clear that they prioritize the federal laws.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I agree and I'm going to interrupt because I -- I want to make sure we're staying on the premise here. It's not about actually those people who you named the 17 of them had final orders of deportation. They had actually had their cases adjudicated. They were, using basic immigration deporting tools to deport them because they did have their day in court. We're talking about the people who didn't.
HAYEK: But the -- the bottom line is that, first of all, they're doing it very quickly. They're -- they're deporting illegal alien criminals. The one thing that I will say is that there's a lot of information that we don't know that Department of Homeland Security does have. They're doing their job. They have the intelligence. It may not be shared publicly, but some of it may not be able to be shared publicly --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It's not being shared with the courts either. Go ahead.
LEONARD: But they're not doing that. The person that that Joe Rogan was talking about, and I actually think he might have been conflating multiple cases, is a story of a gay make-up artist named Andre, who had some crown tattoos with the name mom on them.
HAYEK: It sold so much, we didn't know about that.
LEONARD: The gay you're -- are you suggesting that the gay makeup artist is a member of Tren de Aragua because of the accusation?
HAYEK: I am saying --
LEONARD: That was the stated claim. And by the way, there are many more of them. There are three -- the -- the reason why I think Joe Rogan is a little bit confused, he mentioned a gay barber. It's actually a gay makeup artist.
He might have also been a barber. I found in a five- minute Google search three separate barbers, who were sort of rounded up because of their tattoos that were apparently Tren de Aragua tattoos. One of them is the Nike Jumpman logo. Another one -- multiple crowns.
[22:50:00]
I mean, you know, LeBron has a crown tattoo. Is he a member of Tren de Aragua? I mean this is ridiculous.
PHILLIP: Well, let me -- look, the Karoline Leavitt was asked about this because there was a document that the administration submitted in court that basically said you if you have a tattoo, you have, clothing that might be associated with this gang, you're in the gang. She was asked about it. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW FEINBERG, "INDEPENDENT" JOURNALIST: You can get classified by simply having certain symbols in your tattoos and wearing certain street wear brands. That alone is enough to get someone classified as TDA and sent to El Salvador.
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESSS SECRETARY: That's not true, actually, Andrew.
FEINBERG: According to this document, it is.
LEAVITT: Shame on you and shame on the mainstream media for trying to cover for these individuals.
FEINBERG: I'm not trying to cover for anyone else.
LEAVITT: This is a vicious gang, Andrew. And you are questioning the credibility of these agents who are putting their life on the line.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That is what the document said.
FINNEY: Can we go back just to the premise of what Joe Rogan was talking about? Because he's right. It's horrific to believe that in a constitutional democracy like the United States Of America where it's supposed to be guaranteed that people may -- we are having to rely on information based on an administration that does not have a good relationship with the truth.
They're not even willing to provide the -- the judges who are being -- who are part of these cases with the documents to prove that some of these individuals actually either did have due process or had been found to be criminal gang members.
And let's be very clear. I don't think anybody at this table wants criminals in this country who are murdering children, who are hurting people. I think that's like, we can probably go baseline there.
But what I think we have to ask ourselves is, if you believe in a constitutional democracy, do you not want your president to follow the law? And by the way, in our own CNN poll, a vast majority of Americans said they're concerned and want to see Donald Trump follow the law.
PHILLIP: So, Scott, isn't this exactly what we denounce other countries for doing? Not giving our -- our own citizens when they get wrongfully detained around the world, our own citizens, the due process that they deserve?
JENNINGS: Well, I think that multiple things could be true. Number one, I -- I delineate between American citizens and everyone else. If you're a U.S. citizen, I put you in a different category.
PHILLIP: On due process, that's not a distinction.
JENNINGS: Then if you -- then if you come here and if you've come here and broken our laws and committed violent acts or murdered and raped and whatever, I-- I put you in a category.
PHILLIP: When it comes to law and due process, that is not a distinction. JENNINGS: Well --
PHILLIP: If you are here --
JENNINGS: Well, if you'd like to argue that Tren de Aragua should have the same rights and that -- that you get as an American citizen, go ahead.
PHILLIP: Scott, Scott, I'm -- here's the argument.
UNKNOWN: Change the constitution.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The argument is --
JENNINGS: So, you're saying that a terrorist can walk across the border and become effectively a U.S. citizen?
LEONARD: That's not what I'm saying.
PHILLIP: Scott, Scott, hello. Hold on, hold, Scott. Look at me, okay?
UNKNOWN: Yeah, who's being the host here?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Welcome back.
PHILLIP: You and I are talking, okay? What I'm saying to you is that the law does not make a distinction between U.S. citizens and everybody else when it comes to being accused of crimes. DO -- are -- are you saying that that should not be in place? That if you happen to not be a citizen, you get to be thrown into a jail with no process at all?
JENNINGS: I'm saying that these people are effectively terrorists. They walked across our borders illegally.
PHILLIP: Okay.
JENNINGS: They are violent. I don't really want them here.
PHILLIP: But doesn't the government have to prove that they are who they say they are?
UNKNOWN: Correct, all we're saying.
JENNINGS: I think --
PHILIIP: That's all. I mean, you can say it --
JENNINGS: Eventually --
PHILLIP: It's not a concession that you like Tren de Aragua. It's just a question of the basics of civics in this country. JENNINGS: I think eventually, the government will have to show all of
its cards on everybody that they have detained, deported, or done anything to in this arena. But there is no doubt -- there is no doubt that the Trump administration is rounding up effectively terrorists who came across here illegally, committed horrific acts, and do not need to be in this country.
PHILLIP: They -- they are doing that, perhaps, but they're also doing a lot of other things, too, and that's why the courts are asking questions about it. We do have to leave it there because coming up next, our panel is going to give us their night caps. They're going to tell us what everyday item is overdue for an upgrade inspired by the New York Yankees and their new special bats.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:45]
PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, torpedo bat edition. The Yankees are setting a franchise home run record with a new type of baseball bat, ones with different shapes and that aren't against the rules, apparently. So, each of you now have a few seconds to tell us what else is overdue for an upgrade. Franklin, you're first.
LEONARD: I need a universal phone charging cable. Like, this is ridiculous. It's 18 different cables. Like, win the tyranny, of -- of the charger cable. Give me one that I can use for everything, and then I'm good.
HAYEK: I have five kids. I need a -- automatic laundry basket sorter. No more missing socks. The clothes just go to all the kids properly.
PHILLIP: All right.
FINNEY: It's pouring rain in the year of our Lord 2025. Why can we not have an umbrella that does not totally disappoint you and blow open when you need it most? It feels like if people can go to space and back, we should have an umbrella that does not do that.
KOH: I got a four and a two-year-old. My wife will tell you I still can't collapse a stroller. Then this is just one button that works.
HAYEK: Yes.
PHILLIP: You got the wrong stroller, my friend.
JENNINGS: By the way, I just want to a point out, they make those bets in Louisville, Kentucky at Louisville Sluggers, so congrats down there. Look. Mine is this, an everyday item that needs an upgrade, Leslie Stahl at "60 Minutes". After I saw Leslie ask hostage Keith Siegel this weekend, when he said he'd been starved in captivity.
[23:00:04]
So, well, maybe they just didn't have enough food to give you, and he had to set her straight. She's been there since 1991. Well, I'm sorry, Leslie. It's time for an upgrade. That was a terrible question. Horrible moment since, the coverage of October 7th started.
PHILLIP: Well, we will leave it on that note. Everyone, thank you very much for watching. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media platforms -- X, Instagram and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
