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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Federal Court Blocks Trump's Liberation Day Tariffs; Trump Rejects Wall Street Claim That He's A Tariff Flip-Flopper; Trump Commutes Sentence Of Notorious Ex-Gang Leader; San Francisco Pauses A Controversial New Grading System For Its Public High Schools After Community Backlash; Paramount Allegedly Offers $15 Million Settlement To Trump. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 28, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, Marty McFly and Donald Trump share something in common. They get really worked up when being called chicken.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Don't ever say what you said. That's a nasty question.
PHILLIP: Who's mocking Trump behind his back?
Plus, MAGA flipped over James Comey's seashells.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you believe Comey should be in jail?
TULSI GABBARD, OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I do.
PHILLIP: But now, MAGA's king may pardon the domestic terrorists who plotted to kidnap a governor.
Also, Pete Buttigieg channels his inner usher with a slew of confessions.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Those are the things I'd be whispering into my 2020 ear.
PHILLIP: And when Fs are Cs, Bs are As and homeworks for the dogs, the debate over equity grading.
Live at the table, Kevin O'Leary, Tiffany Cross, Shermichael Singleton, Jennifer Welch and Kmele Foster.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about. Breaking news tonight, a tariff takedown. A federal court just ruled that President Trump does not have the authority to impose his sweeping tariffs. That means the bulk of the levies are now at a standstill, including the ones he announced on so-called liberation day last month. It also prevents Trump from enforcing the tariffs he placed earlier this year against China, Mexico, and Canada that were designed, according to him, to combat fentanyl coming into the United States.
Now, Trump implemented these tariffs without Congress invoking the International Emergency Powers Act, which gives the president the authority to act in response to an unusual or extraordinary threat. But the three-judge panel at the U.S. Court of International Trade found that's illegal.
Stock futures are surging tonight on the heels of that ruling. The Trump administration is also now vowing to appeal. This is a really big deal for the trade moment that we are in, and I'm honestly surprised that it has taken this long to get to this court.
A couple things you should know, this court has the jurisdiction over this issue, which is international trade. The second thing is that they are simply saying the Constitution is super clear. Congress was responsible for this. Not only is Congress responsible for this, but Congress went back to the law multiple times to say, you can't do whatever you want in this sphere. This is our responsibility. So, this is a huge blow, Kevin.
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: Yes, except it's not over. I mean, a lot of what Trump is doing is chaotic in the sense that courts block him and then he goes back and appeals it. What he's trying to do is send out a signal. We need reciprocal tariffs, equivalent of a VAT tax, consumer tax that other countries have.
This is going to obviously be applauded by markets that are saying this is a stay of action and so it's going to be a longer negotiation, but I don't think the game's over at all. He's going to appeal it. I think half the country believes that this is a good strategy.
Trump has never let the courts decide his narrative. In this case, I don't know how long the delay is. He's going to keep going.
PHILLIP: Narrative, but then there's also the law. So, I don't know. I mean, I don't think narrative wins out when the courts say it's illegal.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You know, I think the question for me becomes, if the administration was close to finalizing a deal with India, I was hoping that would come in the next week or two. We appear to see some potential movement with China as well. It sort of puts those things in limbo.
I certainly understand with the court ruled, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what Congress been able to sort of dictate these sort of tariff negotiations, but I do think Trump's overall argument about reciprocal tariffs is pretty spot on.
With that said, I wonder if this does go back to Congress. Republicans control the House and Senate. Will they then, in turn, give the president the leeway to try to finalize some of these deals?
[22:05:04]
I'd like to see that.
PHILLIP: They could do it right now.
SINGLETON: No, they should.
KMELE FOSTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, TANGLE: That seems highly unlikely. They should have done that from the start. This is yet another L for the Trump administration. You have both houses of Congress. You knew all along this wasn't an emergency. In fact, he's kind of sort of admitted already that this wasn't an emergency. It was a ploy to try and negotiate a better trade deal for Americans to try to bring workers back into factories. But apparently robots are going to be doing the work. This is a huge L, Kevin. It seems appropriate to acknowledge it at this point.
I think I remember you suggesting at some point in a long Twitter stream that there was -- this was a ploy and that there was going to be some short-term pain, but we have some immediate benefits at some point. And this doesn't really seem to be --
O'LEARY: It doesn't solve the narrative in India charging 110 percent tariffs on car parts made in America, and we charge three.
FOSTER: But we're not fixing the problem now.
O'LEARY: Well, I think that's why at the end of the day, this game isn't over.
I think a reciprocal tariff or reduction of all tariffs, which are the two outcomes, it's still on the table. I don't think Trump's going to stop just because of this ruling. He's not going to wake up tomorrow morning and say, oh, forget the tariffs.
PHILLIP: Wait, what do you think he's going to do? What do you think he going to -- what do you think he's going to do? Do you think he's just going to ignore the courts and just --
O'LEARY: Yes, he still has a majority of the mandate. Let's not forget that. If you're telling him through this ruling he's got to go to Congress, he'll go to Congress, where he does have a majority mandate.
PHILLIP: Right.
O'LEARY: But at least the next 18 months --
PHILLIP: I'm not sure that he has a majority to levy global tariffs on the entire world, least of all ones that are over 100 percent in some cases. Otherwise, I think he would have done it by now. That's the part of the problem.
TIFFANY CROSS, AUTHOR, SAY IT LOUDER: It shows -- yes, it shows how unserious this is. They've been not on the same accord since they announced this. At first, like you said, it was because of fentanyl, which, by the way, 86 percent of cases brought from fentanyl, crossing the border are from U.S. citizens. Then it was, you know, a punishment to Canada and China.
And even Peter Navarro and the former member of his administration, they could not get on the same page. Right now, revenue is not supposed to outweigh the cost of goods, and that's what's happening. And that price will pass on to the consumer. And people who say things like, oh, well it's short-term pain, are always the people who never have to suffer the short-term pain. For the people out there who are consumers, they are going to suffer from this.
And Walmart -- if I can just finish, Walmart may not suffer, but small businesses are. I think of people like Melissa Butler, who you are certainly familiar with, who runs The Lip Bar, she's going to be directly impacted by these tariffs, and that's going to impact workers and even some of the people who voted for him. This is yet another example of how grossly unserious it is, even when they had the plan that they were going to negotiate with 70 countries in 90 days, assuming all these countries had the same purchasing power is an embarrassment on the global stage.
PHILLIP: It was interesting that earlier today, Donald Trump was asked about how markets have been reacting to his tariff moves and they've been calling it the TACO Trade. Trump always chickens out because he starts with a really high number and then backs down, and here's how Trump responded to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Wall Street analysts have coined a new term called the TACO Trade. They're saying Trump always chickens out on your tariff threats, and that's why markets are higher this week. What's your response to that?
TRUMP: I kick out?
REPORTER: Chicken out.
TRUMP: Oh, and then I chicken out. I've never heard that.
We had a dead country. We had a country people didn't think it was going to survive, and you ask a nasty question like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER WELCH, PODCAST CO-HOST, I'VE HAD IT: I think he is just so disgraceful. I think that is so embarrassing that an American president demeans journalists like that and he does it all of the time with impunity and he damages the American brand. He damages our country. He damages the office.
And I don't know what his endgame is with that. I think he's just so empty. He has to beat everybody down around him. But that is unpresidential. That is so despicable that he speaks to journalists like that. SINGLETON: So look I think if you look at the markets for the past couple of months now, let's say the past 30, 45 days, for the most part, the market has shown resilience. You look at some of our biggest companies, tech companies, NVidia came out to today, they outperformed the street. I think we'll hear from Costco, I believe, Thursday. That will give us an indication whether or not consumers continue to spend at a pretty optimum level. You look at unemployment rates, those numbers continue to be low.
So, regardless of your views on tariffs for the most part, the overall strength of the economy and all of the indicators that we would measure appear to be pretty strong. And I think to give the president some room to have some better trade deals and negotiations with some of our major allies, I don't think, Abby, that's a bad thing at all, and I think most Americans would appreciate that.
PHILLIP: I think the point that the reporter is making by asking the question is that all those things that you mentioned, a large part of it is that Trump actually just backed down right from his initial threats when he started out -- when he starts off with China at 145 percent, he says, well, China's willing to talk to us now, so we're going to go down to 30 percent. There's no substantial deal with China. The E.U. starts at 50 percent, then he's like, oh, they're going to talk to us now, we're going to go down to 10 percent.
[22:10:03]
The markets then say, okay, great --
SINGLETON: But the E.U. signal that they want to have discussions with the U.S., that's a fact.
PHILLIP: They are signaling that they want to talk to Trump at some point, they have not given him anything. So, that's called backing down.
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: You guys are okay with China ripping off our I.P., stealing our products?
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: You're okay with that?
FOSTER: I think there are plenty of things that ought to be done with respect to China. I think that tariff regime that they have been imposed on the United States is decidedly unfair. We could talk about all of the other various criminal things that are going on there in terms of tariffs, but the actual issue here is that Trump had a particular gambit that he tried and it failed miserably.
And it's a mistake to focus narrowly on the stock market and its performance and whether or not it seems to be in an okay place. People lost their jobs. There were material consequences because of a severe disrupt -- I'm not sure what percentage -- (CROSSTALKS)
FOSTER: Well, here's the question. What percentage of job loss is fine and okay --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Guys, one at a time, one at a time.
O'LEARY: There's no job lost in America. What are you talking about?
FOSTER: Can I ask a question? Let me ask a question? You're claiming that there have been absolutely no jobs lost because of the disruptions created by the tariff --
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: You got to read the numbers.
FOSTER: No, I'm asking a question. It's not saying anything.
O'LEARY: We're almost full employment. We're almost full -- what are you talking about?
FOSTER: No. But that's an invasion.
WELCH: That's what he was handed. He's doing --
O'LEARY: The economy's on fire. What are you talking about?
WELCH: (INAUDIBLE) the American economy and nobody is taking this seriously.
O'LEARY: What is this job loss? The economy is on fire. The economy is doing okay.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Guys, one at a time, please.
WELCH: (INAUDIBLE) damage to the American brand. We are a laughing stock. We're a laughing stock in Europe, a laughing stock in Asia. If you're inside the Trump bubble and you're on Twitter with all the bros, it hits hard. It's really getting real --
O'LEARY: That's not what the numbers say. The number one destination for invested capital on Earth is still over 50 percent in America, tonight, right now. So, I don't know what you're talking about we're a laughing stock.
PHILLIP: So, Kevin --
O'LEARY: the money who pours in trillions of dollars comes to America. Why? Best place to invest on Earth, largest consumer economy in the world.
PHILLIP: I think Kevin, you're making a great -- one second. You're making a great argument for why --
O'LEARY: Because I'm right.
PHILLIP: Well, hold on, for why the economy, even as you just explained it, is doing just fine. And Trump is trying to make the argument that the United States is on the verge of collapse and that's why tariffs are necessary. I know what that's, but my point is that Trump is arguing that these tariffs are necessary because the economic destruction that is caused by the current state of affairs in the country warrants them. You are just making the argument that the economy is on fire, we're at full employment, everything is going well, and you're right.
FDOSTER: And what exactly has the Trump administration done?
PHILLIP: And that is what is undermine Trump's argument from the beginning. But one of the things when we talk about what's happening with tariffs going forward is really where the economists and the Fed, what they're looking at. The international label or labor organizations said the global impacts of tariffs, if they go into effect, which they really haven't because it keeps backing down, is 7 million jobs lost globally, okay? So, that's that.
The Fed just today said the job market is likely to weaken substantially on Trump's tariffs, again, if they go into effect. But the reason we're sitting here talking about no effects is because Trump keeps backing down. That's why the TACO Trade is happening.
SINGLETON: Well, if maybe the Fed chair also said two months ago that we would probably be in a recession right now and all the numbers showcase, once again, the economy is still strong and resilient. I think you can use tariffs up to a point as an economic strategy to negotiate. Many economists would agree with that up into a point. And as long as you don't cross over a certain threshold, I wouldn't want to give the president, Abby, as I stated, a little bit of room with our biggest partners and even adversaries, like China, to have a reset. That makes perfect sense. What I understand, it's basic economics.
PHILLIP: What's so interesting about this moment that we're in is that we started off the day in one place and ended the day with the courts basically saying actually that little bit of room doesn't belong to the president. It belongs to the United States Congress, because in this country, Congress is responsible for levying taxes on the American people. So, we'll see how that one goes forward in the courts.
Coming up next, more breaking news, as Donald Trump says he wants to get murderers and gangsters and drug dealers out of the country, but he just commuted the sentence of one of them.
Plus, after being outraged by James Comey's beach picture, the president is now considering pardoning a right wing militia who plotted to kidnap and hog tie Gretchen Whitner.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:15:00]
PHILLIP: A thought exercise for you. How would Donald Trump, Fox and MAGA react if Joe Biden commuted the sentence of notorious gang leader, someone serving life for murder and beatings and drug deals? Well, Trump did that tonight.
Here's another one for you. How would Donald Trump, Fox, MAGA react if Joe Biden conspired to pardon a left wing militia convicted of kidnapping a Republican governor? Well, Trump is considering that tonight, but in reverse. It involves a plot against Gretchen Whitmer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Will you pardon the people who are accused of conspiring to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer?
TRUMP: I'm going to look at it. I will take a look at it. It's been brought to my attention. I did watch the trial.
[22:20:00]
It looked to me like somewhat of a railroad job.
A lot of people are asking me that question from both sides actually. A lot of people think they got railroaded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You might recall that members of a right wing militia were convicted of the kidnapping plot, which included weapons of mass destruction. The timing is interesting though, since for the last two weeks, Trump and his allies have reacted this way to James Comey posting a picture of 86 47 in seashells in the sand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABBARD: Whatever your politics, we cannot allow people to get by without being held accountable for this kind of public call to assassinate the president of the United States. I'm very concerned for his life, and James Comey, in my view, should be held accountable and put behind bars for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: quite a difference, I guess, two weeks makes. But I think the principle here for Donald Trump, it seems when it comes to pardons is, if you're on my side of the ideological ledger, you'll get a pardon. If you're not, you won't. But when it comes to threats, they just don't seem to have a problem with -- I mean, this was beyond threats. I mean, this was a plan. They were outside of her house. Like this was not just people talking.
FOSTER: Well, it's fair to throw the hypocrisy flag. It is certainly the case that people on the right would be very animated if the same thing were happening in the other direction. But it's also appropriate to look at the individual cases and the case with Whitmer and these particular gentlemen is actually a little bit dubious. You have the feds who had to try it twice in order to actually score the conviction. There's a lot about the conviction that looks a lot like these post 9/11 convictions where you've got informants, who are the actual people who, in some instances, are advocating most strenuously for people to take kind of insane action.
It's worthwhile to take a look at this. There has certainly been a number of cases, especially related to January 6th, where you had overprosecution of particular people. So, I don't know that the White House is out of bounds here. I think the challenge for the president is that, in addition to these situations where it might be justified to offer a pardon, the president is also doing all manner of very strange stuff for people who are politically aligned with him and have criminal investigations and prosecutions had to disappear.
O'LEARY: When is it justified to offer a pardon to a criminal that's been convicted? I don't care what president you are. When you offer pardon and you give it, it's unequivocal. Biden got fried like a chicken in the microwave by pardoning his son. Trump's getting fried right now. These are criminals. Either you just remove the ability for an executive to pardon criminals or you deal with this in every administration issues.
CROSS: Except the executive is a criminal himself. I mean, he was convicted of (INAUDIBLE), so it be. But that is a serious thing.
O'LEARY: Maybe he should pardon himself right now.
CROSS: Well, I don't think it matters, quite frankly. And these people were -- it was not just -- you're saying it's overprosecution, but the fact of the matter --
FOSTER: I'm saying not all criminal convictions are the same.
CROSS: Fair enough.
FOSTER: And here, the feds literally failed the first time.
CROSS: But the fact of the matter is most people are not going to dig into the media --
PHILLIP: Yes. But they didn't -- and that's just to be clear, people were sentenced to long sentences for this. And it wasn't -- again I said this at the beginning, but it bears repeating. They weren't just talking about this. They went to her summer home and surveilled the home. They had a plan that would have involved injuring -- blowing up a bridge, injuring, or perhaps killing people.
O'LEARY: Agreed.
PHILLIP: This was a very serious thing. Like I get informants are tricky, but it is a normal part of law enforcement to utilize them so that they can catch people who have the intent to commit crimes, and that is not a new thing.
FOSTER: But there's also --
WELCH: And MAGA has a major right wing militia problem. I'm from Oklahoma City. I was there when Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building. And what's so insane about what has happened since then is we haven't reconciled this problem with, you know, right wing militias, and they are all in Trump's big tent party now and he's pardoned them. And it's a very dangerous movement in the American public.
And we know -- you saw a daycare get blown up and my state continually votes for a party that embraces right wing militia and pardoning all of those January 6th criminals is just despicable. I mean, we're either a country of the rule of law or we're not. And people die from this stuff and these people are extreme. And they are welcome and excused by the president of the United States, and that is unacceptable.
CROSS: All law enforcement agencies identified that right wing white supremacists are one of the top threats to national security here in this country. And regardless of like -- again, I think people are not going to get into the minutiae of the case. It's the message that it sends.
FOSTER: I do, but the specific cases --
CROSS: It's the message that is okay if you're applauding -- I understand specifics.
FOSTER: But the specific cases do matter. And I think talking to these --
(CROSSTALKS)
CROSS: But most of Americans going to read the headline, not the story, and they're going to see if I can curry favor with this president, then that matters.
PHILLIP: Can I add one more specific case? I mean, there were a slew of pardons, Larry Hoover, one of the most notorious gangsters in the country and certainly in Illinois history.
[22:25:03]
Having his sentence commuted, he's still facing a prison time on state charges that -- a very, very long sentence, so he's not going anywhere for the time being. But why is Trump doing that other than that people like Kanye West and others have called --
SINGLETON: I mean, his attorneys have attempted to get a commutation or pardon, I believe, since Obama's second term. I mean, so this isn't a new thing. The guy's 74 years old. His health is declining from what I have read. Yes, he did some pretty horrible things. But should we keep the guy in prison for the rest of his life? He did a crime, he served the time.
I think at a minimum -- PHILLIP: Allegedly, he did many crimes. And the time that he was sentenced to was several life sentences. I'm not arguing --
SINGLETON: Yes, that's a big --
PHILLIP: I'm not arguing -- I just want people to understand the facts here because I think it's important. There are a lot of people in this country, as you know, who are facing very lengthy prison sentences for far, far less. And some of them, Trump has actually pardoned, the First Step Act and now. But I just -- I'm really trying to understand why does Larry Hoover end up at the top of this list?
SINGLETON: Well, again, Abby, his attorneys have been trying to get a commutation for years now. It wasn't just Hoover, it was also the rapper, I believe NBA Youngboy got a pardon today as well.
Look, you look at the criminal justice system, a lot of individuals who get oversentenced are typically black men. That's a fact. And I have no problem, and I'm just going to be honest about this, with the president of the United States that happens to be a Republican taking a look at some of these cases and said, I'm going to pardon or commute some of these sentences. I actually applaud that.
PHILLIP: Let me play also --
SINGLETON: Biden didn't do it. Obama didn't do it.
PHILLIP: Let me play Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: No, but I'm talking about Hoover in particular.
PHILLIP: Okay. Let me play Donald Trump from just 1.5 ago or so. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We are going to be asking everyone who sells drugs gets caught selling drugs to receive the death penalty for their heinous acts because it's the only way.
But if we don't get tough on the drug dealers, we're wasting our time. Just remember that, we're wasting our time. And that toughness includes the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'LEARY: The only way to resolve --
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: (INAUDIBLE) executive to pardon anybody. If you are a criminal and you go to jail, it's because you broke the law. If you don't like the fact that people should --
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: That you can decide one criminal is better than another in a pardon, or that their crime is not as deep as another, it's remove the ability for an executive to pardon anybody, and we don't have to talk about this anymore. Just don't break the law. It's that simple.
CROSS: But it is not that simple.
O'LEARY: Oh, really? I think it's very simple.
CROSS: Absolutely. I'm sure you do in your position in life. But let me just tell you something, that there are a lot of people --
O'LEARY: So, it's okay to break the law?
CROSS: If I can finish my point and you can use these, I'm going to -- yes. Well, if you listen, you might find out. It is not as simple. It is not as simple as if you don't want to go to jail, don't break the law. There are millions of black people in this country who have been ensnared by a very punishing criminal justice system where they have been wrongfully convicted or unfairly sentenced in this country.
O'LEARY: All of them, every one of them?
CROSS: Obviously not every one of them. But the same way that you can support a president who is convicted of crimes himself, there have certainly been people who have been sentenced to crimes that they did not commit or they were unfairly sentenced. That is why we have the First Step Act.
But the reason we have the First Step Act is because there needs to be a second step. The First Step Act mainly focuses on federal policy. But there are a lot of people, over 1.1 million black men remain in jail today.
So, this president is not, he's not vested in stuff like crime equity. Don't tell me when I'm okay with this because --
(CROSSTALKS)
CROSS: But why don't you (INAUDIBLE) and try to understand and have some empathy criminal justice system that have ensnared a lot of people under it.
PHILLIP: Let me ask you a question about the Larry Hoover of it all. I mean, do you think Trump is right to take the stuff that he did today, or -- I mean, I think some of this -- I mean, you mentioned NBA Youngboy, he's also in the past pardon, Kodak Black, they're trying to appeal to black men.
CROSS: Of course.
PHILLIP: Okay. So, is this about that or is it about their --
CROSS: Their intentions are impure. But I will be honest with you. I'm fine with pardons. I kind of agree with you, Shermichael. Like if he's 75 years old, yes, because it's impossible.
When you think about the 230 plus people who were shipped offshore to a torture camp, when you think about this president who breaks the law routinely, convicted of 34 felonies right here in New York, when you think about the number of people we've just decided in this country that these laws and these rules are pixie dust, the Constitution, who cares what, who cares about the emoluments clause? Give me this jet. Who cares about the 14th Amendment?
So, at this point, we have to ask what is the law? So, why do laws apply to some people and not the other?
[22:30:00]
So, if it's time for Larry Hoover to say, yes, fine, then pardon Larry Hoover, but also let's look at all the other cases instead of caging people like animals who have been in jail for decades in prisons for decades for a -- a dime bag of marijuana, when I see white boys walking down my street in a gentrified neighborhood smoking it freely and openly, you have to wonder, yes, there is something wrong with our criminal justice system.
Respectfully, it is not as simple as, well, if you don't want to go to jail, don't break the law. That is spoken from a place of privilege. And if you look at facts and history and data and statistics in this country, you will see that there are so many people --
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: -- there are so many people who are in prison.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We do have to leave it there. We do have to leave it there. Very interesting discussion with this group. Coming up next, the city considers an equity grading plan for schools that turns F's into C's, B's into A's, and does away with homework and attendance. Well, will it work, or is it woke? We'll debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(22:35:34)
PHILLIP: Tonight, a Bay Area backtracks. San Francisco is pausing a controversial new grading system for its public high schools after community backlash. Its new grading for equity initiative was getting accused of being woke and for lowering the bar for students. Under the new system, students would be allowed to take tests multiple times.
Lateness, effort and class participation wouldn't be factored into the final grade, neither would homework. The students would be graded based on final exams, which again, they can just simply retake. All that said, students would be able to pass with scores as low as 41 percent.
Congressman Ro Khanna, a Democrat who represents nearby California -- nearby California district, criticized the system saying his dad, quote, "-- came to America for a chance to work hard and pursue excellence. Giving aids for 80 percent and no homework is not equity. It betrays the American dream and every parent who wants more for their kids."
Couple of layers to this. I mean, I -- just in general, I think this rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but in the context of politics, the reason Ro Khanna is speaking up about this is because I think he sees this as one of the things that regular Americans look at and say, why are we doing this?
UNKNOWN: Right.
CROSS: Well, I -- I don't know how you define regular Americans, but I think, for the millions of educators out there, they can tell you that grading equity actually does help with making sure that students understand the curriculum they're being taught. This is pedagogy lending itself to making sure comprehension matters.
I'll be honest in my -- when I was reading about this, I spent some time at the National Education Association, so it's a policy that I'm familiar with. And when I was reading about this, I passed math. I was horrible at math, and I used to volunteer to clean the boards and cut the erasers and everything just to get extra credit to pass math. But if you ask me the square root of something, I might -- it might not work. I did not understand the curriculum, but I knew if I worked hard and appealed then maybe I would pass.
When I look at these kids post COVID, most kids are not on reading level. They're not understanding what they're learning. And so, if you can make sure instead of giving a point system or a grade, and you can make sure, hey, I want to make sure that you can intellectually process the information you're receiving, repeat it back to me and understand it, I'm okay for that. All the attack -- A.I. has made it easy for kids to keep --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: This policy proves --
CROSS: --and all the things that people that the Republicans are, attack, we face culture wars --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But isn't -- isn't that --
O'LEARY: California stays at the top of the idiot index.
(LAUGHTER)
O'LEARY: Either you can read and do math or you can't.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: It's such a stupid idea, and they continue to bring these things forward. No wonder it's a -- it's a wasteland.
WELCH: Let me tell you --
O'LEARY: California is a wasteland.
WELCH: Oklahoma --
O'LEARY: Somebody should put up their hand -- I'm here right now saying, you guys are idiots. Don't do that.
WELCH: The Ten Commandments --
CROSS: Yeah.
WELCH: -- in the school, they're teaching, conspiracy theories --
CROSS: In Oklahoma.
WELCH: -- that in Oklahoma, in my state, we're ranked 49th and 50th in education. We have a MAGA super majority. This policy hurts people so much.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: So, Oklahoma and San Francisco have bad schools in common.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: And in San Francisco -- San Francisco --
WELCH: No, I don't -- I don't think that that is the answer either. I just think that we need to do something about education. This generation, I have my youngest son just graduated from high school last week, and they are -- they were raised by cell phones, and we need to -- they need to learn to advocate for themselves, they need to have autonomy. And I don't -- I don't --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Isn't that an argument, though? I'll let you in a second, but --
SINGLETON: Yeah, sure. Sorry, go ahead.
PHILLIP: Look, I'm listening to Tiffany saying, okay, when I was in school, I did extra credit so I could pass back. Isn't that an argument for teaching kids not just the content, which you'll never do a square root in your adult life. So, you know, whatever. I mean, not, yeah. Okay.
WELCH: Me, over here, I'm not doing square root.
(CROSSTALK)
WELCH: - in one day, Abby.
PHILLIP: But -- but you're not going to do a square root, but you do need to learn how to complete your assignments on time.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You do need to learn how to raise your hand and -- and answer a question. You do need to learn those things that they're not expecting kids to do, apparently, according to the system. I'm not understanding that.
SINGLETON: I-- I understand everything Tiffany just said. Hard work, you didn't get it, you kept putting the work, putting that stuff forward and the teacher helped you. That matters as you get older, you get a job and maybe you're not quite as efficient on a particular area. Your manager will say, okay, you know what? This is a good person. They're working hard. Let's help them figure this out.
[22:40:00]
That's a different thing, I would say, Tiffany, than saying we're going to completely change the grading structure. And I really worry about the implications on poor kids, particularly black kids, specifically black boys who are falling way behind black women in terms of academic attainment.
PHILLIP: In public schools --
SINGLETON: In public schools which are --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: -- support this.
PHILLIP: So, you know, I -- I looked this up. There's a pretty tony private school in New York where they don't have grades. Okay? They -- it's very similar to this. They don't have grades because they evaluate kids differently. But I went to public school. I know the difference between a public school and a private school. And the difference is mainly, who is going to make sure that when you get a zero or on that first test, that you are actually on the second try learning the material and that's --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Right. And you're retaining information.
O'LEARY: Yeah.
CROSS: But does the grade system now do that though?
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: I don't know that the grading system does. And I want to acknowledge a lot of the points you made. I went and looked at the program as well, and there are dimensions of it that I think could actually be credible. I think the challenge, particularly in San Francisco, is this is the same school system that was eradicating higher level mathematics. SINGLETON: Yeah.
FOSTER: Because they just imagined that, well, we need more equity in the schools and a lot of our kids will never go on to do Algebra two or Calculus, so we'll just stop teaching it. The soft bigotry of low expectations.
CROSS: Yeah.
FOSTER: I think that was a George W. Bush phrase, it's never been soft.
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: I agree with that. But then when you think about things like A.I. coming into our education, or A-1 as our idiotic education secretary would call it, it makes it easier for kids to cheat, you know, your colleague Jake Tapper, did a story on that earlier today. And so, I do wonder then how are we enforcing -- how are we ensuring that kids are learning --
FOSTER: Right.
CROSS: What the -- the information they're consuming, not just committing it to memory, but intellectualizing what there could be --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: That's a real question. I think the challenge is that so many school systems have actually used DEI and equity as an opportunity to essentially dodge the responsibility for doing the really hard work of remediation which is what's necessary.
PHILLIP: Jennifer, can I ask you? I mean, on the politics of this. I mean, this is the type of thing that I think some Democrats say we need to move away from, because it -- it's the way it's hitting the ears of a lot of parents is you all are so committed to equity - "equity" in quotation marks that you want to just eliminate standards altogether? Do you think, politically, it's a mistake? I mean, this was halted for a reason in part.
WELCH: I do. I do think it's a mistake because I live in the backlash of this. And the backlash of this when you have a MAGA super majority, we had a Democratic governor in 2011. We were ranked 19th in the country in education. Since then, we've had MAGA super majorities. We're ranked 49th or 50th depending on where you look at it. And it gets crazier and crazier and crazier.
And I think there's a backlash to these policies and it hurts people. And then you have this breeding grounds for Christian nationalism, which is happening in Oklahoma. Ten Commandments, school superintendent buying Trump Bibles, teaching conspiracy theories. This is happening, and this is not helpful for children.
PHILLIP: I mean, what she's saying is true.
CROSS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: I mean, they're -- they are trying to bring, you know, Trump literally into the schools as if that is something that kids need to learn.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Even -- even The Ten Commandments, I mean, look, you can argue about biblical teaching or whatever. But in the schools, I'm not sure that that is lending itself to the kind of rigorous academic --
O'LEARY: Why -- in my whole early career in it, in math and reading scores, the learning company, 110,000 school buildings in this country, parents don't care about politics. They would like to see their children advance to have the opportunity if they wish to go to college. The only way they get there is to pass through the gates of math and reading scores. They still remain the same in this country.
It's not about politics. It's about teaching. We have very low productivity in this country in the amount of money we spend in teaching mandates. Every time I bring this up, it's a poo-poo storm that I get into. But because we have teachers' unions, we don't filter out the weak ones, the horrible teachers, the ones that don't care about advancing children. There are thousands of them.
UNKNOWN: That's so terrible.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: One at a time, please.
SINGLETON: If you would think that teachers unions would actually be against this in San Francisco, why would any teachers support this? This isn't equity for poor or black kids.
WELCH: What we're talking about is --
SINGLETON: So, we're behind?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Very last word for you and then we got to go.
SINGLETON: It doesn't make any sense.
WELCH: What we're talking about the extreme on both sides. But parents in Oklahoma do care about politics, and a lot of them are for this now because they have politicized and turned people into politics.
O'LEARY: Rather than --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: -- their child?
WELCH: Yes. They have. O'LEARY: They'd rather --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: --on politics. They're passing their child on?
WELCH: Yes. They do. They are wild --
O'LEARY: I'm having a hard time with that one.
WELCH: Approaching teachers. This is happening in red states all over the place. They are not interested in an objective education for their children. They want a Christian nationalist education. This is dangerous.
[22:45:00]
O'LEARY: I'm having a hard time with this.
WELCH: It's not democracy. I know.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it there, guys. Coming up next for us, breaking news. President Trump has reportedly rejected a settlement offer from Paramount over a "60 Minutes" lawsuit. Hear what he wants instead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:53]
PHILLIP: Breaking news tonight. "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting that Paramount has offered the President $15 million to settle his lawsuit against CBS News over what he claims is a deceptively edited "60 Minutes" interview with Kamala Harris.
However, sources familiar with the negotiations say Trump's team wants more. They are asking for $25 million and pushing for an apology from CBS News. No surprises there. Trump just wants more money.
SINGLETON: I said that during the break. They should have offered $30 million whether you agree with this or not. CBS and the heads there, they have a fiduciary responsibility to get that company sold for the $8 billion that their stakeholders are expecting by any means necessary. Now, that means they have to up by 10 more million dollars in there, 15 more million bucks -- they have to do so. They're going to get $8 billion.
PHILLIP: Isn't that -- isn't that extortion?
SINGLETON: The company's -- the company's only worth $7 billion.
FOSTER: You're being shaken -- you're being shaken down by President of the --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: You need to sell the company.
FOSTER: When the President of the United States shows down and he tries to institute a shakedown, you have to settle as quickly as possible.
SINGLETON: But they want to sell.
FOSTER: They will say money so you can get your sky dead steel. Well, I want to focus on political dimensions. So, let's focus on political dimensions.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Mainstream. Sell the CBS.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I think we should go back to the source of the problem.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Hold on. Let me let him finish. Kevin, let me let him finish.
FOSTER: This is gross and unseen. We were supposed to have a free press in this country --
UNKNOWN: Right.
FOSTER: And there is something dreadfully wrong with the President of the United States is filing nuisance lawsuits --
O'LEARY: What do you mean nuisance lawsuits?
FOSTER: -- and trying to take tens of millions of dollars of private companies.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Wait a second. Wait a second.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Absolutely --
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Everyone knows it.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Word salad edit. Do you remember the word salad edit?
FOSTER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK) CROSS: That happens all -- even as --
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: That happens.
FOSTER: That much better than this actual --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: Wait. Wait. Wait. If this claim had no merit, we wouldn't be talking about whether --
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: It has no merits. It has no merits.
(CROSSTALK)
WELCH: I have a question. How do you guys constantly defend the biggest whining, tidy baby --
(LAUGHTER)
O'LEARY: Excuse me. Did all the executives of CBS lose their jobs on "60 Minutes"? Yes or no. Yes. Was it a salad edit? Yes.
WELCH: No.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: What covenant are you talking about? What covenant are you talking about?
O'LEARY: You know, we've had this --
PHILLIP: Yeah. I know. What are you talking about?
O'LEARY: And you said it doesn't matter. Everybody cares.
PHILLIP: Yeah. Yeah. You know what?
O'LEARY: Words salad -- to make her sound better --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Let me let me remind you.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: I was there.
PHILLIP: Since we -- you're bringing up many conversations or word salads, when is Joe Biden going to sue Fox News over editing Donald Trump's comments in an interview to make it sound better than it was, then everybody should just sue. UNKNOWN: Right.
O'LEARY: He could sue.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay? Everybody -- everybody should sue because Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: They all got whacked.
UNKNOWN: Who lost their jobs?
PHILLIP: Donald Trump has been a beneficiary of the very thing you're talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: -- word salad. If you can't speak, don't edit and try to make it better.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: Kevin, but you know what? The fact --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSTER: -- CBS resigning because --
O'LEARY: They got whacked.
CROSS: No. The executive producer of "60 Minutes" resigned because Shari Redstone wants --
O'LEARY: Oh, yeah?
CROSS: Yes. Let me tell you.
O'LEARY: That's called getting whacked.
CROSS: Well, well, well, try being quiet and let me explain that the executive producer of "60 Minutes" resigned because Shari Redstone wanted the sale to go through. They asked "60 Minutes", which is the gold standard in journalism, they asked them what Trump stories are you planning on doing? The executive producer said, I -- we cannot -- we can no longer operate as an independent news operation, I'm stepping aside.
This week, Scott Pelley spoke beautifully at Wake Forest University about how important it is for news and -- for news agencies to be able to operate independently. We have seen time and again across every network, bend the knee to this administration.
PHILLIP: We got to -- guys, we got to go.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We'll continue this on the break. Everyone, thank you very much for being here. Up next, the trend of Donald Trump promising things in two weeks. We've got the tape. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:32]
PHILLIP: Despite generations of intelligence, decades of a track record, and years of provocation, here is President Trump's timeline for when he'll be fully able to read Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Do you still believe that Putin actually wants to end the war?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I can't tell you that, but I'll let you know in about two weeks - within two weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, if that timeline sounds familiar because before Taylor Swift made a fortnight famous, Donald Trump had the era on lockdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Do you trust President Putin?
TRUMP: We'll let you know in about two weeks. I'd rather tell you in about two weeks from now. You can ask a question in two weeks. Let's say over the next couple of weeks, wouldn't you say? I think so. Over the next two, three weeks, we'll be setting the number. I will make that decision. I would say over the next two weeks.
At some point in the next two weeks or three weeks, I'm going to be setting the deal. It should have been done by Biden, just like the young gentleman that I brought home yesterday after two weeks. And I think I'll go to a couple of these towns over the next two weeks. You'll see for yourself.
And I'll be making a big decision on the Paris Accord over the next two weeks. I think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks. We're going to be announcing something, I would say, over the next two or three weeks that will be phenomenal.
[23:00:00]
We've got the plan largely completed, and we'll be filing over the next two or three weeks, maybe sooner. We're going to be having a news conference in about two weeks to let everybody know how well we're doing. We're signing a health care plan within two weeks. A full and complete health care plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: By the way, we are still waiting on that health care plan. Thank you for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X, Instagram and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
