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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Flamethrower Attack Marks Rising Anti-Semitic Violence In U.S; More Law Enforcement In Trump Era Wearing Masks; Staffer Of Congressman Detained Briefly By Federal Agents; Pride Month Is Here; New Conspiracy Theory About Biden Surfaces. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 02, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the rise of anti-Semitic violence in America takes another disturbing turn as Donald Trump blames his predecessor.
Plus, policing in secret, the growing trend of law enforcement masking up when cracking down.
Also, if big brands are supporting pride month, it's somewhere over, under and around the rainbow due to fear of the rights' ridicule.
And Donald Trump pushes a conspiracy that Joe Biden was executed in 2020 and replaced with a robot. So, why isn't anyone batting an eye about his acuity?
Live at the table. Chris Sununu, Congressman Ro Khanna, Maria Cardona, Shermichael Singleton and Bill Kristol.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about, a horrific act of anti-Semitism in America. Tonight, a man is charged with a federal hate crime and multiple counts of attempted murder after police say he used a flamethrower and Molotov cocktails to set people on fire at a Jewish event in Colorado. At least 12 people were hurt as they marched in support of hostages still in Gaza. Among them is a Holocaust survivor.
Now, officials say that the suspect is an Egyptian national who is in the country illegally, and according to an affidavit, he told investigators that he, quote, wanted to kill Zionist people and that he wished they were all dead.
This weekend's assault is just the latest in an alarming rise of anti- Semitic incidents across the United States. According to the Anti- Defamation League, there were more than 9,000 last year. In 2014, there were fewer than a thousand. That is a tenfold increase over the past ten years.
There's no question that if we were seeing what we've seen over the last several months, Josh Shapiro's house being firebombed you have this incident, another in which two individuals who worked at the Jewish embassy were shot basically at point blank, this would be considered a five alarm fire of a problem that we have in this country.
Bill, I mean, do you think that there is a willingness to acknowledge at this point something is happening here and it needs to be stopped before it becomes a bigger issue?
BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: I think there's a willingness to acknowledge it. I don't know if there's a willingness to do or to try to do, it's not so easy, obviously, to try to do what you might do to really stop it. I mean, are you going to really put serious law enforcement, you know, people on this case? The Trump administration's busy deporting a 5-year-olds and 18-year-olds, and people who've lived here peacefully for 40 years. Maybe they should take some of those resources from DHS and the FBI and get them back to fighting domestic terrorism, which incidentally was a focus for the last few years. It may have had some success.
So, I hope we take it very seriously, yes, but I think it's important to take it seriously practically. You know, and we have to deal with the anti-Semitism, and that has been around for a long time. It's a very complicated thing to deal with as a sort of sociological or intellectual thing. But there's a lot law enforcement can do to make this less -- not to make it impossible, to make it less likely to happen.
PHILLIP: Let me just play what Senator John Fetterman, a Democrat from Pennsylvania, said about this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): This is just rampant across all the universities for all these places too. I mean, we really need to call it what it is now. And for me, politically, being very firmly side on the Israel, that kind of put parts of my party at odds for that. And I just want to continue and I think we need to deliver a legislative solution too and really address anti-Semitism now and just call it what it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Is he right, Congressman, that this is an outgrowth of what's happening on universities and on college campuses?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, first we have to acknowledge that there is a crisis of anti-Semitism. Jewish Americans are feeling unsafe. I agree with Bill that we need more law enforcement, but we also need people in my party clearly unequivocally condemning anti-Semitism, condemning things like globalize the intifada or river to the sea chants.
[22:05:01]
So, to the extent that there are irresponsible words out there and people aren't condemning them and saying that that's hate, then that is contributory.
But what we don't want to do, in my view, is to stifle speech. And so we need to condemn unequivocally hate speech but allow for the free expression at universities.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But, Abby, if I could jump in, the problem is not enough Democrats did that last year when these college protests were rampant. They made the excuse that it was all free speech. They made the excuse that people had the freedom to assemble under the First Amendment when many Americans and many Republicans, and even some Jewish Americans, Jewish students, were saying, this is going to lead to violence.
Well, the chickens have come home to roost. And while there are some Democrats, Congressman, who have indeed come out against anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist rhetoric, there are a whole lot who have not said a single word, in part, because they were so interested in wanting to make sure that they had those votes last year, which it didn't pan off --
KRISTOL: Oh, come on. Do you think any of these, the shooter in Boulder or the shooter in Washington were influenced by what Democratic members of Congress said?
SINGLETON: So, you think the college --
KRISTOL: Do you think they were influenced by Harvard --
SINGLETON: -- protests meant nothing, Bill?
KRISTOL: I think they were bad and I actually was somewhat involved in trying to get Harvard to be tough on them. They were bad for Harvard. They were bad for the general atmosphere. You think those people --
SINGLETON: There's many college campuses.
KRISTOL: That guy in Boulder was paying careful attention, was paying careful attention --
(CROSSTALKS)
KRISTOL: Social media does a lot with trouble -- social media --
SINGLETON: Would you not agree with that?
KRISTOL: What?
SINGLETON: Would you not agree? That we have a problem with anti- Zionist, anti-Semitic rhetoric on college campuses across the country?
KRISTOL: We have had a problem. It's much less today than it was a year and a half ago. I know many people who graduated from college in the last week or two, who had good experience. I know some Jewish students who were harassed occasionally and whose life was made uncomfortable, which should not happen. There were administrations that were too weak. I agree with that.
But I think that's a long way to go from some people taking guns and shooting people point blank.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I agree. Here's what we also have to acknowledge, and I agree that a lot of the college students and the colleges and the leaders did not deal with this, as they should have. But we also have to acknowledge, Abby, that the rise of anti-Semitism in the last decade can be correlated with the rise of Donald Trump and the kind of language that he uses, has used, gives a permission slip for all of this anti-Semitic language to be used, you know, in a way that we really hadn't seen before.
The president of the United States, when you have dinner with a neo- Nazi, when you pardon people who are the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, whose groups have an ideology that supports anti-Semitism, when you have anti-Semitic tropes that you traffic in and that you amplify on your own social media, where you have followers of millions of people, you cannot give a pass to the president of the United States with the kind of megaphone that he has and say, oh, he has absolutely nothing to do --
(CROSSTALKS)
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Yes, that is absolutely nuts. You guys are barely scratching the surface here. This isn't just about we need more Democrats to condemn what's happening. Let's get Democrats not joining in on it. How about AOC and Representative Omar don't join those college campuses? And this hasn't been going on for ten years. It's been going on for 18 months, and it starts on the college campuses. It empowers people to go beyond, and it has nothing to do with Donald Trump.
PHILLIP: A little bit more specific about what we're talking about here, because I definitely think, to the congressman's point, there are specific things that are being said on these campuses that are anti-Semitic, but the idea that AOC and, I mean, I don't know, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar are engaging in those activities, I'm not sure --
SUNUNU: They showed up on those campuses. They spoke at the campuses.
PHILLIP: You know what I mean?
SUNUNU: They were there on those campuses speaking out.
PHILLIP: But here's what I'm saying. But do you understand what I'm saying? If they show up on college campuses to protest, you know, the situation in Gaza is that -- are you saying automatically the same thing as uttering anti-Semitic words?
SUNUNU: Yes, they're anti-Semitic, no mistake about it. Their words are absolutely anti, and this is all based in anti-Semitism. PHILLIP: Right. What I'm saying is like do you have evidence that they actually engaged in anti-Semitic language. That is the issue.
SUNUNU: You know what? Supporting terrorists and --
SINGLETON: Some of her past statements?
SUNUNU: Are you saying -- I mean, do we have, go through the statements?
PHILLIP: I'm talking about on college campuses? You know, because I think that there is a difference between protesting --
SUNUNU: The history of Ilhan Omar is very clear. It is very --
PHILLIP: There's a history -- there's a difference between protesting and saying and doing anti-Semitic things. Would you not agree?
SINGLETON: Ilhan Omar's rhetoric, as it pertains to Jewish people in the state of Israel, is deplorable and disgusting. She shouldn't even be in Congress, in my opinion. And them showing up on those college campuses is a green light for the most vicious, disgusting, despicable rhetoric against Jewish students and against Jewish people. You can absolutely draw correlation. And to pretend that they were on the college campuses to sing Kumbaya is to just be naive.
KHANNA: You know, Abby, the governor and I were talking about President Bush Sr. before we got on the set and the tone he's set for this country.
[22:10:02]
You know what I think is sad? You know, the Democrats are saying, oh, it's Trump's fault, the anti-Semitism, the Republicans are saying it's the Democrat's fault. How about we just have leadership in this country that starts to bring this country together to condemn anti- Semitism, condemn the terrorism, stop blaming each other? And that's the type of leadership we had, whether it was Reagan, whether it was President Bush Sr., whether it was President Obama. We need to get vet (ph) with that.
SUNUNU: We need a cultural change. Under -- students and kids under the age of 30 years old, this is prevalent. This is commonplace. Even the kids that aren't showing up on those campuses think that there's a massive problem with Israel and we should all support Hamas and Gaza. These are the same people that say, well, it's about the women and children that are being killed. It did nothing about the 300,000 people that were murdered in Darfur or the 500,000 in Ethiopia.
CARDONA: And you think that has absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump's rhetoric.
SUNUNU: You're picking and choosing your self-righteousness.
CARDONA: You don't think it had anything to do with Donald Trump's anti-Semitic rhetoric that he actually puts out there? PHILLIP: But, Maria, the -- I do think we have to take the point that he's making, which is that in the last, you know, 18 months since October 7th, the rise in anti-Semitism is clear. Like that is not a Donald Trump thing. That is a clear outgrowth of this particular moment that we are in and Trump has his problems.
But I do think you have to acknowledge that there is something going on here, maybe a permission structure that needs to be addressed or should have been addressed 18 months ago.
CARDONA: Yes. I mentioned that when I acknowledged that a lot of what was going on the college campuses, the leaders of those college campuses, which frankly paid the price for it, did not handle it very well. But we have to go back. I feel like everyone is giving Donald Trump -- letting him off the hook for the kind of language that he permits.
When you have an administration like his, where you have officials within the administration that have a history of anti-Semitic actions and words and associations, you can't take that out of the equation in terms of where we are now. And this didn't just happened after October 7th.
SINGLETON: The problem that started 18 months ago --
(CROSSTALKS)
KRISTOL: No one was killed in Pittsburgh in 2018. Is that what you're saying?
(CROSSTALKS)
KRISTOL: What the motivations of that guy?
SINGLETON: When did we see an increase in --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Bill and Shermichael, give me one second.
KRISTOL: -- and you can be against Ilhan Omar. I'm happily against them both and I think that most Democrats are against them both and some Republicans are against them both.
PHILLIP: I do think it is a fair point that it would be actually a disservice to Jewish Americans to pretend as if anti-Semitism only began --
SINGLETON: That's not what I'm saying.
PHILLIP: -- 18 months ago.
SINGLETON: Let me be clear --
PHILLIP: And that the motivations of anti-Semitic attacks, when you really look back on the history of it, are many, and there are some on the left and some on the right.
SINGLETON: I'm not making history.
PHILLIP: I mean, but that is the point that Bill's making, right?
SINGLETON: I get what Bill was saying. I'm talking explicitly about college campus protests. You can trace it to about 18 months ago the increase. That's what I'm saying. The Democrats had every opportunity to address this. They did not. Even Kamala, the former vice president when she was running, had an opportunity to be direct on this issue. She meandered all over the place.
CARDONA: She was very direct.
SINGLETON: There are two counties in Pennsylvania that typically voted Democrat, pretty heavy Jewish counties, that voted for Trump as a result of Democrats' inability to come to their defense.
KHANNA: But instead of painting all 30-year-old, under 30-year-olds as anti-Semitic, would you say it's --
SINGLETON: Well, I'm barely --
KHANNA: No. It would be fair to say it. Would you say it's fair to say, look, condemn the river to the sea chants, condemn the anti- Semitic chance, but understand that there are a lot of people under 30 who believe in Palestinian self-determination of Palestinian state and that perspective needs to be part of the discourse? You may disagree with it, but I don't think every single young person who was out there is, by definition, anti-Semitic.
PHILLIP: We have to leave it there, Maria.
CARDONA: And importantly, having that we having that opinion does not make you anti-Semitic.
PHILLIP: Up next for us, why are more and more law enforcement agents wearing masks in the Trump era, and should they be? We'll debate that.
Plus, while everyone is talking about Joe Biden's mental acuity for the last month, the current president is pushing an unhinged conspiracy that Biden was actually executed in 2020.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, masks, baseball caps and sunglasses while federal law enforcement is masking up when they're cracking down, and it's raising questions over whether officers simply are protecting their identities or engaging in intimidation.
But last week, a U.S. congressman confronted ICE officers arresting asylum seekers at a New York courthouse. Heavily armed and masked agents conducted an immigration raid near a popular restaurant in San Diego. And on Friday masked agents of multiple agencies refused to identify themselves as bystanders, as they detained a gardener in Western Massachusetts. The acting ICE director says the agents are covering up to protect their families.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD LYONS, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: People are out there taking photos of the names, their faces, and posting them online with death threats to their family and themselves. So, I'm sorry if people are offended by them wearing masks, but I'm not going to let my officers and agents go out there and put their lives on the line and their family on the line because people don't like what immigration enforcement is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: One of the reasons that this has become an issue, we talked about the congressman who interacted with them, another congressman, Dan Goldman, said that immigration officers were engaging in intimidation, essentially.
[22:20:13]
Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): This is Gestapo-like behavior, where plain- clothes officers wearing masks are terrorizing immigrants who are doing the right thing by going to court, following up on their immigration proceedings and trying to come into this country lawfully, which is through asylum.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, in that case, it was at a courthouse where people were coming in for their regular check-ins, and what they're doing is they're dismissing the cases so that they can then arrest them on the outside. So, that's what he's talking about.
SUNUNU: Yes. Well, look again, if it's about protecting the police officers, then I have absolutely no problem with it. ICE is not a local law enforcement or even state police where community policing gets involved. It's a whole different aspect and a different role. We've seen it before. We were talking during the break. I've seen my law enforcement. If they're doing a drug bust, you know, big bust of crack houses and that sort of thing, it's not completely unwarranted. So, no --
PHILLIP: But these are people who are at the courthouse because they have a pending asylum claim.
SUNUNU: But if it's a policy, it's a policy. They're policy is you're going to want to wear a mask, they're going to wear a mask.
PHILLIP: And, usually, I guess in some of these cases, not necessarily criminals, you're not talking about gang bangers and drug bust. I mean, although perhaps there are some people that they're doing that with, but not in this particular.
SUNUNU: But, again, if the agency has a policy and for consistency's sake, they're going to wear the mask to protect themselves and their family's identity. because it's not just about what they're doing in that moment. It's that, well, there's an ICE agent, oh, and there's Fred down the road, and we know him and we know his family.
And there's obviously a lot of political angst against this and a lot of, you know, words like Gestapo tactics and these are terrorists and all that kind of stuff, which is complete nonsense. So, when you have that kind of inflammatory language and they want to protect themselves and their family, they have every right to do that.
KHANNA: The problem is that it has to be viewed in the broader context. You have Vice President Vance saying that the 14th Amendment of due process does not apply to immigrants in this country, even though the 14th Amendment applies to every person. He's saying people who are here as immigrants get less of a standard of due process. They shouldn't get the same rights.
In that context, when you have masked agents going, it's hard to believe that it's simply for their own protection. If there was for their own protection, I'd be sympathetic. But you have a systematic assault justified by the vice president to deprive people of fundamental due process.
SUNUNU: Bill Clinton signed a law in the 1990s that said illegal immigrants don't have the same due process. You can go --
KHANNA: The Constitution, the Constitution, 14th Amendment.
SUNUNU: And the law was signed by Bill Clinton, but no one complained about it for 20 years.
PHILLIP: I mean, the Supreme Court justices have said that it applies to immigrants, that due process rights --
SUNUNU: But it doesn't give you the exact same process of due process.
(CROSSTALKS)
CARDONA: You have to have an ability to defend yourself.
PHILLIP: I do think that, notably, this is different, right? Like we, in the past, ICE agents did not go around wearing masks. Like we --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: That's different, Abby.
PHILLIP: Right. I mean, but it's only -- I mean, it's only different because the Trump administration clearly has made this made a policy. Before, they were deporting people. They deported many, many people under the last two administrations, I mean, Trump, Biden and Obama, they did not wear masks as a course of -- a routine course. Why is this happening now? SINGLETON: I think the difference now is that you have a greater propensity and likelihood for individuals to state where these people live, put photos of them, their wives, their children on the internet, have people showing up in front of their houses. So, I do think it is a legitimate concern. As the director said, look, these guys are doing their jobs.
They're removing people who entered the country illegally. They have indeed broken the law. And we want to protect these individuals, our officers and their families. So, I'm not necessarily against it so long as they're arresting these individuals, they do, by law, have to reveal who they are, what agency they're with. And as far as I am aware, they are doing those things.
PHILLIP: Well, no. A lot of times, they're not. A lot of -- I've seen the videos. A lot of times, they're not.
The other thing is, I mean, Trump and his, you know, supporters and some aides, they post the names and pictures of judges and their families --
CARDONA: That's exactly what I was saying.
PHILLIP: -- all of that stuff, and nobody talks about protecting them. They're not even --
CARDONA: So, now are we going to have judges have masks on if that's actually the excuse that they're using for these ICE agents to have masks?
Look, I think the imagery is horrific from the standpoint of who the United States is and who we want to be from a global perspective. Who has sort of masked agents that come in and you have, you know, masked agents grabbing a mom -- breaking the window of a car, grabbing the mom in front of her screaming child, and not identifying themselves and not saying why she's being arrested? This is horrific.
[22:25:04]
This is not the America that we saw before Donald Trump became president.
And what these ICE agents are doing and, you know, this congresswoman -- this congressman called these ICE agents terrorists, they are instilling terror and fear and panic. They're instilling terror and fear and panic in the community.
SINGLETON: So, should they not do their job? Should they not do their job, Maria?
CARDONA: When they go -- there is a better way to do their job.
SINGLETON: So, they should tell their bosses, we're just not going to arrest and leave. We're not going to do our job. Sorry, I'm going home.
CARDONA: No, there's a better way to do the job. They should actually go after those violent criminals. The people --
SINGLETON: they should go after anyone who broke the law, which means if you enter our country illegally, that is --
CARDONA: The people they're going after are not violent criminals. When --
SINGLETON: They are criminals, Maria. But they are criminals.
CARDONA: Here's a problem, Shermichael, They are not when they are in court, going through the process of asking for asylum. They're actually following the law. And when they leave --
SINGLETON: And many of them have deportation orders, and you know that to be true. Many of them have.
CARDONA: And when they leave and get arrested and you give them the ability to say, you know what, I don't have to show up for my court order.
PHILLIP: Bill?
KRISTOL: I mean, it's pathetic to pretend that, oh, we're so concerned about their safety, they have to wear masks. I grew up in New York City, 40,000 cops, extremely dangerous circumstances, none of them wear masks except extremely rare occasions when they were going after some gang leader who might have relatives who go after them. You know, if they could -- ICE agents have functioned in this country. They didn't wear masks, they shouldn't wear masks. It's total nonsense. And it's for intimidation. It's not really for their protection. It's ridiculous.
PHILLIP: Can I play one more thing? I mean, this happened at Jerry Nadler's office. Similar circumstance, actually, frankly, for what happened in Goldman's office. But this time, the officers were trying to get into Nadler's office and then subsequently arrested one of his aides. Watch the scene that unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, she did not. That is not what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She pushed him back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on a second.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give me your contact information right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm going to (INAUDIBLE). That's what I'm going to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we talk to you? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're okay. You're okay. You're going to be okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a federal officer. We're here checking on something. We have the right to check it. I'm giving you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I see a warrant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not -- stop resisting. You're harboring rioters in the office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That's a pretty extraordinary scene, a congressman's office?
SUNUNU: What was that scene? I don't even know what she's being arrested --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Okay. Just give me one second. The congressman's office was in a building where there were protests happening outside and they came accusing these staffers are harboring a protester. One of the staffers asked for, do you have a warrant to come and search this office? And they said that we don't need a warrant and subsequently arrested one of them. So, I mean, both of you elected officials, I mean, I don't know if you can imagine something like that happening in your offices, but I've never seen anything quite like that, at least not recently.
SUNUNU: I've had protesters arrested in my office.
PHILLIP: No, no staffers, your staffers arrested.
SUNUNU: Well, if they're breaking the law, I would --
PHILLIP: What law?
(CROSSTALKS)
KRISTOL: There's a Fourth Amendment. Whether it's a Congressman's office or not, what if someone shows up at your door, I'm an ICE agent, I want to come in and make sure I heard you might have an immigrant? There is the Fourth Amendment holds for ICE on internal enforcement, just like it does for policemen.
SUNUNU: But it sounds like -- I wasn't there, but it sounds like obstruction.
KRISTOL: They were going to arrest somebody and they were -- (CROSSTALKS)
KRISTOL: But she wasn't absolutely arrested. They detained her momentarily. And then they did ultimately release her. She was not arrested.
KHANNA: Well, I'll tell you what's going on.
CARDONA: That's insane.
KHANNA: Donald Trump partly won the election because people wanted him to secure the border. I was just in rural Nebraska. What they did not want is the violation of the Constitution. They did not want 30-year- old aides in congressional offices in handcuffs. And it has gone too far. Even though he had the advantage on immigration because we made mistakes on the border, no one signed up for this. And his numbers are showing that.
PHILLIP: Yes.
KHANNA: His numbers are showing that around the country.
PHILLIP: All right. Guys, up next for us, more and more big companies are staying away from pride month out of fear of backlash from the right. Another special guest is going to be with us at the table. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
[COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Pride month is here, and some big brands have gone conspicuously quiet. What is normally a major marketing opportunity, companies are now avoiding public support of the LGBTQ community. Many executives cite the Trump administration and the fear of backlash from the right.
Joining me in our fifth seat at the table is Sarah Kate Ellis, the president and CEO of GLAAD. Sarah Kate, have you noticed this happening?
SARAH KATE ELLIS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, GLAAD: Very little pullback, actually. I've seen -- so we started tracking yesterday being June 1st. Today's June 2nd. We've seen over a hundred big brands publicly supporting the LGBTQ community.
I think also, what's important to see what the American people actually think of pride and corporates participating and we did -- recently released a report with Ipsos that showed that 71 percent of Americans think that corporations should participate in Pride and have the freedom to participate in Pride. So, I think also, they're not stupid. It's a growth segment. We're 10 percent of the population. We control $1.4 trillion of spending power.
[22:35:03]
So, Pride is profit. And I think corporates are in a crosshair with this administration. And being their --corporate freedoms are being taken away and reduced by pressure from this administration. But I don't think that most of them are going to --
PHILLIP: Yeah.
ELLIS: --are going to cower for that.
PHILLIP: It -- it's certainly not most of them, but some notable names here, taking a more muted approach. That's the language that, that in our reporting, Target, Kohl's, Macy's, Nordstrom, and Gap. But there's something interesting happening in the numbers. You -- you cited your Ipsos poll. Gallup had an interesting poll showing how this broke -- breaks down along partisanship in terms of support for same sex marriage.
Between 2022 and 2025, there's been a dramatic decline in Republican support for same sex marriage. It was 55 percent or 41 percent today. That's a little surprising to me, considering that honestly, nobody is talking about this, but among conservatives, apparently, the support is eroding.
CHRIS SUNUNU (R) FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: We don't talk about it either. Like, yeah, that -- that number kind of surprises me. But you know, getting back to -- to the main point of -- if a company wants to -- to do stuff for Pride month and support it, fine. A lot of companies we've seen, you know, did take corporate hits or whatever. But every company has to make it make their choice.
Does it help sell Fords or -- or a car or -- or a soda? If -- if, you know you get more involved, I guess they have to make those decisions for themselves as long as to your point. They have the freedom to do it. But it could have benefits. It could have consequences. I'm a big believer, you know, if you sell widgets, focus on selling the widget, right? If you go too conservative or too liberal or too progressive or too extreme, either way it never really bodes well. I tell corporate America, focus on your product and do the best you can.
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, that's -- Governor Sununu comes with a live free or die state, that used to be the --
(LAUGHTER)
KHANNA: -- that used to be the Republican Party. But George Will just had a column saying, what's going on -- going on with the Republican Party? They're coming after corporations. They're coming after universities. They're coming after the civic sector. What happened to limited government? What happened to allowing companies to decide for themselves? So, I think we need principled conservatives pushing back against the overreach of the administration.
PHILLIP: And there are activists who are out there on the right, who are targeting companies along these lines -- DEI broadly. But -- but certainly, Target was the - was at the center of this. Remember Anheuser Busch, a boycott of Bud Light over Dylan Mulvaney led to a billion dollars in lost sales. So, that is also happening.
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And that is what a lot of companies are seeing. And to your point, they don't want to be in the crosshairs. They've seen companies really step out and then get pushback from a lot of people on the right. And then when they go the -- the pendulum goes the other way, they get pushback from their employees and their customers because they haven't been able to find that balance.
I think the majority of corporations, thankfully, are finding that balance. And even as this overreach administration who has promised to investigate companies if they have DEI programs, a lot of these companies are not pulling back. They are focusing on making sure these initiatives are with the growth sectors.
And with all of the communities of growth that they service, they just might not be talking about it as loudly as they have been before. Which is fine as long as they're not, you know, pulling back and that they're not going against their values. I say do what you need to do to continue to have your business grow.
PHILLIP: Sarah Kate, can I just ask you real quick, and I'll let you in Shermichael. But, I mean are you concerned that there is an erosion happening on the right to things that seem to be settled, especially same sex marriage?
ELLIS: Yeah. I think if you look at what's changed in that -- in that poll, nothing's changed. You know, it's ten years that we're celebrating this year's same sex marriage and the sky didn't fall. It didn't erode at heterosexual marriages. So, it's the rhetoric that's coming out. And it's these fringe anti LGBTQ activists that's grabbed hold of this party that is actually creating this tension where it doesn't even belong and it's unnecessary.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, important really, I think I think most Republicans, to the governor's point, don't generally care about what grown adults do. It's just their businesses -- business rather. I think the issue for many conservatives pertains to children, whether it's trans or individuals with kids playing different sports, that many conservatives will say this is inappropriate.
You look at most of the data, even many Democrats agree with that. It's why most of the ads that we saw last year in November were very effective against the vice president on that particular issue. The issue of reading books to children. A lot of conservatives have said this is a bridge to farts. Again, it's one thing, you're 18, do whatever you want to do. But a lot of conservatives will say we must protect the innocence of children --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I guess that's -- I think that's --
SINGLETON: -- which is why I think there's no other way to go back. PHILLIP: That's what's been the conversation, which is, what's wrong
with children being aware, that gay people exist, that gay families exist?
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: I think a lot of conservatives --
PHILLIP: I think that's -- that's the question that is being asked when you say, oh, we have to protect the children. Are -- are you protecting the children from their neighbors who might have same sex parents?
[22:40:00]
SINGLETON: I think -- I think, Abby, it's a legitimate question to raise that many conservatives have raised as it pertains to sports, for example.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah, I get I get the sports part, but I'm talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Let me answer the question.
PHILLIP: -- why is support for same sex marriage --
SINGLETON: I'm going to answer it.
PHILLIP: -- which is being settled? Why is that eroding?
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: I'm going to answer it.
PHILLIP: Why are we going back in terms of --
CARDONA: Among Republicans.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
CARDONA: Amongst Republicans.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
CARDONA: That's very clear.
SINGLETON: I'm telling you why.
PHILLIP: Okay. Yeah.
SINGLETON: I personally believe, part of the reason for this erosion is because many conservatives look at what's occurring with children. And they say, okay, we didn't particularly care for this, we didn't support this, but it is what it is with same sex marriage, et cetera.
Now, they would argue, many conservatives, and I think they're right on this point, that yet now you're seeing this sort of transgression about around little children, around issues that people would say adults should handle, adults should think about. The notion that kids should somehow subscribe to notions about gender that they really shouldn't be thinking about until they're teenagers is absurd to a lot of conservatives.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: I'd love to jump in here.
ELLIS: Yeah.
CARDONA: Woah. Okay.
ELLIS: So, I just want to say that if reading books about LGBTQ families in school makes you gay, then I should have been straight because I was -- read books about straight couples, heteronormative couples, my entire life. So, I think also, like, leave it to the families. Like, why is government getting involved?
CARDONA: Yeah.
ELLIS: It's more overreach.
SUNUNU: That's exactly right. Leave it to the families, not the schools. Not society throwing it on your kids. When it comes to the discussion, and the appropriateness, and the time of that discussion to happen, and that learning experience to happen, that's between me and my kids. Not the schools, not the teachers and my kids. Not you and my kids. The parents and the kids. Period. End of story.
CARDONA: But when you can't even talk about, you know, little kids could bring this up. If you have a child who has two mothers or two fathers, they're going to bring it up perhaps in their kindergarten class. And then when you have a policy that says, oh my God. No. You can't talk about this, that is not letting little kids flourish in the environment that for them is natural.
SINGLETON: But it's a discussion between the child and the dominant argument right now has been around the sports issue. We -- we we're seeing what's going on in California right now.
CARDONA: That's not what this is.
SINGLETON: But there's a correlation, Maria. But there absolutely is a correlation for many conservatives.
CARDONA: But I-- I think we also need to remember the -- Clarence Thomas in-- in his -- in the decision where they took away the right for women to make decisions for their own bodies. He said, and we should revisit. But is it the case --
ELLIS: Obergefell. CARDONA: Yes. Thank you. Obergefell. That is incredibly dangerous.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: But if you -- if you want me stand -- Maria. Nut if you're --
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: And incredibly scary for people who have fought for this.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: People and kids as, like, a scapegoat.
SINGLETON: Do you want to understand why conservatives have chains on this issue or not?
ELLIS: I've heard it. I've actually heard it.
SINGLETON: But did you want to understand it?
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: I do understand it --
CARDONA: I bet she understands it.
SINGLETON: There's a big difference if you've heard it --
ELLIS: -- and I listened to it. I do, but I think you all should be open to actually having a conversation about it instead of -- only 30 percent, even less than 38 percent --
SINGLETON: Oh, I'm open to having a conversation, of course.
ELLIS: -- of Americans know someone who's trans. When you know somebody and you know their story, it changes your mind about them. These kids --
CARDONA: That's right.
ELLIS: --are kids that are just trying to exist and they want to participate. It's not competitive.
SINGLETON: Well, it is competitive if you have a daughter and your daughter has worked a long time --
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: I have a daughter.
SINGLETON: I have a daughter, as well. And when my daughter plays a sport and she competes against other girls, that's fine. But when someone has a competitive advantage over her that she can never change -- CARDONA: That's not what this is. That's not what this is, Shermichael. You keep linking it to that.
SINGLETON: -- how would that mean for my daughter?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We -- Shermichael, unfortunately --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: No, no, because the correlation matters, Maria, if you want to understand why conservatives --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We can't -- we can't fully litigate that issue. I mean, we've had a couple conversations especially in the last week about the trans girls in sports issue. But the conversation that we're having today about the erosion even of something that, you know, what have four years ago, conservatives, ten more percent of -
SINGLETON: Sure. Sure.
PHILLIP: -- of conservatives were fine with. It is a different conversation than that. And perhaps --
SINGLETON: But you can point to those things that they argue, Abby. Just see the difference. That's what I'm arguing.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Perhaps, perhaps. But I'm not sure I'm not sure that they really are related. I think that some people have made that related.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: I think for conservatives they are related.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right. We -- we do -- sorry. Unfortunately, we do have to go.
SUNUNU: The issue of gay and lesbian and same sex marriage is very different than the transgender issue.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
SUNUNU: And gets completely conflated, right?
PHILLIP: I think that is -- you are making my point perhaps more --
SUNUNU: Yeah.
PHILLIP: -- honestly, than I am able to make it. SUNUNU: No. But it gets conflated and that's why --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right. Sarah Kate Ellis --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Thank you very much for joining us, Sarah Kate Ellis. We appreciate it. Coming up next, a thing I really never thought I'd have to say on television. Joe Biden is not a robot clone, and yet the current president is pushing that online. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:24]
PHILLIP: For two months, all the attention's been on the mental acuity of the previous president. And while the scrutiny is justified, what about the current president? After all, he's pushing a batshit (ph) conspiracy theory that Joe Biden was executed in 2020 and replaced with a clone robot. Bill is back with us at the table. I cannot believe I just read those words.
BILL KRISTOL, "THE BULWARK" EDITOR-IN-CHARGE: I can't either. Now, I --
PHILLIP: Replaced with a robot?
KRISTOL: Trump doesn't believe it. He's cynical. He has a lot of people who love conspiracy theories in his -- among his supporters. He pays no price for the supporters who don't believe any of that nonsense by tweeting it.
[22:50:00]
And some people get revved up and decide Trump's our guy. So, he -- and he does it to provoke, obviously, us at all, but --
PHILLIP: He -- he certainly does.
KRISTOL: Trump does not believe it.
PHILLIP: However, I -- I will say, he has a lot --
KRISTOL: Cynical con man who knows how to speak to a lot of people, but the conspiracists are a big part of the Trump administration.
PHILLIP: Well, he is a -- he is a conspiracist. I mean, he has a long history going all the way back to the birther conspiracy and, you know, the 2020 election conspiracy. I mean, he's big on this stuff.
KRISTOL: He didn't believe it. I mean, he used it to --
PHILLIP: I don't know. I can't say whether he believed it or not, honestly.
UNKNOWN: Russiagate.
SUNUNU: I -- do you think the Democrats are conspiracy theorists? Nothing on Hunter Biden's laptop. Russia -- Russia influenced the election. They were -- but they were -- I mean, come on. Both sides are are -- are definitely to blame.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
SUNUNU: And when it comes to a robot, this would have been the worst functioning robot in history if --if Joe Biden was a robot. I mean, it must have been made and built in China, at a minimum.
PHILLIP: Your argument -- your argument is -- is definitely fair in the sense that Democrats do believe in conspiracies, although I'm not sure the two examples are the best ones. The best one might be the fake Melania conspiracy, which Trump actually denounced in a post on social media. He says that the conspiracy was that there were photoshopped pictures of Melania, claiming that it wasn't really her at his side. So, that -- that is also similar to the robot, I suppose.
KHANNA: You know, the most --
PHILLIP: Body double is the other one, I think.
KHANNA: Country is asking how in the world were we having two 80-year- olds, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, as our leaders in this great country. Kamala Harris' campaign peaked when she was like just anyone but those two.
Nikki Haley said the first person -- first party that nominates someone else is going to win. And I'll tell you this country can't wait till 2028, where we get 15 normal people on both sides and a new generation running. It is an embarrassment. It is an embarrassment what happened in 2024 for America.
SUNUNU: Well, at least our robot works.
PHILLIP: I will - well --
CARDONA: I think that's debatable.
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: Democrats took Nikki Haley's advice. It happened not to work, so I think vice president Harris is being the Democrats are a really wonderful party now that I'm sort of vaguely part of them. But all they do is -- is navel gazing, hand wringing, and then attack each other and attack -- God forbid, and attack their previous candidate. You know, she's given an impossible job, a hundred days out because Biden gets out --
CARDONA: Yeah.
KRISTOL: -- which should have gotten out, of course, two years earlier. And then she runs a pretty decent campaign, makes a couple of mistakes. And now, every democratic meeting I go to, it's like, can you believe how bad Kamala Harris was? Really?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, next time you come back, we want to hear more about those--
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We want to hear more about those Democrat meetings that you've been attending.
(CROSSTALK)
KRISTOL: Believe Trump is so great and you're --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right. Up next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps. What piece of fiction they are afraid might actually become real?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:22]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, Mount Etna edition. The famed Italian volcano suddenly erupted forcing tourists to escape a scene that kind of looks like a disaster movie along the lines of "Dante's Peak". So, that got us thinking. You each have 30 seconds to tell us what other fictional movie you are afraid might become real. Shermichael.
SINGLETON: V for Vendetta. I love the movie, but it really scares the heck out of me guys. Because I think as people look more to government, authorities, organizations to corral crime, to keep them safe, they start putting all of their power and trust into bureaucrats. I don't trust it. Makes me nervous.
PHILLIP: That kind of sounds a little bit like the conversation we were having earlier. All right. All right. Maria.
CARDONA: I think I might agree with that. "The Handmaid's Tale". Terrifying. You know, that -- it was a movie, now a very popular series. Terrifying because they say there that what happened, happened -- when we were not paying attention and we were not fighting back. So, we are going to fight back.
SINGLETON: We're both political.
CARDONA: We're fighting. Yeah, exactly.
PHILLIP: Bill?
KRISTOL: There you go. I got so few movies I feel like I would have cited a movie from 1971 and I want to make fun of these. The Philip Roth novel which Charles Lindbergh, Charles Lindbergh, the America First candidate defeats, I guess wins the Republican nomination and it defeats Franklin Roosevelt in 1940 and is president of The United States in 1941 as Hitler rampages through Europe, that's --that's too close to reality.
CARDONA: Terrifying.
PHILLIP: All right.
KHANNA: So, I want to represent Silicon Valley, the Matrix. I am terrified -- terrified of technology taking over, humanity, and there are way too many people who have been red-pilled in my district.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: Yeah. If I were you, I would be terrified, too.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Governor. Sorry.
SUNUNU: Nothing scarier than "Toy Story". The idea that all my kids' toys are coming alive while I'm asleep freaks me out. Freaks me out. So, no. I would -- I would hope that they all stay where they are, stay inanimate.
UNKNOWN: I have some synergy on these movies.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: "Toy Story" is actually my -- "Toy Story" is like one of my favorite movies.
SUNUNU: Well, what if it was real?
PHILLIP: I know. The toys talk to you. It could be so bad. Okay. So, mine -- mine would be "Paradise". Have you all seen that trailer?
UNKNOWN: Oh, it's "Paradise".
PHILLIP: Yeah, it's like, basically, the plot is like --
CARDONA: It's so good.
PHILLIP: There's a climate disaster that happens and then some rich person builds a bunker. I shouldn't -- you know. Anyway.
CARDONA: You guys should watch it. Yes.
PHILLIP: That's a spoiler. Sorry. But it's very scary because --
(CROSSTALK) PHILLIP: For anyone who survives, so if you're not on the end, you could be left out.
CARDONA: It's a very short list.
PHILLIP: Yes. But also I -- I, there's like a massive, like, tsunami plot line that I am terrified of tsunamis.
[23:00:00]
And that is like one of the things.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: I can't -- I can't even think about tsunamis. It gives me nightmares. Okay, everyone. Thank you very much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X, Instagram, and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" is on right now.
