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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Elon Musk Calls Trump's Bill a Disgusting Abomination; Hegseth Orders Navy to Rename Ship Honoring Gay Icon; "NewsNight" Discusses Trump Meme Coin; Actor George Clooney Speaks with CNN's Anderson Cooper on the Premier of "Good Night, and Good Luck". Aired 10-11p ET
Aired June 03, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, Mr. Mars goes scorched earth. The man who Donald Trump considers a genius is calling the big, beautiful bill disgusting.
Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that okay for your dad to have a meme coin?
As bad as hunter's are or the Clinton Foundation.
PHILLIP: -- Junior gets confronted on his father blurring the line and draws fictional defenses.
Also, at the start of pride month, Pete Hegseth erases a gay rights icon from a ship and considers throwing more of history's heroes overboard.
And from stoned love --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They've been three great choices.
They're courageous and they're brilliant.
PHILLIP: -- to nothing but heartaches. Why the presidents livid with his Supremes.
Live at the table, Cornel West. Joe Borelli, Xochitl Hinojosa and Shermichael Singleton.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about. Republicans are betraying the American people. Those are not my words. Those belong to Elon Musk. Donald Trump's first friend is livid tonight. He's calling the president's spending bill a massive, outrageous, pork-filled and a disgusting abomination. Musk is also encouraging voters to fire everyone who's supporting the bill.
Now, this comes at a critical time as the president tries to shore up support in the Senate for that bill, but it's not working so far. He's lashing out at Senator Rand Paul, who says he can't vote for a bill that increases the national debt. Senator Ron Johnson says the bill doesn't cut spending nearly enough. The White House says both of those Republicans don't have their facts straight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are saying that it will add to the deficit. That is their concern. Is the White House's position that those two Republican senators are, quote, blatantly wrong?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It is. Those senators, it's not news that they disagree with this president on policy. And the president has vocally called them out for it and for -- they're not having their facts together. I would add the Congressional Budget Office has been historically wrong. In fact, they predicted the Trump tax cuts from the president's first term in 2017.
So, those tax cuts in had more nearly a half trillion dollars more of revenue than the Congressional Budget Office scored.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Let's unpack that for now, as Leavitt says the CBO can't be trusted because its analysis of Trump's 2017 tax cuts were so off, but they weren't. Let's look at the numbers. It overstated growth for 2018 by just 0.3 percent and underestimated growth the next year by just 0.2 percent. And while revenue for the last seven years was up $1.5 trillion higher than the estimate, experts say that is chalked up to inflation and the pandemic.
Okay. So, let's say you think the CBO is wrong or is partisan, even though Speaker Mike Johnson thought it was credible when Biden was president, there are three other independent reports that also say that the bill is going to balloon the deficit and save nothing close to what the White House is claiming.
This has been clear from the very beginning that this bill is a spending bill. It raises the deficit. You can say it's for a good reason or a bad reason, whatever it is, but why do they continue to misdirect, lie to the public about what it actually does?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that the White House's argument is predicated upon economic growth, outpacing the expansion of the deficit. I can understand that argument if you have significant cuts. With Musk is saying, which I think any person who's ever run a business in this country would probably agree with, you can't cut taxes while maintaining the same level of expenditures. That's just not possible. The CBO says by 2010 or ten years, rather, our debt will be the number one line item in the federal budget. By 2050, they're expecting 180 percent increase in our deficit. It's going to be twice as much as the gross production that we produce yearly. So, our inability to pay this thing is not good for Americans. It's not good for taxpayers. It's also not good for the standing of the dollar globally.
[22:05:00]
So, I understand what Musk is saying. I think this bill, ultimately, Abby, is going to change into a number of iterations before it goes back to the House. So, we'll see how this plays out.
PHILLIP: Yes. And Musk is -- you know, he's right that the bill is not what they said that they were going to do.
But it's been amazing. I mean, Karoline Leavitt, Stephen Miller they are insisting, a hand on the Bible, that this thing is not increasing the deficit and there's no universe even with blockbuster growth in which it does not.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there has been lie after lie, whether it has been on increasing the deficit, and there are lies there, and even calling out people in their own party. They're also talking about, and they've said a long time, that there have been waste, fraud and abuse and Medicaid and there are undocumented immigrants on it, which is not true and there have been reports of that.
I think what's happening here in the political repercussions for the White House are pretty large. They have a big billionaire problem here. This is a man who is the largest donor to the Republican Party is saying that people who voted for this bill that walked the plank for Donald Trump should potentially face consequences at a time when it's going to be very difficult for Republicans to win back the House.
And so I think that, you know, the White House is now having -- has this billionaire problem. He just left a few days ago and he's already kind of a thorn on their side, and we're only at the beginning here. Who knows what's going to happen in the years to come.
CORNEL WEST (I), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what I find fascinating, and this is deeper than the politics, he uses the language of abomination. Now, see, that's biblical, a Hebrew scripture. That means what God loathes and hates. And you'll turn to the New Testament, Jesus, Luke 16:15 says, it's an abomination to God to love money more than God, than loving God. We got a brother from Marist University here, oh dear Catholic brother. We know loving God means loving neighbor and giving a priority to the least of these, the poor and working people.
So then the question becomes, is the budget itself immoral and unjust when it comes to taking from the poor and giving to the rich, redistricting the wealth available to the poor because the poor are getting cut and Medicaid and others and the rich are benefiting? It may not be a vicious callous thing, but these are the effects and consequences. So, it's interesting that the richest man in the world using biblical language with Jesus is talking about love of money, is the very thing --
PHILLIP: I will say this. I'm not sure that Elon is concerned about the cuts.
JOE BORELLI, FORMER REPUBLICAN LEADER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: I know, he didn't say that.
WEST: He didn't say what I said because I'm talking about priorities.
PHILLIP: He wants more. If it were up to him, he would cut more.
WEST: Absolutely. That's true.
BORELLI: Elon Musk came in, served a function for DOGE, and they had some success, some controversy, some failure. That's been documented at this table for the last three months. The thing that Elon Musk doesn't understand is how to make the sausage. And if this feels like a rerun, it's because we were exactly in this position three or four weeks ago when the House was struggling to come up with the votes to pass the big, beautiful bill, right?
At the end of the day, you're going to see some of these senators come home, right? They are not going to be responsible in their home states for the biggest tax increase on the middle class, right? They are not going to be the ones who eliminate taxes on tips, taxes on overtimes. They're not going to do it. So, even though there's a lot of talk now about the need to cut more spending, I believe there will be more spending cut. But at the end of the day, there's going to be some couple --
SINGLETON: They have to cut that dry. I just don't know how it's possible to balance this thing, looking at projections over the next several decades to not have some pretty extreme cuts. There's going to be a lot of pissed off people, Abby, if I'm being honest, but it's the only way to balance the budget.
BORELLI: But nothing has eliminated the deficit and its effect on sort of the economy more than economic growth over the last decades. The total spend on the Vietnam War was $168 billion. That's half of what HUD spends today, right, so just general economic growth down the road. This bill does that. It provides $11,000 in spending for each in take home pay for each American. It provides tax credits, $2,500 for every family.
SINGLETON: I mean, these are the things in the bill. I don't disagree with you on that, Joe.
BORELLI: This is stimulus. This is a stimulus.
SINGLETON: I don't disagree in protecting and codifying tax cuts. I think that's a good point as well. But, again, we're conservatives. We've always been about austerity. We've always been about passing on an economic condition that is stronger for generations to come. I think we can go a whole lot further.
I think Musk is right. There needs to be more cuts.
(CROSSTALKS)
WEST: Conservative of the old sort. Trump had nothing to do with the conservatism you all talking about.
PHILLIP: The irony is that there are all these members, Republicans, in the House who are now, all of a sudden now that Elon is speaking up, they're like, Scott Perry says, Elon is right to call out House leadership. I wish I had a nickel for every time the Freedom Caucus sounded the alarm and nobody listened only to find out the hard way that we were right all along. We expect massive improvements from the Senate before it gets back to the House.
Anyone want to guess what -- Scott Perry -- how Scott Perry voted on this bill?
[22:10:03]
Yes? No?
SINGLETON: Well tell us, Abby.
PHILLIP: He voted yes.
HINOJOSA: He supported the bill.
PHILLIP: I mean, I guess he thinks it's the Senate's job to produce a good bill. Marjorie Taylor Greene says she didn't even know about a part of the bill, she says, on A.I. that violates state's rights. Eric Swalwell, a Democrat, responds, you have one job to read the effing bill. Whatever happened -- what happened to that?
(CROSSTALKS)
BORELLI: A 1,000-page bill is not that much. A 1,000-page bill --
WEST: 1,100 pages, 1,100.
BORELLI: When you have staff that do nothing but analyze these documents, that shouldn't be too much to have a good understanding. But are you going to remember every single, you know, component of the bill? Of course, you're not going to.
PHILLIP: But why would Scott Perry vote for the bill? Why would the entire Freedom Caucus vote for the bill and then come back after the fact and say, oh, this is a terrible bill now that Elon said that?
HINOJOSA: Well, because I mean, I think Elon Musk opened the door now Republicans for it to be okay to criticize the bill. He's now going out there and saying, you know, one of Trump's biggest allies. I don't know if you saw Speaker Johnson, but he started off his statement, well, well, I disagree with my friend, Elon Musk. Everybody's worried about Elon Musk. He is the most powerful, wealthiest person in the world.
And so I think that when it comes, he allows the Republican party to now go out there and criticize it. And I think this is just the beginning.
SINGLETON: I mean, Musk has given permission, but the Freedom Caucus from day one, they have been very clear where they stand as it pertains to this bill and many bills from the past.
That said, Mike Johnson's the speaker of the house. The expectation is for the speaker to bring his caucus together to pass this piece of legislation and he did that. He did his job. That doesn't mean everybody --
WEST: But the problem is that we know Johnson and Trump have been lying saying it would not contribute to the deficit. That's not true. That's just false. That's a lie. And therefore we have to -- now what's interesting is you didn't see Elon say, Trump, you are lying. But by implication he is because Trump said X and he said, not X.
But I'll tell you this, what they won't deal with is the military expansion. What is an abomination right now is what's happening in Gaza and we are supporting, sponsoring, facilitating with money and equipment. That level of unbelievable misery, that level of unbelievable atrocity.
BORELLI: Well, they can give back the hostages and we can have a peace deal and go forward. That would be great.
WEST: I would love to get the hostages, but when you got 20,000 babies, my brother, Palestinian babies --
(CROSSTALKS)
WEST: That's an abomination just spiritually --
PHILLIP: On the broader point of the spending, which, you know, is part of what he's raising here, Republicans are now in power. They are not willing to even consider cutting the parts of the government that they could tap into.
SINGLETON: Like the military?
PHILLIP: Yes.
SINGLETON: I mean, look at China's expansion and they're prioritizing military growth.
PHILLIP: There's no conversation about -- you know, even Elon was saying a few months ago, waste, fraud and abuse in the Pentagon. There's a whole report that has been written about where it is. Why not actually go after those things? There's not even a conversation about it.
BORELLI: Well, we're talking about waste, fraud and abuse in Medicaid and everyone's having a conniption of the -- PHILLIP: Well, that's because --
BORELLI: God forbid, we want work requirements for people on Medicaid. God forbid --
PHILLIP: The honest interpretation of what is in this bill is not just waste, fraud and abuse. In fact, arguably, it is not at all waste, fraud and abuse. Because when you change the requirements for eligibility, that's not waste, fraud and abuse, that's just changing the requirements for eligibility. But those are not the same thing.
BORELLI: Sure, but (INAUDIBLE) requiring to work, and I think that's a great thing.
PHILLIP: That's not what you said.
BORELLI: I think that's a fantastic thing.
PHILLIP: But that's not what you said, Joe. Is it -- are you changing the requirements or are you going after waste, fraud and abuse?
BORELLI: Well, I'm just going to do both.
PHILLIP: Because it sounds like you're changing the requirements, and just say that. If that's what you're going to do, I think that's part of what's happening here.
SINGLETON: I wouldn't be opposed to us looking back to the, what, early middle 90s and looking at what Clinton and Newt Gingrich did in terms of eliminating, what, 340,000-plus federal jobs that yielded an ultimate surplus to the economy writ large. It had significant cuts across the board. I would actually encourage Republicans to do something like that. That's beneficial to the --
BORELLI: You said there was no conversations happening. I think you're underestimating. I think the Republicans conference this bill to death and with a three seat majority, and my dear friend Andrew Garbarino sleeping through the damn vote. You know, it took a lot of compromise.
SINGLETON: They barely got across it.
BORELLI: It took a lot of compromise to pass this.
PHILLIP: Okay, yes, but there is almost nothing the way of significant action cuts in spending.
PHILLIP: Okay. Guys, we got to leave it there for this conversation.
Up next for us, the defense secretary erases the name of a gay icon from a Navy ship and is considering renaming others, including Harriet Tubman and Thurgood Marshall.
[22:15:00]
Plus, see what happened when Don Jr. gets confronted about the shady crypto deals that are enriching his father and his family. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: It is Pride Month, and the Pentagon is celebrating by removing the name of a gay rights icon from a naval ship honoring him. A defense official tells CNN that Pete Hegseth ordered the secretary of the Navy to rename the USNS Harvey Milk. Milk became one of the first out gay elected officials in the United States when he won a seat on San Francisco's Board of Supervisors in 1977.
[22:20:07]
Just a year later, he was assassinated.
In a statement the Pentagon said, Secretary Hegseth is committed to ensuring that the names attached to all DOD installations and assets are reflective of the commander-in-chief's priorities, our nation's history and the warrior ethos.
Well, what the warrior ethos is exactly? That is unclear. Harvey Milk is a Navy veteran and served during the Korean War in 1955. He was forced to resign because he was gay.
And it's worth noting that on the list of names that they are reportedly considering, this is according to the CBS and The New York Times, CNN has it independently confirmed it, it's Thurgood Marshall, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Harriet Tubman, Dolores Huerta, Lucy Stone, Cesar Chavez, Medgar Evers, civil rights leaders, all of them, women and people of color.
WEST: No, I think it's always very important to look at this through a moral and spiritual lens. See, brother, I had met Brother Harvey and, you know, he supported Goldwater in '64. He's a Jewish brother from Bayshore. He underwent a change and transformation. He was murdered, organized hatred against precious gay brothers and lesbian sisters and trans and black folk and brown folk and Jews and Arabs and Muslims and white folk. All human beings can be hated. And we've got to put a stop to the cycle of any form of hatred. And it was -- Moscone was also assassinated. The mayor was assassinated the same day, right? And it was a supervisor who had voted against them, who killed him, and then he committed suicide after he left jail.
How did -- that's a level of spiritual decay back then that we still have to come to terms with today. So, when I look at those, when I say Harriet Tubman, I say, oh my God, Harriet Tubman's too good to be on any U.S. ship anyway, to tell you the truth. But, I mean --
PHILLIP: Well, that's a different conversation.
WEST: Exactly. That's a different --
PHILLIP: I mean, Harriet Tubman, talk about warrior ethos.
WEST: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: Okay?
SINGLETON: Gun toting, you know, I'm a gun person.
PHILLIP: I mean --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I mean, what are we doing here? Is the idea just that if you are a woman, if you are a person of color in American history, you don't get remembered or recorded on a ship. But if you are a Confederate traitor to this country, you do. I mean, Donald Trump back in 2017 said it was sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You can't change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, I mean, that's worth defending, but not Harriet Tubman, Thurgood Marshall, Medgar Evers?
SINGLETON: Medgar Evers, Harriet Tubman, I think their names should stay on the ships. I mean, these were incredible Americans who withstood insurmountable odds, I mean, certainly things that, hell, I certainly couldn't imagine today, Abby, in the modern sense. And I would argue, you know, thinking about the warrior ethos, particularly Harriet Tubman, I mean, this is someone who I think really embodies what you would want in a warrior, someone with a level of courage and magnanimity. You talked about this once before, Doctor, a couple years ago. And so I would certainly think she would be someone who would instill the sense of pride and fearlessness you would want in your warriors.
I'm not exactly sure why the secretary is making this decision. I know he says he wants to move in a different direction. But those three individuals in particular, I think we should leave their names on the ship.
HINOJOSA: But do you want -- is this really what we want our secretary of defense to be focused on right now? Don't we want him to be focused on the strength of our military, keeping people safe, not someone's sexual orientation? I mean the job of the secretary of defense is to make sure that we have a strong military, not spend his trying time trying to figure out what is going to appease the far right or Donald Trump.
And this is the problem with Hegseth. And I think that from the beginning, he has shown that he has not qualified for this job. He does not know how to do his job. And time after time after time again, we continue to see that he has no idea what this job is about and he cannot lead the Department of Defense. And so I think it's a real question about why is he spending his time doing this.
PHILLIP: It's three days into Pride Month and clearly a signal is being sent to the LGBTQ community, but particularly on this issue of gay rights, which we had a conversation on the show about this yesterday about the erosion of support for gay rights among conservatives. This seems to be a very clear signal that they want to double down on that. And I think the question, to Xochitl's point, is why? Why is this a priority for the defense secretary?
BORELLI: Well, I mean, let's not forget the Republicans had the first transgender speaker at a national conference in 2016.
PHILLIP: Would they do that today?
BORELLI: President Trump -- I think she'd probably be invited to the White House if she does.
PHILLIP: You think so?
BORELLI: President Trump made secretary Bessent, the secretary of treasury, the highest ranking at -- to my recollection, the highest ranking openly gay American to ever hold that office.
[22:25:07]
He's had Rick Grenell in his first administration. He was the president to actually run openly in support of gay marriage. So, I don't think his LGBT record is really in question.
But this isn't the hill I would die on. Just let me start with that caveat. But let me try to explain. There is still controversy about the LGBT movement, right? We have this debate at this panel. We talk about men in women sports and things like that. And we used to name Navy Oilers after Rivers. I looked that up before I came here, right? And at some point, the previous administration and others decided we're going to make political statements. And most of the people that they named chips after have no real political controversial views.
And I think we are still having a debate over part of the LGBT issue in terms of how broad of a scope the movement can go without pushback. We're seeing, again, this issue with women and men competing in the same sports is an 80-20 issue where people are not with the LGBT community, right.
PHILLIP: Yes, but --
BORELLI: I'm only saying that because we used to name ships after things that were not at all politically --
PHILLIP: Yes. Okay, we name ships after people all the time, as we've established. We named military bases after people all the time. Some of those people tried to overthrow this very government. And so all of a sudden when the people are black, brown, or women, it's a problem, but it's not a problem when it was, you know. Andrew Jackson, or whatever it is, you know?
BORELLI: I think you should be taking it off too. I mean, it's not --
PHILLIP: And so I guess this -- you know, you were talking about Trump's credentials on LGBTQ issues. I think you're right about all the things that you noted. But I do ask -- the question I have to ask is, what signal are they sending by making this move now and doing it with this particular ship that's named after someone who was killed just because he was gay?
BORELLI: I think his name was included to insert an idea into the public sphere about a political issue that we're having. I think that's part of somewhat a DEI movement, the thing that Pete Hegseth has been talking about. So, I think at the very least, whether you agree with me or not, we're going to see more of this type of stuff happening, I think, as the military recalibrates.
PHILLIP: I just want you to finish the thought because is the statement that he is making that people like Harvey Milk should not be honored in this country? Like what is the statement?
BORELLI: No. I mean, Harriet Tubman is honored in so many ways. I can't count it. And I'm not saying she doesn't deserve a ship. But my point is if there is still -- if there's a remnant of DEI included in certain things, including the names of --
PHILLIP: How is that DEI?
BORELLI: Because I think it's a person whose contribution to society is celebrating the diversity of LGBT people? Well, in my opinion --
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, it could be that he served honorably in the Navy. It could be that he was an elected official.
BORELLI: We had no other municipal elected officials with ship's named after, not one.
PHILLIP: Yes. But he was --
BORELLI: It's because he was a gay rights advocate.
PHILLIP: Pete Hegseth, in an attempt to rename formerly named Confederate military bases back to their Confederate names, picked out of a list of veterans just random people who served, which is fine. Harvey Milk is a person who served.
BORELLI: These ain't the issues I die on, by the way.
(CROSSTALKS)
WEST: But I think part of what's at stake here is how do you separate the raw vilification and hatred of vulnerable people no matter who they are? And I've mentioned a whole list before, right? And it's a human thing, but we got to keep track of it. And then how do you have a respectful political conversation about wrestling with various issues and policies.
The sad thing is that they blew it (ph). And so that's why so many of us said, no, we will defend our precious trans and gays and lesbians even if we disagree with certain policies that's coming out of that community. I'm going to defend black folk even when I have deep disagreements with black people because I want their humanity affirmed. And that means, what, giving them the right to be wrong and the right to be right. But when you're just throwing out a bone, and it's homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist --
BORELLI: You're talking about transphobia. We just saw an Olympics where a person who we all could see was a man beat the heck out of some women on live T.V. And we were told -- WEST: But that's a different issue though. That's a different issue.
BORELLI: it isn't.
WEST: Because we want fairness in sports.
BORELLI: So, you support Imane Khelif in the Olympics? Yes or no?
WEST: I want fairness. I believe there must be fairness in sports.
BORELLI: Was it right that Imane Khelif was able to beat up women?
PHILLIP: I just have to note one thing, because this has happened, not specifically with you, Joe, but it's happened on this show so many times over the last few days with our conservative friends, that any time that the conversation is about gay rights, the conversation shifts to trans people because that's more comfortable to talk about.
[22:30:04]
And I think it's important as he was saying, you know, even if you take trans -- we're not even talking --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: But there's consensus.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on.
BORELLI: I think there's consensus --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: No, no, no.
BORELLI: -- to be allowed in America.
PHILLIP: There's not a single person on this list who is a trans person. Okay? So, let's just put that to the side for one second. All of these people are not that. Harvey Milk was a -- was a gay man. Why is it that the conversation always has to shift to that territory?
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: All I can say is -
PHILLIP: And I feel like it's more comfortable politically to talk about that.
SINGLETON: All I can say is Thurgood Marshall, Harriet Tubman -- all of those individuals --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Dolores --
SINGLETON: I don't -- I have the other individuals I don't have any particular, you know, unity or reviews one way or the other on them. But those folks have done a whole lot for our country, a whole lot for our community. I think every American could really be proud of them. And again, I think they do, particularly Harriet Tubman, she certainly speaks to, I think, the warrior ethos that the secretary is talking about. The other individuals, I'll let him make whatever decision he wants to make on them.
PHILLIP: I mean, that's, look. I think the question is, why is the defense secretary just picking and choosing based on trying to make statements about specific groups? I mean, you mentioned a few names. But there are people on this list who have done things for other groups -- Cesar Chavez and others.
UNKNOWN: Yeah. Yeah.
PHILLIP: So, I mean, it doesn't make them less heroic because maybe Pete Hegseth doesn't know about them.
SINGLETON: Yeah. Sure. And I did not -- I did not cite them because I don't think they're important. I just know that the three black Americans because they are important to me. That's all.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm just saying. I just want to make a note that black --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm a black person. You know, you're black person. But I also know who these people are as I --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Why weren't there any conservatives on the list?
PHILLIP: Well look, because I didn't make this list.
BORELLI: But who did? They essentially write there the previous Secretary of Defense.
PHILLIP: No, no, no. Pete Hegseth --
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: This is all people who are part of the -- the John Lewis class of Oilers, right?
PHILLIP: Yeah.
BORELLI: So -- so who named them --
(CROSSTALK) WEST: Joe, Harriet Tubman and her brother Robert George and I were right there in the Supreme Court quarters when he actually was sworn in on the bible of Harriet Tubman and I was standing right next to him. This is my conservative Republican Catholic brother who I love deeply and I disagree but I love him much.
And Harriet Tubman was a religious conservative. Her bible was almost as big as hers. She was only four feet nine inches. Her bible is this big.
BORELLI: Yeah.
WEST: If that's not religious conservatism, I'm not the son of Irene Clifton.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: Let me - let me --
PHILLIP: All right.
WEST: So what do we mean about conservative conservatism?
PHILLIP: I think that's actually a good place to -- to end this conference.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Joe, Joe.
BORELLI: In this country where Democrats --
PHILLIP: We got to go.
BORELLI: -- that's slavery.
PHILLIP: Joe, we got to -- we -- we do have to go because I think that's a -- that's a good point to end on. That what we think is conservative today was not conservative.
BORELLI: Nineteenth century.
PHILLIP: Past. Coming up next for us though, Don Junior gets grilled on his father's crypto coin and the shadiness of their foreign deals. We'll debate that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:37:38]
PHILLIP: As President Trump's crypto coin raises ethics and conflict of interest concerns, his son, Don Junior, is coming to his defense. But his argument doesn't add up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE KERNEN, CNBC NEWS ANCHOR: Is that okay for your dad to have a meme coin?
DONALD TRUMP JR., AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN: I think of - listen. Of course, when, you know, when he did that before he was in office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Technically, I guess, he's right. Trump launched his meme coin on January 17, just days before he was sworn in. But it was well after he was already reelected. When pressed in the same interview, Don Junior claimed that no one knew anything about the meme coin buyers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP JR.: I think well, I think the meme coin, you -- you don't know who's actually doing any of these things, right? So --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP, JR.: They were done before.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP, JR.: -- because it's hard to influence if you don't actually know where the stuff's coming from, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: That is not true. Trump does know who his top investors are. He invited them to an exclusive dinner at his golf club outside of D.C. about a week ago. Backed into a corner, Don Junior then distanced himself from it altogether.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP, JR.: Well, I wasn't involved in the meme coin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But that is not the story he told at a Bitcoin conference last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Did you orange pill your debt?
TRUMP, JR.: We probably maybe got there a little bit before him, and once we started explaining to him the potential, as you know, I mean, he's a quick study. He, you know, he then got it, really quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He was kind of stumbling his way through that interview partly because it is hard to defend the president-elect launching a meme coin three days before his inauguration. And then, you know, at around the hundred day mark, rewarding the people who have -- foreign investors, mind you, hundreds of millions of dollars into this meme coin with an audience with him.
HINOJOSA: That's right. I think you had -- there are 200 people who were there. He knew who they were. This is the -- probably the biggest conflict of interest that you have seen from a president and a sitting president.
And I think what's interesting is at the end, after he's facing all of these tough questions, which the optics are not great, And Don Junior, I don't think he's ruled out any run for office later down the road. And I do think that he does worry about what he looks like and what his own perception is, and how people view him after the presidency.
[22:40:07]
You saw something similar with Ivanka Trump. She's very cozy with her father for a very long time while he was in office, and then all of a sudden backed away from it when it became a problem for her. And so, I think this is what you're seeing from Don Junior is that this is now becoming a problem.
PHILLIP: But --
HINOJOSA: He does not want to be part of that.
PHILLIP: Don Junior is also just, to be honest, not telling the truth.
HINOJOSA: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Because he is busy making money off of crypto. They are also, I mean, it -- it goes even beyond the money.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It goes even beyond the money-making. It is also influencing the policy, which they directly benefit from through their business dealings. So, he is all in on this thing.
SINGLETON: Well, look at it. In -- in that interview, he talked a lot about, one, how transformative the Trump administration will be for cryptocurrency which I believe is incredibly important.
PHILLIP: I bet. I bet it will be.
SINGLETON: And he talked a lot about democratizing finance after their experiences when his father went through the various trials at a very difficult time getting loans.
PHILLIP: But let me -- let me --
SINGLETON: So -- so that --
PHILLIP: Let me play that because you just mentioned it. We have the clip.
SINGLETON: Okay.
PHILLIP: So, we're going to play -- he's talking about how tough it was to be a Trump after Trump got into politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP JR.: There was a time, and probably I'd been on this show, where there was a -- I could call any single banker in New York City, they'd pick up the phone, I'd be able to get a loan for whatever real estate project I was doing across the street.
Then we got into politics and all of a sudden, they wouldn't take your call, you couldn't get financing, we were de banked. Now, we were all of a sudden in the shoes of the regular guy that wouldn't be able to take advantage of the markets, and we said, what's the solution for that? The answer is crypto.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Huh? Wait, huh?
SINGLETON: He is correct. He is correct.
PHILLIP: He is arguing that he was in the shoes of the regular guy?
SINGLETON: But -- but --
PHILLIP: What guy is he talking about? I mean --
SINGLETON: I think we're missing the overall point, though --
PHILLIP: Look --
SINGLETON: --which is that crypto does demarketize finance.
PHILLIP: Okay. Look at all what -- what all Trump organization was involved in. Trump organization found guilty on all counts of criminal tax fraud.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Allen Weisselberg, the former Trump org CFO sentenced to five months in jail. I mean look, part of it is because of their own actions, their own conducting a business. But the idea that they were boxed out --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: But -- but his overall point of democratizing finance, crypto does allow everyday regular individuals to go around traditional institutions that discriminate against people because of lower credit scores, maybe because of their race, predatory lending.
Crypto allows you to go around all of those things, which was an overall point that he made towards the end of that interview. He's 100 percent spot on there. This is a momentous opportunity for a lot of everyday Americans to potentially build considerable wealth in ways that they have never had in the past.
HINOJOSA: So, you're talking about the President of The United States.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Wait --
HINOJOSA: This is not some normal person.
SINGLETON: But did you watch the whole interview?
HINOJOSA: Yes. I did watch --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Exactly what I just said. And that's important.
HINOJOSA: I understand that, but we were talking specifically about the conflict of interest of the president and him benefiting from presidency of The United States.
SINGLETON: Of course. You guys are Democrats --
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: No, no, no. So, would you. So would you.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: If Joe Biden was doing that exact same thing, he would be out here saying that exact thing about any Democrat.
SINGLETON: Hunter Biden profiting off -- I wasn't going to bring that up. Never said that you want to go there. You obviously did.
HINOJOSA: You know what? I am happy to have this conversation because the President of The United States is making money off of the presidency. You did not see that from Hunter Biden. You did not see that from Joe Biden.
SINGLETON: What? Are you kidding me?
HINOJOSA: You did not -- you did not see that from Biden.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: I'm happy to tell you --
PHILLIP: Wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on.
HINOJOSA: Joe Biden's on Justice Department --
PHILLIP: I -- I guess I get the Hunter Biden of it all. But -- but even you, Shermichael, would acknowledge that the Hunter Biden allegations deal with Hunter Biden's actions before Joe Biden was -- was president of The United States.
UNKNOWN: The vice president.
PHILLIP: He was vice president. Right.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He wasn't -- and also even --
SINGLETON: Come on now, Abby.
PHILLIP: Well, okay. I'm just saying, show me the money.
UNKNOWN: The same --
PHILLIP: I can show you the money with Donald Trump. No.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: It's the same week. Almost the same week we're talking about Donald Trump's meme coin, which in the two articles you showed on the screen didn't have a crime Donald Trump committed. The things you pointed out didn't name a crime Donald Trump committed. But that same week, that same very week, that's the week when Joe Biden pardoned his son and his other family members for crimes we all know they did.
WEST: But -- but what this does though for me brother, Joe, is this.
BORELLI: Is this family they didn't commit a crime?
WEST: Well, the President wouldn't remember the family in years.
(LAUGHTER)
BORELLI: What's your love? What's your love?
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: My mom? Yes. No matter what, but she's gone. But my point is this --
PHILLIP: Hold on.
WEST: My point is this. We live in a corrupt political system because big money disproportionately shapes the operations and the dynamics of the system. Both parties are complicitous. We could talk about Biden. We could talk about Trump. We could talk about the Democratic Party. We could talk about the Republican Party.
The larger backdrop is the biblical insight. Love of money. Trump's love of the poor and justice. And that Trump is not just an ironic gesture here, but I'm standing in contact with his humanity.
[22:45:01]
But he has no fundamental commitment to the poor people that Jesus was talking about, that Hebrew -- the Hebrew prophets were talking about. And when you have a system that's colonized by big money, it doesn't make any difference what the party you're calling.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: If you think --
WEST: The Democrats and Republicans -- they both at the same.
PHILLIP: Okay.
WEST: Drinking from the same Trump.
PHILLIP: There is a huge problem, right, with money in politics. The -- the influence --
WEST: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: --- of wealthy people in politics. But we have never seen a sitting president do what Donald Trump has done just in a short amount of time.
WEST: He said more --
PHILLIP: Just look at this. okay? The Trump and Melania meme coins with -- between trading fees and other revenues, $350 million pocketed, okay? While he is President of The United States, digital trading cards, $7.2 million -- World Liberty Financial, which Don Junior was there talking and talking about -- $550 million in sale. They are going around the world --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: Trading fees --
PHILLIP: Shermichael. They are going around the world telling foreign investors how they can influence MAGA and invest in MAGA which is invest in them.
SINGLETON: But it's really important for people who may not understand crypto to understand those trading feeds or for the platforms where you trade the crypto. Not necessarily the dev who created the specific --
PHILLIP: Yeah. Yeah. But you know -- but you know that --
SINGLETON: There's a real distinction that has to be made.
PHILLIP: Okay. But you -- you understand that for the Trump coin, they specifically in -- in the fine print, they are taking a cut out of each transaction that happens on the Trump coin. Okay? So, they are making money off the piece.
SINGLETON: Any -- any dev that creates a token, that's kind of normal, Abby --
PHILLIP: Okay, so --
SINGLETON: -- in this space.
PHILLIP: Why are we --
SINGLETON: I know people may not be aware of this, but that's the way this works.
PHILLIP: We're not even arguing about this. I'm just saying he's making money off of it. You agree.
SINGLETON: Well, President --
PHILLIP: The question is, should he be making money off of meme coin while he is a sitting president?
SINGLETON: I'm not bothered by it. I'm not bothered by it. I'm not bothered by it.
BORELLI: I'm still waiting for it in in your home.
HINOJOSA: And you're not bothered by it.
BORELLI: Everything you said, I'm waiting for it. I'm waiting for it. This is against the law, and he's done that and you can't say --
PHILLIP: Well, you know --
BORELLI: -- that because nothing that you're alleging is actually against the law. Nothing --
HINOJOSA: Nothing the president can do is against the law because the Supreme Court has ruled that.
BORELLI: No.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: One of the reasons that --
BORELLI: The president is not breaking any laws and no one is making that allegation because you have no evidence.
PHILLIP: Okay. So, let me just get this straight. Hunter Biden making money off of his father being vice president illegal. Donald Trump Junior making money off his father being president perfectly legal.
BORELLI: Using his influence to influence American policy --
PHILLIP: Okay.
BORELLI: -- to profit in a ceremony is illegal.
PHILLIP: Don Junior --
BORELLI: Having an investment -- having an investment -- PHILLIP: Okay. Okay. Hold on. Hold on.
BORELLI: -- prior to office.
PHILLIP: All right. Yeah.
BORELLI: And now, reaping the benefits of the investment is not a crime.
PHILLIP: Hunter Biden -- Hunter Biden, using his influence with his father to influence U.S. policy is illegal. Don Junior using his influence with his father to influence U.S. policy around crypto perfectly lead --
BORELLI: Which policy?
SINGLETON: Well, I'm a go out on a limb.
PHILLIP: Crypto policy.
BORELLI: Which -- which --
PHILLIP: You don't think that he's influenced crypto policy? He's on TV talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: The stock market's good.
SINGLETON: But I will go out on a limb here, Abby.
PHILLIP: I'm just asking you if you're willing to say that about one person, why can't you say it about the other?
BORELLI: Because there's a clear link between, the president's action -- the vice president -- excuse me, the vice president at the time's actions.
PHILLIP: Okay.
BORELLI: And Hunter Biden profiting.
PHILLIP: Okay.
BORELLI: That's a crime. That's a quid pro quo. I'm waiting for the quid pro quo in your allegation of President Trump. I don't see it.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So Joe, I'm -- I'm not seeing the - I'm not seeing how you make a distinction between, you know, Hunter Biden's actions and things that he benefits from and Don Junior and Eric Trump's or whatever it is, their actions out in the world and the things that benefit both the president and them and influence U.S. policy. How do you make that distinction? It doesn't exist. BORELLI: Hunter Biden, invest in a commodity, stock, bond, crypto, and
just reap the benefits of that investment, then that's fine. Instead, he used his father's office to actually influence U.S, policy.
PHILLIP: Okay.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: So, Don Junior, let's just be clear about what's happening here. The -- Don Junior and the Trump family, they created a meme coin. They're benefiting off it -- profiting off of it. They are then putting the President of The United States in a room with those investors who are foreigners. And then you're saying that's perfectly legal.
UNKNOWN: So -- so --
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: She's asking for more consistency.
PHILLIP: I just want to be clear about that because -- I want to be clear about that because we could also be intellectually honest and consistent about it. Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: I mentioned Hunter Biden because I think Democrats are now jumping on Trump family and they said nothing about Hunter -- the reason I brought it up. I don't necessarily have a problem with Hunter making money while his father was in office because my expectation is that--
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I thought you didn't have a problem with that.
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: No, no. The reason I brought it up is because you guys are being hypocrites.
(CROSSTALK)
BORELLI: That's the point. You're conflating too soon.
(CROSSTALK)
WEST: No, no, no.
HINOJOSA: So, we are not being hypocrites. The Justice Department --
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: -- but never actually prosecuted --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGLETON: -- as much money as they possibly can.
PHILLIP: All right. It is a fair point that -- that -- Xochtl -- Justice Department prosecuted Hunter Biden. Donald Trump's Justice Department did not. All right --
WEST: But if either party wants to be morally consistent all we're going to get is --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Coming up next for us, though, George Clooney tells CNN that today's political era is worse than McCarthyism. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(22:54:46)
PHILLIP: In an interview ahead of the premiere of good night and good luck on CNN Saturday night, George Clooney talks to Anderson Cooper about Edward R. Murrow and Joe McCarthy's witch hunt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: What's fun about the play is, although McCarthyism was bad, it wasn't anywhere near as, pervasive as it is right now.
[22:55:07]
The kind of fear that you see kind of stretching through law firms and universities.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You think it's worse now than McCarthy's term?
CLOONEY: I do think it is worse now. Although, there is one caveat that kind of gets ignored when people talk about this, which is when I was a kid, we did duck and cover drills. So, overriding all of this was the threat of nuclear annihilation. Very big deal. I mean, we were pretty sure we were going to all die of a nuclear bomb somewhere along the way. So, that always kind of rode on top of the McCarthyism of it all.
But McCarthyism, what's fun about doing the play is it reminds people that, you know, that we have been through difficult times -- challenging times, and that we survive it as a country. And we do find our better angels along the way. It takes a minute. You know, we always do. We always have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You can watch the special live broadcast of the Broadway show right here on CNN, Saturday night at 7 P.M. eastern.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:13]
PHILLIP: And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media on X, Instagram, or TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
