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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Says Epstein Poached Young Women From Mar-a-Lago; Maxwell Offers To Testify In Congress, But Demands Immunity; U.N. Agencies Say, Worst-Case Scenario Of Famine Unfolding; United Nations Agencies Say Famine Unfolds; Earthquake Shakes Russia's East Coast; Midtown Manhattan Shooter's Brain To Be Examined For CTE. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 29, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight. MAGA defended the president by claiming he cut ties with a friend over dark secrets. But Donald Trump is ditching that defense.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He stole people that work for me.
PHILLIP: Turns out one included a young Epstein victim.
Plus, one group declares the manmade crisis in Gaza a famine as one man gaslight.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: There is no starvation in doubt.
PHILLIP: And another demands credit.
TRUMP: It would be nice to have at least a thank you.
PHILLIP: Also, conservatives insist other nations pay the tariffs, but one Republican wants Americans to get rebate checks to ease the pain, just not all Americans.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): This is going to be Trump blue collar voters.
PHILLIP: And New York's deadliest shooting in a quarter century sparks reaction about guns, immigrants, crime and mental health.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): We don't need more gun control. We need more idiot control.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Kevin O'Leary, Tiffany Cross, Brooke Goldstein, Nayeera Haq, Peter Beinart, and Rana Foroohar.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about, revisions. That is what Donald Trump is doing about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. The president's defenders have always said Trump abandoned Epstein after learning about the abuse, for being a creep, is how they described it. But now Trump is abandoning that defense all together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He hired help and I said, don't ever do that again. He stole people that work for me. I said, don't ever do that again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, that was 24 hours ago. And tonight, Trump is going even further, saying that Epstein poached young women who were working at Mar-a-Lago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Were some of the workers that were taken from you, were some of them young women?
TRUMP: Were some of them --
REPORTER: Were some of them young women.
TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say, but everyone knows the people that were taken. And it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad. But that store's been pretty well out there. And the answer is, yes, they were. Yes.
REPORTER: What did they do?
TRUMP: In the spa?
REPORTER: What were their jobs? In the spa?
TRUMP: Yes, people that work in the spa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: On top of that, Trump appeared to confirm that one of the women, Epstein stole from him, those were his words, was Virginia Giuffre, who was one of Epstein's most vocal victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think she worked at the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people. Yes, he stole her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Giuffre died by suicide earlier this year. But this revelation raises even more questions about the timeline of Trump's knowledge, of Epstein's behavior. Giuffre had said in a statement and in a deposition that Ghislaine Maxwell recruited her back in 2000 when she was working as a locker room attendant at Mar-a-Lago. And yet in a 2002 interview, Trump was still praising Epstein as a terrific guy and a lot of fun. And, quote, it is even said that he likes beautiful women, as I do, as many of them are on the younger side.
Joining us in our fifth seat is Attorney Donte Mills. He's a law professor at Temple. This is all just very strange, Donte. Connect the dots here for us in the sense that Trump is embedding himself, I think, more deeply into this Epstein saga by the day. And at the same time that this is happening, Ghislaine Maxwell is trying to push the government into some kind of arrangement that gives her some kind of immunity, perhaps some kind of clemency for the things that she's already been convicted of.
DONTE MILLS, CIVIL AND CRIMINAL ATTORNEY: I'm going to start by -- Tiffany and I were having a conversation. She asked me what I was talking about here, and we said the Epstein story, and she said she wasn't a fan of the story. And I tried to then jump in and say, well, it's important, because we have to protect these young women and this is still happening. And she said, well, not that it's just how it's being covered and what's being highlighted.
What's lost in this, it's become a political issue. And what's lost is the victims. There are victims here who nobody's being held accountable for abusing them.
[22:05:04]
And not only that, part of punishment is a deterrence. There are future victims that are going to be exposed to people who take advantage of these young girls because nobody's being held accountable. So, there is no deterrence from anyone who would harm young women in the same way moving forward.
What Donald Trump is doing is talking about all kind of stories unrelated to the most important part here, which is the victims. He talked about someone that was impacted to the point that she took her own life because of her experience and never once talked about remorse for that, never once said, I had her and could have protected her, but I didn't.
His concern was that someone stole one of his employees. That's not how we should be talking about this. And I want to applaud you for kind of highlighting that, because that's what's important to you.
PHILLIP: Tiffany, I mean, you've expressed your skepticism about this, but, I mean, as he, Donte, just laid out, that is really ultimately what this is about. For the people on the right who care about it, for the people who on the left, who care about it. Trump thinks that this is all just political games. But there are many people who care about the victims here.
TIFFANY CROSS, AUTHOR, SAY IT LOUDER!: Yes. But again, the victims are what matters. I don't know that people really care about the victims. Again, this became a story because the right-leaning extremists thought the Clintons were attached to it. And so then it was political fodder and let's attach ourselves to it.
I wonder for all the people on the left and the right, the Democrats and Republicans, all the people who care about this, I really wonder what do we think is going to happen? Do we think that somehow the MAGA base is going to abandon their cult leader because you know, he's somehow in these Epstein files or because he lied? I don't think so. We already know he's a liar. He and his wife are both birthers. They lied about where. Obama was born. He lies about his crowd sizes at these inauguration, at his first inauguration and other campaign events. He lies about the economy. He lies about Obama committing treason.
I just don't know that it will have any influence. I think the DOJ should pursue justice on behalf of the victims, but to turn this into like political gamesmanship. Moreover, we already know that Trump has a history of making inappropriate comments for young girls. And in 2015, I believe the reporting from The Daily Beast highlighted that during the Mis Teen USA pageant, he would come in the room when girls as young as 15 were getting undressed. That didn't stop to hear from supporting him.
PHILLIP: To your point about who you know, is he really going to get thrown overboard by MAGA, this is Joe Rogan. So, he's not exactly a hundred percent MAGA, but he's one of the reasons perhaps that Trump has inroads with the people who actually allowed him to win, which was many people in the middle. Here's what he had to say about the Epstein saga.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, HOST, THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE: When Kash Patel was on here, and he was like, there's no -- there's nothing. And I was like, what are you talking?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ROGAN: I didn't even know what to say. The whole thing was nuts. And then he's like, well, we have a film. We're going to release that film. And the film has a (BLEEP) minute missing from it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ROGAN: Like do you think we're babies? Like what is this?
This one's a line in the sand, when you have this one hardcore line in the sand that everybody had been talking about forever, and then they're trying to gaslight you on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, essentially he's saying Trump is insulting the intelligence of his own base.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: which is not -- that part is not unusual, right? In general of saying, you know, tariffs aren't going to hurt you or lying about policies. What's unusual about this is Trump has actively told his base to move on. He's called them weaklings, and that this is wrong and it gets to the heart of what really unites left and right in this circumstance. I wish I could say it was the victims, but I think it's about the awareness of power imbalances and how people with power and money can get away with almost anything.
And Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were the brokers for people in power to do things that anybody else would've been thrown in prison for.
MILLS: Yes. We don't have a single name of anybody that's in power that was associated with that, which is bizarre.
HAQ: And so this case, it's hard to believe --
PHILLIP: Changing his story on this. Can I ask you a question?
KEVIN O'LEARY, CHAIRMAN, O'LEARY VENTURES: Sure.
PHILLIP: Why does Trump keep changing his story?
O'LEARY: My answer to whole, this whole thing is who cares? I mean, this is not new information.
MILLS: The young girl --
O'LEARY: We've got a felon in prison who will do anything to shorten her sentence and she wants indemnification. I don't think she's going to get it. Epstein, still dead as of last night, dead today, dead tomorrow, more dead the day after that.
PHILLIP: So, why is Trump considering -- he continues to not rule out pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell? To your point, she's been convicted, right? She's been convicted of actually some very serious crimes. And many of the victims are publicly -- they implicate her very directly in this whole scene.
O'LEARY: She is a felon, convicted.
PHILLIP: But why won't Trump, Trump rule out pardoning her? Why are they even talking to her about an immunity deal? Why?
O'LEARY: Okay. If any of you cared about the victims, you wouldn't drag these women who are in childbearing years now, some of them having children, back into the limelight, back into the same story, to expose them again to this hideous outcome because these guys --
[22:10:00]
MILLS: Because if you don't --
(CROSSTALKS)
MILLS: They could be doing it to somebody else right now, as we say here on T.V.
O'LEARY: They don't want you to help them anymore. They want to -- CROSS: How do you know that? What are you basing that on?
O'LEARY: I know certainty they'd rather live up their lives than keep being brought back talking about Epstein. You're really thinking they want that now? They're done with it.
CROSS: You're speaking what the half of women saying that you personally spoken to victims who said they do not want justice.
O'LEARY: I have spoken to no one. I'm just being pragmatic.
CROSS: So, then that is an irresponsible statement.
O'LEARY: You're dragging out women who have --
CROSS: You have no idea what these young women went.
O'LEARY: Don't you think if it was you, you'd rather get on with your life? Aren't you done with this?
CROSS: No. If there were me, I want justice pursued.
(CROSSTALKS)
O'LEARY: Money? What do you want? What do you want?
CROSS: (INAUDIBLE) get on with his life?
O'LEARY: The truth is out. There's a prisoner and there's a dead guy. That's the truth, all right? That's what happened.
CROSS: And that's the only truth that exists.
HAQ: But here's the truth that we know, is that Jeffrey Epstein was in prison for many times.
O'LEARY: Is he still dead, by the way?
HAQ: He died on Trump's watch under Bill Barr, his attorney general.
O'LEARY: Did Trump kill him? Is that what you're saying?
HAQ: Bill Barr said, there's nothing to see here. Let's move on. Justice has been served, and Trump kept tweeting about it.
O'LEARY: What are you suggesting?
HAQ: He threw out the entire bite. I'm suggesting --
O'LEARY: I love what you're saying. Trump went into the prison, killed him?
HAQ: Let me finish the sentence then.
CROSS: That's not what -- HAQ: Well, what I'm telling you is that Trump continued this story. The reason this story exists is because Trump continued it through the Biden administration, through his early years to the point where his attorney general said that she's going to look at the papers on her desk. They're there right now. She has hundreds of hours of video to release. This is all of his own doing, and now he's trying to walk himself out of the hole.
PHILLIP: Hold on. Let me interrupt in here, because, Brooke, let me just show you this. Because earlier this week, Elon Musk amplified this message on acts with a bull's eye, saying that this is spot on. The message says, here's how it all goes down. Ghislaine names a bunch of Democrats, maybe tosses in a few billionaires. She says, Trump did nothing wrong. MAGA praises her for taking down pedophiles. Trump pardons her for telling the truth.
For many people, it looks like a very convenient sequence of events that would be very favorable to Donald Trump if there was anything embarrassing about him in this whole saga.
O'LEARY: Trump is not pardoning her.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY: We started this whole conversation, I think with a very intelligent statement, which is we don't want to politicize the issue, but now all we're doing is politicizing it. This is not an issue that just occurred during the Trump administration. We all know that.
Now, I want to say something and I want my position to be clear. Ghislaine is a terrible, horrible person. I think it would be an awful idea to give her a pardon? I think she should rot in jail. I don't think, however, that Trump is fearful of what may come out. He is suing The Wall Street Journal for defamation. Everybody knows in a lawsuit you have to testify, you go through discovery. If he was afraid of something coming out, I don't think he would do that.
He actually just directed the Department of Justice to request of a Florida court, which denied the request to release the grand jury testimony. It might go to a New York court. I think it is going to a New York court this August the 7th.
PHILLIP: You know he also has access to documents that are not --
GOLDSTEIN: Well, the FBI --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: And also I think that I don't -- I think that the -- look, I'm not saying Trump actually -- there is anything about Trump. I'm just asking the question that everybody's asking, which is why then does he continue to talk about this, to act incredibly defensively, to put his former personal attorney in a position where he could offer leniency to someone who was involved in order to release information that perhaps might be damaging to other people.
GOLDSTEIN: We don't have total justice right now. Why has no one been brought in as a co-conspirator?
PHILLIP: Is that really the only way when there are -- there's like -- there are like ten gigabytes of data that the FBI has?
(CROSSTALKS)
HAQ: The irony is that after all the promises of releasing files and claiming about information that most people say doesn't really exist, right? Most people are saying there is not a list of, you know, a black book of all of his clients, right? But the buildup to it, the constant conversations to the point where your own deputy director at the FBI, an ardent MAGA fan, is like we're bungling this right now, and I can't handle this. Why did the Justice Department release a, there's nothing to be seen here, unsigned statement on a Monday, right? This is poorly, poorly handled, and Trump is only making it worse.
O'LEARY: Any American family sitting at the kitchen table tonight, why do they care? How does this make their life better?
MILLS: Because if their daughter went go missing --
O'LEARY: Why does this make their life better tomorrow rather than have the government worrying about things that matter? You know, this is not the number one agenda item --
(CROSSTALKS)
HAQ: It is the same --
MILLS: The release the list and get these predators off the street. It will matter to a family, their, if recruited --
(CROSSTALKS)
GOLDSTEIN: I'll tell you why they can't release a list, at least we're assuming.
PHILLIP: Okay, quick last word, and the we got to go.
GOLDSTEIN: But what are the files? The files are everything the FBI went and got from his house. What's in there is probably sensitive material about underage girls. They can't just release that. There's no list that he has. It says, this person --
MILLS: You really believe they don't know not one person that participated in this?
GOLDSTEIN: You know, it's all media speculation.
[22:15:00]
There're zero facts. And that's what we've been doing over and over again on NewsNight and all these shows is just speculating. And that's why this is now a story that everybody wants to continue speculating around -- HAQ: It was a story years before Trump came into office. We've all acknowledged that.
PHILLIP: I mean, it's really only a story because Trump promised his supporters he would do something about it.
O'LEARY: Abby, the only way this story works is Epstein comes back tomorrow to testify.
PHILLIP: Donte Mills, thank you very much for joining us.
Ahead, a Republican senator wants to give out rebate checks to ease the pain from tariffs, but only to Trump voters. Another special guest is going to join us at the table.
Plus, dramatic new images of desperation in Gaza as Israel gaslights over starvation there and Donald Trump demands praise. We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the worst case scenario of famine is unfolding in Gaza. That's the message coming from the U.N. agencies. But Israel all week has essentially been saying, don't believe your eyes. That means the video and pictures coming out of Gaza of emaciated, dying children of people crying, begging for food of the chaos at the few aid distribution sites there, they aren't real, according to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: Israel is presented as though we are applying a campaign of starvation in Gaza. What a boldface lie. There is no policy of starvation in Gaza and there is no starvation in Gaza. We enable humanitarian throughout the duration of the war to enter Gaza. Otherwise, there would be no Gazans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But it is very real. This is Nor Abu Sales (ph). She is ten years old. She's one of the many children who have died waiting for food.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She became like this because of hunger, thirst in the siege, the siege imposed on us by the Israelis, her uncle shouts.
This is a Palestinian child. He says the world would be outraged if only she had been born anywhere else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But Donald Trump isn't buying Netanyahu's claims either. It's images like these that has forced Trump to break with his Israeli counterpart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But we're going to be getting some good, strong food. We can save a lot of people. I mean, some of those kids are -- that's real starvation stuff. I see it. And you can't fake that. So, we're going to be even more involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Aid has been slowly getting into Gaza, but the desperation is making efforts difficult. And the U.N. says it is still not nearly enough. The desperation reached such a point that people are jumping onto moving aid trucks to try to beat the lines. Still, hundreds of people are arriving at drop-offs with all the food gone. This little boy here seen trying to scoop up any flower that fell on the floor.
A source sent this aerial picture to CNN's Jake Tapper showing the stunning scale of devastation that is only making the challenge of providing aid even more difficult. Two of Israel's leading humanitarian groups have seen enough. For the first time, they say that Israel is committing genocide against the people of Gaza.
Joining us in our fifth seat at the table is Peter Beinart. He's the author of Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza.
It might surprise some people to hear President Trump say what he said in contradiction to Netanyahu. But perhaps it is more surprising that he then hasn't necessarily exerted the kind of pressure that perhaps he could to change the course of this conflict and the food distribution situation there.
PETER BEINART, AUTHOR, BEING JEWISH AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF GAZA: Yes, I mean, there were reports of starvation from Gaza from last March of last year. Nick Kristof in the New York Times were a column last March of 2024. I just want to quote from him. He says, this is from a Palestinian academic in Gaza. Me and my wife have decided to eat a meal every two days just to keep our kids alive. What is left for us is hay. We have started grinding it, bake it, and eat it. Because we have started eating the hay bread we now defecate blood mixed with hay.
This was almost a year and a half ago. And the United States kept the weapons going. This is the Biden administration. And when the International Criminal Court last November accused -- issued a warrant for Netanyahu for the war crime of starvation, the United States trashed the International Criminal Court and the Israel got the message that it could not only continue to do this, but go further, which is why for almost three months earlier this year, Israel cut off all food, all medicine, all water into Gaza. And that's why we are now here. The United States is profoundly complicit in this starvation.
PHILLIP: Brooke, it seems incredibly damaging to the credibility of Netanyahu and the state of Israel for him to deny what people can see with their own eyes. GOLDSTEIN: So, I want to start off by saying that what's happening in Gaza is terrible and emotions are running very high. There's a lot of misinformation out there and it's important for us to get to the facts of the issue. I want to say to what Peter said, there's not only reports of starvation and Gaza for a year, there's been reports since 2007 of starvation and Gaza. Because what happened in 2007? Hamas took over Gaza. There were no reports of starvation prior to that when Israel was in control of Gaza.
[22:25:04]
Now, the facts are right now we have over 600 trucks, food trucks, and thousands of crates in Northern Gaza that the United Nations is refusing to distribute inside Gaza.
Now, I know that Peter has also said that the reason why they can't distribute is because Israel has a law and is refusing to allow the United Nations Relief Works Agency into Gaza. Israel is not allowing UNWRA into Gaza as long as UNWRA refuses say it will not work directly with Hamas.
PHILLIP: So let me just pause you there.
GOLDSTEIN: Let me just say one more contrast that weight to what's happening in Southern Gaza.
PHILLIP: I'm going to pause there just to address, there's a lot that you're saying. You just said two things that seem actually pretty contradictory. You said the U.N. is refusing to let -- to distribute aid in Gaza but you also said that Israel is refusing to allow the U.N. to distribute in Gaza.
GOLDSTEIN: So, let me clarify. The United Nations --
PHILLIP: So, which one is it? And also, I mean, look, you know, there are reports of starvation in Gaza. Even in 2007, imagine the circumstances right now back when there was aid coming into Gaza at the clip of 600 trucks per day. There was still a need. Now, the clip is more like 30 trucks per day.
GOLDSTEIN: So, let me clarify. As long as the United Nations refuses to guarantee that it will not work with Hamas in the distribution of aid because we know Hamas uses food as a weapon, Israel won't allow UNWRA in. It will allow --
PHILLIP: I just want to --
GOLDSTEIN: Let me just finish my point. Contrast that on what's happening in Southern Gaza --
PHILLIP: You're making a claim that we heard --
GOLDSTEIN: -- where the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is distributing --
PHILLIP: You're making a claim that we've heard a lot, we've heard this a lot in the, especially in the last couple of weeks. On Friday, CNN had a report that was confirmed by a number of other news outlets. An internal U.S. government review found no evidence of widespread theft by Hamas of U.S.-funded humanitarian aid in Gaza, contradicting the State Department's claims that were used to justify backing controversial private organization that took over a distribution in the enclave, quote, there was no indication that there was a systemic loss due to Hamas interference or theft or diversion, according to a source familiar with that report.
HAQ: The reality on the ground right now is that you have four aid distribution centers when there used to be 400. So, whoever is in charge right now is failing the people of Gaza. The international order continues to fail, not just Gazans, but people in famine and starvation conditions around the globe because it falls prey to narratives and propaganda to justify whichever power is there, as opposed to facts, images that we all conceive very clearly.
The lack of transparency inside Gaza is part of the project to continue it being just a narrative game, and rather than allowing organizations like The New York Times to report directly from the ground, right?
So, this is all part --
GOLDSTEIN: 200 journalists have been killed.
HAQ: 60,000 Gazans have died.
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) a lot more from people on the right, actually. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene says it's the most truthful and easiest thing to say that October 7th in Israel was horrific and all the hostages must be returned, but so is the genocide, humanitarian, crisis, and starvation happening in Gaza. Texas, representative, a Republican, Lance Gooden, says, standing with Israel means eliminating the every barbaric Hamas terrorist. It also means rejecting, killing and starvation of children in Gaza.
This is not about left versus right, it seems at this point. Does the United States government now need to do more to exert influence over its ally where, you know, we're in control of --
GOLDSTEIN: Well, what are we doing to assert influence over Hamas? Who is -- it's disingenuous.
CROSS: I can't imagine seeing this dead child and not having humanity for that child.
GOLDSTEIN: Nobody wants dead children.
CROSS: Who looks at that and then start talking about Hamas.
GOLDSTEIN: Disingenuous to say you care about dead children.
CROSS: We've seen children dying.
GOLDSTEIN: But who is responsible and she is the subject of Hamas. You just sat here and so much misinformation. Who is --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: I just want one at a time, please.
CROSS: Okay. Can I just say the United States is complicit in this, like Peter said. When we saw that child, I wanted to look away and I forced myself to look at it because we do not get the privilege of looking away at children being starve to death. I could not look at that and then change the subject to talk about what Hamas is doing, what Gaza is doing. What is happening is Netanyahu is doing this. He is being funded by the United States government.
All these symbolic gestures that the U.K. might acknowledge Palestine as a state, it doesn't matter.
[22:30:01]
The UK is the country, the world's sixth largest economy, and they have reduced their funding to Israel. Cut it off.
That is why he is doing this because he's being allowed and he's being funded and everyone is complicit in that. And if you something like that and your heart doesn't break and bleed, the only response is something like that is get these children fed and save these people's lives.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: Are you accusing me of not caring about children?
(CROSSTALK)
CROSS: It doesn't sound like you care. It doesn't sound like you care.
(CROSSTALK)
BEINART: I think it was my turn --
(CROSSTALK)
BEINART: "The New York Times" reported that even Israeli military officials deny the claim of their own government that there has been systematic stealing of food and even Israeli military officials say that the prior U.N. distribution system, which had 400 agencies, that when Israel allowed it to function, it was far more effective than what we have now.
It is important to remember that the stated policy of the Israeli government, it gives me no pleasure to say this, the stated policy of the Israeli government is to enact the Trump plan for the mass expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza. The Netanyahu government has said again and again, we are working to bring about the Trump plan.
That is why three of those four distribution centers are in the extreme south of Gaza, and part of the plan is to force the entire population into a tiny sliver of the Gaza Strip to execute ultimately the expulsion of as many of them as possible. And making life as hellish as possible makes it more likely that you will force people out.
PHILLIP: Brooke and then Kevin. Go AHEAH.
GOLDSTEIN: Okay. I think it's very disingenuous to say that you care about starving children, but then not take a deep dive look into why there is a problem of food distribution in Gaza. There is no food shortage. There is plenty of food. There are so many organizations that are trying to distribute it.
The Israelis are trying to distribute. They're dropping food with parachutes. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is trying to distribute it. And yet it is not getting to people, in northern Gaza, because Hamas is in control. I just see videos --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Brooke, I just -- hold on a second.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Brooke, I have to pause you there because again, like, it's very misleading what you're saying. Israel controls food distribution in Gaza. Israel has full control of the Gaza Territory.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: That's not true.
PHILLIP: Israel controls food distribution. That's why, as you pointed out, there are aid drops. You know when that happened? Last week after a public pressure. Israel has now increased the amount of food that they have allowed in. Why? Because of public pressure.
They control how much food gets in. And yes, there is food coming in, but the point is that it is not enough. It's not a question of is anything coming in? Is it sufficient to meet the basic nutritional needs of people in Gaza? It's a fact that that is not happening right now. That's not a debate of opinions.
(CROSSTALK)
HAQ: And the fact also that part of this propaganda conversation that happens in these Israel-Palestine circles is to go back 10 years, 15, 20 years. This is a moment where Israel has full military control over Gaza. Children are starving. Solve that immediate problem before we start redirecting history in whichever direction people want to.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Can I give you a quick last word, Kevin?
O'LEARY: Yeah, the problem with this conflict for both sides is it's unique in the last 36 months. All of those images you're seeing are not oppressed, majority of them come from individual cell phones. And so, no matter what spin or what side you're on or what you're advocating for, the images are real. They're brutal. They're factual. They're not made up. They're not A.I. They're distributed around the world.
I look at all the feeds, including European feeds, the British, the Swiss, the French. It's too bad because it doesn't matter what one government says or the other or the U.S .or Netanyahu. The fact is, there are starving children. And it's just -- at the end of the day, you can't win with spin. It doesn't matter what side you're on.
This -- this conflict is actually a cell phone conflict. The truth is coming out in a way that's never been done before through social media, and no one's going to win. And as far as I know, it's unfortunate. Netanyahu right now --
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: So, why are they using the images of children --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: We have to go.
GOLDSTEIN: -- with genetic diseases and not starvation?
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: There's no -- there's no politics --
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: The image is real.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: Why are they using --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Those children with -- those children with genetic diseases are still starving too, Brooke. They're also starving.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: The have a brother --
PHILLIP: Beinart, thank you very much for joining us. Next for us, as Donald Trump declares victory in his tariff war, the fine print is starting to emerge. Plus, a Republican senator wants to give out rebates, but only to MAGA voters. Another special guest is going to be with us at the table. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:39:25] PHILLIP: If other nations are paying Donald Trump's tariffs, then why does a Republican senator want to give out rebate checks to ease the pain for Americans? Senator Josh Hawley introduced a bill that would provide $600 to each adult and dependent child, but he says not everybody qualifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): This is not going to the hedge fund managers or all the Biden voters. This is not going to the Wall Street kingpins. They don't -- they don't need any of it. This is going to the Trump blue collar voters, the people who Joe Biden crushed, the people who didn't get a raise under Joe Biden for four long years.
[22:40:02]
The people who cannot afford their gas because Joe Biden shut down our energy, who can't afford their groceries because Joe Biden dragged up the price of everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Joining us now in our fifth seat at the table is CNN Global Economic Analyst, Rana Foroohar. Rana, say what? $600 but only for Trump supporters?
RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: Yeah, you know, I don't know what to say about that part of it. I think the rebate is interesting because it's kind of an admission that, you know, tariffs are going to cause inflation. We're looking at some deals. We've just seen a deal with the E.U. recently that's going to basically triple the level of tariffs on products coming into the U.S. from there.
You know, we've seen other deals with Japan. There's a truce with China right now. But you know, I think there's really no doubt that there is going to be some inflationary impact. And I think this is an acknowledgement of that.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: What a better way to right that wrong than to launder the money through the United States government and hand out $600 checks.
HAQ: Well, Governor Kathy Hochul of New York State announced that she would be giving rebate checks. She called them inflation rebate to all, like, 8.4 million households in New York State. And that's supposed to be hitting households in October. She's not dividing it along partisan lines, but it's an acknowledgement that inflation was here, is going to get worse.
There's going to be an impact of these tariffs. I just find it ironic, as you said, that the Republican senator is the one acknowledging that Americans are going to be hit hard and Americans will need relief because the tariffs aren't being paid by those other countries. They're just going to have a harder time getting their goods in here. We're the ones ultimately who have to -- (CROSSTALK)
HAQ: -- the pocketbook.
PHILLIP: Before -- Kevin, 1.2 percent was the tariff level on E.U. imports. Now, it's 15 percent and that's supposed to be a huge victory for Americans?
O'LEARY: Fifteen up to 27. The E.U. deal was negotiated by a team of five representing 26 different jurisdictions. Both the French and the German came out this morning and said we're not happy with the outcome of that negotiation.
The only reason Europeans have agreed to an asymmetric tariff, in other words, they're paying more to come and bring their products here than we are paying to go into Europe is because of two sectors, pharma and automotive. They can't give up access to the American market for these behemoth businesses they have in pharma and automotive.
What's interesting about this whole narrative about rebate checks, because Trump also brought it up, and these other ideas. That's a bad idea. What should be happening now with any extra income is to pay down the national debt.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, I would agree with that one.
O'LEARY: That's the opportunity because the greatest gift you can give to the future is to pay down the debt which is just really, really big. And so, I think at the end of the day, we're still negotiating with these countries because we don't have deals with Mexico, no deals with Canada, India, no deal.
Europe looks like it's negotiating something here. But the real big mama is Chin and we're just starting the dance with those guys. That's a big deal. And no administration has ever tried to do all this at once.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
O'LEARY: You get the headline number, but you don't get the details.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah, but even to your point, I mean, China is a big deal. But the "Times" had an interesting statistic, courtesy of Goldman Sachs. Fifty-six percent of U.S. imports, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Brazil, and India, no deal yet with any of those countries. And the deadline is August 1st. It's coming. So, what is Trump going to do when more than half of, you know, the countries that we trade with, there's no deal and tariffs are going to trigger, you know, 30 percent, 40 percent, 50 percent in some cases?
GOLDSTEIN: Yeah, well, I think he makes deals and he moves deadlines all the time. I don't think giving money back to the people through the American Worker Rebate Act is the definition of laundering money. I think -- I actually think it's a great idea.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDSTEIN: We have a 37 trillion --
PHILLIP: It sounds like the government taxing people in one way --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: And then saying, I'm going to take your money that I've been taxed for you and I'm going to distort the market and give that money back to you in the form of a rebate check.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
GOLDSTEIN: Right. To compensate for the things that -- things that will be more expensive.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: They're putting -- putting socialists to love things like that, that I thought the Republican Party was about communism -- about capitalism.
(CROSSTALK)
HAQ: But you know who actually did a really great consumer branding job with giving money back to the people was actually George Bush when he gave out, right, everybody remembers the Bush bucks that they got, like, oh yeah we got our money, thank you for our tax rebate.
And you know Obama then tried a more economically sound make your work pay tax credit, which was like 10 bucks a paycheck. Like who noticed that? So, there is this idea of making it visible and physically accessible to people that resonates with consumers. It does nothing for the actual economy.
(CROSSTALK)
FOROOHAR: Yeah, you know, I got to agree with Kevin on this. This -- this kind of thing that Holly's putting out there, it worries me because there's so much in this administration that, okay, there might be some good ideas, but the left hand and the right hand are not doing the same thing.
The debt really is the most important thing. And when you get down to what consumers are going to be feeling in the next few years, boy, if the debt remains where it is, and we don't do something about that, borrowing costs are going to soar, and that is going to be much more impactful, ultimately.
[22:45:10]
If you're paying double digits on your -- on your mortgages or on your car loans the way people were in the '70s, that's a way bigger deal than what's happening with tariffs right now, and we don't really know what's going to happen for another couple of quarters probably.
CROSS: And this wasn't even Holly's idea. This was Donald Trump said this last week and I think Holly is trying to jump on this because he just is fresh off his vote to cut Medicaid and the people in his state are not happy with him. So, I think he's just regurgitating one of Donald Trump's random thoughts. Even economists say this is just a Band-Aid that would actually exacerbate the belief.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: The General Motors CFO came on this week saying, look, our margins are down 45 percent specifically because of tariffs on car parts. But as a company, we're going to fix it in the next six months. And there's a lot of optimism, what he said. He said, a third of it we're going to eat in our margins. A third, we're going to push back the consumers and raise the prices of our automobiles in the U.S.
But here's the one that the market loved, he said. And a third, we're just going to fix because of A.I. productivity. And all of a sudden --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It sounds like --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- to me.
(CROSSTALK)
O'LEARY: -- every sector is talking about the potential productivity of A.I.
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
O'LEARY: And he was very specific. Now, it takes a lot of kahunas to say you're going to fix a 45 percent reduction in your margins and the market bought it. And so, we're looking for that opportunity --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I think there's a reason --
(CROSSTALK)
HAQ: -- led by how workers feel or how workers are doing or how, you know, real wages are happening around the country, right? That's not the market there. The reality that the American people are going to be facing is that they have somebody waving, a check in front of them, whether it's the governor of New York or a senator.
And meanwhile, billionaires are not paying taxes and, you know, Trump's tax credit at his tax breaks, those have gone straight through. They didn't set -- they didn't sunset. And so, you know, in addition to the high mortgages and the high interest rates, you're also going to have very few public services available.
FOROOHAR: Well, I think the A.I. thing is -- is a big concern. And I think younger people are going to feel that and that's going to create more polarization, too, in terms of people going one direction politically, maybe in younger people going another.
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much for being here. Breaking news tonight. Right now, the West Coast of the United States is under a tsunami watch, as is Japan, after a massive earthquake just off of Russia. We'll bring you the latest on that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:52:03]
PHILLIP: Breaking news tonight, tsunami alerts for the entire U.S. West Coast after a massive 8.8 magnitude earthquake struck off of Russia's East Coast. Those warnings include Alaska, Hawaii and the entire U.S. West Coast. We are learning that the first tsunami waves have already been detected in parts of Russia and also Japan.
Now, this is the strongest quake on the planet since 2011 when a 9.0 magnitude tremor hit northeast Japan and triggered a devastating tsunami. CNN's Ivan Watson is live for us now in Hong Kong. Ivan, what can you tell us?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Abby, it's been about three and a half hours since this massive earthquake struck off the eastern coast of Russia's Kamchatka region. And as you pointed out, 8.8 magnitude, one the most powerful earthquakes ever. And it has sent a chain of tsunami warnings and advisories across and around the Pacific.
The Russian regions of Kamchatka and the Sakhalin Islands, there have been orders to evacuate. The first wave has believed to have hit parts of Kamchatka at a height of around three to four meters. Though so far officials there say the damage is minimal.
But there are also warnings and advisories going out to Tokyo, Indonesia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and U.S. territories like the island of Guam and the Mariana Islands, and Hawaii ,and of course, the west coast of the U.S., as well.
We have reports of an initial wave that hit parts of Japan only about 30 centimeters high, but the authorities there aren't taking any chances. They're ordering evacuations for people to go to higher ground.
And then the warnings of the estimated arrival time of possible tsunamis to areas like Alaska and the west coast of the U.S., the mainland, that is still several hours away, but the advisories are in effect right now. So, authorities are taking this very, very seriously. Abby. PHILLIP: As they should, it could be potentially a very dangerous
situation. Ivan Watson, please keep us posted as this unfolds throughout the night. Thank you very much for that report. And coming up, the Trump administration is still facing pressure to release all of the so-called Epstein files. Julie K. Brown, who's reporting, led to Epstein finally being tried for sex trafficking. We'll answer your questions about them. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:18]
PHILLIP: New details tonight after a gunman went on a rampage in an office building in Midtown Manhattan. The New York Medical Examiner now says the shooter's brain will be examined for CTE. That's a brain disease that is linked to head trauma. A source tells CNN that there was a suicide note inside the shooter's pocket, alleging that he suffered from CTE.
Investigators believe the gunman was headed toward the NFL's offices in that building, but ultimately took the wrong elevator. Four people were killed, including an off duty police officer. Another person is seriously injured tonight. Our thoughts are with all of them and their families.
Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
