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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Sources Say, Trump Officials To Hold Dinner On Epstein Strategy; Trump on DOJ Meeting With Maxwell, Don't Want Anyone Hurt; Trump Says, FBI May Have To Help Round Up Texas Democrats; 'NewsNight" Discusses Trump's Comments On Jobs Report; Trump Calls CNN's Harry Enten A Different Name. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 05, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, a suspicious explanation for why the DOJ is talking with Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: People that should not be involved or aren't involved are not hurt.
BERMAN: As Republicans subpoena a dream team of MAGA's most wanted.
Plus, catch us if you can. Texas now wants the FBI to hunt down the Democrats on the run, as the President says redrawing the map isn't a privilege but a right.
TRUMP: We are entitled to five more seats.
BERMAN: And the polls aren't real.
TRUMP: I have fake polls.
BERMAN: The numbers aren't real.
TRUMP: The numbers were rigged, okay?
BERMAN: And now, apparently, Donald Trump's promise to deport all those here illegally, that's not real either.
TRUMP: People that live in the inner city are not doing that work. These people do it naturally.
BERMAN: Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Julie Roginsky, Shemichael Singleton, Xochitl Hinojosa and Mimi Rocah.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN (on camera): All right. Good evening. I'm John Berman in New York in for Abby Philip, and we do have breaking news, the vice president hosting a Jeffrey Epstein themed dinner party. Just moments ago, CNN reported that tomorrow, Vice President J.D. Vance will host the White House chief of staff, FBI director, attorney general and deputy attorney general for an evening of discussion and strategy. The goal, to have a unified response to the Epstein's situation. That's what they want.
What the president says he wants is to make sure certain people are not hurt by the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. The question is, which people, and is it really plural? After all, it was his former defense attorney who met for two days with his former acquaintance, who also happens to be convicted of conspiring to sexually abuse minors with Jeffrey Epstein, who happens to be a former pretty close friend of the president by some accounts. Two days, they met.
Tonight, the president says he really doesn't know about that meeting between Todd Blanche, who is now the number two at the Justice Department and Ghislaine Maxwell. He doesn't know except that he says it's about not hurting people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Do you believe that she's credible to be listening to your deputy attorney general, who sat down with her recently?
TRUMP: Well, he's -- let me tell you, he's a very talented man.
COLLINS: But what about her --
TRUMP: His name is Todd Blanche. He's a very legitimate person.
I didn't talk to him about it, but I will tell you that whatever he asked would be totally appropriate and it's not an uncommon thing to do that. And I think he probably wants to make sure that you know, people that should not be involved or aren't involved or not hurt by something, that would be very, very unfortunate, very unfair to a lot of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: By hurting whom, unfair to whom? He says people, but how plural really? Remember, we've reported there's no indication that president is connected to any wrongdoing, but we also reported that Attorney General Pam Bondi and Blanche told President Trump his name is in the Epstein files.
As we said before, joining the fifth seat is Mimi Rocah. She is the former Westchester County district attorney. I'm happy to say that during her tenure, I was convicted of no crimes. Mimi, thank you for being with us.
Two days. I'm going to get back to this dinner party at the vice president's in a second, but, first, the president, you know, talking about this meeting between Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell, they met for two days and the president says it was about not hurting people. That seems like a long time to discuss who not to hurt. MIMI ROCAH, FORMER WESTCHESTER COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Yes. He also said it's something that's very common and happens all the time. And I just want to reiterate, it is not common. It does not happen all the time. There is absolutely nothing normal about the DOJ's use of its power in this way to go and meet with a convicted -- any convicted felon, let alone someone convicted of child enticement crimes, child abuse crimes, sex abuse, to not make a case, like that is not what they're trying to do here.
That would be normal if you meet with someone, you're trying to cooperate them, get information to try to get -- you know, make a case or bring an indictment, that is not what's going on here.
[22:05:04]
And I know it's jumping ahead, but, I mean, the fact that the DOJ is directly coordinating with the White House and the political actors to determine what and how DOJ should act, I mean, I know we're so far down the rabbit hole, but that almost doesn't warrant conversation anymore, but it really still has to. This is not appropriate. It is not an appropriate use of DOJ's power. And the people getting hurt here the most, if we can just refocus for a second, are the victims.
And we don't need to read their heartbreaking letters and see them, as they have been talking on CNN to know that. I mean, you can imagine if you've been a victim of sexual abuse from the time you were, you know, 14 years old, say, you are reliving this now in such a way it is triggering them. But nobody at the White House or DOJ, where they're supposed to think about victims, is thinking about it.
BERMAN: Yes. I don't think the president was talking about the victims there, Scott. He was saying people that should not be involved are not involved are not hurt by something that would be very unfortunate. He says that would be unfair.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think multiple things can be true. And I've heard a number of people in and around the president's orbit say, absolutely, you can't, and Republicans on Capitol Hill, you can't do anything here, release any information or make any moves that would put any victim in harm's way. So, that is obviously a priority.
Number two, there are obviously going to be names of people in these, you know, thousands upon thousands of documents who have done nothing wrong at all other than be, you know, part of hearsay conversations. And I suspect that they're also trying to figure out how not to hurt those people or defame them by releasing a bunch of information.
So, I don't ultimately know what they're going to do, but I totally agree with you. Priority number one should be don't do anything at all that would hurt the victims. Priority number two would be if there's any further evidence of crimes to be mined out of any of this, that should be going on. I suspect that's why they talked to Maxwell at all, even though I don't find her to be particularly credible. And that's where we are. And then we'll have to see what comes out of this meeting that they're having a J.D. Vance's house. XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But, Scott, if you are in charge of the case and you are trying to figure out whether other crimes have been committed, it is the job of the prosecutor involved in the case to do those interviews. It is the job of the prosecutor involved in the case to make determinations and to make recommendations to the U.S. attorney about what else should happen at that case, is in that case. It is not the job of the president's former personal defense attorney to make --
JENNINGS: Well, he's a deputy attorney general, just to be clear.
HINOJOSA: Yes, but he was his former -- he is Donald Trump's fixer.
JENNINGS: Confirmed by the Senate.
HINOJOSA: Todd Blanche was placed inside the Department of Justice because he is Donald Trump's fixer. That's exactly what he absolutely is. And so what he did in this case is the Epstein matter became -- is out of control. It's a political problem for Donald Trump in this administration. So, who does he send to take care of this? Not the prosecutors on the case, not the act acting US attorney. It was Todd b Blanche, who is now in charge of trying to fix his problem, interviewing Maxwell.
JENNINGS: What do you mean, fix it?
HINOJOSA: Interviewing Maxwell.
JENNINGS: Well, he said take care of this. What do you mean? Like he's down there interviewing threatening her. What do you mean?
HINOJOSA: Interviewing Maxwell, which he shouldn't be doing. It should be why a job of an FBI agent or a fair prosecutor to do that, because he's a political appointee and the political appointees shouldn't be involved in cases --
JENNINGS: You know what's amazing? I hear this all the time here. We come out here in almost every issue, someone makes the argument that the president of the United States and his appointees should not be able to act on behalf of the federal government, even though they just won the election, and he gets to appoint the government.
HINOJOSA: It's not. The Department of Justice is not a political tool for the president. And Donald Trump's personal defense lawyer, they work for the president, but they should not be making determinations without the law?
ROCAH: And even if Todd Blanche, if you want to argue that it's appropriate for him to be doing this interview --
JENNINGS: I'm just saying it's not inappropriate.
ROCAH: I disagree with.
HINOJOSA: Yes, it is. ROCAH: But you also just said Maxwell is not credible. Nobody in their right mind could say that Ghislaine Maxwell is credible. She's been charged with perjury. She has been lying and denying these crimes since she was convicted. So, the question isn't only, I mean, I completely agree with you, should Todd Blanche be interviewing her? No. Should anybody, why is anybody meeting her? It is not to make new cases. It is trying to help fix a political problem.
BERMAN: Well, the president said it's to make sure people are not hurt, that people who should not be involved aren't involved.
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Can I say the fastest way to not hurt these survivors, and they're survivors, they're not victims because these women survived the most atrocious behavior possible as children, as little girls, which is what they were when this happened. The fastest way to do that, and I hope you would agree with me, Scott and Shermichael, on this, is for the president to come out and say, I am not going to pardon the woman who did this to you, and yet he has not said that.
And if he cares about not hurting people, the people he should be thinking about not hurting are these women.
[22:10:00]
And the fastest way to not hurt them is to not dangle out there the possibility that this woman who was finally convicted after decades of engaging in this kind of behavior may be walking and now has already been transferred to effectively a club fed after committing these horrific crimes. And who transferred her there? Todd Blanche a week after he sat down and talked to her about whatever you think he talked to her about, Scott, but she got a very sweet deal and got transferred to a very nice cushy jail, prison, as a result, a camp, excuse me, not even a real prison, as a result of all this.
BERMAN: Let me just say two things quickly. Number one, she was transferred to this camp in Texas, which, by all accounts, is very rare for a sex offender to be transferred to a place with that level of security.
And then, Shermichael, before you jump in, I just want to read this re reporting the CNN just, you know, broken hour ago, because it is interesting. Top Trump administration officials will gather at the vice president's Wednesday evening as they continue to weigh whether to publish an audio recording and transcript of Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, his recent conversation with Epstein Accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. They're getting together. J.D. Vance is leading this effort to figure out what to do.
What do you think of this dinner party? What do you think will come from it? Why do you think they need it?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. I mean, if they want to release it, sure, go ahead. Then folks like, you guys can't say that they're trying to hide something or trying to fix whatever the hell they're trying to fix that nobody seems to know from the left.
With that said, there are about a thousand survivors, allegedly, from what we know. It could even be more. We're not sure who were survivors of Epstein and maybe many other individuals, men who were involved and engaged in harming these young girls. I don't trust Ghislaine Maxwell, but if there's some information that could potentially lead to looking for other men. I just find it hard to believe that the single guy alone partook in causing harm to a thousand-plus young girls and there was no other men involved. I don't believe that.
ROGINSKY: I mean, why don't you just ask Ghislaine Maxwell?
SINGLETON: And so I would, at a minimum, like to see what additional information she may have and let's check it out. If she's lying, then you could quickly discover that. If she's telling the truth, then let's just see where it ultimately leads.
ROCAH: Todd Blanche is going to go out and --
SINGLETON: Or is that not the job of the Justice Department?
ROCAH: But it's not his job. He doesn't --
SINGLETON: No, no, I said the Justice Department. I didn't say Todd Blanche particularly.
ROCAH: Yes. But they fired the prosecutor who actually knows the facts of the case. They haven't brought in the FBI agents who know about the case.
SINGLETON: But could you not appoint someone else? Could you not appoint other FBI agents to be involved?
ROCAH: If they release the audio of Todd interviewing Maxwell, people are going to accept whatever she says as truth, at least some portion of the public. And that is not how you conduct an investigation. You don't ask questions. God knows what the questions were, whether she got them in advance, but you don't just release the answers and say, here you go, this is the truth now.
SINGLETON: Yes. Mimi, I would agree with you under the ordinary set of circumstances, but I just heard two arguments here contradicting that statement, saying, well, we don't know why Todd Blanche is meeting with her, and what is he trying to --
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETON: Wait. Let me finish my freaking point please. I know we don't like to do that at this table. If you're going to make that accusation, why in the hell not release what the conversation was about? So, if people are wondering, then you're transparent and let people arrive to whatever conclusion they want instead of making random accusations about, well, maybe he's trying to fix it for Trump, or maybe he's trying to fix it for Trump's friends, or if you release everything, then we can see what the conversation was.
BERMAN: All right, Xochitl, then Julie.
HINOJOSA: Well, I just want to take your point, and I'm not here to argue with you. What I'm here to tell you is that Maxwell had the opportunity to say whether or not someone else is involved. Anytime someone is charged, what happens is that the counsel for that person goes and works with the federal government, the U.S. attorney's office, and they have the opportunity. Maxwell has the opportunity to present any other evidence that she wants, including people that were involved. And you know what? That would end up helping her case, and that would end up helping her prison sentence. It's part of a plea.
And in this instance, it's all of these years later, for some reason, now Maxwell has something to say when Donald Trump has to get something out of it, which is a problem.
ROGINSKY: The Justice Department has the information. They're called 302. They're called witness statements. They're called this trove of evidence that is not part of the grand jury that they could release tomorrow. These survivors may have named some of these men. I don't know.
But if they did, the Justice Department can go ahead and release that tomorrow, but they haven't. And they haven't because they'd rather take the word of Ghislaine Maxwell, who I assure you, if she implicated Donald Trump or anybody Donald Trump cares about, would not have gotten the sweet deal that she just got to be transferred to Texas.
So, we know what she told them in order to get the deal for herself.
BERMAN: Hang on.
ROGINSKY: She wants a pardon. She's going to do whatever it takes to get one. She's been very clear about that. Her attorney's been very clear about that. So, why in the world do I care what Ghislaine Maxwell has to say? She's already committed perjury.
BERMAN: I want to take a quick break here, but I will say this, oh to be a fly on the wall at the Naval Observatory tomorrow night for this meal hosted by J.D. Vance.
Next, Texas is asking the FBI to round up those Democrats who fled the state over gerrymandering and Donald Trump says it may happen.
[22:15:01]
Plus, we're going to speak with Harry Enten, who not only got mentioned by the president, but was also given a new name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you check CNN tomorrow, watch Harry Emden and you'll see about the numbers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: All right. Tonight, will the FBI help Texas go after Democrats who left the state to avoid voting on a new Congressional map? That is the request from Republican Senator John Cornyn, who happens to be in a tough Senate primary, I should note. He sent a letter to the FBI director asking the agencies to assist state law enforcement officials to locate or arrest potential law breakers who have fled the state.
[22:20:02]
And it appears President Trump is on board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you want the federal government and the FBI to help locate and arrest these Texas Democrats who have left the state?
TRUMP: Well, I think they've abandoned the state. Nobody's seen anything like it, even though they've done it twice before. And in a certain way, it almost looks like they've abandoned the state. It looks very bad.
Yes, go ahead, please.
REPORTER: Should the FBI get involved?
TRUMP: Well, they may have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: I want to start with you, Mimi Rocah. As a former prosecutor, is that a thing?
ROCAH: No, the FBI does not have the power to arrest people on what would be civil warrants. I mean, it's as simple as that. So, this is politics. I'll leave it at that. I mean, there just is no legitimate authority for the FBI to do that.
BERMAN: Why ever then is John Cornyn asking for it? Anyone?
ROGINSKY: He's starting to add Paxton, right? I mean --
JENNINGS: They should go to work. Should they not? I mean, they got elected to represent people in Texas, not people in Illinois.
ROGINSKY: So should Congress. Why did they abandon the House to not vote on these Epstein files?
JENNINGS: It's the August recess. And if you're comparing to --
ROGINSKY: No, no, it was not the August.
JENNINGS: Once again, you're showing just how --
(CROSSTALKS) JENNINGS: The reality is they got elected. They got elected to go to work in the Texas State Capitol. They've left the state. They're abandoning their constituents. And if they want to go vote against the map, that's fine, but running off to Illinois, the most gerrymandered state in the country, I mean, I understand no one in the P.R. department at the Texas House Democratic Conference must have been at work that day, but it looks horrific for them.
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: And I want to speak to this because, in full disclosure, my sister was one of the people who fled to Illinois, who's a state representative in Austin. And what I will say about that is that they had to flee. They don't have control.
JENNINGS: Had to flee?
HINOJOSA: Let me tell you, they don't have control of the House or the Senate or the governor's mansion or anything in Texas? But what I will say is that Republicans are trying to take away districts and on the backs of Latino and African American voters in the state. And there are several districts in South Texas where I was born and raised on the border, Houston, Austin, where they are trying to dilute the Latino vote and trying to kick out people, like Greg Casar and their representative, Sylvia Garcia, from Houston. And these are elected leaders that were picked by Latino voters.
And so, yes, I think it is right for the Texas legislators to get up and go. This is not -- the only reason they're doing this is for political purposes, and Trump has set himself over and over that he is only doing this because he wants to pick up seats for the midterm election.
JENNINGS: So, you get elected to represent people in Texas, and your reaction to that is to go to Illinois and hide behind J.B. Pritzker?
HINOJOSA: They're breaking quorum. That's what they're doing. They're breaking quorum because it is not right --
JENNINGS: It's (INAUDIBLE) and it's childish, and it might be criminal.
HINOJOSA: Well, you know which childish and criminal, is Abbott, who is going against the will of the voters by redistricting, not based on census data, but based on Donald Trump's will in order to gain more seats because Donald Trump is scared about losing the House of Representatives because of higher --
BERMAN: Let's take the president his own words here. Let's listen to what he told CNBC this morning about how he feels they're entitled to the five more seats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have an opportunity in Texas to pick up five seats. We have a really good governor and we have good people in Texas, and I won Texas. I got the highest vote in the history of Texas, as you probably know. And we are entitled to five more seats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: It's not actually true about Texas. Be that as it may, Shermichael, redistricting happens at the beginning of a decade.
SINGLETON: Sure.
BERMAN: It doesn't happen in the middle of a decade. That's what's different here. This is a -- not like this. Not like this.
SINGLETON: It's different --
ROGINSKY: When the courts force it.
BERMAN: When it's a court-ordered redistricting. This is Donald Trump asking for five more seats, and Greg Abbott trying to make it happen. It's different. You just have to admit this is qualitatively different.
SINGLETON: So, let's say you accept the argument that it's different. Is this an anomaly? No. Illinois, heavily gerrymandered, New York, where we are, heavily gerrymandered.
BERMAN: New York is actually not (INAUDIBLE).
SINGLETON: Okay. So, let me rephrase. There are more Democrats in control here in terms of House seats than Republicans. California, more Democrats than there are. This is not an anomaly. That alone, though, I want to look at this through the political lens.
Democrats, they've done this twice. Running to Illinois, to me, does not suggest or signal to your voters that you're fighters, that you're showcasing strength. I think -- I'm not a Democrat, but I would imagine if you were to ask the average Democratic voter across the country, they would probably say, I want to see my party fight instead of running and fleeing. And that's why Republicans, I would argue, continue to kick Democrats butt electorally because they're running from every single fight and not doing a good enough service for their constituents.
[22:25:00]
But I say continue because I don't think this is going to benefit them in midterms next year.
ROGINSKY: Scott's mentioned the August recess. Republicans left not in August. They left in July. They left several weeks early. You could laugh and smirk. Yes, they did, Scott.
JENNINGS: Several weeks? It's a lie.
BERMAN: It's not a -- Scott, it's not a lie. Actually, you said August recess. They left in July. And they left in July and they said they left in July because they didn't want to vote on the Epstein matter. They didn't want to vote to release the Epstein files. And so now you're saying, the senators and the reps down in Texas have to do their job because what are they scared of? But what are you guys scared of in terms of staying in Washington? What's the difference.
SINGLETON: Do you think -- you're a Democrat. I'm not. Do you think Democrats who vote for these people in Texas want to see them running or fighting? That's just a simple, a question.
HINOJOSA: Let me -- I just want to clear up where Democrats are with the redistricting fight. What they want is an independent commission. Texas Democrats introduced legislation in Texas that, of course went nowhere because Republicans don't want an independent commission. What is there in California? An independent commission, Democrats would prefer a fair process, an independent commission.
No, it is.
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: They wanted an independent commission. And the only reason that they're doing this is because Texas Republicans are not playing it fair to Texans. And they're trying to rig the system ahead of the midterm election. President Trump said that.
(CROSSTALKS)
SINGLETONS: And it's not going to benefit you guys next year.
JENNINGS: Regarding California, Republicans get about 40 percent of the vote and they have 17 percent are the Congressional seats, so not a great example. But number two, if it's rigging in the election, that's your words, in Texas, is it going to be rigging the election when all these Democrats who say they're going to gerrymander in the other state? Are you also going to argue that they're rigging the election or just in Texas? Have the elections been rigged in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, New Mexico, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Rhode Island? Have they been rigged there as well? Because there, the proportion of Republican vote comes nowhere near what they have in Congress.
HINOJOSA: They did a normal redistricting process. If states end up going and calling special sessions in doing all of these things to try to gain seats, I agree. I don't agree with that. Do I think they need to do it? Absolutely, because if Republicans aren't going to play fair, then Democrats aren't going to play fair. And that's the fight that we have to have right now.
SINGLETON: But Democrats aren't playing fair in some of the states --
BERMAN: All right, we'll see what happens when every state starts redistricting every year, every two years, where that leaves us. It's going to be chaos going forward. Thank you all. Mimi, thank you so much for being with us, great to see you.
Next, Donald Trump is now praising the very same jobs numbers he calls rigged and fired someone over. Another special guest will join the table. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:32:30]
BERMAN: All right, tonight it appears President Trump has had a bad memory when it comes to what happened around his election win in November. Let's start with this claim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE KERNEN, CNBC HOST: Where do you get the notion that it's rigged or do you have any evidence there?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (on the phone): Well, it is antiquated but it's also very political. And you know, I had an election recently where I did very well and yet I had to go through hell. And it just days before the election, they put out numbers that it was like the country was on fire, was doing so well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's not true. Four days before the election, the jobs report showed the economy had added an abysmal 12,000 jobs in September, well below expectations, actually in October. "Politico" even called it a scary jobs report. But Trump didn't stop there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (on the phone): Then they did a revision about two weeks later and the revision was down by almost 900,000 jobs. You remember that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Again, not true. The Donald revision that Trump was talking about there was actually 818,000 jobs, not 900,000. And that report came out in August -- August 21st, two and a half months before the election, not two weeks after it. And then there was this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (on the phone): After I won the election, I said too big to rig. But after I won the election, then they announced a downward number, in other words, to bring it back to reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: No. Say it with me. Wrong. The next jobs report a month after the election revised both the September and October numbers up, increasing the jobs added 32,000 and 24,000 jobs respectively. Wrong not once, not twice, but three times. And as the old saying goes, three wrongs do not make a right.
Joining us now in our fifth seat at the table is Caleb Silver, editor- in-chief of Investopedia. It's great to see you.
CALEB SILVER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, INVESTOPEDIA: Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
BERMAN: The President's confused about numbers. I mean, just as matter of fact here, his timeline is wrong.
SILVER: Yeah, nothing true about any of the things that he said. And these numbers are not just rigged, they're inaccurate in general. He's calling them rigged. But the jobs report and the surveys that we do, they've been inaccurate for a long time. The fact that we have revisions of this size tells us that the methodology is wrong.
The response rate, John, to the -- to the employment survey, the household survey, the establishment survey, these are going down and down every single month. So, what are we surveying? Who are we surveying?
[22:35:00]
Plus, we collect these in the first half of the month anyway, or the Labor Department does. So, these have been wrong for a long time. But wrong in whose favor? And it's not just that it's confusing. It just erodes the trust we have in the data we're getting.
And now, if Trump actually has fired the commissioner of the BLS for this discretion -- indiscretion, so to speak, we're going to trust these numbers even less. And trust is at the heart of the capital markets. You saw what happened in the stock market last Friday. Look what's happening with the dollar and the treasuries right now. Trust in our capital markets is eroding.
BERMAN: Scott, do you think if the President knew that it was a bad jobs report that came out right before the election, he would rehire the commissioner of Bureau of Labor Statistics?
JENNINGS: Look, what I think he is upset about and I think everybody should be worried about is that for a very long time now and I agree with you, there's something wrong with the way we collect this information. It comes out -- we all cover it like it's a news story, but then months later it gets revised making it not a news story at all.
BERMAN: Is it political?
JENNINGS: And so, I don't know. But --
BERMAN: Do you think it's political?
JENNINGS: I don't know. She was a Biden appointee. I don't know.
BERMAN: Do you think the Trump appointee is a political --
JENNINGS: Here's what I -- here's what I think we ought to do. We ought to put somebody in who is committed to updating the way we do this and to modernizing the way we do it, so that every month when we report the jobs data, people can rely on it. Look what happened. There are consequences. Had the Fed known about the downward revisions of the previous months, there's no doubt they would have -- (CROSSTALK)
SILVER: Ironically, this might have been what the President wanted all along. You've got a weak jobs report. The fact that we may get a rate cut in September, the percentages have gone way up since --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Well, my point is we might have already gotten it had the revisions come before the Fed met before. So, there are actual real- world consequences when these things are wrong and then months later you get these revisions. And so, it, you know, he's got a point about needing to be better at this. We've not been very good at it for a long time.
BERMAN: No, he didn't. He was -- he was making up facts there about the timeline leading into the election. That's just, you know, true.
HINOJOSA: Well, just to answer your questions since Scott wouldn't answer it. No, the jobs report is not political. I worked at the Labor Department. You get the career. I know we all don't like career employees here at this table for some reason because they are non- partisan and they don't do what the President wants.
But the jobs report is collected. Information is collected and compiled by career appointees and it is not necessarily handled by the political appointees. Your briefed on it the night before, the morning of, but it is not political in any way. And this is how distress happens.
What I'll also say is this doesn't surprise me about Donald Trump. Every time something doesn't go his way, it's never his fault. It's never about -- it's always someone else's fault. The jobs report -- fired BLS director. He commits two crimes, is indicted by a grand jury. DOJ is political.
He creates unease in the economy because of tariffs -- it's all Powell. So, we are seeing this with Donald Trump and he always does this where tries to distract when it is his fault and it's his policies that are making this impact.
BERMAN: Let's just look at the subjectivity of how Donald Trump handles these numbers because there are times when he's really like them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (on the phone): Highly political situation. It's totally rigged. Smart people know it. People with common sense know it.
BECKY QUICK, CNBC HOST: Okay, but if you look at the jobs report last week, it did show a 1.7 million drop off of foreign born workers from March to July.
TRUMP (on the phone): That's a great number, by the way. That's a great number. (CROSSTALK)
QUICK: Yeah, well, the past three --
TRUMP (on the phone): Because it means we're putting Americans to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, so we like some numbers, doesn't like some numbers. Caleb, just to be clear, what tends to be more accurate, the revision or the original number?
SILVER: The revisions are always a little more accurate because they're Monday morning quarterbacking. And like I said, they take these surveys in the first two weeks of every month. A lot happens in these months and a lot has happened in the past six months just in the labor market in general.
And we went from a relatively strong labor market with almost full employment of 4.1 percent. We're just at 4.2 right now. But when you look at the revisions and the replacement numbers, we're not even hiring people at the replacement numbers, which is about 100,000. Why? Because a lot of those jobs went to immigrant workers.
BERMAN: Again, but and that's what I think we're missing here in all of this. The revised numbers which do tend to be more accurate, they're two months, Just anemic growth here, which really paints a new picture. So, for all the fighting over how the numbers are kept here, the numbers that we have every reason to believe are more accurate and most current, show an economic situation. That's a bit of a problem.
ROGINSKY: But here's the problem for the economy going forward. You have a President and this is a pattern. You have a president that says, find me X number of votes in Georgia because I need to win that state. I want it, but you have to find me the votes to make that happen or make that be a reality. Find me five seats in Texas, right? Because I need those five seats. I'm entitled to them.
Now, he's asking people to effectively find him more jobs that don't exist because he needs that for his narrative. Now, we're starting to have this kind of spin and this kind of distrust of the economy. And Caleb, you're so right but that's going to end up -- what's going to end up happening is we're going to have South American type numbers coming out where nobody -- the markets are not going to trust these numbers.
[22:40:03]
The bond markets are not going to trust these numbers. The dollar, as you said, look at what's happening to the dollar right now. What that's going to mean is that we're going to have no faith either here at home or abroad in our financial system.
The greatest financial system in the world is now going to be subject to effectively a president saying, find me these numbers here, the way you had to find me numbers in Georgia, the way you to find me numbers in Texas.
SILVER: Yes, a lot of businesses and companies make decisions based on --
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: Of course.
(CROSSTALK)
SILVER: -- these numbers. So, we're talking about the foundation of our capital.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGINSKY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Do you think the President believes that it was a really great jobs report just days before the election?
SINGLETON: I don't know what the President believed, I haven't spoken to the President. But what I do know is I think the methodology is outdated. I think the market self corrects. It fluctuates. Anyone who owns a business can tell you that.
I would also say Goldman Sachs had a report that came out, believe, two or three days ago that suggested that the economic activity in terms of investment and potential growth long term, particularly if you start looking into Q1 and Q2 of 2026, actually looks pretty darn good.
So, from my perspective, as someone who runs a new startup is running a business, people that I'm talking to as I'm meeting with investors and other individuals who are running companies are very excited about what's to come. Do we want a little more stability? Absolutely. No one's going to deny that. But so far, nobody's freaking out about what they're seeing so far. People who are really running businesses and who are giving out money to entrepreneurs like myself for start-ups.
BERMAN: We'll see. We will see what the Fed thinks about these jobs numbers come September. Next, in that same interview, the President said inner-city Americans won't do farm work, so he'll be making an exception for undocumented migrants. Why? Because he says they're naturals at it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:13]
BERMAN: All right, tonight President Trump is suggesting a special pass for undocumented farm workers, something his base might not particularly like. Here's his reason.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We're taking care of our farmers. We can't let our farmers not have anybody -- you know, these are -- these people, they are -- you can't replace them very easily. You know, people that live in the inner city are not doing that work. They're just not doing that work. And they've tried, we've tried, everybody tried. They don't do it.
These people do it naturally, naturally. I said what happens if they get it to a farmer the other day? What happens if they get a bad back? He said, they don't get a bad back, Sir, because if they get a bad back, they die. I said, that's interesting, isn't it? You know, these are very -- you know, it --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: But Mr. President --
TRUMP: -- in many ways, they're very, very special people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Xochitl, what's he saying there, that these people do it naturally?
HINOJOSA: I mean, it's unhinged. It's offensive. What he has said there, my hope is that Republicans will speak out against it. It's trying to target migrant immigrants and speaking as if they're only useful to Donald Trump for one job, you know? I think part of his comments, as well, we're talking about how he wants to help the farmers. What I find interesting is his deportation policies actually hurt the farmers.
So, he's admitting that his policies hurt farmers and are hurting farm workers. He could put a stop to all of this. He could end up stopping those deportations of farm workers. He could end up stop doing raids the way that he has been doing them.
But instead, you're hearing this rhetoric that, unfortunately, Republicans are not speaking out against and these are not animals, they are not objects. These are human beings with families who have fled countries, they have fled dangerous conditions. And so, my hope is that Republicans will speak out.
BERMAN: Caleb, there is an economic reality going on in agriculture, yes?
SILVER: Yeah, it's a one and a $1.5 trillion industry. It's about 5.5 percent of U.S. GDP. We're really finding out who the essential workers really are in this economy. When you look at what's supporting the farm industry and food prices, when you're about to see tariffs potentially coming from Mexico and Canada, which are big exporters of produce to the United States.
And our farm system is about to be under a lot of pressure, you're seeing what's important right now and it shows you an anti-immigration policy that wasn't very well thought through at the beginning of all of a sudden there might be these clawbacks or this touchback program that might be potentially proposed.
BERMAN: Scott, you said the Republicans should apologize for the fact that President said that migrants do this work naturally.
JENNINGS: Well, he, first of all, he said they're very special people. He obviously knows exactly how hard they're working when they get here.
HINOJOSA: Scott, Scott --
JENNINGS: He's trying to find -- he's trying to find --
HINOJOSA: Scott, he's like, no one else does it.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Did he not? We literally just played it. We literally just played it.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: He's treating them like objects. Are you really going to have this conversation?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I'm quoting the President. He said they're very special people. Did he not?
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: That is not what he -- that's not what Donald Trump --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Did he say it or not?
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Yeah, at the end he said they're very special people.
HINOJOSA: Donald Trump is treating migrants like objects. And I don't -- I hope, my hope --
JENNINGS: Come on.
HINOJOSA: -- Scott, is that you do not agree with that.
JENNINGS: Here's what they're trying to figure out. You said, you know, he's got to deal with his base on this. You know, he does have immigration hardliners in his base. He also has farmers and agriculture people and rural people who live in agriculture communities in his base that have been talking to him about this. You do have some competing interest here.
It sounds like what they're trying to come up with possibly, and I know it's under discussion, is a way for deportations to occur, but they're, you know, it's like a touchback program. These people maybe get a special waiver to come and do agricultural work. I know they're talking about expanding the H2A program to possibly include dairy farmers, as well. But it's obviously not completed internally, yet they're still debating this out.
I don't know how it's going to turn out but obviously, he's hearing from two groups -- the immigration hardliners. But at the same time, the farmers and the agriculture community have clearly gotten his ear and made some compelling cases to him.
[22:50:02]
ROGINSKY: What about the home health aides? What about the other people who are doing back-breaking labor who are undocumented immigrants here, right? So, why are we singling out one group of people?
If you think that undocumented immigration is a huge problem and this President ran an entire campaign based on that, his entire political career is based on that, then why are you protecting one class of undocumented migrants while putting others in Alligator Alcatraz, while separating them from their native born children, while deporting them to places like Seacot, and so on so forth, right?
Because this is not about anything other than cruelty and about what's best for Donald Trump. He is treating these people like commodities, and they are human beings and they are people. And yet, they're being commoditized to do the quote-unquote," back-breaking work".
I would also love to know who he's referring to when he talks about inner city people. I think we all know what that little dog whistle is all about. But apparently, those people, as he would term them, don't want to do that kind of back-breaking work -- why not? And who are they that he's referring to? So, much of this is racist. And it's not even a dog whistle, it's just overtly racist.
HINOJOSA: Yeah.
ROGINSKY: And the reality is that we are specifically taking an entire group of people and making them into commodities -- into commodities. That is not -- what -- this is not what the United States is about. This is not what this country is about. It never has been, not since slavery, at least, was eradicated. And now we have a President who's very much treating these people like they're not people, like they're not human beings.
BERMAN: Shermichael, we've got 30 seconds left.
SINGLETON: Look, I'm not interested in -- if inner city people, let's just say you're talking about black people because predominantly we represent inner city people. I'm not interested in black people working on farms. I'm interested in black people getting opportunities in STEM. We've dominated the arts and entertainment. We've dominated politics. We've got to dominate STEM. We've got to dominate the financial sector. We need to see an improvement and increase in our numbers and black
entrepreneurship. That's what I want to see Republicans focus on. That's what I think the country needs to focus on. We've been there, we've done that. Now, it's time to move the needle forward for black people in this country. Again, particularly in business and finance. That's what I want to talk about. That's what I want to see the needle moving forward on.
BERMAN: All right.
SINGLETON: All this other stuff is noise to me. That's not going to make a difference for black people in this country. Finance, entrepreneurship, coupled with the arts, coupled with politics, is how we continue to move forward. If we rise, the rest of the country rises with us.
BERMAN: All right, thank you, one and all, for being part of this tonight. Appreciate it. Next, Harry Enten joins me for his reaction to the President praising him and his numbers and also renaming him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (on the phone): If you check CNN tomorrow, watch 'Harry Emden" and you'll see about the numbers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:14]
BERMAN: Tonight, check CNN. That's a quote from President Trump who also gave a shout out to a friend of the show while spinning his polling. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERNEN: Over our poll numbers --you don't have the best you ever had in overall poll numbers -- you know, I cited one of those, so --
TRUMP (on the phone): I have the best -- I have the best poll numbers I've ever had.
(CROSSTALK)
KERNEN: -- among Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP (on the phone): I have poll numbers where I'm 71 percent. I have the best poll numbers of --those are among the among Republicans. You know --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP (on the phone): No, no. Among Republicans, I'm at 94 and 95 percent. Now, I'm talking about generally. I have the -- let me put it this way. There was a gentleman on "Harry Emden" yesterday on CNN and he went crazy over how well Trump was doing.
Now, you know, you don't put that on because I think CBS is a shade -- actually, CNN is a shade better than NBC. I think NBC is probably the worst of them all. But if you check CNN tomorrow, watch Harry Emden and you'll see about the numbers. But that's okay. We have to defend ourselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, we don't have to wait until tomorrow. With us now is Harry Enten -- Enten. We couldn't find "Harry Emden". Harry Enten, it's great to see you. What does it feel like?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, it could have been far worse. You know, I am thinking of going down to the courthouse in New York when I get back to change my name. That was what some of my friends suggested. I also think it could have been that he could have given me a nickname, right? I could have been "Low Energy Harry".
But there are good things about this. It gave me an excuse to contact my mother, which I don't do quite nearly enough. And you know what? He recognizes -- the President of the United States -- that we give a fair shake on CNN whether it be "NewsNight" here or CNC News Central from seven to 10 A.M. I'm usually on in the 8 o'clock hour.
BERMAN: Which is why if we did give you a nickname Harry, it would be "Sweet Cheeks". We appreciate the plug there for the morning show.
ENTEN: Oh, thank you.
BERMAN: Listen, was the President correct about the polling, though?
ENTEN: No, I don't think the President was correct. You know, I give him a fair shake. I don't give him a positive spin. The -- look, he is not at the highest point he's ever been. Take a look at his net approval rating where it is right now. It's negative. He's underwater, right? You compare that to where he was at the beginning of this term, he was six points above water. Now, he's nine points below water.
If we are as -- comparing him to other presidents at this point in their presidency, he is -- he is the second lowest on record compared only to himself who does worse. If we're comparing him to other second terms, he's certainly in the bottom of the list -- not nearly all the way at the bottom. Richard Nixon was at a worse position at this point.
But when you're comparing yourself to Richard Nixon and you're saying that you're doing better than Richard Nixon in your second term, that's not exactly a good position to be in.
[23:00:00]
BERMAN: "Harry Sweet Cheeks Emden", great to see you tonight. Thanks so much for being with us. And thank you all for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
