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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Says, Epstein Files are Total Bullsh*t Pushed by Democrats; Dinner to Discuss Epstein Appears to Have Moved Amid Scrutiny; Trump Claims Costs are Down, Contradicting His Government's Stats. Trump Allegedly Considers Using His Voice To Battle Mamdani; Confederacy Trends Again In The Form Of Two Statues. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 06, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, his base demanded answers. They fed and bred conspiracies, but now --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Trying to divert attention to something that's total bullshit.
BERMAN: Why Donald Trump is now telling them nothing to see here.
Plus --
TRUMP: I watched this group of people on CNN. All costs have gone up. Costs haven't gone up. They've gone down first.
BERMAN: First, thanks for watching. Second, is he right?
Also, the president may be hungry for a slice of Gotham's mayoral race, as his administration turns its fire on the socialist.
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: That is not justice. It is cruelty and it is criminal.
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: If he were elected, New York City would be a train wreck.
BERMAN: And the Confederate statues toppled during America's racial reckoning are now rising again in MAGA's war on woke.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Tara Setmayer, Brad Todd, Nina Turner, and Van Lathan.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Good evening. I'm John Berman in New York in for Abby Philip. And let's get right to what America is talking about, bullshit. That's what Donald Trump is calling the story that MAGA built up for years, alleging conspiracy after conspiracy in the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. And now he and his White House suddenly don't want the public to see the files they teased and promised for months, maybe because he was told his name is in those files. In what context? That's unclear.
But regardless, here is his message to his base.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, the whole thing is a hoax. It's put out by the Democrats because we've had the most successful six months in the history of our country, and that's just a way of trying to divert attention to something that's total bullshit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Also. Tonight, a dinner meeting that was supposed to be at the vice president's residence appears to have been moved or rescheduled after it was put under the spotlight, maybe moved because CNN reported the group was supposed to talk about Epstein strategy, to address questions like should they release the files. What about the tape of the DOJs Ghislaine Maxwell interview? What's the explanation behind Maxwell's mysterious and highly unusual move to a cushier prison? And what about the victim's alleging a cover-up?
So President Trump calls questions about the Epstein files something that is total bullshit, just a reminder of a few of the people who, by the president's definition, have been full of bullshit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you declassify the Epstein files?
TRUMP: Yes. Yes, I would.
I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pedorist (ph), the largest scale pedorist in human history?
KASH PATEL, DIRECTOR, FBI: Simple, because of who's on that list.
Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think tomorrow, Jesse, breaking news right now, you're going to see some Epstein information being released by my office.
It's sitting on my desk right now to review.
A truckload of evidence arrived. It's now in the possession of the FBI.
It's a new day, it's a new administration, and everything's going to come out to the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, I do want to stipulate that my wife once gave me this bar of soap to wash my mouth out when I got caught swearing on T.V.
With that in mind, Scott Jennings, we just heard the clip there, why is J.D. Vance so concerned with bullshit?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm going to apologize to my 11-year-old who's in the green room trying to watch this show right now for our potty talk tonight.
BERMAN: Well, the president's potty talk, let's be fair.
JENNINGS: Well, you've certainly --
BERMAN: I'm so sorry for repeating the president of the United States.
JENNINGS: So, look, here's the deal. I don't know what they're going to do. I know that the dinner they were supposed to be having, they say the vice president directly says was not about Epstein. I don't know if they've made any decisions. I don't know what they're planning to do. I didn't know what they were planning to do last night either. Nothing has changed in the last 24 hours.
[22:05:00]
And so I assume at some point they're going to have to release some information. I assume at some point the members of the Republican leadership in Congress are going to have to decide how to handle a vote when they come back in September. But we're having the same conversation tonight that we had last night, that we had Friday, that we had Thursday, that we had Wednesday, and so on and so forth. And I think the president has a point. It's because nobody wants to talk about the good things that are happening in the country, so we're diverting into this.
BERMAN: I will say one of the reasons we're talking about it's because the deputy attorney general spent two days talking to a woman convicted of conspiring to sexually abused minors with Jeffrey Epstein.
JENNINGS: When? How many weeks ago?
BERMAN: He talked to her for two days, hasn't released what he talked about, and the president today called that a hoax.
TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT: Listen, I find it pretty interesting that folks are feigning outrage over how long we're talking about this, because it's been a couple of weeks, self- inflicted by the president of the United States and his MAGA grifters who made podcasting careers out of demanding the Epstein files would be released. Now, those people are in positions of power that they could actually release the Epstein files, and all of a sudden, oh wait a minute it's on the desk. It's not on the desk. It's a hoax. It's not, it's Democrat's fault, but it's bullshit now. It's -- I mean, they can't get their lies straight, so that's why we're still here. And yet, the survivors who were victimized by Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein have had to live with this for 30 years, 30 years.
So, you know what, too bad if it's uncomfortable for people in MAGA world and for Republicans to have to keep defending this because the survivors of these heinous acts and of these monsters have had to endure this for decades and they deserve justice. And, unfortunately, only since the last couple of days have the survivors actually been given some agency and their voices are beginning to be heard where it really should be about them and justice for them, not for Donald Trump and his MAGA world, trying to figure out ways to cover his behind because they have -- they're the ones who have been lying to the American people and protecting predators.
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I agree with you that the victims should be the people who we are all focused on, and everyone who perpetrated a crime here should be punished to the full extent of the law, whether they have been punished yet or not. We should all be able to agree on that.
But what I want to know is why have House Democrats not been so insistent on this for the last four years? When Merrick Garland was the attorney general and when Joe Biden was president, they suddenly got interested in it like two weeks ago.
FMR. STATE SEN. NINA TURNER (D-OH): No, they should have been, unless I will confess that they should have been. And I agree. The victims should be centered. We shouldn't be protecting power for pedophiles. And it is a legitimate question to ask where were the Democrats. This shouldn't be a partisan issue. It could be political, but it shouldn't be partisan. We should care about girls and younger women who were sexually abused and bring all of those people, whether they're Democrats or Republicans on the list, bring them to justice. So, absolutely, where were the Democrats?
VAN LATHAN, PODCAST CO-HOST, HIGHER LEARNING: I think the sticking point here is that the Epstein files, Jeffrey Epstein, all of this was made a core piece of mythology from the right, a core piece of mythology, one of their -- the most solid books in their Bible because it was an example of the depth of the deep state, how much we had been taking over by bureaucracy, how much that bureaucracy was covering up for rich and powerful people, and Donald Trump and Kash Patel and Dan Bongino and all those people were supposed to come in and take a sledgehammer to that, and they don't want to do it. And no amount of obfuscating, no amount of distraction is going to change the fact that they don't want to do it. And the answer is why?
To be honest with you, the Democrats and everybody, culturally, we turned our eye away from this. It's definitely true. It's true. But, you know, just to be real with you, it's becoming more of a thing because of the hesitancy to deal with it. You're starting to wonder what the hell is going on.
BERMAN: Yes. Talk to me more about that. Because I'm not -- to the extent that the Epstein situation wasn't in the mainstream before, Van, do you think it's more in the mainstream now?
LATHAN: Well, when I was on TMZ and Epstein passed away, I actually got in trouble because I said it was the most bipartisan accomplishment that Washington had in a generation, right? He had his hands in everything. Everyone was around. I saw a picture of him from the Times with him and Fidel Castro, they're laughing, having fun, like what's going on? People are now starting to concoct and invent scenarios about the depth of this because the government is obviously not keeping it straight with the people.
And at a certain point, you know, the president can say whatever he wants to say, but I think he's reached the limit of how much his supporter is going to take from him without holding him accountable.
BERMAN: Can I ask you, Brad, one thing? You said you want to hold, you know, punish everyone to the full extent of the law. Does that include Ghislaine Maxwell who just got this highly mysterious move to a literal prison camp in Texas, which is way cushier by all accounts, you know, a country club, I read, you know, like atmosphere in one of the papers? You have to get super high approval to get moved there.
[22:10:01]
Is that being punished to the full extent of the law?
TODD: Well, certainly, we can't release a lot of things because the courts won't let them, like grand jury testimony cannot be released. They've asked the courts to do that. They can't do it.
So, what's the next best thing? Talk to somebody, even someone who's culpable, and Ghislaine Maxwell is definitely culpable, see if she will divulge details that we don't know that we could make public. If they have to move her from prison A to prison B to get her to talk to release more details, I'm okay with that.
SETMAYER: I'm saying this is outrageous all. First of all, just to reemphasize how outrageous it is that she was moved from a medium security prison to a prison camp, I worked on commutations and pardons when I was a Congressional staffer. I've actually been to these types of facilities. And I can tell you when I was advocating for Border Patrol agents who were unjustly prosecuted and facing 11 and 12 years in prison, they were not a threat, they were not go going to abscond and trying to get them moved closer to their family, to a prison camp, required virtually an act of the president. The Bureau of Prisons was not trying to do it. It didn't matter. So, this was something that was clearly done as a favor.
Why is the president of the United States in this administration doing favors for a convicted child sex trafficker? I did -- that is the answer that should be asked every single day. He cannot --
TODD: Is he doing it -- so are they doing it so that perhaps she will give more information?
SETMAYER: She's had plenty of opportunity to do that. She's also been convicted of perjury. She's going to say and do whatever she needs to --
BERMAN: She was never convicted of perjury. Two things, one, you know, the prosecutor said that she committed perjury. They didn't go and prosecute her of that. And for what it's worth, the president says he didn't know. He didn't know anything about her.
SETMAYER: Just give me a break. He knows how much paint is being painted in the White House. You're telling me he doesn't know what's going on with someone like this who he's known for decades? That's bullshit.
JENNINGS: So, we have lots of speeches about how we got to protect the victims. If there's one person who we can get to who might be able to provide information that could bring people to justice, you don't want them to talk --
SETMAYER: Wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. The credibility of this person, who is -- who --
JENNINGS: So, you don't want all the information?
SETMAYER: No. I would love all the information. And you know where that is? You know where that is? That's in the files that the FBI and the Justice Department --
JENNINGS: You don't think she might have something to say?
SETMAYER: She's going to say whatever she needs to because Donald Trump has control over her freedom. So, I'm sorry, what she has to say is irrelevant at this point. It's what the credibility of what she has to say is garbage. Where you can find that information is in the files that the Department of Justice, that Pam Bondi could release right now, today, like nothing to do with the courts.
LATHAN: Are you aware of what the victims themselves say in regards to how they feel about Maxwell's release or pardon?
TODD: No, it's not release or pardon.
LATHAN: Well, no. What they --
(CROSSTALKS)
LATHAN: But, listen, what they have talked about is the very direct ways that Maxwell victimized them. And she's a criminal, right. So, what I'm saying --
JENNINGS: She should be talked to for information. That's the argument.
LATHAN: Like rather, then add something on to it and introduce a new component into it, release what we have. Like release what we have so that people can see it and make their own minds up about what's untoward, what's criminal or what's not. Bringing her in so that she compared what people want her to say and then rewarding her for abusing young women for decades is ridiculous.
TURNER: It's untenable. And big ups to people like Representative Ro Khanna, Rep. Massie and Rep. Summer Lee, at least they're continuing to push this issue. All of America should be outraged by this.
BERMAN: All right. And big props to all of you who did not swear unlike, you know, Tara and me and the president of the United States.
LATHAN: It's still early.
BERMAN: It is still early. We have to have an open mindset.
All right, next is more tariffs are coming tomorrow, the president's claims the prices are down. We will fact check and discuss.
Plus, reports tonight that the president's considering joining the fight against New York's socialist candidate, but will that help or hurt Zohran Mamdani's chances?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
BERMAN: Tonight, President Trump is taking another bite out of Apple, the tech giant vowing to invest more inside the United States, as more nations face the president's tariffs, the president is now threatening to place a 100 percent tariff on imported chips and semiconductors that Apple will now be exempt from. But some who will not be exempt, at least from all of it, American consumers. Listen to this claim by the president tonight about the economy and prices in general.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And they say costs are up. No, no. Costs are down. Gasoline is down. It's going to soon, I believe, be less than $2 a gallon. And the price of groceries are down.
Well, eggs are down, everything's down. Price is down. The only thing that's up is stock prices.
Watch this group of people on CNN and MSDNC too, the same thing, where they say, well, costs have gone up. Costs haven't gone up. They've gone down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right. Quick reality check before we discuss average gas prices, while they are down, nowhere near below $2. In fact, the lowest average in Mississippi is above $2.70. From May to June, from his government statistics, the price of groceries are up. That includes coffee, steak, chicken, apples and oranges. Also more expensive clothing, furniture, electronics, and toys. there are prices that are lower or steadier, dairy, cereal, new cars, airfare and lodging.
And because eggs always seem to be a political, football, prices are at their lowest since November. However, they're higher than they were a year ago. They're also higher than at any point from March of 2023 to August of last year. And overall, all items in June compared to the same month a year ago have increased 2.7 percent. Food prices specifically are up 3 percent.
[22:20:02]
Nina, I could see you nodding when the president was making his claim about prices.
TURNER: The president hasn't been to the grocery store and God knows how long. He doesn't know. He's just listening to either the voices in his head or what people are telling him. You know, A.P. just did a poll. 86 percent of Americans are stressed, their language, stressed about the cost of living. They're just absolutely stressed about it, stressed about housing, stressed about food, stressed about their jobs. So, what the President is saying is the antithesis of what we're hearing on the streets.
And to me, the Republicans are really taking a bad page from the Democrats. I remember Bidenomics, Bidenomics. Bidenomics is working. Bidenomics is working. Well, it wasn't working. Everyday people were telling Democrats that it wasn't working, and I see the Republicans falling into that same trap.
BERMAN: Karl Rove saying exactly the same thing, Karl Rove on T.V.
TURNER: Well, God bless the day that Karl Rove and I would agree on something, yes, but, no. In the streets he needs to talk to some people in the streets who really have to make a decision about whether or not they can afford their prescription drugs or whether or not they can pay their rent, their mortgage, or their food cost.
BERMAN: Scott?
JENNINGS: Prices did go up massively during the Biden administration. They went up to a huge number. Now, inflation, core inflation has come down. It was a little below market expectations, in fact. As you noted, some prices are up for some things. Some prices are down for others. Gas prices are, in fact, down. The president is just now implementing his economic strategy. He's got his trade strategy. The Congress just implemented the big, beautiful bill, setting tax rates, making them permanent, extending other tax cuts to working class Americans. They're going to have a year-and-a-half to implement this strategy and see if it works.
And what happens in next year's elections will largely turn on whether the American people believe we are on the correct trajectory. Not that they're necessarily expecting everything to be solved at that moment, but if they think we're on the right path, that his policies are a better trajectory than the Biden policies, I think Republicans have a chance to have -- TURNER: Scott, the midterms are informative. Just one point, they will be informative. I agree with you on that. However, there are some people in this country who can't wait another year. They're stressed right now. They don't have the luxury to wait. So --
TODD: The government can control four things, taxes, regulations, interest rates, and energy costs. Energy costs are down, taxes are going to stay. They're not going to go up or go down. Regulations are down. Interest rates, we're waiting on Jerome Powell to give us the interest rate cuts that everyone else in the western world has done. Those are the things that the government can control to drive those costs down. This administration --
BERMAN: You left out tariffs which --
(CROSSTALKS)
TODD: Wait a minute. If you use the threat of tariffs to lower foreign barriers to American goods, that's good for prices. That's good for prices.
BERMAN: PCE up to, you know, 2.7 percent higher than expectations last month.
SETMAYER: That is correct. The problem here is that the elephant in the room are the tariffs and the instability and the erratic nature of Trump's tariff policy. It's never worked. I mean, I was a Republican for 27 years, and before Donald Trump tariffs were a big no-no, except in very isolated circumstances, because we actually believed in global free markets and the free market and all of that. That's out the window now.
Now, what's also interesting is that American people, including Donald Trump's own people, do not like what's happening with the tariffs because they feel the tax on the consumer. The American people pay the tariff. It is a tax. Democrats have a huge opportunity because, yes, it is going to be up to how they feel, is it in the right direction? Right now, it's not.
And there's nothing beautiful about people losing their healthcare, about small businesses, small business owners losing their, you know, benefits and their labor force. There's nothing beautiful about kids with cancer losing their -- you know, their health aids like the big, beautiful bill is a betrayal, and Donald Trump is betraying his own people. You know what else is down? Wages. Wages were at 4.8 percent last year under Biden. Now they're down to 3.7 for the lowest percentile of workers in this country, and that's according to the Atlanta Fed.
So, that's not a good thing for those people who are Donald -- a lot of Donald Trump's voters who are in that lower percentile, they're going to feel the -- what's happening to them. It's not good.
LATHAN: So there's another part of this, to your point, about what government can control. That's not what the president told people. That's not what he said. He didn't say that. He said, I have the elixir to your economic problems. I'll get in there on day one, you'll start seeing it. And it looked like it's a lie. It looks like he's overpromising.
TURNER: Big, beautiful lie.
LATHAN: Underdeliver.
SETMAYER: Right, betrayal.
LATHAN: And so the reality is you have people that are going through economic strife, the same economic strife they were going through probably last year at this time. That's fair point. But at the same time, they voted for an elixir. They voted for an antidote, and that's not what they're getting. As a matter of fact, they're getting more uncertainty. It's going to be really, really, really hard for people who are jobless to care about lower prices, especially when their SNAP is gone too.
[22:25:06]
So it seems to me that he has a lot of work to do, not for politics. Like we can talk about politics at this table, but do kids have what they need to eat? Do people have what they need to eat? I will be okay being wrong politically, I'm not a fan of Donald Trump, if people had lower food prices and they had food in their bellies. I'll be okay with that. I'll be okay with that. But it doesn't look like I'm going to get to be okay with it unless something changes.
TURNER: Yes. I want the big, beautiful bill to be beautiful. The question becomes, for whom is it beautiful for? And if we're denying -- I know what you said with government control, but are we denying those respondents to the A.P. poll? Is their pain points not -- do they not count?
JENNINGS: It'll be beautiful for people who pay taxes because their taxes are not going up. It'll be beautiful for people who use energy because it's going to unleash American energy. It'll be beautiful for people who care about a secure southern border because it massively invests in our infrastructure and ICE agents at the southern border. It'll be beautiful for people who work in a real --
TURNER: If my job doesn't have a living wage, you don't have healthcare for me?
SETMAYER: It's not beautiful.
LATHAN: (INAUDIBLE) depend on their Medicare.
SETMAYER: Right. Is it beautiful for --
LATHAN: Medicare Medicaid, I mean, would it be? Is it beautiful for all --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: When you come back here in a year and tell me whether she's lost her Medicaid or not, because she's not going to.
SETMAYER: Oh, that's right, because they delayed it until after the midterms, right?
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: You all are welcome to lie to people about whether they're going to lose their Medicaid or they won't.
(CROSSTALKS)
LATHAN: Then we're going to come back here and we're more than happy to have a conversation with you about whether or not people lose their Medicaid because of the big, beautiful bill. If you guys are telling me right now that nobody's going to lose their Medicaid, I would love to come back and have that conversation after that happens.
TODD: If you're lawfully in this country and you're fulfilling the work requirements, you're not going to lose your Medicaid.
TURNER: That is not true.
BERMAN: All right. Let me -- I want to see you with the way, because you keep talking about the A.P. poll. I just want to see where that was going to go.
You're talking about the A.P. The Wall Street Journal does have a poll where people gave their view on the economy. It's kind of a mixed bag, right? 47 percent say the economy is getting worse. That's up nine points since inauguration day. Worth noting in that same poll, the number of people say the economy is getting better is up from the same point in the inauguration. So, it's a little bit of a mixed bag. A lot of people say it's getting worse.
SETMAYER: Depends on what income level you're at, right? That's the problem here. It's like if you are in the upper percentile, then this is great for you. But if you are a working class American, where manufacturing jobs are getting -- are being lost by the tens of thousands, where small businesses are closing because of Donald Trump's erratic tariff policy, where, you know, the diner waitress can't -- her diner has closed because Donald Trump and DOGE came in and cut tens of thousands of jobs in their hometown.
JENNINGS: You're saying DOGE cut diners?
SETMAYER: I'm saying that Doge cut the jobs, the federal jobs in areas where it trickles down, and you know this. So, when you lose tens of thousands of jobs in an area, then that trickles down because then you don't have those workers going to the nail salons and to the diners and to all that.
JENNINGS: Listen here. I've never heard that DOGE cut the diners.
SETMAYER: Not really. Well, maybe you don't have anyone that works in a diner in your family, but I guarantee you --
JENNINGS: I never heard that. That's a new one. That's a new one.
SETMAYER: Well, I'm happy to educate you, Scott, about what happens when you cut thousands of jobs (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: Van, just get in (INAUDIBLE).
LATHAN: I'll make a corollary here. The writers strike, the strikes that happened in Hollywood, the town that I live in. When this happened, I was hearing a lot from valets, from personal trainers, from people like that, who knew that if actors and writers weren't working, then that meant that their discretionary income went down. They would go to less hotels, they would valet less, they would take personal training class, they would go to less restaurants. It affected the entire town.
SETMAYER: That is correct.
LATHAN: So, if you cut jobs and if you cut people's ability to earn, then other people who earn off those people, it stands to reason that --
(CROSSTALKS)
TODD: DOGE cuts will leave us with a federal government that is larger than we had in COVID.
SETMAYER: Tell that to the people who have lost tens of thousands of jobs.
TODD: Is that not big enough?
SETMAYER: In like Virginia and in the military.
TODD: I live in Virginia. It's big enough. It's big enough.
SETMAYER: Okay, so tell that. So, you're saying that it's okay that the people who lost all their jobs by Donald Trump letting Elon Musk and his 19 year olds come in and cut all those jobs, just get over it. It's fun.
(CROSSTALKS)
BERMAN: This segues into our next segment here because it has to do with New York City where there is someone running for mayor who's talking a lot about this, the president reportedly jumping into the fight here in New York, including making, reportedly, an interesting phone call to one candidate.
Plus, two Confederate statues rising again, thanks to the Trump administration.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
BERMAN: So, President Trump often promotes states' rights, leave it to the states to decide, but tonight he's taking a different stance on cities. "The New York Times" reports that he is considering using his voice to battle Zoran Mamdani, the socialist running to be New York City's mayor.
The President even reportedly spoke by phone with Andrew Cuomo, who is now running as an independent. We should say the President denied this phone call. On top of that, he is threatening to federalize Washington, D.C. over a crime, even though crime is down -- there. Let's talk first about this mayoral race here in New York City.
[22:35:00]
Nina, I bet you have an opinion on what's going on here.
NINA TURNER (D) FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: I do. How did you guess? Listen, President has a right to endorse whoever he wants to and if one of those candidates wants him his endorsement, they have a right.
Ultimately, it will be up to the voters of New York to decide whether they want a mayor that is going to answer to every whim of the President, or whether or not they want a mayor that's going to stand up and serve the people. Even in my congressional race, President Biden got involved in that race, colleagues and endorsed against me. So, certainly the President has a right to endorse.
BERMAN: Difference here, maybe.
TURNER: Yeah.
BERMAN: Do you think if President Trump gets involved, and I know none of you live in here in New York City, but if President Trump gets involved in this race against Mamdani, does it help or hurt Mamdani in New York City?
VAN LATHAN, "HIGHER LEARNING" PODCAST CO-HOST: Oh, can I say something, like, even about that call at the bottom right there, it says Trump considers fighting against socialists in NYC race. Even that right there, that lower, is underestimating Mamdani. Even that. It's that you have Trump named, you have his name, he's a person, and then Mamdani is just socialist. Socialist is not why Mamdani is cutting through. That's not a lie.
BRIAN TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But wait a minute. But he is a socialist.
LATHAN: What I'm telling you is, like, I could look, we could also, like, change Trump with white nationalists or white nationalist lover, or white nationalist --
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Wait, Mamdani says we need to seize the means of production. There is an actual --
(CROSSTALK) LATAHN: What I' actually saying is, the reason why Mamdani is cutting through, and -- for the left and for the right, for the Democrats and Republicans, is because he's talking to people about the status of their life. He's talking to them about how they're living, how they're earning, and how they are going to eat tomorrow.
And even if you do not agree with the policy behind it -- I happen to -- but if you don't agree with that, the method of his communication is something that is scaring the political establishment on both sides.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Zohran Mamdani is a gift from God to the Republican Party in -- which sorely needs gifts from God.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: Well, why don't they just --
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: They're scared.
TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT: Okay.
TODD: He says what every Democrat thinks which is the government should take over grocery stores --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Okay, that's incorrect.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: -- seize the means of production, defund the police. He says what Democrats believe.
SETMAYER: Okay, time out.
TODD: He did say it.
SETMAYER: Not every Democrat believes what Zoran Mamdani -- what he says --
TODD: Then they should say so. They should renounce him.
SETMAYER: And they are, which is why --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: -- which is, wait a minute. Hold on a second -- which is why there is some consternation inside the party about whether they're endorsing him or not, because the party as a whole does not endorse what you just said. Now, I agree with you, as a formal Republican, that this is a gift to
the Republicans in the midterms if he wins. Because they will do exactly what you just did, which is a preview. So DNC, Democrats, here it is. This is the preview of what you will have to endure in every single district that is a swing district in country.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Renounce him now or be settled with him forever.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Because that's what's going to happen. And this is what's problematic about it. Now, to Van's point, yes, he's a very good communicator and he knew how to use social media and that's why he broke through. But I fear the Democrats are learning the wrong lessons here because his policies are not necessarily popular once people get to find them out.
Affordability is a problem. Yes, that's what people are concerned about. But the answer promising everything you're going to fix everything and come in and like take control of our grocery stores isn't the answer policy wise. But that's what they're going to be saddled with having to answer everywhere in the country --
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: In Ohio, we have state controlled liquor stores in Ohio. Ohio is controlled by Republicans. The walls have not come falling down. One of the things that Mamdan said as an experiment to help people have more affordability is why he ran. It wasn't just his social media. It's not just his speaking skills. It is because he is speaking to the material needs of people in New York.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a valiant effort to try to say that not all Democrats believe this, but you cannot deny that the energy in the Democratic Party right now is behind Mamdani and Mamdani clones. It happened in Minneapolis. It happened in Seattle this week.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: The energy on the ground --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: Hold on. Wait a second.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- the energy on the ground is with the socialists.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: I just watched Cory Booker refuse to endorse Mamdani. I've watched Hakeem Jeffries. UNKNOWN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I don't mean the politicians. I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I mean the energy on the base of the party, not the --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: Do you know why -- let me tell you something.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: The first video I saw of Mamdani, the first video I saw of him, was him going around to halal trucks here in New York and he's talking to the people and he's talking to them about the red tape that they face in trying to get permits to sell it. And the reason why it costs two dollars more than it should for working people to buy food on the go because of government waste, red tape, and inefficiency.
And I'm sorry, if you are telling me right now, if you're telling any person right now that the cost of their life is higher because government is not doing its job correctly, you are going to make inroads with them.
[22:40:06]
They are going to say, what else is too much money because government? What else is too much money because government is --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Let's talk about that. Let's talk about President Trump. Let me read you what he wrote on Truth Social. He wrote, "The law in D.C. must be changed to prosecute these minors as adults and lock them up for a long time starting at age 14."
He said, "If D.C. doesn't get his act together and quickly, we'll have no choice but to take federal control of the city and run this city how it should be run and put criminals on notice that they're not going to get away with it anymore. If this continues, I'm going to exert my powers and federalize the city." And just to put up with the -- with what's happened with crime in Washington D.C., assault with dangerous weapons, robbery, violent crime, property crime, all down.
TODD: But let's be clear, the Washington City Council had a bill to reduce sentences for crimes across the board and it was so bad that Democrats in Congress joined with Republicans to stop it. The Washington City Council is, in fact, a cesspool of far-left radicalism.
TURNER: Oh my God.
TODD: That is the truth.
TURNER: First of all, this President has his handful -- you need to just go and stay on the federal level. Now, I didn't know, Scott, that my Republican colleagues now all of a sudden believe in bigger government. If that's what they believe in that government should come in and take over, let's go ahead and start with Medicare for all -- 68,000 Americans die every single year. Millions are under assured. This is how you all rolling.
JENNINGS: Let me just --
TURNER: I mean this is how you all rolling, let's roll.
UNKNOWN: Is there agreement there?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I'm just going to tell you right now. The plight of American hero big balls has set off -- has set off a firestorm in the Republican Party. This kid -- this kid who worked for the DOGE guys, didn't shut down any diners that I know of but he's out of the government --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- he goes out on the street.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: He protects a woman from being attacked by a roving street gang and he had the crap kicked out of him. And you know, we had a congressional intern murdered not too long ago. I'm just telling you, Republicans right now have about had it with the violence and the idea that you can't even walk around D.C. right now without getting attacked by street gangs.
TURNER: But we have laws on the books already.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: I served on local government. There is no elected official worth their salt on any level of government that is okay.
SETMAYER: That is correct.
TURNER: The innocence being attacked.
SETMAYER: That's correct.
TURNER: And it's wrong, Scott Jennings.
JENNINGS: What do you mean? Which wrong?
TURNER: It's wrong to characterize it in that way.
JENNINGS: That D.C. is a violent place where people don't feel safe? TURNER: There are many violent places.
SETMAYER: Okay, so D.C. --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Okay, so again, Donald Trump is demagoguing the issue. Is there violent crime in D.C.? Yes, just like everywhere, okay?
JENNINGS: Did the city council there try to reduce sentencing?
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Yes, they did and that was a problem and you know that they changed that and crime is down. Violent crime is down in D.C. in all those categories, between 20 and 30 percent. As a matter of fact, D.C.'s violent crime - homicide is down, one of the lowest rates in major cities across the country. So, Donald Trump is taking --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You're saying --
TODD: There's carjacking every day.
SETMAYER: Yes, actually I do feel safe in D.C. I'm sorry that you don't, but the problems in D.C. are Donald Trump is cherry picking, and so he's using this so that he can try to assert his imperialistic, you know, wannabe fantasy of taking over D.C., which he's done before, because he wants to put -- if there's protests, he wants to bring in the National Guard, he wants to take over. And that's a problem.
Now, he can't do that. He can't just with the stroke of a pen do that. There's something called Home Rule that's been in place since 1973. And that came out of the Civil Rights Movement so that D.C., which was a majority black city, could have control over their local issues. Now, Donald Trump wants to go to Congress, which he would have to do in order to take over D.C. Well, then let them go ahead and have that argument and then they can talk about D.C. statehood.
LATHAN: By the way, you all skirted the issue. Nina asked something. She asked a very direct question. The question was, when something is so bad, are you guys in favor of federalizing it? Are you guys in favor of big government swooping in and taking over? And if the conversation in D.C. is so bad that you're -- that you're in favor of that, then I would ask, are you in favor of that when it comes to poverty? Are you in favor of that when it comes to health care?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We have federalized all of those things. We have to be massive --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: What I'm saying is --what I'm saying is -- (CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: -- for you guys who are the small government advocates --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: It's a federal district. It's not a state. It's not a state.
TURNER: --that part.
LATHAN: Are you okay with Donald Trump coming in using his big government --
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: D.C. is a jurisdiction of the federal government. It is a subdivision of the federal government. It is not a state. It is --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: That has home rule.
TODD: No, it does not uphold rule.
SETMAYER: So, you don't think D.C. should have home rule?
TODD: No.
SETMAYER: So, then what's the 1973 act that gave D.C. home rule? No, I'm just curious. You said --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: Okay, so let me ask you this.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: D.C. is subject to Congress jurisdiction. Is it a federal district?
LATHAN: Let me ask you this. Outside of D.C., any other place that has an issue with violent crime. Violent crime --
[22:45:00]
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Are there any other federal districts? Okay.
LATHAN: I'm just talking -- I'm talking about using big government authority -- using big government authority --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: So, you're okay then with the federal government coming in and taking over, like garbage pick-up and all the things that are --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I don't know what the right answer is. I just know that, when we go to the -- I just know that when we go to CNN in Washington to do a show, they send guards out with us to walk us out 200 feet to the street and they don't do that for --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: They don't do it for me.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Yeah, right?
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: They might do it for me, they might do it for somebody out of need.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: They don't do it for me.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: So, the answer is -- so the answer is --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: -- the Feds to take over D.C. That's the answer?
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: It is a federal district.
LATHAN: -- D.C. and I feel completely safe. I walk all around D.C. No one bothers me.
SETMAYER: Yeah. Me either.
LATHAN: It's cool. Everything is cool.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: I would walk with any of you through the CNN offices anywhere in the country.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: The Trump administration is resurrecting two infamous Confederate statues. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:50:31]
BERMAN: So, tonight the Confederacy is trending again, at least in the form of two statues. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordering the return of a statue honoring the separatists built by a Confederate soldier. Hegseth says the quote, "-- Reconciliation Monument" should have never been taken down by quote, " -- woke lemmings" claiming the administration doesn't believe in erasing U.S. history.
And it comes just a day after the White House announced it is bringing back the only statue in Washington D.C. honoring a Confederate leader, which was brought down during the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020.
Let me just tell you which one of these statues is the one in Arlington by Moses Ezekiel, a Confederate soldier who puts the lost cause myth that the Civil War was not a war to keep slavery, that slavery was a positive good. Anyway, what do we think about the return of these statues?
TURNER: Kind of statue is celebratory as praise. If you want to preserve history, we have history books and we have museums. But I'm America first. I support America's Americans first. And as a black American, no understanding the history that black Americans built this country against their will. And before we even get to reparations, didn't even get so much as a thank you. The Confederates were traitors and they lost. We should not be building monuments to nor supporting the losers.
LATHAN: I'm interested in what you guys think.
SETMAYER: Yeah, me too. I want to know why you guys support a party that wants to elevate the lost cause of church leaders.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: Wait, wait. You just put words in our mouth. I live in Alexandria, Virginia. We have a street named for Roger Taney, who wrote the Dred Scott decision, one of the two or three most despicable decisions in the history of the Supreme Court. He should not be honored with a street. It was a street that was named -- that was picked during the height of segregation. It was not -- he had nothing to do with the city. That should be gone.
But we have a process by which you get a statue in Washington, D.C. One of the statues in question was paid for by the Masons. If you want to get rid of that statue, you don't topple it in the middle of the night with a bunch of criminal thugs. You do it through the process of the city.
SETMAYER: Okay, so are you okay with them putting -- so, okay, fine.
TODD: Yeah. So, you go through the process to take down the statue --
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Are you okay with the statue that is being put -- the monument that's being put back in Arlington Cemetery? TODD: I don't know much about that statue.
SETMAYER: I'll tell you about it.
TODD: I know Pete Hegseth says it's a reconciliation statue. I don't know about that.
SETMAYER: Pete Hegseth needs to pick up a book unless he's okay with The Lost Cause because that statue is a statue that is romanticizing the lost cause and the Confederacy. It depicts what that we just showed on CNN. It depicts a black slave handing over a baby that the Confederate soldier who's going off to war and making it look like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that you're going off to war. They're traitors and treasonous.
And I'm sorry, but that black slave right there, believe me, she wasn't happy about doing that. The white woman that's standing there that they're making that has like a crown of olives on her, on her head and making it look like she's protecting the slaves. And that depicts that there are black slaves fighting alongside their slave owners. There's nothing reconciliatory about anything with that statue.
And not only that. Moses Ezekiel's own family, 22 members of his family wrote a letter to the government saying, you know what? This is not okay. It should be removed, put it in a museum. So why is Pete Hegseth, our Secretary of Defense, putting this back? Because Lloyd Austin, our other Secretary of Defense, one who's actually qualified to do his job, took that down because he recognized what an affront it is to black Americans and the original sin of this country. So, should we -- why is Pete Hegseth putting it back and honoring these traitors?
LATHAN: So, in my opinion, every single Confederate monument is an act of cultural terrorism and I'll tell you why. This movement, The Lost Cause Movement, arises out of a post-Reconstruction time where the Confederate battle flag is adopted, where the Ku Klux Klan arises and comes to power, all for one reason, and these monuments and these people are romanticized all for one reason -- to control and terrorize black people.
UNKNOWN: That's right.
LATHAN: So, moving away from those monuments, from celebrating those people, is actually a strong sign of actual reconciliation that we don't want black people to live in fear of racial terror and slavery anymore, and to repower those things in those images is saying it's, to me, saying the opposite of that. But here's the difference. I'm not about to cry over the statue. You know why? Because we're not scared no more.
[22:55:00]
We're not afraid. We never really were. We're not afraid of statues. We're not afraid of the cultural terrorists. There's -- we cannot -- our eyes are wide open in terms of what America means for us. And if the President and his administration want to cozy up to the worst parts of American history, we see them. Point blank period.
SETMAYER: But they should be asked why they came with it.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: But I agree with you that Lost Cause statues -- statues that were put up, that were intended to terrorize black Americans well after the horrors of the Civil War, it's inappropriate. The question is whether those statues should be removed in the middle of the night by violent mobs or should they be removed by their government processes.
SETMAYER: Okay, so what then, should they be put back?
TURNER: Good question.
SETMAYER: But that's not -- so again, I go back to, should the Secretary of Defense be putting a statue back that was properly removed, should he be putting it back, glorifying people who were traitors to this country?
TURNER: And lost.
SETMAYER: And lost. Correct.
TODD: Well, Arlington is a complicated place.
SETMAYER: It's a yes or no answer.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: I just told you I agree with you.
SETMAYER: Okay, so when you haven't said, should the secretary -- and Scott, you're really quiet on this. I would love to hear your perspective.
BERMAN: Let me say this. Scott, quickly, if you want to get in.
JENNINGS: Yeah, a few things. I don't agree with the destruction of public property --
UNKNOWN: It's not what we're talking about.
JENNINGS: -- number one. Number two. I generally have believed that Confederate statues, however and wherever they've been put up, I know there's a lot of people that would say they put them up for different reasons. I'm a supporter of museums. I like museums. I like when museums tell the full story of American history.
I don't have any problem at all with problematic statues being put in museums. I do like the idea of a process being followed. This one in Arlington, Brad's right, Arlington is a complicated place and what the ground was and what the grounds were originally. It is complicated.
So, my general view is, is that I want to celebrate as much as possible the Union. I come from Kentucky and yes, we did birth both presidents of the Confederacy and the United States, but I'm a Lincoln guy and I tend to be a union supporter. I want as much union praise and union generals and union soldiers as possible.
SETMAYER: So, then, you're not okay with what Pete Hegseth is doing because you think that --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: You sounded like you're uncomfortable but not sure.
JENNINGS: Look, I don't know how he arrived at the decision. My personal view is that statues like that --
SETMAYER: So, does it romanticize the --
JENNINGS: Would probably be best in a museum.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Okay, well you said romanticizing the Confederacy that has plagued this state for far too long is something we wish to not engender. So, I hope that you still believe that because you wrote that in 2014.
JENNINGS: I literally just said I would rather the Confederate statues be in a museum.
SETMAYER: But you won't say that they should not put it back.
JENNINGS: I literally just said the statues should be in a museum.
SETMAYER: Okay.
UNKNOWN: You're hard to agree with.
BERMAN: Hang on. We're going to take a quick break. Everyone, thank you. Just back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
