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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Sends Feds into D.C. Streets Tonight in Show of Force; Trump's DOJ Official Urged January 6th Rioters to Kill Cops; Trump Escalates Redistricting War With Call for New Census. Trump Allegedly Asks Supreme Court To Allow ICE Raids; New CNN Original Series, "American Prince JFK, Junior" Premieres Saturday at 9 P.M. Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired August 07, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the Feds hunt the map for AWOL Democrats and for roll call advantages as Donald Trump makes a dramatic move.
Plus, outrage after masked agents in fatigues jump from a rental truck to detain migrants at the Home Depot.
Also, they're not old enough to drink, but are now able to join Clark Kent on raids in America's city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will be sworn in as an ICE agent.
BERMAN: And out, FBI veterans who stood up to the Trump administration in a January 6th rioter who called for killing cops.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Ana Kasparian, Phil Williams, Van Lathan, and Dan Abrams.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN (on camera): All right. Good evening. I'm John Berman in for Abby. And we do begin with breaking news. The president is sending the feds into the streets of Washington, D.C., tonight in a show of force against crime, which is down, we should note, in Washington this year. The president has been threatening to federalize crime fighting in the capital after the reported an assault of a DOGE employee during a carjacking. Police say the suspects are juveniles. And the president responded by saying, more teens who commit crimes should be locked up. Again, crime is down overall in Washington this year.
Agencies on the ground tonight include the FBI, which made headlines today by firing two senior officials who initially resisted the administration's efforts to compile a list of agents who worked on January 6 cases. And while they are gone, someone who does have a job in law enforcement is Jared Wise. His resume now includes senior adviser at the Justice Department maybe just above Rioter on January 6th. He was indicted on felony counts civil disorder, include assaulting officers. In fact, in the video you're about to see, he urged the crowd to kill them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys are disgusting. I'm former law enforcement. You're disgusting. You are the Nazi. You are the Gestapo and you can't see it because you're chasing your pension, right, your pension your retirement, right? That's what ruins your life, your retirement.
Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Yes, kill them. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, we should know he was not convicted. Donald Trump threw out all cases for January 6th when he took office. At his trial, though, Wise admitted to using those words, he called it an angry reaction. The DOJ calls Wise, quote, a valued member of the Justice Department and we appreciate his contributions to our team.
Let's start, though, with Washington, D.C., tonight, where we have federal law enforcement on the streets. We're getting feedback -- we're hoping to get feedback soon for what they're doing exactly. But why now and not six months ago when the president first took office, given the crime is down?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, the homicide rate in Washington, D.C., is very high compared to other major cities and other world capital. So, to continue to say crime is down, I think you're giving people a false sense of the fact that it is in fact dangerous in Washington, D.C.
But I tried to tell you last night, this issue with the DOGE kid, Ed, people are pissed about this and it hammered home for a lot of Republicans the fact that Washington, D.C. is violent, there's roving street gangs, there's lots of carjackings, and, you know, this guy worked in the White House. He was known to a lot of senior government officials, and I told you last night, it had set off a firestorm in the Republican Party and this is the result.
VAN LATHAN, PODCAST CO-HOST, HIGHER LEARNING: Carjackings are down in Washington, D.C., 37 percent, 37 percent.
JENNINGS: From here to here?
LATHAN: Whether -- 37 percent is a significant number. It's just math, right? It's just math. 37 percent drop is a significant drop.
Here's the deal. If people -- if the president is doing this because someone that he knows got assaulted, unfortunately got assaulted, and then he can use that as an excuse to do what he likes to do, which is ratchet things up and use authoritarian measures to show force and take things over, and that's what he's getting. But the reality is that things, in terms of crime, are trending down in Washington, D.C. It's just math. We didn't cook it up in a leftist socialist bubble. It's just math, guys.
ANA KASPARIAN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND HOST, THE YOUNG TURKS: It's true that crime is trending down. We also have to be honest, there was a big crime spike during COVID. And so the numbers are trending down from that spike during COVID, but still not where it was prior to COVID, right, so 2019 numbers.
DAN ABRAMS, FOUNDER, MEDIAITE YOUTUBE: What's the big deal? What's the big deal on this?
KASPARIAN: Carjackings are a big deal in D.C. though.
ABRAMS: I'm going to be very pro law enforcement throughout the show tonight on all the different topics we're doing, right? I don't see the big problem with adding more law enforcement to the streets of Washington, D.C. Now, you can say they could be doing other things. You could say it's a use of resources, whatever. But I don't view this as some major scandal or big issue that, oh my goodness, they're adding law enforcement people to the streets of D.C.
PHIL WILLIAMS, HOST, RIGHTSIDE RADIO AND JUST RIGHT PODCAST: That's because it's not a scandal. It's not a scandal at all. I mean, the scandal right now is that trending down is great, but when you're still have a crime rate that is higher than Mexico City in the capital of the free world. That's an issue that has to be addressed.
And Trump is absolutely right to do what it takes if the locals can't get it done, but he can provide something to us.
BERMAN: Well, that last part that you're going to say. You know, what Van is saying is a crime raid center, we put that chart up on the screen before showing how assault with dangerous weapons, robbery, violent crime, property down, all down pretty substantially in Washington, D.C. And to Dan's point, you know, always put out more law enforcement if you want, if you can. But why now? Why tonight and not in January?
JENNINGS: Why not? Why not? I mean, we all acknowledge that there is some amount of too much violent crime in Washington -- well, most of us acknowledge there's violent crime in Washington, D.C. I think we all agree that having more people out on the street patrolling, looking for criminals is a good thing. Keeping an eye on the streets is a good thing. So, why not?
KASPARIAN: So, I don't have a problem with adding more police officers as long as they're not like abusing people or using excessive force. What I do wonder about though, is why is there an issue right now in D.C. where you literally have teenagers? Like the people doing the carjackings are literally teenagers. There's something going on that needs to be addressed, and right now, it's just kind of dealing with a symptom of, I think, a deeper problem that needs to be addressed. LATHAN: I'm going to say something here that probably doesn't surprise you guys. Adding tons of police to a place to specifically respond to what the president says is unprecedented violence, it might not bother all of you guys that much, like having the police on the street looking for criminals, doesn't bother you. It bothers me. It bothers me for many reasons. It bothers me because, typically, or let me not say, typically, all too often when the police are on the streets looking for criminals, they're looking for people like myself.
And so what I would say is anytime that is necessary, it's necessary for the police to do their jobs, for the cops to do their jobs, fine, it's always good to have cops doing their jobs and doing their jobs in ways that respect the citizenry of the American people. However, I will say that in a situation where it is this politicized and they are sent out there specifically for a mission, it makes me uncomfortable.
BERMAN: Can I make one comment on the politics of it? Because Jonathan Martin, our friend who writes a Politico, notes, President Trump could go out, could have this week or last week, gone out and said, hey, look at how much crime is dropped in D.C., this is all because of me. But instead of that, he's seizing on this one crime.
JENNINGS: But that's dishonest.
(CROSSTALKS)
BERMAN: I'm telling you what Jonathan Martin is saying. You go ahead.
KASPARIAN: We're kind of missing a big part of the story in what happened to that DOGE staffer. There was literally a patrol car that saw everything happen and that didn't prevent the crime from happening, which I think is also very strange, right?
JENNINGS: And the only reason he didn't get injured any worse is because the cops happened to be there. I think they arrested 2 out of 10 people.
KASPARIAN: They did, yes.
JENNINGS: But if you had more police on the street who were available to keep an eye on things, maybe some of these things would not escalate into as violent of a situation as they could be, but the guy who was still very seriously injured despite the fact that the cops were there.
WILLIAMS: Let me say too, I would bet if you asked the rank and file, right, in the military, we call these guys combat multipliers. You're adding something to the fray that only helps those who are already there doing the fight. You're going to ask the rank and file blue right now, and I guarantee you, the rank and file members of the blue are asking for more help and they're glad --
LATHAN: So, you're saying that force multiplier, the term that you're talking about --
WILLIAMS: A force multiplier. LATHAN: A force multiplier, that that should be added to the American streets where American citizens are --
(CROSSTALKS)
LATHAN: We're not talking about operations overseas, in a foreign country doesn't with specific terms, tactical, right.
So, what I'm saying, when the force gets multiplied --
WILLIAMS: You're assisting those on the streets of doing their job.
[22:10:00]
LATHAN: And you guys talk about escalation. We could talk about some escalations. We could talk about escalations in the case of Eric Garner.
WILLIAMS: I think you're going to have a de-escalation.
LATHAN: (INAUDIBLE) in the case of George Floyd.
WILLIAMS: I think you're going to have a de-escalation because you have more people in the streets bringing it to them.
LATHAN: Escalating.
WILLIAMS: No, you're going to want having a de-escalation right now because there's less capability of the crime to take place with more --
KASPARIAN: I would like to see a more comprehensive approach to this, right? These are teenagers. I don't want their skulls broken by police. I mean, okay, if we need to enforce the law a little better, sure, you can make an argument for that, but let's keep these teenagers busy, right? Like let's invest in these communities, give these kids something positive to focus on. You know, there's never any focus on that, which it strange.
BERMAN: Yes. And you said you were going to be super pro law enforcement tonight. What about the cops who were on the other side of this man now being employed by the Justice Department on tape saying, kill them, kill them, the rank and file that you just talked about there? You know, what do you think the --
ABRAMS: I think it's terrific that the DOJ has now hired a guy who was yelling about killing cops, period. I think that's an outrage. I think that is a scandal, in my view. I think it ought to be viewed as a scandal that this guy is now working in the DOJ. Whether he's convicted or not convicted, he's on tape right there talking about killing cops.
And I speak this way about people on the left who talk about killing cops. I talk about people on the right. You got to be consistent though. If you're going to say you're pro law enforcement, you got to say what that guy's doing is wrong and he ought not to be in the Department of Justice.
LATHAN: Well, can I ask you a question? To that point, would you say that the president of the United States is pro law enforcement? Because it seemed to me that he pardoned the people that took place --
ABRAMS: Right. So, I would tell you that I think he's selectively pro law enforcement. I think he --
LATHAN: Well, then you're not pro law enforcement at all.
ABRAMS: Well, look, you can make that argument, and I've been very critical of the president about the pardons on January 6th. I think they're very hard to justify, period.
KASPARIAN: Yes. Trump's not very consistent.
ABRAMS: Not just more than more, more than hard to justify, impossible to justify.
Phil, you said rank and file. How do you think the rank and file should feel about this guy on tape saying, kill them? Now, he says he was caught up in anger. It was just those were just angry words. He didn't really want to kill them. But do you think the rank and file cares about that?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I think they should. I think they absolutely should. And I agree. I mean, if that was his voice saying those things and he is now working for the DOJ --
BERMAN: He admits to saying it was his voice.
WILLIAMS: Okay, well, then great. The DOJ needs to reexamine their hiring policies. But I don't think we can paint the broad brush on what's happening on the streets D.C. right now.
BERMAN: This is a separate issue. I'm just saying --
WILLIAMS: Yes. But the reality is, yes, I think if that occurred and then he was hired to be -- I'm not saying it didn't. I'm just saying if indeed that occurred over here, then why is he working over here? I can't explain that. I can't give that a buy.
LATHAN: I can. I can explain it, because President Trump has a political -- he gains politically empowering people, empowering people that were involved on January 6th --
(CROSSTALKS)
ABRAMS: It relates to your other topic about the FBI, about the people who are getting now fired in the FBI because they either wouldn't give the names of all the people who worked on the January 6th cases. I mean, remember, when you are in law enforcement, the vast majority of people in law enforcement do not pick the cases they work on. If you want to talk about the person at the top, okay. Just about everyone else works on the cases they're assigned to work on. And we have now seen mass firings of anyone even, support staff who touched the January 6th case. That too is an outrage because that's not pro law enforcement either.
BERMAN: Again, I'll just leave you with this. The Justice Department says that Jared Wise is a valued member of the Justice Department, and we appreciate his contributions, that is in the present tense, to our team.
Next, the redistricting war intensifies tonight is Donald Trump wants to blow up the entire political map by making this dramatic move that could involve the number of seats each state gets.
Plus, there are a lot of critics tonight after video surfaces of a raid at a Home Depot parking lot where mass agents emerged from a rental truck.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
BERMAN: All right. Tonight, President Trump perhaps making moves to change the U.S. entire political map as the redistricting war intensifies with more states threatening to blow up their maps in response to Texas trying to eliminate five Democratic seats ahead of the midterms. The president kind of throwing a grenade in the middle of it all, he's calling for a new census, which, of course, determines how many Congressional seats every state gets, as well as how much money they receive.
Not only is the timing extraordinary since the census has only carried out at the end of the decade, but the president wants to exclude undocumented immigrants that many Republicans believe would be advantageous to the party if they did that.
This comes as the White House is pressuring states urging them to follow the lead from Texas. Vice President J.D. Vance met with Indiana Republicans tonight amid protests and boos, but left apparently without a commitment from Indiana's leaders.
Scott Jennings, do you think the president wants to do a mid-decade census and reapportion everything right now? What's he doing?
JENNINGS: Well, he certainly wants to do the census in a way that doesn't count illegal aliens as part of the overall population for the purpose of determining Congressional districts and federal funding. And I think he's going to have a lot of popular support for it. Now, I know there's a process they have to go through and it would take a long time to do a census. But there is a widespread belief that Democrats want to keep the system in place that they have because it advantages them.
I know that's what they believe because a Democratic congresswoman from New York, Clark, the other day said out loud, I want more migrants in my district for redistricting purposes. And so it's a political strategy of the Democrats. And I think the president's saying to the American people, why are we counting illegal aliens, unauthorized residents in this country when it comes to apportioning our political leadership?
[22:20:03]
KASPARIAN: It's because it's in the Constitution, the United States Constitution. The Supreme Court ruled on this in 2019, and they ruled against Trump 5-4. It's in the Constitution.
I have a big problem with this, regardless of whether it's gerrymandering, which both parties do, or this attempt at changing the way we count the number of living residents in the United States because it's all about cheating. It's all about rigging the system in a way that gives one party an advantage. But what I don't understand is why do they want the advantage?
Congress is useless. They do nothing for the American people other than vote on bills to lower taxes, increase spending on wars, things like that. But when it comes to representing the American people, both parties are really like a uniparty these days and don't really get much done. I mean, one of the things that we need to do more than anything right now is reform our immigration laws, so we don't keep doing this pendulum swing from a left wing president who has a more open borders-type policy to a right wing president who's like very draconian in his executive orders pertaining to immigration laws.
Congress is useless to the point where I question whether our system of checks and balances even matters. And then besides that, you have Congress increasingly ceding their power to the executive branch when it comes to some of the most important issues of our day, including whether or not we engage in war.
So, I'm really down on Congress at this point. And I just don't understand why they're so desperate to cheat, like to gain more power when they don't really do much with that power other than, well, there's a lot of, in my opinion, insider trading going on in Congress with both parties.
WILLIAMS: I want to jump in on some part of that, because there was a lot that -- but the reality is I believe the court decision you're talking about with regards to the census never drew -- truly drew down on the actual issue of can you count illegals or not. It ruled on the process that was in place at the time without addressing the base issue of can you count illegals.
I really do believe, at the very least what Trump is doing is he's putting something out there right now in the public eye that could wind up being then litigated and then kind of getting the question to the Supreme Court to make a decision while he has a conservative Supreme Court majority. And I really believe that needs to happen.
ABRAMS: Can we agree it should be for 2030 and not for 2025?
KASPARIAN: I don't care when it is. It doesn't matter.
ABRAMS: Well, I do. I mean, I think it does matter. WILLIAMS: It's a matter of state law. That's why Texas is doing what --
BERMAN: Census is not a matter of state law.
WILLIAMS: Yes. No, doing it is, but then the process of doing it is a matter of state law in every state.
BERMAN: A representative shall be apportioned among the several states according to their representative numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state. That's the Constitution.
WILLIAMS: No, but you're missing the part of the state and then has the process of doing it. And as the state Constitution sets up a process that does not have a mandate of only one, then you can have two, or you could have three, or you could have five. And that's what Texas is doing because Texas law allow it.
(CROSSTALKS)
BERMAN: That's a political problem.
ABRAMS: Yes. I mean, yes, no, look, I mean, are we talking about Texas or are we talking about --
BERMAN: Stick on the census first and then we can move the (INAUDIBLE).
ABRAMS: Yes, no. I mean, look, there is an argument that Trump might win in the Supreme Court about whether you can exclude people who are not citizens, period. That's a separate question from the when, right?
I think there are a lot of people, bipartisan, who think we shouldn't be playing this game in the middle of the decade. This belongs at 2020, it belongs at 2030. That's when the next one should happen. And there's some ambiguity about whether Trump is talking about setting this up for 2030, or is he talking about now.
KASPARIAN: If I have family members in my household who are undocumented and the census person shows up to take account, I'm not opening the door. So, the census is going to be really messed up if the Supreme Court, which I don't know how the Supreme Court's going to rule. You're right, it's a very conservative Supreme Court. Well, is it messed up? I mean, they're counting people who live in the United States. Conservatives don't like that it counts undocumented.
JENNINGS: They can't vote but it determines who gets to serve in a political office --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: No, it also determines who's in Congress and it might mean 20 to 30 seats. That's why Democrats are in a middle of a high speed come apart right now.
(CROSSTALKS) KASPARIAN: Well, Texas and Florida better be real careful because they're under the assumption that they don't have a bunch of undocumented immigrants residing in those red states.
BERMAN: Dan and then I have one point to make. Go ahead.
ABRAMS: No.
BERMAN: All I was going to say is you were saying the Democrats are on a fast track to something. It really seems like it's Republicans in Texas. Republicans --
JENNINGS: (INAUDIBLE) about the census move today.
BERMAN: Well, then it's Republicans who are upset about the current situation heading into the 2026 midterms, isn't it? I mean, they're working really hard here to redistrict in Texas. They're working really hard here in the White House to maybe have new sentences. Does that indicate or portray some concern about the midterms coming up?
JENNINGS: I don't think they're working any harder than Democrats work to gerrymander all the states that are currently gerrymandered.
[22:25:02]
It's a political process. It's inherently up to the people of the states to elect state legislatures to draw these lines. And if the people in Texas don't like it, they can change it, get it, but I don't think they're going to.
LATHAN: What matters like we've been talking about everyone gerrymanders at the beginning of the decade when you do it specifically, there has been --
(CROSSTALKS)
BERMAN: Texas did it, and it was after the Voting Rights Act.
JENNINGS: (INAUDIBLE) the Democrats in '22 when they did this.
LATHAN: But specifically here, the reason why it seems so undemocratic is because it's being done at a time where people think that the Republicans might be vulnerable to losing.
WILLIAMS: But let me jump in on that too and say that elections have consequences. In 2010, I was part of the Republican wave in Alabama. I was elected to the state Senate. I was part of the class that came in. And for 136 years, the Democrats had controlled our State House. And for the first time ever, we flipped it red. And guess what? We got to do the reapportionment process the very next year. And Democrats hated it because --
BERMAN: It was the beginning of the decade.
WILLIAMS: And it was the beginning of the decade, but they didn't run away. (CROSSTALKS)
WILLIAMS: Those who are in charge then get to wind up making the process. The one who has the majority winds up getting -- and that's the election. Texas doesn't like it. They need to elect more for Democrats --
ABRAMS: Hang on one second. You're saying the election of consequences. I get it. President Trump has cited the results from 2024 as the reason that we need a new census. What exactly does that mean? I mean, you're saying elections have consequences. He's saying that the election of 2024 is the reason we should have a new census. I don't understand what that means.
KASPARIAN: He likes to reference the fact that he won the popular vote to indicate that he can do whatever he wants, basically, like, literally, that he thinks he has a mandate to do whatever he wants.
JENNINGS: Things do change a lot over a ten-year period. People are up in arms about this mid-decade thing. I mean, populations change, people move. There is movement. And to have the same Congressional district for ten years, I mean, you could make an argument that there's enough movement in the United States that it's okay to look at these things more often than --
LATHAN: You should do it every year.
JENNINGS: They can if they want, I don't know what --
(CROSSTALKS)
ABRAMS: Well, in theory, you're not supposed to do it until every ten years, which is what we're talking about, which is it's supposed to happen every ten years unless you want to change the rules midway in the game.
(CROSSTALKS)
LATHAN: Like a simple question, do we want the most democratic results, the most free and fair elections to come out of all of these states, or do we want to have the rules set up with a party in power can simply entrench themselves for a generation --
WILLIAMS: Brother, have you seen the lines in Illinois?
LATHAN: I get it. I understand it.
(CROSSTALKS)
LATHAN: We're having two different conversations. You're talking about politics and I'm talking about democracy. I'm not saying that gerrymandering and the way that it's done is okay for the left or for the Democrats to do. I'm not saying -- but I'm saying right now, this is becoming a flashpoint issue because it's so obvious of what's happening. WILLIAMS: But I don't think this is a threat to democracy is what you're saying. This is a reality. This is a result of democracy. The people voted for the people who are now doing the reapportionment. That's the democracy. And the democracy is that -- and then they have a duty.
BERMAN: That's a republic.
WILLIAMS: And the duty winds up becoming theirs to then form the lines. And if those who are in the minority don't like the lines --
KASPARIAN: The only threat here is that do-nothing politicians who want to keep skating by not actually representing the American people just want to like rig the system in any way they can to get an upper hand. That's what this is about, and both parties are guilty of doing it. Right now, Republicans are the loudest in wanting to do it, so they're getting all the attention.
But the fact of the matter is gerrymandering is a huge problem and it disenfranchises voters. I'm in California. Democrats have a stronghold in the state of California. And you know what? You want to know something? It's a big problem, because if you don't have two parties competing with one another in a state, you have corruption, okay? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You have that in California and other states that are dominated by the other party. You need that tension with the two parties or else you're not going to have real representation in your state.
BERMAN: All right. Next as video surfaces of agents rating a Home Depot from a rental truck, we're now learning ICE is getting rid of its age limit to recruit more bodies. How could that go wrong? We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:30:00]
BERMAN: All right, tonight there are some anger and questions after Border Patrol agents jumped out of a rented box truck and conducted an immigration raid at a Home Depot in Los Angeles. The agency is calling it Operation Trojan Horse and the raid comes just days after a federal judge upheld a court order banning immigration authorities from stopping people without cause. And breaking tonight, the Trump administration has asked the Supreme Court to allow these raids to continue.
Dan, the courts had ruled that they can't do this indiscriminately. So, I guess in this case, they have to show that it was targeted specifically.
DAN ABRAMS, FOUNDER, MEDIAITE YOUTUBE: That they had reasonable suspicion of the people involved. And that's the question, right? Because it's not just a federal judge. It's -- an Appeals Court has also upheld that temporary restraining order for now, which is why the administration has appealed it tonight. And so in theory, they're going to have to defend what it was, the
reasonable suspicion. It can't just be that they're hanging out. It can't just be that they're speaking in a particular language. There has to be some specific reasonable suspicion of what they did wrong.
[22:35:00]
So, I'm more concerned about the potential that a court order was violated than I am about what kind of truck they were.
PHIL WILLIAMS (R) FORMER ALABAMA STATE SENATOR: Yeah, and I'll be honest with you. I think the truck thing was genius, to be honest with you. I mean, no one cared when Penske had -- the Penske Truck was being used to track 60 illegal aliens in 2023. But now they care that is ICE agents in the back of the Penske Truck.
And I'll be honest with you, part of the reason why they had to do this, take the totality of the whole situation here, you've got apps out there that are disclosing where ICE agents are. You've got people calling ahead and warning, so what should ICE do? Make a reservation that we're going to be at this site at a certain time and that's not feasible. This operation Trojan Horse, which is what they called it, which absolutely -- isn't that amazing. This was genius.
(CROSSTALK)
ANA KASPARIAN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND HOST OF "THE YOUNG TURKS": So, they should be the laziest possible thing and go to a Home Depot parking lot and arrest a bunch of day laborers?
WILLIAMS: Well, they arrested 16 people and a whole bunch of others.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I mean, oh, I feel so much safer. I feel so much better that a bunch of day laborers got rounded up by ICE.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN LATHAN, "HIGHER LEARNING" PODCAST HOST: I'll tell you guys something. People won't like this.
KASPARIAN: No.
LATHAN: They don't. They don't.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: I think that there is a hard core MAGA base that's going, oh, but I think that a lot of Americans - I think that Trump has over- estimated the American electorate's capability--
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: People do not like this. People do not like the idea of someone waiting to work and waiting to go and earn a wage, and they're just being detained by somebody in a mask. They don't like it. I'm telling you guys.
BERMAN: I'm just going to throw three things out there. Number one, 55 percent of the polls now say President Trump has gone too far with immigration policies. Only 40 percent of Independents like the immigration policies that President Trump is doing. And when you say people in mainstream, I just -- and I know it's "South Park", but I want to play with what the "South Park" did last night just to give you a sense of what's out there in popular culture now. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: All right, recruits, this is it. We're heading to a location that might be filled with illegals. Let's take these bad hombres down.
(APPLAUSE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNKNOWN: Freeze.
UNKNOWN: Oh God. Okay.
UNKNOWN: We're just here for questioning. Cooperate and nothing bad will --
UNKNOWN: Oh --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
KASPARIAN: Oh my God.
BERMAN: All right. Go ahead.
ABRAMS: No, I was going to say, look. You cited a poll a minute ago about immigration policies, right? I think some of President Trump's immigration policies are very popular. Others, like some of the tactics being used, are not as popular.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I agree with you.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think on this particular thing in L.A., it's in MacArthur Park, which you talk to people around us in the federal government, they believe this is one of the MS-13 strongholds.
KASPARIAN: The Home Depot parking lot, though?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: And MacArthur Park neighborhood and --
(CROSSTALK) KASPARIAN: MacArthur Park is an actual park and there was criminality there. I will agree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: And this neighborhood is in the clutches of MS-13 and they're pulling every lever they can think of to try to alleviate the control of MS-13 in an area where everybody seems to acknowledge, yes, they -- it's a hotbed for any illegal, violent, transnational criminal event. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: If anyone is MS-13, then everyone is MS-13.
KASPARIAN: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: So, if you want to give MacArthur Park a pass and just let it go, fine.
LATHAN: I went to MacArthur Park all the time. I'm not as --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I think the American people voted for some immigration enforcement because there was none previously and now there is some.
KASPARIAN: People are sold the false promise that violent criminals and dangerous people are going to get rounded up.
UNKNOWN: They are. Certainly, they are.
KASPARIAN: Instead, day laborers are getting rounded up.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: All the violent people are --
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: A lot of these raids in L.A. have happened at Home Depot parking lots.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: You cannot discount the fact that a lot of criminals have been rounded up.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: They've happened outside of schools, literally as parents are dropping off their kids. You know what? Great. Let the Trump administration continue doing this.
UNKNOWN: Go for it.
KASPARIAN: Seriously, go for it. Because that pendulum's going to swing right back to the far left.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: There's statistic here from TRAC Immigration, 71 percent of current ICE detainees have no criminal convictions.
JENNINGS: Other than the fact that they're in the country illegally.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: You got to say violent criminals, remember, they knew everything. They told us how many undocumented people were in the country. They told us like what they had done, but they don't seem to know exactly who they're looking for.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: There's got to be some level of nuance in this conversation, right? Which is some of this stuff is working. It's working. What he's doing at the border is working, period. And you can also, in that same sentence, believe that they go too far.
KASPARIAN: Yes.
ABRAMS: On some of these raids. I can say both those things in the same sense. I can say, I think that what the Trump administration has done with regard to the border deserves an enormous amount of credit. And then I can also say that I think that they've gone too far in going after people who have no criminal record and don't even have -- forget about criminal record, even have any suspicion of committing a crime.
[22:40:02]
JENNINGS: Don't you think the two are linked? I think the internal enforcement in this country under Trump is why a lot of folks aren't trying to come here anymore, because they know when they come here, there's a really good chance the federal government is going to round them up and send them back. That was not the case under Biden. Internal enforcement is in and of itself a deterrent to people coming here in the first place.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, and one more thing to the fray here. A lot of the round-ups you're seeing on the streets are because sanctuary cities will not allow them to do ICE detainers and walk into a jail and take the criminals out.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: That's a fair point. That's a fair point.
WILLIAMS: And they are having to round people up on the streets because they're given no other choice. (CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: But again, saying they have to go after people, I just hope that they have that reasonable suspicion that we've been talking about. I hope they're not just going in and grabbing a bunch of people because they happen to be waiting outside the Home Depot looking to earn a living that day.
LATHAN: Right, we, and I'll say this. If there's a conversation about immigration reform, then that conversation would be comprehensive. You talk about asylum judges. You talk about all different types of structural things that you could change to make this easier and more fluid. Now, if your thrust is political, where you are trying to make the words of Stephen Miller or other far-right MAGA talking heads come true, and remove the undesirables and purify the blood of the country, then you do it the way that you're doing it --
WILLIAMS: Oh wow, brother. Come on.
LATHAN: These are the things -- they don't say these things.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I mean, Stephen Miller --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: They don't sit around -- they don't sit around like, let's purify the blood of the country. No, they don't say that.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: They don't say these things? They absolutely do.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: They absolutely do.
KASPARIAN: I mean Stephen Miller literally talked about suspending Habeas Corpus, right? Essentially stripping even American citizens of an incredibly important constitutional right because he thinks that there's an invasion in the country. So, we need to, you know, basically do away with constitutional rights in order to get rid of every undocumented --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: There was an invasion of the country. Let's look at it. It's part of the downfall of Rome. You look at the history, one of the issues --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Let me do this. Let me do this. You know what I'm going to say? You know what I'm going say? Is the one thing that will absolutely change the dynamic of the situation is "Superman". Listen to Dean Cain who at one point, played "Superman", the TV version, saying he's joining ICE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN CAIN, FORMER "SUPERMAN" ACTOR": I will be sworn in as an ICE agent ASAP. So, they'll have 80,001 recruits for their 10,000 positions.
JESSE WATTERS, "JESSE WATTERS PRIMETIME" HOST: Well, they can't have a better guy than Dean Cain. Are you going to be hopping out of ICE fans and apprehending guys? I will do whatever Director Lyons wants me to do. If that's what it takes, absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: With a cape on.
JENNINGS: There's a -- there's a massive amount of recruitment going on because they now have a huge amount of money to hire new ICE agents.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: In the Superman community?
JENNINGS: And so,
LATHAN: I mean, that's Dean.
JENNINGS: I'm just telling you --
ABRAMS: He's effectively going to be an honorary sheriff.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: But having someone like that out, touting it, talking about, hey, this is a thing you can do for your government, this is public service, it's going to help them recruit, and they have a bunch of people to recruit.
LATHAN: Scott, Scott, it's not nine to five. Nobody gives a Sam Hale what Dean Cain can --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You may not.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You don't, but in the conservative community --
LATHAN: Dean needs the 50,000. That's what got Dean off the couch.
KASPARIAN: Oh my God.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: Dean is not working in a while. Dean don't take that money and buy some crypto. Dean needs the 50. That's what Dean is on.
BERMAN: You don't think this is serious -- Dean Cain?
ABRAMS: You know, look, think it's like you said, I'm getting sworn in, right? When you talk about getting sworn in, he's not really going to be an ICE, or he's going to go on some ICE raids, you know, an honorary member, et cetera. But look, Scott's right. Look, there is real money to recruit ICE agents. Let's hope that that means that the quality is going to continue to go up.
BERMAN: But that's the point, right? Do we know for sure they're expanding these ages, letting in people that may not have been let before? Do feel like the standards are there?
ABRAMS: Well, I hope they are. I mean, look, always with law enforcement, you hope that the standards are higher, right? The better departments have the higher standards.
JENNINGS: I will just say, Republicans right now are trying to recruit and give bonuses to people who want to serve in ICE. And Democrats right now, and people on the left, are encouraging violence against people who want to serve in ICE.
KASPARIAN: They are? How are they encouraging violence?
JENNINGS: And are putting them in harm's way every day.
KASPARIAN: How exactly?
JENNINGS: The two parties and how they're treating ICE agents right now, I think Republicans embracing recruitment of ICE and Democrats encouraging violence against ICE -- terrible.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: So, we're just going to make a declarative statement like that without providing a single shred of evidence.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You have not seen the myriad stories of ICE agents?
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: How are Democrats --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Democrats every day are calling them the Gestapo.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: No, no. Hold on. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Do you think that that helps or hurts?
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: Well, they do act like Gestapo when they're showing up.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Now you're doing it. Now, you're doing it.
KASPARIAN: They are. They're just showing up --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I assume you condone it.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: -- in Penske Trucks --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: So you condone the violence? Do you condone the violence?
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: I don't want my tax dollars going to that garbage, okay? Those people --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Enforcement of federal law?
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: -- do not deserve to be treated that way simply because --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Who -- what people?
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: -- they might be undocumented.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Do the ICE agents deserve to be having violent acts committed, rocks thrown at them?
KASPARIAN: No, they don't. They don't.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Kill them?
KASPARIAN: And those people who do do that get arrested, and they should be.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: They've been told the ICE agents are Gestapo.
KASPARIAN: Have you considered the fact that in a city like Los Angeles that has a massive immigrant community, when they see their mothers or fathers or family members rounded up, that leads to a lot of rage, and they retaliate.
[22:45:04]
I'm not saying they should. That is criminal. They should not assault a police officer.
JENNINGS: It sounds like you're condoning.
KASPARIAN: Let me just tell you something. Someone messes with my family, I get violent. Okay, that's how I feel about family.
JENNINGS: Okay. Good to know.
KASPARIAN: I protect family. So, don't be surprised when people feel angry when they feel that there's a bunch of feds in their city --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: There's a violent streak -- there's a violent streak in the country right now.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: -- invading their city, going after people who are just day laborers and in their own parking lot.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: That's dangerous talk though with regard to law enforcement.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: You can make that argument about anything with law enforcement which is the law enforcement came in, they arrested someone at my house, they got the wrong person, and I am mad, and as a result I'm going to --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Rageful?
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: No, I mean look. You can be mad.
KASPARIAN: It leads to unrest. It leads to a ton of unrest.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: No, it's more than that. They are physically attacking you.
(CROSSTALK)
KASPARIAN: And by the way, it is interesting --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: There is an 800 percent increase in attacks on ICE agents.
BERMAN: Van, last word then we're going to go.
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: You guys, I can't do the whole other than that thing. The first story we did was about a guy on video calling for the killing of police officers.
KASPARIAN: Exactly.
LATHAN: It's got to --
(CROSSTALK)
LATHAN: And Trump -- you guys -- is golden guard. No, no, I'm not in the difficult, I'm in the same place. You guys are standing on high and you're lecturing people about the way they are --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: -- at this table all night. We've gone full circle. Everyone, thank you for being here. Next, we're going to take you to an alternate universe in which JFK Jr. is President of the United States. More special guests will join the table.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:51:08]
BERMAN: The new CNN original series, "American Prince JFK Jr." follows the story and lasting legacy of John F. Kennedy Jr. from his early years that were marked by his father's assassination to his decision to create a new political magazine, "George", and his passionate love story with Carolyn Bessette. Joining us at the table, Steve Gillon, friend and biographer of JFK Jr., Lisa DePaulo, former "George" Magazine writer, CNN historian, Leah Wright-Rigueur, and Carole Radziwill, family member and close friend of JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette.
So Lisa, in 1995 John launched "George" Magazine. You were a writer there. I confess, I still have my inaugural copy, the very first issue.
LISA DEPAULO, FORMER "GEORGE" MAGAZINE WRITER: I'm so glad.
BERMAN: What was it like to work there since I will never know? Since I didn't get hired.
DEPAULO: Well, you eventually got over the, oh my God, I'm writing for John Kennedy, too. You get over that because he was so down to earth and so humble. And he also, as soon as you met him, he took the elephant out of the room somehow. Like the day I met him, there was a portrait of his father leaning against the wall. I was like, oh my God.
You know, and he asked where I was from, I'm originally from Scranton, and he said, oh, that's the last place, that's very special to me. It's the last place my father went before the election. And I said, wow, I didn't know that. And -- but he took the -- he brought it up first, you know, and made me feel so comfortable. But he did this all the time. I'd see him walk down the street and people would be -- well first of all they'd say John John and he would say --
STEVE GILLON, FRIEND AND BIOGRAPHER OF JOHN F. KENNEDY JR.: John Nuts.
DEPAULO: Yeah.
BERMAN: Tell me about that.
GILLON: Oh, he hated being called John John.
DEPAULO: Yeah, yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
DEPAULO: He would say John is, one John One John is sufficient.
GILLON: One John is sufficient, he would say.
DEPAULO: Yeah, it was so funny.
GILLON: You know, it was a name that was given to him when he was a baby and he's a grown man now. He just didn't want to be called John John anymore. And it was the one thing, you know, if you wanted to get under John's skin, one thing that would get under his skin consistently would be if someone just yelled out, hey, John John.
DEPAULO: Yeah, yeah.
GILLON: And he would either just ignore it or he grumble or he'd just say, you know, one John is sufficient. I think one of the great things about John was he was able to distinguish all the stuff that was going on around him from who he really was.
So, he played the role. People wonder why he became an actor. He's been acting his whole life. He played the role of John F. Kennedy Jr. and he was always gracious. He was always kind of -- people would come up to him, the most, you'd be in the locker room, you know, going to take a shower and people would come up and give them their phone number, you know, not for that reason.
BERMAN: Or that, too. GILLION: But you know, they had a great idea, they wanted to share with him or something like that and he always was gracious about it. Just don't call him John John.
BERMAN: What were they like as a couple?
CAROLE RADZIWILL, FAMILY MEMBER AND CLOSE FRIEND OF JFK JUNIOR AND CAROLYN BESSETTE: When they got married, you know, it was -- it was, the two of them together were non-stop -- approached non-stop.
(CROSSTALK)
RADZIWILL: Yeah, but they were private, like for the whole time up until they got married, it was -- they had a great private life.
BERMAN: So private. Then let me ask you like the billion dollar question he was asked, any chance that anyone ever had which is -- let me ask you, from the outside, professor. What do you think would happen if he had run for office one day?
LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL HISTORIAN: I think he would have won in a landslide. I think that the question -- the perpetual unanswered question, what kind of politician would he have been? Would he, you know, and I think that that's obvious. I mean, one of the, towards the end of his life, he was doing a series of interviews and he was asked, you know, why haven't you gone into politics yet? And the point that I thought was really remarkable in the interview was, he said, who says I'm not going into politics, right?
[22:55:02]
It was about setting up, I think, setting up a portrait of who he had become. We all remember the iconic, you know, three-year-old who's standing as his father's casket and, you know, is passing by and who salutes. But we had to get to know the man. And so, I think, we're talking, we're certainly talking Senator Kennedy, but maybe we're also talking President Kennedy.
(CROSSTALK)
DEPAULO: He would -- he would already be a former president. He would already be a former president.
(CROSSTALK)
DEPAULO: And he'd have a few kids.
BERMAN: Yes or no, do you think he would have run?
DEPAULO: Yes.
GILLON: He was definitely going run. He was, you know, part of his journey that he was going through, he did not want to go into politics unless he knew it was something he wanted to do. And he was doing it because he was driven to do it. And he was part of the tragedy. When he died, he was about -- he was looking at the governor's race in New York. He wanted to be an executive. He knew how bored his dad had been in the Senate. And I think then he'd run for president after that if --
DEPAULO: If he had lived, our country, the world, but our country would be so much better off.
BERMAN: I've got to say I've learned so much in this discussion. Everything you think you know, there's always more to learn. Thank you all so much. The new CNN Original Series, "American Prince JFK, Junior" premieres Saturday at 9 P.M. right here on CNN. Thank you all so much.
GILLON: Thank you. Thank you, John.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
