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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Orders National Guard to Stay in D.C. Through Fall; Morale of National Guard Troops Sinks While in D.C. Streets; Trump White House Meets With Mayor Eric Adams (D-New York City, NY) About Exiting, Joining Admin. "NewsNight" Talks About Alleged Job Offer of Trump to Mayor Eric Adams; "NewsNight" Discusses RFK Jr. Hearing on Vaccine Misinformation. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 04, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, as Washington sues Trump over his takeover, the morale of the troops in the streets is sinking.
Plus, from Gotham to government, the White House officially meddles in New York's mayoral race, while the socialist front runner challenges Trump to a debate.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'd prefer not to have a communist mayor of New York City.
PHILLIP: Also, the man in charge of the nation's health gets a dose of reality.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): You are a hazard.
SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): You're a charlatan. That's what you are.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): How can you be that ignorant?
PHILLIP: Republicans join Democrats in calling RFK uphill.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: We are the sickest country in the world.
PHILLIP: And generation grift, the billions keep pouring in for MAGA's first family and Junior has a defense.
DONALD TRUMP JR., PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SON: Maybe you shouldn't have tried to sue us into oblivion over nothing.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Hal Lambert, Congressman Roanna, Betsy McCaughey, Xochitl Hinojosa and Roy Wood Jr.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about. Donald Trump's takeover is getting longer. In a provocative move tonight, the Army is extending the National Guard's presence in Washington, D.C., through at least November. That is past the original 30-day order, which was aimed at fighting crime.
But this comes on the same day that the city is suing the administration for sending the troops to act as local police, alleging that it violates the Constitution. And speaking of those troops, CNN reports tonight that morale is starting to sink in among those forces. They're questioning their presence in the first place, what their jobs are, and the treatment that they're receiving on the ground.
In D.C., obviously, crime has gone down since this has been in place, but that's only been for a period of about three weeks. So, the question is what happens after? And it's interesting that the Trump administration seems to be signaling that they are not going to go to Congress to try to extend President Trump's emergency.
And I wonder, Congressman Khanna, what you think that signals about what they think will happen if they do?
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): I wonder if President Trump ran for the wrong job because he seems to really want to be mayor. I mean, if he really wants to deal with the streets, he should run with mayor. He wants to run against Mamdani, he should run for mayor. I'd rather he focus on the economy. I'd rather he focus on Gaza and bringing peace. I'd rather he focus on Ukraine. But this country does not want militarizing the streets.
And, by the way, have you noticed, St. Louis and Memphis, two of the highest crime areas, no talk there. Why? Because they're Republican governors. He's only doing this with Democratic governors. So, it's unconstitutional and it's not focused on what the American people elected him to do.
BETSY MCCAUGHEY (R), FORMER NEW YORK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: It definitely is constitutional. In fact, the United States Supreme Court ruled in 1827 and Martin versus Mott that it was up to the president to decide when such an emergency existed that would justify using the National Guard or the militia locally and domestically. And it said specifically that whenever a constitutional right of a group of citizens is at stake, that would constitute an emergency.
I think when I look at these Democratic cities where people are afraid to leave their homes, where their property is constantly at risk, where they can't even walk their children to school or get on a subway, their constitutional rights illustrates --
KHANNA: Well, why (INAUDIBLE) a Republican governor?
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know. I live in D.C. I don't know who else on in this table is. I'm not scared to walk my kids to school. We are -- they're actually terrorizing families right now. There was a phone call --
MCCAUGHEY: That's preposterous.
HINOJOSA: Let me tell you what happened. There was a phone call about one hour ago with 200 moms who are livid that they're terrorizing immigrant children and families on their way to school. And you're sitting here and saying --
MCCAUGHEY: Look, I live in New City and I --
HINOJOSA: You do not I live in Washington, D.C., so you don't know.
MCCAUGHEY: I do know, and I look at the crime statistics in Chicago, in New Orleans, where, in fact, the Trump administration has been welcomed to bring in troops. And it's clear that these Democratic-run cities, the politicians have turned their backs on people, mostly people of color and poorer people, in those cities who are the ones who can't afford security and their lives are at risk. And I think it's an outrage.
[22:05:00]
ROY WOOD JR., CNN HOST: So, what about the citizens in Republican-run cities that are under the same constitutional infringements per the statistics that you're quoting? When does the invasion start in those cities?
MCCAUGHEY: I think that they should, in fact, wherever a city --
KHANNA: Well, Tennessee, where about Missouri?
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, where every cities fails to provide --
(CROSSTALKS)
MCCAUGHEY: The president has justified to do this. Read the decision.
KHANNA: He's only going after Democratic governors.
HAL LAMBERT, FOUNDER AND CEO, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL: The cities that are run by Democrats we know are the problem, okay? You can talk about Republican states, but it's the cities. And D.C. changed their laws to try to limit the ability to put anyone under the age of 25 into jail. They released the nonstop for crimes, and crimes are down, violent crimes are down over 50 percent since Trump did this, okay?
So, it's working and I don't believe that the National Guard, by the way, is getting tired. It's been a couple of weeks. So, I don't believe that story. I don't think it's real. And I think that it's working. And the fear is for Democrat cities is that he might roll this out across the board and then all of a sudden you see crime drop everywhere. And then what do they say? They're going to say, oh my gosh, maybe we --
PHILLIP: You can't roll this out across the board. We know that for a fact. But on the -- hold on. No.
MCCAUGHEY: He can roll it out.
PHILLIP: He cannot --
MCCAUGHEY: If you read the decision --
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
MCCAUGHEY: -- the ninth circuit is going to reverse be Judge Breyer and rule exactly that.
PHILLIP: He cannot use the same authority. What he did in D.C., he can only do, because D.C. is a federal city.
MCCAUGHEY: That is untrue.
PHILLIP: That if he's going to do it in other --
MCCAUGHEY: Read the Supreme Court decision.
PHILLIP: If he's going to do it in other parts of the country, he's going to have to use different authorities and it's going to be a different bar that is set there. I'm not saying it is impossible but it's not going to be as easy as it was in D.C.
MCCAUGHEY: But it's not unconstitutional.
PHILLIP: Now, on that story that you're saying is fake, let me read a little bit more from what it says. One soldier from Tennessee told his father that from 4:00 P.M. to 4:00 A.M. every day, his only task is to walk around Chinatown. During a call to his wife, a Guardsman from Louisiana said there was confusion about what the military was actually doing there. We haven't gotten critically low on morale, but we're falling fast, said one soldier, who, like others, quoted for the story, spoke to CNN on the condition of anonymity.
One of the reasons that you're getting comments like this is because that is actually the predicament that the National Guard in particular is in. They are there and they're a force, they're in uniform. So, perhaps that's a deterrent. But they are limited in what they can do. I mean, this is according to the Army themselves, that their mission is to provide a visible presence in key areas as a deterrent. They can't arrest, they can't search, they can't direct law enforcement. So, there are limits here and there are costs.
And I just wonder how long will we do this? How long will we have them there as sort of mascots to public safety when that is almost like a shortcut to actually dealing with the underlying problem, it seems?
KHANNA: It's over a million dollars a day. It is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court will rule that way.
MCCAUGHEY: I'd like you to cite case. I'd like you to cite the case with the Supreme Court rule that -- KHANNA: It's the Constitution. And the Supreme Court has said there's a reason that he's not taking on any Republican governors. You don't think there's crime in Ohio? There's a Republican governor. He is not taking him on. You don't think there's crime in Tennessee? Republican governor, not taking him on. Missouri, Republican governor. Who is he going after? Wes Moore, Democratic governor, Pritzker Democratic governor. Why? Because they want to run for president. It's all political.
PHILLIP: Well, he could, I mean, sort of to your point. But, I mean, I think the point that the congressman is making is that Trump could simply ask the Republican governors to activate their National Guard. He doesn't have to force them to do anything. He could ask them. And, presumptively, they would say, yes. He hasn't done that. Why?
MCCAUGHEY: He did that in Louisiana.
PHILLIP: No, he didn't. He has not done that in Louisiana.
MCCAUGHEY: The governor of Louisiana expressed his willingness to have the National Guard.
PHILLIP: Okay, but has it happened?
LAMBERT: It's been a couple of weeks. Who says it's not going to happen?
PHILLIP: I'm just saying it has not happened.
LAMBERT: I mean, so, you'll be happy when he does it. If he does it, you'll be okay with it.
KHANNA: He's using -- he's politicized the federal government. He's politicized -- the no. Well, yes. Well, that's exactly his view. He's politicized it when it comes to the independence of the Fed. He's politicized it when it comes to vaccines. He's politicized it when it comes to prosecuting John Bolton because he is a fed --
MCCAUGHEY: Well, Ro, do you think the crime rate in Chicago is acceptable, the number of shootings over the Labor Day weekend, the number of deaths?
KHANNA: No. I think we should have better crime (ph). And I think if Donald Trump wanted to solve crime, he should have run for mayor of New York or mayor of whatever city.
MCCAUGHEY: No, I don't think he should leave it to others.
KHANNA: He is militarizing it. And what he is not focused on is consumer confidence down in his seven months, manufacturing down in his seven months, inflation up, the farm closures up. He's got a failed economic record. 70 percent of Americans no longer believe in the American dream. His economic record is under 40 percent. His poll numbers are in the tank.
(CROSSTALKS) LAMBERT: We have 3 percent GDP growth. We have a record stock market. What are you talking about?
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Roy, in Los Angeles, the cost of these National Guard deployments has hit $120 million for the 89 days that they were deployed in D.C.
[22:10:02]
It's estimated to be, as you said, a million dollars a day. So, let's call it $24 million for the less than a month that they've been in place. Do you think that's sustainable? How long?
WOOD: It's not sustainable.
PHILLIP: Will we be willing to pay this like actual financial costs?
WOOD: If the federal government were serious about lowering crime rates, then there will be a commitment to more longer term programs that enrich the community. When you look at Baltimore, when you look at Birmingham and you look at some of the programs that those mayors implemented, it got the murder rate down. So, if we're going to spend a bunch of money for people who pledge to protect this country in times of danger, but instead they're picking a paper in Chinatown, then maybe that money would be better spent going into program.
If you're serious about the long-term effects of reducing crime, standing Guardsmen on the corner, you'd be better off just putting one of them wacky car -- used car dealership, put that out. That would be as effective in the long run.
PHILLIP: To your point, look, everybody -- I don't think anybody disagrees that crime is an issue that needs to be addressed, but wouldn't -- are you interested in a long-term solution to this or is just about (INAUDIBLE) in this moment?
MCCAUGHEY: (INAUDIBLE) local Democratic politicians who oppose incarceration, who oppose, for example, a pretrial incarceration of anyone arrested for a misdemeanor, who oppose bail, who oppose things that we know are essential to keep criminals, repeat criminals off the streets, and yet they refuse to support these kinds of policy changes.
So, what is the president to do? He can move in the National Guard and create at least an appearance, a suggestion of more safety and order on the streets. And if I were a young mother walking the streets and worried the children were going to be shot, which is a very realistic worry in Chicago, just look at the Labor Day statistics just a week ago, I think that's a very constructive view.
PHILLIP: But hold on. But hold on, Roy. I mean, I do think that there's something -- look, the D.C. City Council did have a spate of years where they were doing all kinds of things in the name of social justice and, you know, criminal justice reform. And the consequence of that has been the takeover of the D.C. Police Department because crime did get out of hand. So, I mean, there is a lesson here, I think, for Democrats in going too far and not paying attention to the thing right in front of them, which is the quality of life of people that they serve.
HINOJOSA: Yes. I think that violent crime in our nation, and especially in D.C. has been a problem. It goes -- it's on and off. Every decade or so, there constantly is a problem with violent crime in Washington D.C. Do I agree? Do the Democrats need to say, yes, we are against violent crime and here is our solution? Absolutely. But the way to do it is not just by military force for show.
PHILLIP: Yes, and I get that, but I'm just saying -- I'm saying is should there be an acknowledgement that some of the things that they did to signal a desire to reform criminal justice did not do what they intended and perhaps actually exacerbated the problems for the very people -- look, the victims of crime in D.C. are black and brown people who are hurt. And the young people who are running around in the streets, aimless, whatever it is, carjacking, those people are both the perpetrators and the victims of a system that does not help them. And I don't hear enough of Democrats acknowledging maybe we should have done something better about that.
KHANNA: Look, in my district, Fremont, Sunnyville, San Jose are among the top 25 safest cities in the country. But we -- I acknowledge that in places in California, the pendulum went too far. And you know what happened? There were people who ran for mayor, like Matt Mayhan and Dan Lurie in San Francisco, and they won on a public safety platform.
So, if you think that Chicago crime rates are too high and that the mayor hasn't done a good job, we have a system in this country. You run for mayor and you offer a public safety agenda. You don't federalize the military and put the military on the streets. That's called federalism. That's what our founders envisioned. And that's my problem. That's why I started out by saying he ran for the wrong office. He doesn't know anything about the world on foreign affairs. He doesn't know anything about the economy. He's obsessed with crime and he's in the wrong job.
PHILLIP: All right, we got to leave it there for this one.
Coming up next, more breaking news tonight, the president officially wants to clear the field in the New York City mayoral race and to stop the socialist frontrunner from winning, that's Zohran Mamdani. And he is challenging Trump now to a debate. We'll talk about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Remember when we told you that the White House was thinking about offering Eric Adams a job to block the socialist, Zohran Mamdani, from becoming New York City's next mayor? Well, Adams denied it. His campaign denied it. But the president, President Trump, he is not hiding his intentions tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I'd prefer not to have a communist mayor of New York City. And, you know, that's what he is based on his policy, if you look at his statements in the past. So, I would like to see two people drop out and have it be one-on-one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Sources tell CNN that Adams secretly met with one of President Trump's most trusted advisers to talk about potential new gigs.
[22:20:01]
And tonight, The New York Times is also reporting that Adams is seriously considering dropping out of the race following that meeting.
This has escalated very quickly since all the denials yesterday. Now, there's talk of, you know, Middle Eastern ambassadorships, federal jobs, private sector jobs maybe, and all of that in the interest of trying to clear the field for Andrew Cuomo.
But, again, I ask will this actually help Cuomo or will this backfire in Trump's face? I don't know.
WOOD: Saying that they may offer Eric Adams job going to Turkey? Where in Europe?
PHILLIP: I don't know.
WOOD: Okay. I'm just asking.
MCCAUGHEY: I'm very sympathetic with the president on this because I believe that a Mamdani mayoralty would bring about the financial collapse of New York and also criminal bedlam. It would be, in both cases, a disaster for New York City.
So, my organization, savenyc.org, formed by the former police commissioner, Ray Kelly, and I, we are collecting large amounts of money to maximize turnout against Mamdani in November. Right now, we're counting on a four-person race. But even then, he got 469,000 votes in the primary. In a low turnout race, that would be a winning number. But if turnout gets to 50 percent, which is a very plausible goal, he does not win. 469 is no longer the winning number. It'll be 592,000 and more likely that someone else will get it.
So, even in a four-way race, it's possible to defeat Mamdani, but I fully support the president's --
PHILLIP: So, let me just play this because I think this is -- you will enjoy this, okay? So, just -- this is the Zohran Mamdani talking about a debate that he wants to have with the president. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: Let's cut out the middleman. Why should I debate Donald Trump's puppet when I could debate Donald Trump himself? If Donald Trump is serious about this, he should come to New York City. We can have as many debates as he want about why he is cutting SNAP benefits for hungry New Yorkers just to fund tax cuts for his billionaire donors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I would watch that.
HINOJOSA: It would be great T.V.
PHILLIP: I would watch that.
KHANNA: The only one causing the financial collapse of New York is Donald Trump. Do you see the jobs report in August? 54,000 jobs, it's about as -- where we were in 2009.
Now, if you want to beat Mamdani fair and square, mobilize folks, fine. The problem is you can't beat them fair and square. You've got billionaires talking to Donald Trump to try to engineer the election to push people out. Why can't you just compete with your ideas? Instead what you have is a guy who said, I want to help bring the cost of childcare down, I want to bring rents down --
LAMBERT: So, you've endorsed him?
KHANNA: I have to endorsed him.
LAMBERT: Wow.
KHANNA: I want to bring grocery prices down. And it's resonating and people can't (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALKS)
LAMBERT: Of course, I've watched him say it.
KHANNA: He's never said that.
LAMBERT: 100 percent he did.
KHANNA: The billionaires went to Donald Trump. The billionaires are upset and they're trying to rig the election. Just play fair and square.
MCCAUGHEY: Let me tell you who's really upset. There are over a million New Yorkers, civil servants, retirees, teachers, cops who live in co-ops and condos in the outer boroughs. They are really upset and they are the voting group we are targeting the most.
KHANNA: Fine. But Mamdani -- why can't you win on the merits? Why are you trying to engineer people out of the race?
PHILLIP: I mean, I do think that -- I think --
LAMBERT: It's a sad state of affairs for New York City. It's the evil of two lesser -- (CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: But don't you think that if this was so distasteful to so many New Yorkers, they hate socialism so much, this is so extreme, why would Trump have to come up with a scheme to basically get people out of the race, maybe pay the -- get them paid in a private sector job or whatever? Why would he even have to do that if the ideas are so reprehensible on their face?
LAMBERT: Well, because you have a third of New Yorkers that don't feel they're reprehensible. And that's the sad state of New York. And that's the problem. So, he's got a third of the vote and then you have other candidates splitting the rest of the vote.
And so you try to get this to a one-on-one, he probably could -- you know, he'd probably lose that if it goes down to Cuomo, which, by the way, I thought was a terrible governor. I think he did a terrible job during COVID, but that's what we're stuck with.
And so, you know, that's what they're going to try to do, is get it down to a Cuomo-Mamdani race and see what happens. It still may be tough.
MCCAUGHEY: I'd like to say to our viewers, if you're opposed to Mamdani for mayor, please come to savenyc.org. Please come to savenyc.org.
HINOJOSA: No, this is going to backfire on Trump. A Cuomo-Mamdani race is not going to -- it'll only be good for Mamdani. What I think is just hilarious about this entire story is life comes at you fast when you're Eric Adams. You know, just last year, he was indicted by his own political party.
[22:25:01]
And, you know, when you talk about criminals, it's Eric Adams who actually had a grand jury who indicted him.
LAMBERT: And you can't oppose the Biden administration as Democrat, or you're going to get indicted.
HINOJOSA: No. They actually indicted.
(CROSSTALKS)
HINOJOSA: I don't know what you're talking about.
PHILLIP: I thought that the argument was that the Biden administration was engaged in lawfare, but then also, you know, Hal, do you remember that Trump dropped the charges in basically a deal to get Eric Adams' cooperation on immigration.
HINOJOSA: And, you know, we also prosecuted Hunter Biden and, you know, we were political, as the Republicans like to say, because it fits their narrative. But when it comes to Eric Adams, there were actual serious criminal charges. A grand jury indicted him. Trump wanted something out of him. Trump got what he wanted out of him when it came to immigration and dropped the charges, and career people resigned. And now you have him potentially going to the Middle East. I don't know.
PHILLIP: Okay. Do you think, Roy, that one of the reasons that Trump is so engaged here, this is in the back of my mind, does he see the appeal of Mamdani? Does he see a little bit of himself of what he was able to accomplish? Because, let's be honest --
WOOD: I don't think he admires him.
PHILLIP: Trump -- I don't think he admires him, but I think Trump is -- he knows very well how to throw something truly outrageous into the political sphere, get a lot of people to believe in it and win.
WOOD: Correct.
PHILLIP: He won on some of those outrageous ideas.
WOOD: And I think in that regard, Trump sees an idea. Trump sees a legitimate storm form -- a potential political storm forming off the coast of Mamdani that could grow into something much bigger. So, of course, he's going to try and undermine it now before it gets to that point.
MCCAUGHEY: I'm shocked that you think that Mamdani could be an adequate mayor. First of all, he has no experience --
PHILLIP: He never said that. Did I say that?
WOOD: He just said he got the streets. He has appeals.
MCCAUGHEY: He's never won except the five-person office up in the assembly.
PHILLIP: I didn't say anything of the --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: All I said was this is about politics, right? Yes. And the idea that Mamdani has taken ideas that you and many other people think are completely outrageous, that are so extreme, and he is -- he went from nobody knows who this guy is to being the probable next mayor of the city is something that only a few people do. And one of the people who did that type of thing was Donald Trump. That's my point.
MCCAUGHEY: You're very perceptive to point that out. But I would say also that the rise of Mamdani in this primary reflects two things, a pathetic failure of our education system that so many of these young people who turned out to support Mamdani, haven't reasoned in their own minds what his crime policies will do to make the streets so unsafe, what his freeze the rent policies will do to turn New York literally into a slum within ear (ph) as this housing stock becomes totally --
LAMBERT: Don't forget, take over the grocery stores. Take over grocery stores too.
KHANNA: Because I think I never criticized the people who voted for Donald Trump. I never insult their intelligence. I think they're honorable fellow Americans. And for you to insult the intelligence of people who voted for Mamdani --
MCCAUGHEY: Not their intelligence.
(CROSSTALKS)
KHANNA: I condemned Clinton when she used deplorables, and you are basically saying that people who voted for Mamdani are stupid, shame on you. Shame on you. You should apologize.
MCCAUGHEY: I will not apologize because I'm absolutely right. When you listen to these 30-year-olds think they'd freeze the rent --
KHANNA: They have more moral ideology and they're more --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Can I give you another example just so you understand the other perspective, right? You know, there are many people who would say that if you agree with Donald Trump's view of tariffs, for example, that other countries are paying for them, which is not what is happening, then you don't understand basic economics.
So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, many people on the other side of that issue who are conservatives and liberals or whatever they are, might say that is a complete misreading of the issue and that it's actually contrary to like basic economics. And yet the president is saying it, many of his supporters believe it. Would you be okay with calling those people stupid?
MCCAUGHEY: No. What I'm telling you that what -- when they listen to Zohran Mamdani say, I'm going to freeze the rent every year that I'm mayor made. That's just fine both, It's a totally impractical.
PHILLIP: Bad economics on housing, bad economics on taxes and tariffs.
MCCAUGHEY: Dangerous ideas, perverse ideas.
PHILLIP: Bad economics and dangerous economics maybe, let's -- just to right concede that point to you. I'm not saying that, you're saying that, on housing, bad economics, dangerous economics on tariffs.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes.
PHILLIP: Why is one more stupid than the other?
LAMBERT: Well, why -- okay, you're bringing tariffs, but, I mean, they're dangerous.
PHILLIP: The question is, why is one more stupid and dangerous than the other? [22:30:00]
LAMBERT: Well, she said uneducated, not stupid.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: So, I mean she talked about the educational system.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, why is one more uneducated or dangerous than the other?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: No, I mean, why is one more -- I mean, why is it --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- is your view that the only thing that matters is your view on how housing should be managed by the government but not anybody else's view on let's say how tariffs are taxes?
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: Again --
PHILLIP: And that maybe the President shouldn't be doing them unilaterally.
LAMBERT: Well, the President did tariffs in his first term and we didn't have inflation go up from tariffs, okay? So, that statement has not been proven.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He didn't do anything near the scale of what he's doing right now.
LAMBERT: But what has been proven is when the government runs grocery stores or freezes rent or tries to do rent controls, or tries to do all of these talking on things --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: And we have a House in all of them and --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: They exist, actually, Hal.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: I know and they don't work.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, FORMER DOJ PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIRECTOR: And talking about the education system and how these people have a terrible education, and that is why they voted for Mamdani is not how you went over voters. You went over voters by talking about the reasons why Mamdani won. Why did he win? Because they believe right is too high. They can't afford it. They can't afford groceries at the grocery store.
UNKNOWN: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: They don't -- their paychecks are going to child care, to basic needs and they don't have the money that the people around this table have.
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: And so, I will say that if you actually want to win voters instead of this kooky business that Trump is doing to try to get Eric Adams out on do a switch everyone here, then actually talk to voters about what they care about. And so far Trump hasn't done that. And that's why Republicans' approval rating is so low.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, the last word here.
LAMBERT: I'll make you a deal. If you do a direct to camera ad saying Mamdani's voters are uneducated, I'll find you the donors to put it on television.
UNKNOWN: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, all right guys. Next for us.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: RFK Jr. faced a grilling on Capitol Hill over vaccines and CDC firings. The special guest is going to be with us at the table to break it all down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:36:31]
PHILLIP: The man in charge of the nation's health is facing a grilling on Capitol Hill over his dismantling of the healthcare system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D) GEORGIA: You are a hazard to the health of the American people.
(CROSSTALK) WARNOCK: No.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: You're making things up to scare people, and it's a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D) NEW HAMPHIRE: I don't think -- with respect, I do not think I'm the one making things up. Mr. Chair.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY, JR.: You are lying.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Did you hold up a big sign saying that you were lying when you said that?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D) MISSOURI: So, let me ask you, when were you lying, Sir? Take a look at what you are doing.
SEN. BEN RAY LUJAN (D) NEW MEXICO: It's clear you're not listening to qualified experts.
SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D) WASHINGTON: You're a charlatan. That's what you are. You're the ones who conflate chronic disease with the need for vaccines.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: R.F.K. Jr. sparred with senators in perhaps one of the more combative congressional hearings all-year. Democrats confronted him on vaccines, his recent CDC shakeups, and COVID. But it wasn't just the Democrats, and this is the important part. Some of the same Republicans who helped elect or put Kennedy in his position are now showing signs of wavering.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R) WYOMING: I support vaccines. I'm a doctor. Vaccines work. Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines. Since then, I've grown deeply concerned.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R) NORTH CAROLINA: Mr. Kennedy, you've stayed at multiple times in response to other members' questions that scientists were lying. I'd just like to see the scientific evidence to substantiate that.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R) LOUISIANA: I would say, effectively, we're denying people vaccine.
UNKNOWN: Senator Cantwell.
KENNEDY JR.: You're wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Joining us at the table is Dr. Syra Madad, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Harvard's Kennedy School. Dr. Madad, I mean, this is maybe the worst case scenario that I'm really worried about. And it was interesting to me that Kennedy, so many times in this hearing, denied saying things that he did in fact say, which is a pattern for him.
He denied that he was an anti-vax in his confirmation hearings. He has said many times that he doesn't believe that there's any safe vaccine. So, what did you make of that kind of almost duplicitousness that was on display?
SYRA MADAD, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGIST, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL: It was very painful to watch. He was very dismissive, very combative and just spewing his conspiracy theories, his rhetoric, his anti- vaccine sentiments again and again and again. And bottom line is he's putting American babies, he's putting American elders, he's putting all Americans at risk here. This is the health of America and he's playing, you know, playing games with it. This is unacceptable.
PHILLIP: He also, he appointed a bunch of vaccine skeptics, people who had spread vaccine misinformation to the CDC board. And there was an exchange with Michael Bennett of Colorado that I thought was honestly pretty stunning. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D) COLORADO: Are you aware that one of the people you put on the panel, Dr. Robert Malone, claimed that the commonly used mRNA vaccine, quote, "causes a form of AIDS" and can damage children's, quote, "brains, their heart, their immune system and their ability to have children in the future." Yes or no, Mr. Kennedy?
KENNEDY JR.: And Dr. Malone is one of the inventors of the --
BENNET: Yes no? Yes or no? Are you -- were you aware that he had that view when you appointed him to this panel?
KENNEDY JR.: Dr. Malone is one of the inventors. As I said, Dr. Malone is one of the inventors of the MRA vaccine.
[22:40:00]
(CROSSTALK)
BENNET: That statement -- Mr. Chairman, that statement is not true -- that Dr. Malone made. Just as it wasn't true when you wrote that quote, "African AIDS is entirely different from Western AIDS."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Appointed to a CDC vaccine board. I mean, this is why there were all these resignations. But I don't know, in a way, this hearing, I'm not sure what the point was because it's too late. The Senate confirmed him. Some of those same senators who were complaining today about RFK's well-known positions confirmed him.
REP. RO KHANNA (D) MEMBER, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: You know, it's so sad and the doctors know this. MRNA is just a technology. All it means is that the instructions are put in the body so that the body can make the proteins and the proteins aren't manufactured outside. It's what allowed us to make the COVID vaccine as fast. It's what allows us to do a lot of cancer vaccines. It's what's going to allow us to have a universal flu vaccine.
And it's just so sad that the greatest nation in terms of medical research and innovation is adopting a flat earth position. And I don't even know if Senator Kennedy knows what mRNA is. It has nothing to do with COVID. It's one of the greatest advances. The person won the Nobel Prize for it.
BETSY MCCAUGHEY (R) FORMER NEW YORK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: But there is a bigger issue here. And let me say, I am totally pro-vaccine. All of my children were vaccinated for childhood diseases, and my six grandchildren, as well. But Kennedy has a point about this.
The CDC, I call it the Centers for Disaster and Confusion, has been one of the most failed agencies in the federal government. Since 2014, it has presided over a constant decline of American life expectancy. He pointed that out in the hearing. My organization, the Committee --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Is that because of the CDC?
MCCAUGHEY: Well, they are --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The decline in the life expectancy of Americans is because of the CDC?
MCCAUGHEY: The CDC has failed to take action on some of the reasons Americans are so unhealthy. Let me just finish it. I want this organization that fights --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, before you finish --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: But hold on a second -- hold on a second, Betsy. Before you finish, I think we need to deal with that.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, we do need TO DEAL WITH THAT.
PHILLIP: You're saying it's the Centers for Disease Control. So, Dr. Madad, talk to us about whether or not infectious diseases are what are driving deaths the life expectancy in this country. Are they?
MADAD: So, when we look at chronic illnesses and infectious disease, yes, they are some of the top 10 causes of death here in the United States. Now, let me be very clear. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is a gem, is a jewel here in the United States, and not just here in the U.S., but also around the world. And vaccines in particular have been one of the biggest medical achievements that have added to life expectancy. Decades of --
MCCAUGHEY: I told you, I was pro-vaccine, but here's what the CDC has failed to do. It has failed to establish high enough standards for hospital hygiene, and when it investigates an outbreak at a hospital, I'll give you two recent examples, MRSA in the neo-natal intensive care unit in a hospital right outside Chicago and another one in Los Angeles.
The CDC in its report calls it Hospital A, Hospital B, hiding the truth from the public to protect the hospital's reputation. If you are --
(CROSSTALK)
MADAD: That's not true. That's not true. So, local health departments also publish the names of the hospitals. And on top of that, CDC doesn't control hospitals. They're a regulatory body. They provide guidance. And their guidance is found and based on science and evidence.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I actually -- listen. I think that --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I think that --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: You don't know that neo-natal intensive care in medical hospitals --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You're raising a very important issue about hospital safety. I'm -- there's no question --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: They have failed us.
PHILLIP: That is a very important issue. But I also think it is a bit of a distraction from what is actually happening over at the CDC --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: The CDC has failed in some of the funding --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: It is far from perfect.
HAL LAMBERT, POINT BRIDGE CAPITAL FOUNDER AND CEO: I find it fascinating that Democrats are so in bed with Big Pharma these days. Big Pharma used to be the enemy. Big Pharma -- I remember the Democrats railing on Big Pharma for years about all the fees they're charging and they're ripping off the American people. And now, it's all about we've got to get as many vaccines approved as possible.
Big Pharma makes a ton of money on those. They're not doing the testing. That's what Bobby Kennedy's problem with it is. They're not doing the testing. They're just rolling out new vaccines.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: And Kennedy is saying --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: -- to the fact that --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on, hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I just want Dr. Madad to address that because you just claimed that they're not testing vaccine.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: They're not doing full tests. You know that. They're not doing blind - that's what he's talked about over and over again.
(CROSSTALK)
MADAD: So, when we talk about vaccines and we talk about flu vaccines and COVID-19 vaccines, you don't have to go through the same clinical trials over and over again if you're just updating the vaccine. We do that for seasonal flu every year and there hasn't been any issues. The -- when these vaccines were first made, they have gone through the entire process of pre-clinical, clinical, large studies and they're constantly being monitored.
[22:45:01]
So, they have gone through their full process here. And anytime you're updating a vaccine, you certainly don't have to go through the clinical trials again, because you know that the technology and the vaccine, which you're just tweaking it a little bit, and you're helping save multiple lives, millions of lives.
LAMBERT: How many children under the age of five died from COVID?
MADAD: There were thousands. There were thousands. And let me also mention that just this past flu season, this has been the highest number of pediatric deaths in a non-pandemic year, just dying from seasonal flu. And we talk about the vaccine rates for children, it's been less than about 50 percent. So we need to get more children vaccinated.
PHILLIP: Let me just get Roy in for a second because listen, the trust issue is a big one.
ROY WOOD JR., COMEDIAN: Yeah, and I understand.
PHILLIP: And it's a real one. It's not that -- that part is real. I mean, it's exacerbated by a lot of misinformation and lies, but it is still real.
WOOD JR.: I mean, every -- most Americans, even myself, when I got the COVID vaccine so I could get my card and be allowed in the grocery store, you go, they made that a little fast. And maybe you can ask that question about that particular vaccine, even if you don't know that, which I know -- I know nothing about science.
How do you get from that to all of us going, yes, the measles vaccine that's been around for decades gives you African and Western AIDS. You can't go from here to there and logically be okay with Bobby Kennedy saying and hiring people who beg that type of rhetoric.
PHILLIP: Because --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: I am pro-vaccine, but I'd like to the CDC substantially improve to 100,000 Americans die from hospital infections every year. The CDC should be doing its job.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I agree with you that that's a big issue. I wish that that's what Bobby Kennedy was focused on. In fact, it would be totally cool with, I think, many Americans, if he took his focus on getting Americans to eat healthier, getting them to -- getting crap out of our food and out, you know, chemicals out of our drinking water -- if he worked on those things in a scientific rigorous way, I think a lot of people would be behind him. But there is also this conspiratorial nature of it. You called it the flat earth part of it --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: But let me ask --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- that I think is dominating a lot of the talk about vaccines and about what is causing these illnesses, like even things like autism.
KHANNA: Let me ask both of you. Fine, you have a problem with the CDC, you want reformers. Very simply, do you agree with Bobby Kennedy's view that we shouldn't be funding or approving anything with mRNA? And do you agree with his view that he's firing people because of their vaccine policy?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Hal. Go ahead, Hal.
LAMBERT: Why can't the companies they're making billions of dollars off these vaccines funded? Why does -- why do taxpayers have to fund that?
PHILLIP: Fund what?
LAMBERT: He said the $500 million for mRNA research.
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: It's not just that the funding, they're not approving it. They're not approving the FDA. They're not approving it. There's an mRNA vaccine for universal flu in my district. They can't get approval. They're going to have to use recombinant DNA and older technology because of Kennedy. I guess my question for you is simply, do you agree with Kennedy's view that we should not be approving things with mRNA and his firing of people who have said that they disagree with his vaccine policy?
LAMBERT: Well, I don't think that first statement is true, but I -- and I also believe you've got people on the CDC board that he fired that were perfectly fine giving hormones to children to change their sex that were put -- totally untested.
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: But I'm just saying, they're on there. You're saying he's politicizing that panel effectively is what's being claimed here.
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: Do you agree --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: And there's clearly been politicization of that panel already.
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: But you --
(CROSSTALK)
LAMBERT: Because you have positions that --
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: Do you, Betsy, agree with this decision?
(CROSSTALK) MCCAUGHEY: I totally disagree with RFK on vaccines, but I would like to see a much better CDC.
(CROSSTALK)
KHANNA: But we do then call him to step down given the way he's --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: A much better performing CDC --
(CROSSTALK)
MADAD: Based on science and evidence and you need scientists --
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAUGHEY: Of course, I thought Marty Makary was a great choice at the FDA. He has made some wonderful choices, RFK -- Marty Makary, particularly.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, we have to leave it there.
MCCAUGHEY: He's a real patient safety --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much for joining us. I'm going to ask Roy to stick around because he's got to talk about something special that he's got coming. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:53:55]
PHILLIP: It's just you and me, Roy, and the third season of "Have I Got News for You".
WOOD JR.: Yes.
PHILLIP: It premieres this Saturday. So, Roy, give us a preview.
WOOD JR.: We're still trying to figure out what we're going to talk about right now. I'll say this.
PHILLIP: There's shortage of news for you?
WOOD JR.: Well, on Monday, we -- was planning on a totally different show because everybody was wondering where Trump was and now we know that he's okay and making complete sentences.
PHILLIP: You can still make jokes about it.
WOOD JR.: Yeah, yeah, I mean we can now. We can make -- I'm glad he's around. I don't want to deal with no President J.D. Vance. There's a little bit about this Giuliani award. We might talk about that if Giuliani is going to some medal of freedom or whatever it is, he need to pawn it and get the money to the black women who sued him in Georgia because he still owed them some money. And then maybe a little bit in sports. Caitlin Clark is -- she now -- she's not returning.
PHILLIP: Yeah, that's kind of a story.
(CROSSTALK)
WOOD JR.: It's sad because I feel like Caitlin Clark's presence helped to drive a little bit of the discourse. And let's be real about it. America like a nice little racial undertone in the sports coverage.
[22:55:00]
And you lose the white lady and now you just got to focus on --
(CROSSTALK)
WOOD JR.: We got to actually talk about basketball -- arguments.
PHILLIP: That much less interesting.
WOOD JR.: Yeah, but no, it'll be a good time.
PHILLIP: What about your guests? Who do you have this weekend, by the way?
WOOD JR.: We have Dave Foley's coming back and of course the wonderful Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.
PHILLIP: She's always a good time.
WOOD JR.: Yes, she is a good time. She's a ball of energy. Myself, Amber Ruffin, Michael Ian Black. He was in a new Superman movie this summer. Yeah, so we will -- I got to find a clip of Michael Ian Black getting knocked out.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Was about say you better watch yourself because you're going to have to start paying him more.
WOOD JR.: Can we get the clearance for that? This is Warner Brothers. Yeah.
PHILLIP: Yeah, it's all in the family.
WOOD JR.: Give it a Superman clip for my show tomorrow.
PHILLIP: All right, we'll get it for tomorrow.
WOOD JR.: Yeah. PHILLIP: All right everybody, don't miss Roy in the all new season of "Have I Got News for You". It airs this Saturday 9 P.M. right here on CNN. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
