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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Viral Video Claims To Uncover Fraud In Minnesota Somali Community; Immigration Crackdown Continues; Inside Marjorie Taylor Greene's Break With Trump; New Year's Eve Concerts At Kennedy Center Canceled. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired December 29, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Tonight, he has made some bold promises and, in just a few days, the nation will see if Zohran Mamdani is prepared to keep them. The New York City mayor-elect is making his final appointments, and he'll be sworn in on New Year's Eve at midnight in an abandoned subway station under City Hall.
The 34-year-old mayor-elect has pledged to freeze the rent for one million rent-stabilized apartments, providing universal free health care and child care -- universal free child care -- excuse me -- free buses, and city-sponsored grocery stores. His most ambitious proposal though involves taxing the wealthiest New Yorkers, which the mayor traditionally has very little power to do.
So, time will tell if he can accomplish all of those lofty goals.
The second hour of "CNN NewsNight" starts right now.
Tonight, live at the table, Scott Jennings, Jamal Simmons, Pete Seat, and Christine Quinn. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other. But here, they do.
Good evening. Welcome back. I'm Abby Phillip in New York, and this is the second special hour of "NewsNight." Let's get right to what America is talking about, Minnesota migration and Medicaid fraud. After weeks of bubbling under the surface, the welfare fraud scandal has MAGA's attention. YouTube personality Nick Shirley claims that he uncovered more alleged fraud in the Somali community in Minneapolis, and his 42-minute video is going viral online.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK SHIRLEY, YOUTUBE PERSONALITY: These buildings should be operating as they're receiving literally millions of dollars.
(KNOCKING)
SHIRLEY (voice-over): I knocked on the door. And to my surprise, somebody actually answered the door.
SHIRLEY: Hello? Can we speak? I would like to check a child in the day care. UNKNOWN (voice-over): Why?
SHIRLEY: Can I speak to a manager?
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Not here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: CNN has not independently verified the claims. But conservatives are hailing the video as old school investigative reporting. Vice President J.D. Vance says that Shirley is doing -- quote -- "far more useful journalism than Pulitzer Prize winners."
But all of these allegations have been public for a decade. "The Minneapolis Star Tribune" highlights the investigations that stretch back to 2015 when day care centers were raided. And since then, the newspaper has done more than 300 stories on these allegations. Back in 2022, "The New York Times" investigation helped lead to some of the first charges brought by President Biden's DOJ.
But that's not stopping the Trump administration. It says that Homeland Security Department officials are going door to door in Minneapolis to investigate suspected fraud sites. But critics fear it's just a pretext to intensify the immigration crackdown targeting Somalis in Minnesota.
My panel is back with me. The idea that this has not been investigated is completely bunk. That is not true. It not only has it been reported, it is being investigated as the Trump DOJ is actually trying to point out tonight. So, just because conservatives are finding out about something for the first time doesn't make it new and doesn't make it some kind of coverup.
PETE SEAT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN FOR FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I'm not entirely sure that Governor Tim Walz understood exactly the scope of what has been a sophisticated, orchestrated multi-year effort --
PHILLIP: Why was he asked about it?
SEAT: -- that crossed borders.
PHILLIP: Why was he asked about it during the campaign last year --
SEAT: Well --
PHILLIP: -- if he wasn't aware --
SEAT: -- then the next question is, why wasn't he better vetted during the campaign last year?
PHILLIP: I don't know.
SEAT: We're talking about nine billion dollars --
PHILLIP: Republicans were running a presidential campaign against Tim Walz.
SEAT: -- defrauding the state of Minnesota, defrauding American taxpayers.
PHILLIP: Republicans were running a presidential campaign against Tim Walz.
SEAT: He's not denying this fraud happened.
PHILLIP: In 2024, a fraud scandal erupts in Minnesota. Governor Tim Walz's watch. Accountability is in short supply. That's a CNN headline. The middle of the campaign season. Where was all of this outrage then?
SEAT: Well, ask Kamala Harris where the outrage was. Ask why she picked the guy to be her vice-presidential running mate when he couldn't even run his own state appropriately. So, this is a huge epic scandal that he is embroiled in right now. And quite frankly, he should not be running for reelection.
Hopefully, the people of Minnesota turn him back and don't give him that third term. But what's going to matter from a Republican perspective is making sure that we coalesce around a credible candidate who is well funded and can actually get to the --
PHILLIP: Because --
SEAT: -- finish line first. And that candidate sounds like Linda (ph).
PHILLIP: And look, I appreciate -- I appreciate, Pete, that you are being transparent because this is about politics.
[23:05:00]
I get that. Politics is politics. But, you know, honestly, you knock on the door of a day care center and you're like, let me in, let me in.
Right.
PHILLIP: What do you expect people to do? You know, in some of those cases, there were children in there. What do you want people to do in that situation? Open the door and say, come on in, when they know that the Somali community is under attack, is being threatened every single day? What is going on here?
CHRISTINE QUINN, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF WIN, VICE CHAIR OF NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE: Look, if there's fraud there or anywhere else as it relates to Medicaid, it should be rooted out. And whoever is perpetrated, it should be prosecuted. No question. But, you know, in the homeless shelters I run, we have day care centers, if someone just showed up at the door banging to say I want to, you know, bring a child there, we would not let them in. We don't let people who are unauthorized come in to day care centers.
But a big part of this that we also have to note is there was no need for the president to say the horrible things he said about the Somali community, to call the community garbage, to attack the entire community at a time when we've learned what happens if we keep turning up the rhetoric as opposed to turning it down.
Also, this, as you've said, has long been known. Should it have been addressed more by Republicans, Democrats? Perhaps, but let's not make pretend this all happened overnight.
PHILLIP: According to Pam Bondi, 98 individuals have been charged, 85 of them from Somali descent, 60 have been found guilty in court. A lot of that happened in the previous administration, but some of it happened this year. So, again, this idea that nothing is being done, that no one is being held accountable, that this was just let to run rampant is completely false.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, SALEM RADIO HOST, AUTHOR: Well, some people have been held accountable. But I think in the opinion of most Republicans, not nearly enough. And truthfully, until somebody in a position of power, until somebody in a position in Minnesota, elected position who was in charge of administering this or having some oversight over it goes to jail, it's honestly never going to stop.
Look what's going on in blue states across the country. Nine billion in Minnesota, 70 billion in fraud in California, cooking the crime stats in Washington, D.C. When is someone in a position of power going to go --
PHILLIP: OK --
JENNINGS: -- to jail for the rampant fraud?
PHILLIP: But hold on a second.
JENNINGS: You can put all the low-level people in jail you want --
PHILLIP: OK. Trump --
JENNINGS: -- but until somebody in charge goes to jail, it won't stop.
PHILLIP: Trump has pardoned Devon Archer. Sixty million dollars in forfeiture and restitution wiped away. He has pardoned Trevor Milton who committed fraud, lied to his shareholders. Six hundred and sixty million dollar that was supposed to go back to shareholders wiped away. Carlos Watson also defrauded people. Ninety-seven million in penalties wiped away. David Gentile, $1.7 billion in a Ponzi scheme fraud, OK? Sentence commuted.
Again, fraud is bad. Fraud should be prosecuted. The people responsible for it should be prosecuted. But this president is pardoning and commuting the sentence of fraudsters all the time, recently. Where is that energy? Where is that same energy?
JENNINGS: I have no defense for anybody who commits fraud. Fraud is bad. What I am telling you, though, is in the case of these states and locales, this is public money, taxpayer money.
PHILLIP: Sure.
JENNINGS: People get elected.
PHILLIP: There are --
JENNINGS: They're supposed to run a program.
PHILLIP: The DOJ is doing their job every single day.
JENNINGS: And to Pete's point about Tim Walz, the Medicaid program is run by the --
PHILLIP: The DOJ is prosecuting --
JENNINGS: -- brag about putting more money into this day care system that is obviously ripe with fraud.
PHILLIP: -- fraudsters of public funds all the time. DOJ is prosecuting these people all the time. It happens under Republicans. It happens under Democrats. It happens in red states. It happens in blue states.
But the other part of this is an attempt to make this about Somalis in general as opposed to just about the people who are responsible. J.D. Vance: "What's happening in Minnesota is a microcosm of the immigration fraud in our system. Politicians like it because they get power. Welfare cheats like it because they get rich. But it's a zero sum game, and they're stealing both money and political power from Minnesotans."
Lauren Boebert says the fraud should produce mass deportations. It should be a given. "At this point, denaturalization should be fully on the table. Anyone who is afraid to say that is fully on board with the wholesale raping and pillaging of our taxpayer funds at the hands of people who hate our country."
It's not really about the fraud.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER COMMUNICATIOS DIRECTOR TO VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Abby, this is about criminality, not about nationality. And that's the part that gets me upset about, the way that the Republican side is going after this, is that we're focusing on people because of what they look like or where they come from, not based on the actions that they took.
Now, there's a place where we might agree. Democrats have got to get their act together about going after fraud, the same level of strength and vitality about what's wrong and happening inside a government. Now, there are people who are doing it at some level.
[23:10:01]
But we've got to have a level of anger about this because this is public money. And if we are the party that's supposed to be stewarding public money and making sure that it's working well, we have to show the American people that we are going to do whatever it takes to make sure their tax dollars are spent well. So, when we go and we tax these billionaires and we get that other 5 percent out of them, we're going to spend that money well to make sure our kids have a chance to have the best schools and get the best start in life.
JENNINGS: California is going to spend the money well. Good luck, Jamal.
(LAUGHTER)
I wouldn't hold my breath.
QUINN: You know, facts do matter in this, too. This is absolutely an attack on the Somali community and on immigrants writ-large, right, to further say negative things. And most, the vast majority of the Somali residents of Minnesota are citizens. They're not new immigrants. So, this is just a further example of the Trump White House doing everything they can to vilify immigrants.
SEAT: So --
PHILLIP: A majority -- a majority -- hold on.
QUINN: I would prefer they don't -- I would prefer the president not call American citizens garbage.
PHILLIP: A majority are native-born Americans --
QUINN: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- to your point. So, look, I mean, everyone should want accountability here. And there has not been enough, probably. But I also think that there's also not -- there's not honesty happening here. You want to get rid of Tim Walz. That's totally above board, right? Like this is politics. You can run a campaign against someone. But why make Somali people the center of the argument as opposed to what went wrong here? What actually went wrong here?
SEAT: I don't think we should paint with broad brushes. But the reality is this fraud was rampant within the Somali community. We cannot --
PHILLIP: So, what --
SEAT: -- disassociate what has been happening --
PHILLIP: No, no, no. But what do you -- so, what -- what do you think should happen as a result of that?
SEAT: What do you mean?
PHILLIP: You're saying the fraud.
SEAT: Stop -- stop admitting that it was Somali --
PHILLIP: Hold on, hold on. You're saying -- you're saying that the fraud was rampant in the Somali community.
SEAT: But it does. If it was white-collar criminal, it would matter.
PHILLIP: And then --
SEAT: If there are rich people --
PHILLIP: But hold on.
SEAT: -- in Epstein files, you'll call them rich --
PHILLIP: Pete -- but Pete, so then -- so then what? So then what? What's the policy consequence of the fact that some of the people who were involved here were Somali? What do you want to happen? Are you with Lauren Boebert, denaturalize, mass deport --
SEAT: No.
PHILLIP: -- because they're Somali?
SEAT: You need to go into the community. You need to investigate fully. It probably is the tip of the iceberg, as the FBI director, Kash Patel, said recently.
SIMMONS: We need to go --
SEAT: We're uncovering and unraveling this every day. We're finding out --
SIMMONS: We need to go into the criminal enterprises. It doesn't matter where the criminal enterprises are and who the people are.
PHILLIP: Scott, a quick last word, and then we got to go.
JENNINGS: You got to admit, though, the catering to the Somali community that goes on by the Democrats in Minnesota is a little weird, is it not?
SIMMONS: I'll tell you, I was in Minnesota two weeks ago. People in Minnesota --
JENNINGS: They got the lieutenant governor up there dressed like the handmaid's tail.
SIMMONS: Listen --
JENNINGS: I mean, why do they cater -- why do they cater -- why do they cater to them?
PHILLIP: Scott, hold on a second.
JENNINGS: It's such a small portion of the population. Democrats put them at the center of --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Just a second. Just a second.
JENNINGS: Why?
PHILLIP: I don't think it would be acceptable for you to make a statement like that about Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn.
QUINN: Right.
SIMMONS: Right.
PHILLIP: Why on earth is it acceptable to make a statement like that about people --
JENNINGS: It's a white liberal woman dressing in --
PHILLIP: I'm just saying -- I'm just saying you are --
JENNINGS: You're saying Republicans are stealing the money. The Democrats are the ones that put them at the center --
PHILLIP: -- you're denigrating the religious practices of a group for no reason other than the --
JENNINGS: She's not religious.
PHILLIP: I don't care about her. I'm talking --
JENNINGS: She's the one who did it.
PHILLIP: You're describing the type of dress as the handmaid's tale and you're doing that to denigrate the religion of people --
JENNINGS: I'm just pointing out --
PHILLIP: It wouldn't be acceptable if you did it with another group. So, don't -- just don't do it when it comes --
JENNINGS: I'm just pointing out, it's Democrats --
QUINN: It's not --
JENNINGS: It's Democrats who have put Somali diaspora in Minneapolis at the center of their party and their state's politics. It's a small portion of population. There is a bunch of fraud that goes on. And even Tim Walz has claimed that any investigation of this fraud is akin to white supremacy.
PHILLIP: He has not said that.
JENNINGS: He has said that.
QUINN: He never said that.
PHILLIP: He has not said that. Some -- first of all, Tim Walz has encouraged investigations into this. But some of the groups that were responsible for the fraud made allegations against the Biden DOJ that they were being targeted for racial reasons. And that was false then and it's false now. So -- but I don't think there's any evidence that Tim Walz was a part of that kind of allegation.
JENNINGS: I think it was the other way.
PHILLIP: So, next for us, a flurry of new reports suggesting ICE is ramping up its arrests and is planning to overhaul detention centers. Why is the Trump administration shifting strategies right now? Well, Marjorie Taylor Greene is also doing a tell-all with "The New York Times". Inside her dramatic break with President Trump, in her own words. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: The Trump administration is on a time crunch to carry out the largest mass deportation of one million people by Wednesday. An analysis by "The Washington Post" finds that the administration has shifted its tactics and has led to a major surge in at-large arrests in recent months. The Post is also reporting that ICE documents show a plan to detain more than 80,000 immigrants at any given time. Where? Well, in warehouses across multiple states.
Meanwhile, a union representing immigration judges say that the massive backlog of cases is only getting worse. Nearly 100 have been fired nationwide since President Trump took office and just as many have resigned or retired.
Now, this warehouse plan, Christine, they're talking about facilities that hold up to 10,000 people.
[23:19:58]
I mean, this is like -- almost like monopoly money when we talk about this stuff. But 10,000 human beings in a single facility under detention, I think, should raise some eyebrows.
QUINN: I mean, it's inhumane. There is no question about it. And, you know, we may or may not be deporting these people, but they're still in the United States and they should be treated with the way we would treat anyone else in the United States.
But to think about warehousing 10,000 people, it is going to be prone to violence. It is not going to be safe. It is not going to be healthy. It's a plan in response to a decision the president made without really having thought it through or really thought about how to support that decision.
And I think it's going to just end up in the courts. And undoubtedly, the warehouses will, I believe, be shut down because they will be just inhumane.
SEAT: So, what is inhumane? According to this solicitation, DHS has not even confirmed this plan. But I think "The Washington Post" and other outlets have seen the solicitation that has been sent out to vendors. What is inhumane about retrofitting and renovating these vacant warehouses with -- quote -- "showers and restrooms, kitchens, dining areas, a medical unit, indoor and outdoor recreation areas in a law library?"
QUINN: These are the very -- the very same people who are alleging that they are going to retrofit. The very same people who had children sleeping on the floor in cages with nothing more than --
SEAT: Can the Obama administration do that, too?
QUINN: -- with nothing more than the silver blankets over them that we give out to people after they run a marathon. I would not believe these people based on their past record of what they have done to children, nonetheless in this case adults.
And given the fact that the president has created all of these deadlines, that this many people have to be deported by this state or arrested by that state, they're really going to spend the time to retrofit these in a proper way? And then what's the staffing level? How many staff are going to be on site? What are the medical provisions that are going to be on site?
SEAT: That's part of what the proposal is for, Christine.
QUINN: But if you look --
SEAT: It's to identify what gaps may exist. It's to refine the plan.
QUINN: My point is the president is never going to give the process, the time it would need to truly retrofit something to that size. And we know that facilities that large just generally do not work.
PHILLIP: Let me just read a little bit from -- this was a story that we ran about some of the existing facilities from an attorney who's dealing with some of the children's rights groups.
"Conditions of confinement and treatment of families appear to have worsened with families reporting horrific conditions, such as denial of critical medical care, worms and mold in the food that results in children becoming ill, and threats of family separation by officers and staff."
This administration has also seen more deaths in custody under this deportation regime than at any point in the recent history of this country. There are problems and some of these facilities are terrible. And there's no indication that that's going to get any worse when you're cramming thousands of people into hastily retrofitted warehouses.
SIMMONS: Yes. The problem with the administration is something that Christine is really tapping her finger on, which is a basic level of the ability to perform the functions of government in any way that we could all have confidence. I mean, from the secretary of defense who is Signal chatting his friends about what's going on in battle plans to whatever is happening when they go out into the community and they're grabbing people off the street and chasing them in the day care centers because they're supposed to be going after the worst of the worst but were grabbing moms out of day care lines, and teachers, we can't quite trust that these people know what they're doing.
And I think that the idea of handing such a grave and great responsibility to them, they got to show and prove a little bit that they're up to that, even if we agree that that was something they should do.
SEAT: Voters handed that grave responsibility to them in November last year.
SIMMONS: Voters are saying now -- voters are saying now they were for something that's not what they're getting, which is like a level of brutality that nobody really signed up for, and that is the problem.
PHILLIP: Scott?
JENNINGS: A couple of things. ICE today published some data. Seventy percent of the arrests made by ICE since Trump became president are people with violent criminal records. That's number one. Number two, I just have a question for you. You said these facilities would be prone to violence. Why?
QUINN: When you put that many individuals in a facility together --
JENNINGS: Why would they be violent?
QUINN: Because when you put that many people in one facility together, that --
JENNINGS: Are you not worried about when you put that many people into a country, they could be prone to violence or just in a facility?
QUINN: You don't cram 10,000 people into one --
JENNINGS: We crammed 20 million into the country.
QUINN: That is an unfair comparison.
JENNINGS: You sort of admitted that --
QUINN: No. I did make no --
JENNINGS: -- some violent populations are being rotted up here, no?
QUINN: Absolutely not. But when people are -- desperate people are shoved into one warehouse without proper bathroom, without proper medical --
[23:25:02]
JENNINGS: They're putting in -- they're putting in -- they're putting in all these things.
SIMMONS: Scott, why do you keep going to -- why do you keep going to an ethnographic lens when you have this conversation? Why can't we have this conversation and talk about a policy? You said, oh, what types of people? You're putting these people into a place. You just said that. You said that.
JENNINGS: I said -- you said they're prone to violence. I'm asking you why.
QUINN: No, I didn't. I said these facilities like these are prone to violence.
SIMMONS: You said these people.
JENNINGS: And I'm asking you why are they prone to violence?
QUINN: Because it shows. Anytime we kind of corral people, warehouse people, it creates desperation. It has nothing to do specifically with the people who are there. It has to do with that kind of a facility.
PHILLIP: Scott, even by your -- look, there are a lot of disputes about the numbers. But even if you take what DHS is saying at face value, you have about a third of the people being put in facilities with some people who are violent. Some of those criminal convictions, by the way, may or may not necessarily be violent convictions. But you're basically collapsing those populations.
So, you have DACA recipients, right, who are in the same facilities as people who are violent. That's also happening as well. I mean, I don't know that that really makes a lot of sense. There are people who are being rounded up who pose no risk to anyone.
JENNINGS: Well, look, the administration has been pretty clear. They're going to deport you if you're in the country illegally. And they have made a concerted effort to deport people who have criminal records, who have violent criminal records. Again, 70 percent of the ICE arrests, people with criminal records. Interestingly, of the two and half million people they've deported, 1.9 million self-deported.
PHILLIP: They haven't -- well, I was going to say, they haven't deported 2.9 million people.
JENNINGS: Two and a half.
PHILLIP: Two and a half. They have not deported two and a half million people. That self-deporting figure is heavily disputed. But look, there's no question, they've expanded the net to include many, many people who really pose no risk to anyone. They are grabbing people indiscriminately in some cases in immigration raids, including some U.S. citizens.
So, there is a -- there -- there's a degree to which the efforts to get to the numbers, to have a big number to show the world, has resulted in many people who really don't pose risk to anyone being rounded up and now potentially into one of these facilities. QWUINN: And what Americans were promised was that the worst of the worst, that really dangerous people, not American citizens, not people who are not violent. That is what the American --
JENNINGS: They are not -- they are not deporting American citizens. Can you at least admit it?
QUINN: they are bringing -- they are arresting American citizens and detaining them. There is no question about that. I know --
JENNINGS: Who has been arrested?
QUINN: I know American citizens who have been detained and arrested.
PHILLIP: We talked about this.
QUINN: It's a fact.
PHILLIP: There are -- there is currently a lawsuit by an American citizen who was detained for days.
JENNINGS: One?
PHILLIP: There are several of them. I'm just saying --
QUINN: I know individual --
PHILLIP: Are you --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- one mistake?
PHILLIP: I'm just saying, Scott --
JENNINGS: If I granted you one mistake --
PHILLIP: Scott, just a second.
JENNINGS: -- would you shut down all immigration --
PHILLIP: Scott, just a second. It's not one mistake. It's a factual matter that American citizens have been caught up in this stuff. That has happened. So, let's just leave that there.
Ahead, what sparked Marjorie Taylor Greene's big break with President Trump? And why now? There's a new in-depth profile that suggests it may have come down to faith.
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[23:30:00]
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You have Marjorie Traitor Brown, I call her, because green turns to brown under stress. So, I call her Traitor Brown. What the hell happened to her? She must have been a stone cold liberal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It has been the question on everyone's mind since the bitter breakup between President Trump and outgoing Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why did one of the president's fiercest allies turned so forcefully and suddenly against him and end up forfeiting her seat in Congress in the process? Well, tonight, we are learning that it has something to do with these words from Trump following the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Greene telling "The New York Times" in an interview tonight -- quote -- "That was the absolute worst statement. After Charlie died, I realized that I'm part of this toxic culture. I really started looking at my faith. I wanted to be more like Christ."
Scott, do you buy it? I mean, look, what happened to Charlie Kirk was traumatic to a lot of people. And it is the type of thing that can provoke you to really look at yourself and look at the way you're conducting your life and then look at your -- the people you're associating with. And she's saying that's what happened to her.
JENNINGS: I don't denigrate or oppose anybody saying they'd like to be more like Christ. I think that's a good sentiment. I don't quite understand how, you know, President Trump's close friend was assassinated and somehow that caused her to decide she needed to come out against Charlie Kirk's friend, Donald Trump. I don't exactly know how to square that circle.
Look, if she wants to be more like Christ, I applaud that. I think we should all aspire to that. I do think some of this is wrapped up in politics. It has been well reported and well known that she wanted to run for statewide office in Georgia. The president did not lend support for that. His team sent her a poll showing that she was going to get beaten pretty badly in a statewide race.
And ever since that moment, she turned against him on a number of issues, some domestic, some foreign policy. And Trump finally had enough of it.
[23:35:00]
And they cut ties, and she left Congress. She didn't have to quit, by the way. If she really wanted to go against Donald Trump or change the culture in Washington or whatever, she could have held on to her seat and done it from inside the institution.
PHILLIP: She was trying to talk to him. She was.
SIMMONS: The president -- the president of the United States just said on our air that he does not wish his opponents well, that he actually is the opposite of that. I don't know about you guys. I spend a lot of time over the holidays with a bunch of little kids. I one night had to adjudicate a fight between some little kids who lost a game. One of them stormed out, yelling at the other one instead of just wishing the person well and saying congratulations and moving on with the rest of the evening.
This is not the kind of role model that we want for American children and for the country. And for us to normalize this is really out of hand. And as a man of -- I think of a dad, as somebody who talked about Christ, I can't believe that you think that this is OK.
JENNINGS: You want me to tell you that politics ain't beanbag, Jamal?
SIMMONS: No. I want you to tell me that Donald Trump is not a great role model for America's children, and we should be looking for somewhere else to look for that.
JENNINGS: Look, he participates in our political culture in a very, very strong way. And when people come out against him, he comes out against them. And you worked for Kamala Harris, and I've never heard her say a kind word about Donald Trump or any Republican much. So, politics is a rough and tumble business. That I will admit.
SIMMONS: I mean, from the South --
JENNINGS: Do I expect Donald Trump to teach my children anything and everything? No. I'll take care of that. He can take care of the politics. I'll take care of my kids. If you need politicians to tell your kids right from wrong, that's your business.
QUINN: I think, generally, we would like to have a president of the United States who is of the highest moral fiber and that when they say things, they say things that we would want to emulate. Obviously, children's growth is first and foremost with their parents --
SIMMONS: Of course.
QUINN: -- but this is the president of the United States, the most powerful person in the world. They shouldn't be calling American citizens garbage. And they should, in fact, wish their opponents well. That's basic bottom line.
PHILLIP: She also made a point to talk about the other rift because Scott, you suggested that she decided to throw arrows from Trump from the outside. That actually isn't really what happened. She was trying to talk to Trump privately over text messages and phone calls.
Trump -- when she started talking about the Epstein file, saying that these women need to have their day, they need to be treated with dignity and respect, Trump called her to voice his displeasure. Greene was in her Capitol Hill office. And according to a staff member, everyone in the suite of rooms could hear him yelling at her as she listened to him on speakerphone. Greene says she expressed her perplexity over his intransigence. According to Greene, Trump replied -- quote -- "My friends will get hurt."
So, that's the other thing, that Trump doesn't tolerate any kind of dissent when it comes to the Epstein files. And what she was trying to say to him was you should invite these victims to the White House, treat them with dignity, put their needs and their concerns first. He wanted nothing to do with that.
QUINN: And he said they didn't earn it.
SEAT: I find it absolutely pathetic that we're putting the queen of chemtrails and Jewish space lasers on a pedestal because she's now attacking Donald Trump. I know the fastest and quickest way to mainstream relevancy is to turn on the president. And she knows that, too. This is someone who has never been taken seriously by her colleagues on Capitol Hill, someone who did not have a future inside or outside the chamber, as Scott mentioned. And yet, because she's turning on him, it's topic du jour. Everyone wants to talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene now.
PHILLIP: Hold on. As a Republican, you guys were just fine with Marjorie Taylor Greene. But she --
SEAT: No. Have you ever asked me? In my mind, she has always been mediocre Marjorie.
PHILLIP: She was a Republican in good standing up until the moment that she decided to say something negative about Trump. I don't think there's a single liberal that's like, hey, come on over here, Marjorie. She is still very much --
SEAT: Standing next to Democrats --
PHILLIP: Hold on. She's still very conservative. She's still very conservative. But even if you disagree with her on everything, she's laying out things that actually happened. And so, I think the question at hand is, of the things that she -- well, according to --
JENNINGS: Do you take her at her words?
PHILLIP: Hold on. This is not --
JENNINGS: And would you have taken her at her words?
PHILLIP: Well, listen, I wanted to read this because this is according not just to her, but to a staff member who heard the conversation on speaker phone.
JENNINGS: Oh, her staff.
PHILLIP: So, the point is these things happened. Given that they happened, what does it -- we know about Marjorie Taylor Greene. What does it say about Trump? JENNINGS: Look --
PHILLIP: What does it say about Trump that he's worried about his friends and not worried about the victims?
JENNINGS: You're taking her at her word, side unseen --
PHILLIP: Listen --
JENNINGS: -- without any evidence, if you know whether that's true or not.
PHILLIP: So, you're saying that she's lying?
[23:40:00]
JENNINGS: I'm saying I don't know that that happened.
PHILLIP: You're saying that she's lying. You're saying that she's lying, that she told Trump that he should have --
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: -- president of the United States.
PHILLIP: -- scandal to the White House.
JENNINGS: It is an extremely convenient story for her moment.
PHILLIP: How is that convenient when it's consistent with everything Trump has said, both publicly and privately?
QUINN: And what you said about how he behaves towards people who are not with him.
JENNINGS: Look --
SIMMONS: Combat his fears.
JENNINGS: Right now, right now, we're treating Marjorie Taylor Greene like she is an infallible political narrator.
PHILLIP: Absolutely, no one --
JENNINGS: And you had never treated her that way until this moment.
PHILLIP: Absolutely, no one is doing that.
JENNINGS: You're saying --
PHILLIP: That's why --
JENNINGS: You don't know --
PHILLIP: That is why I said this was a reported story by a journalist. He didn't just speak to her. He spoke to other people who overheard, not just overheard the conversation. The conversation was being played out in the open. So, look, there is outside corroboration of what she's saying.
Look, I take it. If you had said this was just according to Marjorie Taylor Greene, I'd be like, okay, well, maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. But apparently, other people heard it. So, is this not about Marjorie Taylor being green, being a saint, but it is about what happens when people disagree with Trump.
What does he do with you when you disagree with him, when you disagree with him over tariffs, when you disagree with him over affordability and the Epstein files? He was fine with her until those moments. What does that say about Trump?
SEAT: We know for the past decade, if not before that, when he was in real estate, that he cuts people out when you disagree with him. That's Donald Trump. The American people elected him president twice, knowing full well that's how he operates.
I'm not condoning it. I'm not saying it's right in every instance. But I think with Marjorie Taylor Greene, she is at least smart enough to know that if she has any future in politics, in commentary, in whatever it is, she has to turn on Donald Trump, and that's what --
PHILLIP: As you put it, the chemtrails, Jewish lasers, Marjorie Taylor Greene was just fine with Donald Trump until she started to question some of his decisions.
Next for us, another domino falls in the rebranding of the Kennedy Center with Trump's name. And now, it's New Year's Eve concerts that are canceled.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIP: Tonight, more performances are being canceled at the Kennedy Center after it was renamed to include Donald Trump. "The New York Times" is reporting tonight that a veteran jazz ensemble and New York dance company have canceled their upcoming shows. The jazz ensemble, which is canceling a New York's Eve show, did not explicitly name Donald Trump in its statement to fans. But the band's drummer told the Times that the name change had evidently played a role. The dance company canceled two planned performances in April. And the head of the company says that they stand to lose $40,000, telling the Times, it is financially devastating but morally exhilarating.
This is not the only cancellation. Ric Grenell threatened to sue a musician, Chuck Redd, who canceled on them for a million dollars. I don't know. I mean, this seems like free will to me.
SEAT: Well, number one, it's the artists who are canceling. I think that's important to point out. It is not the Kennedy Center canceling on them. That drummer that you referenced also said that they were -- quote -- "concerned about possible reprisals." Now, I don't know if he meant from the Kennedy Center, from Ric Grenell or if he meant from their fans, if they went to the Kennedy Center to perform.
But look, when I worked at the White House, and Scott, I'm sure you guys availed yourself of the opportunity as well to go sit in the president's box in one of the three theaters that have won, I went there all the time as often as I could to see the best musicians, the best actors, the best performances. I didn't care what name was on the building. And the great Michael Jordan used to say Republicans buy sneakers, too. Well, guess what? Republicans go and see art performances, too. Why these artists are doing this is depriving people of their work.
PHILLIP: I think that you've made a really important point because when you worked for a Republican in Washington, you felt more than welcome at the Kennedy Center. You went there just like everybody else.
SEAT: I went for the champagne bottles.
PHILLIP: And you watched a show, you sat in the president's box. It was all good. And the only thing that's really changed since then is that the Trump administration has decided to make everything in Washington political. They slapped Trump's name on the outside of the Kennedy Center. They have made -- they fired the entire board, essentially. They've made the Kennedy Center a place where politics is at the heart of what they're doing, which is not the way this has been in all the years that I've been in Washington, and I don't know about you.
JENNINGS: But what's political about performing? I mean, whether you, you know, if you've signed a contract to play and then you abruptly break your end of that contract, you might be subject to litigation. That would be true, I think, in most places, Kennedy Center or not. But inherently, for these artists, they're being invited to Washington to play for people, probably people of both parties, non-parties in the building, and I don't know why you would agree to do it in the first place if you had such a, you know, political opposition to the administration.
PHILLIP: Trump slapped his name on the outside of the --
JENNINGS: So what?
SIMMONS: Right.
PHILLIP: That's a memorial to President Kennedy.
SIMMONS: He was already the chair of the board.
JENNINGS: And he's already the president of the United States.
PHILLIP: And has inserted himself and on politics, virtually everything that's coming out of the Kennedy --
[23:50:04] JENNINGS: He's not forcing the artist to engage in any political speech or any political acts. They're just there to play music. So --
QUINN: Where you --
JENNINGS: -- political about playing your songs?
QUINN: Where you stand is who you are. And President Trump, in an illegal maneuver, has put his name on a building that was dedicated to an assassinated president. To stand on that stage after that has occurred is a tacit endorsement of what has happened. And for artists, if they don't have their integrity, they have nothing.
PHILLIP: Let me read the statement from The Cooker's jazz ensemble. It says, "Jazz was born from struggle and from a relentless insistence on freedom: freedom of thought, of expression, and of the full human voice. Our hope is that this moment will leave space for reflection, not resentment. We remain committed to playing music that reaches across divisions rather than deepening them."
I guess it does also raise the question about why not, why can't artists decide that they want to make a statement by not appearing?
SIMMONS: Well, Abby, I'm going to announce on your show I'm canceling all my upcoming appearances at the Kennedy Center. I'm not going to perform there.
(LAUGHTER)
-- invited me.
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE), Jamal. I was waiting --
JENNINGS: Everybody else is canceling shows.
SIMMONS: I'm not going to do it. Listen, I think Christine is right. If you're an artist of integrity, there's something about speaking a truth, playing a truth, being in your art form in a way that is going to make the world the kind of world you want it to be. And I think a lot of these artists see Donald Trump as someone who is standing against the world they want, which is one of openness and honesty and freedom of thought and freedom of expression.
And it's not because they're just making it up. It is because he has been going after companies, he has been going after universities, he has been going after law firms, he's going -- legally, he's going after as many parts of the society as possible to stop them from being able to exert their freedom of expression.
So, if you're an artist who believes in that, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to say, I am not going to perform in a place where this man has defiled it with his name, and instead, I'm going to use my artistry to go do something else.
JENNINGS: So, you're saying if an artist plays there, they don't have integrity? SIMMONS: I'm saying that these artists have decided it's against their integrity, and that's their right to be able to do that because they are free-thinking Americans.
JENNINGS: What if they signed a contract?
SIMMONS: They are free-thinking Americans. They want to sue them? That's the cost for that.
PHILLIP: I presume that their provision is to break the contract. They'll have to deal with the consequences. And as --
QUINN: That's right.
PHILLIP: -- one of the groups said, they're going to take a financial hit for pulling out. So, people are deciding to do that as opposed to performing.
Next for us, the panel gives us their nightcaps 2025 reflection edition. But first, a programming note. A new CNN film, "I'm Chevy Chase and You're Not," premieres on Thursday, featuring candid interviews with the Chase family, friends and co-stars and, of course, Chevy Chase himself, New Year's Day at 8 p.m. Eastern and the next day on the CNN app. We'll be right back.
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[23:55:00]
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PHILLIP: Before the Times Square ball drops, we are taking a moment to reflect on the last year. So, for tonight's NewsNight cap, what was your biggest accomplishment of 2025? Scott, you're up.
JENNINGS: Well, I'm going to start by congratulating you on what might have been yours at your book about Jesse Jackson that came out. So, congratulations on that.
PHILLIP: Thank you.
JENNINGS: And my way of saying I also had a book come out this year and --
PHILLIP: Congratulations.
JENNINGS: -- I've never done it before. And it was lightning fast process. I started it in February. Got the first draft done by May.
QUINN: Wow.
JENNINGS: And this kind of -- yes, got it out in November, hit the bestseller list, travel the country, and did book tour and stuff. So, first time. I really enjoyed it. It was a hard project but glad I did it. Maybe we'll do it again in the future. I hope you do, too.
PHILLIP: It's a whole thing. I don't know if I'm right there yet, Scott, but I'm glad you are.
QUINN: Your next could be a biography of Marjorie Taylor Greene.
JENNINGS: Yes.
PHILLIP: Tell the inside story.
(LAUGHTER)
Christine?
QUINN: So, in the kind of, you know, all politics are personal, my biggest accomplishment of this past year was getting -- working with many others and getting the New York State legislature and Governor Hochul to allocate $50 million for the first New York statewide housing voucher program for homeless New Yorkers.
PHILLIP: That's great. That's very important stuff. Go ahead.
SIMMONS: So, it's not actually my accomplishment, but we discovered a box in my family kind of a locker, storage locker. My grandfather's sister ran the negro (ph) soldier USO operation in Detroit in 1942 --
QUINN: Wow.
SIMMONS: -- during World War II and kept the most meticulous records of it, photographs with dates and times, troops and all the women who also volunteered at the same time. So, I've spent the last several weeks kind of going through this during research --
PHILLIP: Wow. Speaking of books, Jamal.
SIMMONS: -- talking to USO.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: It sounds like --
SIMMONS: What I've discovered is nobody has really written or talked much about Black women and their experience in the USO during World War II and the greater generation.
QUINN: Wow.
SIMMONS: You talk about the WACs or the WAVEA or people who've done other kind of service, but not in the USO. It has been a pretty amazing discovery.
PHILLIP: Yes.
JENNINGS: You're pitching it right now. This would be an amazing story.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: That is an amazing story. And it was preserved in this locker?
SIMMONS: It is preserved as if it hadn't been opened in 50 years.
PHILLIP: Wow.
SIMMONS: Yes.
PHILLIP: Wow. That's incredible. All right, Pete.
SEAT: Well, aside from sitting at this table 22 times this year, yes --
(LAUGHTER)
-- an invitation that I'm always grateful to receive and accept. Thank you, Abby, for having me. This was my 20th consecutive year attending a World Series game.
QUINN: Wow.
SEAT: That is a tradition that started back in 2006 when, Scott, St. Louis Cardinals won.
[00:00:01]
He was at one of the games. I was at a game. We were both at the White House at the time. But I decided it was fun enough to just go and cheer on good World Series baseball. I didn't need to cheer for a specific team. And I love going every year. I'm looking forward to 21.
PHILLIP: That's incredible. And also, quite the -- quite the brag right there -- 20 World Series games. Geez, everyone, thank you very much. Thanks for watching NewsNight. You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media -- X Instagram and TikTok. The Story with Elex Michaelson starts right now.
