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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Makes Voting Demands, Including End of Mail Ballots; Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Calls Proof of Citizenship Bill Jim Crow 2.0; Trump Says He'll Fund Project IF Penn, Dulles Named After Him. Hillary Clinton Pushes For Public Deposition After Agreeing To Testify At House Oversight Committee; Trump Delivers Remarks At National Prayer Breakfast. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 05, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, in the fight against Donald Trump nationalizing elections, Democrats are using a controversial new analogy.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It's Jim Crow 2.0.
PHILLIP: Plus, it's a tradition dating back nearly eight decades to honor America's moral and spiritual values.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They rigged the second election.
Beating these lunatics was incredible.
This moron, no matter what it is, I don't know how a person of faith can vote for a Democrat.
PHILLIP: The president throws the first stones at the National Prayer Breakfast.
Also, Hillary Clinton dares Republicans to open the doors and turn on the cameras for her Epstein interview, while Trump suddenly keeps praising her husband.
TRUMP: It bothers me that somebody's going after Bill Clinton.
I think it's a shame, to be honest.
I still like Bill.
And the president holds billions of dollars hostage for an infrastructure project. His demand, name Penn Station and Dulles Airport after me.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison, Bill Stepien, Deja Foxx and Dan Abrams.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America's talking about, elections and Donald Trump's ongoing push to federalize them. On social media tonight, President Trump falsely claimed that American elections have been rigged and stolen, and he urged Republicans to pass the SAVE Act issuing a list of several demands. Trump insisted that voters show I.D. at polling places, which is already required by law in most states. All voters show proof of citizenship, also required in many states across the country. And, lastly, Trump called for the elimination of mail-in ballots, which he has long and falsely claimed are a source of rampant voter fraud.
Now, in the fight against Trump's bid to transform American elections, some Democrats are now reviving a controversial analogy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: It's Jim Crow 2.0. And I called it Jim Crow 2.0 and the right wing went nuts all over the internet. That's because they know it's true. What they're trying to do here is the same thing that was done in the South for decades to prevent people of color from voting. For instance, if you can't -- if you change -- you're a woman who got married and change your last name, you won't be able to show I.D. and you'll be discriminated against. If you can't find a birth certificate or a proper I.D., you'll be discriminated against.
This is vicious and nasty. And I said to our Republican colleagues, it will not pass the Senate. You will not get a single Democratic vote in the Senate. We're not reviving Jim Crow all over the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, we'll get to the details of what the SAVE Act is and what it is not, but, Ashley, I want to ask you about the rhetoric choice because I think that is the thing that some people, both on the left and the right, are criticizing him for.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he used that phrasing because historically in this country, during the civil rights movement, there have been poll taxes, there have been discriminatory practices to prevent women, to prevent black people to vote in his lifetime. And what we saw after the 2020 election when Joe Biden won, we see a president that still falsely claims the election was stolen with him, which is not true. We saw states all over the country push aggressive voter registration bills to try and suppress the vote.
So, would I say Jim Crow 2.0? No. But do I think there are tactics that this administration that the SAVE Act they're using to potentially diminish and suppress votes not just of people of color, but of elderly folks, of young people, of lower income folks, yes.
PHILLIP: I guess that's the thing. I mean, look, there are some real concerns about the SAVE Act, but can you do it without drawing a parallel to Jim Crow, which was a very specific thing? And it was about more than just voting, it was also about racial violence, et cetera.
DAN ABRAMS, FOUNDER, MEDIAITE YOUTUBE: Of course you can, right? I mean, and this is the problem, right, is that you can make an argument against the SAVE Act, right?
[22:05:00]
I could present a case for you against it. It has nothing to do with Jim Crow, right? I mean, the idea that we're talking about targeting a particular community, I would think there'd be a particular sensitivity with something like that where there was a particularly targeted community.
Who's the targeted community here? It's a lot of people, right? They'd say, oh, it's lower income people, it's people who are in rural areas. You know, it's potentially people of color. It's a whole bunch --
PHILLIP: Married women.
ABRAMS: Right, it's a whole bunch of different people. You can argue that you shouldn't do it for a variety of reasons, but to compare it to Jim Crow completely undermines Schumer's argument entirely.
DEJA FOXX (D), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, ARIZONA: Yes. I want to say that I think this is a little bit less about the substance of the SAVE Act, which would disenfranchise disproportionately people of color who are maybe less likely to have a passport than their white counterparts or young people, 20 somethings who do not know where their birth certificate is right now in this moment.
But it's more about skepticism towards Democrats and Democratic leadership, and Schumer who have failed to show up time and time again, failed to show a fight. And in the online narratives I've been seeing, this has been labeled in some ways as race baiting, right? And I think it speaks more to skepticism to these leaders than the substance of this act.
PHILLIP: And there's real substance here. I mean, you mentioned maybe younger voters, even voters of color, but actually there's also concerns that a lot of rural voters might be disenfranchised by this. And, in general, more than 9 percent, according to the Brennan Center analysis, 9 percent of American citizens of voting age, 21.3 million people, Don't have proof of citizenship readily available, at least 3.8 million Don't have these documents at all because they were lost, destroyed, or stolen. Over 8 percent of self-identified white Americans don't have citizenship documents readily available. A large percentage of Americans don't have passports, many of them in red states.
So, I mean, I get the idea that Republicans think that this is like a one-up on voter I.D., but it could also be something that kind of is like the door slamming them right back in the face. BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Schumer's on the wrong side of this issue, eight in 10. CNN. Poll eight in 10 Americans. Support showing photo identification, just like you would when you --
ABRAMS: Separate issue from the SAVE Act.
PHILLIP: It's a different -- yes.
ABRAMS: Yes.
PHILLIP: It's a different issue.
STEPIEN: Related though. All under the umbrella of Democrats being on the wrong side of American -- of where American public support is. Look, so much of this is politics. It is. This is an election year. The digital fundraising content is coming out of the Democrats right now. These buzzwords, this is what people on both sides of the aisle do. This is an election year. It's a midterm election year. This is about ginning up the base, and that's exactly what he said.
PHILLIP: But you're a practitioner of politics campaigns. If you -- realistically, I mean, a nationwide show me your birth certificate or a passport in order to vote before the next presidential election, you really think that that's not going to have an impact on Republicans as well as Democrats?
STEPIEN: Sure. And the fact that Republicans are calling for these measures, we should all care about election security. We should all care about voter rolls being purged and dead people being pulled off.
ALLISON: Yes.
STEPIEN: We should all care about these things.
ALLISON: Yes. Also --
STEPIEN: Even if Republicans are impacted by it.
ALLISON: We also should all care that when you lose an election, you acknowledge it, you accept it, and you move on, and you don't hold this fight six years later, but we are here, which is why we have the SAVE Act.
And when you look at data, when I was in law school my first summer, I remember working at the Brennan Center as my -- it was my first internship in law school, and I remember asking someone who is now a circuit court judge and saying, why are we fighting this one case, because it actually doesn't determine the outcome of an election? And she says, because every single vote matters if you have the right to vote.
So, Democrats and Republicans want all people who are eligible and legal to vote to actually be able to vote. What we don't want is that there are higher benchmarks for some people to be able to vote and some people not to be able to vote. The SAVE Act is unnecessary. The reason why Donald Trump is doing that is a tactic because you all are on shaky ground right now for these midterms. The public -- maybe people are with you eight to ten on voter I.D., but they are not with you eight to ten on immigration right now, which is what you want on 2024.
So, there are tactics that being deployed right here that are also political on the Republican side, and we can't just play blind to that.
ABRAMS: But let's not conflate the SAVE Act with voter fraud, right?
ALLISON: exactly.
ABRAMS: I mean, that's what's sort of happening now, right, is these ridiculous claims about the 2020 election and voter fraud with a separate issue, which is a serious, legitimate debate about the SAVE Act, right? And every time Donald Trump says something that is incredibly excessive, or 15 places that we need to nationalize the elections, the response is, well, he was talking about the SAVE Act. It's like, wait, what?
PHILLIP: Yes.
ABRAMS: It has nothing to do with the SAVE Act.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ABRAMS: So, the point is that like, let's debate the SAVE Act. Let's have a serious conversation about it. I think there are arguments for and against it, but it has nothing to do with nationalizing elections or voter fraud in Georgia.
PHILLIP: Yes, there's a desire to, as I like to say, launder Donald Trump's words.
[22:10:03]
But I think it also -- it is kind of an insult to the intelligence of the American people who see and hear what he is saying and take him at his word.
And one other thing, I mean, I just want to play this. This is Karoline Leavitt. She was asked about Steve Bannon's calls for Trump to deploy ICE, and I want you to listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Steve Bannon recently said, quote, we're going to have ICE surround the polls come November. Is that something that the president is considering?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That's not something I've ever heard the president consider, no.
REPORTER: So, you can guarantee to the American public that ICE will not be around polling locations or voting locations in November? LEAVITT: I can't guarantee that an ICE agent won't be around a polling location in November. I mean, that's frankly a very silly hypothetical question, but what I can tell you is I haven't heard the president discuss any formal plans to put ICE outside of polling locations. It's a disingenuous question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, those are Steve Bannon's comments that she was asked about, but the other part of the context is that Trump himself said earlier this week that he believes that federal agents should be overseeing the votes and counting the votes. So, why can't the White House be, you know, unequivocal about what the Constitution says about who runs elections in this country?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she was pretty clear. She's never heard the president say he wants to put ICE agents at polling locations. I think what she was also saying is, you know, can I guarantee one's not going to be driving by one of the thousands upon thousands of polling locations on a particular day? No, I couldn't guarantee that. But there's obviously no plan to deploy ICE agents.
Regarding elections, you know, my view is they're run by the states. They should be run by the states. The diffuse nature of our election system is a good thing. It generally leads to security. That doesn't mean, though, that there aren't already federal hooks into the elections. The Voter Registration Act requires states to try to keep their voter rolls clean. Many of them do not. The Help America Vote Act does the same thing. So, there are already some federal requirements on states to try to engage in some best practices, For what purpose? To give people confidence that the election is running fairly.
Now, at the beginning we talk a little bit about, you know, people believing that elections had been stolen. It's not just 2020. A majority of Democrats in this country think the 2016 election was stolen, and I suspect a great many Democrats still think 2004 and 2000 were stolen as well. So, this is a problem that has plagued both parties, the idea that they don't believe the outcome of elections. And the way we --
ALLISON: I'd like to clarify that point though, as I just want to say, there were people in 2004 that thought voter suppression tactics were taking place in the state, which could still be a true statement, but what never happened after 2004 was an insurrection at the Capitol. In 2016, there was proof that there were external, foreign agitators that were targeting certain types of --
JENNINGS: See?
ALLISON: No. What I am saying, and what Donald Trump said is not very --
PHILLIP: Scott, that's the bipartisan conclusion of a Congressional investigation. JENNINGS: My political analysis is that a majority of Democrats think the 2016 election was stolen.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. What Ashley just said --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: If you walked into a Democrat and said, Russia, did not steal the election, you'd be --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: That is actually a good question where those numbers come from.
ALLISON: As a reliable here, I walk into Democratic dinners every night, and just let me tell you, we're not talking about whether the --
JENNINGS: No. But if you polled it -- it would be honest if you polled it.
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: Just how many Democratic dinners have you been at lately, Scott?
JENNINGS: I look at a lot of polls. I'm just telling you, Democrats believe the 2016 election was stolen by Russia.
ALLISON: No, my friend.
JENNINGS: And in 2000 and 2004, the Democrats on the floor of the House tried to stop to electoral votes.
PHILLIP: Let me tell you what a lot of Democrats believe and what a lot of Republicans believe, including the current secretary of state, Marco Rubio, who was a part of the process of looking into this, that Russia did in fact interfere in the 2016 election. That is not a conspiracy. It is not a hoax. It is a bipartisan --
JENNINGS: Do you think the election was illegitimate?
PHILLIP: Scott, I didn't say it was illegitimate.
ALLISON: No, but we didn't charge the Capitol.
PHILLIP: It's a fact that Russia interfered in the 2016 --
JENNINGS: You all -- everybody at this table and a majority of Democrats think Russia stole the election.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: We can talk about that, but we are talking about what Ashley is saying, which is that Democrats acknowledge something that also some Republicans acknowledged too, which is that Russia interfered. That is not to say that all Democrats believe that, you know, Hillary Clinton was duly elected. Because if they did, then maybe they would've done what Trump supporters did.
ABRAMS: There were a handful of Democrats in 2016 who didn't vote to secure -- to authorize --
ALLISON: Certify the election.
ABRAMS: Certify the election, a handful. There were -- I forget the number.
ALLISON: But they also didn't tell their constituents to come storm the Capitol either.
[22:15:02]
ABRAMS: No. But just look at the numbers, right? It was a hundred and something in 2020 of Republicans who were saying, we're not going to certify the election.
Now, you can argue Democrats started it, right, and look what they started and look what they sowed, okay? You know, you can make that argument, but based on the numbers, A, I don't think the majority Democrats believe you.
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: If you say that, I'm going to make a very provocative claim about Republicans, and then you're going to have to accept that.
PHILLIP: All right. We'll try to get to the bottom of where Scott's getting his polling. And if Scott, right on that polling, he's right on the polling, but we'll try to find it for the next time.
Next for us, last stop, Trump Station now landing at Washington's Trump airport. Well, the president is telling Senator Chuck Schumer that there is a price to pay if he wants the billions of dollars that are already approved by Congress for an infrastructure project.
Plus, Hillary Clinton's message to Republicans, make the Epstein hearing where her and Bill will testify public.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: President Trump is proposing to release billions in federal funding for a major New York infrastructure project. But there's one condition. Sources tell CNN that, in exchange, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has to agree to name New York's Penn Station and Washington's Dulles Airport after Trump.
Now, Schumer has rejected that offer. Trump has since continued to withhold more than $16 billion for the project that would connect New York and New Jersey through a rail tunnel under the Hudson River. Now, this money is already earmarked by Congress.
This is just one more thing that Trump is trying to put his name on. There have been so many of these projects and some of them he slaps his name on it, it'll probably be torn off in a couple of years if there is another president. The Trump Kennedy Center, the Trump Institute of Peace, et cetera, et cetera what is that all about?
STEPIEN: Republicans hate this project. Republicans have been trying to stop this project for 15 years. Governor Christie in New Jersey, every time a Republican takes office, they try and stop it. Every time a Democrat takes office, they restart the project. This is a surefire way to try and stop the project.
PHILLIP: Which is what?
STEPIEN: By trying --
PHILLIP: Like threatening to put his name --
STEPIEN: By telling Chuck Schumer the name on the project. Here's the other thing, by the way --
PHILLIP: But also, by the way, let's not -- let's just not gloss over, Congress has appropriated this money, okay? This is not Trump's slush fund to do with whatever he wants. This is Congress has said the money's going to go there and the states have sued. New York and New Jersey have sued the feds over the tunnel funding. And there's actually a court case on it tomorrow. So, maybe the courts will decide.
STEPIEN: Having been in rooms, right, you have Democrats go out to the microphones outside the Oval Office and they kick the hell out of the president, then they come into the Oval Office, they have a Diet Coke, they actually joke around and have fun, and then they go back out to the microphones and again, kick the hell out of the president. The tone in these rooms are not always serious.
I would love to know these -- I would love to know these sources.
JENNINGS: Scott takes them seriously. Scott and I were talking in the hallway about this and I was saying, come on, you're not actually going to defend this one? And you said you absolutely are.
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: Here's what I think. You're more of an expert on the tunnel than I am, but I am here to tell you all, he's a two-term president. They're going to name something after this man. I was in Grand Rapids, Michigan recently. You know, what the name of the airport there is? Gerald R. Ford Airport.
ABRAMS: But they tend to name it after they're president, after the job.
(CROSSTALKS) JENNINGS: But here's my point, here's my argument. You could not possibly trust. If you were Donald Trump, knowing everything you've been through, you could not possibly trust the posterity somebody doing you right knowing full well they're going to do you dirty. He's got to do it.
(CROSSTALKS)
ABRAMS: I can't believe this is real. Honestly, I thought -- I'm with you. I thought this was a joke.
JENNINGS: What's wrong with it?
ABRAMS: What's wrong with him demanding certain things in exchange for naming it after him? You don't think that that's kind of bonkers?
JENNINGS: I'm just telling you, if left to history and posterity, someone will always do this man dirty, but he's got to take care of himself.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: That's absolutely wild.
FOXX: His reputation and everything left --
JENNINGS: See? If like people like Dan, he would never get anything --
(CROSSTALKS)
FOXX: So, the people who come after generations like mine, if he leaves a poor reflection, if he leaves a poor legacy, that's his own doing.
ALLISON: Yes.
PHILLIP: You don't get a --
JENNINGS: That's the thing, you would never give a fair -- if you were in Congress, you ran for Congress --
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: No. Go to what state he won name something there.
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) for being president of the United States.
JENNINGS: He's a two-term president. He's going to get something.
PHILLIP: Presidents leave legacies. Their legacies determine whether or not people will want to honor them. You are seeming to acknowledge that people will not want to honor Donald Trump when he leaves the presidency. If that is the case --
ALLISON: And that says more about him. JENNINGS: I'm acknowledging reality. People crap on while he's alive. What do you think they're going to do to him when he's dead? They would never allow this.
ALLISON: Let me tell you something. It could be the Miami Donald Trump International Airport. It could be the Alabama Trump International -- or not international -- Regional, probably, airport. It could be the Idaho Regional Airport.
JENNINGS: What's wrong with Dulles?
ALLISON: Okay. Those are his voters.
[22:25:00]
So, let them name something after him. If people in New York don't want the Penn Station named after him, let that also be the case. But forcing your name on there --
ABRAMS: Demanding that in exchange for funds. Come on.
ALLISON: It's ridiculous.
(CROSSTALKS)
ABRAMS: I'm not willing to take this. It's too ridiculous.
FOXX: There are people real livelihoods on the line here. He is putting people's jobs at risk, our ability to get around, right. He does not care about real people. He cares about his name being on things. TrumpRx, you know, Trump Bitcoin, whatever he's selling these days.
ALLISON: Trump Kennedy Center.
FOXX: Exactly.
PHILLIP: I mean, to that point, why on earth should we not take it seriously? Why is this a joke, but the Trump Kennedy Center is not, the Trump Accounts, the Trump --
ABRAMS: I wonder if he's trolling. Is this real? I mean, is this real bad?
ALLISON: Have you seen the Kennedy Center? His name --
PHILLIP: He has actually spent taxpayer dollars to put his name on a memorial to an assassinated former president, a memorial, okay? That's like him deciding to take the Jefferson Memorial and stick his name in front of it. That's not a joke. That's a real thing that he actually did.
So, I really think it is straining credulity to say that we should just pretend like this is not real when it's very much real. I mean, Trump is not joking about this.
STEPIEN: With the list you put on the screen, he was not joking.
PHILLIP: A long list, yes.
STEPIEN: Tying $16 billion. I look at the $16 billion in taxpayer funding that's going through this project. That's what concerns me. And I do think being in these rooms, the tone, the temperature is very different than when people think when the doors close, I'm not taking this too seriously.
PHILLIP: I know what you're saying. I mean, look, in the first Trump administration, it was -- I think there was -- it was more likely that they would go into these rooms and give them the benefit of the doubt. I think this term it is different. I don't think the Chuck Schumer is going into a room and asking for a Diet Coke and joking around with Donald Trump. There is $16 billion on the line. That's very important to the State of New York. And also, frankly, Scott, it is probably not legal. And we'll find out soon when a judge rules on this. It is probably not legal for him to withhold this money --
JENNINGS: I want everybody to get their money -- I'm for everybody here. This seems like a win-win to me. Why can't you guys take yes for an answer? I don't understand.
ALLISON: No, it just is absurd.
JENNINGS: Because we don't want to go to the train station with Trump's name on it.
ALLISON: I don't care. I'll still use the train station.
PHILLIP: What are you saying? Are you saying that Trump is wrong to withhold the money or what?
JENNINGS: No, I'm saying that this is a clever way to get Schumer what he wants, to get Trump what he wants. You guys are looking at this all wrong. This is a win-win.
FOXX: Does it not bother you just a little bit that what Trump wants is his name on something, not people's lives to be just a little bit easier?
ALLISON: But it's not just that. It's that you don't -- the way our government works is that there are appropriations. And when those things are appropriated, the money moves. You don't get to -- as the president say, the only way it moves in is if I get my way. No.
FOXX: This is a temper tantrum.
ABRAMS: Isn't it kind of embarrassing?
JENNINGS: Embarrassing?
ABRAMS: Yes, about the fact that the president of the United States is demanding -- if it's true, if it's not a joke, right, I would think it's kind of embarrassing that he's saying, well, all right, you know, I'll do it, but you got to put my name on Penn Station. You got to put my -- it's like, come on, man. He's almost got to be saying, are you serious?
JENNINGS: You know full well that when he leaves office and when he is dead and gone, there's going to be an industry of people dedicated to erasing him from American history --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: And he who does not toot his own horn, shall not be tooted. I'm just saying.
FOXX: I hope this is a man who does not fear from living his own horn, all right?
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) everyone here, because I think there's like amnesia, you know? Four years ago when Donald Trump urged on an insurrection on the Capitol, there were many Republicans, one of them is sitting here at this table, who said that he should be prosecuted or impeached, or that he should never be near the White House again. So, you can't erase that. That's part of Trump's legacy. He has to live with the consequences of his actions, the good and the bad.
JENNINGS: See? This is what I'm talking about.
PHILLIP: If there are Americans -- hold on. If there are Americans who don't want to honor that, that is a perfectly reasonable thing. And as Ashley said, if there are Americans who do, they can do it. But Trump using coercion to force his name onto a building --
JENNINGS: This is typical Washington horse trading.
ALLISON: No. But you were going to say -- you were going to say, after Abby pointed out insurrection and the, and where you were on January 6th, until this day, you still stand, I believe, that he then won election again. But the reality is that, like you said, in 50 years, there will be people who continuously or history gets to determine how people look on him. And what doesn't get to get a race is January 6th, just like his second term doesn't get to be a race. And my spidey sense says that January 6th will be more prevailing than him on Penn Station.
PHILLIP: All right, next for us, turn on the cameras. That is what Hillary Clinton says should happen in the upcoming Epstein hearings. Why are some Republican Congressmen pushing back on that? We'll debate.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Hillary Clinton is daring Republicans to open the doors and turn on the cameras for her Epstein testimony. In a social media post today, Clinton said she and her husband had engaged the House Oversight Committee in good faith, but that James Comer, the Committee's Chair, kept moving the goalposts. Asked about the Clintons' upcoming testimony to Congress over Epstein, Trump offered unexpected praise for the former President. [22:35:01]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It bothers me that somebody's going after Bill Clinton. See, I like Bill Clinton.
UNKNOWN: What do you like about him?
TRUMP: I like -- well, I like his behavior toward me. I thought he got me, he understood me. You know, he was the one that said very famously that you don't want to run against Trump when there were 18 people. It was 18 people, including me, total. And he kept telling them, you don't want to run against Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, just as a bit of a sidebar here, Bill, do you have any idea why Trump is so -- some timey about Bill Clinton? Sometimes he's a sexual predator. Other times he's been good to him.
BILL STEPLEN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I mean, I think Trump just went through a very difficult public period when he was out of office. I he knows how difficult it is to be in the spotlight under circumstances like this. And I think there's some empathy, perhaps, that people don't give him credit for. I think there's --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: He sees some -- he sees some of his experience in Clinton?
STEPLEN: Perhaps. Otherwise this is difficult.
(CROSSTALK)
DEJA FOXX (D) U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, ARIZONA. I wonder if it's empathy or sort of self-interest, right, that he's saying, nobody look here and also don't look at me, right? That's sort of what I'm seeing in this. It feels a bit like the boys' club. And I think when it comes to the Epstein files, people aren't exactly worried about political party. They're worried about privilege. And that people who seem to be above the rest of us get away with things. And Trump is no exception.
PHILLIP: Should the testimony be public?
DAN ABRAMS, FOUNDER, MEDIAITE YOUTUBE: You know, sure. Look, I don't think they should be testifying. Look, they're obviously -- they're being called to testify supposedly to get more information about Epstein. If you're going to say the Clintons have to testify, then Trump has to testify, period. I mean, there's just no way to justify one and not the other.
So, let's just assume for a moment that it is a completely political play to get the Clintons there. Okay. It is a political response to say, let's do this in public. Because I think they're going to try, and in particular, Hillary probably is going to try to bring Donald Trump back into the conversation about Jeffrey Epstein.
FOXX: Which -- can I just say, there's a trend online right now that's saying that 2026 is just 2016 all over again. And something about this feels very much like that. If you've seen people posting those throwback photos, this matchup feels very similar.
ASHLEY ALLISON, PUBLISHER, "THE ROOT": I thought that was a good trend, too.
FOXX: Dragon.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We were all younger then, Ashley.
ALLISON: Yes, we were.
FOXX: It's true. People are saying it's part of the millennial midlife crisis.
JENNINGS: I'll tell you one thing. Donald Trump's gotten kind of a Bill Clinton. We got all his voters now. All the good old boy union Democrats that voted for Bill Clinton in middle America, they now vote for Donald Trump. That is one connection in history that you'll never be able to shake. All these blue collar, non-college, working class guys from West Kentucky and other places in middle America where I'm from, they were Clinton.
They were the biggest Clinton people I knew. And now they love Trump. They have a band in the Democratic Party. So, what do they have in common? We took all of Clinton's coalition and now Trump's the President.
ALLISON: I don't want to play politics with this. If you're in the Epstein files, you're going to need to get dragged out. If you have done something wrong in that, it was a sick, disgusting, despicable, sexual, pedophilia, predatory, the worst of the worst. I don't care if you're Republican. I don't care if you're Democrat. You need to go down.
You destroyed some of these women's lives. They have fought to bring their dignity, to bring their voice to center of the story. This is not about politics. I really don't care what office you held. You could be the dog catcher or the President. If you had something to do with this, you need to be held into account.
ABRAMS: What is this? What is this?
ALLISON: In any involvement
ABRAMS: In what?
ALLISON: In being a part of sex trafficking --
ABRAMS: Okay, fine.
ALLISON: --sexual abuse. ABRAMS: But how about like you had a conversation with Jeffrey
Epstein on email?
ALLISON: Ask the question, once it's answered, ask and answer. But I don't think it should just be one side versus the other side.
ABRAMS: Look, I'm certainly not going to sit here and defend anything.
ALLISON: You know, but it's just like --
ABRAMS: You want it get killed on social media somehow.
ALLISON: No, no. But this whole like -- this whole like some files out, not all the files out. I like this guy. I don't -- no. Like, we got to, like, this is nasty. This was disgusting. And then if it was anybody else but billionaires, they all would have been called in to --
FOXX: That's exactly it. That's exactly it.
JENNINGS: I agree with your sentiments, of course. One thing that is, I don't understand, I've not understood it since this story's been going for the last several months. There are members of Congress who claim to have had conversations with the victims where they heard them name names. No one ever goes to the floor of the House or anywhere else for that matter and says here is the information that I was told.
I think they would have protection to do so if they did on the floor of the House. I've never understood why that -- I'm with you. I'm disgusted by all this. Somebody somewhere is alive and knows names of the people you're talking about who actually, to your point, did something --
[22:40:02]
UNKNOWN: Right.
JENNINGS: -- horrific. No one ever says the name. Why?
PHILLIP: That feels like -- but that feels like a nuclear option, right? Like --
JENNINGS: Are we there?
PHILLIP: Well, not really because I mean, I think that the part that is frustrating about this is that kind of what you were alluding to. There is this presumption that everybody was just hanging out with Epstein, emailing him, joking around about sex with underage girls, but that nobody did anything criminal. And I'm not sure that's the assumption that we should have. Shouldn't the Justice Department say, you know what, let's go back to the drawing board on all of this.
ABRAMS: They did.
PHILLIP: Let's go back to the witnesses. Well, I mean, did they? ABRAMS: Yes.
PHILLIP: I don't know. I mean, I --
ABRAMS: There'd be no better prize for any DOJ, Biden or Trump to be able to prosecute someone who engaged in a crime with that state.
PHILLIP: I'm just going to put on the table what people who are skeptical of that believe --
ALLISON: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- which is that there are so many powerful people across the political spectrum who are implicated that it is in no one's best interest to truly dig in to what happened here. And I think that the way that this has been handled across party lines going back, you know, more than a decade, seems to make that seem very true that nobody wants to touch it not because they're not interested in getting some kind of, you know, legal prize but because there are people that are powerful in both --
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Well, except the first -- the key person who would belie that is going to be Ghislaine Maxwell. Meaning, she's the one who had contact with all of these people. She was the one who's friends -- so if that theory was right, they wouldn't have prosecuted her either.
PHILLIP: She, Ghislaine Maxwell, remember, maintains her innocence.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: So, what?
PHILLIP: But my point is that if she were to implicate other people in sex trafficking, she would be implicating herself.
ABRAMS: No. No. She could say, I saw certain things.
PHILLIP: And so, she has a lot of reason --
ABRAMS: No --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- to not implicate people.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: No. I had nothing to do with it. I saw this person would --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: How many people are in jail because of the Epstein files?
ABRAMS: Sorry? ALLISON: How many people are actually in jail because of this --
ABRAMS: The Epstein files or Ghislaine Maxwell?
ALLISON: No, because of the Epstein --
PHILLIP: Just one.
ALLISON: One.
JENNINGS: Ghislaine.
ALLISON: Right. Okay. So, how many victims are there?
PHILLIP: Hundreds.
ALLISON: So did one person do wrong by all those people? Who victimized those people? We need to know who they are. They need to be held to account. And the only way you do is go back to the drawing board.
STEPLEN: And the way to do that is not creating a circus like the Clintons want to do. Let's have a closed door deposition, taped, recorded, made public --
FOXX: I know, we're not talking about the --
STEPLEN: -- where we get to the bottom of things.
FOXX: I watched influencers walk out of the White House with these like Epstein file binders. Like, what are we talking about? They want to create the circus. I think what everyone wants here is more transparency, not a cherry pick --
PHILLIP: I think both things could be true. I think, Bill, I tend to agree with you. I find public hearings, especially on Capitol Hill these days, to be completely worthless. And there is such a strong interest of justice in this situation for real victims that, yes, I don't know that it's helping anybody for this to be out in the public.
STEPLEN: And Comer said you could do both. You can do both.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let it-- let it --
ALLISON: I think the reason they want it is --
PHILLIP: Maybe do both but let's have a serious inquiry --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLISON: They don't trust what people do when they leave the private -- the private testimony. They go out and spin it.
UNKNOWN: Right. ALLISON: So, the reason why they're saying make it public is because
there is no trust in our government, regardless of Democrat or Republican. And they're saying, let me say it from my own mouth and let you hear it from my own -- in your own ears.
PHILLIP: Right. Next for us, an event meant for prayer and reflection has turned into a Trump mixed tape of self-praise and grievances. Was it appropriate or preachy? We'll talk about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:11)
PHILLIP: The National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C. is historically a non-partisan event. But today, President Trump served up a buffet of his greatest hits. On the menu, name calling, rival bashing, gripes, and plenty of grievances.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No matter what we do, this moron got 100 percent vote except for this guy named Thomas Massie. Now, I really have a big ego. Russia, Russia, Russia. I did the Super Bowl interview. This is the worst president we've ever had -- Biden. Europe is so bad with the windmills. Tulsi Gabbard is doing a great job. I don't like sleeping on planes, you know?
It's the biggest piece of ice in the world. One of my favorite people, President Bukele of El Salvador. I'm the father of Space Force. We have a military where they all look like Tom Cruise, only bigger. Mike Johnson's a very religious person that he does not hide it. We brought back the word Christmas. I'm not going to make it to heaven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Wait, there is actually more. Trump also ranted and raved about voter ID, his first term, Afghanistan, Pam Bondi, Barack Obama, tariffs, deportations, law and order, D.C. crime, all things Minnesota, and of course, the media. So, I guess we're supposed to say praise the Lord to that.
FOXX: Amen.
PHILLIP: He's also, I mean, I have to say, let me just play this because I think this is kind of emblematic of how Trump approaches this. Here's what he said about the election, the 2020 election that he is so obsessed with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They rigged the second election, I had to win it. I had to win it. The first time, you know, they said I didn't win the popular vote. I did.
[22:50:00]
And then the election's rigged and I wasn't there. And then they rigged the election.
(LAUGHTER)
And then I said, I'm coming back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Lying at a prayer breakfast. Scott.
JENNINGS: Well, it was a speech that covered the waterfront --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- and it is common for the President to cover a lot of topics in his speeches. It's also common for him to speak off the cuff. You didn't play a couple of things he did talk about -- education, his interest in bringing prayer back in schools.
And he also said in May, we're going to have everybody come to the National Mall. He invited everybody to the National Mall because we're going to have a national day of prayer and rededicate the phrase, "One Nation Under God". So, he had a few substantive things to say today that were of extreme interest to the religious folks in the room.
PHILLIP: Well, you know what? That is overshadowed by all the other things that were going on in that speech.
FOXX: Yes, you know, when I think about some of what he said there, he talks about himself getting into heaven, maybe yes, no. And this is a man who has absolutely no qualifications to talk about who's going to heaven. I mean, he's a 34-account convicted felon. So, he's been married and divorced --
JENNINGS: A lot of sinners found God, did they not?
FOXX: someone -- liable for sexual assaults --
JENNINGS: How many perfect people have there ever been?
FOXX: Here's the thing.
JENNINGS: One.
FOXX: When I think -- what's top of mind for people of good faith right now, it's the nurse and the mom who were executed in the street by ICE agents, right, for standing up for their neighbors, there's something deeply religious and in tune with my values and standing up for the most vulnerable. And Donald Trump seems to only ever stand up for himself.
JENNINGS: Does that apply to the unborn? Does that apply to the unborn?
FOXX: Let's be clear.
JENNINGS: I guess not. FOXX: We're not all going to face judgment at heaven's gates, but we will face judgment in this lifetime. Your children, your grandchildren will ask what you did when mass ICE agents invaded our streets, and you need to have an answer in this lifetime. And that's true for the folks at home, too.
ALLISON: You know, I used to work that event. I've been to that event several times when I was at the White House because my portfolio was faith outreach. And it's a great event. And in the three years that Obama gave those speeches when I worked there and advanced it and brought them, he actually did not bring politics into it.
He had a diverse representation. I remember one year he had an imam and a rabbi and a preacher to talk about the diversity of faith in this country. And that the beauty of America is that you can worship how you want to worship. You can pray how you want to pray, and you still should be protected under these laws. I'm not surprised by that speech. That's just some speech, you all. It is what it is. But I think --
(CROSSTALK)
STEPLEN: Democrats may not like what he had to say, but you know who does like what he has to say? The people who sit in those pews. He has never been more popular among religious voters, churchgoers. His numbers --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: White evangelicals -- churchgoers.
FOXX: And it sounds like he's having a beef --
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: He won the Catholics by four percent in 2016, 20 percent in white evangelicals.
PHILLIP: Okay, white evangelicals, he's made inroads with Catholics. But I don't think you can say that across all people of faith in this country, Trump is overwhelmingly popular. But let me just say one quick --
(CROSSTALK)
STEPLEN: He improved Hispanic Catholic vote by 42 percent.
ALLISON: Those numbers are no longer holding, my friend.
PHILLIP: Let me just make one quick point, because we do have to go to our night caps. Poll out this week -- 55 percent say Trump is too old to be president, 61 percent say that he does not share their values, and 64 percent says he does not have the right temperament to be president.
And speeches like the one that he gave today really double down on something that is not polling well for him with the American people. So, something for the White House to consider.
Next for us, the panel is going to give us their nightcaps, "Powder Room" edition. We'll tell you about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:31]
PHILLIP: Lots of travelers are furious about the new trend in some hotel bathrooms, barn doors and glass walls and absolutely no privacy in sight. So, our nightcap question tonight is what other hotel feature should be banned? Bill.
STEPLEN: Any drinkware that is not disposable. No coffee mugs, no glassware. Gross. Easy call.
PHILLIP: Unclear if they get actually washed.
PHILLIP: Exactly.
ALLISON: Wash them yourself.
PHILLIP: Deja?
FOXX: For me, it's the envelopes in which you put the tip for the cleaning staff that should just be included in your fee. The times are tough right now, my friends. Add it to the bill. Leave yourself a tip for your cleaning staff. It matters.
ABRAMS: Throw pillows on the beds because they're never cleaned. And I don't want to know what happens in certain instances where someone arrives at the hotel and decides to utilize the bed. And those throw pillows on the bed are not being cleaned ever.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm getting chills. Ashley.
ALLISON: Well, to add on to that, the remotes and the phones.
ABRAMS: Yes, you have to wipe those off.
PHILLIP: Setting a theme here.
ALLISON: Studies show that they the most filthiest component beyond your cups in a -- because they are most used but never really cleaned. And they also attract things when people come into the room and don't have the time --
ABRAMS: After they've been on the throw pillow.
ALLISON: Yes. Everything just dries.
JENNINGS: Bizarrely shaped bathtubs.
[23:00:00] Nobody needs a bathtub unless you've had your kidney removed and they're putting you in a tub of ice. Straight to hotel jail. Dim lights that you can't find the switch for.
ALLISON: Oh, so agree.
JENNINGS: Straight to hotel jail. And finally, closets that contain safes and ironing boards where you can't hang up your clothes. How am I supposed to hang my jacket up in there with your harpsichord sitting there? I don't need that. Give me a closet with nothing in it. All of these things, straight to hotel jail.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: You don't iron as soon as you arrive at the hotel?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The airing of grievances --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Thank you very much. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
