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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Trump Won't Apologize For Racist Video Depicting Obamas As Apes; Trump Voter After Racist Video, I Really Want To Apologize; Trump Says White House Official Erroneously Posted Racist Video; Trump Administration's Justification For Chicago Apartment Building Raid Gets Fact-Checked. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired February 06, 2026 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the White House can't keep its story straight after the president shares a racist video of the Obamas, sparking anger across America.

Plus, if you support Donald Trump, should you own his behavior?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted for the president, supported him, but I really want to apologize. What an embarrassment to our country.

PHILLIP: Also, choppers, zip ties, flash bangs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They was terrified. The kids was crying, people were screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was scary because I've never had a gun put in my face.

PHILLIP: It turns out the Trump administration's justification for the military-style raid of an apartment building wasn't what it seemed.

And Dr. Oz floats a prescription for you to solve the national debt, learn less, work longer.

DR. MEHMET OZ, CMS ADMINISTRATOR: It would generate about $3 trillion to the U.S. economy.

PHILLIP: Live at the table, Arthur Aidala, Ashley Allison, Lydia Moynihan and Jamal Simmons.

Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip.

Six days into Black History Month, America's facing another instance of casual and vile racism, except this time when, once again, it's coming from the president of the United States. Donald Trump shared a video depicting his predecessor, the first and only black president and first lady, as apes.

For centuries, that depiction has been weaponized against black people to dehumanize them, to portray them as animals, beasts and unequal to whites. It's been used to justify atrocities from slavery and lynchings to Jim Crow and, yes, contemporary racism.

Now, comparing black people to apes made it easy to convince white Americans that blacks don't deserve even the most basic of human rights, and so cruelty and brutality were justified. The inevitable consequence, the public extrajudicial torture of another human. Victims were tied to trees. The killers cut off body parts to distribute to the crowd as souvenirs.

The Jim Crow Museum describes that whites considered these brutal events necessary to equal the brutality of the victim, or in other words, treatment befitting of an animal.

The museum mentions that whites would argue that slavery was necessary because it suppressed the animalistic tendencies of black people. The brute stereotype was particularly prominent in content warning about rape threats against white women.

Now, in the early 1900s, consider some of the language in the culture. Writers described black people as the tempters of Eve, who were born with racial instincts and sexual madness and excess. One even wrote that emancipation led black people from being a chattel to be bought and sold into a beast to be feared and guarded. Another book described them as half child, half animal, in other words, a predator.

It also describes the rape of a white woman this way, quote, a single tiger springs and the black claws of the beast sank into the soft white throat.

Lawmakers would later use these types of brute rape tropes to oppose anti-lynching bills.

It wasn't just prominent in America also. It was a theme in Hitler's writings when describing minority groups that he found to be inferior. He labeled blacks, for example, as half apes. Later in the civil rights era, white supremacists used ape-like caricatures of black men threatening white women in their propaganda. And, of course, in the modern era, during Barack Obama's candidacy and presidency, racists passed out monkey T-shirts, monkey dolls appeared at Republican rallies and a viral image labeled Air Force One as Watermelon One, featuring the face of a smiling monkey.

The New York Post apologized for a chimp cartoon and Roseanne Barr was fired for comparing an Obama adviser to Planet of the Apes.

[22:05:05]

And, of course, Donald Trump, Donald Trump began his political rise with the birther movement, painting Obama as not one of us. Now, if you think this is all just an internet joke, as the White House first described it, consider this. A series of studies in the 2000s revealed that younger Americans who were born after the civil rights era were influenced by ape analogies when making judgments about black people. That includes some condoning, the beating of black suspects by police, when they were given subliminal words associated with apes, chimps, or gorillas.

Separately, the studies found that black defendants convicted of capital crimes between 1979 and 1999 were four times more likely than convicted whites to be described as savage and brute and beast, which, of course, are associated with apes.

Now, this type of racism may come as a surprise to many white Americans or to the Republicans expressing shock by the president's post, despite his long history of this kind of behavior, but black Americans know this well, because so many of them lived it firsthand. And for the Obamas, this is nothing new. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: I was just sort of waking up to the truth of who we can be so ready to assume the worst in people. The only thing I can do is share that that does hurt, because if we walk around pretending like it doesn't hurt, the perpetrator, just say, oh, I was just joking, it's just politics. It was like no, no, no, no, no. That changes the shape of a person's soul.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Our panel is here and we're going to discuss. I want to play though what President Trump said about this tonight when he was asked, and you're going to hear in this clip yet another version of the story of what happened with that post. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I didn't see the whole thing. I guess during the end of it, there was some kind of a -- people don't like. I wouldn't like it either. But I didn't see it. I just -- I looked in the first part and it was really about voter fraud in and the machines, how crooked it is, how disgusting it is. Then I gave it to the people, generally, they'd look at the whole thing, but I guess somebody didn't, and they posted and we took it down.

REPORTER: Mr. President, a number of Republicans are calling on you to apologize for that post. Is that something you're going to do?

TRUMP: No, I didn't make a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, he's acknowledging to some extent that he saw it, he gave it to his people for them to post and they posted it.

Lydia, when you hear that, you see the post, the long history that President Trump has, do you understand why many Americans believe that President Trump is a racist, full stop?

LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: I mean, look, I think it was an inappropriate video. I'm glad that he took it down. I wish he would apologize. Hopefully, he still will. But it was clear that he posted about 32 socials and this moment came at the end of a minute- long clip. So, I think everything that you brought up is super important, but I don't think that posting a video where there's one second where he likely didn't even see that part is the same or equivocal.

And I don't think that you can say that he's racist because of 1 of 30 Truth Social posts that he posted last night.

PHILLIP: But I don't think it's just the Truth Social posts. I mean, it's definitely not just the Truth Social posts. And also he had an opportunity there to say -- to condemn it, to speak to the American people about his values. He didn't.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, maybe he shouldn't do 30 Truth Social posts first. That's the first mistake. Maybe second mistake is that he should watch the whole thing before it comes from the White House video.

But, look, I think that as a person with eyes and ears, I'm not surprised that this is who Donald Trump is, but this is the problem, is that every time he does something that signifies racism, that signifies being a racist, the goalpost moves. It's, oh, it shouldn't have been 30.

Let me tell you why people can come to the conclusion about his racist behaviors. Because in the 70s when you discriminated against black people in housing, that was racist. In the 80s and 90s when he called for the execution of the Central Park 5, only for them to be exonerated because they did not commit the crime against a white woman, reflecting what Abby talked in her opening segment, that was a racist. And even after they were exonerated, he still called for them to be prosecuted. That is racist behavior.

When he ran for the first term, he birthed his career off of demonizing a black man and saying he wasn't American and that he wasn't one of us.

[22:10:07]

In his actual first term, he called African countries shithole and asshole countries. And then most recently, he posts monkeys. He said they were eating the cats and dogs.

I don't have to take one second of a video that he says he does not -- he did not see. Problematic point, blank period should be enough, but there's a history of it. So, what are we supposed to say? Oh, just keep moving the goalposts until we're literally in the depths of hell? No. His behavior is his behavior.

And at one point in time, over the last four weeks, let's just say, though, next, last four weeks, children will look and say, and I think they will refer this time period to the time period where little black kids walked into segregated schools and there were people screaming at them, calling the most obscene words possible. And I just plead with people, you don't want to be those people that wanted to stop segregation. You have to stand in the gap and call a right a right and a wrong a wrong. And you can still support his policies, but you cannot support that behavior.

ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't -- like I'm not -- I haven't heard anyone supporting that behavior. I mean, I haven't heard anyone supporting that behavior. But maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anyone say that's a good thing, and as we all know --

PHILLIP: I'll give you one example if you want. I mean, actually, let me take that. I have a few examples,

AIDALA: But the biggest thing is he took it down, so he's not supportive of it.

PHILLIP: I know the points you're making. But just to point out, there's a divide here, right? There are the people, lawmakers, who, you know, are criticizing him, and then there's Laura Loomer who advises the president, is there all the time. She says Donald Trump did nothing wrong. Nobody has done more for black people than Donald Trump. She also called for Tim Scott to be -- she called for Tim Scott to resign because he condemned Trump. You've got Benny Johnson saying, a hoax, you got tricked into falling for by Democrats. Dinesh D'Souza says, in context, this is both amusing and harmless, another race hoax from the left. There's more, another case of Trump derangement syndrome, et cetera, et cetera.

There are these people and then there are also the Republicans who will condemn this as if it is a thing in isolation. But Trump keeps doing it over and over and over again. And I think, you know, to Dinesh D'Souza's point, when Democrats bring up race, it's always because they're using it as a weapon, but, actually, Trump is bringing up race all the time and using it as a political weapon.

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. The fundamental underlying underbelly of the Trump political movement, sure there are people who vote for him for taxes, and there are people who vote for him because they think that the elites are not paying attention to them and all those things. But the underbelly, the thing that is the base level element of the Trump movement is this fear of many white Americans about the changing culture that's happen in America, the changing demographics of America. And here's the truth, the majority of America or the largest racial group in America is going to be white people for, as far as the eye can see. We still have the most popular music in America. It is country music, right? Most people in America are Christians. White Christian culture is fine. 90 percent of the people who run CEOs and companies are white people. It's going to be fine.

The president is playing on this and this -- but the only way that those white people that the country's going to be fine is going to work out is if the African Americans, the Asian Americans, the Latinos, if we all play on the same team, and what Donald Trump is arguing is that we're not going to play on the same team. We have to be first, they have to be last. It's an apartheid-style, segregationist-type approach to how we're going to govern this country. And Americans who disagree with that have to stand up. Today, I felt like a few of them did. We need more.

MOYNIHAN: It's interesting, though. I mean, Donald Trump has received a larger percentage of black votes than any other Republican candidate this century, right? There was a shift of -- it was 4 percent when John McCain ran. Now, it's about 15 percent for Trump.

So, I guess, I'm curious to get your take on if he is regarded as a racist figure, which I do not agree with, how would so many voters be turning to him?

ALLISON: Well, to be fair, black people still overwhelmingly voted against Donald Trump than any other demographic in this country. So, yes, 92 percent of black women voted for Donald Trump -- or for Kamala Harris and 78 percent of black men. That is still an overwhelming majority.

And I would ask, actually, that's a great question because for those black Americans that go to the Black History event at the Trump White House, for those black Americans who wear MAGA hats, what do you think about that video? Do you want an apology? I think there are some things that require more than just taking it down.

[22:15:02]

There are some things that can't be unseen.

AIDALA: I think the people are the CEOs that Jamal's talking about.

ALLISON: No, they're not.

AIDALA: No. Who are voting for Donald Trump, the African American people who are voting for Donald Trump, I don't think they're living in Brownsville, Brooklyn.

SIMMONS: I think some of them are.

ALLISON: Some of them are.

AIDALA: Okay, maybe some of them are. But, listen, those communities are also very family-oriented, traditional conservative, religiously conservative communities, that they're not down with a lot of the DSA because, you know, New York now, we're in the DSA town, they're not down --

PHILLIP: The Democratic Socialists of America.

AIDALA: Right, the Democratic socialists, so they're not down with that. They're more down with the Republican traditional family values. So, I think that's part of it.

And, Abby, the one thing I'm going to agree with you -- disagree with you about is, you know, you said Donald Trump is over and over and over and over and over again like doing these racial things. I mean, I don't -- I think that's a bit of an exaggeration that it's over and over and over.

PHILLIP: I don't think it's an exaggeration at all. I mean, we have -- look, let me just play -- we talked about the history that Ashley just illustrated, the housing discrimination, the Central Park 5. Here is a --

AIDALA: It's a long time ago.

PHILLIP: Okay. Here are his own --

ALLISON: But monkeys and apes were today.

PHILLIP: Here are his own -- let's just play it. Let's just play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Why is it we only take people from shithole countries?

I don't want them in our country, I'll be honest with you.

In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats.

Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden?

We're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country.

I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black.

We always take people from Somalia.

Filthy, dirty, disgusting, ridden with crime.

They're taking black jobs now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, I mean, look, depending on what's important to you, there are words, there are actions. There's also policy. They've got a policy towards South Africa that says, if you're white, you can come here. If you're not, you can't. What else?

I think your point is well-taken that Trump has made a lot of inroads in minority communities, and I think that's why you saw a lot of panic among MAGA, black MAGA Republicans. But to Ashley's point, the overwhelming majority of black people in this country, and increasingly Latino people, if you look at the polls, they don't like what they're seeing out of Donald Trump.

And when people say that Donald Trump continues to do and say racist things, how do you -- what is the counterargument to that when it's right there on -- in black and white on paper? MOYNIHAN: I guess one thing that is interesting to me is we never heard Biden criticized, and he eulogized a KKK recruiter, Senator Byrd. He said some kind of insane, racist things, like poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids. He didn't want his children growing up in a racial jungle. So --

PHILLIP: You're talking about that's what Byrd said?

MOYNIHAN: No, that was what Biden said. So, he was president for four years.

ALLISON: Okay. This is the problem with American politics.

MOYNIHAN: And you never heard outrage about that.

ALLISON: Actually you did someone, who worked on the Biden campaign, black people were very critical of what Joe Biden did around the '94 crime bill. And I --

MOYNIHAN: It's far more recently.

ALLISON: But here's the thing.

MOYNIHAN: He said in that election, here's if you don't vote for me, you ain't black.

ALLISON: Guess what? And you know what? Joe Biden is not the president anymore, right? And part of what is the outcome is when people say things, there are consequences. We are not talking about Joe Biden. We are talking about on February 6th, 2026, in the year of our Lord and Savior, Donald Trump re-tweeted the former black -- first black president of the United States, first black first lady of the United States, and they, did you watch the opening of Abby? He re-tweeted them or re-Truth them or whatever he does, as apes, full stop. I don't care what Joe Biden said.

Demand more from your president have the moral courage to demand --

MOYNIHAN: To Arthur's point --

AIDALA: But he would -- look, he withdrew it, right, number one, and, number two --

SIMMONS: Accurately lied about it.

AIDALA: Okay. But just --

ALLISON: He didn't apologize, though. He didn't apologize. A withdrawal and an apology are not the same thing.

AIDALA: Some people who didn't see it, no. He didn't create this video. He is just --

ALLISON: That doesn't matter.

AIDALA: No, it absolutely does matter. He sat there and he said, let me make these people look like this, that's a big difference.

PHILLIP: I don't think that matters, Arthur.

AIDALA: Okay. I'm going to respectfully disagree that it would matter if he thought about it.

Let me ask something. Would you be offended if that video, because it's all the animals, if Barack Obama and Mrs. Obama were on the heads of elephants as opposed to -- because I think Hakeem Jeffries on the head of like a mongoose --

ALLISON: No, he had Hakeem Jeffries in a mariachi-style outfit, which is also racist. But that towards Latino.

MOYNIHAN: Arthur's referring to the video --

AIDALA: The video, this animal video, if the Obamas were too --

ALLISON: But they weren't. But guess what? They weren't.

AIDALA: But I'm asking you a question. Would you be as offended if they were giraffes?

ALLISON: I think it would be.

AIDALA: I mean, I would be, because I think it's just disrespectful.

ALLISON: Yes, that's right. It would be disrespectful. It would be disrespectful.

AIDALA: I wouldn't say it's racial to say he's on the heads of giraffes.

ALLISON: But he's not here stupid. He's not stupid. It wasn't giraffes. It was apes.

[22:20:02]

And so there is no hypothetical in this situation.

SIMMONS: Well, here's the thing. We just watched what Abby put out. We watched an entire segment, an entire montage of Donald Trump saying racial things. So, if you said Donald Trump was, you know, this great sort of racial uniter, he was trying to bring us together, and then he did something like this, okay, maybe he made a mistake. But that's not what happened. This is a litany of Donald Trump's action.

PHILLIP: We're going to pause and continue, and we come back. And, you know, worth noting also, the president had an opportunity today to say something about it. He didn't, okay?

So, next, should Trump supporters own his bad behavior? One voter says that he wants to apologize for voting for him tonight.

Plus, it turns out the administration's military-style raid on a Chicago apartment building didn't go down the way DHS claimed. We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:25:00]

PHILLIP: After another controversy involving Donald Trump and race, should Trump supporters own his bad behavior? One Republican who voted for Trump three times called into C-SPAN's Washington Journal today to voice his growing frustrations with the president in recent weeks,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I voted for the president, supported him. But I really want to apologize. I mean, I'm looking at this awful picture of the Obamas. What an embarrassment to our country. All this man does is tell lies. He is not worthy of the presidency. He takes bribes blatantly, and now he's being a racist blatantly.

He's pathetic as a president, and I just want to apologize to everybody in the country for supporting this rotten, rotten man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: C-SPAN Washington Journal continues to be a national treasure. How many more people do you think that that man speaks for in this moment? Just given everything, not just this post, the last year, the DOGE, the ICE, all of it?

AIDALA: Look, no one should be shocked about President Trump saying things that are objectionable. I was on live television when he said, I don't consider John McCain a war hero. And I said on live television, well, that's the end of his presidency. I commented that, you know, this is the end of him when he got caught with Billy Bush talking about grabbing women's private parts. I thought that was the end of him.

People didn't elect him to be the politically correct guy. You had to be a moron to think he's going to be the politically correct president. He's not going to be elegant. He's not going to be classy. That's not who he is. He's a brash Queens businessman who ripped off a lot of people when he was a businessman. He stiffed a lot of people, especially down in Atlantic City. But there was obviously a hunk of the citizens of this country knowing all of those things, knowing what he said about McCain, knowing how he treated his wife, knowing how he treated his wives and all that. But I guess they also looked at his children and said, well, his children love him. They adore him. I guess they look at his polling.

Look, Abby, I would, nobody thought he was going to win that primary of 18 Republicans.

PHILLIP: Does it reflect on if you are a Trump supporter and you -- it doesn't matter to you that he is trafficking in racist tropes, does that reflect back on you?

AIDALA: If you were Menendez supporter who was convicted of bribes -- MOYNIHAN: Earlier this week, in a really ugly incident we saw in Minnesota, protesters called an ICE officer the N word.

PHILLIP: Those protesters are not the president of the United States.

MOYNIHAN: Do leftists have to own that?

ALLISON: That was unacceptable too, yes.

MOYNIHAN: I don't think that leftists have to own that. I don't think that Republicans have to own --

PHILLIP: But he is the president. That's a important fact here he is the president. Let me play with the Erick Erickson sound about this because he addresses essentially that piece of it. Trump is the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERICK ERICKSON, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: It's appalling. The people are like, well, he didn't -- maybe he didn't see the end of the video. He's the president of the United States of America. Stop excusing everything he does. At some point, the president needs to understand you're going to lose the midterms. You're going to get impeached. It's not just about you, sir. It's about all of us, the things we voted for.

The middle finger of the majority of Americans will be hoisted at the Republicans in November if the president's behaviors and impulses and strategies, or lack thereof, don't change,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I mean, do you take the point that he's making, Lydia?

MOYNIHAN: Look, it's fair. I mean, and obviously the midterms are going to be sort of a moment of where we face the reality of where the American voters are. So, watershed moment.

SIMMONS: I mean, there's an older white guy who I see in my neighborhood a lot. I think he probably voted for Donald Trump. We never talk about politics, talk about sports, talk about kids, talk about dogs, all the other things. The other day he said to me, he came, he said it was super cold. He said, maybe this is Trump's way of getting us ready to go to Greenland, right? And then he started talking about what's going on with this guy? This guy's really out of control. He never talked to politics about me. He talked to me about politics before.

I think that this is all starting to wear thin. The bribery and the corruption or the attempted -- we don't know if it's actual bribery, but the corruption we are seeing the way that Trump is with Greenland, we are seeing Venezuela, and then defending and attacking people who were shot dead in Minneapolis by police forces that he leads.

[22:30:08] I think people are now starting to realize this is not what they voted for and the economy isn't getting any better either.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: What is the reason why we're still having to go through this?

AIDALA: Okay, so here's the question and you've been deep into politics, all of you, much more than I have. But if in August, gas prices are way down, way down and they'll sink like a $1.99.

And then by September, the stock market surging and the price of eggs are down, and the price of this, and all of a sudden people have more money in their pocket. Does the money and the comfort level and the taxes, breaks or whatever, does that outweigh every other thing we're talking about?

SIMMONS: There is a moment -- let me just say this. There is a moment that's a breaking point for every presidency. And the Biden administration, I think it was after Afghanistan. When people saw on television what happened in Afghanistan, it didn't matter. Even when they liked the policy that was coming out, they wouldn't credit Joe Biden for being the person who actually was responsible for it. I think we are reaching the point where people believe Donald Trump is incompetent. He's boorish. He's corrupt. And they don't actually trust this guy.

ALLISON: Can I just say one thing about that caller though? The apology is accepted, you know. And I think that like there were -- there are periods in time when folks were on the wrong side of history and they realize their error and they try to correct it.

And I think the only way we get past this period is to apply forgiveness and say, you can come here. There is a home here. We might not always agree, but the courage to acknowledge when you do something wrong is actually more than the President did today. That caller did it. The President did not.

PHILLIP: All right, guys. Next for us, the Trump administration's justification for that raid on a Chicago apartment building in September gets fact-checked. And it turns out it had nothing to do with the gangs like they claimed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:36:31]

PHILLIP: A Black Hawk helicopter, flash bangs and zip ties, guns drawn, doors kicked in, and 37 undocumented immigrants arrested. American children separated from their parents. For months, the Trump administration had justified a military-style raid on a Chicago apartment complex by claiming that the building had been taken over by Tren de Aragua. In reality, authorities were looking for squatters, not Venezuelan gang members, and they had been given express permission by the building's landlord. A new report from "ProPublica" reveals DHS made no mention of Tren de

Aragua in arrest documents. And in another instance where DHS's claims appeared loosely tethered to reality, the Department is now acknowledging that just two of those arrested were gang members. But they have yet to put forward any proof of that either.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: It was scary because I've never had a gun put in my face. They asked my name and my date of birth, and asked me did I have any warrants and I told them no.

UNKNOWN: They was terrified. The kids was crying. People were screaming. They looked very distraughted. I was out there crying when I seen the little girl come around the corner. They --because they was bringing the kids out too, had them zip tied to each other. That's all I kept asking. Where's the morality? Where's the human?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: It's important to go back to these stories because I think part of the pattern here is deception by DHS. Stephen Miller, after this raid -- let me just play what he said about what went on there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WH DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: The raid she's talking about in Chicago was a brilliantly executed raid against a Tren de Aragua complex filled with TDA terrorists. It's one the most successful law enforcement operations that we've seen in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: They were repelling off of -- out of helicopters to go into an apartment building where many Americans lived, knocking down most doors in that building.

AIDALA: So --

PHILLIP: It's kind of a big deal.

AIDALA: I agree with you 100 percent. One year ago, right here on this show, what we were talking about was DOGE, right? Everyone agreed that we wanted to cut some of the fat out of the budget but everyone wheeled least agreed, that what was being done with the chainsaw as opposed to a scalpel. And that's exactly what's happening here.

So, when -- cause I'm not a fan of these tactics at all. And when my friends push back, well, Obama did more of this and Biden did more of that. I said, but they didn't do it this way. In other words, it was much more tactical. I will tell you, and of course I'm a native New Yorker, the NYPD would never conduct themselves like this. You saw, we were on air live when they had to take back Columbia University. Not one person got hurt.

This is just not the way it should be happening. It should be this -- there should be a list. We know we're going in like a search warrant. We know we're going in. We know -- we have credible evidence that these people are there for these reasons and they should be removed, and it should be done in a much more tactical way. This is back to DOGE. This is the chainsaw method.

Let's go in. Let's grab everyone and let's see what happens. And little kids should not be being zip-tied and taken out into the street, and subjected to this mental and emotional scarring that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

So, yes, we agree that there are people who are in this country who should not be in this country, and maybe be a danger to this country and should be removed. But let's make sure we're getting the right people and we're getting them in the right way.

ALLISON: But when that happened, I sat in this very chair and a Republican sat and not you, but a Republican sat in this very chair and defended it and said, because it was Tren de Aragua, and because they were doing it. And I was like, but they're kids, they're kids. And this is what they said to me. They justified that treatment of those children if it would have gotten one Tren de Aragua. And it's because they didn't have those facts that they have tonight.

But that wasn't right then either without those facts. They're children. They were American citizens. There is a different approach to how we should be dealing with immigration right now. And my concern is -- and I think it is actually all connected, if I want to be honest, I think it is easy for an administration to treat black people like that, brown people like that when you retweet an image and the former black president was an ape. And it is hard for me to not disconnect the two.

As someone who lives in this country, people always claim, oh, she's a race baiter. I'm a black woman. I live my life like that. I would have loved to wake up and not see that today. But am I supposed to just pretend like it doesn't happen? Am I supposed to just pretend like the woman and the children in that image did not look like me?

You can't. It prevents you from having the complexity of thought, the intellectual rigor to make good policy decisions. And this administration has gone too far. And the reality is the only people that will bring them back in is other Republicans who have the moral courage to say, stop it. You don't represent me. I don't want you to represent me.

PHILLIP: Well --

AIDALA: And you know, everyone voted for him. His number one issue was immigration.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: But not this way.

PHILLIP: Well, yes, well, look, listen.

AIDALA: I agree with you.

PHILLIP: Increasingly, increasingly, the American people are pushing back on this. It's starting with -- I mean, Democrats for sure, but Independents increasingly are saying, we don't like this at all. And there's even been some erosion among Republican support. It's still popular among Republicans, but there's been erosion for Trump.

So, look, mean, first of all, I think the tactics as we've discussed are problematic. But I also think the lies are problematic, too.

ALLISON: Yes.

PHILLIP: The story that comes out of DHS, not just in this incident, but in many others, there was another where a woman was shot at almost point blank range by Border Patrol officers, and they dropped the case against her.

And her lawyer says it's because the video, the body cam video, directly contradicts their version of what happened in that incident. And not only that, but there are text messages that show the agents joking about shooting her. So, the stories are false and people don't trust them anymore.

MOYNIHAN: Trump's number one issue still is immigration and 61 percent still support deporting illegals, 58 percent oppose defunding ICE. So look, the reality is when you have 10, 20 million people who come in here and your edict is to implement the largest mass deportation in history, there's going to be some messy moments.

I think when you actually look at the numbers, he hasn't deported any citizens, Obama deported four citizens. So, I'm not going to say that ICE has been perfect 100 percent of the time, but they actually got two Tren de Aragua gang members.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: First of all, they haven't actually presented any evidence of that. That's the first thing. But I mean, you, I mean, are you comfortable with how this is being carried out? Because you know, a Republican official said to a news outlet, that Trump is basically taking a lot of these issues, and he's turning them into liabilities for Republicans. '

And they thought maybe they'd have a shot at keeping the Senate, and that's looking tough now. So I mean, even if you want to give Trump leeway, the political consequences are very apparent. They're right in front of Republicans.

MOYNIHAN: Yes, I mean, the polling would suggest this is still one of the more popular issues.

PHILLIP: But it's in the negative, Lydia. I mean, that's like saying, I mean, okay, he is in the negative on virtually every issue. He is less in the negative on immigration, but it is still a negative issue for him. That's the --

(CROSSTALK)

MOYNIHAN: Yes, I guess we'll see, you know, and in Iowa in 2024, he was supposedly going to lose by double digits and he won by double digits.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: But are you okay with children being zip tied?

MOYNIHAN: So, I think we're cautious -- we're cautious with polls. Children were not zip-tied.

ALLISON: There was a woman who watched it and said children were zip- tied. Are you okay with that? He asked me that hypothetical -- hypothetically, would you be okay with it if that did happen?

MOYNIHAN: No, I don't want to see children's zip tied. Of course not.

ALLISON: Okay. So, if that was actually true, is it too far for the Trump administration? Can you say that?

MOYNIHAN: I don't want to see -- I don't want to see children's zip tied.

ALLISON: Okay.

MOYNIHAN: I don't think that's hard. I also am very pleased to hear that one terror watch list member was part of that raid. There were two gang members, part of Tren de Aragua. So, I'm excited to see that and --

PHILLIP: The Trump administration has not passed any charges in that raid.

[22:45:01]

And I think that's important because if they had the evidence of the things that they were accusing these people of, they would put it in court and they would bring these people to justice for their crimes.

ALLISON: Renee Good, Alex Pretti.

PHILLIP: We got to go guys. All right, next for us. Dr. Oz says Americans should work earlier and retire later to help solve the debt crisis. We'll debate that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:06]

PHILLIP: Tonight, Dr. Oz has a prescription for Americans -- learn less, work longer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEHMET OZ, MEDICAID AND MEDICARE ADMINISTRATOR: If we could get the average American, because they feel healthy, they're vital, they're strong, they have agency over their future, to start working a year earlier, right out of high school, or work a year later, not retire, or work better during their lifetime because they're healthy, it would generate about $3 trillion -- $3 trillion to the U.S. economy. That would more than remove the debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Somewhat controversial comments there. Let me play what he said today on CNN to try to clean that up a little bit. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OZ: You shouldn't work longer because you have to. You should work longer because you want to. If we took the average retirement age from 62, right, not because you have to, not by a law, not because Washington says it, but because you don't want to stop working, that's a great thing and we generate so much value for the economy, it happens to solve the deficit, that's not the greatest benefit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Jamal, okay, I'll let you go first. Go ahead.

SIMMONS: You know what else would get $3 trillion if we lifted the Social Security cap on income? We taxed Social Security at $176,000 in income. If we said we're going to tax Social Security for everybody, for however much money you made, we could raise $3.2 trillion. That would take care of it. The problem here is --

PHILLIP: Don't you got to have to then actually pay out that money to those people who are making less money? Which is not going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: Yes and you know what that means? Which would take it down to about $2.7 trillion in that income after you get finished doing that. So, you're so close to three.

PHILLIP: I'm just saying most Americans don't believe Social Security is going to be there for them. Period.

ALLISON: That's right.

SIMMONS: Right. So, you've got 18 to 29 year old -- 54 million 18 to 29 year olds who are sitting on $320 billion worth of student debt who are living at home, 50 percent of them, who 74 percent of them don't believe the American dream, is going to be attainable for them.

What are we going to do to get them lifted? Telling them they're going to have to work earlier and work longer is not a way to change their attitude about how America's going to work in their benefit or their parents who want them to succeed.

PHILLIP: Arthur?

AIDALA: Listen, I was on my radio show tonight talking about this. It's Friday, I'm working late, I'm here, I'm late, I'm not home with my family.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: You're definitely going to be working until you're --

AIDALA: Well, yes, but I'm blessed. Like I was able, and I know that I'm in somewhat of unique situation. I was able to find a job that I love to do, so I don't really consider it work. So, yes, I mean, like 62, I would say people are in their prime at 62 years old. That's when you should be, I'm serious. That's when you should be, you have the knowledge, you have the experience, you have the background. Whatever it is.

If you're a painter, if you're a roofer, you've made all the mistakes. Hopefully, you've gotten it out of the way. I mean, some of the most brilliant jurists in my profession and the most brilliant lawyers, men and women are in their 60s.

(CROSSTALK)

AIDALA: The mayors, the governors --

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: I grew up -- a lot of people were working in factories, standing on feet all day, doing repetitive motion.

(CROSSTALK)

AIDALA: I get it.

SIMMONS: They are not equipped.

AIDALA: I started by saying I'm very lucky and I'm really fortunate.

PHILLIP: I'm highlighting a really important point because there's a disparity here. There are people who sit in offices all day, like all of us do, and work on computers. And yes, we can be, you know, exercising in our free time. But if you're working with your hands and you're getting sick, six in 10 retirees retired sooner than they wanted to, sooner than they planned. Among those, nearly half retired for personal health reasons, such as physical limitations or disability or ill health. I mean, people are sick.

ALLISON: Yes.

PHILLIP: They're getting hurt at work. And health care is not free in this country.

ALLISON: Yes. PHILLIP: I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying it is not.

ALLISON: Can I also just say most people do get a job when they graduated from high school. Like you'd turning 18. Most people actually have jobs when they're in school.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: They're like, they have their summer jobs. But the other thing is there are more -- there are --probably in this moment, there are more people working after the age of 62 now because their social security actually won't cover their expenses because our economy is so bad. There are -- how many times have you encountered an elderly person at a rental car location, or at a grocery store, or at the Walmart or wherever, and they're bagging groceries or they're working at the checkout counter or they're stocking shelves?

And I, just saying, God, that could be my grandmother. God, that could be my mother, and they paid their dues, they should be able to retire.

PHILLIP: And they do tend to be women --

ALLISON: They do. Yes.

PHILLIP: -- because there's a huge retirement gap among women --

ALLISON: They can't retire because they can't afford to live in this country.

SIMMONS: And the men die earlier.

PHILLIP: Lydia.

MOYNIHAN: Well, I'm hoping with artificial intelligence we'll get a four-day work week but look, the reality is when FDR implemented social security, it kicked in at 65 and the average life expectancy was 64. Now the life expectancy is 79 which is a blessing. But I think in Europe, they're facing this crisis where they're pushing the retirement age up to 70. So, the reality is when you look at the economy, something's got to give and --

[22:55:02]

(CROSSTALK)

AIDALA: And we are healthier, and we have medicine and so much better now --

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: Who in your primary -- wasn't it Nikki Haley who said she wanted to raise a retirement age and what -- I mean her campaign was already shaky.

(CROSSTALK)

MOYNIHAN: Well, look, obviously, it's not popular.

(CROSSTALK)

ALLISON: Good luck --

(CROSSTALK)

SIMMONS: And ultimately the benefit of A.I. is going to go to the investors, not going to go to the workers.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much for being here. Next for us, breaking news tonight. The feds are aware of a new message sent to a local network in the disappearance of Savannah Guthrie's mother. And now, a new search is happening at her home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:00:13]

PHILLIP: The comedians of "Have I Got News For You" are back and this week, Senator Adam Schiff and comedian Hassan Minhaj are joining the crew. You can catch the all new episode tomorrow at 9 P.M. right here on CNN. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". Be sure to catch our Saturday morning conversation show tomorrow, "Table for Five" at 10 A.M. Eastern. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.