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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump's Deadline Looms As Iran Rejects Ceasefire Proposal; Trump Dismisses Concerns Of War Crimes At Tomorrow's Deadline; Now, Artemis II Crew Discusses Historic Moon Flyby; President Trump Speaks With Artemis II Mission Integrity Crew; President Trump Under Fire For Truth Social Posts. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 06, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the madman theory or a misunderstanding of the enemy. Less than 24 hours before Donald Trump's deadline, the threats against Iran escalate.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The entire country could be taken out in one night.
PHILLIP: plus the president's unorthodox approach to war from potential crimes --
REPORTER: Are there certain kinds of civilian targets, though, I'm thinking --
TRUMP: I don't want to tell you that.
PHILLIP: -- to oil.
TRUMP: If I had my choice, what would I like to do? Take the oil.
PHILLIP: Also, just three weeks before he attends an event, celebrating the First Amendment, the president threatens to put a journalist behind bars.
TRUMP: National security, give it up a go to jail.
PHILLIP: And after Trump is accused of mocking Islam, the United States keeps invoking religion in its war.
REPORTER: Do you believe that God supports the United States' actions in this war?
TRUMP: I do because God is good.
PHILLIP: Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Jamal Simmons, Lydia Moynihan, Sabrina Singh and Max Boot.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
We are now 22 hours away from President Trump's deadline threat to Iran, make a deal or reopen the Strait of Hormuz, or they'll face hell, specifically the U.S. bombing power plants, civilian infrastructure, including bridges. State media says that Iran has rejected the most recent ceasefire deal and instead they've submitted a ten-point proposal of their own. It includes an end to the war and regional hostilities, reconstruction of war damage, safe passage through the Strait of Hormuz, and lifting sanctions, among other demands. But so far, Trump is holding firm on his 8:00 P.M. deadline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The entire country could be taken out in one night, and that night might be tomorrow night.
We're giving them until tomorrow, 8:00 Eastern Time. And after that, they're going to have no bridges, they're going to have no power plants, stone ages, yes.
Do I want to destroy their infrastructure? No. It will take them a hundred years to rebuild.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: If no deal is reached, it's hard to see a way to get out of a threat like that after he's delayed it multiple times already. Trump first set the two-day deadline on March 21st. He threatened to bomb power plants if the strait wasn't open then. But just hours before that deadline, Trump said, talks with Iran were going well. So, he delayed the infrastructure attack for another five days. Iran denied that those talks were even happening.
But three days after that, Trump announced a ten-day pause on, quote, infrastructure plant destruction at the request of Iran. And it appears now that the Tuesday 8:00 P.M. Eastern deadline is holding for now. But after repeatedly claiming victory and claiming that the war would be over in a week or two from now, Trump was asked if that timeline has changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, your messaging on the war has moved from, the war is coming to an end to war, going to be bombing Iran to the stone ages.
TRUMP: Right.
REPORTER: And we've heard a range of those kind of messages.
TRUMP: Sure.
REPORTER: So, are you -- so which is it? Are you winding this down or are you escalating it?
TRUMP: I can't tell you. I don't know. I can't tell you. It depends what they do. This is a critical period. They have until tomorrow. Now, we'll see what happens. I can tell you they're negotiating, we think, in good faith we're going to find out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, there's a basic question here is that, is it that Iran even is responsive to the kinds of threats that Trump keeps putting on the table and then pushing farther away from actually coming to fruition with every day that passes?
MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Oh, there's no indication to me that the Iranians are feeling pressured by Trump's threats.
[22:05:05]
And remember, he is been making these threats for more than a month, backing it up with a massive bombing campaign. But from the Iranian perspective, they're more than holding their own because they're able to continue firing their missiles and drones. They're able to inflict damage on the Persian Gulf states. And most importantly of all, they're able to maintain a hammer lock on the Strait of Hormuz, and thereby cutting off roughly 20 percent of the world's oil supply.
So, I think, from the Iranian perspective, their view is if they knuckle under now, their entire regime is going to be at risk. And you could possibly have the Israelis and Americans bombing them again in the near future, so they're obviously hanging tough. And even if Trump carries out his blood-curdling threats to wipe out their power plants and all the rest of it, I don't see the Iranians reopening the Strait of Hormuz even if that were to happen.
What I do see happening is the Iranians hitting back at Persian Gulf energy infrastructure and causing a massive humanitarian and economic crisis that will dwarf the one that we're already in right now.
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I also think, just to Max's point that he was making, is that Iran still maintains and does still have capabilities that were clearly seen, you know, capable of shooting down a fighter aircraft, or an F-15E. So, even though, you know, the president keeps putting these timelines on, he sort of box keeps boxing himself in each time and like moves the goalposts each time he extends the deadlines, when the reality is that, what Max was saying, is that Iran has time and is willing to run down the clock repeatedly and continues to do so while the president continues to box himself into these sort of arbitrary deadlines.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, the fact that the deadlines keep changing, Scott, I mean, that alone seems to signal to the Iranians that Trump is hesitating on carrying out his own threats.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it also means there's obviously conversations going on in the background that are somewhat opaque to all of us sitting here at the table. You know, I think the president wants an outcome here that would end the war but on our terms. The number one issue is what are they going to do with the nuclear material? How are we going to guarantee that the Iranians never build a nuclear bomb that can threaten us, threaten the region, threaten Europe, whatever. And so that's the number one issue.
And I'm sure that's number one on his list, is they have these back channel mediated discussions. If they won't give up their nuclear ambitions, you know, I suspect that's going to be a red line the president won't accept. You know, they have until 8:00 tomorrow night. And, you know, he was asked this morning if he's going to move it, he said, no. You know, we'll see what happens tomorrow night. I mean, beyond that, I don't know if any of us are in a position to know the answers to some of these questions.
PHILLIP: We're not. But we are -- we do have his past actions to guide us, which is that he has moved it all those times that we just listed.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. It's just not much of a red line. I mean, you can't even call it a red line if they keep moving it every time they've changed --
JENNINGS: Well, we've been bombing them for a month. I'd say they crossed it. Don't you think?
SIMMONS: No, I don't think that --
JENNINGS: We have bombed their military into submission. We've sunk their navy. You know, they really don't have much military left.
The issue for us, Jamal, is we don't want these fanatics to build a nuclear missile that can threaten the region. Now, they have -- they've had some missiles that can go to Europe. We don't want that. That is the number one issue. And, you know, however that comes out, that's what I'm looking for. I think that's what most Americans are looking for.
SIMMONS: Well, I don't want them to bomb America either with a nuclear weapon or any of the allies, but that doesn't seem to always be the number one issue. Sometimes the number one issue is about oil in the Straits of Hormuz. Sometimes the number one issue is about whether or not there's going to be regime change. It's like they're making all this stuff up as we go. And I don't know if there's a regime change or not, but it seems like the same suits, different day.
PHILLIP: I mean, speaking of which, Trump today was talking about who's in charge in Iran. And it's almost like he can't decide whether he wants to characterize them as better or worse than the people that came before them. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, we got regime change, we do. We're dealing with a much different regime than before we're doing with different people. They're smarter. I think they're sharper and far less radical. You have to understand, we've been dealing with these people for 47 years. I'm standing here with a much more powerful Iran as of a month ago, not anymore. Right now, they are decapitated. But I'm standing here a month ago with a much more powerful Iran than it was at any point during 47 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: What is he saying here? I mean, are they sharper? Are they less radical? Are they harder to negotiate with? Are they stronger? What are they?
LYDIA MOYNIHAN, CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK POST: I mean, look, I think Trump's probably holding his cards close to the vest because there -- Scott suggested likely negotiations going on behind the scenes. So, it's hard to determine. I'm sure he's blessed during a fair bit there as well as he tries to figure out some kind of deal.
But I think most Americans aren't necessarily looking at his rhetoric. I think they're looking at the actions, and I would say the actions this weekend were truly astonishing.
[22:10:05]
The fact that we showed to the world we are able and willing to rescue an Air force man, two, who were stranded in Iran. I think the American people see that action and they are much less concerned about the rhetoric.
You know, the rhetoric, for instance, under Obama, you know, we have our NATO allies happy and yet we love (INAUDIBLE) message that went out on Easter was pretty aggressive.
So, I think Americans are much more concerned about the actions over this weekend and simply the rhetoric.
SINGH: I have to say that I think the actions that our military has taken have been phenomenal. I think they are tactical successes and victories. I think what you saw the president say that Iran's military has been decapitated, we've sunk their navy, these are all incredible things that our military, our U.S. military and the Israeli military has done. That does not mean it is a strategic outcome that is left on the ground in Iran. Because to Scott's point, if we do want to make sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon, we still have enriched uranium sitting in Iran that needs to be -- that either there needs to be some type of diplomatic off ramp, or someone's going to have to go in and get it. And the only way you're going to have to go in and get it is with boots on the ground.
And so I do think rhetoric matters, just going back to the original question, when the president says -- sends out an incendiary tweet on Easter Sunday that, I think, incite a lot of people all around this country of confusion. I think actions should meet words and words should meet actions. And our military is doing a great job of that, but the president's words don't match it.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, also objectives are important too.
JENNINGS: Couldn't option three go on the nuclear stuff be, look, it's buried? We've got satellite monitoring of this stuff 24/7. And, apparently, we can detect if anybody gets near it, and apparently we can zap people at will. And so part of the, at least the short to medium-term solution on the enriched uranium could be that it's buried and we can watch it.
SINGH: But that was the same position that we were in before this war started, which was after Operation Midnight Hammer. I mean, the same position that we are in right now watching that nuclear facility site --
JENNINGS: I'm not sure they agree with that. I think maybe --
SINGH: -- is, Operation Midnight Hammer, that site has not been hit well since that --
PHILLIP: I mean, to her point, since the Operation Midnight Hammer, they told us that they buried it, okay? So, they haven't actually --
BOOT: That was when Trump claimed he totally obliterated the nuclear program.
PHILLIP: Yes, he claimed they obliterated the nuclear program. They buried it then. We could have taken a posture of watch and see. We chose not to do that. And then on top of that, we haven't actually hit additional nuclear sites that are even deeper into Iran for important reasons, but we haven't done it. And so, no, I mean, I'm not sure anybody thinks that's a long-term solution to Iran not having a nuclear weapon. It's just a long-term surveillance that we would be -- we would basically be putting ourselves in a position of having to carry out.
BOOT: I mean, the problem is we've now gotten ourselves into a strategic cul-de-sac where there's not an obvious military way out because there's not an obvious military operation at acceptable cost to take out nearly a thousand pounds of highly enriched uranium from Iran, and there's not an obvious military operation to open up the Strait of Hormuz.
In both cases, I think the best option would be to make a deal with the Iranians. But, again, Trump has boxed himself into a corner because he said he wants to overthrow the regime. He said he wants unconditional surrender. And, by the way, the last two times he was negotiating with the Iranians last summer and at -- in February and March, he then in the middle of the negotiations, launched attacks on Iran, so they have no reason to take him seriously as a negotiator.
So, everything he's done has undermined the prospects of doing a deal with Iran. But there's nothing -- there's really no alternative at the end of the day to doing a deal with Iran, to deal with the nuclear material and the Strait of Hormuz.
PHILLIP: And the strong-arming isn't working, it seems, at least not right now. SIMMONS: The strong-arming is not working, as we can tell. What we do know is that they do have some capacity. We know that we've seen people obviously our ships have been taking on fire, right, helicopters, the downed air fighter pilots. So, we know that they still have some capacity.
PHILLIP: They (INAUDIBLE) taking fire every single day. I mean, they are under heavy fire.
SIMMONS: We know they have some capacity. We know that the regime is basically still in charge. We know that Iran is basically in charge of the chokehold and the Straits of Hormuz. It just doesn't seem like we are making any progress --
JENNINGS: You don't think destroying --
SIMMONS: -- other than destroying a bunch of targets that still have kept the regime in place.
JENNINGS: What regime? The people that were in charge are dead. There's now new people, and there's been credible reporting that they're having trouble even communicating with each other.
BOOT: It's the same regime.
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: They're very scrambled.
SINGH: Just different leaders but it's the same regime.
BOOT: It's the same regime. The president is the same, by the way.
JENNINGS: Well, you don't know. I mean, the person they say is in charge has never been seen in public. You've seen a cardboard cutout, but that's all we know.
SINGH: No, I don't --
JEENNINGS: And so that doesn't sound great to me if I were in their shoes.
SINGH: It might not sound great, but the IRGC and the way they're structured is so entrenched in the Iranian society that there's not -- a regime change hasn't happened. A leadership change has happened.
JENNINGS: They're in such great shape that we had pilots on the ground in Iran for two days and we sent hundreds of Special Forces and then rescued them.
[22:15:03]
And the IRGC and nobody in the civilian population could seem to find or help them capture our guys. They're not in great shape.
PHILLIP: But, Scott, you can't mix the two things. BOOT: (INAUDIBLE) Scott, the whole 20 percent of the world hostage.
PHILLIP: There's the military advantage that we have against Iran, which nobody's questioning, and then there's the question of whether the regime has lost its grip on the country.
JENNINGS: Two days, we were there, they couldn't find the guy.
PHILLIP: And there is absolutely no indication of that. And even Trump acknowledges that he doesn't really know. He can't really figure out who he's talking to or what their deal is. That's because they're still in charge. They're still in charge of their country.
A lot more to discuss on this though, as we go ahead. The president is shrugging off potential war crimes if there's no deal reached this week, and he's also admitting that he wants to get at Iran's oil at the end of the day.
Plus, we're about to hear from the Artemis astronauts live after their historic moon flyby. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: As the clock ticks toward President Trump's new deadline for Iran, and he doubles down on his vow to bomb its civilian infrastructure, tonight, he's shrugging off fresh questions about whether carrying out his threats could be considered potential war crimes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How would it not be a war crime to strike Iran's bridges and power plants?
TRUMP: Because they killed 45,000 people in the last month, more than that. I think it could be as much as 60. They kill protesters. They're animals.
REPORTER: If it seems like diplomatic talks are picking up, are you willing to hold off on attacking critical infrastructure?
TRUMP: Well, actually, I don't even what to talk about it.
REPORTER: Are you concerned that your threat to bomb power plants and bridges amount to war crimes?
TRUMP: Not at all. No. No, I'm not. I hope I don't have to do it.
REPORTER: Are there certain kinds of civilian targets though, I'm thinking --
TRUMP: I don't want to tell you that. I don't want to tell you that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Trump also offered some insight into what he really wants out of this war if a deal isn't reached.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I had my choice, what would I like to do? Take the oil, because it's there for the taking. There's not a thing they can do about it.
Unfortunately, the American people would like to see us come home. If it were up to me, I'd take the oil. I'd keep the oil. I would make plenty of money.
REPORTER: You said earlier today during the egg roll that you would like to take Iran's oil, but Americans want U.S. forces home.
TRUMP: Correct.
REPORTER: What's that tradeoff like?
TRUMP: If I had my choice, if I had my choice, yes, because I'm a businessman first.
To the winner belong the spoils, go the spoils. And I've said, why don't we use it to the victor, go the spoils.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: You know, Lydia, for many, many years, America's enemies have accused the United States of being no different morally from any of the other so-called villains on the world stage, Geneva Convention violations, war crimes, and also accused us of basically launching into wars in order to steal natural resources, like oil, and then there is Trump, and he just says it. How does this put America in a better position on the world stage?
MOYNIHAN: I mean, I don't think inherently destroying infrastructure can be constituted as a war crime and he's only destroyed one bridge. It seems like he's probably hesitant to go further, which is why the deadline gets pushed back. But, you know, it's interesting. There's been a lot of reporting on war crimes by the media, and almost all of them are only about whether the U.S. will commit a war crime, no focus on Iran and it's continued committing of war crimes, constantly trying to bomb the Middle East --
PHILLIP: Everybody understands that Iran is constantly engaging in human rights violations, war crimes --
JENNINGS: Where were the protesters?
PHILLIP: No, hold on. Are you guys really trying to equate the United States and Iran in terms of our conduct of war?
JENNINGS: I think you are. I mean, is it not --
PHILLIP: No. Actually -- no. What I'm asking I'm saying is that, actually --
JENNINGS: I mean, (INAUDIBLE) people all over this country protesting supposed human rights abuses in the Middle East but they're nowhere to be found for Iran.
PHILLIP: Historically -- the United States has historically had an upper hand morally and practically against our enemies, especially regimes like Iran that literally does not care. I'm not even sure that they care if Trump decides to bomb civilian infrastructure, because, to Trump's point, they killed 40,000 of their own citizens. But the United States should care. And to your question about whether it would constitute a war crime, I definitely think it is in question. Let me just play this. This is General Mark Milley, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MILLEY, THEN-JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: The deliberate targeting of the civilian power grid causing excessive collateral damage and unnecessary suffering on the civilian population is a war crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He was talking there about Russia's conduct in Ukraine. So, again, Trump is not -- he's not even just not taking it off the table. He's saying, we're going to bomb them into the stone ages. We're going to make sure they don't have a country anymore. He is suggesting that it's going to be a complete demolition of Iran's power grid, bridges infrastructure, he puts desalination plants on the table. The question I have is, how far is too far for an American president?
JENNINGS: Well, I mean, we've all read what he said. I guess I want to see what the specific targets are because some of these things obviously are military in nature. Military bases and military installations need power. And sometimes they need bridges too. So, I want to see exactly what he's talking about before I, you know, jump to conclusions here.
But I will say this, you know, I do think part of the noble effort here has been to try to get the Iranian people to retake their country.
[22:25:05]
And if you wind up in a situation where they come to believe that you've not taken care of them in the process here, where you've not protected them from bad outcomes could be counterproductive. Again, this is all depending on what the target packages are. I tend to think what they're most looking at is grids and bridges that have to do with whatever remaining military --
PHILLIP: So, he's lying when he says, we're going to blast Iran into oblivion? He's going to say, he says, blowing up and completely obliterating all of their electric-generating plants, oil wells, Kharg Island, possibly desalination plants. The United States will hit and obliterate their various power plants. He said earlier, he's chosen not to wipe out the oil infrastructure, but he threatens that if they interfere with the Strait of Hormuz, which they did, he'll reconsider that decision.
SINGH: Some of those plants and some of those bridges are dual use, meaning that they can be used by the military or civilians. The issue that the United States always takes into account when they make a target list or they assess whether they should strike is the damage that it could do to civilians and the excessive civilian casualties that could result, i.e., hospitals depend on these power plants, your EKG, you know, machines that are helping people stay alive in a hospital. So, these are the types of conversations that the Pentagon is probably having.
The problem with saying you're going to obliterate every single power plant and every single bridge that is inevitably going to hurt and kill innocent people. And that's why we're having that discussion about war crimes because that is something that is we are a party to under the Geneva Convention.
BOOT: And it's really striking to me that remember this war began five weeks ago with Trump calling on the Iranian people to rise up and --
PHILLIP: All right. Max, I'm going to, I'm sorry, interrupt you.
BOOT: Go ahead.
PHILLIP: We're going to listen in actually as the Artemis II astronauts are speaking.
TRUMP: Listen, well thank you very much, Jared, and you are doing a fantastic job. And hello, very special hello to Artemis II. Today, you've made history and made all America really proud, incredibly proud. We have a lot of things to be proud of lately, but there's nothing like what you're doing, circling around the moon for the first time in more than a half a century and breaking the all time record for the farthest distance from Planet Earth. Humans have really never seen anything quite like what you're doing in a manned spacecraft. It's really special.
I want to personally salute and congratulate Commander Reid Wiseman, Pilot Victor Glover, Mission Specialist Christina Koch and Jeremy Hansen. And I also want to thank the entire amazing team at NASA, headed by Jared, who's a very special guy, by the way. And you all made this day possible and you've really inspired the entire world, really. Everybody's watching. They find it incredible. I just watch you go to the back of the moon. And people haven't been there in a long time, we can say. But it's going to be more and more prevalent because we're going to be doing a lot of traveling, and then you're going to ultimately do the whole big trip to Mars and that's going to be very exciting.
So, you look and we had no astronaut has been to the moon since the days of Apollo program. The Apollo program was also very special, but that was 50 years ago. At long last, America is back, and America is back in many ways stronger than ever before. We're the hottest country anywhere in the world. The Artemis crew flew in the most powerful rocket NASA has ever made, ever launched, traveled over a quarter of a million miles, broke the distance record set by the legendary Apollo 13. And America is a frontier nation and the four brave astronauts of Artemis II are a modern day -- you really are modern day pioneers, all of you. And one of them happens to be a neighbor. You know who that is, right? You have a special person over there, a neighbor. And we like our neighbor.
Your mission paves the way for America's return to the lunar surface very soon. We're going all out. We're doing everything we can, and it's set it up by Jared. We'll plant our flag once again, and this time we won't just leave footprints. We'll establish a permanent presence on the moon. And we'll push on to Mars. That'll be very exciting. I'm waiting for that so much. I'd love to be here, but maybe we won't quite make it in terms of timing, but we will be up in the moon and that's going to happen soon.
So, America will be second to none in space and everything else that we're doing, and we will continue to lead the whole thing into the stars, this incredible journey into the stars. So, I just wanted an honor to speak to you and I wanted to congratulate each and every one of you. And tell me what is the most unforgettable part of this really historic day? The whole world is watching and listening.
[22:30:02]
Please tell me.
REID WISEMAN, NASA ASTRONAUT: President, this call is certainly special to all of us and we really have a lot of faith in our administrator Jared Isaacman who is with you. We appreciate his leadership in NASA and in the international community. We are doing great things and we are proud to be a part of it.
I have to tell you, as we came around the near side of the moon, seeing all the sights that we've seen from Earth for all of our lives, but we're seeing them from a different perspective and then we started to get a glimpse of the (mic off). And we saw sites, Orientale sites that no human has ever seen before, not even in Apollo. And that was amazing for us.
And then the surprise of the day, we just came out of an eclipse where the sun (mic off), moon and the entire dark moon about that big right out the window that we were watching. We could see the corona of the sun and then we could see the planet train line up (mic off) at Mars and all of us commented how excited we are to watch this nation and this planet become a two-planet species.
TRUMP (on the phone): That is fantastic. You know, I had a decision to make in my first term, and the decision is, what are we going to do at NASA? Are going to have it be revived, or are we going to close it down? And I had very little hesitation, and it's really great to have somebody like Jared involved, because he really makes it much easier for me. But it was not even a question in my own mind. We just -- we've spent what we had to do. And then, of course, we have Space Force. And Space Force is very much
related to what you're doing. And that was my baby. That was a very important one. And it's turning out -- it'll turn out to be truly one of the most important, I believe, decisions I've ever made. So we're very proud of Space Force, and we're very proud of all of you. Does anybody else have anything to say? A lot of people listening.
CHRISTINA KOCH, NASA ASTRONAUT: Mr. President (mic off) to be here with you speaking about our incredible day today. I think one of the biggest highlights was coming back from the far side of the moon and having the first glimpses of planet Earth again after being out of communication for about 45 minutes. It really just reminds you what a special place we have and how important it is for our nation to (mic off) lead and not follow in exploring deep space.
TRUMP (on the phone): I'd like to ask what was your feeling when you had no communication, zero communication, all of a sudden it was cut off by obviously your very special location. What was your feeling when you had no communication? A little bit different, perhaps.
VICTOR GLOVER, NASA ASTRONAUT: Yes, Mr. President, it was cool. I said a little prayer, but then I had to keep rolling. I was actually recording scientific observations of the far side of the moon. You know, that is actually the time when we were the farther and the closest to the moon. And so we were really able to make some of our most detailed observations of the far side of the moon up close. And so, we were busy up here working really hard. And I must say it was actually quite nice.
TRUMP (on the phone): Did you see a difference, a big difference between the far side of the moon and the near side of the moon? Was there a difference in feel or difference in look? What did you see?
JEREMY HANSEN, CANADIAN SPACE AGENCY MISSION SPECIALIST: Well, Mr. President, certainly did and our site really set us up well to understand what they thought we might see. And the gravitational pull of the Earth has had a profound effect on the near side of the moon, changing all those dark mares, those dark patches of the moon you see from Earth. It's very different on the far side. While you see some small patches of those mare in deep craters, it's very much absent on that side, so that's really neat.
And while I have the microphone, Sir, I just want to thank you on behalf of Canada. The space leadership you spoke of from America truly is extraordinary. I've said this many times before. A nation that leads like that and creates and sets big goals for humanity that brings other countries along with it is truly incredible.
And I know that's a very intentional, not a necessary decision, intentional decision to lead by example and to allow other countries like Canada to share our gifts and help you achieve these mutually beneficial goals like establishing a presence on the moon and eventually going to Mars. And Canadians are so proud to be a part of this program.
TRUMP (on the phone): Well, I have to say I spoke to a very special person, Wayne Gretzky, who I think you know, the great one. And I spoke to your Prime Minister and many other friends I have in Canada.
[22:35:02]
They are so proud of you and you have lot of courage. I'm not sure if they'd want to do that. I'm not even sure if the great one would want to do that, to be honest with you. But you have a lot of courage doing what you're doing, a lot of bravery and a lot of a lot of genius. But they're very, very proud of you.
JARED ISAACMAN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: And Integrity, any other insights you want to share with the President the United States on your journey? Well, Mr. President, on behalf of NASA, we are incredibly grateful for your time this evening. I know the crew that has been on this absolutely historic journey has appreciated your words and been grateful to share their experiences.
WISEMAN: Administrator Isaacman, just get a quick com check, make sure you guys are still on the line and we didn't have a handover.
TRUMP: I am. Yes, I am.
(LAUGHTER)
ISAACMAN: And we're all still with you, Integrity, and back over to you, Mr. President.
TRUMP (on the phone): Yes, I think we might have gotten cut off. It is a long distance. It's a long way. The reception has been great. There's a little bit of about a nine-second delay, but no, just had a statement for, I don't know what you heard, but I was just saying they're very proud of your brilliant person from Canada on the ship.
And Wayne Gretzky is a great friend of mine and he's very proud of him. And the prime minister I spoke to, they're very, very honored that you have a courageous person from Canada. You have a lot of courageous people from Canada. So, it was very nice. I'm not sure if you heard me say that, but it was very nice.
WISEMAN: Yes, Mr. President, we heard that and we do love our Jeremy Hansen. We love all our Canadian astronauts. Jenny Givens, Josh Kutryk, they're just great people and they're such a welcome addition to our Corps.
TRUMP (on the phone): Great. Well, I really look forward to -- when we can -- I look forward to seeing you in the Oval Office. I'll ask Jared to bring you over and I'll ask for your autograph because I don't really ask for autographs much, but you deserve that. You really are something. Everybody's talking about this. And I look forward to having you in the Oval Office at the White House, and we will celebrate your incredible achievements and triumphs.
This is big. This is really big stuff. The whole world is talking about it. And if you have the time, I will certainly find the time. I've been pretty busy also, as you know, but I will absolutely find the time and we'll get together. And I'm going to be giving you a big salute on behalf of the American people and beyond that. GLOVER: Thank you for that, Mr. President, and when you want us we
will be there. And thank you for your leadership. Thank you to Jared for his leadership. Really thank you for taking the time out today to visit NASA. It's really special for us but it's really special for the team on the ground.
A whole team of people all around the world pulled this off and we just want to say thank you to all of you for this. It is the thrill and honor of a lifetime to have been on this journey. Today. was amazing, but this three-year journey has been amazing, and it was made people -- made possible by the American people and the Canadian people. And we're so grateful to you all. Thank you very much.
TRUMP (on the phone): Well, thank you very much. And Jared, congratulations. We'll see you soon. And I know that you have Mars very much in your mind, so we'll start thinking about that pretty soon, I think. And thank you. Congratulations to everybody. I'll see you at the Oval Office.
ISAACMAN: Thank you for your time, Mr. President. It's been an honor.
TRUMP (on the phone): Thank you very much. Bye.
ISAACMAN: Bye.
PHILLIP: All right, that was President Trump calling the Artemis II astronauts after a historic day in space. The crew went further than any into space than -- has ever been and have observed parts of the moon that no one has ever set eyes on. And they shared a little bit of what they saw with the world.
They even lost communication with mission control for about 40, 45 minutes during their lunar flyby. And today was the sixth day on that 10-day mission. They're now on their way back to Earth. So, let's bring in Miles O'Brien to discuss what we just heard there.
[22:40:01]
And Miles, I want to start actually with that period of time when they were on the far side of the moon, when they actually hit that historic mark. And we heard Astronaut Victor Glover say that he said a little prayer because they lost connectivity for that period of time, but then they had a lot of work to do. I mean, first of all, mean, do you have a sense of psychologically what it might be like to lose connection with Earth when you're that deep into space?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AEROSPACE ANALYST: I'm going to let you in on a little secret, Abby. I think they were quite happy about it because, you know, the whole time that they are up and in that capsule on their way to the moon, you know, Houston is bugging them to death. They -- do this, do that, you know, activate this com check the toilet one more time. You know, we're trying to fix the temperature on and on and on it goes.
And I bet they enjoyed that 45 minutes immensely. Taking aside the fact that they had, you know, in a record setting place and were as remote as any human beings ever had been from the rest of us, which is kind of profound on its own right. But just, I think the silence was probably appreciated.
PHILLIP: Yes, he did say it was kind of nice. The whole experience is a little bit like Big Brother. The whole world is watching everything that they do while they're up there in space. The other part of the conversation with President Trump that is really meaningful is you see there on the screen right above their heads, a U.S. and a Canadian flag, and we have a Canadian astronaut, Jeremy Hansen, on this journey with them.
That coordination and what Jeremy Hansen had to say about American leadership in space was really heartfelt. Tell us more about how important it has been to have America back in the space game.
O'BRIEN: Well, a couple of words on the Canadian partnership which I find really interesting. Canada has always kind of punched above its weight when it comes to space. Over the years they've had, I think, 14 astronauts, but each of them has kind of -- had a distinct and above their high-profile role, let's put it this way. Canada also developed the robot arm for the space shuttle and the International Space Station.
So, the partnership has been very vital and very real. Now, the one thing it's worth pointing out here, President Trump is taking a lot of credit for NASA and this particular mission. It's worth pointing out that the Trump White House tried to cut the NASA budget by 25 percent and cut NASA science by 50 percent. It was Congress that put that money back in, plus an additional $10 billion, which makes everything you're seeing here possible.
So, we should be clear about where credit goes here. The fact that NASA is doing well and making plans to continue on with Artemis and beyond and build an encampment on the moon is not because of funding that was requested by the White House.
PHILLIP: Yes, an important point there. I also think it's a year of lot of not so nice things he said about Canada. It was a rare time that we've heard him really praise our neighbors to the north. And for good reason, as you point out. So Miles, tell us, are we going to Mars? The President talked a lot about that when he was talking with the astronauts. How far away are we from that?
O'BRIEN: We're a long way from Mars, Abby. Let's get to the moon first. And you know, this is one flyby. In order to get a real encampment on the moon, we've got to -- there's a lot of work to be done. There is no lander. We have no craft that can take astronauts from lunar orbit down to the surface.
The SpaceX and Blue Origin are working on that, but there's still work to be done there. We have no spacesuit for a human being to survive as they walk on the surface of the planet. You know, the official word from NASA is that they're going to try landing in 2028. Awful lot of work needs to be done between now and then.
Now, let's talk about Mars. You've got exposure to radiation over the course of an eight-month voyage. We have a challenge of getting anything bigger than a small SUV onto the surface of Mars, much less an entire encampment and a rocket to bring you back. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be done before Mars becomes a reality. And the idea here on the moon is this is a good place to test out some ideas, systems, and it's only three or four days away as opposed to eight months.
So, I think focusing on building this encampment on the moon and being consistent about it and not changing the destination every four years is a good idea because otherwise you really don't get anywhere.
[22:45:00]
PHILLIP: Yes, that's such an important point. Miles O'Brien, thank you very much for that. Joining me also now is Clayton Anderson. He's a former NASA astronaut. He spent 167 days living and working in space on the International Space Station. Thank you for being here, Clayton. When you watch these astronauts on this journey, it's much shorter than the one that you were on. But what do you think is the experience of having that particular piece of human history in their pocket in this moment?
CLAYTON ANDERSON, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: I think it's great for them. I'm very envious. I would love to be with them in that tiny little capsule, being so close to the moon. But it's very important, and I agree with what Miles said that we got to be the best. We got to be the leaders in space exploration. And so, I love the fact that we finally have committed after 54 years to begin this journey again. It's going to take a lot of work, just like Miles said. But this is the way to go and I think it's the right first step.
PHILLIP: And in your view, Clayton, does President Trump deserve credit for -- he said today that he was given a choice to shut NASA down or keep it going. Do you think he deserves any credit for keeping it going?
ANDERSON: I think the entire administration deserves credit. All the people that are involved picking Mr. Isaacman. You know, the politics of it to me is kind of fluff. I think that the key thing is that we're doing it and that takes the efforts of a lot of different people. It takes appropriate budget money as we all know. We hope that the budget money will continue to be there because it will be required for us to get to Artemis III and then Artemis IV.
So, you know, everybody's taking credit. I'm taking credit by being on your show and saying, hey, I was an astronaut for a while. You know, I lived on the space station. Give me some credit, you know? So, it's kind of a -- it's a humanitarian success.
PHILLIP: A hundred and sixty-seven days in space, you will get all the credit, my friend. Thank you for that. Thank you for your service. Clayton Anderson, thank you very much for being with us.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
PHILLIP: And next for us, more on our breaking news as Iran faces Donald Trump's deadline. The President and his Defense secretary are both now invoking religion when we're talking about this war. And now, Trump is accused of mocking Islam. We'll discuss that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:52:23]
PHILLIP: President Trump is under fire for some of his Truth Social posts. On Easter Sunday, he called Tuesday Power Plant and Bridge Day telling Iran to quote, "Open the (EXPLICIT) strait, you crazy bastards or you'll be living in hell. Just watch, praise be to Allah." And earlier, he warned that hell will reign down on Iran if they don't make a deal or open the Strait of Hormuz. He ended that message with, "Glory be to God." He was asked about that post today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: You said glory be to God in this conflict. Do you believe that God supports the United States actions in this?
TRUMP: I do it because God is good -- because God is good and God wants to see people taken care of. God doesn't like what's happening. I don't like what's happening. Everyone says I enjoy it. I don't enjoy this. I don't enjoy it. These two guys don't enjoy it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's often hard to tell, Max, whether Trump is trolling or whether he means it or what have you. I mean, he seemed to indicate that he meant the glory be to God part of it. But it's kind of like what we were talking about earlier. If he's threatening to bomb civilian infrastructure while all at the same time invoking God repeatedly, he has and Hegseth has, what kind of message does that send?
BOOT: I mean, I think it sends a scary message. Again, this war that began with talk about liberating Iran, he's now talking about bombing Iran at the Stone Age and basically mocking the religion of Iranians and trying to, he and Hegseth are in some ways turning this into a holy war where they're claiming that they're fighting on behalf of God, which no one has figured out than the Pope himself has rebuked the way they've been trying to weaponize religion to justify the conflict.
I mean, you can -- I guess the best case scenario for this or the best argument you can make for it is it kind of harkens back to Richard Nixon's Madman Theory during the Vietnam War, where he wanted to make the North Vietnamese think he was so crazy, he was capable of anything, so they had to make peace. And clearly, there's an element here of manipulation on the part of Trump where he's acting crazy because he wants to convince the Iranians to make a deal.
But I don't think it's going to work. And frankly, it's just going to convince the Iranians -- so far, I think it's convincing the Iranians they can't deal with him, that he's irrational, that he's out to destroy them. And so, they can't afford compromise. So, I think the impact is going to be the opposite of what he intends.
PHILLIP: Lydia?
MOYNIHAN: I mean, I don't buy that the Iranians aren't willing to make a deal with him because they think he's irrational. I think the Iranians are mostly irrational ones here.
[22:55:00]
I think, look, mean Victor Neva (ph), the astronaut said, there's no atheists in a rocket ship. And of course, sort of reference to the famous quote, "There's no atheists in a foxhole." And think it's sort of natural in a time of war to think about a higher being. And you know, we saw an incredible story this weekend with a pilot who was taken down on Good Friday. We thought he might have been killed and he was miraculously rescued on Easter. I think that's a really powerful allegory. And I think it's okay to celebrate that. And --
SINGH: The President is using God as a way to justify his war, which I think goes against what you're saying.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: I don't think he's justifying it.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: I was asked about it. I'm not going to comment on every single thing that Trump says.
SINGH: I think that tweet is pretty indefensible. That's why you can't defend it.
MOYNIHAN: I'm not sure what was happening with that tweet, but --
JENNINGS: American presidents and American military leaders not invoked God in numerous communications for 250 years in this country, beginning with George Washington all the way to right now? I mean, it's pretty common language for commander in chief of military --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGH: I think same God approves of this war, summarizing --
JENNINGS: I mean, I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
SINGH: -- is not --
MOYNIHAN: What the Bible teaches.
JENNINGS: Our leaders have repeatedly prayed to God for success in battle, have repeatedly prayed to God --
SINGH: Yes, that's different. JENNINGS: -- to guide American troops into battle.
SINGH: I'm not-- I think that's great.
JENNINGS: And so, I just don't think it's really all that strange to hear a President the United States invoking God when dealing with, you know, military issues.
SIMMONS: But what we also do is we pray to God that we are going to be on the right side. We pray to God that we're going to be on his side, on God's side. We don't pray to God to celebrate violence. Now, we commit violence to stop the Holocaust, or we commit violence to stop slavery, but we don't celebrate the violence.
We celebrate the victory that it is that we're going after. And that's the thing that feels sort of obscene about what Hegseth is up to which is sort of invoking God's name in this celebration of raining violence down on people and this opportunity that they're trying to take to go in and take out bridges and power plants and other places that may be actually more helpful to people.
It is obvious that America can be a great country. Right now, we just watch what happens when people admire us because we can do these great feats. The question on the table is can America be a good country? And that's the question, I'm sure, I don't think people really know the answer to right now.
PHILLIP: There's also, I mean, the mixing of the government and religion has accelerated dramatically under this administration. This is just a sampling of some of the posts from the U.S. government agencies over the weekend about Easter, the Department of War, of all places, reposting explicitly Christian messaging, the Department of Labor, as well, Homeland Security.
I mean, there are many Christians in America, but all America is not Christian and this is a country where you're allowed to not be anything at all. But there's been this mixing of religion throughout, and especially by Pete Hegseth.
SINGH: It is unusual to see such a mixing when there is -- part of our country is founded on the separation of the two entities. I know a lot of people in the military that pray before they go out for an operation or pray for the safety of their loved one. That is completely fine. And I don't think anyone should, you know, disparage that.
I think the messaging that you're seeing from the President and basically saying, well, God has okayed this war. That is not in the teachings or at least what I learned in Sunday school of the Bible. And I think when the Pope is criticizing the messages of this administration, and I was always taught the Pope was the vessel towards God, I think you're losing the narrative.
PHILLIP: Scott?
JENNINGS: So, I'm hearing you and I'm hearing you question -- it sounds to me like you're questioning whether we're on the moral or righteous side of this conflict against these Iranian butchers.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: How we do it is the question, not just what we do, Scott.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: -- how we prosecute the wars that we're in (inaudible) very important. And it's not just the important because of--
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: Hold on. It's not just important --
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: -- these are what we do with them because we don't care necessarily about what happens in the middle of conflict with the other with the opponent. The question is also what's good for us, what's good for our troops. And if we commit war crimes and if we go after people in unsavoury ways, we're going to set ourselves up and our troops up to be treated the same way.
JENNINGS: Look, the bottom line of this conflict is this is a country that for 47 years has been run by religious fanatics that are desperate to bring about the end of the world with a nuclear weapon. Their principal mantras are death to America and death to Israel. And he is trying to prevent that.
I'm not really having trouble saying the right and the wrong here or the moral versus the immoral. I believe in the righteousness of this mission. I think most Americans do. And I think it's pretty easy to tell the good guy from the bad guys here but I'm hearing a lot of people in the air saying I don't really know.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, I guess the question is also, you just, as you mentioned, this is a war against religious fanatics. [23:00:00]
I think the question is, is it really wise for this administration to basically put another religion in opposition to the religious fanatics that we're fighting. This is not a religious war. It's a -- it's a war against you know, butchers and authoritarians.
(CROSSTALK)
MOYNIHAN: I mean, it's an Islamic regime.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It's not a war of one faith. But it's not a war of one faith against another. It's not that. We know that, right?
MOYNIHAN: No, it's not. But I think it's fair to say that we are a Christian nation based on Christian ideals. And you mentioned from the beginning --
BOOT: We're not.
MOYNIHAN: -- there's George Washington praying at Valley Forge. That's one of
SIMMONS: We're a nation that is majority Christian but we're not a Christian nation.
MOYNIHAN: It's a federal secular government and it's okay to celebrate our heritage.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, we are up against the top of the hour, guys. Everyone, thank you. Thank you so much for being here and thanks for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" takes it right now.
