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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump and Allies Lecture Pope on Theology, Doctrine, War; Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) Praises MAGA Republicans Speaking Out Against Trump. Trump Could Be Losing Control of MAGA; Xi Denies Sending Weapons to Iran. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 15, 2026 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, a come to Jesus moment in American politics as Republicans lecture the pope.
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I think it's very, very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): If you wade into political waters, I think you should expect some political response.
PHILLIP: While the microscope turns to MAGA's religion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, it's the opposite of Christianity.
PHILLIP: Plus, Donald Trump is reportedly sending more truths to the Middle East despite declaring victory.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I view it as very close to over.
PHILLIP: Also, as some reject the buyer's remorse voters --
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: (BLEEP) you and your buyer's remorse. No one cares what you have to say anymore. We told you so.
PHILLIP: -- others open their arms.
REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I think that we should give them credit for that.
PHILLIP: And the veep's in deep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Killing children.
VANCE: Excuse me, sir.
PHILLIP: From abroad to America, a rocky run for J.D. Vance.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Val Demings, Caroline Downey, David Hogg, Margaret Donovan and Ana Navarro.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Suddenly Republicans don't want religion in politics. President Trump's war of words with the pope is again escalating, but this time it's his allies that are doing the talking. For days, President Trump has criticized the pope for speaking out against the Iran war, which has received bipartisan backlash. And then, of course, he added fuel to the fire when he posted a picture depicting himself as Jesus. He posted another picture today, but this time he is alongside A.I. Jesus.
The pope continues to advocate for peace, even doing so again tonight, while Republican officials are lecturing him on all things theology and doctrine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: Now, we can of course, have disagreements about whether this or that conflict is just, but I think that it's important in the same way that it's important for the vice president of the United States to be careful when I talk about matters of public policy, I think it's very, very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
Well, you've got to make sure it's anchored in the truth.
REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): The pope needs to keep his business into leading his flock, so to speak, leading the church and probably stay out of the political arena. He doesn't need to be getting involved in the political arena. Go lead your church.
I didn't elect the pope to be president.
JOHNSON: A pontiff or any religious leader can say anything they want. But, obviously, if you wade into political waters, I think you should expect some political response. And I think the pope's received some of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's not clear when a life and death war became just politics, but here we are in this moment for the church and state and war.
I mean, since when do popes -- are popes told they can't talk about war, they can't talk about peace, they can't talk about people who are dying and people who are living all around the world?
FMR. REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL): Since the beginning of the year of our Lord, popes have talked about peace, whether they were in war times, we were in war times, or peace times. Popes talk about peace. This Christmas, I will get dozens, if not more, of cards that say peace on Earth, goodwill towards men.
I'm not really sure what is going on in this country, but we have a lot going on. And to say the pope needs to be careful when he's discussing theology just makes no sense to me. It really doesn't. The pope is doing what popes do.
And, you know, the president wants a Nobel Prize, he talks about wars that he stopped around the world. Isn't that about peace? So, I'm not sure what we're doing here.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Remember, he doesn't need the Nobel Peace Prize. He already got that prize from FIFA.
CAROLINE DOWNEY, COLUMNIST, NATIONAL REVIEW: As a practicing Catholic, I know that the Vatican doesn't operate in our political paradigm. It's in the divine spiritual realm. So, when the pope sounds like the U.N. spokesperson saying, no confrontation, no conflict, only peacekeeping, only diplomacy, that is totally normal.
However, we learned this lesson with Pope Francis, who waded into politics probably more than any other pope before him, at least in terms of our modern politics. You do have to care about precision and exactitude as the successor to Peter, as someone who is informing the opinions and so many lay Catholics.
So, when you say, as the pope, and I say this as a practicing Catholic, that God does not hear the prayers of those who wage war, that is a bit precarious and does risk confusing practicing Catholics, because does that mean the war to fight Hitler in World War II, was that unjustified? The war against the Soviet Union, was that unjustified? I'm just saying that to say that he should be a little bit more precise, that's not like this --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hold on. Before you jump in, Ana, there is actual clarity from the Catholic Church on this, to your point. And the Bishop James Massa, the doctrine committee chair, so this is straight from the Catholic Church, says, a constant tenet of that thousand-year tradition is a nation can only legitimately take up the sword in self- defense once all peace efforts have failed. That is to be a just war. It must be a war of defense against another who actively wages war, which is what the Holy Father actually said, quote, he does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war.
So, it continues, when Pope Leo speaks as supreme pastor of the universal church, he's not merely offering opinions on theology, he is preaching the gospel and exercising his ministry as the Vicar of Christ.
So, he's basically saying in fewer words, the pope is teaching the gospel. He is speaking literally what the just war theory is. And I guess my question to you is, do you think that J.D. Vance knows more about Catholic theology than the pope? DOWNEY: Well, like I hear what you're saying about just war theory. That was created by St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine, and what you're saying is that it has to be proportionate to the actual --
PHILLIP: I'm not saying it, just to be clear.
DOWNEY: No, that --
PHILLIP: The Catholic Church is saying it.
DOWNEY: But that is what just war theory is. But it's also up to lay Catholics, according to the Vatican II Council, second Vatican Council, to decide what that means for temporal matters. Just because the pope makes some sort of dictate on political issues, that's not a religious proclamation.
NAVARRO: Okay. I too am a Catholic, not a very flawed one, granted when I go to church, it should burst into flames, but here's what I know. In my lifetime, I've known no pope that has more political involvement than John Paul II. He was part of a triumvirate with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan in beating communism. He did things like show up in Cuba. He did things like show up in Nicaragua and confront the Sandinistas to their face.
So, popes have always been political. It comes with a job. I do think that the job of U.S. presidents and the job of popes are two completely different things, and each of them is speaking to their constituents.
I think it's ridiculous that we're having like a rational conversation and debate here about theology because the insane, decrepit, senile old man who's in the White House is posting pictures of himself, posting like Jesus, and attacking the pope. This is -- you know, and I think it's rather rich and ridiculous and ironic for J.D. Vance, who is the vice president to the president, who is the least careful with words in my lifetime in this country, the man who celebrates death of Rob Reiner and Bob Mueller, the man who cusses Easter Sunday.
For now, J.D. Vance wants people to be careful with their words or maybe he should tell the guy he works for.
PHILLIP: She has a point about that. Why -- first of all, why criticize the pope and say, you better be careful with your discussion of theology and your use of words when he's doesn't care whether or not his own boss is careful with his words?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I heard the vice president there. I actually think he had it backwards. I think that the pope should be talking about theology. I respect the pope's role in running the Catholic Church and I also respect Donald Trump and J.D. Vance's role in American politics. That's their realm in which to be speaking their mind. And so I thought he had it backwards.
It's interesting that you referenced Pope John Paul II and President Reagan. I was thinking about this evening. There's a tremendous opportunity here for this pope. If he would look at it this way, we're in the middle of a ceasefire. This blockade is working. There are no bombs falling. There's diplomacy going on right now. And there is a real chance, because of what Trump has done and the situation we find ourselves in, for the world to bring pressure, economic pressure, and diplomatic pressure, just like what was done in the 80s, to bear against this terrorist regime, just the way it was brought to bear against the Soviets in the 1980s.
And so I get the feeling sometimes the pope might be feeling a little adversarial, at least in some of his comments toward President Trump. I don't know that personally. It's my sense of it. But in this moment where you have there -- there's no bombs falling right now. There's a blockade. There's some restraint going on, and there's talks going on.
[22:10:00]
This, to me, is a moment where you could have a partnership for peace in a way that brings this terrorist regime that, by the way, has been at war with the west for nearly 50 years, to its knees. And I think just the way that brought the Soviets to their knees, it could happen right here.
NAVARRO: Don't you think that opportunity goes both ways? In other words, it's also an opportunity for the president of the United States to cultivate an alliance with the leader of the Catholic Church and other foreign leaders, frankly, because what he's done by taking on the pope is not just antagonize Catholics, he's antagonized people like his ally, Meloni, the prime minister of Italy, where the Vatican is.
I mean, you know, the Reagan, John Paul II, Margaret Thatcher thing was years of cultivation of relationships, not 4:00 in the morning tweets, Scott. It's irrational what he's doing, and you know it.
JENNINGS: Well, it's not irrational to stand up to the Iranians.
NAVARRO: It's irrational to be posting it. It's irrational to be posting picture of himself --
(CROSSTALKS)
DAVID HOGG, PRESIDENT, LEADERS WE DESERVE: Is it rational to threaten a genocide of 90 million people? Is that rational, Scott, to threaten a genocide of 90 million people on happen Easter Sunday?
JENNINGS: It didn't happen.
HOGG: What did he meant by that?
PHILLIP: Well, Scott, you know what he's referring to.
JENNINGS: I do.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Let me just reiterate to the audience. The president said in a message that an entire civilization may die tonight -- HOGG: On Easter Sunday.
PHILLIP: -- on -- he said that. So, a lot of people read that as him threatening to wipe out an entire civilization.
So, the pope -- it does seem like the pope would actually be rational to respond to that and to say -- hold on -- and to say, hey, we're, we shouldn't be in the business of war.
And I think you're right that I'm sure the pope is happy that there is a ceasefire, but he was responding to Trump waging a war. Does he not have a right to respond to that part of it too?
JENNINGS: Well, he has a right to say whatever he wants, but I would just say we're waging war against people who've been waging war against us for nearly 50 years. And, look, the reality is, and the moment that we're in is special, because we've got this regime on its knees economically, which has China, that's a problem for them as well. We've got a moment here where we can change something and change a situation that's been bad for tens of millions of people for going on five decades now.
And I just -- my hope is -- look, by the way, a lot of politicians in America disagree with the pope. Do you guys agree with the pope about abortion and gay marriage?
DEMINGS: Well, let me say this --
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: And that's okay. It happens all the time.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second.
DEMINGS: But we all had agreed with the pope on peace.
PHILLIP: Scott, a lot of people -- not everybody's a Catholic. A lot of people disagree with the popoe.
JENNINGS: Donald Trump's not a Catholic.
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. A lot of people disagree with the --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Hang on just a second, before we go down that road, because we also know that Donald Trump supported abortion before he opposed it. But also --
JENNINGS: He's been the most pro-life president we've ever had.
PHILLIP: The response when you disagree with the pope is very different from what Donald Trump did. What Trump said was the pope is weak on crime. The pope --
DEMINGS: That part. PHILLIP: He's insulting the man rather than just saying --
(CROSSTALKS)
DOWNEY: You don't measure the pope by those political metrics. I agrees with you on that.
DEMINGS: One of the most interesting.
DOWNEY: However --
PHILLIP: Hold on, Caroline, I'm not understanding it. I mean, I'm just saying, Trump's response to his disagreement is not what anybody else's response is. Rather than just saying, we disagree. The pope is a -- you know, he's a figure of the church, I respect his opinion, we disagree to disagree. He insulted the pope. He attacked him repeatedly on social media. That is not what anybody else, frankly --
DOWNEY: I agree with you that there was antagonism, but what I'm trying to also say is that they both fueled the fire. And if you look at what --
PHILLIP: No. Excuse me? In what --
DOWNEY: To say that any war is unjustified, Abby, do you really believe in that?
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Just a second. Let me just play this because you're arguing --
DOWNEY: What prompted this war was the execution of Iranians in the streets.
PHILLIP: Caroline, hang on a second. You are Catholic. You're arguing with me as if I am the arbiter of Catholic doctrine. I am not. But these are the clergy. Let me just play. This is from 60 Minutes on Sunday sitting with three influential Catholic bishops this weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Iran has been the chief exporter of terror. Is there no scenario in which preventing that can be a just war?
CARDINAL ROBERT MCELROY, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: It's an abominable regime and it should be removed. But this is a war of choice that we went to.
[22:15:00]
And I think it's embedded in a wider moment in the United States that's worrying, which is this. We're seeing before us the possibility of war after war after war.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DOWNEY: Catholic leaders are very diverse. There's multiple orders in the Catholic Church.
PHILLIP: All I'm saying is that it is totally normal and fine in any society to disagree with the doctrines of a church, it doesn't matter if you're Catholic or not. But how Trump has disagreed, how Trump has made it personal, made it -- you know, made it made it specific to this pope is very different from what people do.
Let me give him the last word because he hasn't said much in this segment.
HOGG: No, I just, I think that what we're seeing is a breakdown. The war that people feel like is being waged on them here in America more than anything is the fact that young people in particular were told by their president that he was not going to drag us into more forever wars, and he was going to lower prices and he was going to release the Epstein files. We have seen him go back on every single one of those promises.
You know, Caroline, you and I disagree on a lot of stuff, but the fact of the matter is you probably grew up -- were born around the same time as 9/11 as I was. Our entire lives, most of our lives, our country has been at wars in the Middle East that have gotten us nowhere but more in debt. And young Americans continue to feel left behind more and more because we were driving into a war that we didn't need to have to be in, in the first place, and anybody with an elementary school understanding of foreign policy could have told you the Strait of Hormuz was going to get shut down, and that is exactly what happened.
JENNINGS: And who controls it right now? Who controls the strait?
HOGG: How higher -- why are gas prices so high then?
JENNINGS: Why were they high during Biden's administration? Did you like that?
HOGG: It wasn't because of a geopolitical fumble like this.
JENNINGS: Here's the deal. Who controls strait? You're using last week's talking points, David. We control the strait. We are in charge of this conflict right now.
HOGG: The difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is he helped him end forever wars and it wasn't popular, but he did it.
JENNINGS: Yes, it went great.
HOGG: Guess what? We just got into another one, and it's going to hell a lot worse.
JENNINGS: What do you mean? Are in control of the strait, are we not? Iran is at its -- on its knees right now. They're losing hundreds of millions of dollars a day, and they will not have --
HOGG: You're telling me they'll be democratized tomorrow, this country that is going --
JENNINGS: No. That is literally --
DOWNEY: We don't need it to be democratized. We just need it to be something we can deal with.
HOGG: Scott --
JENNINGS: They don't need a nuclear weapon.
HOGG: Name me one time that a country has been successfully, through an aerial campaign, bombed into a democratic transition?
JENNINGS: I'm not interested in the transition.
HOGG: Because it hasn't happened.
JENNINGS: I'm interested in whether they have a nuclear weapon.
HOGG: Abby, this is a country that entire history has been defined by foreign outside people and other groups, especially from the west coming in, enforcing regime change. As terrible as the regime is --
JENNINGS: They've been the same regime for 50 years.
HOGG: -- this is not how -- and you know why we got to this place? It's because of a CIA-backed coup in the first place.
DOWNEY: Because of Biden capitulation to the regime.
PHILLIP: So, hold on. We're going to actually talk a little bit more about what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz later in the show. So, let's hold on that.
Next for us, should Democrats welcome a MAGA Republican who has buyer's remorse? One of MAGA's favorite targets says, yes, they should and is praising some of these people.
Plus, new tonight in the war, the president is reportedly sending thousands more troops to the Middle East, even though he's also declared that the war is almost over.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Ilhan Omar is applauding MAGA stars Candace Owens and Marjorie Taylor Greene for breaking with Donald Trump and expressing their buyer's remorse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR: The thing that has been very fascinating, especially about Marjorie and Candace, is that they are not just coming out like the other ones that you'd mentioned where they're saying this action is wrong, right. They're saying, I am done with you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it's like a values bait, like they figured this guy is bad.
OMAR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not like this policy is bad.
OMAR: Right. And I think that we should give them credit for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And it's not just Ilhan Omar opening her arms. Here is the message Pete Buttigieg has for liberals when it comes to MAGA defectors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY, BIDEN ADMIN: When we encounter somebody who has been along for the ride with so many things that we consider to be grotesque abuses, because they are, when they start having doubts, think about how hard that is. I mean, we all know how hard it is to change your mind. Many of us have spouses who remind us how important it is to change your mind and say so when you were wrong about something, and it is one of the hardest things in the world.
So, if somebody is ready to take that step and at least talk to us and maybe do something differently, the message cannot be, I told you so. The message has to be welcome aboard. What else can we do together?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, Ilhan Omar is saying give them credit. Pete Buttigieg is saying, let's hold hands and say, what can we do together? Do you think that's the right move?
HOGG: So, look, you know, I have to address something first, which is that when I was -- you know, I've had a personal interaction with Marjorie Taylor Greene when I was 18 after the shooting at my high school, when I was lobbying members of Congress, my fellow activists in March for Our Lives, Marjorie Taylor Greene, before she was a member, started chasing me around, saying that the shooting at my high school didn't happen, that I was a crisis actor, that I was paid by the government to do all these just horrible things that are completely false.
And at the same time, you know, what those conversations that they're talking about remind me of is my own evolution as an activist in terms of when I was in college.
[22:25:03]
I didn't go to college to just be surrounded by a bunch of liberals necessarily. I know that's hard for you guys to believe, but it's true. That's why I joined the shooting club when I was in college. And as you can imagine, Scott, I was not very popular there. But it's important to talk to people who disagree with us because, ultimately, even though we're Democrats and Republicans, we have to find what little overlap there is that we can move forward on. And, look, we can speculate all we want on her intentions and why she's doing this ultimately, but from my perspective, I'm willing to take that first step and have that conversation with her.
And I would challenge her to this too. If she wants to come on your show and talk to me directly about why she's changed her mind, I'm happy to do that and have that conversation, and I would challenge her to do that and prove to us why she actually is authentic and changing, and that this is not just another opportunistic political opportunity like it was when she chased me after the shooting at my high school. But I'm willing to give her a small chance to have that conversation.
But it's important to note too, this is not just a Marjorie Taylor Greene phenomenon.
PHILLIP: Yes.
HOGG: We're seeing Tucker Carlson. We're seeing people across the board defect increasingly from Trump.
JENNINGS: What do all those people have in in common, by the way?
PHILLIP: Trump --
JENNINGS: What is it they all have in common?
PHILLIP: -- (INAUDIBLE) six months ago and now he doesn't.
JENNINGS: When I hear Ilhan Omar, you know what I hear? How do you do fellow anti-Semites? That's what I hear. This is about Israel. This is about -- there is a thread here and it's so transparently obvious.
And I'll be honest, I think what she did to you is abhorrent. She was a clown then. She's a clown now. This entire thing for her is political. Trump didn't want her or didn't want to back her in a statewide race in Georgia, and she's a conspiracy theorist then, and she's a conspiracy theorist now. I would caution you. I would caution you.
NAVARRO: I don't think Joe Rogan is an anti-Semite. I don't think Andrew Schultz is an anti-Semite. I don't think Erick Erickson is an anti-Semite.
JENNINGS: No.
NAVARRO: I think there's a lot of people around the country whose names we don't know who were very supportive --
JENNINGS: We're talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Just one second.
NAVARRO: What do all of them have in common?
PHILLIP: Even if you say that the only thing that is important about those three individuals in particular is that they're anti-Semitic, what does it say about the president that he was totally fine with them six months ago?
DEMINGS: Well, and they were totally fine with him.
PHILLIP: What does it say?
JENNINGS: Look he attracted a lot of people. And some of the people that he attracted like that have those views, I completely and totally disagree with. And he has been quite clear about his views on these issues and he has led the party away from those views, and that's frankly one of the reasons they're not in it anymore.
PHILLIP: He spoke on the phone with Tucker Carlson six weeks ago.
JENNINGS: What did he say about him last week?
PHILLIP: But why -- I mean, look, you're arguing to me that they are repulsive people who are anti-Semitic. The president of the United States is on the phone with them.
JENNINGS: He disavowed them last week.
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Let's go back to what David said, because I think it's important. I mean, is there a way to work with a Marjorie Taylor Greene or -- I mean, Candace Owens, really, are we -- is that really what Democrats are going to be doing?
DEMINGS: Marjorie Taylor Greene, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson and others are responsible for creating the personality that we are dealing with in the White House today and all of the issues that come along.
I believe the best indicator of future performance is to look at past performance. Marjorie Taylor Greene hasn't had any great Jesus moment. We've been talking a lot about him. Let me bring him to the table. She hasn't had some great Jesus moment. This is all about her. What attention would Marjorie Taylor Greene be getting today if she had not turned so fully against the president? I'm not a believer.
Now, for Ilhan mar or Omar Ilhan -- Ilhan and Omar, thank you, I believe she has the best intentions. But I'm not ready to turn my back and invite Marjorie Taylor Greene to any table that I'm seeing.
NAVARRO: Well, let's remember -- wait, let's remember what the issue was that drove a wedge between Donald Trump and some of his biggest supporters Republican women, like Nancy Mace, like Lauren Boebert, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, and it was the Epstein files. And as much as I disagree with them, some of them are still in Congress, on so many things, I do give them credit for not having bent the knee when he brought Lauren Boebert into the Situation Room and tried to bully her and to not voting for the release of the files.
Now, what I would say to Ilhan Omar, what I would say to Pete Buttigieg, as somebody who broke with my party in 2015, the minute the guy came down the escalator and started talking about Mexicans and immigrants, is that it is hard. Pete Buttigieg is right. When you've been part of a party your entire life, when your circles, your social circles, your family circles, your professional circles are made up in that party, it is very hard to make that break. But I don't think Democrats have to say, come in, the water is warm, because it is a personal decision.
[22:30:05]
It is not one that is led by people being your cheerleaders. You do it because you feel uncomfortable with the guy who's leading the party, not because you have a cheering section telling you to jump into the pool.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: And just quickly, I mean, the polling suggests that there is erosion, despite, you know, whatever, the MAGA number that Trump likes to tout. White, non-college-educated graduates, that's Trump's base, 63 percent supported him in 2025. The February of last year, 49 percent support him now in April of 2026.
CAROLINE DOWNEY, NATIONAL REVIEW COLUMNIST: Yes, and I mean, obviously, the way that this war has been conducted is not universally popular among every single MAGA voter, among every single Republican. But since the topic is adopting the kooks that defected from MAGA, and now are considering the Democratic Party, I just would warn the Democratic Party.
Because to Scott's point, I mean, these are conspiracy theorists who believe that there's a Jewish cabal controlling the country, pulling the puppet strings, and that are going to destroy America. So, if that's the unholy alliance that --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: These kooks were campaigning with Trump and forced Trump all over the country.
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: They were the poster child --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, there's also, I mean, we didn't even mention Megyn Kelly, I mean. But again, the day before the 2024 election, she was in a closing argument campaign rally with President Trump. I mean, the idea that suddenly their kooks and the Republican Party is happy to be rid of them is -- that's brand new. That s new.
(CROSSTALK) NAVARRO: Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene once stormed the country on behalf of Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
VAL DEMINGS (D) FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN, FLORIDA: Yes, they did. They created this.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: All right, everyone, next for us, the breaking news tonight. The President is sending thousands more troops over to the Middle East as we are hearing audio now of the U.S. warning ships against testing the blockade. Plus, J.D. Vance is having a bit of rocky run this week, both abroad and right here at home we'll discuss, as he plans a trip now to Iowa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:36:45]
PHILLIP: Breaking news tonight in the war, Donald Trump is sending thousands more troops to the Middle East according to "The Washington Post." It's an effort to squeeze Iran over the administration's blockade in the Strait of Hormuz that's -- despite the President declaring the war is nearing its end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think it's close to over. I mean, I view it as very close to over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Separately tonight, Trump says that he expects a big fat hug from Chinese President Xi Jinping over what he's doing with the strait. He also said that Xi promised that China is not sending weapons to Iran, something that the White House echoed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Xi assured the President that they are not supplying Iran with weapons throughout this conflict. And that assurance was made to the President.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: The claim comes as the "Financial Times" reports tonight that Iran secretly required a Chinese spy satellite in 2024 that Tehran has used to target U.S. military bases. Former Army Navy -- Former Army JAG Margaret Donovan is here with us at the table.
Margaret, we were talking earlier in the show about kind of what the status quo is here. I mean, we know that there's the blockade. We know that the talks are happening, but there's still not a sort of antebellum status quo back in the Strait of Hormuz. Is that right? MARGARET DONOVAN, FORMER ARMY JAG: Yes, that's exactly right. In
fact, there's a double blockade if you want to think about it that way. You have Iran and you have the U.S. So, I think that we're in kind an interesting place here with the President deploying more troops forward. I think in one sense, it does make sense to have sort of a show of force, right? And I think most people would prefer a show of force over a use of force. It sort of is, it can act as a very good deterrent.
On the other hand, I think that we're taking for granted a little bit the numbers that we're throwing around of troops that are deployed over there. We're talking about another how many thousand getting deployed today. You don't necessarily need ground troops to hold the blockade, right? You need vessels, you need ships, you need possibly defense mechanisms. But the ground troops piece of it is a little concerning for two reasons.
One, like I said, there's sort of this human element that we're missing here, right? Like these are people who left their families who probably don't know when they're coming home because it sounds like the President doesn't even know when they're coming home. We already had thousands of troops out there that weren't home for Easter Sunday with their kids. Like this is a very serious commitment to ask of troops. And so, I don't want people kind of throwing those numbers around and taking them for granted.
But two, the number of troops, ramping them up the way that the President is, that is going to trigger requirements under the War Powers Act. And so, eventually, he's going to hit a 60-day limit where Congress actually can tell him to take troops back and that they're going to cut off funding for the war. So, the more he commits, the more responsibilities he's going to have under the Constitution and the War Powers Act.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, time is obviously one of the biggest factors here. And, you know, yes, we have this blockade, but we're not back to where we were before in the Strait of Hormuz. We're still in a situation where very few ships are getting through, either because we're blocking them or the Iranians are blocking them. And I'm going to play what Scott Bessent said about what his expectations are about gas prices and the effect that this will have.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: And I'm optimistic that during the summer, we will see gas with a three in front of it sooner rather than later. It's bank week here in D.C.
[22:40:02]
So, I've been meeting with a lot of my Middle Eastern counterparts, the finance ministers, and they all say that once the straits are open, they can start pumping again within one week.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: So, he also just followed up and said somewhere between June 20th and September 20th. We're a month and a half into this already. So, we're getting close to the 60 day piece that she's talking about. And that's not actually really that close to September. That's a lot of months that Americans are going to have to deal with these higher prices.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, this blockade I think was a stroke of genius by the President, number one. Number two, a lot of people are coming to the United States to get oil and gas right now, which is terrific for us here at our energy economy.
PHILLIP: It's terrific if you're an oil company.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: It's terrific for our energy economy.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: It doesn't make difference if you're pumping gas at the station.
JENNINGS: And number three -- and number three, apparently, we're going to talk to these people again here. I think we've got them on their knees. They're losing hundreds of millions of dollars a day.
DAVID HOGG, PRESIDENT, LEADERS WE DESERVE: Is that why we're sending thousands of troops right now?
JENNINGS: Yes, because we're letting them know time is up.
HOGG: Scott, come on.
JENNINGS: Time is up.
HOGG: Come on, Scott, we are sending thousands of troops to Iran. That is not with them on their knees.
JENNINGS: They're not going to Iran. They're going to the region.
HOGG: We're sending them to the region. That's, either way, that's still not how we --
JENNINGS: The blockade has their, I mean, they are economically paralyzed because of us.
HOGG: Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. Do you really believe that oil companies are just -- you know what? Now that this crisis is over, we're going to lower prices and ensure that our profits decline significantly. I don't think that --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: You're saying that the oil markets will cease to function as a market because they just decide it's not a market anymore? It's a market now.
HOGG: When they're in a cartel together, it works.
JENNINGS: It's a market now.
HOGG: They have prices being higher.
DOWNEY: These increases will be temporary. And as Scott has pointed out, the Strait of Hormuz is the only leverage that the Iranian regime, or rather the remnants of it, what's surviving, because we decimated most of their leadership, most of their military capacity. They are very much in a vulnerable position.
But that was the last piece of the chessboard -- was the Strait of Hormuz. Trump went in there and called their bluff and said, we're going to put down a blockade so that nothing can go, nothing can transfer oil from any Iranian port.
DEMINGS: The President says the war is almost over, but yet he's sending 10,000 troops to the region. Negotiations failed. We don't know if they will start up again. There's a blockade, yes, and it's effective. But it's not benefiting the United States in terms of access or any of our allies around the world. So, where is the victory there and how can this --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Can I ask you a question? Do you want us to win? Do you want us to defeat these people?
DEMINGS: I always want the U.S. to win.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Because it sounds to me like you are cheering for a bad outcome.
DEMINGS: Could you define what win looks like?
DEMINGS: Can you? Because all you can seem to do is define negativity.
DEMINGS: What win looks like though --
JENNINGS: Here's what win looks like. These fanatics don't get a nuclear weapon. Period. Full stop. That's a win.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINGS: Because again, American people --
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINGS: American people deserve to know why our troops are there. What is it exactly that we're fighting for? If it's to open up the straits, the straits were open before the war. (CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: We're going to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon. It has nothing to do the strait. It's a nuclear weapon.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINGS: But there was no imminent threat.
JENNINGS: Sure there was.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Val, they have missiles that can reach most of Europe. Do you not consider that to be an imminent threat?
DEMINGS: Scott, there was no imminent threat to the United States.
JENNINGS: We don't have bases and troops in Europe and all over the region. You seem to be ill-informed about who's at war with here.
PHILLIP: Let me let Margaret have a word.
DONOVAN: Look, all I'm going to say is that we have, yes, it's an effective blockade, but it hasn't really been in place for that long. So, it's fair to say, great, the first four days, three days of it, wonderful. But we have to see this long term. I also want to say that, you know, we should never sort of underestimate our adversary here and the pain that they could still inflict.
And one thing that I think we should take stock of is the rapidly depleting stockpiles of air defense systems of the Gulf states. So, the Gulf states have access to PAC-3s -- that's a Patriot missile air defense system, basically something fired in order to deter the significant air threat. Rockets, drones, other projectiles that Iran can still wield, even if they're degraded, they still have that capability.
The Gulf states have spent somewhere around 2000 Pac-3s since the start of the war of February 28th, which may not sound like a big number, however the annual production globally is 600. So there are, I think, real vulnerabilities in the region with people, with countries that we should be allied with.
And I think our own stockpile, for example, Tomahawk missiles are becoming depleted. And so, the ceasefire is good. We should sit and take stock of where we are, but there is a serious long-term consequence in terms of defense production that I think we can't discount when we look at sort of the larger second and third order effects of this really discretionary war.
PHILLIP: All right, we'll leave it there. Margaret, thank you very much for joining us. Coming up, a busy couple of weeks for J.D. Vance, but that hasn't always been easy for him. We'll discuss what he's been up to. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:41]
PHILLIP: It's safe to say it has been a tough week for J.D. Vance. Vance had two high profile opportunities to prove himself in the last few days and both fell flat. In a last minute visit to Hungary last Tuesday, Vance stumped for Viktor Orban, leading to this awkward moment when he tried to get President Trump on the phone.
[22:50:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: All right.
UNKNOWN (on the phone): I'm sorry. The person you are trying to reach has a voice mailbox that has not been set up yet.
VANCE: Okay, try one more time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: For the first time in 16 years, Orban went on to lose that election and deliver his opposition, a super majority. Now, as for Iran, after just 21 hours of negotiation, Vance returned to the U.S. with no major breakthrough. And just yesterday, Vance was repeatedly heckled over the war in Gaza at a Turning Point USA event.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: Random dude who's shouting, can I finish my point? Hey, random dude screaming, I told you I'd respond to your point. And by the way, not only was our administration like the administration that solved the problem, but the President -- the President -- excuse me, Sir. Right now, right now, you see more humanitarian aid coming into Gaza than it has any time in the past five years because we have taken that situation seriously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Vance is set to be dispatched to Iowa later this month to help Republicans in competitive midterm races there. Some people have suggested that he's being given some tough, slash, bad assignments as vice presidents often are.
DOWNEY: Yes, well, so I think it's fair to say that we all know that he was a foreign policy restrictionist or rather that he wants us to have more restraint on the international stage. And then he was tasked with somewhat negotiating the peace talks that crumbled. But it wasn't because of him that they crumbled. It was because we're dealing with the remnants of the Iranian regime, which is fundamentally untrustworthy.
And since he was given that task, J.D. Vance has done everything he was supposed to do. And he knows now that we have to complete the job. The specter of a nuclear Iran is still real. We cannot let it happen. And J.D. Vance has not neglected that responsibility whatsoever. Do I agree that the political calculus for him looks uncertain?
Yes, because we don't know how this is going to shake out ultimately. Although I have faith that it'll be temporary and that ultimately Trump will succeed in this. But yes, Vance is dealing with a faction that really did not want any foreign policy intervention at all.
PHILLIP: And he himself, I mean, more to the point, I mean, Vance is the person, according to "The New York Times," who "thought a regime change war with Iran would be a disaster." The Times reports, "His preference was for no strikes at all and when it seemed certain that the President was set on a large scale campaign, Vance argued that he should do so with overwhelming force." He "warned Trump that a war against Iran would cause regional chaos and untold casualties." And he also warned Trump that it would "break apart his political coalition."
So, look, I mean, he's there now to clean up the mess. But also, if Vance is the successor potentially to President Trump, he's not being given any easy wins, any, you know, quick home runs. He's been given, frankly, almost near impossible tasks.
JENNINGS: Yes, look, the President obviously has a lot of confidence in him by sending him into extremely complex situations. I personally would not have gone to Hungary. I mean, I wouldn't have gotten involved in another country's presidential election that would have been my advice. But ongoing to negotiate with Iran, I mean that is a high profile assignment and it may yet pay off.
And then, regarding his campaigning in the midterms, I would expect to see both him and President Trump out there campaigning for our candidates across the country. And so I, look, I think when he sends J.D. Vance to do things, even if they're hard, to me, it shows a lot of confidence in J.D. Vance.
PHILLIP: Wouldn't you think that you would send him to negotiate with Iran when they knew that they were going to get a deal as opposed to at the beginning when it was actually fairly unlikely that they would reach a grand bargain?
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Where's Marco Rubio, how would you --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: He's already negotiating peace between Israel and Lebanon, and I assume taking care of --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: -- not think consequential matters.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, I guess, you know, that's -- the thing about sending him to Iran is that you typically, you would send a really high- ranking official when you want to shake hands and say the deal is done.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: But shake hands with who?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Not to say, oh, we can't get it done. I mean, not to mention that, I mean, earlier today there was an Iran expert who made the point that Vance was meeting with somebody who actually really doesn't have that much political power in Iran. So, the power dynamic was mismatched. I mean, he is being led into these things in ways that are not doing him many favors.
HOGG: That's just tradition throughout American presidencies apparently. But the fundamental thing that I think we need to talk about here when it -- especially when it comes to young people is the fact that we're seeing -- we see all the shifts back and forth of the polls of, you know, this time last year was talking about how Democrats have lost young men over and over and over again. We've since seen that shift back and it's because young men are not fundamentally conservative.
[22:55:00]
They're not fundamentally liberal, either. Their fundamentally against the system that they feel like they've been sold out by along with young women, too. And they're looking for a political party that is going to offer them answers to their daily problems that are not going to be solved by going after Iran. They're going to be solved by making sure that they can afford to go to college, that they can afford to go to a trade school, that they can get a good job and support their family, and focus on that instead of going and getting involved in elections with Hungary, intervening --
(CROSSTALK)
DOWNEY: But all the Democratic Party offers those "band-aids" and "handouts."
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much for being here. Next for us, a supreme apology from one justice to another.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:00:14]
PHILLIP: Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor is apologizing to her fellow Justice Brett Kavanaugh after criticizing him last week over a September opinion backing roving immigration raids in California. She said he really doesn't know anyone who works by the hour, comment that she now calls hurtful and inappropriate. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live"
starts right now.
